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The big dry: 'See us, hear us, help us'

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Topic: The big dry: 'See us, hear us, help us'
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Subject: The big dry: 'See us, hear us, help us'
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 11:44am
For all you latte sipping, china loving, superannuation endorsed, more concerned about american politics, i present.......

just think, when this is gone, you can buy your produce from china. quality however will be questionable. But, tables will turn; those with the money will be able to get the best, from wherever! just as china does nowLOL

Farmers across New South Wales and Queensland are calling it the worst drought in living memory. Many are facing ruin and say it is time for their city cousins to acknowledge the disaster.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/" rel="nofollow - ABC Rural


Cattle and sheep farmer Bev Hicks breaks down in tears as she points out her dying trees.

"My trees, they're 100 years old and I'm losing them," she says. "Things like that really do devastate you."

Ms Hicks is based near Denman in the Upper Hunter region of NSW where many landholders are running out of water. And they are not alone.

Ninety-eight per cent of NSW and around two-thirds of Queensland is in drought or drought-affected, with pastures turned to rubble and the cost of freight and feed skyrocketing.

"People in the city need to look at what's going on and understand that if you've got constant drought, the price of food will go up and you'll lose your country towns."

John Sylvester portrait
Feeding cattle
Cattle feeding on hay

In the neighbouring New England region, farmers say the dry conditions are the worst they can remember.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-24" rel="nofollow">
A female publican stands behind the bar at her country hotel
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-24" rel="nofollow - Currabubula publican Kathy Smith says the drought has brought pain to the whole community.  
(ABC New England: Matthew Bedford)

"It's certainly the worst drought I've ever seen," says cattle farmer John Sylvester.

"But you've got to keep persevering, or you don't come out the other end."

An hour up the road at Currabubula, publican Kathy Smith sees firsthand the emotional toll the drought is taking.

"One farmer said to me the other day they're feeding their lambs, but the feed costs more than they can get for the lambs if they sell them," Ms Smith says.

Ms Smith says farmers' pride keeps them quiet, but their plight needs to be recognised.

"Farmers don't ask for handouts," she says. "But it's time we all looked in our backyard and supported our lifeblood."

Liverpool Plains rural property from the air
Aerial of dry land on Liverpool Plains
Drought stricken land on the Liverpool Plains
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-40" rel="nofollow">
A man stands in sale yards
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-40" rel="nofollow - Tamworth stock and station agent Simon Bourke says the drought has meant he's selling livestock he doesn't want to sell.  
(ABC New England: Matthew Bedford)

Tamworth stock and station agent Simon Bourke says the drought is unprecedented.

"Australia should be concerned because everyone is tightening their belts," he says.

"We're selling livestock we don't want to sell … down the track there's really not going to be too many cattle or sheep left."

And it is not just traditional farmers who are suffering. Tamworth beekeeper Ray Hull has run out of nectar.

"We can buy sugar syrup to feed our bees, but the trees are 100 years old and once they're gone you never get them back," Mr Hull says.

"People might say 'it's just a bee'. Well, it's just my income and it's just my living."

Ray Hull examines his bees.
Beekeeper Ray Hull in his shed

In the lower Darling region near Pooncarie, sheep farmer Phil Wakefield scratches his head when asked where he will get his next lot of feed.

"We've purchased about $100,000 worth of hay but I don't know if I can buy any more because it's too dear and it could be another $40,000 for freight on top of that," he says.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-52" rel="nofollow">
Pooncarie sheep farmer Phil Wakefield
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-52" rel="nofollow - Pooncarie sheep farmer Phil Wakefield has had to watch as lambs have been trampled.  
(ABC Mildura-Swan Hill: Jennifer Douglas)
Dead sheep in foreground of brown paddock
Pooncarie farm from air

Mr Wakefield has had to significantly de-stock, while watching ewes abandon lambs.

"The poor little fellas have been trampled," he says. "But there's not much we can do about it."

He says money for bores would be handy, as the wait for rain and for the Darling River to fill drags on.

The Dry Darling Anabranch
Dried up lake in Menindee Lakes system
Aerial of waterhole surrounded by red dust

In the Central West, Western Plains and North West Slopes regions, farmers say it is the worst drought in a century.

In 2013, sheep and cattle farmers Tony and Marie Knight suffered huge losses in the Wambelong bushfire near Coonabarabran. Their last decent drop of rain was more than a year ago.

Coonabarabran farmer Marie Knight feeding cattle
Cattle feeding from trough
Tony Knight feeding cattle

"It's gone on for so long, it's like back-to-back droughts … everybody is a bit shocked, horrified, because we never thought it could get as bad as this," Mr Knight says.

"In a good year we can produce enough food to feed hundreds of people, but in a bad year we have trouble feeding ourselves."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-88" rel="nofollow">
Thin cattle near Coonabarabran
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-88" rel="nofollow - Thin cattle search for food near in Central Western New South Wales.  
(ABC Regional: Luke Wong)

On Sydney's doorstep, the Southern Highlands region is deceptively green. But stockfeed supplier and sheep and chicken farmer Ken Walters says conditions are dire.

"We've had droughts over the years, numerous times, in the '60s, '80s, the millennial drought, but a lack of rain combined with record temperatures has just decimated everything," he says.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-92" rel="nofollow">
Southern Highlands stockfeed suppliers Deb Murtagh and Ken Walters
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-92" rel="nofollow - Southern Highlands stockfeed suppliers Deb Murtagh and Ken Walters say there's not enough hay to go around to those who need it.  
(ABC Illawarra: Justin Huntsdale)

Mr Walters' partner Deb Murtagh says they have had to ration hay to customers.

"No-one's talking about drought because everyone in Sydney has still got water from the big dams and they can still wash their cars and their driveways," Ms Murtagh says.

"But we've got farmers out here who are going broke because they can't afford feed."

Dairy farmer Greg Schofield
Dairy Farmer Greg Schofield with hay and cows

Greg Schofield is a fourth-generation dairy farmer at Avoca in the Southern Highlands, and says consumers don't ask questions when they can buy dollar-a-litre milk.

"It's hard to look too much into the future with the price we're getting for our milk compared to the price I have to pay for input products like hay, and there's not a great deal of hay left in NSW," he says.

"Mentally, it's quite stressful, that's why we have a thing called beer."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-104" rel="nofollow">
Skull on drought-stricken cattle station
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-07-29/the-big-dry-see-us-hear-us-help-us/10030010#lightbox-content-lightbox-104" rel="nofollow - Drought-stricken Lorne Station at Blackall in Central Western Queensland.  
(ABC Western Queensland: Melanie Groves)

In Western Queensland, farmers are comparing this big dry to the famously severe drought of the 1880s.

Genevieve Hawkins runs a cattle station near Aramac in Western Queensland where 2017 was the driest year in 38 years of records.

"It's patchy — some people have had rain, some people have had close to nothing and we are in the close-to-nothing patch," she says.

Girl feeding cattle cotton seed
Boy playing in a mound of cottonseed
Genevieve Hawkins and her children sitting in a ute.

Ms Hawkins has had to sell a lot of her cattle, while feeding what's left with cotton seed.

"It's just relentless, you don't sleep because you can't stop thinking about it," she says.

"It's important to look after your own."

Sheep make the shape of Australia

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-29/dalkeith-olde/10033966" rel="nofollow - Sheep line up for feed in the shape of Australia at Cassilis property Dalkeith Olde 
( ABC News )

How you can help

  • https://www.ruralaid.org.au/" rel="nofollow - Rural Aid/Buy a Bale
  • http://droughtangels.org.au/" rel="nofollow - Drought Angels
  • https://aussiehelpers.org.au/" rel="nofollow - Aussie Helpers
  • http://www.needforfeed.org/" rel="nofollow - Lions Need for Feed
  • https://salvos.org.au/donate/make-a-donation/donate-online/?appeal=givetojim&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv-DaBRCcARIsAI9sba8TqnxJQTti9IAdFnpKG_Ge1OtidZE9UXtalgd3LRFHOmkjMobC6IMaAmouEALw_wcB" rel="nofollow - Salvation Army

Contributors: Samantha Turnbull, Kerri Kapernick, Gavin Coote, Justin Huntsdale, Jessie Davies, Cecilia Connell, Col Kerr, Jennifer Ingall, Matthew Bedford, Melanie Groves, Ollie Wykeham, Jennifer Douglas, Cherie von Horchner, Luke Wong, Aimee Volkofsky, Josh Becker, Micaela Hambrett.




Replies:
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 12:10pm
Where do you get off introducing the ABC piece about the severe drought conditions in NSW with "For all you latte sipping, china loving, superannuation endorsed, more concerned about american politics, i present......."

Do you think you're the only one who cares?  Do you think people of your political persuasion are the only ones to care?  

Ok I'm slightly left of Centre, however in another life I led a small team that developed Farm Management deposits which are now being pushed by the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources as one answer to the financial plight that farmers currently find themselves in.  And I worked with people of all persuasions who had a common goal to support Australian agriculture through a whole series of initiatives including research and development and marketing of product.

The situation has naff all to do with latte sippers, or the Chinese.  And to suggest that the people you apparently despise don't care is a totally insulting inference.




Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 12:29pm
got your attention though didnt it.

why didnt you post this then?

when do you get off using tbv for your news only? very narrow point of view.

broaden your horizons!  attack personLOL


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 6:15pm
What I got from the, admittedly unneeded first line, is the more direct version of what the farmers in the story were saying, that people who live in the city and who have no grasp of the detail, that goes into placing their meat in the meat section of Woolworths or Aldi, need to realise the dire situation.

I find it difficult to fathom how any Australian government can justify sending tax payer money overseas to foreign governments, but they can not find the money to assist these farmers and their businesses.

As was stated in the story, farmers do not want handouts, they need assistance in gaining a solution to solving the drought, and its consequences.

A irrigation network which would artificially feed the barren ground water, is needed more, than small financial handouts, because farmers want working properties, not cheques in the mail.     

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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 6:51pm
Yes water is the key.  We have to work at filling there dams and getting water to the outback.  This would stop the handouts.  They would have hope for the future and bees are the basic building blocks for so many industries.  This is time the pointed fingers of both sides of politics went down and heads started working together.  It will cost money but in the  long term will save money and build up Australia.  

Both sides of politics just need to put there bums down and start working for us all.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:17pm
Ironically & as an aside, Tamworth ran 3 races today & abandoned, I'm guessing due to the 'showers' making for a slippery surface on top of parched ground.
I do stand to be corrected tho' - I did say 'guessing'.



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:19pm

Drought-hit farmers urged to apply for government assistance payment

By regional affairs reporter Anna Henderson, Sunday July 29, 2018 - 00:17 EST

Some drought-hit farmers have said they cannot afford basic items and food. - ABC
Up to 15,000 farmers who are eligible for a Federal Government drought assistance payment have not applied for it, according to new figures.

Drought-ravaged farmers can apply for the Farm Household Allowance (FHA), a payment equivalent to the unemployment benefit.

Since 2014 about 8,000 people have accessed it.

But about almost double that number may be eligible and have not made an application, according to the Agriculture Department.



Farmers in stress have told the ABC they are unable to afford school excursions, new clothes or some basic items including red meat and vegetables because the majority of their money is being channelled into the spiralling cost of paying for stock feed and transport.

Many struggling families have raised concerns about the significant paperwork required to apply for the payment.

The Scott family in Yeoval, in drought-affected New South Wales, described months spent dealing with bureaucratic red tape. They are still yet to be approved for the payment.

Federal Agriculture Minister, David Littleproud, has already asked the Department of Social Services to look at ways to simplify the process to apply.



