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PROPER HORSES

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Glencoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PROPER HORSES
    Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 9:22pm
Angry
One has to worry about Australian Breeding when people who have an opportunity to positively shape the industry decry the virtue of racing a "proper horse" in the VRC derby
And yet "industry shapers" have no compunction in quickly retiring underraced, overpriced, physically suspect, mentally suspect and unproven in open grade ,young stallions ,so that they can fill their coffers in the first two years. and collectively assist in downgrading the Australian breed.
 
Take note of the beatups and B/S on some sites as current young 2 & 3 Yo's are discussed in a price inflating manner
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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 9:59pm
Fully agree. I started worrying about this 15 years ago and am probably beyond concerned. We have seemingly reached point of no return as it is like someone progressively becoming addicted to their drug of choice.
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JudgeHolden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 10:03pm
The Australian thoroughbred has been driven off a cliff. They used to send B grade stayers to beat us. Now they’re sending down any old B grade horse. Or rather, our trainers are doing it for them, sourcing all their decent cattle from overseas. We used to win Japan Cups.

Probably sounding repetitive here, but we need to be honest about this. Our horses are crap.
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Glencoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 11:22pm
And in reverse any colt with promise hot foots it to H.K.
 
Once upon a time stallions were imported for their bloodlines. Now we clamour for an Ozbred with a sniff of. black type
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 9:08am
The real horses are there though and think about it.  Coolmore, Darley, Arrowfield, Newhaven and many more have bought out plenty of multiple G1 winners which just haven't produced to our mares.  In the past we bought out the syblings or relatives of the greats.  Today we can bring out the greats - unless your a Frankel etc.  And plenty of breeders have sent mares overseas to him or Deep Impact etc.

Yes I agree they are retiring them too early.  I would of loved to see The Autumn Sun go round in the Golden Eagle and he might have if his sire hadn't died!  But we have to very good ones in Brutal (still a colt) and Arcadia Queen.  With Classique Legend also showing he could be a miler waiting in the wings.

Brutal decends from the same Juliet line that So You Think, She Will Reign, Catchy, Impending etc all come from.  

Don't be so down.  Hopefully races like the golden eagle will help stem the flow...  Also it would be good if owners like the Winx crew got a colt.  The Inghams raced their colts Octagonal and Lonhro on.

We probably are closing on a changing of the guard.  So things will change.  But don't forget we have So You Think, Pierro and Dundeel already firing and giving miler to middle distance types.  Not everything is so black.
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JudgeHolden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 9:19am
The Autumn Sun peaked as a Spring 3yo. By the time he retired he was falling in against hacks. Which is one of the reason I assume he was retired. Our Derby winners on Saturday went as you might expect. It’s a dismal crop, but that seems to be increasingly the norm.

I admire your optimism furious, but you’ve well and truly got the blinkers on here.
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 9:20am
We have the proper horses.

We do not have proper trainers.





