9,11,13,15,17,19
Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: Racing Forum
Forum Description: General discussion about thoroughbred horse racing
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=62697
Printed Date: 24 Apr 2024 at 7:42am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 9,11,13,15,17,19
Posted By: Redemption
Subject: 9,11,13,15,17,19
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 10:03am
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Expecting a HUGE day today with the numbers. Big win dividends and big place divis, all day.
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Replies:
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 10:28am
I guess you have to try something after that disasterous AFL game in Perth a few weeks ago. What was the end loss on that one anyway? 
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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 12:33pm
Close ....10 just won at $38 |
Redemption wrote:Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 5:22pm
2 x big ones at the G. Coast & 1 at
Newcastle would likely make for a profitable day if you only did these nos. to win only @>20/1  i.e. keep bets down & odds up.------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 5:06pm
Good advice gay3 .. absolutely Certain won the last at Pakenham No 11 100/1 Betfair |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 5:16pm
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Those BM 58s can often result in horses with the most wins getting up at odds. That Pakky race had 4 clearly above the rest = Quin/Exacta/Tri 😲 Worth keeping an eye out & although stats don't support it, late rider alts ofeten go better than opportunity would suggest. ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2018 at 3:45pm
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First day of Spring and the numbers are just exploding into play. Its already running amok. Happens every spring.
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 1:25pm
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Throw out the form guides Its already getting ridiculous today
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Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 1:41pm
| Do you also punt the even numbered alternates or do you favor only odds? |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:04am
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Hey Forum, that time of the year again. throw the formguide in the bin. every single year, Flemington and Australia wide, these numbers dominate, at big odds. start the day gently bently, small wages on them, if they are a bit quiet early on, start launching into them. the big 4 flemington days
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Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 10:41am
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 12:32pm
| only the odd numbers |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 12:35pm
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Flemington Quaddie 9,11,13,15 9,11,13,15 9,11,13,15,17 9,11,15,17 Why not. Have a crack at it. LOL Cost $320. 100% $32, 10%
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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 1:03pm
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A 9 won at Dubbo ------------- |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 1:10pm
| Why not evens? Surely if this theory makes sense then evens are just as much chance as odds. |
Posted By: Prince of Penzance
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 1:11pm
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This is a joke. You would be negative $1,000,000 if you followed this useless garbage |
Posted By: theshu25
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 2:32pm
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Must be Gods will.idiot ------------- theshu |
Posted By: marscay
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:06pm
| I'd rather empty my stash on Micks multi mate |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:21pm
Son't waste your time guys, she has been on about it for years  Has also started many "live " betting threads to demonstrate how she makes money, every single one has busted her bank Or should I say not every one, the many where she had an unlimited bank and bets had risen to $10,000 and more were not busted Completely obsessed and deluded, humour her but ignore http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page1.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page1.html ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:22pm
------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:28pm
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BOOM LOL bang bang. BOOM Launch when they are quiet Thanks for that LOL $$$$$$$$
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:33pm
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Best of Days, $12 Divine Quality, $31 Hows that doubters? LOL You were complaining too early. bahaha Said it time and time again, if they are quiet early, launch, BIGTIME And what happens when you launch bigtime, and they pay big?? Enjoy the carnival, and your formguide. lol.
