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Sepoy |
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layer
Champion Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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Wait until his stock hit the track and it may turn out to be cheap
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progeny test
Champion Joined: 08 May 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1162 |
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Short answer = No You answered your own question Reng. only 1 stallion in 10 is successful. I think your stats confirm that only 3 stallions in 100 stallions is commercial. The odds are worse Flying Spur, Star Watch, Canny Lad, Marauding are one of the 3 in 100 |
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Ash
Champion Joined: 18 Aug 2011 Location: Mildura Status: Offline Points: 663 |
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You are correct about the 3/4? its 7/8 and it matters not one iota re the "female line" -there are a few "female lines" in any pedigree and therein a lot of common mares. [/QUOTE]
Rubbish don. To be considered 1/2 or 3/4 relations a tail female must be present. Musket and Makybe Diva are 3/4 relatives- by sons of Danehill out of Tugela. Related and Sepoy are bred on the same cross, nothing more. Just as Raceway and Sebring are.
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Spearmint
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Sorry Ash but it is a 7/8 relation in blood technically speaking.
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"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Nobody
Champion Joined: 23 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1189 |
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Off topic...but does anyone know what has happened to another Elusive Quality stallion in Elusive City? Used to stand at Hanui Farm but no longer it seems.
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Biggles
Champion Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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Ash is correct on this one.
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Flying High
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Ash
Champion Joined: 18 Aug 2011 Location: Mildura Status: Offline Points: 663 |
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Spearmint. I understand where you are coming from but it just doesn't work that way in thoroughbreds.
Every Bel Esprit out of a Desert Sun mare is not a 3/4 relation to Black Caviar.
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Spearmint
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Technically speaking it is a 3/4 blood relation. I know the tail female line is missing and is definitely important but technically speaking that is what it is.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this point. |
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"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Daraabah
Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Its not a question of disagreeing because Don & Spearmint are correctly explaining 'fractional' relationships which refer to every part of a tabulated pedigree. Ash, you are confusing the general term '3/4 relation' with a more the specific term, '3/4 maternal relations' which would refer to horses who have the same sire and same grand dam.
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tauto
Champion Joined: 14 Jul 2011 Location: EltHAM Status: Offline Points: 1104 |
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I AGREE with Subastral hes on the small side not worth $66k should be abt $15k get full books for 3 years then we can see what he throws.
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TAUTO/WINFREUX
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Biggles
Champion Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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for cataloging purposes a 3/4, 1/2 and full are the only descriptions used. 7/8ths does not come into it. 3/4 sister would be out of the same mare by a half brother or son of the of the original. 3/4 in blood would be by the same stallion out of a half sister or daughter of the original. Any other descriptions don't count in thoroughbred pedigrees.
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Flying High
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don
Champion Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Giggles--catalogue standards allow fillies by the same stallion and out of 1/2 sisters to be termed "3/4 sisters." They don't include "blood"
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Ash
Champion Joined: 18 Aug 2011 Location: Mildura Status: Offline Points: 663 |
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Correct don. But the 1/2 sisters you speak of are due to sharing the same mother not the same sire as you mentioned when you called Related and Sepoy 7/8 brothers.
Obviously some are confused with the "blood" term. Two horses by Fastnet Rock both out of mares by Snippets but from totally unrelated mares are not called 3/4 relations by blood. Cambiaso and Sebring are not termed 3/4 blood brothers, they are merely bred on the same cross. It's like calling Flying Spur and Redoute's Choice 1/2 brothers!
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Dalmary 5-H
Champion Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 430 |
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In reality, away from the industry that has been created using theories, opinions, unique breeding and racing language, results, terms and references, both Flying Spur and Redoute's Choice are half-brothers. Could it be a theory that these outstanding sires throw a particular type of progeny no matter the the dam's bloodlines, estimating two out 40 mares throw this black type performer by a particular sire.
Take a look at Exceed And Excel and Gonski, did Danehill produce two very individualistic types there. Same robust front running steam train like action?
Turn the pedigree upside down and you have a different prospective.
Thats why this industry is so enjoyable and fascinating, another theory, more guess work, another progenitator on the rise producing stock outrunning what their breeding suggests.
Bloodstock marvels explaining their theories in dollars, the unknown hard luck breeder, owner, trainer and jockey succeeding at the ultimate level in horse racing.
Thats why the thoroughbred industry is an attractive journey for anybody who seeks excitment.
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don
Champion Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Ash, my post above was correcting Giggles re cataloguing -the previous post when I was referring to 3/4 and 7/8 relations was a matter of pure fact.
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lulu
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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On the relation topic. What relation to Black Caviar is the mare Belleluia Bel Esprit/ Song of the Sun?
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Biggles
Champion Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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Don you are right . Inglis's always used to use 3/4 brother in blood...but since Arion started doing their pedigrees it has stopped, which is a shame because it confuses the matter. By the way re my forum name which you decided to change. I have never been rude to anyone on this forum yet and I won't start now....so have a good day.
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Flying High
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don
Champion Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Sorry about that Biggles -it was truly a continued mistake as I have grave difficulties with my eyesight.
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Run For Fun
Champion Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14575 |
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Amongst other things. But an opinionated young fella whose opinions are strangely sought by a few on the odd occasion.
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It's hard to soar with eagles...
Cheers |
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ENJOY
Champion Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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Speed .. Elusive Quality Stallion Sons
Sepoy .Cautious Time. Cardinal Virtue cross for speed
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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How has Sepoy gone so far ?
I have seen 3 very promising performances but can not recall any winners yet. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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whitt0
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 10911 |
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Another unplaced runner in the first at Kembla today.
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Aurelius
Champion Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Status: Offline Points: 4474 |
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A bit surprising. If I had the money I would of loved to have gone to him.
I know it is only early but thought he would be a very good sire. The smart money might be on his half brother Mulazem at 1/12th roughly of Sepoy's service fee. |
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ianb
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Queensland Status: Offline Points: 1311 |
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It's not even Christmas yet, give the horse a chance, bugger me the dynamics of what makes a successful stallion have changed over the last 10 years. He will still be a hot commodity come sale day.
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runnerdance
Champion Joined: 10 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 579 |
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'smart money???'... only if your accountant told you to negatively gear
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Not a chance, ianb. If he hasn't had a winner from 10 starters come January his averages will be right down the toilet.
And I'm not saying he will be a bad sire - the fact is if he hasn't had at least some success before then the buyers will be gone in droves.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I thought it was a run of real promise. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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.Swynford.
Champion Joined: 23 Jun 2014 Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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Agree. The market massively overrates first season sires and is just as quick to drop off if they don't produce early 2yos. This is no reflection on his quality as a sire. It's a reflection on a very fickle buying bench.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17265 |
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Not even halfway through the season yet. Plenty of time left to see how they measure up. Don't go jumping off the edge of the cliff just yet.
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