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Shin Soreness/Bucked

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Shin Soreness/Bucked
    Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 8:40am

Many punters especially have no idea what sore shins involve so I thought this snippet from Mick Kent via Kristen Mannings' Vic. Breeding Newsletter may be useful:

This week we talk to Cranbourne trainer Michael Kent...

 

Cranbourne based trainer Michael Kent takes it personally when one of his charges (and it does not happen often) goes shin sore – “I hate it!”

 

Mindful of the long term problems a horse who gets to that stage faces, he is a big believer in prevention – “if you do early damage you render the horses' cannon ineffective for life.”

 

“And, if you insult the cannon, you insult the whole body. Where the cannon is at is indicative of where the rest of body is at – the whole skeletal system.”

Kent likes to get the bones of his horses right first – “the skeleton is the most important thing,” he said – “worry about the muscles later, they are easy to develop.”

 

“Once degeneration of the bones starts,” he added, “there is only one way to go. It is vital to get this right to start with – bucked cannons take a lot away from a horse, they are never the same.”

So what programme does Kent have in place? Firstly, he looks at the cannons – taking radiographs to see where each horse is at. And that has been a learning experience.

 

“We found some horses who looked to have great bone actually didn’t. What looked from the outside to be strong and thick could be hollow inside and extremely weak. Other horses who by all appearances had lighter bone could be stronger.”

 

Once x-raying the cannon, Kent studies the thickness of the frontal cortex which ideally should measure around 15mm (built up from 10mm) – “when it gets to 13mm we start a bit of work and they are ready to take greater pressure at the 15mm.”


To stimulate the cannon to get to that stage, Kent uses the methods already touched upon by Dr Helen Davies – short sharp sprints to positively remodel the bone – then back off.

 

Too much work and the cannon reacts quickly, laying down emergency bone which does not have the strength and pliability of normal bone.

 

“The shin can’t bend and you end up with knee and other associated problems,” Kent said.

 

“For anyone serious about racing a two-year-old,” he continued, “it makes sense to do the x-rays – the technology is there so why not use it?”

Large stables, however, rely on turnover. “They don’t want to cuddle horses – they want to quickly find out if they don’t have any talent. They have so many more coming through.”

 

Kent would love to see a pre-training complex established with the principals discussed in this article actively practiced.

 

“The bigger stables like to get their horses almost ready to go,” he said, “and if those horses have been conditioned properly with the right bone density – then such a business would do very well, they would be so popular.”

 

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxamill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 10:59am
this is what makes him a great trainer ,Looks out of the box and uses technology , after all, this what it is for , good spot and post gay,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 4:35pm
Unfortunately I didn't follow the 'omen' tip Angry. Absolutely in the Oaks today $20+ but.......... a Redoutes, on a bog track, over 1 1/2miles? Oh dear, underestimated Mr Kent Embarrassed
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2011 at 11:28am

I also posted the above on a small US training site & think a couple of the responses worthwhile pasting:

  "Along with Michael de Kock in Dubai, Michael Kent is the
most technologically advanced trainer in the world today. He guesses at
nothing. Everything from the distance a horse races, to how often he
campaigns, etc. is tied to objective measures of fitness using treadmills,
heart rate monitors, and blood lactate meters. Here is a direct quote:

"In the highly competitive environment of thoroughbred racing, trainers
constantly need to be looking for an edge. My edge is science and I've had
a great tutor in Allan Davie. Allan combines his expertise in exercise
physiology with knowledge of the thoroughbred racehorse and has introduced
an innovative method of evaluating a horse's fitness. This provides much
deeper insight into how an individual horse responds to training and allows
me to adjust their work accordingly. Allan has brought science to the art of
horse training which is something I believe is simply too important to be
ignored by anyone who's truly serious about this business.

Michael Kent, Kent Racing Stables Melbourne

To that end, everything is decided for each individual horse based on his or
her objective physiological response to training and racing.

I have no ties to either him or the website above, but I do the same type of
work here in the US.

Bill

  Please read more about this stuff on my blog at www.thoroedge.wordpress.com"

Here's an old post I have posted in the past. Maybe some new members might
be interested againa as well as you:

Personal fact: I have started and raced many thoroughbred homebreds and have
never been forced to stop my training or racing because of bucked shins. I
never thought too much about it at the time, but now hearing so much about
shin bucking, I appreciate how lucky or "skilled", I was. I originally
thought until a few days ago that my lack of being cursed with bucked shins
in my young horses was probably due to my atypical habit of galloping my
horses along at a nice brisk rate. I would guess, I would gallop at around
the 3-4:00 minute speed for a mile. It seems to me most exercise riders
prefer to lope around the track very slowly, few seem to want to make the
horse "work" much even at the slower speeds of galloping. At any rate, that
was what I believed until I read the article, "Training Young Athletes" by
Sushil Dulai Wenholz from the October issue of The Horse. The basic synopsis
of this article is that slow work really does not affect the likely hood of
decreasing bucked shins, no matter how much mileage is involved. It says
that short speed work is the key. It goes on to describe a training regime
that was implemented by Dr. Fisher which I will quote below:

