Print Page | Close Window

Franchises

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: All Sports - Public Forums
Forum Name: Joffs All Sports Bar
Forum Description: Visit the famous All Sports Forum to chat with friends about any sporting topic
URL: http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=62830
Printed Date: 19 Nov 2019 at 8:05pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Franchises
Posted By: Whale
Subject: Franchises
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 11:26am
There has been a lot of adverse publicity recently,  Retail Food Group - Michell's, Gloria Jean's, Brumby's, Donut King etc.
Others including 7 Eleven, Mortgage House, Caltex ,Dominos,  all plagued by scandals.
Ongoing exorbitant charges for "training", upgrades,, no transparency in model, pumped up unrealistic profit figures, supply chain problems, the only way many franchisees can keep their head above water is to underpay their staff.  And if they want to get out they find it impossible to sell the franchise, many walk away with enormous losses.
I suppose there are some worthwhile franchises bit I believe in the main the only people making money are the franchisors.
People who buy in are generally inexperienced wanna be business people who do not do research and have unrealistic expectations, perfect fodder for the franchising sharks.



Replies:
Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 7:57pm
Pretty good summary WhaleThumbs Up

Most people who make a go of a franchised business would be successful in business anyway ... and vice versa ... and the second lot, who didn't do sufficient due diligence and were just not cut out for it, make the most noise.

Unfair agreements are a big issue, particularly where the get out clause is unconscionable.

Greed is everywhere ... the upcoming report into Franchising (due soon I think?) will be interesting ... let's face it, it wouldn't matter what it was, an inquiry into anything will turn up adverse aspects!Ouch


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 8:44pm
And if all that wasn't bad enough, the so-called Liberal Franchise appears in huge trouble too.  Cry


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 9:20pm
... try to make a sensible contribution SC.

Be like Whale!Thumbs Up


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 10:53pm
True Whale ..    Real Traps that go deep .
One big money maker for the franchise is the gouging of the product that the franchisee's contract states, must be purchased from the franchisor.
So many walk away broke and the cycle commences for another, unsuspecting victim.
We allow & actually encourage such crime .
It does nothing to encourage honest Business ventures .   


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2018 at 6:43pm
Sadly

Bedford murders: Jim’s Mowing boss says accused Anthony Harvey showed no signs of distress


Anthony Harvey gave no hint of any problems in his interactions with the Jim’s Mowing franchising group.

Jim Penman.Jim Penman.

Jim Penman, the boss of the franchising network, issued a statement on the company’s Facebook page stating that the “only suggestion of trouble was his failure on several occasions to respond to phone calls, made as part of our effort to keep in regular contact with franchisees.”

“The Jim's Group community has been devastated by the deaths of the Quinn family in Perth,” Mr Penman wrote.

“The deaths are all the more shocking in that Anthony was a well-respected and well-liked Franchisee who had given no hint of problems in the many contacts we had with him over the past few months.”

Mr Penman said the company was looking to help any other franchisees who might be in distress.

“We are currently working to set up a counselling clinic at our Mooroolbark headquarters (in Melbourne), where qualified psychologists can give help at no cost to the franchisees either in person or by Skype.

“We are also looking at tightening the requirement for Franchisees to keep in more regular contact with us. We will do everything we can to prevent such a horrifying event from ever happening again.”

The Jim’s Group, which has more than 40 divisions, has been criticised by former franchisees in submissions to a federal parliamentary inquiry into problems in the franchising industry.

Mr Harvey, 24, and his wife Mara, 41, owned a Jim’s Mowing franchise. Before that, Mr Harvey worked fly in, fly out doing cleaning and grounds maintenance on mine sites.

Mrs Harvey, 41, was found dead at her Bedford home on Sunday alongside three-and-a-half-year-old Charlotte Kate Harvey, two-year-old twins Alice Ester and Beatrix Mae Harvey and 73-year-old Beverley Ann Quinn.

Mr Harvey  https://thewest.com.au/news/crime/bedford-killings-anthony-robert-harvey-faces-court-over-mass-killing-of-his-children-and-partner-mara-ng-b88955999z" rel="nofollow - has been charged with their murders .



Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 4:07pm

The Alternative Board

This is a truly unique business opportunity, not like most other franchise opportunities on the market, this business suits a very specialised type of person. Someone that enjoys business, people and making a difference.

