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Stallion fees 2016?

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Lordy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$11k Charge Forward is one 'for the people'.

Sales figures, last 3 years courtesy of Breednet:

Year: Sold/Avg/Mdn

2016: 23 / $97,956 / $80,000
2015: 25 / $69,680 / $60,000
2014: 33 / $76,181 / $57,500
Charge Forward's stats are very good on all fronts for an $11k stallion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$11k Charge Forward is one 'for the people'.

Sales figures, last 3 years courtesy of Breednet:

Year: Sold/Avg/Mdn

2016: 23 / $97,956 / $80,000
2015: 25 / $69,680 / $60,000
2014: 33 / $76,181 / $57,500
Charge Forward's stats are very good on all fronts for an $11k stallion

While that may be the case, he hasn't been a Top 50 Australian sire since 2013 (Shaft almost beating him this season), and has been triple that price during his career.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Hazyview Hazyview wrote:

Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$71,500 for NASD, on the other hand... not so much.

Sales below off fees of $27,500 and $33k. His 2016 foal crop will take his total foal count past 1,000.

2016: 42 / $175,476 / $137,500
2015: 46 / $89,076 / $60,000
2014: 88 / $102,977 / $86,250

So in 2016;

Charge Forward averaged +$86,000 over stud fee
Not A Single Doubt averaged +$142,000 over stud fee

Based on this year's average;

Not a Single Doubt averages +$103,500

You can't eat value.

The knocking of unproven horses is one thing, but knocking proven, commercial horses here is pretty crazy.
Take it easy Cochise, I'm merely suggesting that $30k of the seller's margin is going back to the Stud. Still an excellent result, if this year's median holds up.... Interesting that 134 coverings in 2013 resulted in just 77 foals. That's not to suggest that he's got issues, only that if you wanted to buy a NASD in 2016, there were less around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

$11k Charge Forward is one 'for the people'.

Sales figures, last 3 years courtesy of Breednet:

Year: Sold/Avg/Mdn

2016: 23 / $97,956 / $80,000
2015: 25 / $69,680 / $60,000
2014: 33 / $76,181 / $57,500
Charge Forward's stats are very good on all fronts for an $11k stallion
While that may be the case, he hasn't been a Top 50 Australian sire since 2013 (Shaft almost beating him this season), and has been triple that price during his career.
True, but only 600-odd foals from 953 coverings to date. Plenty of lead left in the pencil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 2:47pm

I believe he also does the cover in the paddock?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2016 at 2:35am
Duporth relocated to Jinderra Park.  
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 11:59am
Snitzel is $110, 000 (2016 avge: $280, 596)
Smart Missile is $22,000 (2016 avge: $117, 987)

Does that make Smart Missile well priced?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 12:46pm
Smart Missile looked well priced but not at the moment. He currently has one non metro winner from 25 runners. Now that can change in an instant but would seriously need too.
 
He covered enormous books of well credentialed mares and is presently underperforming. Whilst it would be folly to write him off so early there are much better options for less money as it sits right now.
eg Al Maher, Magnus, Artie Schiller amongst a few.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by niki niki wrote:

Snitzel is $110, 000 (2016 avge: $280, 596)
Smart Missile is $22,000 (2016 avge: $117, 987)

Does that make Smart Missile well priced?

Depends. Pretty good value in 2013. As for this year I'll let you know in 2019 when the 2016 services see the sales.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nobody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 8:37am

Kelvinside, NSW
EXCEED AND EXCEL Danehill – Patrona $110,000 inc GST
MEDAGLIA D’ORO El Prado – Cappucino Bay $110,000 inc GST
LONHRO Octagonal – Shadea $88,000 inc GST
TEOFILO Galileo – Speirbhean $44,000 inc GST
SHOOTING TO WIN Northern Meteor – Listen Here $38,500 inc GST
SEPOY Elusive Quality – Watchful $33,000 inc GST
EXOSPHERE Lonhro – Altitude $27,500 inc GST
HALLOWED CROWN Street Sense – Crowned Glory $27,500 inc GST
DAWN APPROACH New Approach – Hymn Of The Dawn$22,000 inc GST
EPAULETTE Commands – Accessories $22,000 inc GST
DENMAN Lonhro – Peach $11,000 inc GST
POET’S VOICE Dubawi – Bright Tiara $11,000 inc GST
SIDESTEP Exceed And Excel – Dextrous $11,000 inc GST
ALBRECHT Redoute’s Choice – O’Giselle $8,800 inc GST

Northwood Park, VIC

BRAZEN BEAU I Am Invincible – Sansadee $44,000 inc GST
STREET BOSS Street Cry – Blushing Ogygian $27,500 inc GST
NIGHT OF THUNDER Dubawi – Forest Storm $16,500 inc GST
HELMET Exceed And Excel – Accessories $16,500 inc GST
RESET Zabeel – Assertive Lass $16,500 inc GST
KUROSHIO Exceed And Excel – Arctic Drift $8,800 inc GST
SKILLED Commands – Dextrous $6,600 inc GST Terms



Mapperley Stud, NZ
CONTRIBUTER High Chaparral – Serisia NZ $15,000 plus GST (15%) 
COMPLACENT Authorized – Insouciance NZ $5,000 plus GST (15%)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 10:24am
Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Darley have a few dropping in price I believe, and not only the obvious ones.

Which stallions were you referring to rem ? The only surprise for me is Street Boss and Teofilo (way over priced ) but I can't see any value at all in the roster . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Darley have a few dropping in price I believe, and not only the obvious ones.


Which stallions were you referring to rem ? The only surprise for me is Street Boss and Teofilo (way over priced ) but I can't see any value at all in the roster . 

Sepoy price cut in half. This after setting the sales ring ablaze last year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Nobody Nobody wrote:


Kelvinside, NSW
EXCEED AND EXCEL Danehill – Patrona $110,000 inc GST
MEDAGLIA D’ORO El Prado – Cappucino Bay $110,000 inc GST
LONHRO Octagonal – Shadea $88,000 inc GST
TEOFILO Galileo – Speirbhean $44,000 inc GST
SHOOTING TO WIN Northern Meteor – Listen Here $38,500 inc GST
SEPOY Elusive Quality – Watchful $33,000 inc GST
EXOSPHERE Lonhro – Altitude $27,500 inc GST
HALLOWED CROWN Street Sense – Crowned Glory $27,500 inc GST
DAWN APPROACH New Approach – Hymn Of The Dawn$22,000 inc GST
EPAULETTE Commands – Accessories $22,000 inc GST
DENMAN Lonhro – Peach $11,000 inc GST
POET’S VOICE Dubawi – Bright Tiara $11,000 inc GST
SIDESTEP Exceed And Excel – Dextrous $11,000 inc GST
ALBRECHT Redoute’s Choice – O’Giselle $8,800 inc GST

Northwood Park, VIC

BRAZEN BEAU I Am Invincible – Sansadee $44,000 inc GST
STREET BOSS Street Cry – Blushing Ogygian $27,500 inc GST
NIGHT OF THUNDER Dubawi – Forest Storm $16,500 inc GST
HELMET Exceed And Excel – Accessories $16,500 inc GST
RESET Zabeel – Assertive Lass $16,500 inc GST
KUROSHIO Exceed And Excel – Arctic Drift $8,800 inc GST
SKILLED Commands – Dextrous $6,600 inc GST Terms



Night of Thunder looks interesting.

Do you know where Carltin House has gone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 11:19am
Absolutely nothing to see here. I'm still smarting that they didn't have more faith in Sweynesse to cater for the smaller breeder - he would have been a nice addition to the Kelvinside roster at his NZ fee of $6,000 (exchange rate differences aside). But with Benfica and Carlton House gone and Skilled in Victoria, there's only a third season Albrecht below 10K.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Darley have a few dropping in price I believe, and not only the obvious ones.


