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Sepoy |
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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Not many 5k stallions survive at darley Regardless for 8k he is fair value |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Darley stallions - it’s like the kiss of death by and large.
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to the victor
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Domesday was $16,500 in 2013. He had his chance. |
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Darabaah as Pauline would say re your comment "darley management interfered " please explain.
Obviously you infer wrong decisions were made . What were they!!!!!!
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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His mares were vetted, ie: approved or disapproved for him to cover.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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When often it is the mare owner who may be the best decision maker?
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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FACTS!
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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HE was just not commercially viable dara/bradjm.
I think his biggest problem was he was conformationally ugly. This is a fashion industry do not forget. |
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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Never said he was commercially viable I bred a handy one he was giving the people who purchased him a bit of fun, unfortunately he died after only 5 starts from salmonella And as fate decrees his mother died in a paddock accident a year before he raced, so no chance of going back. Unfortunately for Domesday a lot of his stock appreciate a little ground, they aren't get up and go early comers but if you have the right mare you can breed yourself a nice horse from him for kiss all money. |
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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It is indeed a fashion industry, where 'beauty is what beauty does'.
He was commercial enough to get a price hike along with 'managing'. So, was it the 'price hike' or 'managing' that made him suddenly commercially unviable???
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Alright, so I have a theory - I believe some stallions and mares are genetically dominant - you send them crappy recessive mares and bang, good horses. You send them better performed dominant mares - and there’s a clash, you get poor animals. Alternatively, there’s mares who only throw good horses to awful stallions. So in that way, managing a book to select better mares would be a disaster.
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to the victor
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Member of that Darley Mgmt team now steering a BIG stud in NZ. Will be interesting..........
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts.
________________________________ He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot. He failed because he was not good enough - Period! |
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Daraabah wrote:
Yes, but he had already produced just about ALL his Group winners on lesser service fees prior to 2013 before he was actively managed by Darley Aust at the precise time of his decline. He had his chance. He proved himself. Darley 'management' interfered and things changed. Pattern probably repeated with other stallions, other matings and given the tone of another thread, in other 'areas' aswell. Poor Sheikh, getting screwed BIG TIME on all fronts. ________________________________ He didn't prove himself he was not able to achieve a good enough Winners to Runners ratio and still cannot. He failed because he was not good enough - Period![/QUOTE] |
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Bi Carb
Champion Joined: 09 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2082 |
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There may very well be something in this. How often do you see it , a stallion fires off a crappy book and gets shifted to a bigger stud or interstate and gets 'better' mares and barely fires a shot.
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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You can refer to ratios all you like but when a stallion
gets group winners, full books, mares turned away and has a fee increase AFTER
his progeny hit the track, he is ‘proven’. |
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Bi-carb & Linghi the best example of which you speak was Royal Artist Started out in sensational fashion in Mt. gambier with bush mares Shifted to Arundel stud (I Think) Given a fantastic opportunity on the outskirts of Melb with a better class of mare & failed
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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There is a saying about not moving stallions once they’re established, but shuttling does work. I’m curious if Written Tycoon may be one of these in the future.
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to the victor
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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Was that the Star Kingdom horse Glencoe?..Peter Mushalli ( spell check) had him at Caulfield. very smart, out of canvas back I was thinking. |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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Blue Gum set EDL up, and got him going, and then he got moved to Coolmore, so maybe that doesnt always ring true, Linghi ?? |
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animals before people.
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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<p ="Msonormal">You can refer to ratios all you like but when a stallion [/QUOTE] gets group winners, full books, mares turned away and has a fee increase AFTER his progeny hit the track, he is ‘proven’.<o:p></o:p> Statistics or ratios as you call them make or break a stallion. He has proven he can throw a good horse. He has also proven he unable to consistently sire enough winners to be successful at a large stud which broke him. |
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Bi Carb
Champion Joined: 09 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2082 |
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Exactly right. That's a long time ago , you must be as old as me !! Made Of Gold was a star when based in SA and not worth a squirt when shifted to Vic for the 'better mares'.
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Anyway this is the Sepoy thread he still has a chance.
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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The only excuse for a stallion suddenly losing his way is management incompetence. After he gets winners, studs should be studying what those dams have in common to identify the line(s) he needs. No coincidence the dams of Pressday, Ruthven, Five To Midnight etc all carry Klairessa. Domesday needs what she has.
I tag Arrowfield stud is the leader in this process. They clearly know how their stallions are playing and set them up for sustained success. |
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Sepoy has winners. Darley should know.
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Bring back Dumbsday.
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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Now you have sl*gged him off, watch him fire
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animals before people.
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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Statistics or ratios as you call them make or break a stallion. He has proven he can throw a good horse. He has also proven he unable to consistently sire enough winners to be successful at a large stud which broke him. [/QUOTE] Just to burst your bubble winner to foals Street boss and domesday are about even. |
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Ha Ha.....Yeah......nah |
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