He said the review of the FHA would investigate the reason the take-up for the benefit was so low.

"I've called again and again for farmers not to self-assess whether they qualify for the FHA," he said.

"Farmers need to use the free help we provide "” Rural Financial Counsellors "” and talk through it with them.

"Government can't make it rain, and heartbreakingly we cannot save every farmer, but we can and do provide free expert advice through Rural Financial Counsellors and I urge farmers to use it."



Large swathes of New South Wales and Queensland have been in drought for periods ranging from a year to seven years.

The record dry conditions have prompted calls for further federal and state measures.

The New South Wales Government has so far resisted pressure to reinstate freight subsidies to pay for the transport of hay, grain and other fodder.

Extra assistance for New South Wales farmers is expected to be announced by the State Government this week.

Mr Littleproud said his government would work with the National Farmers Federation on other policy measures in coming months.



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:27pm
Also if they did do something like pipe water to dams in the outback there would have to be a stay in proceedings for banks foreclosing on farms.  They would do it I'm sure.  Let the farmers get back up and running and paying their way and tell the banks they will get there money and thanks for the lone but now is our time to shine.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:30pm
Same thing is happening to son in law trying to get assistance with his illness.  The paperwork sometimes makes no sense and no one helps you work your way through it.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 9:25pm
This is a step in the right direction, but went largely unreported, because who the left leaning media wants to admit that everything that goes wrong isn't because of "Banks and Big Business"

NAB to stop charging penalty interest to farmers in drought


National Australia Bank will stop charging drought-ravaged farmers penalty interest rates even though it recently told the banking royal commission the practice, as it related to a particular Queensland customer, did not fall outside community expectations.

https://www.afr.com/news/agriculture-minister-david-littleproud-to-allow-summer-sheep-exports-20180515-h10495" rel="nofollow - In response to recent pressure from federal Agriculture Minister David Littleproud , NAB will also let farmers reduce interest bills by using funds held in the government's farm management deposits scheme to offset their loan amounts.

NAB chief executive Andrew Thorburn announced the moves in a speech in Wagga Wagga on Monday night, in which he also recognised the bank had "lost touch" with some rural customers.

NAB, which banks one in three farmers and has loans to the agricultural, forestry and fisheries industries worth $26 billion, has also hired former deputy prime minister John Anderson to advise on a strategy for its rural footprint.

https://www.afr.com/business/banking-and-finance/financial-services/nab-to-stop-charging-penalty-interest-to-farmers-in-drought-20180723-h130mv



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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 9:48pm
Direct from NAB’s PR department. We’ve “lost touch”. ROFL.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 3:24am
I wish our politicians would admit to that.

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Where do you get off introducing the ABC piece about the severe drought conditions in NSW with "For all you latte sipping, china loving, superannuation endorsed, more concerned about american politics, i present......."

Do you think you're the only one who cares?  Do you think people of your political persuasion are the only ones to care?  

Ok I'm slightly left of Centre, however in another life I led a small team that developed Farm Management Deposits which are now being pushed by the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources as one answer to the financial plight that farmers currently find themselves in.  And I worked with people of all persuasions who had a common goal to support Australian agriculture through a whole series of initiatives including research and development and marketing of product.

The situation has naff all to do with latte sippers, or the Chinese.  And to suggest that the people you apparently despise don't care is a totally insulting inference. 

Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has singled out the Commonwealth Bank for not doing enough to help drought-stricken farmers.

Key points:

·         Agriculture Minister David Littleproud takes a swipe at the Commonwealth Bank over drought

·         He tells the bank it should let farmers use farm management deposit schemes to offset their interest

·         Yesterday the CBA donated $2 million to drought appeals but the Minister said it is only a fraction of the bank's annual profit

Mr Littleproud said the CBA is falling short on drought and urged farmers to dump their bank if it does not offer more support.

He said he is disappointed the Commonwealth has not offered farmers the option to use money put aside in farm management deposits as an offset against their loan.

The farm management deposit scheme is a way for farmers to be able to put aside money when their properties are profitable to help them recover and restock after a drought.

The Minister said the Rural Bank and NAB are both letting farmers use those offsets to reduce the interest on their loans, but other banks including CBA, Westpac and Rabobank are not letting farmers do that.

But back to my latte.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 5:43am
The Government just imposed a $6 Billion money grab on the banks for no reason other than to delay a pointless Royal Commission - if they were not spending that on public servants, bureaucrats, politicians and pointless enquiries and commissions that just tell us what we already know, they could have spent it on dams and irrigation systems that would ensure that we have water in the right places when it is needed ... of course, we would have to piss off the Greens, and that would be a massive problem for the ALP, so it won't happen.

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 4:15am
Yes it's bad, but we have actually seen it all before.

So why apply a band-aid to a broken leg?

Spend the money NOW - build dams and irrigate.

Fcuk the Greenies.



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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 4:43am
Anyone familiar with this Allan Savory - he seems to have proven his theories - but Paris calls for reducing grazing stocks ... is he a fraud, or will this work and be at odds with the Global Warming Industry?








-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:29am
I have Family born to the Land and into cattle .
Have whinged for 100 years about how tough it is and poor prices.
More recent years === TOP PRICES ...     Stashing the cash big time.
( Not giving anything to other industries struggling )

Noted ... almost NO preperation for the cyclical Dry Times .    Today with over stocking , it's climate change to blame ( which is Bull Ship )and HELP .


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:32am

How to profit from Australia’s current severe regional droughtThumbs Up



Most Australians live in capital cities, so many readers may not be aware that 98% of New South Wales and almost two thirds of Queensland is either in drought or is drought affected, as reported by https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/experts-warn-shoppers-could-soon-feel-the-pinch-at-the-checkout-as-our-drought-crisis-deepens/news-story/7530de279988dac79c049027aa100d7e" rel="nofollow - News media .

This is already having a major impact on businesses such as Nufarm Limited https://www.fool.com.au/company/Nufarm+Limited/?ticker=ASX-NUF" rel="nofollow - (ASX: NUF) which was heavily sold off after its market update recently.

The CEO of Nufarm, Greg Hunt, said “We’re facing a perfect storm here in the Australian market, with the dry conditions leading to a poor winter crop, an over supply of products and increased competition across our sector. The whole agricultural supply chain is feeling the impact of this year’s extremely dry conditions.”

These comments were echoed by David McKeon, the CEO of Grain Growers, who said “What a season like this demonstrates is that the impact of drought isn’t just felt at the farm gate, but right through every rural community and right throughout supply chains. It impacts everything from the number of children at local schools to government funding decisions on health services once communities start to lose numbers.”

Finally, Tony Mahar, the CEO National Farmers’ Federation, said “Farmers have sown winter crops that are not up out of ground or, if they are, are not taking off. Droughts are regular and people know they are coming, but you don’t know how bad they are going to be. How bad is it at the moment? It is bad and we don’t know how much worse it is going to get.”

Sounds bad, right?

We don’t yet know which agricultural businesses are going to affected the most. Could it be Australian Agricultural Company Ltd https://www.fool.com.au/company/Australian+Agricultural+Company+Ltd%E2%80%99s/?ticker=ASX-AAC" rel="nofollow - (ASX: AAC) ? Select Harvests Limited https://www.fool.com.au/company/Select+Harvests+Limited/?ticker=ASX-SHV" rel="nofollow - (ASX: SHV) ? Costa Group Holdings Ltd https://www.fool.com.au/company/Costa+Group+Holdings+Ltd/?ticker=ASX-CGC" rel="nofollow - (ASX: CGC) ? Or perhaps Graincorp Ltd https://www.fool.com.au/company/Graincorp+Ltd/?ticker=asx-gnc" rel="nofollow - (ASX: GNC) ? We may soon find out in reporting season.

This could turn out to be like insurance companies with a natural disaster. The initial insurance payout is a big hit to the company. But then in future years it can raise prices at a rate much faster than inflation.

How to profit in the near future

There is one company on the ASX called Duxton Water Ltd https://www.fool.com.au/company/Duxton+Water+Ltd/?ticker=ASX-D2O" rel="nofollow - (ASX: D2O) which owns water entitlements and leases them out to agricultural businesses. It says its objective is to generate annual income through capitalising on the increasing demand for scarce water resources.

Water becomes much more valuable in a drought. Duxton Water’s net asset value (NAV) per share has risen from around $1.05 at September 2016 to $1.27 at the end of June 2018, which also doesn’t include paying 4.7 cents of dividends.

According to Duxton, the Murray Darling Basin had one of the driest January to June periods on record and the driest since 1986. The drier conditions resulted in increased irrigation requirements in a number of regions.

Many irrigators ran short or overused their available allocations, meaning they had to balance their water accounts by 30 June, which saw prices rise.

The 2019 water season is beginning with lower storage volumes and drier forecast conditions, leading to lower water availability.

I hope for all stakeholders involved that it does rain a bit more, no-one wishes suffering on farmers, communities or animals. I can understand some people not wishing to profit from the situation, I respect that line of thinking.

However, I think Duxton Water could be the best way to invest to get exposure to this current trend that may only get worse in the future as demand for food continues to rise.

https://www.fool.com.au/free-stock-report/japanese-billionaires-prediction-will-give-you-goosebumps/?source=adispp7410000045&placement=pitch&adname=AU_SA_AI_8&pid=AU_SA_AI_8&utm_campaign=AU_SA_AI_8" rel="nofollow - Japanese Billionaire's Prediction Will Give You Goosebumps

When a veritable investing and entrepreneurial genius speaks, it pays to listen.

In fact, he's now preparing a $100B "war chest" to invest entirely in this "terrifying" new technology, which could spell huge profits for investors.

https://www.fool.com.au/free-stock-report/japanese-billionaires-prediction-will-give-you-goosebumps/?source=adispp7410000045&placement=pitch&adname=AU_SA_AI_8&pid=AU_SA_AI_8&utm_campaign=AU_SA_AI_8" rel="nofollow - Click here to learn about this technology and how you can profit!

https://www.fool.com.au/" rel="nofollow - Motley Fool contributor http://my.fool.com/profile/Trist/info.aspx" rel="nofollow - Tristan Harrison owns shares of COSTA GRP FPO and DUXTON FPO. The Motley Fool Australia owns shares of and has recommended COSTA GRP FPO. We Fools may not all hold the same opinion.

https://www.fool.com.au/2018/07/31/how-to-profit-from-australias-current-severe-regional-drought/



Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Yes it's bad, but we have actually seen it all before.

So why apply a band-aid to a broken leg?

Spend the money NOW - build dams and irrigate.

Fcuk the Greenies.

 

Do you need a hand with your cost/benefit of all these new dams Doc?

There are already nearly 150 in NSW. How many do you reckon we will need and where? 

Maybe we should spend that $50 billion bank gift on them instead.


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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 11:13am
They built the Harbour Bridge , The Opera House etc, years ago but today, can't harvest the abundance of water for use in the South.
Great job for the unemployed and the guests of Australia's best real estate = ( Long Bay Gaol ).
They can pipe fuel across Europe so why not water in Australia.

   Now that the abnormal have been appeased.


Posted By: TIGER
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 11:27am
This is always swept under the carpet, let's just worry about plastic bags and plastic straws

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EAD


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:36pm
Tillegra Dam was stopped by the greenies.


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animals before people.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:36pm
Australians are if not the world heavyweight champs of water use, then certainly title contenders. Much of it wasted. In the driest continent on Earth. Massive gains available simply in efficiency.

And that’s not even considering food wastage. It takes an awful lot of water to grow our food (especially things like beef, sugar and rice) and we throw around a third of it away, at the added cost of 20 billion a year to the economy.





Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Tillegra Dam was stopped by the greenies.



About

No Tillegra Dam Group (NTDG) is a community-based, grass roots organisation that was formed by concerned citizens in protest at the sudden announcement by the NSW Government that a dam is proposed that would flood prime farmland and disrupt a farming community with a history spanning up to six generations.



Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:46pm
Yeah, we know all that.   They didnt mind selling their land to Hunter Water at about 3 times its real value tho.


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animals before people.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Tillegra Dam was stopped by the greenies.



About

No Tillegra Dam Group (NTDG) is a community-based, grass roots organisation that was formed by concerned citizens in protest at the sudden announcement by the NSW Government that a dam is proposed that would flood prime farmland and disrupt a farming community with a history spanning up to six generations.



Hunter Water spokesman Jeremy Bath said he is pleased the land sale has been finalised.

" Hunter Water, I think it is fair to say, is very relieved," he said.

"The reality is that both sides of politics are strongly opposed to the dam.

" The science never supported it and I think overwhelmingly the community have come to understand that there is no point building a dam that was going to cost in the vicinity of half a billion dollars if it was going to cause environmental damage."



Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Where do you get off introducing the ABC piece about the severe drought conditions in NSW with "For all you latte sipping, china loving, superannuation endorsed, more concerned about american politics, i present......."

Do you think you're the only one who cares?  Do you think people of your political persuasion are the only ones to care?  

Ok I'm slightly left of Centre, however in another life I led a small team that developed Farm Management deposits which are now being pushed by the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources as one answer to the financial plight that farmers currently find themselves in.  And I worked with people of all persuasions who had a common goal to support Australian agriculture through a whole series of initiatives including research and development and marketing of product.

The situation has naff all to do with latte sippers, or the Chinese.  And to suggest that the people you apparently despise don't care is a totally insulting inference.



After this reveal, do you think you made a difference? Has it improved, stayed the same, or gone backwards?
Ps caring is one thing, doing something practical about it, is another. 


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Drought-hit farmers urged to apply for government assistance payment

By regional affairs reporter Anna Henderson, Sunday July 29, 2018 - 00:17 EST

Some drought-hit farmers have said they cannot afford basic items and food. - ABC
Up to 15,000 farmers who are eligible for a Federal Government drought assistance payment have not applied for it, according to new figures.

Drought-ravaged farmers can apply for the Farm Household Allowance (FHA), a payment equivalent to the unemployment benefit.

Since 2014 about 8,000 people have accessed it.

But about almost double that number may be eligible and have not made an application, according to the Agriculture Department.



Funny thing this drought. The city doesn't feel it until the supermarkets hit them or our media decide to show a morsel or two. Or they see it first hand.

Channel 7 news Brisbane again, they are the nearest thing we have to the pro Democrat media in the USA. Last night they reveal to Australians that the federal government has finally swallowed the bullet and decided to assist the drought effected areas.

No mention of the fact that fed gov has had assistance since 2014 according to my partly quote post from Gay3.

Qld's Labor premier stands up and grandstands to show how the fed gov has let them down.
Yet it is her beloved Labor who mostly effected the Murray Darling's floodplains by giving revolting high amounts of water run off to Qld properties. Yes including Cubbie. Lower your head in shame ALP Qld.

Grey nomads passing through here stop over at the FREE camping area.
They come from the south and bring 2 things with them according to rural Qlders.
1. A change of underpants.
2. A $10 note.
And they never change either during their travels.

That's not my description of them, just what it has been for decades. Country Qlders have some colourful descriptions of city people.

Two yesterday stopped us in the street to ask directions that would bi-pass the drought effected areas. After receiving the right directions (you'd have to go back to the city where everything is Green) they went on to try for some chit chat.
"We watched the news before we left Sydney and saw how the country is now drought effected....."
After being told how long it has been going on they were gobsmacked.
"We were headed out west but it sounds like it might be a good place to stay away from"
Although if they went there they would see first hand what is happening, and their spendings would assist the rural communities. But no, "it sounds too harsh."
"We do hope the PM gets off his ass and helps................"
They had no idea that farmers could access assistance from the fed gov.
"We read about a Green senator who said farmers should be re-educated on farming practices......."
Well.........they come from the city so they listen to anyone on the idiot box with a Green agenda.

So it's only a real drought with catastrophic effects when the media decide to say it is.


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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: crooked_gambler
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 2:44pm
Best way to help out the farmers, is to stop off at those little towns, buy an ice cream or a drink. Sure it may cost $10 for a coffee but every little bit helps.

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This space has been intentionally left blank


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 2:47pm
We get floods and we get droughts.
It's a pity we can't let nature take it's natural course which worked wonders for Australia before we arrived here.

Anyone who thinks building dams on the Murray/Darling is a good idea has not looked into the drought much at all.

It's these dams that hold back water that used to naturally irrigate the floodplains and fill the farmer's earth tanks. This is where the sheep and cattle graze. You cannot duplicate that type of flooding with cold water from a dam.

The Darling river has dried up in the past. But only since water allocations were introduced as a way for the Qld gov to make money. Probably back in Joh's time when it started, if not before. But it got out of control and now they can't find a way to take back those water allocations without BUYING them. Or more to the point, having the federal government BUY it.

And every politician in the past is partly to blame. Because they can't agree on a solution to the Murray/Darling crisis. State borders are the big one. Qld says it's ours because the rain fell here. NSW and Vic say it's ours because it flows through here naturally. And Sth Oz............well they've still got the Barossa Valley. And a salty Murray River.

The only water that is wasted in a flood is the water that floods through the northern waterways in torrents that southerners only see when the media decide to show them.
The water from the Herbert River when in flood is the best, most reliable and closest to the south of Qld and the rest of Australia. But it isn't always in flood. The cost scares off every politician. How could they possibly budget for such a vast system of pipelines. They would win the first election because the city people would all say "yes" to the cost because it makes them feel good inside. But once it isn't the flavour of the month that party would be under too much pressure. So, we probably won't ever see it happen , in our lifetimes.



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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

Best way to help out the farmers, is to stop off at those little towns, buy an ice cream or a drink. Sure it may cost $10 for a coffee but every little bit helps.

So true. That is why towns have free camping areas.


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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

[QUOTE=Gay3]

Drought-hit farmers urged to apply for government assistance payment

By regional affairs reporter Anna Henderson, Sunday July 29, 2018 - 00:17 EST

Some drought-hit farmers have said they cannot afford basic items and food. - ABC
Up to 15,000 farmers who are eligible for a Federal Government drought assistance payment have not applied for it, according to new figures.

Drought-ravaged farmers can apply for the Farm Household Allowance (FHA), a payment equivalent to the unemployment benefit.

Since 2014 about 8,000 people have accessed it.

But about almost double that number may be eligible and have not made an application, according to the Agriculture Department.



Funny thing this drought. The city doesn't feel it until the supermarkets hit them or our media decide to show a morsel or two. Or they see it first hand.

Channel 7 news Brisbane again, they are the nearest thing we have to the pro Democrat media in the USA. Last night they reveal to Australians that the federal government has finally swallowed the bullet and decided to assist the drought effected areas.

No mention of the fact that fed gov has had assistance since 2014 according to my partly quote post from Gay3.

Qld's Labor premier stands up and grandstands to show how the fed gov has let them down.
Yet it is her beloved Labor who mostly effected the Murray Darling's floodplains by giving revolting high amounts of water run off to Qld properties. Yes including Cubbie. Lower your head in shame ALP Qld.
not quite right blaming one state government , we really need a federal government approach to water management- this quote below from the SMH


Yet even if the Cubbie storages were full, the tyranny of distance means the release of that water would have little effect on the lower Murray. Queensland rivers supply only about 4 per cent of the Murray's flow and Cubbie draws 0.28 per cent on average. Furthermore, the Murray Darling Basin Authority estimates as little as 20 per cent of any water released in the north would reach the Lower Lakes.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Yes it's bad, but we have actually seen it all before.

So why apply a band-aid to a broken leg?

Spend the money NOW - build dams and irrigate.

Fcuk the Greenies.

 

Do you need a hand with your cost/benefit of all these new dams Doc?

There are already nearly 150 in NSW. How many do you reckon we will need and where? 

Maybe we should spend that $50 billion bank gift on them instead.
Hahahaha! ... no CNNPT, I haven't done the cost/benefits, and I wouldn't be relying on your "back of coaster" calculations thanks!LOL  ... whatever the cost, I'm sure it will be much less than the renewable scam is costing us.

... but surely the ability to create "renewable" hydroelectric energy will ensure that every new dam will be cash flow positive, even without subsidies? ... oh that's right, the rent seekers already have their preferred subsidised renewables to invest in, and they ain't taking a pay cut for anyone.

Of course, the alternative is to simply stop giving money to stupid people who insist on farming in unsustainable areas, and just let them go bust - would that be your solution? ... or are you a "cloud seeding" kind of guy?Dead

Do you have a suggestion, other than spending everyone elses money?Confused


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Tillegra Dam was stopped by the greenies.



About

No Tillegra Dam Group (NTDG) is a community-based, grass roots organisation that was formed by concerned citizens in protest at the sudden announcement by the NSW Government that a dam is proposed that would flood prime farmland and disrupt a farming community with a history spanning up to six generations.



Hunter Water spokesman Jeremy Bath said he is pleased the land sale has been finalised.

" Hunter Water, I think it is fair to say, is very relieved," he said.

"The reality is that both sides of politics are strongly opposed to the dam.

" The science never supported it and I think overwhelmingly the community have come to understand that there is no point building a dam that was going to cost in the vicinity of half a billion dollars if it was going to cause environmental damage."


You can forget everything else, there's your answer ... weak government bending over for fcuking Greenies!Dead

I'm not giving any money to stupid people who don't learn from history, and i don't want the government giving my taxes to them either - if you want to try to graze animals or grow crops in a desert, and you will not adapt your practices to achieve that, you are stupid. We don't give money to other self employed people who have unsound business plans and practices, just to enable them to hope things will go well, if they keep on going broke doing the same thing over and over again ... let natural selection take it's course.

STOP DROUGHT RELIEF PACKAGES NOW!!!Thumbs Down


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 3:51pm
this quote below from the SMH


Yet even if the Cubbie storages were full, the tyranny of distance means the release of that water would have little effect on the lower Murray. Queensland rivers supply only about 4 per cent of the Murray's flow and Cubbie draws 0.28 per cent on average. Furthermore, the Murray Darling Basin Authority estimates as little as 20 per cent of any water released in the north would reach the Lower Lakes.

Firstly , any water release cannot and will not have the same effect as flood water. Floodwater is warm because it spreads across the floodplains. Between Cubbie Station and The Barwon River where the floodplain would once become inundated and soak the soil, well it would be impossible to replicate that with cold water which is released from the bottom of a dam. The only answer is to stop the water being dammed and kept in surplus so that it can be sold to the federal government.

Stories from aboriginal elders in the Brewarrina and Goodooga regions about the roar of water approaching from the Culgoa and adjacent gorges are very clear in my memory from when I was an infant. No it doesn't often make it to the Murray because it is soaked into the floodplain, but what does re-enter the river system ignites the right temperature for the river's ecosystem to thrive. You can't get that from cold water releases. There isn't enough water released anyway. What water is released is purchased from Cubbie Station for irrigation in NSW. Some is expected to make it to the Murray, but only if the other river systems in NSW are also running and joining the flow.

And I did say all politicians, but the Cubbie episode is now legendary.
I've mentioned it before more than once.

One good move for the river system but maybe not for the rural economy immediately is to ban all cotton growing unless they use dryland cropping practises like the NSW farmers and graziers have to do downstream. Cubbie Station's managers would be up in arms.