Started in the USA in 1990 and has now grown to over 18 countries, we have worked with in excess of 20,000 businesses and currently work with 4000 business owners globally. TAB was introduced to the Australian market in 2014, and currently has more than 15 facilitator coaches operating.

You've probably had a very successful career but may have yearned for something more, perhaps your own business using the skills that you've developed over your career.

This is an opportunity to use all of the experience you've gained over many years


Noodle Box

Thank you for your enquiry and we are thrilled to present you with the opportunity of joining the Noodle Box family. The great news is that you don't need to be a master chef or have a business degree to own a Noodle Box as we support you every step of the way. We will assist in finding the right location, store design and build, and then provide you with full training and ongoing operational and marketing support.

    In return for a low-cost investment you will receive:
    • A cutting-edge restaurant design and build
    • All new plant and equipment
    • Grand opening marketing support
    • Proven systems of operation
    • Local and national marketing campaigns
    • Comprehensive training
    • Ongoing business analysis and support
    • National purchasing power
    • Uncapped earning potential

    Finance options available 



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 4:32pm
One of my oldest and best mates is Chairman of Noodle Box.  The company has a perfectly clean record and francisees appear more than happy with the franchisor.

Any reason they get a specific mention here?


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 4:40pm
No aspersions cast,  I got mail from CareerOne mentioning those franchises, posted them as a matter of possible interest.
There are good franchises , up to potential purchasers to do the research


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 5:05pm
Thumbs Up


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Thumbs Up


Tied into contracts and the successful have quite a turnover.
Harvey Norman is one that comes to mind. He is established around the world and his buying power would be massive.      Probably bad business people will fail whether contracted or not.    Old Harv is forever replacing failures , even with his financial support & skills.

It is a puzzle why someone would tie themselves to a Franchise Cutting lawns & Hedges. ( Jim's Mowing Mentioned )   They pay commission and start 10% GST behind most opposition.    Winter Stuffs them up big time. ( Any business earning less than $75000 a year don't have to Register for GST ) .
I don't know any handymen who reaches that income pushing a mower.
Quite a few charge it ( illegally ) but the taxmen catch up eventually


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 10:25pm
Was surprised to read that htere are only 970 McDonald's in Australia, I thought there were thousands. About 270 are kept by head office the rest are owned by approximately 280 franchisees
 Only $60,000 but you have to pay for fit out of store, owned by McDonald's,  and other costs, probably totalling hundreds of thousands.

Seems to be one of the better franchises as can be seen by people owning multiple stores


Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 10:30pm
I'm very surprised at how many are owned by HO, also by your claim of $60k for a franchise. I can't remember the breakdown but I financed a few in the 90's and it was well in excess of $1M to get one operational.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 10:37pm
I read that in the paper today, I guess the $60,000 is a nominal amount and a fraction of the total cost.  Just googled and found this, don't know how up to date or if US or Australian cost  :

$45,000
McDonald's Franchise Cost / Initial Investment / Income. Most McDonald's owner/operators have entered the corporation by purchasing an existing restaurant. To open a McDonald's franchise, however, requires a total investment of $1-$2.2 million, with liquid capital available of $750,000. The franchise fee is $45,000.


Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 11:08pm
I wasn’t doubting your figure,just surprised at how low it was.
My foggy   memory had the figure st 250- 400.
Not many things get cheaper over time


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 11:46pm
All of the premium locations are taken. I recall former South Sydney Legend (and then detested Rooters defector) Ronnie Coote owned a few ... one of the short list of smart NRL players!

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

All of the premium locations are taken. I recall former South Sydney Legend (and then detested Rooters defector) Ronnie Coote owned a few ... one of the short list of smart NRL players!


Bit like marrying these Franchises.

Costly to get into and usually broke when you get out of them.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 8:28pm
×

misschu

https://prodcdn.careeronecdn.com.au/V2/lux/images/background.jpg"" rel="nofollow - https://prodcdn.careeronecdn.com.au/V2/lux/images/background.jpg" ;); background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Gotham-Book; font-size: 14px;">

Yes it's true! Current misschu tuckshops averaged $2.5 million in gross sales last financial year. Amongst other reasons, we:

  • have two strong day parts; lunch AND dinner
  • tap into the growth trends of snacking, street-food & healthy eating
  • mastered the art of home delivery; a menu refined over 7 years
  • specialise in Asian catering; office lunches with a healthy twist!

