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Stallions to Stud 2019

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    Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 2:42pm
There's been a bit of talk elsewhere about The Autumn Son's prospects as a stallion, however there's four or five others of some note who'll probably be heading to the breeding barn later this year.

Anyone care to provide comment on TAS, along with the likes of Trapeze Artist, Written By, Pierata etc? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 4:38pm
Pierata is interesting - obviously being a fast son of Pierro he will be quite popular - however he really needs a G1 to be NSW worthy imo, I would suggest the QLD winter is his best chance.

Trapeze Artist to me will be the best son of Snitzel at stud, I liked Russian Revolution but feel like Trapeze Artist has a real x-factor.

TAS will be great - but extremely expensive, 66k is my guess.

Written By.. not sure they really should have sold him after his Diamond win, he'll find an alright home still but his value has really plummeted since then. 

I'm assuming Brave Smash is also going to stud this year? I quite like the horse as a race horse, however I'd be a bit gun shy as a stallion - there are a fair few Japanese stallions in Australia now and if they flop you could be left with yearlings that aren't worth much through association. 

Kementari I like as a stallion - I think he didn't train on at all after his 3yo season but think he was a good horse - standing at 33 I think if you get in at 15-20 it's an ok deal.

I think this could be an absolutely stellar crop of First Season Sires. The other benefit they have is I think they'll all get massive numbers - the amount of stallions that got 200+ last season due to the ageing of our 'best' stallions was insane, it shows that there is a need for more commercial grade stallions at stud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 6:00am
A good summary above.

I’ll guess $45k plus GST for the Autumn Sun

In regard to Kementari he ran some good races as a 4 yr old and placed in a couple of Group 1’s but wasn’t able to win one. So I’m not sure that he didn’t train on and instead wonder whether he just came up against a better class of horse when in open age where he wasn’t good enough to be able to dominate?

Having said that I do like Kementari and I’m considering sending a mare of ours to him because he’s such a good pedigree match . However, I’m not sure that the $33k is good value considering his race record at retirement, or that I will be able to get it significantly reduced with him being at Darley and a first year stallion. I don’t like my chances of getting in at 15-20.

Are Pierata and Kementari unlikely to get 2yr old types?

I can’t knock any of the potential stallions noted above and think all have good prospects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 11:19am
What you’re saying about Kementari may be true - I’m just thinking of how he was clearly better than Pierata as an Autumn three year old and is pretty clearly worse now, however Pierata May have just improved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 11:35am
List of G1 winning C&E for 17/18 and 18/19 to date:

Snitzel

Trapeze Artist

Russian Revolution

Redoute's Choice

The Autumn Sun

High Chaparral (IRE)

Ace High

Rekindling

Lonhro

Kementari

Impending

Deep Impact (JPN)

Tosen Stardom

O'Reilly (NZ)

Grunt

Tosen Phantom (JPN)

Brave Smash

Flying Spur

Boom Time

Fastnet Rock

Merchant Navy

So You Think (NZ)

Dargento

Stratum

Land Of Plenty

Pierro

Levendi

Written Tycoon

Written By

Domesday

Extra Brut

Dubawi (IRE)

Benbatl

I Am Invincible

Hellbent

Not A Single Doubt

Mighty Boss

Iffraaj (GB)

Jungle Cat

Azamour (IRE)

Best Of Days

Kodiac (GB)

Best Solution


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 11:45am
Censored CensoredCensored Censored

10-15min I was stuffing around with the formatting on that...

Only a couple of multiple winners on the list, and only Trapeze Artist has won more than one at open age. However, most of them have been beaten about by the great mare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:39pm
The plan for Brave Smash was to race in Dubai/UK then return here for stud.
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:43pm
I think you could be dreaming with price for The Autumn Sun.  He's won five G1's - more than any of the above and equal to Pierro.  Arrowfield know that there has never been a colt retire after nine runs with that many G1's.  Never in the history of Australian racing.  It has been done once before by a mare.  Five G1's in first nine starts.  Anyone know who I'm talking about.

  I thought maybe Poseidon could of been there but he had six runs as a two year old without a race of merit.  The closest other would be undefeated Grand Flaneur with the AJC Derby as his second start and win.  Two starts later the win in the VRC Derby and then the Melbourne Cup with 6 stone 10 pounds.  You could argue his AJC Mares Produce and VRC Mares Produce stakes would of been G1 status back in their day.  They only ran for about twenty years each and the list of winners include most of the colts who made stallions back in their day.

