4 Corners - Aquanita
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URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=62546
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Topic: 4 Corners - Aquanita
Posted By: monty1
Subject: 4 Corners - Aquanita
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 7:54pm
| Can’t wait till next Monday when the Aquacheaters expose is on 4 corners. I hope a couple of the other cheating trainers who luckily escaped are exposed. |
Replies:
Posted By: skippy123
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 8:11pm
I believe the focus is more on the investigators versus those being investigated 
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Posted By: focus3
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 8:30pm
| Well go orn skip elaborate. R U saying RV hasn't properly investigated? That the Aqua hierarchy hasn't faced the music? Or that the old RV sweep it under the carpet culture is alive and well? Say it isn't so. |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 10:58am
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9944156" rel="nofollow - Off TrackOn the surface, Australia's racing industry has never been better. With a prize pool that's grown to more than $600 million it's one of the biggest industries in the country, employing more than 50,000 people. But away from the glamour all is not well in the sport of kings. 30 secs video. http://abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9944156" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9944156 ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:52am
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Lol, nothing like hyperbole to drum up interest. People are leaving this sport in droves." Horse Trainer (interesting definition of drove)
Die-hard racing identities are worried. (not enough to demand change and REAL action) "We all love our horses. But we seem to get knocked from pillar to post, one scandal after another." Thoroughbred Owner On Monday Four Corners examines the secrets and scandals in Australia's horse racing industry. "A scandal like this certainly does rank right up there. This is a big one." Racing commentator (unlike the Sam Lav et al doping scandal and the even bigger scandal in the red hots) In 2017 an astonishingly audacious doping conspiracy was uncovered. Five trainers and three stable hands were found guilty of taking part in Victoria's Aquanita doping scandal, but questions remain. "How anyone could look at this situation and say, well that's it, all done, we've got the guilty people, and move on, just has you shaking your head." Racing Industry analyst In the wake of the scandal, described as one of the darkest and longest chapters in the history of the sport, high profile racing figures are questioning how the sport is being policed. "How did this happen for so long, what processes were in place that failed the racing industry, failed punters, failed the horses?" Racing form analyst The damage done by the Aquanita doping conspiracy isn't the only problem facing the industry. The loss of high profile sponsors, the difficulty in attracting racegoers and concerns about animal cruelty have the racing fraternity on edge. "Once punters lose confidence in the sport the whole system breaks down because without punters racing doesn't exist, without owners who put on the show racing doesn't exist." Racing Commentator. |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:30pm
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hard to believe, with the record prices at sales. industry participants cant be selling to themselves, alone. more likely the rspca trying to stay relevant. but they do need to keep the industry on its toes and transparent..
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:47pm
The problem with ABC is that everything they do will be tilted left ------------- to the victor |
Isaac soloman wrote:Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:02pm
| Lol. Deja vu all over again. Wrong again. I could give you numerous links but I'd be wasting both our time. |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:14pm
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The ABC is a left wing propaganda outlet. Only a left winger would dispute this. |
Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:19pm
Exactly. Aquanita is a huge issue by itself - why does wastage need to come into this? ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:29pm
I take the views of a conservative misogynist with appropriate regard. Let me guess - you know nothing about the makeup of the ABC board, and even less about the outcomes of 3 or 4 conservative induced enquiries into the supposed "bias"? But there are other TBV boards if you want to further display your ignorance.
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:39pm
| Or did I misread you? Perhaps you were referring to the obvious anti-Labor " bias" in the Gillard days. They were of course doing their jobs. Pity they chose at the same time not to apply the same intense scrutiny to the mad monk as he presented himself as an alternative "leader". |
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 1:57pm
What is wrong with you. Why can't you just argue your point without trying to disparage the person you disagree with? |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 2:41pm
| There's a lot wrong with me Rusty, likely even you.Which part didn't you like? The misogynist label presumably? His posts speak for themselves. If the cap fits, wear it. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 2:46pm
No fair minded person believes this. They report the facts and tend not to sensationalise the trivial. Somebody else has added why should wastage be included, Well why shouldn't it ? I agree with yet somebody else, Perhaps racing is so on the nose it needs more than one 50 minute expose to cover half its issues. Wastage Corruption drugs welfare Cheap labour ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Air Seattle
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 3:00pm
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Lets not forget the last time 4 corners did an expose on t/bred racing. It focused on strippers, brothels & George Freeman. It provided nothing new except rehash old stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if a similar occurred on Monday night. Afterall they've sought Racetrack Ralphy's view and we all know how well he's received here
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Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 3:00pm
Because they always have loonies on when it comes to wastage - CPR and the like come up with bogus numbers and people believe them. They don’t do anything to help solve the problem. How long is Monday’s segment? Is there time to rehash this stuff we’re subjected to every spring carnival when there are some serious integrity matters which have waited a very long time to be exposed? ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 3:06pm
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The ABC is an imperfect organisation which makes errors of judgement from time to time. It's light years ahead of any private media concern. Surveys continually to give it trust, impartiality, accuracy etc numbers which private media can only dream of. Here's just one of many: http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7641-media-net-trust-june-2018-201806260239" rel="nofollow - https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7641-media-net-trust-june-2018-201806260239 Mention of wastage in a racing expose' is no indicator of supposed ABC left wing bias.