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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Tillegra Dam was stopped by the greenies.



About

No Tillegra Dam Group (NTDG) is a community-based, grass roots organisation that was formed by concerned citizens in protest at the sudden announcement by the NSW Government that a dam is proposed that would flood prime farmland and disrupt a farming community with a history spanning up to six generations.



Hunter Water spokesman Jeremy Bath said he is pleased the land sale has been finalised.

" Hunter Water, I think it is fair to say, is very relieved," he said.

"The reality is that both sides of politics are strongly opposed to the dam.

" The science never supported it and I think overwhelmingly the community have come to understand that there is no point building a dam that was going to cost in the vicinity of half a billion dollars if it was going to cause environmental damage."


You can forget everything else, there's your answer ... weak government bending over for fcuking Greenies!Dead

I'm not giving any money to stupid people who don't learn from history, and i don't want the government giving my taxes to them either - if you want to try to graze animals or grow crops in a desert, and you will not adapt your practices to achieve that, you are stupid. We don't give money to other self employed people who have unsound business plans and practices, just to enable them to hope things will go well, if they keep on going broke doing the same thing over and over again ... let natural selection take it's course.

STOP DROUGHT RELIEF PACKAGES NOW!!!Thumbs Down


Was anyone in favour of that dam except the Hunter Water Corporation and Dr E?

Of course E was all in favour of it because the main justification for the dam was climate change.Wink


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 4:44pm
It seems to me, knowing nothing about dams but relying on my vast pool of common sense, that building dams where droughts are common is stupid. You should build dams where there is reliable rainfall. DurGeek Am I right? I will check.

"Dams need reliable water inflows, suitable landscapes to create a reservoir, and water users either near the dam or downstream. Australia has plenty of potential water users, but has typically fallen down on the first two considerations."

"Building dams in areas with marginal water inflow risks even greater storage variability than experienced by the current water storage network. Extending into areas with less-than-ideal landscapes increases the risk of construction cost blowouts or excessive water loss through evaporation.

It is probably no coincidence then that of the six dams to be considered for capital investment in the next 12 months, five are in Tasmania, a state rich in the essential physical (but not necessarily economic) characteristics."



https://theconversation.com/dam-hard-water-storage-is-a-historic-headache-for-australia-33397






Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:09pm
There's one location in Qld that is perfect.

Dams need reliable water inflows, suitable landscapes to create a reservoir,

The Mary River.
But it was knocked on the head because someone found a turtle lives there and that turtle would become extinct if the dam was built.
Whoever, that turtle also lives in and upstream from Borumba Dam which runs into the Mary River.
No no no they say. It's a distant cousin.

So the criteria needs to be upgraded to suit the ever increasing Green population in the cities.

And again the funny thing about the droughts. The Traviston Dam on the Mary was to be built to supply water to the city. Brisbane.

So then follows the other criteria. It has to be a policy that will get the existing gov re-elected.

The electorate of Gympie where the Traveston Dam was to be built changed from party to party because of the proposed dam.

No win situation.


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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:47pm
We all love turtles and frogs, but we are prepared to sacrifice pensioners in winter for expensive, unreliable renewable energy virtue signaling ... it is well and truly past the point where we tell the Greenies to fcuk off.

I don't think I have, at any point, suggested where dams (and I'm not talking holes in the ground with yabbies in them) should be built, but it wouldn't make much sense to build them in a desert Tlaz.

I'm no expert either, but we do seem to have plenty of rainfall along the east coast, much of which just runs off into the ocean - some may even damage the reef!!!Shocked - so it would make sense that the dams be built there, and then pipe water as far as is practical ... and farm THAT land ... simples! ... we might even be able to take control of our immigration problem, and fast track some White South African refugee FARMERS to populate those areas ... but that's another story.

If it is not possible to pipe sufficient water to areas that have mostly been in drought for the past 200+ years, that we are aware of, then people who have farmed those areas in the past should be given concessional options and assistance, to take up land holdings in the newly irrigated, sustainable areas. Should they decline, and wish to continue to farm those drought stricken areas, they do so at their own peril ... and they are not allowed to complain when their stock is dying and the crops are failing, and they have yet again, not taken steps to mitigate the inevitable cyclical problem.

... or we just keep doing what we have done in the past, put bad aids on broken bones, and nothing changes.

 


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

It seems to me, knowing nothing about dams but relying on my vast pool of common sense, that building dams where droughts are common is stupid. You should build dams where there is reliable rainfall. DurGeek Am I right? I will check.

"Dams need reliable water inflows, suitable landscapes to create a reservoir, and water users either near the dam or downstream. Australia has plenty of potential water users, but has typically fallen down on the first two considerations."

"Building dams in areas with marginal water inflow risks even greater storage variability than experienced by the current water storage network. Extending into areas with less-than-ideal landscapes increases the risk of construction cost blowouts or excessive water loss through evaporation.

It is probably no coincidence then that of the six dams to be considered for capital investment in the next 12 months, five are in Tasmania, a state rich in the essential physical (but not necessarily economic) characteristics."



https://theconversation.com/dam-hard-water-storage-is-a-historic-headache-for-australia-33397






Derrr,,,Tillegra was to catch some of that water flowing out to sea in Newcastle Harbour.  There is a much more reliable rainfall in that area than west of the great divide.


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animals before people.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 11:42pm
Tasmania?!

Surely over Bob Browns bodyLOL

even if they catch it in Tasmania how was iit going to get to the mainland? bottled? piped?under the sea? plane tankers i suppose.....

doesnt seem like a lot of common sense applied there.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:41pm
a latte sipper in action/words


NSW farmers don't deserve $1b in drought aid

Aug 1 2018 at 11:00 PM
by Aaron Patrick

Call it redistribution, Nationals style.

Sydney's property boom has left the NSW government flush with so much cash that  https://www.nsw.gov.au/your-government/the-premier/media-releases-from-the-premier/more-than-1-billion-in-support-to-help-farmers-through-worsening-drought/" rel="nofollow - $1 billion in subsidised transport, free government services and other financial aid  being handed out to farmers isn't seen as a big deal.

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian,  https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/500m-more-in-drought-relief-keeps-nats-away-from-wagga/news-story/323290fc1d01a4bd5ac8801310a4387c" rel="nofollow - under pressure from the National Party , on Monday said that $500 million would be added to a $284 million package promised just seven weeks earlier. The money is in addition to about $220 million previously spent helping farms prepare for drought.

Berejiklian portrayed the policy as necessary charity for an industry that can no longer be able to sustain itself in the face of extreme weather. Egged on by the popular press, she played up to the romance of the great Australian farmer: solitary, resourceful, decent and always, always praying for rain."When 99 per cent of the state is in drought, sometimes nothing you do will make a difference, and that's why governments have to step in and help," Berejiklian cooed on morning TV this week. "If there is more to do, we will."But the policy undercuts decades of work by experts and a few principled politicians to encourage farms on the world's driest continent to prepare for and expect droughts. 

Myths and exaggerations

Before it started to break down under the 2010-13 Gillard government, national drought policy treated the failure of rainfall as a common, natural phenomenon.

Droughts weren't natural disasters, the policy said. Farmers were encouraged to treat access to water like any other business risk, including livestock and crop prices, currency fluctuations and interest rates.Still, farmers received major concessions. The tax system was structured to smooth out their income. A class of bank accounts  https://www.ato.gov.au/business/primary-producers/managing-varying-income/farm-management-deposits-scheme/" rel="nofollow - known as farm management deposits  was created to allow farmers to avoid income tax until they chose to withdraw their money, a privilege unavailable to other workers.

About $6.6 billion sits in those tax shelters, benefiting an industry that employs just 200,000 people, including shearers, packers and bookkeepers in a national labour market of 12.5 million,  http://lmip.gov.au/default.aspx?LMIP/GainInsights/IndustryInformation/AgricultureForestryandFishing" rel="nofollow - according to the Department of Jobs and Small Business .

Farmer-victim narrative 

Policymakers know the worst time to decide drought policy is during one. The political temptation is too great; the farmer-victim narrative too powerful.

Under the catchy headline "Silence of the Lambs", one report last weekend described 100 lambs likely to be shot because feed was too expensive, as though the innocent animals would otherwise be destined for lush green fields where they could frolic for the rest of their lives.

When it comes to rural rainfall, definitions have always been fraught. A dairy farmer in Victoria's Western Districts will have a different perspective on what constitutes a dry season than a wheat farmer outside Kalgoorlie.

Drought hyperbole exhibit A: Berejiklian. Even her own public servants don't believe that 99 per cent of NSW is in drought, one of the stated reasons for the $1 billion urban-rural wealth transfer.

"There isn't a single community that isn't feeling the pinch when it comes to the drought," according to Berejiklian. "It's all-pervading all across the state."The NSW Department of Primary Industries estimates that 51.7 per cent of NSW is in drought. A further 48.1 per cent is what it calls "drought affected", an intermediate stage marked by deteriorating conditions where "production is beginning to get tighter".

"Drought affected" farmers  https://edis.dpi.nsw.gov.au/cdi-drought-phases#phase_definitions" rel="nofollow - are encouraged by the department  to sell animals they don't need, "fine tune" their drought plans, and "monitor conditions". Maybe the bureaucrats should have added to the list: "lobby your local MP for more tax breaks and subsidises".

It has been a dry winter. But the state isn't out of water. NSW's fourth-largest water reservoir, Blowering near Canberra, is at 72 per cent capacity. The Torrumbarry Weir on the Murray River is full. 

The Businessman from Snowy River

Experts oppose plans like NSW's, which will cover half the transport costs of livestock, water and feed up to $20,000. Councils will be given money to upgrade roads.

During droughts – ideally before they begin – farmers should reduce their herds and flocks "because prices will be low because animals will be in poor condition," says Canberra University drought-policy specialist Linda Botterill.

Subsidising transport encourages farmers to increase stock at the very time they should be bunkering down and trying to ride out the dry spell. Grazing during droughts is terrible for the land. Hoofed animals damage dry soil, making it harder for farms to recover when the rains return.

Wealthy farmers will benefit. The NSW Rural Assistance Authority confirmed on Wednesday that primary producers who earned $10 million last year could get the money.

Voters don't care. Despite the perennial nature of the debate –  https://theconversation.com/500-years-of-drought-and-flood-trees-and-corals-reveal-australias-climate-history-51573" rel="nofollow - scientists have tracked Australian droughts back 500 years  – Australians are suckers for a farming sob story.

The empathy is almost universal, and spans all classes and political leanings, Botterill's research has established. Coal miners and journalists, not so much.

This sentiment is testament to the power of Australia's early authors and poets, including the great Banjo Paterson, who established a romantic attachment among broader society for rural life. 

The Man from Snowy River's ride is a story still told. But fewer seem to remember that his motivation was the colt from old Regret, which was worth a thousand pound.




Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:44pm
headline from the source above. how cynical.

Rainfall across NSW undercuts farmer-victim message


lets hope they get  a lot of follow up rain.


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:51pm
Why is this a new thing as something we suddenly "should" have an opinion about? It's been going on for a while. Suddenly it's a Thing.
Whatever happened to domestic violence? I reckon that if you care about domestic violence more than droughts this week you're an ignorant, unfeeling bastard.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:51pm
The embrace could have been made for TV. Perhaps it was.

On a dry-as-bones farm near the township of Trangie in Central NSW on Sunday, Malcolm Turnbull hugged a teared-up farmers' advocate overcome with emotion after  https://www.afr.com/news/peak-body-defends-taxpayer-help-as-farmers-wait-in-vain-for-rain-20180804-h13kfr" rel="nofollow - another $190 million government handout .

