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Sydney Takes Bugs Bunny

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Topic: Sydney Takes Bugs Bunny
Posted By: oneonesit
Subject: Sydney Takes Bugs Bunny
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:29am
TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on

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Replies:
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:39am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on
And one more reason. Take the hint - most are getting jack of the squillion internationals taking the race over. Maximum 6 to 8

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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:02am
Someone reported at least one of the TABs was glitchy or down which doesn't help either - if true.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:13am
What about people no longer betting with the TAB - I’m sure they have an ever-shrinking client case as the corporates gain. And also I agree far too many internationals making it irrelevant. Also, the favourite drew so wide that potentially the people who just back the obvious were put off.

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to the victor

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Someone reported at least one of the TABs was glitchy or down which doesn't help either - if true.
Spot on Gay - I forgot about that one. Sportsbet (biggest on-line player) was down for over 2 hours , Ladbrokes similar. So fair to say TABs loss was not picked up by others

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:22am
The internationals issue has more impact on the "average punter". They don't relate to the horses or their form. Once a yearers probably not so much.

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:28am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on

And one more reason. Take the hint - most are getting jack of the squillion internationals taking the race over. Maximum 6 to 8


If you limit the number of internationals you slash the number of horses with a chance to win the bloody thing. Can’t see how that’d help betting turnover.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:50am
Its certainly turninng into a race with horses that most of the everyday people know nothing about.  Once, everyone knew who a trainer was, or a jockey, and they just had their once a year bet on those fellows.  Now its hard even for those of us who follow races to even keep up with overseas form, let alone all the trainers and jocks.  I know a few locals who this year said they wernt even having a bet because they didnt know anything about it.  A few others said they were having a bet on James Cummings because of the Bart connection. Its loosing its appeal to the every day Aussies because there is no "little battler story" even in the race, let alone one with the chance of cracking it. A few years from now it will be full of Godolphin and O'Brien horses , throw in a few Lloyd imports, and very few Aussies will even get in the race.
Change its name then to the Melbourne International Gift.


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animals before people.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:01am
All these internationals that are winning are well in the market. Punters are doing something right. Except when a local blows them out at 100-1 (does that qualify as your “little battler story?”)

Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:01am
Spot on AA, the Melbourne Cup Calcutta and Cup day lunch where I live were both the smallest crowds anyone can remember, some of my mates didn't even bother having a bet on the race because they didn't know who most of the horses are. By making it an international race they've turned away some of the casual punters, whether thats a good thing or not for the race I'm not sure but it is slowly opening the door for another race to evolve into 'the race that stops the nation'.

Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Spot on AA, the Melbourne Cup Calcutta and Cup day lunch where I live were both the smallest crowds anyone can remember, some of my mates didn't even bother having a bet on the race because they didn't know who most of the horses are. By making it an international race they've turned away some of the casual punters, whether thats a good thing or not for the race I'm not sure but it is slowly opening the door for another race to evolve into 'the race that stops the nation'.


The VRC are not reading the room. Could well be to the detriment of the entire local industry.

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to the victor

Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:49am
I don't think it's necessarily the Internationals being here thats the problem, its the fact they can qualify overseas and go straight into the Cup . It's totally destroyed all the relevance of the lead up races and the build up towards the big day. It's become just another race. Make the Internationals come out and have a campaign and qualify here. L

Posted By: Prince of Penzance
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:53am

Change the rules so they Must have had at least one start in Australia before running in the Cup. That way we can see how they’ve adapted to our conditions.

Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 12:02pm
Tote system in it's current model is on it's last legs.
Need to open up the rebate program to everyone.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I don't think it's necessarily the Internationals being here thats the problem, its the fact they can qualify overseas and go straight into the Cup . It's totally destroyed all the relevance of the lead up races and the build up towards the big day. It's become just another race. Make the Internationals come out and have a campaign and qualify here. L


Do the French do that for the Arc? The Brits for Ascot or the Americans for Breeders Cup?

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 12:45pm
The Cup is a cultural event dressed up as a horse race. When people no longer relate, interest declines. Major story for the build up? Some UK owner will collect the trophy in his undies and afterwards the dead horse stories and how the Arab Sheik has finally wins after 30years. In the past we had many stories of owners jockeys and trainers journey to the cup instead of the media's obsession with the birdcage.

