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Savage/Mad/Bad Stallions

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Pharbine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pharbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2009 at 11:27am
Noalcoholic was a too savage as a stallion. I heard he was put down because he was too savage
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Prairie Bayou View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2009 at 7:55pm
Just want to clear things up about some of the posts about Dynaformer. They do keep him in a stall with bars BUT all of the stalls are that way. He is very aggressive and is not shown on the general fan tour that Three Chimneys does not just because of his temperament but because the tour is for fans mostly and honestly, not many of the Joe Public want to see him but they would much rather see Smarty Jones. He's also too valuable to have out and get wired and become injured. Given his ways it's best he stays where he is. But if you are a breeder and request to see him they will show him. Breeders are treated differently. I was once on a tour and we did go out to the paddock areas and Dynaformer was released into his paddock while we were standing by the fence. He came galloping across the field toward us (about 20 people) and the lady giving the tour told us to not go anywhere near that fenceline. So we stayed walking along with Smarty Jones until we were clear Dynaformer's paddock. He is not to be trusted and has bitten off fingers. That was told to me by his groom on a different tour (we were there as breeders to see another stallion). For the most part, Dynaformers can be aggressive. They certainly are mentally tough. Sanna Hendricks who trained McDynamo said he had a strong personality but was not mean. Film Maker was known to have nasty tendencies and from what I gather Barbaro was not aggressive but strong willed.  So you were basically throwing the dice with him. They are however durable and for the most part sound.

One horse here that was known to be psychotic was Halo. I've spent a great deal of time at Stone Farm where he stood and the stallion manager told us a story about him. He had a man come to visit Halo and the man was African American. As they talked the stallion manager had to take a phone call and told the man not to put his hands inside the stall at and to stay clear of the door until he returned. Well, he did not listen to him and as he was in the office on the phone he heard a loud bang and screaming. Halo took the doors off the the stall and was trying to savage the man who had fallen over in trying to back away from the stall. Apparently he went to try and pet him when he came up to the door and Halo went for him. Lucky for the man he walked away with minor injuries. Apparently according to the groom at Stone, Halo's groom at the track was African American and used to use the rake to keep him at bay. He grew a distaste for African Americans and was not shown to anyone after that who happened to be black. When he was at Northview he was known to drown and kill birds. He killed several that were found in his water bucket.  Apparently that also transferred to KY because the groom there told me he found a few dead ones as well. From most of the people I know who have had and worked with them, Halo threw very tough horses and some were aggressive like him. Sunday Silence was known to not be so nice as a young horse.

Lane's End had the stallion Silver Ghost for quite a while before he was pensioned.  It took two grooms to walk him to the stallion barn and they carried baseball bats with them when the did. He was known to be a savage and very territorial. One year we went to look at Wando to be a possibility for a mare and the groom there told us a story of tour group he had that one woman decided to climb Silver Ghost's fenceline as he was showing another stallion to get a photo of him. Well, SG saw her from a distance and he was hightailing it over to the fence when he screamed at her to get down and back away. She obliged in time because he almost went through the fence at her. Silver Ghost had recently been pensioned by the time we went that year and I believe he said he was headed to Texas (he mentioned the state but I'm not 100% on it) to live out his life. No one there wanted to mess with him. His foals are said to be very tough and some not so nice.

One horse that is not mentioned here is Seeking The Gold. He is not a nutcase but is aggressive and has been known to be a brute and pass that on to his foals. The stallion manager at Claiborne basically said they never turned their back on him and he was tricky to bring in from the paddock. They only showed him to breeders not on the tour.

Another story the groom at Claiborne told us is a tale about Danzig. He was blind in one eye and though he was not described as crazy he did almost kill his groom who is now the stallion manager at Claiborne. He went to get him one afternoon and Danzig was at the far end and would not come so he walked out to get him and he said he was 1/2 way across the pasture when he turned and ran full force at him. Thankfully he thought to duck to his blind side (he was blind in one eye after getting a splinter in his eye while trying to remove his halter) and he went past him. The man jumped the fence to avoid him and went back around to get him from the paddock by the gate. He said he would have run over him if he had sight in that eye but he couldn't see from that side so it gave him time to get the hell out of there. He was laughing when he told it but he said he never went in his paddock again. If he came in he came in... LOLOLOL He did say that Unbridled was super sweet and a very gentle stallion that you could do anything with. Ribot on the other hand was known to try and mount trees. He did said the horse was certifiably crazy and you could not trust him at all.

