two mares - Tassie Stallion Choice
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Topic: two mares - Tassie Stallion Choice
Posted By: slowdown
Subject: two mares - Tassie Stallion Choice
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:59am
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Hi All, I am going to have to choose to breed one of these two mares this year as I am limited by funds. I will be choosing between 4 stallions. Needs Further Alpine Eagle Wordsmith Clangalang the two mares are - Malandrina - Brilliant Leader x The Spoiler(Pride of Kellina) Sh'bourne Kahlua - Brilliant Leader x River Doll (Bao Lack) I already have taken Malandrina to a staying stallion in Savoire Vivre only get to a plugger. I now have two Wordys from her. the first trialled yesterday and ran a nice second . He was not pushed up the straight as he is only 8 weeks in work today. the rising two year old on type looks a beauty but looks is all we have at the moment. the second mare has a Tough Speed filly who turned out huge and is yet to win and she has a nice yet smallish Needs Further filly(rising two year old) at the breakers so none the wiser re this cross yet. l like the cross with Kahlua and Clangalang a lot however the downside is they take time. with the new Tasbred scheme coming into play they are only eligible until they turn 5 so this is a risk on return to allow us to continue in the game. Alpine Eagle yet proven but perhaps a mainland type stallion - unknown yet Needs Further - putting pace into his progeny with two two year olds breaking sprint track records. Wordy -Mr Consistency./ sensible progeny thanks for your thoughts. Cheers Slowdown ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Replies:
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 4:01am
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MALANDRINA 13yo Grey Mare D.O.B: 01-Aug-2004 by BRILLIANT LEADER from THE SPOILER 5x Pedigree Report Status Retired Owner’s Details at retirement (when Racing Australia is advised) Mr D T Curran, Mrs C T Curran, Mrs K L Gerakis, Ms R Di Pietrantonio, Mr A A Campbell, Mr E Knight, Mr J B Sinatra, Mrs D M Curran, Mr J M Patroni, Mr D G Mann OAM Stewards Embargoes None on record Emergency Vaccination Record (Click here for more details) Last Gear Change* 17-Oct-2010, Bit Lifter, On Trainer Racing Colours Gold, Royal Blue And Lime Crossed Sashes, Lime Armbands Career Summary: 28-5:2:4 Prizemoney: $139,625 Total Bonus: $25,900 Min/Max-Dist-Win: 1350/2200 1st Up: 6:0-2-0 2nd Up: 4:1-0-0 Firm: 0:0-0-0 Good: 19:4-1-3 Soft: 8:1-1-1 Heavy: 1:0-0-0 Synthetic: 0:0-0-0 Note: WA Gear Changes may be incomplete ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 4:01am
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SH'BOURNE KAHLUA 14yo Brown Mare D.O.B: 07-Nov-2003 by BRILLIANT LEADER from RIVER DOLL 5x Pedigree Report Status Retired Owner’s Details at retirement (when Racing Australia is advised) Ms M M Brosnan Stewards Embargoes None on record Emergency Vaccination Record (Click here for more details) Last Gear Change* 13-Apr-2010, Blinkers, On, Comment: Declared - trialled in blinkers. Trainer Racing Colours Lime, Emerald Green Four Leaf Shamrock And Armbands Career Summary: 23-3:2:1 Prizemoney: $34,380 Total Bonus: $1,400 Min/Max-Dist-Win: 1300/1700 1st Up: 8:0-1-0 2nd Up: 8:1-0-1 Firm: 0:0-0-0 Good: 13:3-2-0 Soft: 9:0-0-1 Heavy: 1:0-0-0 Synthetic: 0:0-0-0 ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:33pm
very quiet on here  ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:34pm
Am on the job. 
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:55pm
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Slowdown, both mares are hard to match from a line breeding perspective. If you can cop a 3f x 3m Danehill cross I'd be going to Needs Further, and you'll probably get a discount if you book both mares to him. Plus I reckon he's the best of the three established sires.