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 3:12pm
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How many people that work for the ABC are right wing? How many of those right wingers are philosophically right wing and not just neo liberals? |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 3:16pm
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You haven't seen it linghi so why not wait until Monday and then get stuck in? Brissenden's no fool. Wastage numbers may or may not be inaccurate - the industry is a long way from knowing the reality and although steps have been taken there's still long way to go as far as tracking and post-racing animal welfare goes. In a multi-billion dollar industry some would say it's tokenism.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 10:11pm
The only thing that matters is they report the truth. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 10:50pm
Exactly. When the lady sensationally inquires; “where do the 8,500 adult horses a year go?” And she was part of the reasearch that actually detailed where they go, I just do not hold a lot of hope. The CPR types use old research and incredibly poor mathematics to come up with sensationalist clap trap. ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:26pm
It says much for racing that they can not put this to bed. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:38pm
And even if they reported the truth that's not good enough for the left so I'm going to hold them to their own standard. |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:39pm
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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 12:09am
I also recall the last time 4 Corners did an expose on racing in general. That was the greyhound live baiting scandal, which bizarrely also had some in here complaining of “lefty” bias. |
Posted By: Discohips23
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 12:37am
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 12:54am
Your blind ideology is showing. Looked up the backgrounds of the ABC Board and the outcomes of those bias enquiries yet or are you afraid of the truth like most neocons?
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:24am
Got an equitable list of right wingers working for the ABC yet? |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:26am
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philosophically |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:28am
Bizarrely? Very droll Judge. I doubt animal welfare is a left/right issue myself but the basic wisdom behind the assumption rings true, if you get my drift. Anecdotally greyhound racing "wastage" is, sadly, still a huge issue.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:53am
It is not really a left or right issue. The ABC is fundamentally unbiased and a wonderful institution that the commercial networks go to to poach the talent they can not develope themselves. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:56am
No doubt the first two sentences make sense in your odd little conspiratorial world of us and them, black and white. I have no idea of what an "equitable list" is (the implication being baseless nonsense to begin with) or how you would expect to compile such a list but here's an idea you can have for nix. I suspect that Nick Minchin and other conservatives have at some point created files with newspaper clippings etc of supposed ABC bias and lists of possible dangerous ABC lefties who need to be excised. You could always start there and use the exclusion approach - ie it would be a reasonable assumption that anyone not on his hit list must be of re "right", or at least moderately conservative-friendly. Perhaps putting all ABC staff on the rack might help? If nothing else it would punish them for their nasty leftie habits. There's plenty of available discussion on the topic if you have a real interest, some which specifically addresses the point you appear to be trying to make. Specific names of ABC staff are mentioned if that floats your boat. All it takes is some googling and a few hours of reading and the your fog will be swept away. Seems ideology and ignorance are regular bedfellows for some reason.
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:27am
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Neoconservatism came from the left, this is undisputed. There was significant extrotskyite element within the foundation of neoconservatism, this is undisputed. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:29am
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You read the wrong books. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:34am
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I like the nature docos on the ABC djebel but when it comes to politics they are partisan hacks. If all the talent was right ring you wouldn't like it. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:36am
Journalism should not be left or right, they should simply be delivering the facts and letting you and I decide what we think. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:38am
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:39am
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Posted By: skippy123
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 7:21am
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If this is true (I personally disagree) then why only rail against the ABC? Take a lot around at Racing journalism- majority have an agenda (because that’s where their wage comes from plus they are part of the ‘in’ boys club) and are totally unashamed about it... Real journalism is a dying breed, but there are still brilliant investigative journalists with integrity (not the kind RV spout!) out there
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Posted By: Overseer
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:36am
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Like Ray Thomas Skip.....hehehehehe ------------- Watch the commission go on |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:19pm
Doesn't read books is far more likely
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Posted By: SHOVHOG
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:27pm
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I love when people talk about left and right. The fact that you guys think you have a choice in 2 different parties is a laugh. It's an illusion and simply is a representation of the right brain and left brain and or the left hand path or right hand path. Brush up on your history and gnostics and you might learn something. But I digress ------------- " In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win" |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:53pm
------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:05pm
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The ABC show a lefty bias in most of their comedy programs. Shows like the Gruen Transfer don't normally show too much balance. Q&A not much better ! ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:08pm
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I also thought the much publicised 3 week expose to out Trump on 4 Corners was as weak as water. ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm
Yes. Very little difference between the extremists at either end of that nominal and quite arbitrary spectrum. Hitler or Stalin? Both abominations. Interesting interview by Fidler on the excellent ABC radio program Conversations yesterday. His guest had researched Hitler's youth. Google the podcast.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:36pm
There is not much doubt entertainers generally speaking are left wingers. If we are all honest with ourselves a bad left wingers is better than a good right winger. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:20am
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heard the grab for this show on tonight. first impression, rich, powerful people/owners pulling the strings of the stewards.