reductio ad absurdum



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brave_ponies View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brave_ponies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 12:36pm
Yes yes yes (and that could be a pun) - well said Glencoe!
I despair at this very issue of sending 'colts' to stud.
Short of a performance-based grading system like they have for the Dutch Warmbloods (which does have its flaws, fashions and is possibly corrupt) - ie the racetrack??!!! - the future looks grim.
But having angsted over this - the ponies have a simple solution! NO BREEDING OF ENTIRES LESS THAN 5YO. (In caps and all)
So you're either half decent and race on past 3yo and make a bit of cash; or you're suspect and will just have to sit in a paddock costing cash until the hype over your 2yo season is forgotten. Can we get a cheer?
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:42pm
BUSH CHRISTMAS (AUS)Chestnut filly 2016 
Poet's Voice
Bay 2007
Dubawi
Bay 2002
Dubai Millennium
Bay 1996
Seeking the Gold
Bay 1985
Mr Prospector
Con Game
1970
1974
13-c
5-c
Colorado Dancer
Bay or brown 1986
Shareef Dancer
Fall Aspen
1980
1976
4-r
4-m
Zomaradah
Bay 1995
Deploy
Bay 1987
Shirley Heights
Slightly Dangerous
1975
1979
1-l
14-f
Jawaher
Bay 1989
Dancing Brave
High Tern
1983
1982
3-d
9-e
Bright Tiara
Chestnut 1989
Chief's Crown
Bay 1982
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Six Crowns
Chestnut 1976
Secretariat
Chris Evert
1970
1971
2-s
23-b
Expressive Dance
Grey 1978
Riva Ridge
Bay 1969
First Landing
Iberia
1956
1954
9-b
1-k
Exclusive Dancer
Grey 1967
Native Dancer
Exclusive
1950
1953
5-f
10-a
Red Margarita
Chestnut 2006
Dalakhani
Grey 2000
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Hopespringseternal
1970
1971
13-c
16-g
Damana
Grey 1981
Crystal Palace
Denia
1974
1973
10-e
9-e
Red Bartsia
Chestnut 1998
Barathea
Bay 1990
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Brocade
Bay 1981
Habitat
Canton Silk
1966
1970
4-r
14-a
Rum Cay
Chestnut 1985
Our Native
Bay 1970
Exclusive Native
Our Jackie
1965
1964
10-a
20-a
Oraston
Chestnut 1978
Morston
Orange Cap
1970
1966
20-c
3-n
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector5m x 5m Shirley Heights5m x 4m Northern Dancer5m x 5m




reductio ad absurdum



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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:43pm
 4 starts, yet to see 1200m.

UTZON (NZ)White filly 2016 
Charm Spirit
Bay 2011
Invincible Spirit
Bay 1997
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Rafha
Bay 1987
Kris
Chestnut 1976
Sharpen Up
Doubly Sure
1969
1971
5-i
2-o
Eljazzi
Bay 1981
Artaius
Border Bounty
1974
1965
14-c
7-a
L'Enjoleuse
Bay 2002
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Toute Cy
1976
1979
8-i
1-u
Machaera
Bay 1993
Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987
Mr Prospector
Coup de Folie
1970
1982
13-c
2-d
Somfas
Bay or brown 1978
What a Pleasure
Ciboulette
1965
1961
5-f
4-g
The Opera House
White 2006
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Carmina Burana
Chestnut 1995
Star Way
Chestnut 1977
Star Appeal
Bay 1970
Appiani
Sterna
1963
1960
4-f
5-d
New Way
Chestnut 1970
Klairon
New Move
1952
1958
1-w
6-e
Benediction
Bay 1985
Day Is Done
Chestnut 1979
Artaius
Headin' Home
1974
1971
14-c
4-p
Cathedra
Bay 1976
So Blessed
Collyria
1965
1956
B3
6-e
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5m x 5m Sir Ivor5f x 4m Artaius5f x 5m




reductio ad absurdum



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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:45pm
17 starts yet to see anything past a mile.

FIFTY STARS (IRE)Bay colt 2015 
Sea the Stars
Bay 2006
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Promised Lady
1955
1961
9-h
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Almyra
1958
1962
7-a
9-h
Swizzle Stick
Bay 2007
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935
1944
4-r
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950
1947
5-f
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Bay 1968
Hail to Reason
Lalun
1958
1952
4-n
19-b
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Viz
Bay 2002
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
For Example
Bay 1992
Northern Baby
Bay 1976
Northern Dancer
Two Rings
1961
1970
2-d
17-b
Bold Example
Bay 1969
Bold Lad
Lady Be Good
1962
1956
5-f
8-h
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 3m,5m




reductio ad absurdum



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JudgeHolden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

We have the proper horses.

We do not have proper trainers.



You keep saying this but our trainers do much better with imports than Oz breds. This blows your whole argument out of the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

We have the proper horses.

We do not have proper trainers.



You keep saying this but our trainers do much better with imports than Oz breds. This blows your whole argument out of the water.

Apart from maybe two or three most go backwards out here. Avilius, Hartnell and by the looks of it Finche these 3 have gone ahead in leaps and bounds. 