Removed comment totally uncalled for & unneccessary Disapprove
Godolphin almost have an obsession with rehoming their ex gallopers, the world over & are justifiably lauded for it.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on

And one more reason. Take the hint - most are getting jack of the squillion internationals taking the race over. Maximum 6 to 8


If you limit the number of internationals you slash the number of horses with a chance to win the bloody thing. Can’t see how that’d help betting turnover.
How much informed money is actually invested on the Cup Judge ? I'd suggest % wise the amount of mug money is much higher than the average race - so I'm not sure that argument stacks up. What are your thoughts on the declining turnover ?

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Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:37pm
First Melbourne Cup that I didn’t have a cent on since I was 14    Which is a bloody long time ago

Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I don't think it's necessarily the Internationals being here thats the problem, its the fact they can qualify overseas and go straight into the Cup . It's totally destroyed all the relevance of the lead up races and the build up towards the big day. It's become just another race. Make the Internationals come out and have a campaign and qualify here. L


How can change that ?

There are NO qualifying races in Europe that do not already guarantee a horse a run by dint of getting a weight that gets them in anyway.



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reductio ad absurdum

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on

And one more reason. Take the hint - most are getting jack of the squillion internationals taking the race over. Maximum 6 to 8


If you limit the number of internationals you slash the number of horses with a chance to win the bloody thing. Can’t see how that’d help betting turnover.

How much informed money is actually invested on the Cup Judge ? I'd suggest % wise the amount of mug money is much higher than the average race - so I'm not sure that argument stacks up. What are your thoughts on the declining turnover ?


I haven’t had a good look at the figures. You’ve simply compared this year to last. You do realise they had internationals last year too?

Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 2:27pm


I haven’t had a good look at the figures. You’ve simply compared this year to last. You do realise they had internationals last year too?
[/QUOTE]


lol

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 2:42pm
The gambling dollar has to reach a peak at sometime.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:



I haven’t had a good look at the figures. You’ve simply compared this year to last. You do realise they had internationals last year too?


lol
[/QUOTE] Get back to your tipping thread Whale !

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on

And one more reason. Take the hint - most are getting jack of the squillion internationals taking the race over. Maximum 6 to 8


If you limit the number of internationals you slash the number of horses with a chance to win the bloody thing. Can’t see how that’d help betting turnover.

How much informed money is actually invested on the Cup Judge ? I'd suggest % wise the amount of mug money is much higher than the average race - so I'm not sure that argument stacks up. What are your thoughts on the declining turnover ?
I'm looking for reasons Judge - that was one of a number I think have had an impact. Anyhow - thanks for your contribution

I haven’t had a good look at the figures. You’ve simply compared this year to last. You do realise they had internationals last year too?


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Posted By: anabel
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

First Melbourne Cup that I didn’t have a cent on since I was 14    Which is a bloody long time ago


Pretty much the same for me. Had a very small bet. But growing up, I used to sit down and work out the form based on the local lead up races and the trainers I knew. Was my main betting race for the year. Has totally lost that excitement and appeal for me. I wouldn’t even care if I missed it.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by anabel anabel wrote:

Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

First Melbourne Cup that I didn’t have a cent on since I was 14    Which is a bloody long time ago


Pretty much the same for me. Had a very small bet. But growing up, I used to sit down and work out the form based on the local lead up races and the trainers I knew. Was my main betting race for the year. Has totally lost that excitement and appeal for me. I wouldn’t even care if I missed it.
Think it has for a lot of people anabel. More important to get a bunch of largely second stringers over here so they can call it a major international race. Ouch

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 4:59pm
The best way to address the international domination is to improve our horses. Wacky idea, I know. In the early days of the international visitors we had horses to compete. Makybe Diva fending off Vinnie Roe or Efficient nailing Purple Moon. It was terrific stuff.

Our horses are now rubbish. I can’t possibly see how ensuring starts for local camels does anything other than undermine the race. We need some Saintlys, Doriemuses, Might and Powers and Ethereals. Where have they all gone? The problems not them, it’s us.

Posted By: Stainvita
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 5:32pm
Winner of the Melbourne Cup had seven starts in its racing lifetime,never run past 2400 before last Tuesday and bolts in.

With all these variables what hope are you of picking the winner?