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 4:07pm
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thanks kindly S.C. I knew you would get on the job. thats great advice and yes i can cop that. The stable filly Pateena Arena is sex balanced to Danehill which appears to be the most successful of the duplications so far. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:17pm
| Sorry slowdown out yesterday and today - school holidays. And now working but I think Needs Further is the best for speed and family also. But I haven't checked the pedigrees out so only just thinking that way without a proper look. |
Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:29pm
| I know not quite the same as 3f x 3m Danehill but both Luger (HK Derby winner) and Prompt Response have a 3m x 3m Danehill off the top of my head |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:39pm
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thanks TJ and Furious. seems 3 x 3 Danehill is getting far enough away to cross. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:41pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
furious wrote:Posted By: Bushy
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 10:03pm
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I could not bred a double danehill even if free- those stats are just horrible and for me that's a no brainer ALpine eagle for mine was mentally unstable and also unsound so not sure how people breed to a horse like that- albeit on his day was a star id be using Mawingo-A Magic Millions staff member first told me about them as the best types they have seen by a first season sire full stop since the I am invincibles. He said physically they where STAMPED. Ive brought into 2 of them (shares) and reports are both well above average Looking at his pedigree they also seem to be going to be 1200-1600m horses as his sire Tertullian is more this way. His female line is sensational. The other aspect if not for getting a poor ride from Williams he should be a Group 1 winner at 1400m beating All too Hard - his also the only Group 1 winner down there Ive brought a mare specifically this year to send to him and I notice they have sold ok Wordy is ok but his a Tassie stallion only- hasn't really done it on the mainland and has enough to say he should have by now Looking at your mares they are good tough and sound families so id want to continue that trait and not introduce unsoundness |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 10:28pm
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thanks for that Bushy. yes he is an impressive looking stallion. I saw him at the stallion parade again the other day and he looks very strong. I just want to see what he throws first and if they go as good as he looks I will have a mare over there. I hope he goes for the McCulloch family. they have contributed so much to racing in Tasmania. Cheers Slowdown ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 1:54am
| I really like Mawingo for Sh'bourne Kahlua, best match in Tassie IMHO , one starter for a creditable 4th to The Closer yesterday, good luck. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 10:42am
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thanks Goldey, i am really looking forward to watching them perform before i can send one to him. yes i like the match too. lots of good stuff on Tesio. Sadlers and Shirley Heights in there too. has been an incredible cross in the early days up close. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:20pm
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Interesting (in Malandrina) the Pride of Kellina cross to Todman in Clangalang. You also get the 1w cross of Rousseau's Dream and Alycidon and Copenhagen and Bellotto. But as you said slow to mature. Then again that can also depend on the female line. But then again you 5h blood in Malandrina has a cross to Needs Further (Fairy King), Alpine Eagle (Sadler's Wells & Nureyev) or Wordsmith (Perugino) so she is the easiest to mate of the two mares. Her line has so many ideas on what works and the cross back does. Canny Lad and 1-n & 13a mixes work. Well you don't have all that down there but you already have a 1-n and a 13a line in your mare. And with Needs Further you have the Danehill/Bletchingly cross which gave us Canny Lad. Bushy as with the Canny Lad cross many of the Danehill crosses included a mare by him. This is not on with a stallion who has something incorrect in the legs. THey have done it so many times with the Canny Lad mares that I could scream. No closer that 3x3 and these two mares are from sound stock but if either is over at the knees then you wouldn't do it. The Needs Further, Alpine Eagle & Wordsmith/Sh'Bourne Kahlua also gives you the Bold Reason/Never Bend cross which I also like to see. So really you then have to decide which stallion has produced the best results so far at stud. You could wait to see if Alpine Eagle gets sound stock. You can also get that cross in Mawingo through his dam. Also the 1-s female line has produced the sire of Crawford who was a good stakes class horse from this family back in the 80's. So he is one to keep your eyes on for Malandrina.
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 4:05pm
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as usual thanks kindly for your input too Furious. some really good knowledge shared there. i dont know how you remember it all. great advice thankyou. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 11:23pm
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Sh'bourne Kahlua is from a wonderful female line with four straight stakes winners in her direct female line which is something that you don't often see. It is from an overseas family, and of course this always raises issues as to whether the idea is to breed to some of the influences that have worked internationally, or trying to breed to local influences. In the case of this mare, Alpine Eagle appeals as a quality mating, although by an unproven stallion. The mating sees duplications of both Shirley Heights, who we see has a duplication in turn of the stallion, Blandford, and Kris, who sees his grand damsire as Crepello, who also hails from the Blandford line. Blandford, and in particular, Crepello, have had significant impact in the pedigrees of some of the family stakes winners, and Dusty Dollar is interestingly a daughter of Kris. Based on the original criteria, this is certainly the mating that I would be pursuing. Malandrina it is fair to say, is from a far more moderate female family. The most recent stakes winners are Daasrae and Sherona, again both in the direct female line and both winners of the Toowoomba Cup. Before that we have to go back to a mare called Carbelle by Carbine, who produced four stakes winners including full siblings Ebullition (Caulfield Stakes and Newmarket) and Effervescence (Coongy). Without going into the full story behind my reasoning, I suggest that a more aggressive breeding strategy is probably required with this mare. Needs Further has the close duplication of Danehill similar to Phalaris in the pedigree of Daasrae but certainly not as strong a pedigree as that female. It is always a concern to me that a duplication like this is through a son like Brilliant Leader. I think I can safely say that stallion is not among the best sons of Danehill we have ever seen, so we are effectively breeding in part to something of a weakness in the pedigree. Nevertheless, the stallion pool in Tasmania is not very deep, so it is probably a mating that is as good as we will find there at present. A left field option not that far on the mainland is Onemorenomore, a solid enough stallion that in my view probably offers a better than average chance of producing a winner from the family.
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 7:16pm
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thanks Progold for your research and input . really appreciated. it is great to hear your thoughts on Kahlua and her family as her race record doesn't indicate how good her trainers thought she could have been and her half sister sh'bourne spirit probably shows the family can still throw good performers. Great to hear that you like the female line. We continue to have fillies along this line with two fillies from Kahlua and a Spirit's first foal being a Needs Further filly. The dam River Doll at around 24 lives a great life here with a handfeed and hay everyday, regular trims,teeth etc. very close to my favourite horse. Malandrina as you say is probably a good performer from a pretty weak family. he first won one race and I have two Wordsmith geldings with one very close to racing. time will tell with her progeny . A lot to consider. thanks for your time and input. Slowdown ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 9:33pm
| One more thought on Malandrina because she is a difficult prospect. We used to talk a lot about mating plans for mares, but now this seems to be out of the window. The mating with Clangalang is largely an outcross, but overall a lot of the influences seem fairly compatible. There is a chance of producing a reasonable racing prospect, but the real focus is to breed a filly, who then would become a much better broodmare prospect giving plenty of options when choosing a suitable mate. Just have a look at the success of Bellotto as a broodmare sire, and there will be an opportunity to breed with many of Tasmania's future stallion prospects. Malandrina's daughter by Savoire Vivre would herself be relatively restricted in choice of mates. |
Posted By: Aurelius
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 9:42pm
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Think outside the box. Bring them to the mainland. You won't beat your rivals fishing from the same pond. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 1:28pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 1:28pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 12:32am
| Toorak Toff enters the discussions, I quite like the distant matches here largely an outcross and has had limited success via Iconoclasm,. largely a flop on the mainland. |
Posted By: Take2
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2018 at 10:23pm
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nice ped 5 crosses of mumtaz mahal in 7 gens in Sh'bourne Kahlua, alpine eagle for mine, brings other topline mares into the equation, namely natalma and special, thowi in lalun, and alpine eagle from the hot sadlers wells male line
------------- change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 8:06am
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Cheers Take2. she has been covered by Alpine Eagle. just waiting to see if she has taken. her half sister sh'bourne spirit will foal an Alpine Eagle this month. from the foals by him I have seen they look nice types. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 8:07am
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 8:14am
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thanks to everyone for their input too. Alpine Eagle got the nod in the end but I still will be watching what Mawingo's do and of course Needs Further is throwing some good ones. I already have a filly by him from her so and she has been broken in. should be back in work shortly. What happens there will influence my next choice. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 10:03pm
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one jump - triplets. one squeezed and a small one right beside the squeezed one. hopefully leaving one left by the end of the week. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 5:41pm
| Not ideal. Fingers crossed for you Slowdown. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 7:18pm
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Cheers Mate, a big turn around from last year where she would not go in foal. should know more by the end of the week. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:24pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:29pm
| Great news Slowdown. Hope all goes well from now on. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:39pm
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Thanks Furious. knowing my wife she will be in the best of hands. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 11:35am
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 11:17am
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After the performance of Mystic Journey we stretched the budget. Kahlua confirmed 45 days to alpine eagle. Malandrina confirmed 45 days in foal to squamosa. Spirit served by alpine eagle 3 November Malandrina served by Needs further 10 November. Now to sit back and wait ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 11:18am
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Woops second line should read umagold to squamosa ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 1:25pm
| Nice Shaun ! |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 6:28pm
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Thanks Goldey. very exciting. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2019 at 9:47am
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2019 at 9:53am
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not sure why the quote didnt work. What i said was I was wondering if you were in either yesterdays winner at Canberra or the Mawingo racing Wednesday in Melbourne Bushy.? Cheers Slowdown ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 11:43am
Bugger. had Umagold checked yesterday as we were going well overdue and didn't appear to be in foal . She is in fantastic nick so was hoping the visual was wrong but not to be. Sun have been fantastic and the service is honoured. After studying her breeding my understanding is she is 3/4 to Songs Of Vienna( dam of City of Song(Bel Esprit)) so we are sending her back to Sun but to Bel Esprit and will send a mare next year for the Squamosa return - perhaps her daughter Sh'Bourne Star if she has finished racing. this brings in Canny Lad and Canny Lass plus many other nice mixes along with a duplication of Dancing Show . ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 12:05pm
| Sorry to hear about the mare Slowdown. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 12:06pm
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Cheers Second Chance, Such is life. Hopefully more luck next time.... ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 1:49pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Dizzy
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 2:24pm
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Woohoo slowdown - about time! Photos soon please.
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 2:43pm
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will do. Cheers Dizzy ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 10:10am
| As long as he doesn't procrastinate in a race. I have a daughter who was late. She can never make her mind up about anything! |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 10:21am
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. It's possible Furious. Sadlers Wells, Riverman and two times Shirley Heights. he could well be at the back. Lets hope he can get going late.... ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Take2
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 1:03am
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hope it all goes well from now m8 ------------- change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 7:50am
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Cheers Take2 ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |