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    Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 6:31pm
I'm part owner of this horse and when I got this photo I saw something that I've seen in other horses and knew what it is but when I told the trainer he said he had never heard of it and I needed glasses and my partner laughed. so without telling you all what it is so I can't be accused of leading people to what I see could you please have a good look at the photo and tell me if you can see anything wrong with him. I am hoping I'm wrong though and others can't see anything too, it just means I'll have to go to spec savers.
thankyou



ZAMINGA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 6:57pm
Hello again v &m, long time no hear.

First a question and a comment ie:

how old is he, and please don't say it's about his feet.

Over to you and others.

ps photos do tell lies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:11pm
Can’t see anything out of the ordinary from the photo angle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:47pm
3 years old but the particular condition I see in him I have seen in another not much older than him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:48pm
yah its been a while, been busy :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 7:56pm
NH pastern swelling.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:11pm
NH as Gay says, It also looks longer and thickened, but may be the way the photo is taken. quite straight through Hind legs. Post Legged??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

NH pastern swelling.


he is still running trackwork and swimming so could he possibly have that and still be going well in those activities?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by v and m v and m wrote:

Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

NH pastern swelling.


he is still running trackwork and swimming so could he possibly have that and still be going well in those activities?
 
Yes if its an old injury or condition that he's lived with and it doesn't worry him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:28pm
All I see then, is a nicely enough conformed horse! Pity about the boots tho', I hate them with a passion as they cause more problems than they'll ever prevent & shouldn't be necessary with correctly balanced feet.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:36pm
Maybe angle of forelegs to shoulder, maybe lack of hindquarter, but those possibilities along with the earlier mentioned pastern would be understood by the trainer.

So it's presumably something more obscure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 8:40pm
hope you guys are right about the NH swelling and its not something more serious. hopefully he doesn't go lame again when racing.
also he has always had those boots on in training and never had any problems with his front legs so...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 9:59pm
I think he may have a developing ringbone problem in that n/h, he's quite straight in the hocks , not a fan of boots either unless bandaged under them, sand build up can cause chaffing which can lead to infection .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

I think he may have a developing ringbone problem in that n/h, he's quite straight in the hocks , not a fan of boots either unless bandaged under them, sand build up can cause chaffing which can lead to infection .


that's actually what I was thinking when I saw it :S
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2019 at 11:38pm
The n/h swelling and possible developing ringbone is what jumped out at me  v & m ... and add me to the list of boot haters too.    
JMO but  no good will come from leaving them on a second too long





suck it up ... Life isn't run at w.f.a. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 12:58am
Also agree as above about swelling and potential ringbone on near hind pastern.
"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 8:39am
Ringbone manifests along the coronet band but a vet would probably be the one to say.
 
The bandage boots thing I agree with Gay, unless the horse is awkward in its movement, thus hitting its own tendons in work then I wouldn't use them, the heat caused by them in work can degrade the structure of the fibres in the tendon sheath, therefore weakening them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 3:55pm
thanks everyone for your input. we'll see how he goes and I'll question the trainer about the boots.
ZAMINGA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 8:51pm
Whilst some very good judges have identified the near hind as a problem it's perhaps important to remember that photos of white pasterns/joints can sometimes give a false impression.

And even if the comments are indeed correct, which is very possible, I don't really believe they were the actual focus of V & M's concerns.

Tick, tick....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 10:24pm
just to give some background history. he was given corrective farrier work on that hoof because he toed out.

he was going really well in trackwork when he had his first prep but then he had to get gelded. got an infection from it, had to be rested in the stable which he didn't seem to like because his behaviour got a lot worst (kicking and biting people, broke his handler's finger) and some of us thought he needed to go out for a spell but trainer persisted with him and so he resumed normal work.
he calmed down and seemed a lot happier being able to go for a run and got a lot better after 2 barrier trials.
We then sent him out for a spell and he spent the first week mostly laying down in the paddock (growth spurt).
came back 6 weeks later I think and showing good signs of having gotten better but then about a week before putting him in his 2nd race his trackworker said there was something wrong, he wasn't extending like before but when trainer checked him over he could find nothing so he kept going with him. Entered him in a race and he ended up going lame. Vet checked him, gave him a radiogragh and swelling noted in LH pastern but vet said nothing else.
he was treated for it and then raced again when he was given vet clearance. He went lame again and vet looked him over again and this is the report:

Confirming that I examined him following a poor performance the week prior. He had previously been lame left hind and had his left hind pastern joint xrayed and injected.

He wasn’t lame when examined, and no abnormalities were noted on endoscope or cardiac examination.

While this doesn’t give a reason for his poor performance, I would still be suspicious of it being because of the left hind pastern, given the nature of his xray changes.


Nothing else was said so it left us scratching our heads.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2019 at 11:58pm
Some obscure reasons for lameness
cracked pedal bone, which can take time to show on xray, the horse can be lame on different surfaces eg lame in sand but not on firm
abcess in the bone, fetlock a "common" area, literally a hole in the bone, end of racing career. Cant remember the term for it.
a gas in the hoof wall moving down, therefore intermittently lame. Will mean a large area of hoof wall to be parred away to release bad area.

 Getting the "right" vet and farrier will be the key. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:09am
Bone cyst
Most joint disease in the horse is as a result of wear and tear but there are a few conditions that have a definite cause such as chip fractures and osteochondrosis. Another relatively common cause of joint disease occurs following the development of a bone cyst (or, correctly speaking, an osseous cyst-like lesion).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:17am
The "swelling" in the bone you can see is probably a result of new bone being laid down as a result of changed dynamics eg new farrier work and the bones reaction to that and the underlying cause of the lameness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:24am
“What causes the pain isn't just the inflammation, but the physical accumulation of pus and often gas, if it's anaerobic bacteria, inside the hoof capsule. It can do a lot of damage to the hoof capsule and the hoof wall if they're not able to get the pus out and drain the abscess where you can treat it directly.”Sep 26, 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:31am
"Last year I nearly had one of my horses PTS as he had been lame for over 5 months on first one leg then the other and nothing was helping, vet couldn't make him react to hoof testers and nothing found on X-ray. I poulticed for weeks: nothing. Bute: nothing. Finally an abscess broke out at the heel, but still very lame 2 weeks on, so 2nd, braver, vet dug a HUGE hole in the sole of the OTHER hoof and found horrible, black, nasty gunk. More poulticing, nappying, etc. and now.......I have a completely sound horse! So hang in there and be prepared for the long haul. I would never have thought that a horse could be so lame for so long with such a simple cause, nor that both front feet could be affected. Poor little man; he's very stoic.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/longest-abscess-experiences-please.689527/#xstAhbsMFZ11H1DP.99"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Some obscure reasons for lameness
cracked pedal bone, which can take time to show on xray, the horse can be lame on different surfaces eg lame in sand but not on firm
abcess in the bone, fetlock a "common" area, literally a hole in the bone, end of racing career. Cant remember the term for it.
a gas in the hoof wall moving down, therefore intermittently lame. Will mean a large area of hoof wall to be parred away to release bad area.

 Getting the "right" vet and farrier will be the key. 




that's a possibility since when he started going bad was when track got wet and both times he got lame was on a slow track.
thanks for all the possible reasons, its given me plenty to think about, maybe too much
ZAMINGA
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