Which stallions were you referring to rem ? The only surprise for me is Street Boss and Teofilo (way over priced ) but I can't see any value at all in the roster . 

Sepoy price cut in half. This after setting the sales ring ablaze last year.

I thought both Sepoy and Helmet (also halved )were the obvious ones . 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 12:00pm
I think Helmet has gone up overseas.  Three runners for three winners.  I wonder if they'll ever get going here.  It is really weird how different the results can be South and North.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 12:33pm
I was going to use Street Boss this year and just had a look at his sale stats on Stallions 

125 offered     97 sold   total value $3,431,250    average  $35,373.71 

if you take into account the unsold ones which I think you should ,the average becomes $27,450 

Service fee $27,500 . It makes him an uncommercial option for most breeders . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 12:42pm
And considering he can struggle to stop your mare. Way overs. Helmet is a good gamble at that price but still a gamble. I agree with most and see no commercial value on the roster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 12:48pm
Possibly bearing Helmet in mind, would appreciate thoughts on Epaulette at an advertised $22k?

Pluses and minuses; is he temperamentally like his 3/4 etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

I was going to use Street Boss this year and just had a look at his sale stats on Stallions 

125 offered     97 sold   total value $3,431,250    average  $35,373.71 

if you take into account the unsold ones which I think you should ,the average becomes $27,450 

Service fee $27,500 . It makes him an uncommercial option for most breeders . 

Will be challenged to compete against some of the other commercial stallions and his biggest challenge is getting it done.

Despite that - this boy has better stats than Snitzel this season (SW/R) . He will also improve commercially in the ring & the mare book will improve considerably with Darley going to support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Possibly bearing Helmet in mind, would appreciate thoughts on Epaulette at an advertised $22k?

Pluses and minuses; is he temperamentally like his 3/4 etc.

Dont mind Epa. Good first mare book & I expect he will do ok first season around.

Also has good numbers to be right up there for 1st season honours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by whitt0 whitt0 wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

I was going to use Street Boss this year and just had a look at his sale stats on Stallions 

125 offered     97 sold   total value $3,431,250    average  $35,373.71 

if you take into account the unsold ones which I think you should ,the average becomes $27,450 

Service fee $27,500 . It makes him an uncommercial option for most breeders . 

Will be challenged to compete against some of the other commercial stallions and his biggest challenge is getting it done.

Despite that - this boy has better stats than Snitzel this season (SW/R) . He will also improve commercially in the ring & the mare book will improve considerably with Darley going to support.
Whitto
one of the stats i find useful to look at over sw/r is the Apex ratings . Snitzel has 21.5% of his starters in the top 8% of prizemoney earners . i.e. from 969 starters , 209 of those fall into the top 8% range of prizemoney earners . Street Boss isn't is the top 80 and snitzel is 3rd on both A rating and ABC rating charts . reference Bluebloods mag . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Darley have a few dropping in price I believe, and not only the obvious ones.


Which stallions were you referring to rem ? The only surprise for me is Street Boss and Teofilo (way over priced ) but I can't see any value at all in the roster . 

Sepoy price cut in half. This after setting the sales ring ablaze last year.

I thought both Sepoy and Helmet (also halved )were the obvious ones . 
 

They are not engendering confidence in their product if they overprice them in the first place.  And Darley are not the only ones playing those games. 

The business model sucks.  How do you think the car manufacturers for example would go if they priced their new SUV at 100k and then dropped to 50k three years later when they realised they couldn't compete with the market leaders due to "imperfections"?  How many repeat customers are they going to get next time?

They appear to be doing everything they can to discourage the small breeder especially the ones that have a go in the second and third seasons due to discounting and haggling which won't happen in the first year.

It is such a blatantly obvious grab for as much cash as they can considering most stallions won't be champions and settle in to their level of ability and fee structure within the first few years.  Or they are simply banished and the breeders are left holding the babies.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 4:55pm
What I don't get is, everybody wants a stallion to start at a lower price until they prove themselves, and when they do prove themselves and the price goes up, they all whinge.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 4:59pm
Hmmm Domesday missing too....
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 5:15pm

 
[/QUOTE]

They are not engendering confidence in their product if they overprice them in the first place.  And Darley are not the only ones playing those games. 

The business model sucks.  How do you think the car manufacturers for example would go if they priced their new SUV at 100k and then dropped to 50k three years later when they realised they couldn't compete with the market leaders due to "imperfections"?  How many repeat customers are they going to get next time?

They appear to be doing everything they can to discourage the small breeder especially the ones that have a go in the second and third seasons due to discounting and haggling which won't happen in the first year.

It is such a blatantly obvious grab for as much cash as they can considering most stallions won't be champions and settle in to their level of ability and fee structure within the first few years.  Or they are simply banished and the breeders are left holding the babies.






[/QUOTE]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and it was a key reason I had hoped that Darley would replicate their Breeders Club model that they launched successfully in Europe over here. That way, they guarantee a pipeline of support for a stallion that is going to need the numbers to make it and give the breeders that give the support upside potential. But instead, at least at the middle to bottom end, supporting their stallions in their first couple of years is nigh on suicide, either through paying overs in the first couple of years or seeing the stallion disappear in the latter couple of years. Benfica, as an example, has been shunted based on half a two year old season - Carlton House none at all?!?

I think the dream for the smaller breeder is an I Am Invincible, where consistent support translated into some serious windfall gains at the sales. Given the number of stallions that fail, it probably isn't too much to ask that the studs that stand stallions accessible for the smaller breeder don't rip the rug out from under their feet too early.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

What I don't get is, everybody wants a stallion to start at a lower price until they prove themselves, and when they do prove themselves and the price goes up, they all whinge.   

Problem is that when they do go up, they are not going up incrementally. 

They usually go up based on one or two decent horses that may or may not have something to do with the stallion ie have a close look at the mare and the mating.

Quite frankly, small breeders would be better off going to proven stallions.  Let the big boys play the lottery and see if their stallions are any good.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by whitt0 whitt0 wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

I was going to use Street Boss this year and just had a look at his sale stats on Stallions 

125 offered     97 sold   total value $3,431,250    average  $35,373.71 

if you take into account the unsold ones which I think you should ,the average becomes $27,450 

Service fee $27,500 . It makes him an uncommercial option for most breeders . 

Will be challenged to compete against some of the other commercial stallions and his biggest challenge is getting it done.

Despite that - this boy has better stats than Snitzel this season (SW/R) . He will also improve commercially in the ring & the mare book will improve considerably with Darley going to support.
Whitto
one of the stats i find useful to look at over sw/r is the Apex ratings . Snitzel has 21.5% of his starters in the top 8% of prizemoney earners . i.e. from 969 starters , 209 of those fall into the top 8% range of prizemoney earners . Street Boss isn't is the top 80 and snitzel is 3rd on both A rating and ABC rating charts . reference Bluebloods mag . 

One thing about Street Boss, is that he is the ONLY stallion in the Top 50 General Sires list who actually stands in Australia to have had less than 70 runners for the season.  How the hell can he compete with Snitzel on A rating and ABC rating, when his oldest runners are only 5 and the majority of his runners have only had a handful of starts?  Stats schmats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 9:40pm
Forgot to mention he also doesn't have 4yo's as he missed a season due to injury.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rem286 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Darley have a few dropping in price I believe, and not only the obvious ones.

Which stallions were you referring to rem ? The only surprise for me is Street Boss and Teofilo (way over priced ) but I can't see any value at all in the roster . 

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