Aboriginal Man on "Australia Day"
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Topic: Aboriginal Man on "Australia Day"
Posted By: Redemption
Subject: Aboriginal Man on "Australia Day"
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 8:32am
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Australia Day marks the arrival of the First Fleet in January 1788, commanded by Captain Arthur Phillip. He rowed ashore at Sydney Cove and raised the Union Jack to proclaim British sovereignty. Yep, the day that everyone is so hell bent on defending as Australia Day marks British Rule. It should be called ‘Empire Day’. If you want to celebrate the conquest of an Empire -26 of Jan is the date, but if you want to celebrate the country we call Australia, it’s history and diversity, it’s not just an offensive date to Indigenous people, its offensive to ALL Australians. It’s the wrong date. I don’t celebrate my birthday on the date my mother lost her virginity. Why are we celebrating the arrival of the First Fleet? Most of our ancestors were in chains. Celebrating that day is a bit like celebrating refugees arriving at Manus Island. Claiming a country that other people were already living on and had for over 60 000 years as ‘British’ doesn’t seem very Australian. If anything, it commemorates that we were complicit in Grand Theft Australia - something Thomas Keneally details in his book ‘A Commonwealth of Thieves’. Our nation was settled by the English who incarcerated people for stealing a loaf of bread - but then turned around and stole an entire continent, in front of the people they’d locked up and removed from their lives and families for petty theft. 26 January marks a day of British conquest. They actually arrived in Botany Bay on 24 January and waited on the boat because they were too scared to get off. They sat quivering on the deck terrified of what to them was an inhospitable savage country, wondering just where one day they should pop their stinking toxic oil refinery. Ironically we celebrate Australia Day on the date they found NSW. There was no such thing as Australia back then. 26 January is significant to the English, not I would think to anyone who considers themselves ‘Australian’. I won’t celebrate that. The transportation of convicts and the use of them as slave labour, the dispossession of the Indigenous - that is how European settlement happened in this country. That’s what anchors 26 January. Cruelty, Exploitation and Cultural Annihilation. Americans don’t celebrate their national day marking British occupation - they mark when they got rid of them. July 4 is Independence day when Americans celebrate the time during the American Revolutionary War when 13 colonies of the Kingdom of Great Britain voted to declare themselves independent from the crown forming the USA. Then two days after that on 4 July the Declaration of Independence was signed. That’s the right day to celebrate your ‘country hood’. Unfortunately we were too lazy or p#ssweak to have a revolution to get rid of the British. We politely waited for permission for self governance. ‘Please Sir ? If it is ok with you Sir?’ I guess thats’ why we’ve never adopted that day as ours - because nothing ‘really’ happened. Nothing as thrilling as whacking a flag in a cove and discovering the best real estate in the damn country. It was just a bunch of dudes signing a decree somewhere in Westminster. But that is the day we became an independent nation. When we became the Australia that we live in today - our convict settled, multicultural stolen country. Australia Day should be when we recognise our independence when we had the autonomy to start pulling the threads together. Federation Day happened on 1 January 1901. The British Parliament passed legislation allowing the six Australian colonies to govern in their own right as part of the Commonwealth of Australia. Why isn’t that Australia Day? I guess they should have been thinking about public holidays when that important document was signed. Typical of the English to stuff that up for us too! What were they doing even working on new year’s day! I can just imagine ‘Jolly Good, if they want independence they can bloody well have it on the most inconvenient day of the year’. 1 January ALREADY is a public holiday. And who wants to get ‘Australian’ of the Year nominations sorted over the Xmas period? What if the Aussie flags don’t arrive from China in time? Will there be enough beer? Will people’s liver’s cope with the extra load? Australia Day should be 1 January. Or when we become a Republic. Or just another day. Considering the only cultural activities we’re celebrating are thong throwing and pie eating its a very small but important change in our Nation’s story for Indigenous Australians. It’s not too late to Change the Date and get it right. For every Australian. |
Replies:
Posted By: TIGER
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 8:37am
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April 29th ------------- EAD |
Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 12:45pm
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If we Traced the History of every Country in the world , we would find, most have a similar History of previous peoples. Get on with the LIVING life of to day and enjoy the very short time we have on earth. Dwelling on the past has bad memories being relived. Dwelling too much on the future has us being eaten by grubs. Live for to day and enjoy the super skills of Doc & Co. |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 9:26pm
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Joe Hildebrand found the right words earlier today. https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/joe-hildebrands-take-on-the-australia-day-date-debate/news-story/a92c7179fbe66ddb2f63ed7602de9eb4" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/joe-hildebrands-take-on-the-australia-day-date-debate/news-story/a92c7179fbe66ddb2f63ed7602de9eb4 But in the decade since (the apology) almost nothing has changed — in fact the annual Closing the Gap report handed down every year since has shown that in many cases the gap has grown wider. Why? Few people agree but I’m pretty sure if we gave it half as much time and energy as we do the annual Australia Day debate we would soon find out. |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 9:52pm