While I have no stories on them, a groom at Ashford said that Storm Bird and Woodman both had bad tempers and were tough to get along with.  Waquoit was known to be difficult to handle from a friend of mine who photographs stallions for them. She knows some more on that but I honestly can't remember the situations. Most of the stories I have are from KY and talking with grooms at some of the farms we went to inquire about breeding options for the next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote La Pez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2009 at 8:28pm
I was under the impression that Halo stallions were high strung, very studdish.

I believe part of Ribot's problem was that he had a brain tumor, or something to that effect. I seem to remember reading that somewhere . . .

Storm Bird/Storm Cat stallions have a reputation for being willful, moody, and high strung. Tabasco Cat was a killer and Birdstone is supposed to be a biter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sm designs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 12:26pm

Was it Ribot that was very aggressive that was written about by Monty Roberts?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 3:34pm
I can't recall if Monty wrote about Ribot. He may have. It's been so long since I've read the book. Birdstone is by Grindstone who is by Unbridled. Storm Bird is on his dam's side. We went to look at him the first year he was at stud and honestly, the woman I went with is kicking herself for not breeding to him. Now I'm sure he won't be $10,000 in 2010. But hindsight is 20/20. He may be a biter I don't know that for sure but sometimes they do change once they start breeding. It also depends on the farm staff and how they are treated. When he was shown to us he seemed very relaxed and the handler wasn't watching him like a hawk or anything like that. On the other hand, it was his first year and he seemed pretty mellow. We did go and visit Overbrook (not as breeders) and his sire Grindstone was kind of aloof. He just wasn't thrilled with people. He seemed more playful than anything and the groom tried to get him to show him off but he was bored with us. So I would imagine if he were a nutcase he wouldn't have tried getting him just for a bunch of fans. At least when we were shown Birdstone the groom said he's just like any other stallion and I would imagine a normal stallion would bite if he wanted too.

The first year I went to KY I was just on vacation so most of the time at the farms was just as a tourist. The one farm that allowed visits and pretty much let us walk around was Walmac. A girl in the group went to see Minardi who had his head over the fence and she wasn't paying attention and really nailed her in the arm. It was purple for quite a while and ripped her sleeve. She admitted it was her own fault and honestly, kind of stupid to go up to a stallion you don't know and try to love on it. Or any horse for that matter. Toussaud was wacko and all of her foals were taken from her once they were born. Empire Maker certainly took after his sire and the man we spoke with at Juddmonte allowed us to pet and feed him treats as much as we wanted. He said he's not a biter but a licker. LOLOL I guess he takes after his sire more than his dam in that case.

One guy I talked to went to visit Storm Cat and how he got in there to do that without knowing someone or as a breeder is confusing because they are like Fort Knox. Anyway, He wanted to give Storm Cat a hug and when the groom told him he couldn't hug him he became outraged at it. He went on and on about how farms should bow down to fans and the like. I just rolled my eyes and held back on calling him a fruit loop. After all it's their $500,000 stallion (his rate at the time) that he wanted to hug and would probably have ended up as a door mat had he done so. Storm Cat wasn't known as vicious but he was a stallion and they do act like them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by La Pez La Pez wrote:

I was under the impression that Halo stallions were high strung, very studdish.

I believe part of Ribot's problem was that he had a brain tumor, or something to that effect. I seem to remember reading that somewhere . . .

Storm Bird/Storm Cat stallions have a reputation for being willful, moody, and high strung. Tabasco Cat was a killer and Birdstone is supposed to be a biter.


I didn't know Ribo had a tumor. Well, that would explain things a lot. Tumors can make you nutty. Of course that's cold comfort for the people. Shocked

All the Halo's that I've heard about from people that have owned or worked with one said that they are high strung and difficult. I guess strong willed would be a good term but I can imagine that that can be downright awful if it's a colt.