I love Trapeze Artist with his four G1's more than any of the others and racing into his forth year he's not such an immature horse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:44pm
Lyre didn't hurt Impending's chances at stud either.  And Pierro gives the indication that Lonhro can get sire sons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 1:04pm
Trapeze Artist imo will let down into a magnificent specimen , his colts could be a little top heavy though, but he's got that "something".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:01pm
Come on folks which mare one five of her first 9 starts to match The Autumn Sun.  I thought someone would of replied by now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Come on folks which mare one five of her first 9 starts to match The Autumn Sun.  I thought someone would of replied by now.


Maybe Wakeful furious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:15pm
Storm Queen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:43pm
Sunline?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

 
Maybe Wakeful furious.

Sounds right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 3:48pm
Yes Wakeful is the only one.  They do have a point but I wish he could race on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 3:49pm
I'm sure your not old enough to have seen Wakeful Carioca.  I wish I could of seen her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 3:49pm
Only then I would of been to old to see Winx.  My eyes are bad enough at my age!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 4:52pm
Ace High, Levendi & Extra Brut should get every chance to improve our 2000m+ stocks - as will Best Of Days if they can keep him here. 

That said, none of those are likely to be winning any Qld 900m first season sires titles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

I think you could be dreaming with price for The Autumn Sun.  He's won five G1's - more than any of the above and equal to Pierro.  Arrowfield know that there has never been a colt retire after nine runs with that many G1's.


Whilst acknowledging that TAS has been a great racehorse and is an outstanding stallion prospect, another way to look at his potential stallion fee is:
*he seems to have largely been a miler rather than a precocious sprinter
* he won none of the big 2yr old sprint races (unlike Pierro) - I don’t think the JJ Atkins qualifies as a real quality 2yr old race.
* he was unproven in open age or WFA races
* if compared to the $25k that Arrowfield priced Dundeel for his initial fee then anything double that amount for TAS seems over the top.

However, alternatively if compared to the $33k announced for Kementari the other day then my $45k plus guess for TAS appears light and indicates I’m dreamimg.😀😀
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

I'm sure your not old enough to have seen Wakeful Carioca.  I wish I could of seen her.

Missed her by " thaaat much" lol,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

What you’re saying about Kementari may be true - I’m just thinking of how he was clearly better than Pierata as an Autumn three year old and is pretty clearly worse now, however Pierata May have just improved.


Good point. I hadn’t really considered the form/ability swap between Kementari/ Pierata as a comparison. Perhaps loss he did go backwards and that might be the correct reason Kementari didn’t add to his Group 1 or win tally as a 4 yr old ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 5:27pm
Kementari didn't win during the Spring.  Pierata did win.

There's two basic differences imo.

1.  Kementari didn't really come up as a 4yo imo, despite those early Spring placings and a marginal result later on in the Manikato before a later shocker.  Similar in the Autumn, fair first up then an ordinary.  Hasn't won for 12 months.

2. Pierata in fact won twice in the Spring at Gp 2 and 3 level before running 2nd in the same race in which Kementari ran a shocker.  Pierata's winning 1200m Gp success was run faster, if memory serves, than Redzel's Everest victory.  And has franked his form this Autumn.

Imo opinion Pierata is a far more genuine, talented performer than Kementari ever was at 4.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 1:16am
Pierata was a late foal (November 16th) and has improved well as he's gotten older.  His last two runs were his first as a by-his-actual-birthday 4yo.  Based on that, and on his breeding, I would not expect his foals to be early.

TAS ran well as a 2yo and despite that, I wouldn't be surprised if his foals also took longer to mature.  Dam line is Galileo --> Lear Fan --> Darshaan --> a son of Ribot. The other big-name stallion in his family, Azamour, was not early and his best similarly did better from late 3 onwards, including some top-class hurdlers.

Ace High is interesting.  Good solid racehorse, diverse enough breeding on his dam's side to include lots of different mare lines.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2019 at 7:47am
Anyone heard anything about Ace High? Reckon they’ll be revisiting his racing career after yesterday. Lovey pedigree and a tough on speed stayer who deserves a chance IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 12:18pm
Brave Smash retired and off to Aquis Hunter. $22K.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 1:03pm
Ace High has never handled a wet track.  So he runs hopeless if they are around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 1:41pm
Grunt $13,750 Yulong Vic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Campaspe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 5:25pm
Ducimus (Snitzel) to Rivercrest Park Stud, WA, for $2,750.  Free service to any Black-type winner or placegetter, or the dam thereof, in the first two seasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 7:48am
Justify coming to Coolmore Australia - fee private. Amazing to think that there are two triple crown winners on the same roster in Australia.
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