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Sepoy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote layer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 9:53pm
Wait until his stock hit the track and it may turn out to be cheap Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by reng reng wrote:

Flying Spur at his peak stood for more; Canny Lad, Marauding at their peak should have too.  Star Watch would have if he hadn't died after 2 crops.  

Given that only 1 in 10 stallions make it as commercial prospects, aren't you being pretty harsh?

Time will tell with Sepoy - I wonder how much advantage he had being from the EI crop but from a non-EI affected farm...


Short answer = No

You answered your own question Reng. only 1 stallion in 10 is successful.
I think your stats confirm that only 3 stallions in 100 stallions is commercial. The odds are worse

Flying Spur, Star Watch, Canny Lad, Marauding are one of the 3 in 100










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2012 at 10:20am
Originally posted by don don wrote:

Originally posted by Ash</td></tr></table> 
<DIV></DIV>3/4 related to Sepoy? Yes, both by Elusive Quality out of Danehill mares in turn out of Marscay mares but no common mares in the female line is there?[/QUOTE Ash
3/4 related to Sepoy? Yes, both by Elusive Quality out of Danehill mares in turn out of Marscay mares but no common mares in the female line is there?[/QUOTE wrote:

 
You are correct about the 3/4? its 7/8 and it matters not one iota re the "female line" -there are a few "female lines" in any pedigree and therein a lot of common mares.
 
You are correct about the 3/4? its 7/8 and it matters not one iota re the "female line" -there are a few "female lines" in any pedigree and therein a lot of common mares.
[/QUOTE]
Rubbish don. To be considered 1/2 or 3/4 relations a tail female must be present. Musket and Makybe Diva are 3/4 relatives- by sons of Danehill out of Tugela. Related and Sepoy are bred on the same cross, nothing more. Just as Raceway and Sebring are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2012 at 11:47am
Sorry Ash but it is a 7/8 relation in blood technically speaking.Smile
"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2012 at 10:39pm
Off topic...but does anyone know what has happened to another Elusive Quality stallion in Elusive City? Used to stand at Hanui Farm but no longer it seems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 7:42am
Ash is correct on this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 8:46am
Spearmint. I understand where you are coming from but it just doesn't work that way in thoroughbreds.
 
Every Bel Esprit out of a Desert Sun mare is not a 3/4 relation to Black Caviar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 10:37am
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Spearmint. I understand where you are coming from but it just doesn't work that way in thoroughbreds.
 
Every Bel Esprit out of a Desert Sun mare is not a 3/4 relation to Black Caviar.
Technically speaking it is a 3/4 blood relation. I know the tail female line is missing and is definitely important but technically speaking that is what it is.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this point.
"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 1:56pm

Its not a question of disagreeing because Don & Spearmint are correctly explaining 'fractional' relationships which refer to every part of a tabulated pedigree. 

Ash, you are confusing the general term '3/4 relation' with a more the specific term, '3/4 maternal relations' which would refer to horses who have the same sire and same grand dam. 
 
Don is also correct about the relationship of Sepoy and Related. These stallions do share 7 of their 8 great grandparents and are therefore 7/8 relations, not 3/4 as I said earlier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tauto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 7:08pm
I AGREE with Subastral hes on the small side not worth $66k should be abt $15k get full books for 3 years then we can see what he throws.
TAUTO/WINFREUX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 9:47pm
for cataloging purposes a 3/4, 1/2 and full are the only descriptions used. 7/8ths does not come into it. 3/4 sister would be out of the same mare by a half brother or son of the of the original. 3/4 in blood would be by the same stallion out of a half sister or daughter of the original. Any other descriptions don't count in thoroughbred pedigrees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 8:28am
Giggles--catalogue standards allow fillies by the same stallion and out of 1/2 sisters to be termed "3/4 sisters." They don't include "blood"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by don don wrote:

Giggles--catalogue standards allow fillies by the same stallion and out of 1/2 sisters to be termed "3/4 sisters." They don't include "blood"
Correct don. But the 1/2 sisters you speak of are due to sharing the same mother not the same sire as you mentioned when you called Related and Sepoy 7/8 brothers. 
 