Our menu is unique and we dial up the healthy ingredients, for example we:

  • offer low carb shirataki noodles;
  • use whole grain and low GI red rice;
  • use pure olive oil in our woks and marinades;
  • cater to a broad range of dietary requirements including a host of low carb, vegan, vegetarian, dairy free and gluten free options.

As a new franchisor, we're disrupting the scene with a fresh approach:

  • full transparency on rebates to head office
  • rebate Sharing Plan, so franchisees benefit
  • business model designed to avoid shopping centre leases
  • tiered Royalty Fee structure

No hospitality experience or formal education required. We will teach you everything you need to know to succeed. So if you're a foodie and this sounds like you, we'd love to hear from you!



< ="" ="" -dismiss="modal" aria-label="" style="margin: -2px 0px 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: 700; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 21px; line-height: 1; font-family: inherit; color: rgb0, 0, 0; overflow: ; -webkit-appearance: none; cursor: pointer; : right; text-shadow: rgb255, 255, 255 0px 1px 0px; opacity: 0.2; padding: 0px; -: initial; -: 0px 0px; -size: initial; -repeat: initial; -attachment: initial; -origin: initial; -clip: initial; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial;">×

Ella Bache

https://prodcdn.careeronecdn.com.au/V2/lux/images/background.jpg"" rel="nofollow - https://prodcdn.careeronecdn.com.au/V2/lux/images/background.jpg" ;);">

Now in our third generation of family ownership, Ella Baché boasts the country’s largest skincare franchise network and our products and services are available in over 150 salons nationwide.

There’s no secret to our enduring success. Our brand reflects the traits Australians tend to value and admire most, like authenticity, curiosity, hard work and confidence. We’re also a family – we take care of each other. As a franchise owner, you can expect the ongoing support and training you need to create the vibrant lifestyle you want.



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 8:58pm
What happened to the Preview function Whale?   

Thought you' might've sorted all that complex stuff during your Sabbatical.  TongueWink


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:17pm

Start Now

Work smarter, not harder! 
Kick start your business the right way. Gain skills and confidence, and earn money. Fast.

 

Are you looking for a career where you have the freedom and flexibility to work your own hours? You're in the right place! See below for more information on our Confident Start Kit and our special new business offer just for the month of September. 

https://www.tupperware.com.au/join-us/start-now%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.tupperware.com.au/join-us/start-now


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:19pm
Am told you're more into a tupper upper (sic) Doc.  Smile


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 3:38am
You got me SC ... I have no clue what you are on about?Stern Smile

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 8:47am

McDonald's accused of exploiting young workers with 'learn and churn' practice 


http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/mcdonalds-accused-of-exploiting-young-workers-with-learn-and-churn-practice/ar-BBO7DUG?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout" rel="nofollow - http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/mcdonalds-accused-of-exploiting-young-workers-with-learn-and-churn-practice/ar-BBO7DUG?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 5:52pm
Did you end up buying yourself a job Whale?

Thought this one might suit you down to the ground - you would have the posture right, according to CNNPT!

https://vimeo.com/251917519" rel="nofollow - https://vimeo.com/251917519


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:11pm
Talking about totally failed franchises, how about the Liberal/National Federal coalition?  LOL


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Did you end up buying yourself a job Whale?

Thought this one might suit you down to the ground - you would have the posture right, according to CNNPT!

https://vimeo.com/251917519" rel="nofollow - https://vimeo.com/251917519

No I actually owned a proper business, not like the useless no clues who buy franchises Wink


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:22pm
I own a franchise.Embarrassed

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Talking about totally failed franchises, how about the Liberal/National Federal coalition?  LOL

hmmm ... don't understand economic figures SC? ... how many of the 27 years of economic growth have the LNP been responsible for anyway?

... and they gave you GAY MARRIAGE!Cry


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

I own a franchise.Embarrassed

how is the film developing business going LOL


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 7:17pm
Your Pink Ink franchise is thriving Doc.

Whale might be in line for a job ....    Can you imagine , He would Post your mail in a Burka .        Best you leave him in Melbourne, he can compete with the workers from the Sudan.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

I own a franchise.Embarrassed

how is the film developing business going LOL

Hahaha!LOL 

Very clever, but no ... no, it's in the renewable energy area!Shocked


Yep ... we go around with a ute and a shovel and pick up all of the dead bats and raptors that have been killed by wind turbines - almost a million a year in Australia alone!Tongue


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 8:56pm
I'm just doing a Whale & overtaking every thread.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 10:53am
Are franchisees entrepreneurs or simply fairly clueless people who need guidance in order to pursue their dream of owning a business ?

Having said that if they have little experience or knowledge of business it makes sense to be mentored, as long as too much is not paid in fees and commission to the franchisor. Needs to be researched thoroughly before taking the plunge.



Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 11:52am
A Choice study found that you can become a mortgage broker in 10 days doing an online course. Not exactly taxing, multiple choice questions, you get 3 chances to answer the questions and the main emphasis of the course is selling, absolute joke Ouch

These salesmen advise people on important financial decisions and there is less regulation than is involved in running a falafel van Confused


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Are franchisees entrepreneurs or simply fairly clueless people who need guidance in order to pursue their dream of owning a business ?




Franchise owners in most cases are for all intents and purposes little more than employees. They have essentially paid money to be employed as a “store” manager by the head office. Yes there are differences but that’s basically what it is.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 2:57pm
Really ? How much more or less do store managers get when sales increase or decrease ? Do store managers hire & fire or are they "advised" by the H/O HR department ? Do store managers have any say in selling the business ? - do they reap financial reward / loss if their decision is not timely ? Do store managers decide staff numbers or are they "advised" by H/O number cruncher's ? Do staff see Store Managers & Franchisee Owners in the same light ? Do Union representatives see them in the same light ? Do store managers have supplied back-ups when they are sick or on holidays ? I could go on. I do agree there are some Franchise Business models that lean towards what you say. Even so , there are fundamental differences that differentiates the two.

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:08pm
In saying that i would be very wary entering a Franchise Agreement. However, i would be more likely to do that than apply for a Store Managers job.

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Really ? How much more or less do store managers get when sales increase or decrease ? Do store managers hire & fire or are they "advised" by the H/O HR department ? Do store managers have any say in selling the business ? - do they reap financial reward / loss if their decision is not timely ? Do store managers decide staff numbers or are they "advised" by H/O number cruncher's ? Do staff see Store Managers & Franchisee Owners in the same light ? Do Union representatives see them in the same light ? Do store managers have supplied back-ups when they are sick or on holidays ? I could go on. I do agree there are some Franchise Business models that lean towards what you say. Even so , there are fundamental differences that differentiates the two.





If you had the ability to read my post properly you would note that I said there are differences but basically I am correct. The main difference is as you say in how each makes money. A franchise owner more directly sees the benefit of the work they put in and makes more based on revenue. A store manager will be paid a salary but they too could quite possibly benefit from increased revenue in the form of a bonus. But essentially they are both required to follow the directions of head office. They do not have full autonomy with respect to how to run the business operates and do not get to make any meaningful decisions. They are given instructions and need to follow them.

So yes, the description of them being little more than someone who has paid to become an employee, while not 100% correct is still essentially accurate.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:49pm
Depends how you define "meaningful decisions". A franchisee is typically better rewarded financially for increased sales than a Store Manager ever would be in the form of a "bonus". This leads to a total different approach from staff selection, to staff training & through to staff rewards. I can walk into a Australia Post shop & know almost immediately if it is a franchise operation or a head office run outlet. Staff attitude & outlet presentationis usually a dead giveaway. The reason TABs went from head office to Agent run years ago was simple - Agents had a track record of increasing sales by focusing on key customers vs treating all customers the same. They were also better at minimising costs. Its the same philosophy trying to compare commission based sales performance vs wages based. The outcomes differ "bigly". 

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:51pm
No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.

that is what many THINK  they are buying, then they are hit with the reality, extra commissions, fee for "training ' updates, the fact that they can only make a profit if they underpay staff , false promises of leads and assistance from head office etc etc. Often too late by then , many sell at an enormous loss or just walk away. And  many who buy franchises are clueless about business, think because it is a franchise it is guaranteed to make money 
There are pitfalls with any business of course, best to start your own if you are capable 


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:18pm
100% - a lot of dud franchises around.

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.
Well no your not. If you were you would be receiving superannuation, long service leave & other Award entitlements. Been a few test cases where that has been taken to a court for determination - never in the favor of the Franchisee as i understand it. The major sticking point is staffing. If you basically do it all yourself you may have a case. If you employ staff yourself you don't.

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.
Well no your not. If you were you would be receiving superannuation, long service leave & other Award entitlements. Been a few test cases where that has been taken to a court for determination - never in the favor of the Franchisee as i understand it. The major sticking point is staffing. If you basically do it all yourself you may have a case. If you employ staff yourself you don't.