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Posted By: SkyDancer
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 3:41pm
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two winners from nine races. With multiple picks in all races it really is a fail but you keep telling yourself otherwise |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 4:24pm
From 15 May 2011 , "live" betting, and note it was on all venues back then, when it changed, well it changes to fit the story  I will explain what to do as I go. lets say you have $1,000 Next bet is $10 each way, number 11, Cranbourne, wayward whisper. I will also explain why as I go. Note bank is $1000 Result, page 3 Loss pre-3pm. $500 Loss post 3pm $4,000 Total loss today $4,500 Note how original bank was $1000 but somehow her bank managed to lose $4,500 http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page3.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page3.ht That is typical of all her efforts although some ended up with losses of tens of thousands, infinite bank and all. I am glad you launched today though How is your action against Crown Casino going, you know for stealing your invention Rapid Roulette ? Life must be wonderful in fantasy land where you can invent any reality you like  ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:14pm
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Stop being a spoil sport Whale ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:30am
Simply warning anyone who may be tempted to put real money on this "system " ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:42am
We're all adults & the same could be said for all the tipping & blog threads  ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:50am
Not quite, tips are opinions and people know that. She acts as though this is an infallible system and lies about past results every single year, Flemington and Australia wide, these numbers dominate, at big odds. If her system is so good why has she made a loss EVERY time she started "live " betting on this forum. I doubt if she puts real money on the rubbish system. Just alerting those who may not be aware of her past failures  ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:57am
Australia wide was even more pathetic but she seemed to ignore that yesterday
------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
https://tattsbet.ubet.com/racing/2018/11/3/BR/2" rel="nofollow - 
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 10:55am
| I'm still confused as to why this unbeatable system only works on odd numbers, do horses numbered 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 or 20 not try as hard because they're numbered even? |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:12am
| If you remove the takeout is there an edge to these numbers? I'm familiar with the idea that horses down in the numbers outside the fancies should be looked at. You could imagine these numbers being underbet in a totalizator system but the market is just too dynamic today. Even on the tote I assume the big rebate teams will correct simple market inefficiencies. |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:50am
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I watch them daily & they do definitely come in runs, usually one meeting more than another. Obviously they fire in both sex maidens with the fillies coming into play. I pick & choose, taking Divine Quality in a quinella yesterday on the strength of her 'appearing' to have been set for the race but rarely managing to win & the odd numbers flowing. Sadly & stupidly my 4 horses with her didn't include Booker nor did I have the simple sense to back her ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:59am
All the stats are there in the previous thread to which I will post a link again. Bigal who has an extensive database posted the losing statistics, yes Brooke would say you start off betting small then increase bets after 3pm. Why then has she lost EVERY "live " betting try she has made on TBV ? It is a crock of rubbish. Gay, you believe everything that broke claims on here??? april was no better than any other month!!! (numbers are below). and no the big priced winners did not come up in the latter part of the day in april, but Broke would like you to believe it!!! i ran the numbers in april and the average dividend in the first part of the program was actually higher than the second half!!! January 2778 174 277800 160650-117150 6 -42.2 February 2523 172 252300 164610 -87690 6 -34.8 March 2537 136 253700 115460-138240 5 -54.5 April 2561 168 256100 172120 -83980 6 -32.8 May 1101 70 110100 75370 -34730 6 -31.5 BIG al and Gay just so that you can see....below is 2011 by weekday for you. Sunday is no better or worse than any other day!! Sunday 2282 144 228200 147890 -80310 6 -35.2 Monday 916 53 91600 44860 -46740 5 -51.0 Tuesday 826 63 82600 63710 -18890 7 -22.9 Wednesday 1618 108 161800 105720 -56080 6 -34.7 Thursday 1316 78 131600 60960 -70640 5 -53.7 Friday 1446 82 144600 70790 -73810 5 -51.0 Saturday 3096 192 309600 194280-115320 6 -37.2 BIG al More stats are available in that old thread. http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page3.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/how-to-win-on-91113-etc_topic32885_page3.html ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 12:08pm
Not even Brooke or Redemption bets every one of those numbers, every day in every race, for heavens sake, grow up & stop nit picking  it's a bit of fun, not a fail safe betting system.------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 12:38pm
not the impression she gives, By the way it seems you bet it a bit, have you EVER won using it ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 12:39pm
#11 won the first race at Mornington today  ------------- |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 12:41pm
one of yours I believe  ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 1:07pm
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One thing I will concede it May work better in bigger fields, hence some good results at the Carnival. Would need bigals statistics on that but he has given up Just on pure numbers, assuming each horse has an even chance in a field of 11 ,2 selections, probability `18.18% 17 horse field 5 selections , probability 29.41% Does not factor in odds,scratchings, short priced horses not bet on and other factors. ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: ExceedAndExcel
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 5:55pm