"...John Fisher, DVM, a veterinarian and racehorse trainer, set out to see
if he could develop an optimal program to use on the horses in his barn. The
schedule he came up with starts with basic conditioning. Once a horse could
comfortably go one mile with furlongs at 18-20 seconds each, Fisher began
introducing speed work twice a week, using a pace of one furlong per 15
seconds, and starting with a one furlong distance. Every three to four
weeks, he increased the distance by another furlong. By the end of three
months, the horse was doing 3/8ths mile bursts at speed, but only once every
5 days. On non-speed days, the horse was either rested or galloped, allowing
time for the stimulated bone to remodel. Over the years, Fisher has found
this program effective in his barn. Shin problems have dropped from being
practically the norm to being a rarity, yet he's seen no increase in
injuries to his horses' ankles and knees." (page 36)

This is all very interesting for me. On closer examination, I find that my
training routine was not radically different from Fisher. I actually seem to
have hurried my horses a bit more than Fisher did during my early stages. I
come from a harness horse background and we are use to working our horses
for "speed", particularly when conditioning, young unstarted horses, twice a
week. So right here, I fall into FIsher's specs. I have studied a few old
time thoroughbred trainers from the last century and they seemed to work
many of their horses on this twice-a-week schedule as well. For instance,
speed work every Monday/Thursday or Tuesday/Friday or Wednesday/Saturday
schedules.

However, when I was starting young thoroughbreds for the first time at speed
work, I would ride them under their accustomed gallop routine, then during
the last 1/16th of their gallop session, I would make them "tip-toe" as I
like to call it. Tiptoeing is simply just urging them to go at a faster pace
approaching breeze speeds. I would do this maybe every other day which
would amount to 3-4 times a week. I would then lengthen this 1/16 out to an
1/8 at the same rate of 3-4 times a week at the end of their gallop session.
Eventually, I worked them up to breezing the normal 3/8ths works, but
cutting back to every third day which would be the twice a week routine. I
would have a "fast" day and a "slow" day in these two breezes. Every week, I
would try, if that animal was ready, to drop breeze times down faster and
faster on my fast days each week. On my slow breeze day, I would just
duplicate the previous time of the fast work. Between these work days, I
would gallop 2-3 miles with a mile or better warm-up at a trot. I very
seldom give them a day off except when they started going the faster works
at a half or more, then I may walk them the following day. They would gallop
under all conditions, no rain days ever. Again, the personal facts for me
were that my horses never bucked and they were fantastically sound. I never
bowed a horse or had other common problems.

  doug    http://racehorseherbal.com/       Dougs' site, a great read if you've not visited Smile

And a reply from Bill:

Fantastic info Doug-

  "I spoke at length with Dr. Fisher a year ago and wrote a blog piece on how
he came about to develop the training regimen you speak of, as well as the
10 year New Bolton Center study with Dr. Nunamaker that proved such a
training 'style' turns out 2 year olds with bone density SUPERIOR to
  actively racing 4 year olds that were traditionally 'legged up'."  


Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2011 at 7:48pm

The protocol I'm presently using on 2 x 2yos, so far all's well after the 1st month Smile

Another take on the same concept from Dr. Jack Woolsey, DVM:


Distance Speed/Pace Total Time Frequency Duration
1F 15 sec/furlong :15 2x/week 2 weeks
2F 15 sec/furlong :30 2x/week 2 weeks
3F 15 sec/furlong :45 2x/week 2 weeks
4F 15 sec/furlong :60 2x/week 2 weeks
2F 13 sec/furlong :26 2x/week 3 weeks
3F 13 sec/furlong :39 2x/week 3 weeks
4F 13 sec/furlong :52 Every 5 days 2 weeks

*31 breezes in 16 weeks, starting Jan. 1st and ending April 15th – conversely, traditionally trained 2 year olds may get worked from 2-4F on average 12 times before heading to the starting gate.

*Notice how speed is kept constant as distance increases, then as speed increases, distance drops back off. Excellent example of changing exercise variables to induce positive adaptations, in this case as one variable is increased (speed) another is decreased (distance) in order to avoid overtraining.



Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tauto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 11:44pm
Great read.l've always been told my horse just wasn't standing upto its work and would need a spell and comeback and be fine!!!