Our 3 year old Derby horses, both the winners and also rans are not going on with it and I suspect it is because OUR trainers do not develop them properly, they race them into the ground over short trips.

Prince Fawaz and Dalasan plus many others should be superstars over proper racing trips 2000m and beyond.

Thankfully, with these imports these days, most are not wasting the horses talents in short course races.





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:14pm
I suspect djebel will counter with:

All the imports have been better prepared initially, to set them up for later success; somewhat of a rarity amongst our trainers & owners Wink
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:27pm
For goodness sake djebel, Price Fawaz is bred to go a mile and hardly a stride beyond.Why do you keep posting your fictions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:31pm
You seriously have no idea. 

His racing style, His stride, everything about him including his pedigree cries distance.

EVERY thoroughbred is bred to run 4000m whether you like it or not.






reductio ad absurdum



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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:33pm
PRINCE FAWAZ (AUS)Bay or brown colt 2016 
Fastnet Rock
Bay 2001
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Piccadilly Circus
Bay 1995
Royal Academy
Bay 1987
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Crimson Saint
Chestnut 1969
Crimson Satan
Bolero Rose
1959
1958
26>
8-c
Gatana
Bay 1989
Marauding
Bay 1984
Sir Tristram
Biscalowe
1971
1979
6-e
4-i
Twigalae
Bay 1979
Twig Moss
Hondalae
1973
1968
1-k
2-f
Lady Paget
Brown 2008
Testa Rossa
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Sikri
1966
1967
A10
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Salon
1967
1964
4-c
1-w
Lady Capel
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Kew Gardens
Bay 1981
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
Garden Green
Bay 1964
Pinturischio
Focal
1958
1959
4-r
21-a
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x 5m,5m Natalma5m,5f x Danzig3m x 4m




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:


EVERY thoroughbred is bred to run 4000m whether you like it or not.



LOLLOLLOL

Never change mate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

You seriously have no idea. 

His racing style, His stride, everything about him including his pedigree cries distance.

EVERY thoroughbred is bred to run 4000m whether you like it or not.  

But many very slowly, just like your thinking processes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldflight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 9:40am
MMMM
Back to Glencore's point
I agree totally and it comes up decade after decade
When Star Kingdom arrived on these shores it was all we are breeding are speedy scwibes.
A little bit ironic compared to now that Mr Wooton imported a speed influence to OZ, but we have also done that lately with Invincible spirit. I for one was always in the
Speed from Europe NO
Dirt Horse form from USA NO
But ive been wrong more times than right
Our sport adapts and so do all the participants including the livestock and the people that handle them
Sir Tristram had a Slipper winner (yes I know out of a Biscay Mare who one a listed race at two) but it still happened.
Gone are the days of Strawberry Road and Balmerino competing with the best middle distance horses in the World, (sadly) but our sprinter have gone to Europe and done very well.

One of the issues Trainers have is pushy owners who will not wait and some of these problems stem from all of these new MULTI Million dollar races that are one off's and in direct competition with another state on the same day, thus diluting the field, this money is not at the medium part of the financial distribution of racing around Australia, if the money was spread around in Saturday, Mid week and country areas (not all but some) owners may see a potential return and be prepared to be more patient.
We do not have to give your horse to a trainer at two or even three

Remember when the Cups King Syndicate went toes up and Bart was asked if they wound him up what would he do? The reply was go to NZ and scour the Country for unraced 4yo mares and win the Cups double.

It all seems to be lost in the Punt these days, you have to be a speed reader to check out the breeding on the racing channels these days but they tell what price the horse started at two years ago in a Barnsdale Maiden.

Sorry for the Rant
Ciao For Now Flight
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 10:02am
Was it really all that long ago that So You Think was amongst the world's best? Does anyone believe that Winx would not have been competitive had she gone overseas?

The thoroughbred is always evolving, and while we can bemoan some of the changes, I always believe that it is more important to understand what is happening to the breed rather than why it is happening.  If you delve back over old copies of Turf Monthly and Racetrack, the same arguments were being put forward in the 1950's. 

