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Stallions that came from obscurity to prominence

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Majestic View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 6:37pm
We know the expression “from an ugly duckling came a beautiful swan”. Let’s try to relate this to stallions who started cheap and undersupported to become let’s say genetic freaks. I can personally name up to 5 who superachieved. Let’s hear your names.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 6:55pm
Well Majestic, we'd probably have to dig deep back into pre-history (about when you and I were but youngsters) to find your 5 answers, together with others that members bring to mind.  

Off the top of my increasingly forgetful mind perhaps two or three NH sires that stood in NZ. Sir T way ahead of the pack along with the regally bred but awfully conformed and thus unraced Noble Bijou.

But closer to today I Am Invincible would have to be right up there.

But over to others.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 7:14pm
He was well before my time so I don't know if he "started cheap and undersupported" but would Rego qualify?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 7:34pm
GA, Rego stood his whole career at Mr Powell’s Brooklyn Lodge Stud. His first major winner was Wiggle as a 2yo in 1958-59 season, at which age she won the Stradbroke Hcp in Qld, I believe the only 2yo to do so. He constantly threw SW’s from then until his best Baguette in the early 70’s. Will try to look up early stud fee and later increases as success continued.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 7:49pm
Sir Tristram
Adraan
Rory's Jester?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 8:29pm
Would Sunset Hue qualify? had the best roman nose you've seen , walked like a giraffe,
( well very gangly I'm being kind) his only claim to fame I can recall was winning the Fernhill Hcp. 1 mile for 2 y/o, although he was by the magical Star Kingdom he went to Woodie Wonder a Newtown Wonder mare and a Twin and low and behold Gunsynd?
The Newtown Wonders were flat getting 6 furl. freakish imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 7:32am
From past postings, people will understand that Better Boy is/was my favourite stallion and he did indeed come from obscurity to prominence. His first crop of, I think, fourteen foals contained 2 classic winners in Craftsman and Better Lad. Things just rolled on from there.
Concerning Sunset Hue, he may have started in obscurity, but except for Gunsynd and a couple of minor SWs in Qld I really doubt he became an influential stallion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VSP. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 7:42am
Written Tycoon
I am Invincible
Sir Tristram
Twig Moss
Encosta de Lago
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 9:11am
Carioca, I recall when the Golden Slipper was first muted, it was suggested that it would be a benefit race for Newtown Wonder, but I think he only managed one or two placegetters. They were often described at the time to “come quick, go quick and stop quick”
VSP, Your first three are on my list, with Better Boy, that makes four. The fifth I will describe as a reasonable Overseas stayer who arrived in NZ to a family farm and became one of Aust/NZ’s greatest staying sires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 9:36am
I guess, like the word champion, we need to define obscure ?

Any horse that wins a group 1 race is not really coming from obscurity are they ?

Twig Moss, Noble Bijou and Sir Tristram came form an era when pretty poor quality overseas form or no form at all, was quite fashionable. Confused

Mr Prospector and Danzig, They would qualify wouldn't they ?

Air de France had a superb pedigree and came along just as the shuttle service took off ( no pun intended ) He did quite well from obscurity.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 10:18am
Danzig and his son War Front.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 10:50am
djebel and T, if you want to include OS sires then the two mentioned would certainly qualify. Another OS stallion I would possibly include would be Sunday Silence, from being rejected by major and minor stud farms in USA, he was sold off to Japan where he stood at the same farm as another stallion who started his stud career as an obscure stallion and that stallion was Northern Taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 10:57am
Ahonoora ?

spelling.....




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 12:33pm
Le Filou?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 12:59pm
Noble Bijou & Mellay - what a magical nick Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Noble Bijou & Mellay - what a magical nick Clap

And White Robe Lodge is still perpetuating this magical nick. Their broodmare band mainly comprises of mare with Noble Bijou & Mellay in their pedigree. Then successfully married this with Yamanin Vital & recently Raise The Flag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 5:40pm
Absolutely, though in truth the current stallions have a bit to achieve just yet.

