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Race Upgrades

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Speediskey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:37pm
From Breednet:

Australia's Pattern and Development Committee and the board of Racing Australia have upgraded the black-type status of eight races including two up to Group I level.
"The Racing Australia Pattern and Development Committee apply international criteria in determining black type status to ensure consistency and credibility both domestically and internationally," the press release read.

The weight-for-age Warwick Stakes (1400m), won the past two years by Winx, and the three-year-old fillies' Surround Stakes (1400m) during the autumn, will rise from Group II to Group I level in 2018.

Other upgrades are.



Sheraco Stakes (ATC) be upgraded to Group II from Group III
Breeders' Plate (ATC) be upgraded to Group III from Listed
Gimcrack Stakes (ATC) be upgraded to Group III from Listed
Premier's Cup (ATC) be upgraded to Group III from Listed
Northam Sprint (Northam Race Club) be upgraded to Group III from Listed
Hawkesbury Gold Rush (Hawkesbury Race Club) be upgraded to Listed


"In addition to approving the eight upgrades, Racing Australia also agreed to the Racing Australia Pattern and Development Committee's recommendation to place a moratorium on any downgrade of Pattern Races run at a distance of 2400 meters and up, the press release said.

"This means these races will not be subject to downgrade (unless voluntarily) for 4 years (from 2016/17—2019/20) when the position will be reviewed."
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TOLEDO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TOLEDO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:43pm
What a joke the Surround Stakes Group 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by TOLEDO TOLEDO wrote:

What a joke the Surround Stakes Group 1


Both upgrades seem stupid to me. The only changes I agree with are Breeders Plate/Gimcrack as those races are generally very high quality
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 12:04am
The Breeders Plate and Gimcrack are basically maiden races. There should be no black type 2yo racing before Christmas.

The Warwick Stakes is like the group 1 1400 races in Victoria, barrier trial races.


I'll have a closer look at the Surround before criticising that upgrade.

There is a case for a 2yo fillies race being upgraded to group 1.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 11:15am
The Warwick Stakes makes sense on the basis that the Memsie is Group 1. But its questionable whether either deserve Group 1 status.

The Surround Stakes makes no sense - it's a leadup race to either the Coolmore or, for Fillies on an Oaks path the Keith Nolan at Kembla. This year was worth only $200K. The 3 placegetters from this years race are a combined 0/9 since.

3 yr Fillies in the Autumn can now go Surround (Grp 1) Coolmore (Grp 1) Vinery Stud (another questionable Grp 1) before reaching the Oaks.

To date in 2017, there are only 2 countries in the racing world who have ran 30 or more Grp 1's - the US, and Australia (54). That's more than England and France combined. And we still have our greatest month of racing to come.

I give it 3 years before The Hotham is a upgraded to Listed level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 11:30am
Pretty sure that now gives us more Group 1s than England, Ireland and France combined. Woo-hoo!! Aussie, Aussie, Aussie....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 11:37am
England and France together only have had 9000 flat races so far this season - probably around 10000 flat races by the end of the season.  Ireland is sitting on 975.  We sit on about 19000 to 20000 races a year.  So we are well below the 38000 races run in the USA.

So yes we are well behind the 110 G1's in the USA (.3%) of their races.  Ours sits about .4%.  New Zealand sits on .77% G1 to races.  France sits on .6%,  GB sits on .6% and Ireland sits on 1.1%.

The Surround is over 1400m and there are 9 G1's over that distance including the Golden Rose for 3yo colts.  Possible they are trying to bring the fillies in line with a G1 over that distance.  1400m is a different race to a 1600m, 2000m or 2400-2500m where we find their other G1 races. 

I don't think the everest is on their radar at the moment.  If we keep getting the field they got this year who knows but it still has to prove itself.  That's just the way it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 11:55am
Why is there a moratorium on staying races? I like them as much as anyone, and would obviously prefer them to be G1, but the idea of not assessing them as other races are seems to bring the whole system into disrepute. The ones on the chopping block would have been the Sydney ones, while they happily dropped the Perth/Adelaide/Brisbane ones.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 12:00pm
Because our sprint or mile races usually are stronger than the staying races they have been dropping the grade of some of the staying races.  But for our racing and breeding to stay strong you need both sprinters and stayers.  Our quality sprinters have high class staying lines imbedded in their pedigrees and the stayers need the sprinters also to stop them becoming one pace grinders.  They are trying to keep the staying races viable for classer horses even if the trainer import them all sooner or later a David Hayes or of his like will find another High Chaparral who can sire stayers in Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

England and France together only have had 9000 flat races so far this season - probably around 10000 flat races by the end of the season.  Ireland is sitting on 975.  We sit on about 19000 to 20000 races a year.  So we are well below the 38000 races run in the USA.<div id="UMS_TOOLTIP" style=": ; cursor: pointer; : 2147483647; : transparent; top: -100000px; left: -100000px;">

So yes we are well behind the 110 G1's in the USA (.3%) of their races.  Ours sits about .4%.  New Zealand sits on .77% G1 to races.  France sits on .6%,  GB sits on .6% and Ireland sits on 1.1%.

The Surround is over 1400m and there are 9 G1's over that distance including the Golden Rose for 3yo colts.  Possible they are trying to bring the fillies in line with a G1 over that distance.  1400m is a different race to a 1600m, 2000m or 2400-2500m where we find their other G1 races. 

I don't think the everest is on their radar at the moment.  If we keep getting the field they got this year who knows but it still has to prove itself.  That's just the way it goes.


Alas as it seems we increasingly have to import good horses, quantity most definitely doesn’t equate with quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Because our sprint or mile races usually are stronger than the staying races they have been dropping the grade of some of the staying races.  But for our racing and breeding to stay strong you need both sprinters and stayers.  Our quality sprinters have high class staying lines imbedded in their pedigrees and the stayers need the sprinters also to stop them becoming one pace grinders.  They are trying to keep the staying races viable for classer horses even if the trainer import them all sooner or later a David Hayes or of his like will find another High Chaparral who can sire stayers in Australia.

What's the point of the system then if you are going to make so many exceptions... some races will be assessed on quality, and these ones will just be kept G1 because we want more stayers? You end up undermining the whole thing. The Sydney Cup, Metrop are embarrassing fields for G1 races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 12:24pm
The Surround ??? What a joke!  Is Messara still on that panel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 1:13pm
Interesting stats furious, puts it into perspective. Thanks.
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