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If your hands aren't shaking you haven't put enough on.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 5:33pm
Horse was third fave. Someone picked it.

Posted By: Stainvita
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Horse was third fave. Someone picked it.

True, however the average punter given these variables would have considered it a risk,the race is impossible to work out with any confidence.


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If your hands aren't shaking you haven't put enough on.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 5:44pm
The market took a lead through Rekinndling last year, with a horse coming in under similar conditions. With the access to replays, form analysis etc from o/s theses days it’s hardly a lottery.

Still a great betting race- the tri paid 2500 and was very gettable. And no, i didnt

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:22pm
Good article by c roots in this afternoon's smh about what we discussing

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:24pm
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/tradition-of-the-melbourne-cup-needs-australians-to-stay-relevant-20181111-p50fdm.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/tradition-of-the-melbourne-cup-needs-australians-to-stay-relevant-20181111-p50fdm.html

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:30pm
What a load of crap. Youngstar was “pounded” with 51.5kg???

And if Cross Counter got in light, then the next four across the line still would’ve been foreigners. Head in the sand stuff. Roots is worse than Bartley...and that’s saying something.

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:42pm
Probably talking about Ace Higb

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:44pm
Yep, a kilo or two less would’ve seen Ace High right in the finish. Have we reached peak stupid yet?

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:49pm
He has a point with these lightly raced NH 4yos beating the handicapper.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:54pm
That can be adjusted. It just means another foreigner will win. Our “promising” 4yos get towelled up by the visitors at WFA. Witness the Caulfield Stakes with D’Argento and Unforgotten.

That article is a huge, steaming pile of denial.

Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:19pm
The point is that the Melbourne Cup has lost its character , its unique Australian character , and therefore it's hold on the general public's imagination. We're like most people who are known to be interested in racing . In the past you'd be asked all the time about the Cup . People were interested and wanted to talk about it. Not any more. People asked me about Winx and even the Everest but not much at all about the Cup. It's fast becoming just a race for overseas horses.

Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

He has a point with these lightly raced NH 4yos beating the handicapper.


Like Kings Will Dream ?

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reductio ad absurdum

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:26pm
I see no evidence the Cup is losing its lustre. Form analysts can easily assess overseas runners, and once a year punters couldn’t care less where horses come from.

It’s an international sport nowadays. Overseas horses will continue to come and the Cup will be just fine.

Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:32pm
FWIW totally agree on all five points.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

I see no evidence the Cup is losing its lustre. Form analysts can easily assess overseas runners, and once a year punters couldn’t care less where horses come from.

It’s an international sport nowadays. Overseas horses will continue to come and the Cup will be just fine.
umm - what more evidence do you need. TABCORP sales down 7% - which covers every state other than WA now. Sales across Corporates had to be down - considering 2 of them didn’t take a bet for most of the afternoon - one of them being the market leader (Sportsbet). Take the blinkers off Judge

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:53pm
You’re comparing it to last year??? The internationals were there too. For God’s sake....

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:57pm
For the record , I think the international domination is only one of a number reasons causing the down turn. I think the main one is the growing success of the Everest carnival. You know - first in best dressed. Up here in Sydney many once a yearers are their punting budget early.

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

You’re comparing it to last year??? The internationals were there too. For God’s sake....
Read the thread from the start “for gods sake” - I made my points very clearly

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:02pm
Your “points” were, as usual, ridiculous. There was 50 ml of rain fall on the morning of the Cup. That’s the variable in this analysis...you cant be this thick

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:02pm
& what better yardstick is there to use other than comparison to last year   

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Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:04pm
we have access to the same bloodlines as the europeans - the winner is by teofilo runner up by duke of marmalade. Why are they so much better than our horses? is it the foundation work as young horses? 

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:04pm
What’s the variable, oneone? Internationals last year, tick.

Weather differences...

Gawd you’re dumb.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Your “points” were, as usual, ridiculous. There was 50 ml of rain fall on the morning of the Cup. That’s the variable in this analysis...you cant be this thick
Absolute cobblers. How many people in Australia would not have a bet in the Cup because there was a bit of rain in Melbourne. Beautiful day in Sydney. Your kidding

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

What’s the variable, oneone? Internationals last year, tick.

Weather differences...

Gawd you’re dumb.
How about a very successful Everest carnival with huge turnover increases on last year dopey

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:08pm
Nope, try again moron.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:08pm
You really do struggle at times Judge.

