Star Turn
Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=63157
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 3:38pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Star Turn
Posted By: Enabled
Subject: Star Turn
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:33pm
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Just saw an ad for him at stud. "Proven Group 1 Performer". Pretty sure he never went close to winning a Group 1.
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Replies:
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:38pm
Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:40pm
Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:40pm
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Group 1 performer doesn't mean they WON. However, he had 4 x 3rds in G1's, that's pretty consistent performance in that level.
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:41pm
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Little bit like 'Adelaide the fastest Cox Plate winner at stud'.
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Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:46pm
Fake news.
Near enough is not good enough in racing, business and life.
Let's give out a trophy for every runner. Joke.
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Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:24pm
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Clearly Grade 1 performer <> Grade 1 winner.
The word that should of been used is G1 *placegetter*.
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Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:30pm
In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.
A disgraceful ad.
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Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:54pm
 Enabled wrote:
In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.
A disgraceful ad. |
In Englysh - there's a big difference in meaning between "performer" and "winner".
Понял? Дурак бы не понял.
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Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 12:41am
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Our breeding industry is in crisis, let's make it a big joke now.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 1:03am
Enabled wrote:
In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.
A disgraceful ad. |
The difference is what ever the margin was.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:19am
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Nothing wrong with the term 'group 1 performer'. The horse performed well at group 1 level, it's a true statement. If you are gullible enough to believe the statement means anything else that's on you as a breeder.
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:25am
Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:31am
I think the word to be questioned in the statement is 'Proven'.
The only way to prove yourself is to Win.
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Jim
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:36am
Personally I’m more worried about his pedigree.
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to the victor
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:55am
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Agree, very lean. Couldn't have him at half his advertised fee.
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Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:05am
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Oh wow, just had a look. I didn't realise it was that thin
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:10am
His foals look nice enough, but his damside is a horror show.
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to the victor
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Posted By: ianb
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 7:37pm
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Do you consider Winning Rupert good?
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:09pm
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It is a fairly good female line further back. Go have a look at Star Kingdom's close relatives and then you see that lines do come and go. And good ones just happen. Trouble is the stallions the dams went to are weak and that will pull him down. It's the female line of both Savabeel and Preferment among others but they are from a different branch.
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Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:50pm
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How far back do want to go though?
1st DAM GOLDEN DELICIOUS, by Made of Gold (USA). 13 wins - 4 at 2 - at 1000, 1200 m. and $497,290 inc. WATC Prince of Wales S. [G3], MVRC William Crockett S.  , WATC Colonel Reeves S. , H.G. Bolton Sprint , H.G. Bolton Sprint , H., H., Two-Years-Old H., Welter H. 2d WATC Belmont Newmarket . 3d WATC Winterbottom S. [G2], Roma Cup [G3], Channel Nine S. , MRC Sir John Monash S. . 4th VRC Gilgai S. [G3], WATC Beaufine S. . Dam of 6 living foals, 5 raced, all winners- STAR TURN (c. by Star Witness). 3 wins at 1100 m. and $877,300. MRC Schillaci S. [G2], ATC San Domenico S. [G3], The Simplicity Funerals Pierro Plate. 2d ATC Run to the Rose S. [G2], MRC Blue Diamond Prelude [G3]. 3d VRC Newmarket H. [G1], Lightning S. [G1], Ascot Vale S. [G1], MVRC William Reid S. [G1]. Straight Gold (g. by Stratum). 6 wins 1000 to 1100 m. and $775,326 inc. STC Lynch Flowers H., Sha Tin Singapore Turf Club Trophy, Ho Chung H. 2d Sha Tin Curwen Centenary Sprint Cup [HK-1], Bauhinia Sprint Trophy [HK-3]. 3d ATC Silver Slipper S. [G2], VRC Century S. . 4th ATC Todman Slipper Trial [G2], Sha Tin Bauhinia Sprint Trophy [HK-3]. SHUFOOG (f. by Star Witness). Won Turffontein RC Summer at the Palace At Emperors Palace Maiden Plate (1160 m.). 2d Western Province RC Need for Speed Sprint. HILTON HEAD (f. by Fastnet Rock). Won BRC Austin Pool Services 2YO Maiden Plate (1110 m.) at 2. Dam of- Eden Roc (g. by Star Witness). 2d ATC Australian Fire Hose Plate. 3d ATC Lonhro Plate . 4th ATC Skyline S. [G2]. JERRY'S WITNESS. 1 win at 1000 m. Amor Fati. Placed. PINOVA (f. by Fastnet Rock). 1 win at 1100 m. 2d ATC Gallipoli Handicap. Dam of- QUADCOPTER. 1 win at 1200 m. in Singapore. |
2nd DAM BAROSSA GOURMET, by Pre Emptive Strike (CAN). 6 wins 900 to 1200 m. inc. Oakbank RC Nescafe Cappuccino H. 3d ATC Lonhro Plate . Dam of 8 named foals, 6 raced, 4 winners- GOLDEN DELICIOUS (f. by Made of Gold (USA)). See above. ROSE OF BAROSSA. 3 wins at 1100 m. at 2. Dam of 4 winners- OUR INDIAN ROSE. 2 wins at 1406, 1500 m. inc. SAJC The Myer Centre Adelaide Maiden Plate. 2d SAJC SA Bookmakers League H., Cleanevent H., Adrian Brien Dodge H., Gold Guru Rated H. Dam of- Pound the Alarm. 3d SAJC One Solution Mobile and Data Plate at 2. Johnny Johnny. Placed. Suave Cat. Started 6 times. Jabalpur Rose. Started 6 times. Ran Wilde. Started 7 times. FOUNTAIN MISS. 3 wins 1250 to 1750 m. GOLCONI. 1 win at 1000 m. Dam of- Paartapae. Placed. Shelley Bank. Started 4 times. BARANNAN. 1 win at 1200 m. Rose of Russia. Unraced. Corrie Corry. Unraced. Blevic Rose. Unraced. BAROSSA CAN CAN. 1 win at 1350 m. 2d SAJC Alcohol Go-Easy H. Dam of- DARCY'S FOLLY. Won SAJC Tattsbet Maiden Plate (1400 m.). Mipony. Placed. Sister Can Can. Unraced. Fireaway. Started 3 times. Golden Barossa. Started 7 times. BAROSSA MUSIC. 1 win at 1000 m. Dam of- MIO FRATELLO. 9 wins 1000 to 1600 m. and $169,545 inc. WATC Westspeed 3YO H., Ryan's Meats H., Brett Nazzari H., Connector Drilling H., ozbet.com.au rated H. Barossa Choice. Placed. Goldie's Delight. Unraced. Dam of 2 winners- ROCKET QUEEN. Won WATC Westspeed 3Yo Handicap (1200 m.). 2d WATC Westspeed Handicap. BAROSSA RED. 6 wins 1200 to 1800 m. and $58,208. Secret Jeune. Placed. Lila's Delight. Unraced. Gypped. Unraced. Barossa Delight. Unraced. Dam of- MASKING. 4 wins 1200 to 1600 m. and $54,815. Barossa Gold. Started 3 times. Dam of- Tour d' Barossa. Started 3 times. |
3rd DAM MARRY ME MARIA, by My Heart (IRE). 7 wins - 2 at 2 - 1100 to 1600 m. Dam of 5 foals, all raced, 3 winners- BAROSSA GOURMET (f. by Pre Emptive Strike (CAN)). See above. JUST FOR MARIA. 7 wins 1000 to 1400 m. WATC Connector Drilling H. 2d VATC St. Clair H., SAJC Lord Dudley H. 3d SAJC Heritage Week Graduation S. Dam of 3 winners- JUST FOR ADVENTURE. 11 wins 1100 to 1700 m. JUST WHISPER GO. 2 wins at 1000, 1100 m. SHY TALK. 1 win at 1200 m. Simpleton. Started 8 times. UNBOUND. 1 win at 1200 m. Botanic. Started 7 times. Vintage Delight. Started 9 times. Dam of- Cash Exchange (g. by Real Cash (USA)). 5 wins 1050 to 1650 m. inc. SAJC Nakayama H. 2d SAJC Legacy Tony's Tuna International H. 3d SAJC Christmas H. [G3], Kpmg Assurance and Advisory H., Marsh H. Next Vintage. Unraced. |
4th DAM REGAL WATERS, by Above Water (IRE). Unraced. Half-sister to Blue Nile, Royal Biscay. Dam of 3 foals, all raced, 2 winners- MARRY ME MARIA (f. by My Heart (IRE)). See above. PAGAN CLOUD. 1 win at 1200 m. Dam of- CARGO CULT. 1 win at 1200 m. Shut the Gate. Unraced. Dam of- Midnight Romance. Started twice. Pagan Rites. Unraced. Queen Nile. Started 6 times. |
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Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:51pm
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
Agree TJ . sadly people are prepared to pay proven prices for unproven stallions. its bloody crazy.
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:20pm
ianb wrote:
Do you consider Winning Rupert good? |
He’s a fail on X rays before you even get to his awful page.