The following day something unexpected happened: it rained. In the 24 hours after Turnbull visited, Trangie received five millimetres of rain, according to the Bureau of Meteorology.

From a sprinkling in Bourke in the north-west to a touch of wet near Cooma in the southern highlands, rain fell across a large part of NSW on Monday morning. Bathurst reported a solid 10 millimetres on Sunday and Monday morning. The town received nearly twice the amount of rain on Friday as for the whole month of July,  https://www.westernadvocate.com.au/story/5567084/more-welcome-rain-as-august-is-off-to-a-wet-start-in-bathurst/?src=rss" rel="nofollow - the local newspaper joyfully reported .he undrought-like weather was unfortunate timing for the farmer-victim narrative being baked into the public consciousness by farmer lobbyists, politicians and the media.

'Farm Rescue' gets wet

The Seven Network was on the first day of a week-long "Farm Rescue" to "take help to the communities that really need it most". Reporting live from Coonabarabran, about two hours' drive from Trangie, Seven's journalist said: "It's been raining for the last three hours ... so our presence here is very welcome."

A bit of rain doesn't mean the drought is over, and the state remains dry. Over the past month patches of NSW have reported their lowest rainfall ever in July.

None other than Premier Gladys Berejiklian declared last week that "99 per cent" of the state is in drought, which she used to justify subsidies that may encourage farmers to expand sheep and cattle stocks when they should be selling or slaughtering them.But  https://www.afr.com/news/politics/experts-question-drought-severity-farmer-subsidies-20180803-h13iws" rel="nofollow - experts are sceptical  about an assertion by the Prime Minister, himself a cattle and sheep farmer in NSW's Hunter Valley, that "this is one of the worst droughts on record".

A run-of-the-mill drought

Over the past three years only one-third of NSW has reported below-average rainfall, according to weather bureau data, which doesn't qualify as a major drought for most experts. In Queensland the figure is about the same. Areas of both states have had above-average rainfalls too, driving up property prices.

"What it really takes to make a drought go from run-of-the-mill to extraordinary is if it persists for eight or nine years," says Anthony Kiem, a hydrologist at the University of Newcastle.Climate scientists say Australia has suffered three severe droughts since written records began: the Federation drought in the late 1800s and early 1990s, the World War II drought from 1935 to 1945, and the Millennium drought in the late 1990s to 2010.

In climatology, 100 years is not such a long period. By analysing ice cores and tree rings, scientists believe that Australian droughts going back to AD1100 may have lasted as long as 39 years – a modern person's entire working life.

Short-term memories

The short-term focus on weather frustrates experts, who see the political system reacting to a perennial problem with short-term and sometimes counterproductive policies."When there is a drought people say we should do this but as soon as it rains everyone forgets about it," Dr Kiem says.

Ironically, while Liberal political leaders use the drought to close their empathy deficits (Turnbull on TV Sunday: "We are a government of compassion and practical action"), the two Nationals ministers overseeing the day-to-day response emphasise farmers' responsibility to prepare for dry spells.

"Not everyone is going to survive," federal Agriculture Minister David Littleproud told the ABC on Monday morning. "You can't enjoy the fruits of the market economy without fear of failure."

"The worst time to talk about drought policy is in a drought," says his NSW counterpart Niall Blair.

Billions in tax shelters

For all the outpouring of emotion, few people realise that Australian primary producers have $6.6 billion sitting in authorised tax shelters established for droughts and other periods of low income.

Farmers haven't missed out on a land boom that has driven up city prices either. The average price of farmland grew 7.1 per cent last financial year,  http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-05-02/farmland-values-report-shows-median-price-rise/9713822" rel="nofollow - according to Rural Bank , a subsidiary of the Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, and has risen 6.6 per cent a year since 1998.

As for  https://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/5566781/drought-awareness-campaigner-breaks-down-in-tears-talking-to-prime-minister/?cs=112" rel="nofollow - the woman who tearfully hugged the Prime Minister on Sunday, making the evening news  – one reporter called it "knee-buckling emotion" – Edwina Robertson is a Toowoomba wedding photographer who set up an advocacy campaign to draw attention to the drought.Ms Robertson's evocative photos of parched livestock and dusty fields have worked. Government money is flowing, and some farmers are now going to receive unemployment benefits.

Like any persistent lobbyist, she isn't satisfied though. "Our money is going to come from charitable help," she told a local newspaper after crying in front of Turnbull. "We need Aussies to get together. [It] is not going to come from the government."

Meanwhile, the national drought strategy has collapsed, and conditions for farming may become even tougher. "I think we need to assume we are going to see more droughts and rainfall that is less predictable," Turnbull predicted on Sunday.

Maybe it's time to think about farming as a business choice rather than a way of life underwritten by other Australians? Because one day it will start raining again and not stop, and almost no one is going to care about drought policy any more.

more titillating stuff from Aaron Patrick, fin review Aug 6 2018 at 11:00 PM



Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:52pm
Sorry - I forgot that it's all about Awareness.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:59pm
Like this response to the above articles.

Aug 6 2018 at 11:00 PM      The West Australian editorial

T

Criticising aid for farms in grip of drought is un-Australian

  • The West Australian

he devastating drought affecting almost all of rural NSW seems a long way from WA but there is no doubt most West Australians would feel the pain of Eastern States farmers.

We are well aware of the devastating consequences of drought and have faced our own such challenges in WA many times.

Aid for farmers is starting to flow and people are being mobilised across the country.

WA will be able to help in a small way by participating in Bunnings barbecues next Friday in support of Rural Aid’s Buy a Bale campaign. Funds raised will go towards livestock feed and household essentials for drought-affected families and communities in every impacted State. It’s a very Australian way to show support for fellow Aussies on the land who are doing it tough.

What West Aussies would not do is participate in the un-Australian commentary in some Eastern States media.

Australian Financial Review writer Aaron Patrick claimed this week that NSW farmers did not deserve drought aid from the NSW Government.

The thrust of Patrick’s argument was that the tax system was structured to smooth out farmers’ income in a way unavailable to others and they should expect and be prepared for droughts — but that the “farmer-victim narrative” was “too powerful” for politicians to resist.

It was an ill-judged comment piece, no doubt penned in comfort well away from the rural areas which sit on a knife edge.

Patrick initially even managed to misreference Australia’s most loved poem, The Man From Snowy River, to try to help make his case.

Where would this nation be without the rural sector? Australia’s number two TV station might be about to own the number two newspaper company, but those in charge must be concerned that one of those newspapers stands for leaving farmers to starve and stock to die. 



Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 8:53pm
I like the bloke who thinks subsidising transport will encourage farmers to increase stock numbers Wacko  Not even aware its for the transport of fodder and water to dying stock.  Cry
And the other one who says farmers should reduce their numbers before drought begins ???? Cry
No doubt they are the people who believe milk comes from bottles and its OK to wear leather even when sprouting about being vegetarian.


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Why is this a new thing as something we suddenly "should" have an opinion about? It's been going on for a while. Suddenly it's a Thing.
Whatever happened to domestic violence? I reckon that if you care about domestic violence more than droughts this week you're an ignorant, unfeeling bastard.

if you are so concerned start a thread.


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Why is this a new thing as something we suddenly "should" have an opinion about? It's been going on for a while. Suddenly it's a Thing.
Whatever happened to domestic violence? I reckon that if you care about domestic violence more than droughts this week you're an ignorant, unfeeling bastard.


if you are so concerned start a thread.

Lol. I'm gonna start a thread about domestic violence. The forgotten issue. We need to raise awareness about it! Yay!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 10:56pm
isaac, to what extent do you think other industries should receive government assistance during times which (at no fault of their own) there is a downturn?


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:49am
Great point judge - the downturn in the housing market and accordingly, mortgage lending, is hurting the banks - maybe we should give them a tax cut to ensure that they survive ...

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 9:53am
I said through no fault of their own, Doc.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 10:50am
There are the industries which the government shuts down judge when they sell wheat overseas instead of sending the mills running in Australia.  That hurt the country also as most of the mills were in little country towns!


Posted By: crooked_gambler
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 11:31am
Woolworths donating 100% of its profits on fresh fruit and veg, meat, chilled section, bakery, and deli to Buy a Bale

today only.



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Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 11:55am
Thought you were better than that stayer. is about what to expect from judge. Luckily your attitudes are in the minority.

i started the china thread, for those interested. if you dont want to know or read dont look! The heading is clear.

However im sure you will agree there is enough dv during times like these. Sadly.

If you want to highlight that, go ahead.




Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 12:37pm

Joe Hildebrand writes: The inside story of a town in drought

JOE Hildebrand travelled to some of the areas hit hardest from the drought plaguing NSW. This is the incredible story of survival.


“LOOK! Look at this!”

Farmer Sarah Edmonds is running across the road holding out her phone. “This is what I’m talking about!”

She shows me the screen. It’s a comment from some deranged animal rights activist abusing her for, well, owning animals.

I’d been talking to Sarah because a few days earlier she had written a Facebook post that had been shared by 22,000 people — which is quite a feat given that’s approximately 22 times the entire population of the nearest town.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/joe-hildebrand-writes-the-inside-story-of-a-town-in-drought/news-story/389a583b82ebc0ba961b14dd08540ff5" rel="nofollow - www.news.com.au/technology/environment/joe-hildebrand-writes-the-inside-story-of-a-town-in-drought/news-story/389a583b82ebc0ba961b14dd08540ff5




Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 12:41pm
Gee Isaac, I didn’t give an opinion either way, just asked a question. Which, I note, you didn’t answer.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Great point judge - the downturn in the housing market and accordingly, mortgage lending, is hurting the banks - maybe we should give them a tax cut to ensure that they survive ...


Gees DOC your slipping ...   What about a collection for AGL energy ,

Posted a 1.5 billion profit yesterday .


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Why is this a new thing as something we suddenly "should" have an opinion about? It's been going on for a while. Suddenly it's a Thing.
Whatever happened to domestic violence? I reckon that if you care about domestic violence more than droughts this week you're an ignorant, unfeeling bastard.


if you are so concerned start a thread.

Lol. I'm gonna start a thread about domestic violence. The forgotten issue. We need to raise awareness about it! Yay!


STAYER --- Start by making deceitful infidelity a mandatory 20 years.

Get Barnaby out of our hair but he is coming back a hero.

We now have the morals of alley cats.


Posted By: crooked_gambler
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:04pm
Copy from Facebook


PLEASE SHARE
How can I really help a farmer?
Buy a bale will last a day.
Do you really want to help, well go take a look at the drought affected towns. Load the kids, grab your partner and go take a look.You stay in a motel, eat some grub at the pub, dine in a cafe, fuel up in a small town and eat a pie. It will last longer than a buying a bale of hay.
All small towns employ farmers, their kids or partners. Buy a pie it will last longer and keeps a town alive. The worst thing you can see in a country town is when all the shops and services close down that support those on the land because there is no money to go around. It is really the last straw
Think hard about how you will donate. Go take a look, it will help so much. Is your car due for a service, well pick a town,ring and book it in. Take the drive,stay a night or two, eat at the pub, get a haircut, buy some clothes. That's the best donating you can make.

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Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:19pm
That's all pretty spot on crooked_gambler. Thumbs Up

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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:30pm
It's cruel to provide them with false hope.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

I said through no fault of their own, Doc.

How can a downturn in the housing market be the fault of the banks?

Just like climate (and everything else), the housing market is cyclical.

... so you are implying that if you chose to ignore history, you deserve to pay the price?

Agreed!Thumbs Up  


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Great point judge - the downturn in the housing market and accordingly, mortgage lending, is hurting the banks - maybe we should give them a tax cut to ensure that they survive ...


Gees DOC your slipping ...   What about a collection for AGL energy ,

Posted a 1.5 billion profit yesterday .

There's no downturn in energy demand macca ... and no downturn in the greed of AGL.Pig

Disappointing that they couldn't turn 100% of the renewable subsidies into profits though ... too many bonuses to be paid to executives and donations to be paid to GetUp and the other political parties ... Dead 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 5:19pm
Not downplaying the issue, isaac, or having a go at you. Just sick of seeing the media suddenly constantly going on about saving the farmers, when it's been a problem for ages.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

I said through no fault of their own, Doc.


How can a downturn in the housing market be the fault of the banks?

Just like climate (and everything else), the housing market is cyclical.

... so you are implying that if you chose to ignore history, you deserve to pay the price?

Agreed!Thumbs Up  


Nothing at all to with lax lending practices...


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

I said through no fault of their own, Doc.


How can a downturn in the housing market be the fault of the banks?

Just like climate (and everything else), the housing market is cyclical.

... so you are implying that if you chose to ignore history, you deserve to pay the price?

Agreed!Thumbs Up  


Nothing at all to with lax lending practices...

No judge, nothing at all - don't believe what the FAKE NEWS says!

It's a "property cycle", lending practices and default rates are consistent with what they have been for about the past 30 years, and there is no evidence to suggest that they have ever impacted on the numerous property market cycles that we have experienced in that time ... if anything, the current decline is due to irrational tightening of policy as a reaction to the scrutiny from the RC - it's far harder to get money now than it should be.

... and that's regardless of what Bullgelati Bill and the left leaning media would like people to think ... the ALP/Greens understanding of economics is limited to knowing that it is easy to get support when you demonise Banks and Big Business, anyone earning $80k a year is rich, and any individual who attempts to invest personally, to avoid being a future welfare dependent, should be heavily taxed to the point that they never again aspire to anything so evil ... and that's it.

The main things that have affected the property cycles are of course supply and demand, and they are determined primarily by population growth, employment rates and interest rates.

The Banking RC has absolutely verified and validated what we already knew - that our finance and banking industry, with it's stringent regulation, checks and balances, is one of the most robust and ethical in the world - we knew that by the way we survived the GFC.

There are very few rogue operators in the industry, and there are a handful of their clients who "claim" to have been victims of unethical practices (many of them are simply victims of bad luck, or their own greed or stupidity). The incidences of poor or criminal lending practices are no more prevalent than similar indiscretions in any other industry, and in most cases the perpetrators have been caught and dealt with anyway.

It's like all of the drought events we have survived in the past 30-40 years (not to mention the 200 years before that!) - it's a cycle stupid!Wink


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:08am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Gee Isaac, I didn’t give an opinion either way, just asked a question. Which, I note, you didn’t answer.

note away judge, its not worth an answer.

same as you cant give an opinion, either way.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:37am
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Gee Isaac, I didn’t give an opinion either way, just asked a question. Which, I note, you didn’t answer.


note away judge, its not worth an answer.

same as you cant give an opinion, either way.


Or maybe to answer it is to expose you’re own hypocrisy.

Noted


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:38am
“Your”...sorry Whale, wherever you are.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:40am
Ah, fake news again. You like saying “cycle”, don’t you Doc?


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 10:37am
Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 10:41am
But don’t worry Doc. I’m sure these admissions are just a “ cycle”, and the banks will be back to lying their arses off sometime soon.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 11:26am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Gee Isaac, I didn’t give an opinion either way, just asked a question. Which, I note, you didn’t answer.


note away judge, its not worth an answer.

same as you cant give an opinion, either way.


Or maybe to answer it is to expose you’re own hypocrisy.

Noted

hypocrisy in what? if i'm a hypocrite, coming from you, is the pot calling the kettle black.

that i dont have an opinion in/on everything? nah, too much of a mind f***. 

apart from yourself judge, and being a useless stirrer, what are your "pet" projects?

Heartening to see the response from the Australian community, as a whole. However, the theme of THIS thread has borne some at tbv to be otherwise, less than community minded. 


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:11pm
“Pet projects”??? What on earth are you dribbling about now?


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:30pm
Many farmers dont want big handouts.  They just want help to be able to source and transport food and water to their stock, and a bit of a break with the endless bills and fees that go with that.  Shooting your animals isnt much fun.   I think some of the city experts are completely missing the point that fodder supplies are almost gone and its hard to get a few bales to feed the pet horse now,  not to mention how much its gone up in the last 12 months.  OMG I cant even begin to think what a semi load costs , and our area isnt half as bad as out west is.  And when there is a supply it has to be transported, and those trucks dont run on the smell of an oily rag.  The best hearted truckie still has to rego/insure/tyres/fuel his truck, and thats not cheap.  Its the basics that farmers need help with.  If kind hearted people see fit to throw in some extras for the wife and kids, thats good.
All the Uni experts etc that are making suggestions about it  just should get out there and have a look .  Just like you cant get blood from a stone, you cant click your fingers and get rain, and without water it all comes to a stop,  and this scene thats happening now doesnt just affect the farmer, it badly affects whole towns.  Many others will go to the wall without the farming families money coming it to their buisness.  The experts tell us we now have a popultion of 25 mill.  How do we propose to feed them without farms to grow the food for us ?



-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:31pm
Thought so, empty headed contributor is judge.LOL



Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 2:27pm

Defying the drought: Farmers who have braced for the big dry

Marty McCarthy and Aneeta Bhole, Sunday August 12, 2018 - 10:47 EST

There is a drought spreading across eastern Australia and it is severe, but it is not our worst. At least not yet.



There are two major droughts which are stuck in the Australian psyche.

The 1895 to 1902 Federation Drought, during which the Darling and Murray Rivers ran dry. And the Millennium Drought, which ran from late 1996 to mid-2010 and severely affected most southern cropping areas.

In southern parts of Australia, droughts of the late 20th and early 21st centuries have been found to be the worst in the past 400 years, and experts predict they will become more prevalent in the future.

For some farmers, the millennium drought was a turning point, where they realised that if they wanted to keep farming in Australia, they needed to embrace rather than battle an often unpredictable climate.



Spending money when there is none

In NSW's Central West, farmers Laurie and John Chaffey have seen and read the stories about farmers in drought shooting starving livestock that they can't afford to feed.

The Chaffeys don't ever want to be in that position, and that meant being prepared for this drought, and future ones.

"We have never considered [culling], it's not something that we'd do, and it's not really a good outcome we feel for our industry at all," Ms Chaffey said.

They are reducing their cattle herd by half, and instead focusing on looking after their ewes, which is critical given they are all about to lamb.



Cash flow is low at the moment, but the Chaffey's are investing in building "drought lots", small pens where the mothers can give birth and still have access to plenty of food and water.

"You have got to have ewes in a good condition that they want to stay with the lamb and not toddle off where it's dropped," Mr Chaffey said.

"The lots will increase our lamb survival, so at the end we'll hopefully have a good lambing percentage, and we'll protect the ewes with good nutrition."

"It's our way of managing this drought, it's something we have been thinking about doing for a long time but have never done in our 40 years of farming," Mr Chaffey said.

Keeping all their sheep in drought lots, rather than in the paddocks, means the pasture will grow back faster when it rains.

It also means the Chaffeys don't have to sell as much stock, which will help them bounce back quicker when the drought breaks. Their sheep stocking rate is high, despite the drought, at 80 per cent.



The Chaffeys' livestock nutritionist, Nikki Henderson, says she wants to see more farmers in drought affected areas plan ahead, to avoid having animals starving in paddocks.

"This is definitely [an] uncommon thing for this area but it's great what the Chaffeys are doing. I've spent a lot of time in Victoria and South Australia and other areas and I see a lot more people setting up this sort of drought lotting infrastructure for lambing and drought feeding," she said.

In addition to the new drought lots, the Chaffeys also have two sheds full of hay, and three years ago installed silos to store grain, as well as grain they wrapped in plastic and buried 20 years ago.

"Every drought is different and it is all about compromise and adjustment, the further you get the further you need to think about how you can prepare next," Mr Chaffey said.



Ms Henderson, who has clients all through the Central West, said many people are still holding out for rain, rather than putting a long-term feeding strategy in place.

"There are people out there that I'm going to see who you set up with plans and talk about costs to feed through calving and they are still sitting back waiting and not planning ahead far enough to budget those feeds," she said.

Heidi Austin, a district vet with North West Local Land Services, said it can be difficult for farmers faced with the stress and pressure of drought to forward plan. They are just trying to get by day to day.

"I don't know how people are making decisions but they have to make decisions and often they are really hard decisions to make about what to sell, what to buy, when to keep going, when to stop, and seeking out options for when they stop," she said.

"They are feeding animals and it's hard work and physically hard, and my heart just goes out to people in trouble who have animals in trouble from these situations.

"You see it in their eyes, they are doing their hardest to do the right thing and whatever they are doing does not come with a good outcome."

On the positive side of the climate

Some farmers have been through droughts before and know that feeling well. They are desperate to avoid it this time around.

"The main reason we did what we did in our business and as a family was to never ever feel that feeling of hopelessness," Yeoval sheep producer Nigel Kerin said.

After the millennium drought, Mr Kerin decided to modify his business, to take advantage of unpredictable climates and rainfall patterns.

"What we learnt from the droughts in the 1980s and 2000s is that if you flog the living daylights out of your landscape while you are in a dry period, the grass you grow once you come back into average rainfall is bugger all," he said.



He lets his pastures rest by reducing most of his livestock. Currently he only has 20 per cent of his usual herd.

Instead, he "flogs it" when it rains. That doesn't necessarily mean waiting for autumn or winter. It means waiting for rainfall, regardless of what time of year it comes.

"You don't try to make money when it's dry, you set yourself up for when the dry breaks," Mr Kerin said.

Mr Kerin has built this business model around the concept of climate variability, which from a rainfall perspective, refers to how rainfall totals fluctuate above or below the long-term average over time.

Simply put, it means he doesn't expect a certain amount of rain at a certain time of year anymore.

"If it is a drought it's been going for a while. So I don't think it's a drought. I think it's climate variability. It's influxes of rain then extensive periods without it," he said.

"It seems that with climate variability in this district "” and the east coast of Australia "” that we get massive dumps of rain that last for one month, then it takes off and leaves us for four or five months at a time.

"If you can build a business model that fits with climate variability, and matching stocking rate to carrying capacity, you are setting yourself up to be on the positive side of this climate and not on the negative."

Mr Kerin also breeds a type of faster maturing sheep, which means he can grow more animals in a shorter time, to take advantage of any sudden rainfall whenever he gets it.

"They can reproduce at a younger age and it also allows us to sell the wether lambs quicker than what we used to," he said.



"The animals put on weight quicker, which if you've matched stocking rate to capacity, means you've got them at a saleable weight a lot quicker, before the season turns on you again."

As state and federal governments tinker away on policies to encourage farmers to prepare for drought, Mr Kerin says the push should come from farmers themselves.

"It's not so much about what governments can do. It's about if you want to change, if the need for change inside of you is enough to make you want to build a better future," he said.

"The adaption part. You have to tip out everything you know and re-establish a new paradigm of how to do business."

Grass growth and green days

Grazier Ardie Lord from Sutherland Station in north west Queensland doesn't like to use the word drought, even though he's technically been in one for five years.

This year he's only had half his annual rainfall - which he refers to as a "light year" - but he looks for the positives in it.



Mr Lord uses grazing charts to plan 12 months in advance. If he doesn't think he has enough grass to feed his current herd through to the next wet season, he begins to destock.