None have comeback and been able to race for longer than 1 prep before knee and leg probs.
Very enlightening you obviously get the best out of your horses and its showing!!!
Let's hope other trainers do the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxamill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 10:26pm
yeh i dont think gay talking pony club tautoLOL  howd that thing go over the sticks anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tauto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2011 at 9:20pm
Loved the hurdles and should win next start before going to Annenkov at a lovers retreat not a mens spa club like some!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bel Esprit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2011 at 10:05pm
Just found out my 2yo has gone slightly shin sore in her near fore after doing some fast work Saturday morning.Any recommendations and advice from people that have expreienced this would be great re:spelling or keeping in stables and reducing work load would be great!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 9:24am
The bone needs  to heal and strengthen, the process can be helped I have found by firstly spelling (for sure) and with Magnetic boots  for 12 hurs a day, say night feed and take off in the morning. The magnets help bring blood flow to the area to aid in bone density growth. Rare earth magnets are best, you can buy them on line from aussie magnets and have them sown into some paddock boots. (don't let them get wet) This is a much cheaper way of doing it than buying them ready made.
New product called bonifide, don't know if it works but it is Vit K, that is supposed to aid in bone density growth.
Magnets have worked for us in a hairline fracture, quick healing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bel Esprit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 9:35am
Interesting GAJ,will look into the magnets.How long would you advise to spell?
So many people say different things,the norm seems to be 6-8 weeks?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 9:43am
I know you are probably keen to get the 2yo back to work, but 3 months has been the norm for us, but it would be an individual thing, depending on the horse build, size etc, Obviously there would be more stress put on the front if it was a large well built type, then perhaps more time would be needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bel Esprit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 10:27am
Na,time is not an issue no hurry.Would prefer to give her longer out to mature.The reason i asked is because i have read that extended paddock rest can be bad in regards to the bone maturing?
As i said everything i read people seem to be saying different things.
Shes a pretty light filly,we weighed her the other week she was around 460kg from memory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 2:50pm
Yes they are all individuals, and sometimes the soreness comes back, the article that gay posted is great, and there are all sorts of training methods to use to avoid the problem. I agree, advice will vary, but I am only saying what has worked for us. The magnets are brilliant and you can use them on yourself to see how quickly they can remedy a pain.
She may even be able to stay in training if only given slow work and swimming (we have one like that now, she jarred up by skylarking in the day yards from being hassled by ducks!), but I'm not a vet or a trainer, so best you get some professional advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redgalleon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2011 at 11:12pm
From Valerie, in S,A, In UK we used Trainers wash applied before work and after work this strenghened  the bones and tendons, shin soreness is rampant in Australia, we never saw it in UK, ground might have been softer than here, it really is a cracking of the cannon bones under the peristenum covering the bone, fractures. Also you can use BONE RADIOL LINIMENT this gets rid of accumulated calcification which is in reality new bone growth caused by the fractures on the surface of the cannon bones. Slower work gets a horse fitter than gallioping,in UK we walked horses in the string for a mile before we gave them a pipe opener. Which was a hand canter, We did not gallop flat out but saved that for race days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redgalleon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2011 at 11:22pm
From Valerie in Adelaide.
 
Comfry is for healing bone fractures, the Gypsies call it "Knit Bone". I knew the gipsies in U.K.n Your can just buy comfry ointment or put the leaves of comfrey around the horses cannons and bandage on. Cabbage leaves are another excellant cure also for bowed Tendons.  Bandaged on with a dampened woolen bandage over the cabbage leaf which can be wetted before wrapping around the cannon bone of the horse, i put the spline of the cabbage leaf to the back of the cannon bone then bandage over,.
Apply on a two daily basis leaving the cabbage leaf on each time for over 24 hours. Then apply another cabbage leaf, the cabbage leaf has properties within it to enable the tendons imflammation to subside. Bowed Tendons in reality are imflammation caused by blood as the tendon tears away from its sheath and lymph fills the spaces within which bows the tendon outm of line, you can also maswsage the tendon with your hands and you will feel the blood clots as bubbles  these need to be reabsorbed to ensure perfect healing allowing the tendon back into its sheath.  Bone Radiol is an excellant working liniment  that brings blood to the injured part and allowing the congestion to be resorbed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 5:59pm
Hi Valerie, enjoyed reading your replies, t would be ideal to follow those methods of training which I am familiar with too, however I think too expensive for the trainers to have the luxury of riders out for that long/per horse. Walkers are taking the place of these enjoyable strolls and sadly I think the horses find it boring.
I remember the comfry treatments now too, you have just jogged my memory. We have it rampant here at present, interesting to see the cows go for it just after they have calved. Animals know what is good for them!
As you say you don't get the Shin soreness over there in the UK, probably the training method, not the surface so much as It varies from place to place in Oz but the training methods are fairly uniform.
Have not heard of trainers wash - what does it consist of?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sadlers wells Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2011 at 7:25am
Hi have been using comfrey on my horses and myself for years,I use comfrey root oil,had one with a 45% tendon tear wich was told would not heal properly,he had stem cell and i used comfrey leaves under bandages til they came of then the oil,tuff rock foint formula(works on tendons to)he was back in work in 6 months scans showed completely heales with minimal scaring,he did not have any issues with the leg and to look at you wouldnt notice unless you knew to look.Unfortunately he got an epaglotic entrapment wich was made worse after surgey.(ran 23 secs flat over 400 when couldnt breath)what might have been
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