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

You really do struggle at times Judge.


Hey, I’ll take that over struggling ALL of the time, you poor sap.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:12pm
Btw - not one other poster on this thread has supported your stance re the international dominance not having an impact. No surprise there though. 😆

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:14pm
Wow...you get dumber by the second

Other people on an anonymous Internet forum think this..so there!!!

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:21pm
You’re blaming it on the internationals. Then you’re blaming it on the Everest...round and round you go. Your own private little circle jerk.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:21pm
So you had friends/family say to you they weren’t having a bet in the Cup because the track got a bit wet did you Judge ? I had a few friends mention the track had a bit of rain - all still had a bet though. You Adelaide folk are a bit of a different breed I suppose

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

So you had friends/family say to you they weren’t having a bet in the Cup because the track got a bit wet did you Judge ? I had a few friends mention the track had a bit of rain - all still had a bet though. You Adelaide folk are a bit of a different breed I suppose


So your friends still had a bet. The internationals or the Everest didn’t put them off...

This is hilarious. No matter how many bullets you put into your foot you still find another one in the chamber

Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:28pm
Let's just have a look in a couple of years time.

Comparing betting volume last year with this alone is clearly nonsensical, particularly given internationals have been here for quite some years now.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Let's just have a look in a couple of years time.

Comparing betting volume last year with this alone is clearly nonsensical, particularly given internationals have been here for quite some years now.


Which should of course be obvious to anyone...

Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:32pm
Hasn't the betting turnover been going down for a couple of years? This year was just a bigger drop.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:35pm
Nope.

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

You’re blaming it on the internationals. Then you’re blaming it on the Everest...round and round you go. Your own private little circle jerk.
You are obviously too dumb to comprehend or or just too lazy to read the thread. Sales on the MC are down considerably. Last year there was a late scratching which has a big impact on sales ( particularly exotics) - yet even so sales across Aust with the TAB are 7% down ( that includes SA these days as well btw). Sportsbet is the biggest on-line Corporate & they are on record apologising to their customers not taking a bet for 2 hrs. Ladbrokes were even down longer. So one would have expected a free kick to the TAB. I wouldn’t be surprised if the real figure across the board was not closer to 20% - not that we will ever know. I know Sportsbet copped negative criticism in the Financial press over their platform failure on the day. To put it all down to the track getting a bit of rain in the morning is a bit too easy imo. Obviously next year will be interesting. However if the Everest continues on its path of growth , & the MC field is dominated by internationals - I reckon we’ll see a further drop in turnover

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:37pm
https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/melbournes-spring-carnival-surges-again-as-numbers-rise-significantly/news-story/c66a21451501b3aa05bceb1a9c90067c" rel="nofollow - https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/melbournes-spring-carnival-surges-again-as-numbers-rise-significantly/news-story/c66a21451501b3aa05bceb1a9c90067c

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

You’re blaming it on the internationals. Then you’re blaming it on the Everest...round and round you go. Your own private little circle jerk.
You are obviously too dumb to comprehend or or just too lazy to read the thread. Sales on the MC are down considerably. Last year there was a late scratching which has a big impact on sales ( particularly exotics) - yet even so sales across Aust with the TAB are 7% down ( that includes SA these days as well btw). Sportsbet is the biggest on-line Corporate & they are on record apologising to their customers not taking a bet for 2 hrs. Ladbrokes were even down longer. So one would have expected a free kick to the TAB. I wouldn’t be surprised if the real figure across the board was not closer to 20% - not that we will ever know. I know Sportsbet copped negative criticism in the Financial press over their platform failure on the day. To put it all down to the track getting a bit of rain in the morning is a bit too easy imo. Obviously next year will be interesting. However if the Everest continues on its path of growth , & the MC field is dominated by internationals - I reckon we’ll see a further drop in turnover


It’s a one year sample you’re dealing with...internationals have been coming for decades. It’s like trying to explain algebra to a plush toy...

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:46pm
Well that makes it even stranger Judge. TAB sales down 7% across Australia - yet that article suggested sales up in Vic. So much for the rain theory

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:48pm
The article’s from last year, and was in response to Baguette.

Posted By: Discohips23
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

He has a point with these lightly raced NH 4yos beating the handicapper.


