Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Breeding - Public Forums > Stallions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sepoy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


Sepoy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>
Author
Message
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Teofilo is $10,000 more than SB after dealing has been done.

Street Boss has 10% more Winners to runners than Doomsday.

You will not survive in this industry on stake and group winners alone.
First you must show that you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear on the Winners to runners table.

SB has achieved that, will he survive going forward anyone's guess.
His fertility issues may make it difficult, but he does have the to die for Street Cry blood.

Domesday didn't survive at Darley, it's just a fact.


Not many 5k stallions survive at darley

Regardless for 8k he is fair value
Back to Top
linghi11 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 7452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 12:20pm
Darley stallions - it’s like the kiss of death by and large.
to the victor
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Teofilo is $10,000 more than SB after dealing has been done.

Street Boss has 10% more Winners to runners than Doomsday.

You will not survive in this industry on stake and group winners alone.
First you must show that you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear on the Winners to runners table.

SB has achieved that, will he survive going forward anyone's guess.
His fertility issues may make it difficult, but he does have the to die for Street Cry blood.

Domesday didn't survive at Darley, it's just a fact.


Not many 5k stallions survive at darley

Regardless for 8k he is fair value


Domesday was $16,500 in 2013.

He had his chance.







Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 2:41pm
Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts. 
Back to Top
Glencoe View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Location: Mt. Gambier S.A
Status: Offline
Points: 1942
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:00pm
Darabaah as Pauline would say re your comment "darley management interfered "   please explain.
 
Obviously you infer wrong decisions were made . What were they!!!!!!
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:02pm
His mares were vetted, ie: approved or disapproved for him to cover.
Back to Top
Glencoe View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Location: Mt. Gambier S.A
Status: Offline
Points: 1942
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:05pm
When often it is the mare owner who may be the best decision maker?
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:09pm
FACTS!
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:24pm
HE was just not commercially viable dara/bradjm.

I think his biggest problem was he was conformationally ugly.
This is a fashion industry do not forget.
Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

HE was just not commercially viable dara/bradjm.

I think his biggest problem was he was conformationally ugly.
This is a fashion industry do not forget.



Never said he was commercially viable

I bred a handy one he was giving the people who purchased him a bit of fun, unfortunately he died after only 5 starts from salmonella

And as fate decrees his mother died in a paddock accident a year before he raced, so no chance of going back.

Unfortunately for Domesday a lot of his stock appreciate a little ground, they aren't get up and go early comers but if you have the right mare you can breed yourself a nice horse from him for kiss all money.
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:42pm
It is indeed a fashion industry, where 'beauty is what beauty does'.
He was commercial enough to get a price hike along with 'managing'.
So, was it the 'price hike' or 'managing' that made him suddenly commercially unviable???

Back to Top
linghi11 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 7452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 4:17pm
Alright, so I have a theory - I believe some stallions and mares are genetically dominant - you send them crappy recessive mares and bang, good horses. You send them better performed dominant mares - and there’s a clash, you get poor animals. Alternatively, there’s mares who only throw good horses to awful stallions. So in that way, managing a book to select better mares would be a disaster.
to the victor
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Daraabah Daraabah wrote:

Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts. 

Member of that Darley Mgmt team now steering a BIG stud in NZ. Will be interesting..........
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 7:10pm
Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.

________________________________

He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot.

He failed because he was not good enough - Period!
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 7:11pm
Daraabah wrote:

Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.

________________________________

He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot.

He failed because he was not good enough - Period![/QUOTE]
Back to Top
Bi Carb View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2082
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bi Carb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Alright, so I have a theory - I believe some stallions and mares are genetically dominant - you send them crappy recessive mares and bang, good horses. You send them better performed dominant mares - and there’s a clash, you get poor animals. Alternatively, there’s mares who only throw good horses to awful stallions. So in that way, managing a book to select better mares would be a disaster.
 
There may very well be something in this.
How often do you see it , a stallion fires off a crappy book and gets shifted to a bigger stud or interstate and gets 'better' mares and barely fires a shot.
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Daraabah wrote:

Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.