Big field, small field makes no difference. Like all scattergun systems it will lose at the rate of the tote takeout. |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:09pm
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Melbourne Cup |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:12pm
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8 selections = massive 1st 4 of @ $33k if you could get on
------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:20pm
I did ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:27pm
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Geewhiz, even Im in shock at this one, the entire first 4. spent a month studying the race, and this happens, and Im not on it. LOL
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Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:40pm
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That's gotta hurt
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Posted By: theshu25
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:49pm
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only hurts because you probaly dont bet,only pass on silly advice. ------------- theshu |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:01pm
| What do we do now? LOL |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:04pm
back 10,12,14,16 in the last 3 races ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:04pm
| She's cool imo. |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:08pm
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13 wins. LOL |
Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:10pm
| 23 |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:14pm
Its in it, too many other threads with the whole thing. its 9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23. |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:15pm
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Races 6,7,8, at Flemington today. LOL |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:52pm
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Make that, Flemington races 6,7,8,9 LOL
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:57pm
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Flemington race 6 13,10,9 1st $10, 3rd $12 Flemington race 7 23,9,17,13 1st $10, 2nd $12, 3rd $21 Flemington race 8 13,3,8 1st $10 Flemington race 9 17,11,16 1st $26, 2nd $11 LOL
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 2:57pm
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Flemington race 6 13,10,9 1st $10, 3rd $12 Flemington race 7 23,9,17,13 1st $10, 2nd $12, 3rd $21 Flemington race 8 13,3,8 1st $10 Flemington race 9 17,11,16 1st $26, 2nd $31 LOL
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Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 3:07pm
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It is funny, you have such confidence in your system that you never bet on it Except of course "live " betting on TBV which fails every time ------------- Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 9:51am
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Have yourself a good Thursday. Little nibbles early. If quiet, launch into them. You will either make a tidy little early profit, or a huge profit late afternoon.
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:29pm
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Nice and quiet at Kyneton if anyone keen 2 races to go |
Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:39pm
| Minus 1000 |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 10:44am
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9 wins the 1st at Flemington. |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 1:40pm
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WOO-HOO Thermal Current $41 ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 1:58pm
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Flemington 9 wins race 1: pays $5.5 11 wins race 4: pays $6.60 13 wins race 5: pays $5.0 9 wins race 6: pays, $41, $51. |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 2:02pm
In the past 10 races run at Flemington, since Tuesday the numbers have won 8 times and featured in the trifecta 12 times |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 2:18pm
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Flemington 9 wins race 1: pays $5.5 11 wins race 4: pays $6.60 13 wins race 5: pays $5.0 9 wins race 6: pays, $41, $51. 9 wins race 7: pays $18.60  |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 2:21pm
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In the past 11 races run at Flemington, since Tuesday the numbers have won 9 times |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 2:12pm
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The numbers today are going absolutely ballistic, all around Australia $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 2:17pm
| get on the 9 and 11 at ascot |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 2:18pm
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10 12 14 16 18 20 You were a bit quiet last week when my tip number 22 won the Newmarket, Brooke, what happened? I was expecting some praise for getting a winner with a similar system. |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 2:20pm
Put my house on the quinella based on your confidence Brookie
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:25pm
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today is off the charts all star mile just run result, 13, 2, 11, 15
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:27pm
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even the coolmore classic the numbers are going absolutely beserk
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:29pm
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rosehill race 8, roving banker first 4,,,, 9, 11/field
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Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 5:38pm
| Do you back them all every week Brooke, or only when they are winning? |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:24pm
did you have a big collect, oh wait, you didn't run a place
 |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 6:29am
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I had some good collects (exotics) when they started coming up early ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 May 2019 at 4:09pm
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Forum, the numbers are going to steam home today. get on them each way.