Like Kings Will Dream ?

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

The article’s from last year, and was in response to Baguette.
Ok - that makes sense. Have you been able to find any similar article pointing out positives from this years carnival ? RV are usually pretty quick at giving themselves a wrap

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:57pm
The carnival’s just finished.

Last year was good. The international dominance was there too. Penny dropped yet?

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

The carnival’s just finished.

Last year was good. The international dominance was there too. Penny dropped yet?
Get out of those horse threads above for christs sake Judge. It’s muddying your outlook. The vast majority of punters don’t spend hours a day discussing / arguing the merits of a horses performance. You would be a true 1% in my opinion. They also don’t not have a bet in the Melbourne Cup because the track got a bit wet. The more likely reason they don’t have a bet is that they have lost interest in the event - or they have already spent their punting budget. That’s all I’m saying

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Discohips23 Discohips23 wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

He has a point with these lightly raced NH 4yos beating the handicapper.


Like Kings Will Dream ?




First up. The thing has been in AUS for a year.

Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:45pm

CROWDS

Derby Day: 91,194
Cup Day: 83,471
Oaks Day: 61,355
Stakes Day: 67,567
4-Day Total: 303,587

 

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:51pm
Locals, as in old blokes who have a bet on the Cup,  dont any more.   They have no clue about the internationals.  The oldies in my TAB just sit there shaking their heads and thinking about the good old times when they could assess a horse , and have a bet.    And me ?   I am here every day reading all the tipsters posts,,follow the form folks.  But its got to the point now where I dont really care.  i am not a punter. And it seems to be centered  around the punters ideas of whats good.  And whats not.   Lots of locals now have lost interest.  They have no concept of the overseas horses, who have no connection to us Ozzies, so they are just saying, Feck it,,,,,



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animals before people.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:


CROWDS

Derby Day: 91,194
Cup Day: 83,471
Oaks Day: 61,355
Stakes Day: 67,567
4-Day Total: 303,587


How many of those went to bet big bucks , and how many went to socialise, and how many went to get pissed as a parrot ?? 


 




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animals before people.

Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:10pm
YearDerbyCupOaksStakesTotal
2018 91,194  83,47161,355 67,567303,587
2017 87,526 90,536 63,673 68,873310,608 
201690,13697,47960,88870,351318,854
2015 85,943 101,015 57,560 68,711 313,229 
201490,244100,79464,430 70,051 325,519  
201395,223 104,169 66,75765,047331,196 
201298,823106,16271,82574,546351,356
201192,336105,97971,65985,112355,086
201090,361110,22375,08877,506353,178
2009108,178102,16180,11278,478368,929
2008117,776107,28089,33881,652396,046
2007115,705102,41195,23084,067397,413
2006129,089106,691104,13178,158418,069
2005115,660106,479100,26361,382383,784
2004115,54298,161110,67745,734370,114
200397,059122,736101,17955,793376,767
2002101,898102,533103,26947,593355,293
200193,02992,477101,20142,760329,467
200092,581121,01596,40642,311352,313
199976,514104,02883,87031,728296,140
199875,805100,60777,30131,249284,962
199764,528 94,14375,48226,357260,510
199664,09990,14967,08625,736247,070
199560,40474,84362,38825,318222,953
199454,46781,65050,17622,624208,917
199349,02974,766 46,74422,162192,701
199245,72986,20650,92521,495204,355

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:19pm
Interesting numbers Tontonan. Bit all over the place - however the overall trend across the entire carnival is pretty bleak. Bit surprised actually - thought the Carnival was fairly immune to general drop off in course attendances being seen around the country - athough it would seem not .

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:32pm
I offer the statistics without comment and leave it to others to misread them Tongue


AVERAGE CROWDS 1992-2018

Derby Day: 88,652
Cup Day: 99,765
Oaks Day: 81,602
Stakes Day: 55,344
4-Day Total: 319,472

AVERAGE CROWDS 1980-1991

Derby Day: 42,637
Cup Day: 89,014
Oaks Day: 43,528
Stakes Day: 22,020
4-Day Total: 197,199  

Melbourne Population 1980 = approx 2.5 million
Melbourne Population 2018 = approx 4.7 million

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:44pm
Yes cheers Tontonan. Not sure there is any correlation though between on-course attendance & punting turnover. Pretty sure punting turnover has been increasing year on year - which is why I thought this years poor MC day figure was worth commenting on. I’d be surprised if RV were not a bit concerned by it as well. Can’t cop the wet track excuse

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 10:50pm
It is interesting that the “Golden Period” for on-course attendance was just before the Corporate bookie onslaught really took off.