Where would the Australian thoroughbred be without the Golden Slipper for example? It would certainly be different, but can anyone argue that it would be better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 12:25pm
IMO the Golden Slipper itself is not what changed our racing . What has changed from the good old days is the breeding industry and the technology that enables stallions these days to serve 150+ mares a year . Good stallions at stud are walking money making machines. Champion 2 year olds in past like Todman Vain and Luskin Star would be serving a full book of around 50 mares. Good return on investment for the stud but nothing like the money they’d make now. I guarantee all three would have been retired after their 2 year old year if they were around now because they can make more money in the breeding barn than they could ever hope to on the racetrack. Yearling buyers at the sales want the next Sebring or Pierro not a derby winner so the merry go round goes on. Maybe a huge prize money race like the Golden Eagle just might mean owners will race their colts on till they’re 4 . If in 10 years time the winning colt from the Golden Eagle is worth more at stud than the Slipper winner this would be a good thing IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 12:39pm
There was plenty of speed influences about when the Star Kingdoms arrived on the racecourse Oldflight, some that I remember Newtown Wonder, Port Vista, Bob Cherry , Agincourt, Landau, Coronation Boy, Orgoglio, I could go on but my minds gone blank, Star Kingdoms sons won Slippers, Derby's, WFA at a mile and a half, one carried near top weight including the M.C. ( about 59kg) and had the audacity to hit the front on the turn but failed, the great Gunsynd was by a son of S.K. out of a Newtown Wonder mare , Rough Habit and a Super Impose both grandsons of Star Kingdom, there's many more but I won't bore you anymore , look elsewhere for the weakness, it's not in SK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 12:57pm
It's not just the Slipper though. There are now 2 restricted sales races for 2yos in this country worth 2 million apiece! How much of this is too much? On Plate day at the Valley, there's an early season 2yo restricted sales race worth two and a half times as much as the WFA mile on the same day.

Surely this is unique to Australia. And surely it's no coincidence that there are only two Australian breds in the 2000m WFA feature on Saturday, and they're "imported" from the West, which as far as I can tell hasn't joined the Eastern States' 2yo insanity. And if you think that's bad, check out the Herbert Power. 

When I started following racing we were winning Japan Cups. Even in the mid 2000s horses like Mummify and Elvestreom (very good horses but no superstars in their time) were winning against good quality internationals over 1800-2000. Imagine today suggesting you'd target a Japan Cup with Oz breds- they'd strap you to a sack truck and wheel you away Hannibal Lecter style.

The decline has been steep and rapid, and while we keep throwing more and more money at average horses I can't see it improving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 1:55pm
We have the genetic pool in this country to be breeding Japan Cup winners now. But that’s not what the buyers at the yearling sales want. You have to change their minds first if you want breeders to be putting their good mares to a stamina sire. You also can’t blame the racing clubs for putting on races for the sort of horses that we want to own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 2:13pm
IMO you can't blame buyers and breeders if the powers that be are going to put these huge carrots under their noses. You get to race for squillions in the shallowest of talent pools. Madness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 2:32pm
And on the converse there are no maiden 3YO's beyond 1600mts before Xmas in Victoria
We had the 1800 mt Derby/Oaks trial Late Sept at Flem and the only other 3YO races beyond 1600mts are  the UCI Stks, the Caulfield Classic, the Ethereal Stks, the MV stks, VRC Derby, VRC Oaks, TCL Stks are all Black type.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 2:37pm
I write this as P.D.L. just has his third winner for the week
Surely we have a problem with race programming as evidenced by the number of 3YO's being nominated in open maidens
It takes a fairly good 3yo to win an open maiden in springtime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 6:03pm
Racing two year olds is not an issue.  If they are ready better for them to race.  Look I download racemeetings from Europe and whole meetings or five or six races on a card can be for two year olds and all with fields of say 9 to 24.  We race less two year olds than they do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 6:05pm
We all admire Hartnell - he ran seven times as a two year old.
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