A venerated member here a while back, known variously as Don or Nod, patronized this stud with fine results. And his knowledge of genetics was legend. He (of Kiwi fruit fame) is almost certainly no longer with us which represents a huge loss to NZ breeding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 5:51pm
Old Spice was a good stallion in WA (passed away in 2003). He came from nowhere and sired some good horses. Some of his progeny ran in the eastern states as well with success.

Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 6:59am
GA, I reread my clue and two stallions would fit that bill. Yes Le Filou but also Summertime, both amazing sources of stamina when NZ was at its prime as a source of stamina
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 7:16am
Old Spice was one of my favourites as he through tough horses who could win a Derby, Oaks, or WFA events in the East when they sent them over.  It must of been Grey Sovereign and Gaul helping out the distance in his stock although Kaoru Star gives alot of toughness to a pedigree.  They liked a fight.

Better Boy also would be on my list.  Bought out and runs in the Caulfield Cup only to fall?  He did win the Hotham H among 8 wins but served very small books and still alive in pedigrees today. 

 That's what I call achieving.  You can be a great sire but for some reason disappear totally from pedigrees while some good stallions - not seen to be in the same class - live on because of a great decendant or two or three etc.  Ie Carbine has Nearco (among plenty of others)  Trenton Hyperion (as one of many), Darebin (Commando and Native Dancer pretty well saw him through to today), Bernborough (Winx) sorry I'm getting off topic.

Yes I am Invincible would have to qualify.  But don't forget Snitzel and Encosta de Lago might of won G1's but they weren't lauded to begin with.  Even Danehill only had one lowly G1 compared with many who have decended on our shores in the last 20 odd years.

Danzig would qualify as a winner of three minor races to the tail male decendant of more than half of Australia's black type horses (well if not quite right certainly close to it)

Wilkes also qualifies.  He was a great sire with two wins from three starts who is still present in plenty of pedigrees thanks to Vain he best son.

Back in the day John O'Gaunt didn't qualify as a great racehorse although he got 2nd in both the 2000 Guineas and the Derby.  His pedigree was high class (being from the Musket family) so given a chance at stud he failed again.  But as sire of Sywnford his male line went on for generations and he appears in the likes of Midstream, Alcimedes, Agricola, Oncidium and Star Kingdom among others who achieved greatness in Australasia.

Umatilla did alright from a $5K first season sire fee.

Likewise Brave Warrior looked to be anything as a sire before an early death.  He started at only $5,500.

General Nediym was a very good horse who wasn't lauded and changed stud plenty of times but keeps coming up in stakes pedigrees.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 8:28am

Yep Old Spice was tough and this carried through to his offspring. The 2018 MacKinnon Stakes winner Trap For Fools - his dam is Old Money who was a terrific 3 yr old filly and won the WA Derby, WA Oaks and Cox Stakes (when that race used to be 2400m). The sire of Old Money is.....Old Spice

Edited by Gay3 - 24 Dec 2019 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VSP. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 11:31am
Not A Single Doubt is another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 11:51am
I wonder if Khorassan the sire of the wonderful Tulloch would have been classed as obscure before That horse came along , does anybody know of his record as a sire at Trelawney Stud at Cambridge.?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 12:39pm
You beat me to it, VSP.  I thpught exactly the same.  When I saw him the first year at stud I thought that tiny little show pony will  have his work cut out.  Now look at what he has achieved ! 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 6:37pm
While I doubt Nod still frequents this site, I do not think his demise extends beyond here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 7:40pm
Nassipour and Zamazaan are a couple that also came to mind
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2019 at 2:17pm
Better Boy would top my list too but I would add Whiskey Road, the sire of Strawberry Road, Just a Dash from his early crops from mares of very moderate credentials.

While fully recognising the claims of others such as Sir Tristram, Noble Bijou, Khorassan, Wilkes etc they did have the benefit of established broodmare bands from their respective studs.

The 1926 Melbourne Cup winner Spearfelt struggled to find a place at stud before moving to Qld & then became Champion Sire, when competing against the great Qld stamina influence The Buzzard.
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