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Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:20pm
What about AFL gf, F1 and Aus tennis open numbers for same periods.

Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:21pm
Funny you should mention that.  I have already written in my notes  (but did not post) .....

It is very likely that the attendance figures peaked (and absolutely peaked given the restraints of the venue, access, etc) in the mid noughties.  The figures are moderating.  

There is no doubt though that the internationalization of the race coincided with the largest rise in attendance seen in 100 years or more with average attendances more than doubling in the space of a couple of decades and the gambling and gaming explosion of the 1990's and early 2000's. 

The decline in attendances have coincided with the proliferation of corporate bookmakers and vision broadcast hours of the carnival. 

Posted By: Platinum
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 2:32am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


TABCORP reported a 7% decrease across its TAB & UBET business on Melbourne Cup Day vs last year. Their press release suggested poor weather in Melb was "probably" the main reason. Well I think a few things can be said - firstly the weather in Melb is nearly always crap so we can throw that old chestnut out. Secondly, we had no late scratching's this year so the comparison is not horses for courses ( actually a lot more than 7%). Thirdly, the Everest Carnival is getting bigger & bigger & getting first bite at the cherry. Strategically brilliant by V'Landys. Will only continue to eat away at Melbourne's carnival as time goes on


The only old chestnut is the Melbourne is crap weather.

Maybe 35 years ago, now it gets the least rainfall of any capital city in Australia and all without the Phillipines humidity that many get .

Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:02am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/melbournes-spring-carnival-surges-again-as-numbers-rise-significantly/news-story/c66a21451501b3aa05bceb1a9c90067c" rel="nofollow - https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/melbournes-spring-carnival-surges-again-as-numbers-rise-significantly/news-story/c66a21451501b3aa05bceb1a9c90067c
https://www.tabcorp.com.au/news-media/media-releases/tabcorp-2017-emirates-melbourne-cup-turnover . Seems to be differing numbers . Tabcorp say 2017 Melbourne Cup turnover on the Cup itself was down 5.7%.

Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:12am
Victorians enthusiasm for going to everything in large numbers always seems weird to me. Those 100 thousand days on Oaks day- what's that all about? And I bet I get a reply along the lines of, we go to the races then to get a drunken root with a random. Sure you do.LOL


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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:17am
We have a race for the Aussie plodders, it's called The Jericho Cup

Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Victorians enthusiasm for going to everything in large numbers always seems weird to me. Those 100 thousand days on Oaks day- what's that all about? And I bet I get a reply along the lines of, we go to the races then to get a drunken root with a random. Sure you do.LOL

your point being Confused

Posted By: skippy123
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 11:32am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

<strong style="color: rgb102, 102, 102; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; -sizing: border-; : relative;">
<strong style="color: rgb102, 102, 102; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; -sizing: border-; : relative;">CROWDS<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; color: rgb102, 102, 102;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">Derby Day: 91,194<strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><br style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">Cup Day: 83,471<strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><br style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">Oaks Day: 61,355<strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><br style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">Stakes Day: 67,567<br style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">4-Day Total: 303,587

<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; color: rgb102, 102, 102;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">

<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; color: rgb102, 102, 102;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">How many of those went to bet big bucks , and how many went to socialise, and how many went to get pissed as a parrot ?? 

<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.8em; color: rgb102, 102, 102;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><strong style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">

<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative;"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> </span>

<p style="-sizing: border-; : relative;">




No offence AA but that would make it the same as any other (recent) year

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 1:36pm
Very very true, Skippy Thumbs Up


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animals before people.

Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:45pm
These statistics are always better viewed graphically



and



Cross my fingers and hope this posts OK...

Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Locals, as in old blokes who have a bet on the Cup,  dont any more.   They have no clue about the internationals.  The oldies in my TAB just sit there shaking their heads and thinking about the good old times when they could assess a horse , and have a bet.   

The old TABflies can still have a bet on the Cup a week earlier. It's called the Moonee Valley Cup.


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