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Joe Hilderbrand? ... which one is she again? Seriously, when you are spending $50,000 p.a. per head on the "problem" and nothing is getting better, and in remote communities, children are being raped to death by family members and women are subject to the highest rates domestic abuse in the country, BUT, every census reveals that their numbers increase at an exponential rate, far beyond the national birth rate and the immigration rate, and the biggest voice of protest is not even black, or outside the cocoon of the entitled virtue signaling leftie inner-city Aboriginal identifying SJWs, you have to have a close look at the economics ... who's pocketing all of the money? I wonder if THEY would be better off, if we rejected their racist claims, gave them nothing, and acknowledged them simply as equals ... they can even keep their "smoking ceremonies", so long as they don't try to "welcome" me to my own country.  ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 7:31am
You do realise dont you that "racism" is regarding a race to be statistically pathetic and widely inferior in behaviour? Whites are superior in behaviour? Its racism Dr.E. nothing more, nothing less. and Im a right leaning person. |
Dr E wrote:Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 7:56am
Hallelujah! Why are so many fixated on pouring fuel on ancient fires? No nations history is without social upheaval, the history of mankind is rort with the overturning of kingdoms in the never ending quest for more land, power or food. What’s done is done. If as a society we could take a stronger stance to the behaviour of cultures that mistreat their women and children we would be well on the way to improving everyone’s lives? There are so many human rights and grievances now that no one can impose enough limitations on anyone to bring about positive change. And in the meantime many innocents suffer? ------------- “Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined” |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 8:37am
If it is factual, how can it be racist? To ignore the truth would be fraudulent ... and that is what the left, and the authors of "social justice" and "virtue signaling" norms have chosen to do with the word racism ... always be careful of how they choose to interpret words ... because they hate words almost as much as they hate history ... here is some that seems to have escaped the curriculum ... He (Baneelon) willingly communicated information; sang, danced, and capered: told us all the customs of his country, and all the details of his family economy. Love and war seemed his favourite pursuits; in both of which he had suffered severely. His head was disfigured by several scars; a spear had passed through his arm, and another through his leg; half of one of his thumbs was carried away; and the mark of a wound appeared on the back of his hand. The cause and attendant circumstances of all these disasters, except one, he related to us. “But the wound on the back of your hand, Baneelon! how did you get that?” He laughed, and owned that it was received in carrying off a lady of another tribe by force. “I was dragging her away: she cried aloud, and stuck her teeth in me.” — “And what did you do then?” “I knocked her down, and beat her till she was insensible, and covered with blood. — Then” ---- http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/ozlit/pdf/p00044.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0TyKYzC8X3B-VgC1kea1pKwDrs4RbAe-KqDpAI9MGho9aTiRcCecKXqUg" rel="nofollow - http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/ozlit/pdf/p00044.pdf Other accounts of this sexual violence against aboriginal women in traditional society are recorded by; noted anthropologist Bronislaw Malinowski, Solicitor/historian Joan Kimm, author Louis Nowra, and author Stephanie Jarrett. Read the accounts, which I have deemed too graphic for my FB page at the following link. ( http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/bennelong-papers/2013/05/a-blacked-out-past-part-iii/?fbclid=IwAR2s3N3OMptEOmngb4pcVuG6nTK8WQw48YHR_9qIKgLCW73ZtWgmDLD35aQ" rel="nofollow - http://quadrant.org.au/…/20…/05/a-blacked-out-past-part-iii/ ) As author Stephanie Jarrett, noted in her introduction to 'Liberating Aboriginal People from Violence' ...... “It is important to acknowledge the link between today’s Aboriginal violence and violent, pre-contact tradition, because until policymakers are honest in their assessment of the causes, Aboriginal people can never be liberated from violence...” And that should be the goal of every Australian, to liberate Aboriginal women from the appalling rates of sexual violence they suffer, and although it’s not politically correct to say so, peddling myths and falsehoods about the past only makes this goal more difficult to achieve. https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/i-don-t-want-to-celebrate-it-today-newcomer-brooke-boney-reignites-australia-day-debate-20190117-p50rwb.html?fbclid=IwAR1kC09FL0WMlLUuZkiHvxO5GxW6OA4_FVQvyAYIbtRjMYVodTyXQg0KCWA" rel="nofollow - https://www.smh.com.au/…/i-don-t-want-to-celebrate-it-today… I'm not suggesting that the high incidence of brutality that is evident in their culture is inferior, or superior to what is generally accepted as "normal" behaviour. It is however understandable, as their recent ancestors were a typical uncivilized culture engaging in this kind of savagery when the white invasion occurred. Their evolution will obviously take longer unless it is bred out of them. Defending it and saying it is racist to even acknowledge it or discuss it or god forbid try to do something about it is far more offensive. ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 8:39am
... of course, the vested interests who are taking advantage of the $50,000 p.a. per head, don't want ANYTHING to change ... ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 9:01am
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and anyone employed in sectors in anyway "concerned" with indigenous people. They will be wanting to "protect" their substantial "investments". Huge industry. and you only have to shout, whisper "racist" and watch them backoff. |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 9:04am
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it could be argued that those involved in the affairs of indigenous welfare are applying the "white " policy by stealth by not giving meaningful, common sense help.
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 9:09am
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/feral-horses-cull-heatwave-central-australia-waterhole/10765586%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/feral-horses-cull-heatwave-central-australia-waterhole/10765586
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-30/bhp-billiton-backs-two-million-dollar-camel-cull/10759942" rel="nofollow - https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-30/bhp-billiton-backs-two-million-dollar-camel-cull/10759942 https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-29/catastrophic-failure-of-management-leads-to-cattle-deaths/10759628" rel="nofollow - https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-29/catastrophic-failure-of-management-leads-to-cattle-deaths/10759628
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 9:49am
Elder backs move to reintroduce tribal lawPeter de Kruijff and Nick ButterlyThe West Australian |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 9:52am
what would you do about it and what would you call it? do you know what a snowflake is?
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 11:21am
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a snowflake is white so it must be racist. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 12:22pm
simple way of looking at it. referring to this one Snowflake DescriptionSnowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are over-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_%28slang%29" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia |
Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 12:24pm
| Anyone can read online the reports and letters of some of the people on the First Fleet that give eye witness accounts of their landing at Botany Bay and first contact with the local Aboriginals . Everyone had a very good time apparently with the locals being amazed that the British were men but didn’t have beards but were most impressed by the salt beef they were given . Arthur Phillip could have signed a treaty then there if he had no principals and bought the entire continent off the Botany Bay mob for a couple of kegs of salt beef. When the Fleet moved up the coast looking for fresh water and entered Port Jackson they didn’t see any Aboriginals for weeks . It was a funny sort of invasion without a shot fired . |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 1:24pm
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The emotive use of language by the 'aboriginal industry' sucks in a lot of easily led adherents looking to validate an imagined survivor's guilt. Rather than take ownership of a problem it is much easier to blame someone else and get them to fix it. Invasion is a loaded term when the inhabitants at the time had no sense of ownership and are quick to remind us, at times of environmental duress, that they were in fact playing a custodial role. At the same time much is made of the low environmental impact of those custodians implying that they wouldn't have taken the opportunity to use Western technologies if they themselves had invented them. A Pocahontas Syndrome Utopia where all men(and women) lived in peaceful co-existence is the fantasy that the aboriginal industry wants us( and aborigines) to believe and is in fact an insult to their coping in a harsh reality. We are fed the desert dwelling nomadic stereotype when in fact the great majority led a semi-sedentary existence on plentiful coasts and riverine locations. I don't use the term indigenous either as its well documented that they migrated here. Each new group was in fact an invasion if thats the term the industry wants to use. We are condemned for destroying their culture when in fact there were many, many cultures that changed or replaced the previous groups that they dominated or assimilated with. We are dished up smoking ceremonies, dancing , dot paintings and didgeridoos as 'their culture' when in essence they are but static remnants and a very small part of many changing cultures. But the aboriginal industry wants us to believe that there was but one ideal static culture which does no one any favours in a modern world itself trying to cope with dynamic change. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2019 at 7:14pm
Best thing I've read in here - thank you!  ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 5:20am
Wagga, mate, would you like me to point out all the very simplistic "tribal" doings of anglo saxons? Lets start with "federation square" in melbourne. Looks like a bloody simplistic building to me. If a bomb hit it, it would slant in another direction, and still look the same. RSL's are pokies venues. Went to "war", for pokies?? Should we list the thousands upon thousands of white anglo saxon pedos, that have filled up churches, and tv screens, eg Robert Hughes of Hey Dad? (this list is endless). We booted the dude that built the Sydney Opera House, back to his own country, before he even got to see it being finished, and we have since held it as a national treasure. Dot Paintings? Have you seen the work by Aboriginal artist, Albert Namatjira?? Nah mate, aboriginals just paint "dots" Qantas wouldnt even exist, without the fact Aboriginals are the first people to have invented the Flying Wing. Its called a Boomerang. or how about the millions upon millions of people that have been revived through Resuscitation? Aboriginals invented that too. Your post was 100% typical racist garbage and completed UNEDUCATED tripe. |
Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 6:09am
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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 6:25am
You have no idea. I did not realise that anybody was still that ignorant. What a relic you are.  ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 8:05am
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Dont you love the aussie white anglo saxon spin on "invasion"?? It was aboriginals fault for not defending their homeland. LOL I feel that way when Sudanese dudes enter someones home, bash up their baby, the husband, the wife, and take all their stuff. They just dont defend their homes well enough. Sudanese people have every right to enter any home they want.
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Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 8:42am
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Wagga, mate, would you like me to point out all the very simplistic "tribal" doings of anglo saxons? Lets start with "federation square" in melbourne. Looks like a bloody simplistic building to me. If a bomb hit it, it would slant in another direction, and still look the same. Since opening in 2002, Fed Square has seen more than 100 million visits and has recently been named the 6th Best Public Square of the World in a list of 10 international icons including Naghsh-e Jahaan Square in Iran and Red Square (Krasnaya ploshchad) in Moscow, Russia. RSL's are pokies venues. Went to "war", for pokies?? Victorian RSL..2009 figures but latest I could find without more research but you get the drift: Payments to the community or in kind
including volunteer hours last year exceeded $20,000,000. Filed with this submission is a
document prepared by the Returned & Services League of Australia (Victorian Branch)
setting out the matters in relation to the community benefit performance of all RSL SubBranches within Victoria.
RSL Sub-Branches employ approximately 2,500 employees and pay wages and on going
costs in relation to such employees of approximately $55,000,000 last year. Should we list the thousands upon thousands of white anglo saxon pedos, that have filled up churches, and tv screens, eg Robert Hughes of Hey Dad? (this list is endless). Relevance? But you'll be happy to know the Australia's most famous alleged pedo is no longer alleged and was found guilty of two counts in december but is still under an Australian gag order. We booted the dude that built the Sydney Opera House, back to his own country, before he even got to see it being finished, and we have since held it as a national treasure. Relevance again? But Jorn Utzon was a Dane...neither Angle nor Saxon. Dot Paintings? Have you seen the work by Aboriginal artist, Albert Namatjira?? Nah mate, aboriginals just paint "dots" Yes I live in Canberra and have seen Namatjira's paintings at the National Gallery many times. His https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_art" rel="nofollow - Western art -influenced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watercolour" rel="nofollow - watercolours of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outback" rel="nofollow - outback departed significantly from the abstract designs and symbols of traditional Aboriginal art, and inspired the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermannsburg_School" rel="nofollow - Hermannsburg School of painting. As the first prominent Aboriginal artist to work in a western idiom, at the time he was widely regarded as representative of successful assimilation policies. If you read my post properly youy'll realise that I said we are fed dot paintings as being THE aboriginal culture whereas Namitajira is a prime example of the melding of cultures that I proposed. Qantas wouldnt even exist, without the fact Aboriginals are the first people to have invented the Flying Wing. Its called a Boomerang. Not quite..pretty sure it was bird flight that inspired the invention of aircraft. The Wright brothers have been (justifiably) lauded for their pioneering work on powered aircraft, but they didn’t invent in a vacuum. Indeed, they found considerable inspiration in the work of Otto Lilienthal, a towering figure in the early history of flight, but whose contributions were somewhat overshadowed in subsequent decades by the Wrights’ accomplishments. Lilienthal was without question the greatest of the precursors, and the world owes to him a great debt,” Wilbur Wright https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/online/fly/1899/forefathers.cfm" rel="nofollow - or how about the millions upon millions of people that have been revived through Resuscitation? Aboriginals invented that too. No they didn't. In the 19th century, Doctor H. R. Silvester described a method (The Silvester Method) of artificial ventilation in which the patient is laid on their back, and their arms are raised above their head to aid inhalation and then pressed against their chest to aid exhalation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation#cite_note-135" rel="nofollow - [135] The procedure is repeated sixteen times per minute. This type of artificial ventilation is occasionally seen in films made in the early 20th century. Your post was 100% typical racist garbage and completed UNEDUCATED tripe. My many aboriginal friends would get a chuckle from you fallacy filled post. Having worked on NT settlements, coached NT aboriginal sporting teams and lived with aboriginal students for over 5 years I feel that I'm a bit more educated than you to comment..especially going on your random response. I'm not a racist..I consider it racist to place a static ancient culture on a pedestal at the expense of the women and children of today who suffer for the ignorance of stereotype anchored do gooders. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:25am
From Australians Together(By listening to the voices of Indigenous Australians, we help non-Indigenous people learn the true story of our shared history, understand how it’s still having an impact today and imagine new ways to live together more respectfully.): Connection to CountryFor many Indigenous people, land relates to all aspects of existence - culture, spirituality, language, law, family and identity. Rather than owning land, each person belongs to a piece of land which they’re related to through the kinship system. That person is entrusted with the knowledge and responsibility to care for their land, providing a deep sense of identity, purpose and belonging. This intimate knowledge of the land and ways of relating to it are also reflected in language, including many words and concepts that have no English equivalent. This deep relationship between people and the land is often described as ‘connection to Country’. “The land and the people are one, ‘cause the land is also related,” explains Dhanggal Gurruwiwi, a Galpu Elder from Nhulunbuy in the Northern Territory. “In our kinship system, as a custodian I’m the child of that land,” she says. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:36am
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OWNERSHIP is a western concept. Aboriginals never 'owned' land...they occupied it...they lived off it..and they relied on a close connection to make the most of what the land offered. Different groups arrived from North of the continent, with better technology, strength in numbers or both, and displaced previous occupants...until the next mob came through that fancied their turf. The English taking up residence was a function of technological change and rather than an 'invasion' it was in fact just another group taking up residence. English 'culture' demanded that 'ownership' be organised. Just another group moving in. Some would have it that we are under threat from SE Asian 'invasion'. That may be the case and would be an invasion in that we have claimed what we consider as ownership. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:37am
| So does that mean they had no objection to being turfed off it? |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:47am
There was sporadic and unorganized resistance by aboriginals but inferior technology saw defeat as inevitable. Everyone defends their 'homeland' as best they can until it becomes someone else's 'homeland'....as has been the case since the beginning of time...hence the invention of the soldier class and expenditure on weaponry and defence. Using Sudanese house invasions as a specific example is racist. House invasions by every ethnic group is well recorded. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:47am
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Pretty arrogant to assume you know more about Aboriginals than other people Wagga. Aboriginals live with a core philosophy, "we dont own the land, the land owns us". Wright Brothers? Birds? The first flying manmade wing, was indeed the Boomerang. THEIR influence came from birds thousands of years ago. And you are simply WRONG about resuscitation. Similar garbage that we are told Logie Baird invented the television. He didnt. Australia was invaded, end of story. As for dot paintings and tribal ceremonies you say we are "served up:", you are referring to Olympics, Football, etc, english royal visits. WHO is serving it up. |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 9:58am
Of course not..anyone would regret being forcibly moved on. I'm sure the group/tribe before them felt the same. You can object to it all you like but it's history. It happened to my ancestors when the Romans turned up in Southern Britain. Applying blame(guilt) to generations removed from the original events, in my view, creates division and culpably shifts the focus from current causes of inequality. Denying women and children safety and educational opportunity through isolation and remoteness in the name of clinging to an ancient Utopian ownership myth is cruel. The cruelest aspect of all this is that the main drivers behind these myths speak for all aborigines without any authority. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:05am
| So your point about whether or not they considered it “ownership” is a rather silly red herring. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:09am
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All countries have been "invaded" over the years. Only a matter of how far you want to go back. The Mongols made mince meat out of the Hungarians in the 1200's ! ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:13am
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They did indeed Say what you like about the Mongols, they were brutally honest (amongst other thing). Doubt they would’ve tried that one on with the Hungarians- “C’mon, Lazlo, it’s not like you really OWNED it”. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:16am
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:19am
------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:20am
exactly who was that and did the Aborigines expand to occupy most of the habitable land in Australia destroying anyone in their way , don't think so  ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:31am
And on that day the Hungarians celebrate their national day. ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:40am
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exactly who was that and did the Aborigines expand to occupy most of the habitable land in Australia destroying anyone in their way , don't think so  Why is that so hard to believe? 'Destroying anyone' is a touch emotive. I would think that the previous group would either move on to other land or resist the newcomers. Also pretty sure that other newcomers would've taken virgin turf if it was the easiest way to go. The aboriginal industry feeds us the Utopian, peace loving, one-with-the-environment myth to create as big a contrast to modern living as they can. The whole idea is to create a guilt-shame nexus. Pre-settlement life was harsh...especially women(from a 21st century perspective)..and can and tribal skirmishes, battles and wars would've been common. Survival was a battle itself with the environment...not for all..but it would've been for inland nomadic groups. By dwelling on a mythical Utopia activists use 'culture' as a cure all. This does a great disservice to young aboriginals. Rather than assimilate and make the most of the opportunities that modern civilisation can offer they are constantly bombarded from without that reversion to culture will justify their isolation and lack of opportunity. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:40am
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:47am
LOL. Again. Uneducated garbage. The Port Phillip Council, inner east Melbourne, was built on a natural spring, which was cherished by Aboriginals. The anglos ruined a natural spring, just to set up camp. one example of thousands. Extend that to Dandenong. same thing happened.
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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:48am
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Fact is - there is a percentage of Australians - both indigenous & non-indigenous - that will never be satisfied regardless of whats done.
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:50am
My point exactly...the Hungarians had a formal documented system of land OWNERSHIP. They never claimed a custodial status or that the 'land owned them'. Yes..The Mongols did INVADE Hungary. Already in the medieval ages land ownership in Hungary differed from the customary
arrangements in western Europe. Numerous elements of the customs that had prevailed at the
time when the Hungarian state was established around ca. 1000 AD continue to shape public
perceptions of this issue. Ever since the reign of the first Hungarian king, Saint Stephen, the
right bestow land on those deemed loyal was always a royal privilege. It was illegal for anyone
but the king to sell or divide land. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:51am
And that's the truth! ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 10:58am
Why would 'the anglos' destroy a natural water source to set up a camp? That's a weird thing to say!
------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:00am
|
Let me ask this question - & i seriously dont know the answer - & hoping others can. From a big picture perspective - are indigenous communities any better off today than they were 20 years ago ? Health, crime, social , financial & so on ? Just how would changing Australia Day, or changing the constitution improve things at that level ? I mean its not as if a lot of money hasn't been spent over the years is it ? Maybe things are a lot better - happy to hear from those that might know. ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:03am
It's the wrong day historically as Redemption showed in post 1 and changing it would harm nobody. ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:04am
Spot on! An objective independent audit of current and future practical aboriginal needs is critical. Everything should be triaged through the view of a better future for aboriginal children and women. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:05am
If you’re booted off your land it hardly matters what your laws and customs regarding ownership are- you’re still being booted off I’ve no doubt some aboriginals at the time considered it for all intents and purposes an invasion. I have no doubt some aboriginals today still do. This seems an entirely reasonable perspective to me. |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:10am
Change the day...change the constitution..... The former is divisive and the latter will be tokenistic at best. That's what frustrates me is that these are activist led smokescreens muddy up the waters when something practical, devoid of 'cultural' hindrances, needs to be done to address the many worsening inequalities. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:16am
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:17am
| A few facts about pre contact Aboriginal society might be helpful . The most up to date estimates of the population when the First Fleet arrived is around 350,000 people. Mostly concentrated in the top end . Arthur Phillip estimated the population from Broken Bay to the southern shore of Botany Bay was between between 1,500-2,000 people. They lived in extended family groups of around 50-60 , each group distinct in their customs to the others. The young men were warriors and fighting between the various groups was common. Each group was very aware that their hunting grounds were only theirs as long as their warriors could hold them. There was no political structure at all, no leaders . Problems between the settlers and the Aboriginals were always cultural clashes, especially the Aboriginal custom of revenge killings. The taking of deadly revenge for a perceived insult was something the British had trouble coming to terms with. I could go on about the Noble Savage Syndrome a well recognised syndrome amongst privileged white people, most prevalent in Victorian England but seems to have returned in our inner cities recently. |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:19am
I agree with you on all counts BUT to hang your hat on the wrongs of an historical invasion is divisive and counter productive at a time when urgent objective practical action is required. We see funds spent on maintaining isolated settlements..with their attendant lack of medical facilities and educational/job opportunities..and more funds spent on teaching redundant aboriginal languages...to students in upper primary with a Kindergaten level reading age. Every time a government tries to address these issues (see WA govt trying to centralise remote communities) and the self centred aboriginal industry shouts you down as anti-culture racists. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:24am
|
Only watched a doco last night on Papua New Guinea Baguette. They have horrific issues with "revenge" killings/assault in their communities. More than 50% of all Emergency Procedures in hospitals up there involve gun/machette crimes on the back of this reason. The use of these bush machettes result in loss of limbs & major damage & is unbelievably brutal..
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:34am
|
Sport continues to be the most effective way of breaking down barriers. All for pouring money into supporting that.
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 11:40am
A much better spend than some of the pie in the sky crap they've funded over recent years. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 12:00pm
|
https://omny.fm/shows/drive-with-tom-elliott/tom-elliott-clashes-with-aboriginal-activist-over/embed?style=cover " rel="nofollow - https://omny.fm/shows/drive-with-tom-elliott/tom-elliott-clashes-with-aboriginal-activist-over/embed?style=cover ; Worth a listen ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 12:11pm
|
Wagga, mate, would you like me to point out all the very simplistic "tribal" doings of anglo saxons? Lets start with "federation square" in melbourne. Looks like a bloody simplistic building to me. If a bomb hit it, it would slant in another direction, and still look the same. RSL's are pokies venues. Went to "war", for pokies?? Should we list the thousands upon thousands of white anglo saxon pedos, that have filled up churches, and tv screens, eg Robert Hughes of Hey Dad? (this list is endless). We booted the dude that built the Sydney Opera House, back to his own country, before he even got to see it being finished, and we have since held it as a national treasure. Dot Paintings? Have you seen the work by Aboriginal artist, Albert Namatjira?? Nah mate, aboriginals just paint "dots" Qantas wouldnt even exist, without the fact Aboriginals are the first people to have invented the Flying Wing. Its called a Boomerang. or how about the millions upon millions of people that have been revived through Resuscitation? Aboriginals invented that too. Your post was 100% typical racist garbage and completed UNEDUCATED tripe. Wagga puts his case calmly and logically presenting facts to back his argument. Gotta respect him for that even if you disagree with his conclusion. Your post on the other hand is the complete opposite, not one relevant fact, simply a listing of some of the shortcomings of the evil English in the modern world, zero to do with the discussion Nobody is interested in your sick, racist, obsessional hatred of the English Totally ridiculous post  ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 12:24pm
|
Wagga, the anglos built on top of the natural spring, to "remove" aboriginals from the area. these tactic were widely used, even in the Dandenong region. they were pushed out by a bunch of pr$cks. you can dress that up all you like.
|
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 12:32pm
How sophisticated of them. Pity back in London, the public were still sh#tting in the alleyways, and did for another 150 years later. (and probably still do)
|
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 12:38pm
|
Hate to disallusion you, Redemption, but they still do that in any inner city anywhere in the world . ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 8:56am
We must stop celebrating Australia Day on January 26 Warren Mundine
For as long as I can remember, indigenous people have referred to
January 26 as “Invasion Day”. More recently we’ve also used the term
“Survival Day”, to commemorate our achievements and survival of our
nations against the odds. Most indigenous people will never celebrate January 26. That doesn’t mean indigenous people won’t celebrate Australia. Quite the opposite. ... https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/we-must-stop-celebrating-australia-day-on-january-26/news-story/36989400b8175992dddc98784358803b?nk=5b1ad0836f2e4a5ceba15b4f0e7c67b0-1549151586 ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 12:02am
|
Simple solution - change it from the 26th to ... NO SET DAY ... just make it the 4th Monday of January every year - that's when I want my Public Holiday, and I'm sure every Aborigine (with a job) would agree!
------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 4:52am
|
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 7:02am
Which Aboriginal leaders are saying either of those two things? ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 7:31am
And that's a major part of the problem...there are no authorised/elected/universally recognised 'aboriginal leaders'...they're all self appointed or head up disparate action groups..throw in media whores, bloggers, Guardian journalists and career funds accruers and there you have it...aboriginal leadership. They need to establish a political party. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 8:04am
|
[ [/QUOTE] And that's a major part of the problem...there are no authorised/elected/universally recognised 'aboriginal leaders'...they're all self appointed or head up disparate action groups..throw in media whores, bloggers, Guardian journalists and career funds accruers and there you have it...aboriginal leadership. They need to establish a political party. [/QUOTE]
Do you feel they should Wagga? Do you feel it would be well received? What if their political party become the biggest in Australia, the most supported?
|
Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 8:33am
And that's a major part of the problem...there are no authorised/elected/universally recognised 'aboriginal leaders'...they're all self appointed or head up disparate action groups..throw in media whores, bloggers, Guardian journalists and career funds accruers and there you have it...aboriginal leadership. They need to establish a political party. [/QUOTE]Do you feel they should Wagga? Do you feel it would be well received? What if their political party become the biggest in Australia, the most supported? [/QUOTE] Then that’s democracy ! Wagga’s correct in that there are a lot of self appointed “ spokesmen” but no one speaks for the hugely diverse Aboriginal people. If anyone actually cares about the real issues facing real Aboriginal people in the real world we have to get rid of the virtue signalling tokenism that has taken over every discussion on this issue. Every Aboriginal person should be voting at all levels of government and using the voice they have now . And we have to face up to the real issues and not push them under the carpet while screaming “ racism”.
|
Posted By: waggamick
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 8:40am
|
Yep..definitely establish a political party...centralises their issues/policies...can establish a democratically elected leadership/spokesgroup. Right now they are mixed in with the Greens, Labor and a few other small groups. I think it would be well received....hopefully a unified voice( of course there will be the more radical sections within the party)..that will push for practical policies/solutions rather than playing the media centric blame game. Who knows how that would go? Seriously doubt that it would become the biggest party BUT the way the Libs and Labor are going internally it could be to the Aboriginal Party's benefit in a Steven Bradbury situation. ------------- The Dude Abides |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 8:46am
| How would you feel if they started their own Government, rather than the one in Canberra? |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 8:58am
|
So if you don't have 100% agreement on anything do nothing. The vast majority of Aborigines want Australia Day moved from January 26. They don't want Australia Day abolished. ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 9:05am
|
Wagga, what if Aboriginals did this? 1; Establish a new Australian Government. 2: Establish a new financial system. 3: Allow Australian citizens to vote in their Government. 4: Allow Australian citizens to represent political parties in their Government How would you feel? Its very possible. They have been here for 60,000 years. An entirely alternative new Australian Government, under the Aboriginal flag.
|
Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 9:08am
|
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 1:06pm
The inner city activists (who actually answer the polls) are far more invested in this than those in the bush, who seem to celebrate the day as most patriots do. So the stats will be skewed. It will never change, but the divisive left will raise it every year because they are running out of virtuous causes. ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 1:08pm
------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 11:44am
So that would be NO Aboriginal leader says don't have an Australia Day then.  ------------- An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. Simon Cameron |
Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 12:03pm
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The Aboriginal people I know have no idea what these white triggered RWNJs are on about. ------------- |
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 1:22pm
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I have double checked. Triple checked even... and it seems I am in agreement with Dr E
Most Australians don't care about the establishment of a prison at the bottom of the world or the dispossession of the originals. What they care about is a long weekend in high summer, at the end of the school holidays for to do as we please before everyone goes back to work. If 26 January falls across the weekend then well and good. It it doesn't who cares ? Rename it First Fleet Day and let anyone so inclined celebrate it as they see fit while the rest of us can ignore it in peace. Now I need a Bex and good lie down. Agreeing with Dr.E indeed.
|
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 2:25pm
Grown men don't need a bex when a beer will do  crown lager will suffice.
|
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 7:54pm
My work is done here. ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 9:21am
|
Happy Invasion Day
|
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 9:45am
And a happy divisive day to you, too. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 1:14pm
Enjoying this public Holiday, but I'm also looking forward to Australia Day!   ------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |
Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 7:39pm
Time to put an end to this day, it is dangerous.Australia Day reveller chokes to death on a LAMINGTON at an all-you-can-eat competition in a packed pub
By https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Adam+Mccleery+For+Daily+Mail+Australia" rel="nofollow - ADAM MCCLEERY FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7930709/Australia-Day-reveller-dies-choking-death-LAMINGTON.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7930709/Australia-Day-reveller-dies-choking-death-LAMINGTON.html ------------- |
Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 7:47pm
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.... Gluttony is a sin .... Thanks4Coming!
|
Posted By: Baghdad Bob
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 9:07am
| The woman had a seizure had she had them in the past , does choking cause a seizure ? Why would a woman in her sixties even enter a lamination eating contest in the first place ? Once a person reaches their sixties surely they know their own limits.Maybe more will come to light on this unfortunate woman’s passing. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 10:34am
|
Very Australian Way to go !!! But seriously, as Bob says, surely a 60 year old would have more sense. Thats sort of stuff is for the young ones. Probably had a pre existing condition . Sad for her family all the same. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 10:46am
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Lamingtons are overrated. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 10:49am
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We finally agree on something Djebel. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 11:09am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkrjYitgeA" rel="nofollow">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkrjYitgeA 
------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 11:13am
|
What do you call an Aboriginal with dandruff?
------------- In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT! |