________________________________

He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot.

He failed because he was not good enough - Period!
[/QUOTE]

You can refer to ratios all you like but when a stallion gets group winners, full books, mares turned away and has a fee increase AFTER his progeny hit the track, he is ‘proven’.

Back to Top
Glencoe View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Location: Mt. Gambier S.A
Status: Offline
Points: 1942
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 8:51pm
Bi-carb & Linghi   the best example of which you speak was Royal Artist
Started out in sensational fashion in Mt. gambier with bush mares    Shifted to Arundel stud (I Think) Given a fantastic opportunity on the outskirts of Melb with a better class of mare & failed
Back to Top
linghi11 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 7452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 9:03pm
There is a saying about not moving stallions once they’re established, but shuttling does work. I’m curious if Written Tycoon may be one of these in the future.
to the victor
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Glencoe Glencoe wrote:


Bi-carb & Linghi   the best example of which you speak was Royal Artist
Started out in sensational fashion in Mt. gambier with bush mares    Shifted to Arundel stud (I Think) Given a fantastic opportunity on the outskirts of Melb with a better class of mare & failed


Was that the Star Kingdom horse Glencoe?..Peter Mushalli ( spell check) had him at Caulfield. very smart, out of canvas back I was thinking.
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 41243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

There is a saying about not moving stallions once they’re established, but shuttling does work. I’m curious if Written Tycoon may be one of these in the future.


Blue Gum set EDL up, and got him going,  and then he got moved to Coolmore, so maybe that doesnt always ring true, Linghi ??
animals before people.
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Daraabah Daraabah wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Daraabah wrote:

Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.

________________________________

He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot.

He failed because he was not good enough - Period!


<p ="Msonormal">You can refer to ratios all you like but when a stallion
gets group winners, full books, mares turned away and has a fee increase AFTER
his progeny hit the track, he is ‘proven’.<o:p></o:p>

[/QUOTE]

Statistics or ratios as you call them make or break a stallion.

He has proven he can throw a good horse.

He has also proven he unable to consistently sire enough winners to be successful at a large stud which broke him.


Back to Top
Bi Carb View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2082
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bi Carb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by Glencoe Glencoe wrote:

Bi-carb & Linghi   the best example of which you speak was Royal Artist
Started out in sensational fashion in Mt. gambier with bush mares    Shifted to Arundel stud (I Think) Given a fantastic opportunity on the outskirts of Melb with a better class of mare & failed
 
Exactly right.
That's a long time ago , you must be as old as me !!
 
Made Of Gold was a star when based in SA and not worth a squirt when shifted to Vic for the 'better mares'.
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:20pm
Anyway this is the Sepoy thread he still has a chance.
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:23pm
The only excuse for a stallion suddenly losing his way is management incompetence. After he gets winners, studs should be studying what those dams have in common to identify the line(s) he needs. No coincidence the dams of Pressday, Ruthven, Five To Midnight etc all carry Klairessa. Domesday needs what she has. 

I tag Arrowfield stud is the leader in this process. They clearly know how their stallions are playing and set them up for sustained success.
Back to Top
Daraabah View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:25pm
Sepoy has winners. Darley should know.
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:36pm
Bring back Dumbsday.
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 41243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:41pm
Now you have sl*gged him off, watch him fire Thumbs Up
animals before people.
Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Originally posted by Daraabah Daraabah wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Daraabah wrote:

Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.

________________________________

He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot.

He failed because he was not good enough - Period!


<p ="Msonormal">You can refer to ratios all you like but when a stallion
gets group winners, full books, mares turned away and has a fee increase AFTER
his progeny hit the track, he is ‘proven’.<o:p></o:p>



Statistics or ratios as you call them make or break a stallion.

He has proven he can throw a good horse.

He has also proven he unable to consistently sire enough winners to be successful at a large stud which broke him.


[/QUOTE]

Just to burst your bubble winner to foals Street boss and domesday are about even.
Back to Top
Paul Hogan View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Now you have sl*gged him off, watch him fire Thumbs Up


Ha Ha.....Yeah......nah
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.