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Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 May 2019 at 5:01pm
I got on
 |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 May 2019 at 6:22pm
| Not 1 collect but hey you keep posting this rubbish and embarrassing yourself, astonishing, been going on for years |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 02 May 2019 at 7:39pm
My alternate system, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 had a huge day, several long priced winners and some good place returns along with a quinella. Do I get a prize BROOKE? She'll probably claim this system as well now
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 May 2019 at 1:52pm
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Looking more likely today Redemption tho' they tend to be shorter on Sundays ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:35am
Well, here we go, again. Flemington carnival. Throw the form guide out and get on these numbers all week at Flemington. |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:57am
| 8 gets up in the first for my alternative even numbered system, I've taken an early lead BROOKE, will you be coming over to team even? |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:02am
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Her inside source told her today is the day
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:04am
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Oh Whale, you know its going to happen bigtime.
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Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 3:48pm
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You got me there Redemption |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 4:08pm
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There was an 11 won at Newcastle at 13s and a 13 won at Dubbo at 8s, no doubt she got these at higher odds and had a substantial go at these.
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Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:09pm
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BUT Buckle Up. The quiet today? Oh wow, here we go. Cup Day. Its going to repeat last year. Include them in exotics, bigtime, eg, Field/9,11,13,15, etc Trifectas Win, place, the lot. Exciting times. |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:11pm
| What about evens? |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:14pm
1 that's right 1 of her no's got a place at Flemington paid $3.Say there are 4 backable horses each way in every race that is 72 units, return $, loss 96% . You told us how you had your BEST DAY EVER when a horse you picked ran 2nd in The Cox Plate
, did you have your worse day ever today |
Posted By: Lopartega
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:23pm
| I took 3 quinella's today and didn't get any but in all 3 one of my quinella horses won the race. Miami Bound $7.6 with Flit. Downdraft $5.6 with The Chosen One and Kolding $6.1 with Acadia Queen. I backed 3 horses straight out to win for not one placing. Thank god the spring is nearly over! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:26pm
worst *
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:48pm
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These numbers had a pretty good run up untill about a week ago with prices many & varied so I didn't expect a turnaround quite so soon & had a feeling that Derby day generally favours those in the market. Chasing numbers is of no value to me unless they're coming in at decent odds. ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Donald Hiltonson
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:59pm
| You guys should stick to roulette. This has nothing to do with horse racing. |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 6:02pm
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Neither do many posts in this forum! No one is forcing you to read them ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Donald Hiltonson
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 6:22pm
| Well I guess that’s true. Nobody is forcing me to read it. However I think it’s fair to assume that topics posted in the racing forum would mostly be about racing rather than gambling on random numbers. Perhaps there could be another forum for that where people could discuss random games of chance like lotto and pokies and roulette and betting on random horse saddle cloth numbers. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:02pm
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You do realise though Donald that these numbers are not "random" - Redemption is a visionary when it comes to these predictions.. Racing, overs/unders in AFL, cartoon racing - it doesn't matter. Bang ! Get in the queue ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Afros
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 4:31pm
| Hey BROOKY, my even alternates had a field day at Flemington, do I get a prize? |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 5:16pm
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They were knocking on the door late last week & did like all 3 of 9/11/13 at Cranbourne about the last. Ripper $140 quinella x 3 setting me up for the weekend
------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 5:53pm
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Well done Gay. Don't understand why you keep defending this kooky system though, the fact is it will never work and actually had the worst 4 days at Flemington EVER. It will win eventually ,all you need is a bank of trillions
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 6:34pm
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Like all numbers, they have their runs of ins, outs, good & bad prices. Disregarding maidens which have many shorties amongst those, generally the odds are overs vs 1 - 5. Simply because I look for a larger return on outlay than most, I keep an eye out for them but that's all. It's certainly no system as such but if astute & you can occasionally snare a few hundred for $6 - $15 outlay, it's well worth it. Don't worry, I miss many of them too with the 'can't place at those odds' mentality but in BM58s & lower or unseasonal heavy tracks, they do get up. ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |