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Roman Son

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robbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 1:37pm
Is Roman Son any chance of turning up in the Doomben Cup on Saturday? With Gailo Chop out it looks to be very thin on paper (Ambitious is the favourite) and he would go in with great form credentials, albeit up in class. The BM 85 at Rosehill looks very winnable as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 1:47pm
Totally agree but i think it's slim to none.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 5:06pm
Here's the answer - courtesy of punters.com.au


Freedman sticks to original plan with promising stayer Roman Son
By Isaac Ling 28 minutes ago
Roman Son has won his past two startsImage: Bradley Photos
Richard Freedman believes Roman Son will eventually become a Group One horse but the Rosehill-based trainer is unlikely to rush the gelding into the top grade for Saturday's Doomben Cup (2000m).

Freedman has weighed up taking the promising stayer north for the Brisbane feature, which has been weakened by the withdrawal of Gailo Chop due to injury, but instead is set to keep him at home for a Benchmark 85 Handicap (2000m) at Rosehill.

“I’ve considered it but I think we should stick with our original plan, which is to go around on Saturday in the Benchmark 85," Freedman told Punters.com.au.


“I can’t secure a jockey that suits me for the Doomben Cup. Most of the riders that my owners will accept are already booked for other horses or not going. [They're] Either staying in Sydney or going to Adelaide.

“I’m a little bit hamstrung there and I just tend to think he’s got next year to run in a race like that. This year he’s probably not experienced enough to beat those weight-for-age horses. If it was a handicap I’d be going.”
“I think he’s eventually going to make that level. He’s got a few issues that need to be managed, soundness-wise and things like that. So that’s why I’m hesitant to push him too fast too quick."

Blake Shinn has been booked to ride the lightly-raced gelding at Rosehill, where he will chase a third straight win.

While the Doomben Cup appears off the agenda, a trip to the winter carnival is still on the cards, with June's Group Two Brisbane Cup (2200m) a likely assignment if all goes to plan on Saturday.

"If he runs well, we’ll go to the Brisbane Cup. If he doesn’t run well then we’ll probably go to the paddock. But I think he probably will run well," Freedman said.

The son of Roman Emperor has won five of his 12 starts to date and was most recently seen winning last month's Provinical Stayer's Handicap (2100m) by 2.22L at Hawkesbury.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 5:16pm
Smart programming imo. WFA G1 would be a bridge too far at this stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Smart programming imo. WFA G1 would be a bridge too far at this stage.

Yes I agree 3bm, the handicap conditions of the Brisbane cup would be a far better option for this horse horse, if he were to go to the WFA race and win he would pay the penalty for the rest of his career, I think the trainer is awake to this as well, there is plenty of time for these plans in the future re WFA if the horse shows such ability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 8:50pm
$2.10 = gift Hug.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:12am
I love how careful and precise Freedman is with the placement of this horse. That's the most important aspect of being a good trainer. Placing horses in races they can win. Alot of trainers would go straight into the deep end.

Looks a good thing again. Anchor for the weekend multi's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 7:45am
I agree, MJB. The owner experience is far better if you can get the horse winning multiple races in a prep, and the horse just grows in confidence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:57am
Unlike Ollerton and Royal Tudor for example - a horse with far more ability than the trainer extracts. Can only think the owners are good friends of his. 

Worth watching this horse at his next start over say 1400m. If you check his form you'll see why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:16am
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Unlike Ollerton and Royal Tudor for example - a horse with far more ability than the trainer extracts. Can only think the owners are good friends of his. 

Worth watching this horse at his next start over say 1400m. If you check his form you'll see why.

You'll have to point out the error please.

He has had 38 starts and as far as I can tell he ran through the grades and is now running in Country Cups.

The Japanese, Europeans and North Americans generally quickly establish the class of their inmate, I do not think it should take much more than a half dozen starts to realise they have a blacktype horse in their yard.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:27am
The clue was in my, and MJB's posts djebel. And his form.

Ollerton's not on his pat of course. Robbie and So Si Bon was arguably worse. There are many more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:54am
I actually think you are both wrongish.

There was very little wrong or poor about So Si Bons first real campaign. Very few genuine Victoria Derby horses race through their grades so to speak, they are quickly from maiden company to black type. Ace High was running in listed and group company before he had won his maiden, Prized Icon was the same, He broke his maiden at listed level. So Si Bon may have failed to win but he was showing outstanding form.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:26pm
MJB was merely generalising, he said nothing about RT or SSB djebel. Imo SSB's placement under Laing was an exemplar of what he said so blame me Embarrassed. Perhaps Robbie was training him for nix.

Trainers can obviously be excused in the early days as they work out their charges but beyond that crossing fingers and toes, shutting eyes and hoping for the best is no substitute for intelligent placement.

Sunline's comment picks up most of the reasons. 

Placement is NOT just about class. It's also about distances. In te end poor SSB didn't know what he was supposed to be. Little wonder he got angry LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:54pm
I was referring to winnable races. Everyone wants to win right? Too many times trainers place horses in races they won't be competitive in. It's a waste of a run.

Royal Tudor is a good shout.

Another from a few years ago - Mister Milton. Trained by Norman Waymouth. Only had 2 wins from 49 starts but if you go through it's form it spent most of it's career in black type races. Ran 3rd to Mosheen in an Australian Guineas. Probably deserved 2nd in light of recent events?

You should be winning early days and accumulating prize money. Then when your rating is too high then go onto the good races. As Sunline said, builds confidence. The horse is used to winning.

Old boy Norm went straight into the deep end and as a result his horse had a terrible strike rate. His little horse was quite talented but needed to be down a grade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:51pm
Royal Tudor has very good ability. He may have issues - only excuse I can think of - but his "roi" hasn't been helped by placement, or a couple of rides for that matter. He's not a miler, nor is he up to Group level without the confidence of leading his species home on a regular basis. His Tamworth Cup placement was a good example. 60kgs against a very solid field of in form horses. Then a mile on the huge Scone track 3-0-0-0. But.....be aware of what he did after the 2017 Scone Cup flop.

To make this post relevant, Roman Son's bro goes around at Newcastle on Sat and looks the goods. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:42pm

To make this post relevant, Roman Son's bro goes around at Newcastle on Sat and looks the goods. LOL
[/QUOTE]

Still in the Queensland Derby and the form through Nothing Too Hard looks OK given how well he raced at Doomben last week. As does the Play It For Me form. Agree should be winning Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:23pm
Just noticed that Porky Pies (finished 3rd behind NTH and Britannicus) won today at Kembla, further franking the form.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 2:10pm
A true staying event found him out today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 2:17pm
TOM'S SPECIAL ...    FLOP     
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 2:31pm
Yeah it's amazing how pressure sorts them out. No excuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 3:30pm
His brother bolted in at Newcastle though. Never in doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 7:12pm
Big fan of this horse but wasn't on him today like last time at Hawkesbury.

The 60.5kg and strong pace undid him today and was a bit exposed with the ride.

Can still win a good race with a good smother and moderate pace where the turn of foot can win you the race.
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