"The upside of a light year is production is higher [than a dry year] and weight gain per kilogram is higher, you've just got to run less animals," he said.

Currently, he's running around 40 per cent of his usual stock, and says that is "very fortunate" compared to many in north west Queensland. Some have destocked completely.

Critical to his forward planning is making sure he has enough pasture to feed his cattle until the next "green date". It is the date most likely to bring the next amount of decent rainfall "” for Sutherland Station that is around February. It is based on historical records when there is an 80 per cent chance of the wet season starting.

"The first job we have each year is to make sure we're going to see through to the next green date, and adjust our stocking rate to our current capacity accordingly," he said.



The stress during drought often comes from trying to maintain a large herd size, even if they don't have the pasture to feed it.

"If we are having a light year and we're running the appropriate amount of animals it's pretty stress-free," Mr Lord said.

He cautioned farmers against letting their livestock get skinny, to a point they can't be sold.

"It's risky because that's our cashflow and that's our future, so if the animals are losing weight it means we're losing cashflow," he said.

"If we have got the courage to sell them before they get skinny, it's much better to put the money in the bank than hold it.

"As long as they are healthy and can be trucked then there's good value in them."

Carbon farmers capitalise on climate

There's a new category of farming that is helping a lucky few defy the drought in a unique way.

Rather than relying on cattle and sheep for an income, Bourke farmer Michael Marshman makes money off letting trees grow. He's a carbon farmer.



"Trees are fairly resilient so they continue to grow even when rainfall is deficient, but with livestock we all know once it gets dry the money also dries up," Mr Marshman said.

Carbon farming for Mr Marshman means letting mulga regrow in paddocks where grass once did, and sheep used to graze. He can keep the cattle, because they don't pose a threat to the mulga.



The mulga stores carbon, and the Federal Government buys that storage space off him, through the Clean Energy Regulator, in a bid to reduce Australia's overall greenhouse gas emissions.

"I would hate to think what sort of position we'd be in if we didn't have the regular income stream from the carbon farming," Mr Marshman said.



Geoff Dunstan, a grazier from Cunnamulla in Queensland, who has also turned to carbon farming, agrees.

"In a drought you're usually going backwards financially and rapidly working flat out, but at least being in the carbon trade you've got income coming in over that bad period," Mr Dunstan said.

"It is hundreds of thousands of dollars we would not be making in a drought, so it's a real positive in a drought situation."

Not every farmer can go into carbon farming "” it only works with certain vegetation types.

Mr Marshman is re-investing the carbon farming money into other agriculture projects, to help make his business more drought tolerant.

He has bought a small property north of Bourke on the Darling River, where there is a reliable water supply.



"We've moved a percentage of our cattle there to feed them, it's a lot easier to manage a smaller acreage when feeding livestock," Mr Marshman said.

He's also bought a third property at Narromine in NSW "” it is insurance against drought, but also any potential collapse in the carbon farming sector.

"We have a property in a higher rainfall area now, and when it's dry here we can move livestock there, and we have gone for more livestock properties so we aren't just reliant on the carbon farming," he said.

"You never know when the next drought will hit you, so be prepared, invest in infrastructure that helps you be a bit more resilient in dry times that are not expected."

You can see the story on Landline on ABC TV at 12:30pm or on iview.


- ABC

© ABC 2018



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 2:28pm

Why does Australia waste its recycled water when it could be used to irrigate food crops?

Jess Davis, Saturday August 11, 2018 - 11:15 EST


Vegetable grower Marco Mason started using recycled water during the Millennium drought in the early 2000s, when his farm at Werribee west of Melbourne ran out of water.

"We liked the idea of recycled water but at the same time we had no choice, we had the choice of not signing up to recycled water and having to stop planting," he said.

When the drought was over, Mr Mason said he was still reliant on that water.

"I was adamant after the first drought period that we wouldn't need recycled water at all," he said.

"And I was wrong.

"The drought continues, the shortage of rain continues, the weir does not fill up, so we're reliant on recycled water."



A better use?

Research from the University of Melbourne's Foodprint project found that 84 per cent of Melbourne's recycled water was pumped out to sea.

Mr Mason said that water should be used for more schemes like the one at Werribee.

"It's available, it's there, it's only a matter of investing money towards it," he said.

"Does that mean that the government invests that money? Yeah I think the government should be investing money."

On the other side of Melbourne, on the Mornington Peninsula, avocado grower Steven Marshall said he is desperate to get his hands on recycled water.



"It might look green, this season we've had a little bit of rain but our dams still aren't filling," he said.

"We're going to be going right down to the nail."

Just down the road, a pipeline from the Melbourne Water's Eastern Treatment plant is pumping 350 million litres of Class A recycled water out to sea every day.

That quality of water is good enough to irrigate Mr Marshall's crops.

"That's just not being used "” mostly because it can't be seen," Mr Marshall said.

"It's in an underground pipeline "” and if people could see it I reckon it would have got used by now."

Mr Marshall was working with the local council to get a project off the ground that would see that water delivered to farmers.



Mornington Shire Mayor Bryan Payne said it is a disgrace to be wasting so much usable water.

"What we want to do is distribute it across the whole peninsula so we can drought proof the place, we can use it for higher agriculture," he said.

"It should be a bi-partisan type exercise, it's a no-brainer, both Federal and State Governments should fund it to get the infrastructure, to get it up."

That is already happening in South Australia where the Virginia Pipeline Scheme, north of Adelaide had the biggest recycled water program in the country.

It was set up in 1999 and is set for a major expansion with both state and federal funding.

Too expensive

Anne-Maree Boland, an agricultural and environmental consultant, said that recycled water schemes do not often get over the line because they are too expensive.

"One of the problems is you need to move it from where its produced which is often in major cities, to where the agriculture is," Dr Boland said.

"So peri-urban agriculture is a really good use of recycled water but it needs to be moved to those areas."

Funding for pipelines is needed to transport this water, but it comes at a high price, including the cost of electricity used to move it.



The closer farmland is to a city, the cheaper it will be.

Feasibility studies are currently underway in Sydney and on the Darling Downs in Queensland but Dr Boland said business plans do not take into account less tangible benefits.

"We don't consider some of the other benefits such as environmental benefits and the fact we're freeing up another water source," she said.

And Dr Boland said there tended to be a lot of interest in recycled water when we are in the grips of drought, but it is often forgotten later once the rains come.

"But we should be really thinking about the future and drought proofing ourselves," she said.

"So looking at the best sources of water for different purposes."


- ABC

© ABC 2018



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 2:56pm
One thing about this drought.  Back in the early 1980's we were on a property bought in the hunter valley to supply fodder to two properties out Mudgee way which were is a pretty bad way with no water.  It was a drought in the hunter but with irrigation from the river the small place feed the other two until the drought broke and they sold the place.  This time the hunter is dry - much dryer that that drought.  

We were in the hunter before the mines appeared.  This was back in the day of dairies and horses and grapes vineyards (on a smaller area than today).  I don't know but have the mines actually made it worst because of all the water they also need?  Has a study been done into how the two practices can live better with each other without injuring the land and it's ability to jump back from the floods and droughts which affect us.  Because this drought will break and when it does it will be a flood which will wash away any topsoil which the wind hasn't in the mean time.  

Also yes farmers have to move with the times.  But to make ends meet dairies have had to expand due to the less money for milk etc.  Or do what relatives have done and gone into more butterfat production.  In times of drought they can't just get rid of their herds.  Most dairies are on pretty good viable land - they have to be for get the milk production.  But even so the whole state is effected one way or another and yes feed is getting short even from other states which are not effected by drought at this present time.  They have to also put aside some of what they are producing for the lean times which will come their way.

So with all the good will in the world until we can sort out water problems to any area in Australia where agriculture is practiced this cycle will not stop.


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:13pm
One way that many graziers have turned to after being advised by their DPI is to instal fodder factories.
Using mainly barley for fodder matts is very productive if used right.
But, with so much of the southern states already affected by the drought the fodder factories can't access enough barley for the stock.

The larger buyers like feedlots get first option because they buy the most and are therefore the growers preferred customer.

Lots of money invested (presumably wisely at first) and then the grazier is left with no grain and less money to buy other sources of feed.

I saw one load turn up yesterday. The first one in 6 months. No idea where from though. It must be raining somewhere.


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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Ah, fake news again. You like saying “cycle”, don’t you Doc?

Just trying to educate you and the other morons judge - if you don't understand cycles, and you keep ignoring history, you will never understand anything.Dead 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:16pm
The idea of keeping your stock in smaller paddocks for feeding and thereby relieving the pressure on the man grazing pastures is not a new idea. It was first used when I was in high school, and I'm now retired.

The biggest drawback was that if for instance you kept your ewes for lambing in smaller compounds you got the following:
1. The pasture was rested. Big tick.
2. The grazier doesn't have to cover as much ground when feeding. Big tick.
3. Sheep droppings became a problem because the sheep had nowhere clean to lay down or to lamb. Big X.
4. In order to keep some areas clean enough the amount of time and money to remove the droppings made it less attractive. Big X.
5. With that amount of manure and urine to deal with it became less clean and therefore more likely to nurture parasites and germs. Big X.

Feedlots with cattle get around it because they don't breed.
They seem to be doing ok, looking from the outside that is.


-------------
I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:28pm
Out west where the rainfall is always low the farmers and graziers haven't been sitting back on their hands as much as some people would have us believe.

Lazer leveling paddocks for pasture in areas that get low rainfall means there is less runoff. It's been happening now for a decade or so, maybe even longer for all I know.
And it isn't cheap.
This is being done with the floodplains as well. Using natural grasses which are more suited to the Australian outback environment the paddocks are producing much better yields. Unfortunately the really bad droughts are the ones that have seen no reasonable rise in river heights because of lucrative water allocations (Yes there it is again). Without the floodwater these paddocks don't get the soaking they used to get.

It's not like the farmers just sit back and wait for rain while shooting their stock.
They are on an endless hunt for new dryland farming practices that will bring in a dollar without having to rely on handouts.


-------------
I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776

Banking royal commission: Lax lending by banks could see our debt problem come crashing down

 

MORE FAKE NEWS? Thanks judge!Clap

Hahahaha! ... are you seriously relying on the ABC for economic "opinions" (that's all this is)? ... you do recall them sacking "Emma the Pretend Economics Editor" because of her lack of basic economic knowledge? ... you seem to have obtained your own knowledge from the same Corn Flakes packet as she did!LOL

BTW, if you actually bothered to read that article, can you tell me WHO said or even implied that there was an imminent debt problem? ... you should recognise the bankers statements as simple deflection 101, straight out of CNNPT's play book.Embarrassed

You would do well to just put this "The Sky is Falling!!!" headline, alongside all of the other politically motivated crap the ABC comes up with ... opinions that are constantly disproved, or simply never eventuate, shall we ... Wink

 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:40pm
Also so much of the media bringing attention to the plight of the land being a tad late.  It's better late than never.  At least they have the power to get people aware who never ever step out of the city - so they just don't know.  


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:41pm
crooked gambler we did the same sort of thing after the last big fires through the mountains.  The tourists stopped coming and businesses were hurting so we'd go up for a night and do some shopping and eating in different towns.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

But don’t worry Doc. I’m sure these admissions are just a “ cycle”, and the banks will be back to lying their arses off sometime soon.

Good! You're catching on judge!Clap 

... that's very satisfying for me, and justifies my perseverance with you!!Thumbs Up


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:47pm
... funny how these cycles and outcomes repeat themselves isn't it judge ... we see the same thing after the Unions RC ... they were all circumspect and promised vigilant compliance to the laws of the land ... didn't take them long to return to their criminal conduct, did it! ... it's a cycle stoopid!Big smile

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

crooked gambler we did the same sort of thing after the last big fires through the mountains.  The tourists stopped coming and businesses were hurting so we'd go up for a night and do some shopping and eating in different towns.

That's very cruel furious ... by doing that, you are just creating false economies - unless you intend doing that forever ... and then what happens to your own local businesses?

It's like subsidising a dying car manufacturing industry ... giving some short term money to encourage unsustainable business models (like farming in deserts without reliable irrigation) does nothing to help those people ... you are just setting them up for more disappointment and financial devastation.

All it does is makes you feel better, even though it's not your fault ... and if you can't artificially prop up every failing business in the country, how is it even fair?

Charles Darwin had it right.


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 5:05pm
Those in strife appear to have simply not planned for dry times, according to these farmers.
I found this extremely interesting & a refreshing change to all the doom n gloom stories.

Landline

http://abc.net.au/news/2018-08-11/defying-the-drought:-the-farmers-who-seem-to-be/10109792" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/news/2018-08-11/defying-the-drought:-the-farmers-who-seem-to-be/10109792


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776

<h1 id="skip-to--ing" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.25em; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; font-family: ABCSans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; line-height: 1.2em; letter-spacing: -1px; : rgb249, 249, 249;">Banking royal commission: Lax lending by banks <span style="font-weight: normal;">could</span>see our debt problem come crashing down</h1> 

MORE FAKE NEWS? Thanks judge!Clap

Hahahaha! ... are you seriously relying on the ABC for economic "opinions" (that's all this is)? ... you do recall them sacking "Emma the Pretend Economics Editor" because of her lack of basic economic knowledge? ... you seem to have obtained your own knowledge from the same Corn Flakes packet as she did!LOL

BTW, if you actually bothered to read that article, can you tell me WHO said or even implied that there was an imminent debt problem? ... you should recognise the bankers statements as simple deflection 101, straight out of CNNPT's play book.Embarrassed

You would do well to just put this "The Sky is Falling!!!" headline, alongside all of the other politically motivated crap the ABC comes up with ... opinions that are constantly disproved, or simply never eventuate, shall we ... Wink

 


So you don’t know what a “deflection” is either? We’ll add that to the list...


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:04pm
Dr E it wasn't false.  It was replacing a tourist from England or USA who saw fires and thought the whole of the mountains were black so went to another place.  It happens.  I've a daughter who is a tour guide.  They have had a very good winter but usually have a quiet time.  So they take their holidays etc in that period.  Likewise you would find businesses who would work around the good and bad times.  But when a fire happens tourists think a fire a lithgow for instance means their holiday in Katoomba is not worthwhile so they cancel the trip and go to Queensland or Victoria ect.  You are just helping them keep going till people come back.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:06pm
And we have often had holidays in the mountains - walking and eating and enjoying the scenery almost in our backyard.  We go up there to markets all the time also.  Daughter is up there creating money flow probably three times a week.  All good.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 2:58am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776

<h1 id="skip-to--ing" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.25em; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; font-family: ABCSans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; line-height: 1.2em; letter-spacing: -1px; : rgb249, 249, 249;">Banking royal commission: Lax lending by banks <span style="font-weight: normal;">could</span>see our debt problem come crashing down</h1> 

MORE FAKE NEWS? Thanks judge!Clap

Hahahaha! ... are you seriously relying on the ABC for economic "opinions" (that's all this is)? ... you do recall them sacking "Emma the Pretend Economics Editor" because of her lack of basic economic knowledge? ... you seem to have obtained your own knowledge from the same Corn Flakes packet as she did!LOL

BTW, if you actually bothered to read that article, can you tell me WHO said or even implied that there was an imminent debt problem? ... you should recognise the bankers statements as simple deflection 101, straight out of CNNPT's play book.Embarrassed

You would do well to just put this "The Sky is Falling!!!" headline, alongside all of the other politically motivated crap the ABC comes up with ... opinions that are constantly disproved, or simply never eventuate, shall we ... Wink

 


So you don’t know what a “deflection” is either? We’ll add that to the list...

That's it?Embarrassed

Listen, why don't you just acknowledge that you are out of your depth on any of the serious non-virtue signalling subjects (and paddling hard with them!), and avoid further humiliation and embarrassment.Wink

I recommend that you re-read my comments ... you might retain some of the facts on the subject that way.Big smile


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 3:19am
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Dr E it wasn't false.  It was replacing a tourist from England or USA who saw fires and thought the whole of the mountains were black so went to another place.  It happens.  I've a daughter who is a tour guide.  They have had a very good winter but usually have a quiet time.  So they take their holidays etc in that period.  Likewise you would find businesses who would work around the good and bad times.  But when a fire happens tourists think a fire a lithgow for instance means their holiday in Katoomba is not worthwhile so they cancel the trip and go to Queensland or Victoria ect.  You are just helping them keep going till people come back.

furious, you make a very good point - if the fire was a "one off", then yes, the assistance and actions that you suggest is valid.Thumbs Up

However, if those fires are a regular event, like droughts, then we are not addressing the problem.

If the root of the problem is ignored, and we are just throwing money at it for a short term fix, and hoping that history doesn't repeat, then we are mad - The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

Unfortunately, fires, like droughts, are regular in Australia, and have been for hundreds of thousands of years ... due to our climate, which has been consistent over that time as well!

It seems to me that as long as I can remember, we have had just as many "Bushfire Appeals" as "Drought Appeals" and similarly, the Government declaring them as "Disasters" and providing taxpayer funds to put a band aid on the devastating outcomes, that are a result of our leaders failure to plan.   

We do have the ability to manage these things, and spending the money will save money in time ... and coincidentally, it is the ALP/Greens Collusion who stand in the way of proper forest management and hazard reduction (a natural phenomenon anyway), just as they stand in the way of dams and irrigation ... the Socialist Lefties are all about big government intervention, and they are anti people, especially people who aspire to do better for themselves.



-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 3:32am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Those in strife appear to have simply not planned for dry times, according to these farmers.
I found this extremely interesting & a refreshing change to all the doom n gloom stories.

Landline

http://abc.net.au/news/2018-08-11/defying-the-drought:-the-farmers-who-seem-to-be/10109792" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/news/2018-08-11/defying-the-drought:-the-farmers-who-seem-to-be/10109792
Clap

Why doesn't every business person just put their hand out when they fail to plan for adverse conditions that they know will historically affect their business ... you know, like when their tax bill comes in!

Surely it would be a good thing of we could just run appeals, and hold telethons for them all, shame people into giving them money, and provide them with far more regular opportunities to make themselves feel good about themselves!

It's almost as annoying as those people whose home burns down and they are crying in the street because they didn't have any insurance and good old ACA runs the story and they raise enough to build them a new house + a new car + a holiday for the whole family to Disneyland!!!

I hate those people!!! ... Why am I the idiot who paid my insurance every year, and never could afford to take my family to Disneyland ... because I spent so much money on insurances!!!Cry


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776

<h1 id="skip-to--ing" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.25em; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; font-family: ABCSans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; line-height: 1.2em; letter-spacing: -1px; : rgb249, 249, 249;">Banking royal commission: Lax lending by banks <span style="font-weight: normal;">could</span>see our debt problem come crashing down</h1> 

MORE FAKE NEWS? Thanks judge!Clap

Hahahaha! ... are you seriously relying on the ABC for economic "opinions" (that's all this is)? ... you do recall them sacking "Emma the Pretend Economics Editor" because of her lack of basic economic knowledge? ... you seem to have obtained your own knowledge from the same Corn Flakes packet as she did!LOL

BTW, if you actually bothered to read that article, can you tell me WHO said or even implied that there was an imminent debt problem? ... you should recognise the bankers statements as simple deflection 101, straight out of CNNPT's play book.Embarrassed

You would do well to just put this "The Sky is Falling!!!" headline, alongside all of the other politically motivated crap the ABC comes up with ... opinions that are constantly disproved, or simply never eventuate, shall we ... Wink

 


So you don’t know what a “deflection” is either? We’ll add that to the list...


That's it?Embarrassed

Listen, why don't you just acknowledge that you are out of your depth on any of the serious non-virtue signalling subjects (and paddling hard with them!), and avoid further humiliation and embarrassment.Wink

I recommend that you re-read my comments ... you might retain some of the facts on the subject that way.Big smile


It’s pretty straightforward, you gibbering halfwit, so allow me to summarise:

RC to banks: “Did you employ dodgy lending practices?”

Banks: “Yep”

Now I’m not sure I can make it any simpler for you than that. You could cut and paste in pink I suppose.

But I think the problem runs deeper here, CK. You seem to be having another bitcoin, volcanoes or Gary Rohan moment here. That is, in your compulsion (presumably borne out of a desperate need for attention) to comment multiple times on anything and everything, it merely serves to reinforce the obvious- that is, across pretty much any topic you care to contribute, you hammer home the simple fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Bit hard to call it fake news when the banks have admitted to it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9698776

<h1 id="skip-to--ing" style="margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.25em; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; font-family: ABCSans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; line-height: 1.2em; letter-spacing: -1px; : rgb249, 249, 249;">Banking royal commission: Lax lending by banks <span style="font-weight: normal;">could</span>see our debt problem come crashing down</h1> 

MORE FAKE NEWS? Thanks judge!Clap

Hahahaha! ... are you seriously relying on the ABC for economic "opinions" (that's all this is)? ... you do recall them sacking "Emma the Pretend Economics Editor" because of her lack of basic economic knowledge? ... you seem to have obtained your own knowledge from the same Corn Flakes packet as she did!LOL

BTW, if you actually bothered to read that article, can you tell me WHO said or even implied that there was an imminent debt problem? ... you should recognise the bankers statements as simple deflection 101, straight out of CNNPT's play book.Embarrassed

You would do well to just put this "The Sky is Falling!!!" headline, alongside all of the other politically motivated crap the ABC comes up with ... opinions that are constantly disproved, or simply never eventuate, shall we ... Wink

 


So you don’t know what a “deflection” is either? We’ll add that to the list...


That's it?Embarrassed

Listen, why don't you just acknowledge that you are out of your depth on any of the serious non-virtue signalling subjects (and paddling hard with them!), and avoid further humiliation and embarrassment.Wink

I recommend that you re-read my comments ... you might retain some of the facts on the subject that way.Big smile


It’s pretty straightforward, you gibbering halfwit, so allow me to summarise:

RC to banks: “Did you employ dodgy lending practices?”

Banks: “Yep”

Now I’m not sure I can make it any simpler for you than that. You could cut and paste in pink I suppose.

But I think the problem runs deeper here, CK. You seem to be having another bitcoin, volcanoes or Gary Rohan moment here. That is, in your compulsion (presumably borne out of a desperate need for attention) to comment multiple times on anything and everything, it merely serves to reinforce the obvious- that is, across pretty much any topic you care to contribute, you hammer home the simple fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Again, I'm just trying to help you out judge, because you don't understand.

I told you that lending practices are EXACTLY THE SAME as they have been for over 30 years ... you can describe them as "dodgy" if you wish, the RC's can do likewise, after all, it's their job ... so what? ... their practices haven't changed, and as much as the hand wringing virtue signalers at the ABC would like it, THERE IS NO DEBT CRISIS ... but it COULD happen, and if it did, it wouldn't be a result of mortgage lending practices, and it would have no effect on the property market that couldn't be explained as being a part of the normal cycle. 

No need to thank me, just stop spreading FAKE NEWS ya gullible dope!Wink


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!



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