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to the victor
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:33pm
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His dam was a popular horse in Western Australia, trained by a renowned trainer.
probably cant do much worse than other local bred stallions.
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Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 8:32pm
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Honestly, there is nothing wrong with his pedigree, the first dam is black type, has produced black type winners, with 5 runners for 5 winners. Now IF his first dam had done nothing on the track, and just had him perform, and then there was no other black type till 3rd or 4th dam, then id skip. He is a very nice type, and he is passing on good bone and muscle to his foals. He is advertised at 22,000, but I would say Vinery would probably deal to 16k. He may not have won a group 1, but he was consistently placed, and in good tough Gp 1's unlike a few other new season stallions at stud for similar who won very mediocre and non stallion gp1s, and is shockingly put together. He is good value, and if I had a mare, I certainly send 1 to him!
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:09pm
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His pedigree is not too bad at all. He is handsome as, and his foals look good. Golly he is a big gullumper tho .  The others glided around, and he pounded around the parade ring. But as Einstein says, compared to others, and their price, he isnt the worst of those out there, and with Vinery, they do have a knack with their stallions. But I wouldnt go for $22,000. I would be looking to deal.
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animals before people.
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:13pm
Ridiculously overpriced.
His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.
Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.
Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there?
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Jim
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Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:40pm
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He is another Alan Bell promotion. Alan is a proven judge, but this bloke didn't quite get there at the vey top. Mind you he wasn't far off. Many of us would have loved to own him as a racehorse
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Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 12:01am
Paul Hogan wrote:
Ridiculously overpriced.
His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.
Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.
Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there? |
Just because his sire is struggling, doesn't mean he will. Sheesh, plenty of sires out there that far surpass their own sires deeds! No, I don't work for Vinery if that is what you are asking. Do not even live in the same state.
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 12:15am
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Bagging stallions is a hobby on here .
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animals before people.
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Posted By: Pazman
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 4:48am
Glencoe wrote:
He is another Alan Bell promotion. Alan is a proven judge, but this bloke didn't quite get there at the vey top.Mind you he wasn't far off. Many of us would have loved to own him as a racehorse |
Deep Field- Fatest horse etc.
Same fee and no G1 wins.
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 10:50pm
Pazman wrote:
Glencoe wrote:
He is another Alan Bell promotion. Alan is a proven judge, but this bloke didn't quite get there at the vey top.Mind you he wasn't far off. Many of us would have loved to own him as a racehorse |
Deep Field- Fatest horse etc.
Same fee and no G1 wins. |
Fastest or fattest?
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to the victor
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 11:27pm
Paul Hogan wrote:
Ridiculously overpriced.
His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.
Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.
Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there? |
And what do you look for ?
these look pretty good to me.   http://vinery.com.au/news/star-turns-first-crop-of-future-stars http://vinery.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Star-Turn-conformation-shot.jpg" rel="nofollow"> 
STAR TURN (AUS)Sire: Star Witness
Dam: Golden Delicious
Dam Sire: Made Of Gold
Born: 2013
Colour: Chestnut
Size: 16.1HH
Commenced Stud Duties: 2017
Service Fee: $22,000 http://vinery.com.au/nomination-request-form/" rel="nofollow - http://www.g1goldmine.com/stallionmatch/stallionmatch.aspx?for=G1StallionMatch%20-%20VINERY.htm" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:19pm
Einstein wrote:
Paul Hogan wrote:
Ridiculously overpriced.
His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.
Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.
Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there? |
Just because his sire is struggling, doesn't mean he will. Sheesh, plenty of sires out there that far surpass their own sires deeds! No, I don't work for Vinery if that is what you are asking. Do not even live in the same state. |
Don’t agree anyway too much.
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Jim
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:21pm
Isaac soloman wrote:
Paul Hogan wrote:
Ridiculously overpriced.
His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.
Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.
Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there? |
And what do you look for ?
these look pretty good to me. http://vinery.com.au/news/star-turns-first-crop-of-future-stars <div ="fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion_builder_column_2_3 fusion-two-third fusion-column-first 2_3" style="-sizing: border-; clear: left; : relative; : left; margin-bottom: 20px; width: 703.922px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 44px;"><div ="fusion-column-wrapper" -bg-="" style="-sizing: border-; min-height: 1px; padding: 0px; -: left top; -repeat: no-repeat; -size: cover;"><div ="fusion--carousel fusion--carousel-auto light-enabled" style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 40px;"><div ="fusion-carousel" -autoplay="yes" -columns="1" -itemmargin="5" -itemwidth="180" -touchscroll="no" -size="auto" style="-sizing: border-; overflow: ; padding: 0px;"><div ="fusion-carousel-er" style="-sizing: border-; : relative; margin-left: -5px;"><div ="fusion-carousel-wrapper" style="-sizing: -; padding: 8px 0px; : none; : relative; top: auto; right: auto; bottom: auto; left: auto; : auto; width: 709px; height: 531px; margin: 0px; overflow: ;"><ul ="fusion-carousel-holder" style="-sizing: border-; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; list-style: none; : none; : ; top: auto; right: auto; bottom: auto; left: 0px; width: 2127px; height: 531px; line-height: 531px;"><li ="fusion-carousel-item" style="-sizing: border-; display: block; : left; padding: 0px; margin-left: 5px; width: 704px;"><div ="fusion-carousel-item-wrapper" style="-sizing: border-; display: inline-block; visibility: inherit; vertical-align: middle; width: 704px; line-height: normal; text-align: center;"><div ="fusion--wrapper --none" style="-sizing: border-; overflow: ; : 1; : relative; display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0px; max-width: 100%;"> http://vinery.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Star-Turn-conformation-shot.jpg" rel="nofollow"> |
Running ability.
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Jim
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:29pm
acacia alba wrote:
Bagging stallions is a hobby on here. |
I hardly think so.
Since when does posting opinions on Star Turn's performances and distaff pedigree constitute "bagging"?
And since when has bagging stallions generally been a hobby in this particular Forum?
But that aside he served nearly 160 mares in his first season, albeit most between $13,200 and $16,500, so there'll be no excuse whatsoever if he doesn't produce early winners.
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 8:29pm
To be honest when they charge what they do and make claims that they do in their advertisements, it’s really up to the breeders to be discerning- and if they need to discuss a stallion in less than glowing terms, then so be it. None of this $22,000 brigade should really stand at that fee.
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to the victor
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 10:11pm
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"Running ability."
paul hogan i thought you were questioning the good bone and muscle.
as for running ability will have to wait a couple of years. i think....
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:47pm
Second Chance wrote:
acacia alba wrote:
Bagging stallions is a hobby on here. |
I hardly think so.
Since when does posting opinions on Star Turn's performances and distaff pedigree constitute "bagging"?
And since when has bagging stallions generally been a hobby in this particular Forum?
But that aside he served nearly 160 mares in his first season, albeit most between $13,200 and $16,500, so there'll be no excuse whatsoever if he doesn't produce early winners.
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No ? Go back thru a lot of the posts . Not just this stallion but others as well.
Opinions are one thing. Bagging is another. And there are plenty here who just want to bag a horse. Becuase they can.
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animals before people.
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:26am
Isaac soloman wrote:
paul hogan i thought you were questioning the good bone and muscle.
As for running ability will have to wait a couple of years. i think |
No you won't. He will be handy like his Sire.
How hard is that?
All horses have bone and muscle.
Good bone and muscle is better explained by the more intelligent people like yourself and Ironstien.
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Jim
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:35am
He is worth $6,500 at best.
If anyone wants a serve at this fee PM me.
I would not pay a dollar more.
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Jim
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:37am
If I get three we should be able to tie up the deal.
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Jim
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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:04am
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obviously you are peeved by his fee.
that is all.
Well, the market will dictate, wont it.
Dont have to be Einstein 
The market will also dictate where you send your mares.
Bad luck,, although as somesone said, you can always try negotiating, instead of bagging.
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:18am
Didn't even know he existed until looking at this thread
He is overpriced that is not bagging him it is a commercial reality.
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Jim
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Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:22pm
It would be a funny comeback if it made sense 
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Jim
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Posted By: Nick
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 12:00am
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Got some nice 2 year olds
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Posted By: robbo
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 5:21pm
I inspected the Star Turn/Agueda filly at Classic and absolutely loved her. Not overly big but power exactly where you wanted to see it for a jump and run two year old type - shoulder, forearm, gaskins. Lovely presence as well.
Didn't think she would make $310K, mind you!
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Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 8:56pm
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Guess which NSW stud are strongly rumoured (almost fact) to use Sun/Eliza Pk as a satellite base
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 9:10pm
Kristen apprently alluded to this on her FB page today so a friend PMd to ask if I knew, which of course I didn't, but did reply that it'd come to light here sooner than later
Given the thread name, I guess it has to be Vinery 
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Posted By: QuizAbout
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 9:24pm
Glencoe wrote:
Guess which NSW stud are strongly rumoured (almost fact) to use Sun/Eliza Pk as a satellite base
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Satellite base for what? Mares? Racers?
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