I should have known you would have taken “employee” to be literal.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:37pm
In the eyes of the Federal Awards your are a business owner. In the eyes of your Employees you are a business owner. In the eyes of the ATO you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Courts you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Franchiser you are a business owner. But in the eyes of E&E you are an employee ! Fair enough LOL

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

In the eyes of the Federal Awards your are a business owner. In the eyes of your Employees you are a business owner. In the eyes of the ATO you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Courts you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Franchiser you are a business owner. But in the eyes of E&E you are an employee ! Fair enough LOL



A business owner in name only. You are an employee in the sense that you have a boss who tells you what you can and can’t do. They tell you how to operate the franchise within set requirements. Legally you might be an owner but for all intents and purposes you are an employee who can be discarded like any other if you do not do your job the way you have been told.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:49pm
No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go



Why would I want to buy a business and have to operate it like an employee? Forget it! Prefer to go my own way.

That’s right, they supply you with a bunch of things, one of which is instructions on how the business is to be operated. Don’t follow the instructions and they can give you the boot. Just like an employee.

You’re right, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand. But I’m not surprised.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go



Why would I want to buy a business and have to operate it like an employee? Forget it! Prefer to go my own way.

That’s right, they supply you with a bunch of things, one of which is instructions on how the business is to be operated. Don’t follow the instructions and they can give you the boot. Just like an employee.

You’re right, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand. But I’m not surprised.

I don't think Maccas would stand for a franchisee selling falafels Smile


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:28pm
Its just contractual law - correct E&E. You read the contract- if you don't like what you read & want to sell falafels instead of chicken burgers - guess what - you don't sign it. You go away & set up the business as you like to sell as many as many falafels as you can. If you do sign it - you are a business owner - entitled to make or lose money according to the contact you read & signed off on. Not an employee - a business owner

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Its just contractual law - correct E&E. You read the contract- if you don't like what you read & want to sell falafels instead of chicken burgers - guess what - you don't sign it. You go away & set up the business as you like to sell as many as many falafels as you can. If you do sign it - you are a business owner - entitled to make or lose money according to the contact you read & signed off on. Not an employee - a business owner



A business owner functioning as an employee.


Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 6:37pm
Hey Rusty - let you in on a little secret. Its not me you have to convince that "technically they are self-employed". Have a chat to your good mate E&E - he seems to think they are getting screwed over when they have a contract spelling out exactly what the deal is. Anyhow at least WE agree - they are "technically business owners".Sheesh what is it with you lot - thick as thieves !

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:12pm
How about a compromise position that hopefully satisfies everyone. 

Franchisees are a business operated by the business owner. A contract between the Franchiser & Franchisee dictates the terms & conditions of how the business is operated. The nature of the contract restricts the entrepreneurship of the business owner - & limits the ability to operate outside the agreed conditions. 

Feel free to add on. 


-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?
I am not a franchisee - & never have been. They pay money for many of the decisions to be made for them. That's what you are failing to understand. It isnt any secret

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?
I am not a franchisee - & never have been. They pay money for many of the decisions to be made for them. That's what you are failing to understand. It isnt any secret




No I understand it perfectly. They operate as glorified employees. And that’s fine if that’s what they want to spend their money to do!


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:24pm
At last Thumbs Up

Obviously we should define "glorified" - but maybe another day.


-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:42pm
[
But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....
[/QUOTE]

is that all Shocked
have you ever seen such an obsessive specimen? and totally rigid in his thoughts, his way is the correct way, not the slightest divergence tolerated by the nagging control freak Ouch


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

A Choice study found that you can become a mortgage broker in 10 days doing an online course. Not exactly taxing, multiple choice questions, you get 3 chances to answer the questions and the main emphasis of the course is selling, absolute joke Ouch

These salesmen advise people on important financial decisions and there is less regulation than is involved in running a falafel van Confused

this was a good bump Smile


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 11:07pm
Yes worth the bump Whale - really got the thread rolling. That's twice its been totally ignored. Confused 

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 11:09pm
Everyone might be out having dinner or something

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

A Choice study found that you can become a mortgage broker in 10 days doing an online course. Not exactly taxing, multiple choice questions, you get 3 chances to answer the questions and the main emphasis of the course is selling, absolute joke Ouch

These salesmen advise people on important financial decisions and there is less regulation than is involved in running a falafel van Confused

this was a good bump Smile
 Wink

-------------
Wouldn't be dead for quids !



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net