As for people who have worked with some Storm Cats the same thing is told. They are very willful and moody like you said. Tabasco Cat almost killed D. Wayne's son when he ran him over after getting loose. I don't know if he was over aggressive and tried to kill anyone else, but a loose horse no matter the temperament could kill someone if they didn't get out of the way. Jeff was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's sad because he never really recovered from that and is no longer in the Thoroughbred industry. He was one hell of a horseman and if he hadn't become injured I would imagine he would have been one of the top ones in the industry by now. There are a handfull of trainers that have topped our list that have come out of D. Wayne's barn as assistant trainers. He knew how to and still does run a tight ship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote La Pez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 4:29pm
I think Birdstone is a valuable stallion, but he has often been described as "fiesty". I pretty much wrote it off to "small man's disease", the way he was treated, and the Storm Bird in him. I don't think anyone would be cheery if they ran a race and then were denied water and had beer cans thrown at them.

I have heard that Unbridled was a sweetheart, and I understand his rival Summer Squall, despite being by Storm Bird, was also very sweet -- but then again I read Weekend Surprise was a doll and she may have mellowed out the aggression there.

I have surmised that over- aggression is only a problem in Storm Bird stallions if they are mishandled or if the damline adds to the problem.

Doesn't change the fact that Storm Bird had a reputation for being aggressive/territorial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 5:20pm
I can say that Summer Squall was a very good horse. One girl in the group we were in (ironically the same one that was bitten by Minardi) was a fan of Charismatic and asked to see him at Lane's End. Because we talked the groom's ear off for almost 30 minutes he showed him even though at that time he was pensioned and wasn't on the tour. He was happy to pull him out and even said he wasn't any problem. The only one besides Silver Ghost that was mentioned as being bad was Parade Ground and he was shipped out to another farm by the time we went there. He didn't elaborate on him but simply said he had an awful temperament. I've heard people say Kingmambo is difficult as well, but that is something I read online and not something that I heard directly from someone at the farm. The grooms at Lanes End were very cordial everytime I have gone there. Either for business or just as a fan. They love to share stories and show off their horses when they can. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 8:32pm
If you happen geld a Horse at around 5-7 years plus,   how much of a temp change can you expect.?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 8:33pm
P Bayou
That was very interesting !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote La Pez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 7:29pm
It really depends on the animal. Some horses, when gelded, improve greatly as far as temperament is concerned and others just continue to be basketcases. I think it has a lot to do with the origins of the problem. Some horses are just high strung or crazy -- gelding will probably not fix that. But if they are having trouble focusing, or are difficult to manage because of "studdish" behavior, gelding can work wonders. What's most difficult is figuring out if the horse is distracted because of sex drive or because he has "head issues".

I've known horses that have improved by miles when gelded and some that kept on being as unmanageable and loopy as they were before.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 7:46pm
Thanks LP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 9:06pm
Sometimes gelding helps and sometimes not. I know that John Henry was gelded due to his temperament and it did not change anything. He was a vicious horse to be around during his racing days and a long time afterward he was always a horse to never turn your back on. He dragged his groom by the shoulder through the shedrow once while he was cooling out and there are a 100 stories that people have told about him and his behavior. Interestingly it did not mellow too much over the years. At the KY Horse Park he was known as a biter and everyone I've met that dealt with him had been nipped by him at one time or another. A funny thing about JH though was that he liked to watch birds. The grooms at the KHP told us that he would watch the ones that nested in the barn area. He never tried to kill any of them like Halo. I guess he left that for the humans in the barn. LOLOLOL We saw him one year when his former trainer Ron McAnally stopped by to visit. He happily posed for a photo with John but didn't want to stand too long next to him because of his demeanor. Here is a few pics I managed to get while he visited.

http://finalturngallery.com/g2/main.php/v/ALLIS-ART/album394/JohnHenry/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 8:06pm
That link didn't work for me PB Smile
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prairie Bayou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

That link didn't work for me PB Smile


Sorry. I didn't post it in the right way. The way I did it you have to copy and paste it. This one should work.

http://finalturngallery.com/g2/main.php/v/ALLIS-ART/album394/JohnHenry/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 8:43pm
Yes, I had copy/pasted, to no avail but thanks for the fresh link. The old boy looked to have been recovering from a nice old case of 'rain scald' or similar skin fungal! What a great shoulder he had but those eyes were giving a hint that he'd just about had enough I reckon. Great horse & story, especially the rehab one when he wouldn't break from the gates.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 8:46pm
great site pb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote On The Range Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

We seem to have sidetracked a little but continuing the line it appears to have taken, I reckon MC threw a bit of everything from what I've seen. Certainly didn't dominate his mares in terms of type or colour. Our bloke is a very plain bay, tanky, about 15.3 & without doubt the most intelligent/knowing/tough gelding I've come across. He's out of a Dolphin Street mare & I've always assumed he's thrown to that stallion as there's no resemblance type or colourwise to his Dad. He's presently got $15k+ in the bank but just can't win one - not that I mind, maiden placings pay the same but are easier to acquire than those i the next grade up Wink
 

Interesting. The MC I bred years ago (from a brown mare) was a small but strong chestnut with a white face and white socks, just like his dad. He had a great temperament and good feet. He also managed to win a few and $24,000.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Botanica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 9:07am
gee guys he looks pretty quiet to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 6:15am

Just found out about this site and found this thread really interesting, thought I would share a couple of stories.

A lot of the stallions mentioned I have heard about, the one I know of here in NZ that was especially vicious (not blown out of proportion like Sir T) was Sackford. 2 people I know well, both stud managers in NZ who worked at Ra Ora when he stood there have quite large bits of there arms missing, one was held up on the wall of the box by the forearm and had to plunge his fingers into his eye to get him to drop him, the other guy was similar incident. Sackford had to be muzzled and I understand they shot him when he moved to Oz as he was a danger to people. Another was Mughtanim, he savaged the studmaster and another time a friend of mine went to rescue the stallion man from underneath him in the paddock and Mughtanim got them both, tore this guys arm up and nearly killed them both.
 
Makes you wary when handling the stallions not to be too complacent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote early4lunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2010 at 10:46am
I heard a story attributed to the late Cyril Beechey, a good man with a horse. He said that a vicious and dangerous stallion can be reformed if you put him in a paddock with a sour old mare that refuses to be served.She will kick the crap out of him.Obviously not something to do flippantly will a valuable entire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yippyio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

People tell me fu pegs are mad..............


I heard this too but I'm not surprised though. I remembered years ago watching Fu Peg on ESPN, he was on the training track a week or 2 before the Kentucky Derby. He purposely fell on his side with the jockey on board to dump him!! No BS.

It seems he has passed this craziness  to his offspring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 8:55pm
have a look at the video's on you tube of northern dancer, there are 3 in the "set" and they are worth viewing, there is one part of nd out in his paddock with 3 handlers standing by for when HE was ready to get caught and return to his box, if anyone went near him b4 he was ready he would chase them, and then when he was ready to come in he would rear  up in the air and bellow out and then stand as quiet as a lamb and be caugght and led in like an old cart horse
when he was racing and just after he won the kentucky derby, he chased his trainer horatio luro out of his box and minutes later winifred taylor (ep taylors wife) arrived with a little blind boy who wanted to meet northern dancer, when nd heard mrs taylors voice he walked up to the stable door and put is haed out to check the blind boy out and just stood there virtually drooling as the blind boy stroked and rubbed and felt northern dancers head
mrs tayloralso used to go in his box alone with him and one day to the grooms horror northern dancer took hold of her bythe wrist and took her for a "tour" of his box at the conclusion of which he returned her to the door and let go of her wrist, he iis know for being  as quiet as a lamb when mrs taylor came to visit him
dont put mouth in gear before engaging brain

www.ozisafety.com.au
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 9:27pm
We had Taimazov here and I have never encountered a stranger stallion in my life, each day was a learning curve with him, he resented being caught even when you were going to bred a mare with him, but the second you walked out of the box he was great, well 90% of the time anyway.  If he didn't like you or you did not stand UP to him he would bite you or rip your shirt off, strike you or head butt you.  He once grabbed me on the arm and lifted me clean off the ground, and I only tip the scales at around the 100kg, I did see him pick up a little Japanese man by the shoulder  and throw him 10 feet just because he wasn't giving him his undevided attention.  The story that is coming out of the Phillipines where he now rests is that he has been put down after killing a stallion handler over there, his attitude problems I believe were not man made but just the horse who reminded me of those olympic games sprinters with all that nervous energy waiting to get out.
current stable...Giuliani.
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