Obviously some are confused with the "blood" term. Two horses by Fastnet Rock both out of mares by Snippets but from totally unrelated mares are not called 3/4 relations by blood. Cambiaso and Sebring are not termed 3/4 blood brothers, they are merely bred on the same cross. It's like calling Flying Spur and Redoute's Choice 1/2 brothers!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalmary 5-H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 2:38pm

In reality, away from the industry that has been created using theories, opinions, unique breeding and racing language, results, terms and references, both Flying Spur and Redoute's Choice are half-brothers.

Could it be a theory that these outstanding sires throw a particular type of progeny no matter the the dam's bloodlines, estimating two out 40 mares throw this black type performer by a particular sire.
 
Take a look at Exceed And Excel and Gonski, did Danehill produce two very individualistic types there. Same robust front running steam train like action?
 
Turn the pedigree upside down and you have a different prospective.
 
Thats why this industry is so enjoyable and fascinating, another theory, more guess work, another progenitator on the rise producing stock outrunning what their breeding suggests.
 
Bloodstock marvels explaining their theories in dollars, the unknown hard luck breeder, owner, trainer and jockey succeeding at the ultimate level in horse racing.
 
Thats why the thoroughbred industry is an attractive journey for anybody who seeks excitment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Ash Ash wrote:

Originally posted by don don wrote:

Giggles--catalogue standards allow fillies by the same stallion and out of 1/2 sisters to be termed "3/4 sisters." They don't include "blood"
Correct don. But the 1/2 sisters you speak of are due to sharing the same mother not the same sire as you mentioned when you called Related and Sepoy 7/8 brothers. 
 
Ash, my post above was correcting Giggles re cataloguing -the previous post when I was referring to 3/4 and 7/8 relations was a matter of pure fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 7:29pm
On the relation topic. What relation to Black Caviar is the mare Belleluia    Bel Esprit/ Song of the Sun?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 3:30pm
Don you are right . Inglis's always used to use 3/4 brother in blood...but since Arion started doing their pedigrees it has stopped, which is a shame because it confuses the matter. By the way re my forum name which you decided to change. I have never been rude to anyone on this forum yet and I won't start now....so have a good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 6:07pm
Sorry about that Biggles -it was truly a continued mistake as I have grave difficulties with my eyesight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by don don wrote:

Sorry about that Biggles -it was truly a continued mistake as I have grave difficulties with my eyesight.
 
Amongst other things. 
 
But an opinionated young fella whose opinions are strangely sought by a few on the odd occasion. Tongue
It's hard to soar with eagles...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ENJOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 6:19am
Speed ..  Elusive Quality Stallion Sons

 Sepoy .Cautious Time. Cardinal  Virtue cross for speed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 10:49am
How has Sepoy gone so far ?

I have seen 3 very promising performances but can not recall any winners yet.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 11:18am
Another unplaced runner in the first at Kembla today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 7:39pm
A bit surprising. If I had the money I would of loved to have gone to him.

I know it is only early but thought he would be a very good sire.

The smart money might be on his half brother Mulazem at 1/12th roughly of Sepoy's service fee.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 10:49am
It's not even Christmas yet, give the horse a chance, bugger me the dynamics of what makes a successful stallion have changed over the last 10 years. He will still be a hot commodity come sale day.
current stable...Giuliani.
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'smart money???'... only if your accountant told you to negatively gear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 10:53am
Not a chance, ianb. If he hasn't had a winner from 10 starters come January his averages will be right down the toilet.

And I'm not saying he will be a bad sire - the fact is if he hasn't had at least some success before then the buyers will be gone in droves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 11:39am
Originally posted by whitt0 whitt0 wrote:

Another unplaced runner in the first at Kembla today.

I thought it was a run of real promise.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 1:02pm
  like this guys pedigree and not a bad run for a first starter in a Black type race. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Not a chance, ianb. If he hasn't had a winner from 10 starters come January his averages will be right down the toilet.

And I'm not saying he will be a bad sire - the fact is if he hasn't had at least some success before then the buyers will be gone in droves.
Agree.  The market massively overrates first season sires and is just as quick to drop off if they don't produce early 2yos.  This is no reflection on his quality as a sire.  It's a reflection on a very fickle buying bench. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 1:28pm
Not even halfway through the season yet. Plenty of time left to see how they measure up. Don't go jumping off the edge of the cliff just yet.
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