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Posted By: skippy123
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:37am
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Horseracing insiders raise questions about Aquanita investigation Four Corners / By Michael Brissenden, Wayne Harley and Lucy Carter Posted 3 hours ago, updated3 hours ago Horse trainer Robert Smerdon. IMAGE Horse trainer Robert Smerdon (pictured) and Greg and Denise Nelligan were handed life bans.(ABC News: Nicola Gage) Racing Victoria has been accused of not acting soon enough to uncover a recent doping scandal described by a judge as one of the "darkest and longest chapters in Australian turf history". Serious questions have been raised about the investigation process that eventually led to charges. Earlier this year Racing Victoria banned stablehand Greg Nelligan, his wife Denise Nelligan and senior Victorian trainer Robert Smerdon for life for administering endurance enhancing bicarb doping treatment to horses just before races. All three worked for the Aquanita Racing stables. Five others were also penalised. The racing disciplinary board described it as a "long-running systematic conspiracy to try and obtain an unfair advantage in well over a hundred races in seven years". Racing Victoria says the successful prosecution of those involved proves it is policing the sport appropriately. But trainers, commentators and punters have told the ABC's Four Corners program that Smerdon's previous transgressions with the integrity system, combined with an unusual long-running winning streak for Aquanita horses should have seen them act earlier. A transcript of the initial investigation obtained by Four Corners also shows that on the day the doping conspiracy was uncovered, racing stewards did not forensically examine Smerdon's phone records. After a cursory examination the stewards gave the trainer his phone back and allowed him to leave the racecourse with it. CHAIRMAN: Mr Smerdon, obviously we don't want you to have the inconvenience of not having your phone. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us before - MR SMERDON: No, nothing I can offer, no. The stewards' decision to hand Smerdon back his phone is one that has puzzled many, given the rich digital record revealed by Nelligan's phone. But it's a choice Racing Victoria's chief executive Giles Thompson told Four Corners he's comfortable with. "As I say, we have the luxury of hindsight, he didn't have the luxury of hindsight," he said. "I'm very comfortable that our stewards and our investigators are highly skilled and highly experienced. They deal with the facts and the circumstances that they face before them at the time." How a doping conspiracy was uncovered Smerdon's winning streak finally came to an end on October 7 last year. A big crowd had turned out at Flemington to watch the legendary Winx line up to win her 21st race. But what happened to another horse in a swab box that day would shake racing to its core. Aquanita stablehand Nelligan was caught attempting to administer an endurance-boosting bicarb paste to the Smerdon-trained mare Lovani. Race day treatments are strictly prohibited. Nelligan initially said he was acting alone but his phone held a record of 70,000 texts. The messages revealed the systematic doping of horses over at least seven years by a group linked to the Aquanita Racing stable. The texts between Nelligan and Smerdon spoke of instructions for giving horses bicarb "top ups" and convinced the judge that both Smerdon and Nelligen were the driving force behind the conspiracy. The scandal shocked many in the industry including Bryan Martin, who for more than 40 years was one of the nation's most respected race callers and the voice of racing in Victoria. "I just shook my head. I thought, I can't believe this has happened. And under the nose of the stewards too. Why wasn't something detected?" he said. "You know, the signs were there within the industry, the signs were there. The alarm bells were going off. And the fact that over 100 races have been affected — that's come out in the evidence, that blows me away. I can't believe that. " Cobalt investigation shows different treatment The Aquanita scandal comes shortly after a three-year fight by another group of Victorian trainers to clear their names over charges of knowingly administering their horses with cobalt, a suspected blood-boosting agent. Danny O'Brien has told Four Corners he believes the treatment he received from the stewards was tougher and far more thorough than the polite approach taken with Smerdon. When the stewards raided O'Brien's stables in 2015, he says they locked him down for two days and went through every piece of digital technology they could find. "They came in with an IT forensic team, they imaged my phone, they imaged my tablet, they imaged every computer in the office including our server so they had every email, every text that… for many, many years previous that had been transmitted by me or by anyone in my office," he said. O'Brien was initially given a four-year ban from racing. He appealed and after a lengthy, multi-million dollar legal battle he was cleared of the charge of knowingly administering cobalt. Racing Victoria dismissed O'Brien's complaints about how he was treated. Mr Thompson told Four Corners the Cobalt and Aquanita cases were different. "The investigations were completely different, the cases are completely different, and to line the two up and compare one to the other, isn't an appropriate way of considering it." he said. However, both centred around the alleged administration of banned substances to racehorses. The fact that in the Aquanita case it took seven years for the fraud to be uncovered only serves to highlight failures in the integrity system. Ralph Horowitz, a respected racing form analyst known as Racetrack Ralphy, said the signs were there. "The facts are Robert Smerdon's team were winning races through the roof ahead of market expectations," he said. "Robert Smerdon had transgressions that are on the record in 2012, in 2013 and in other times and, relatively, [he was] hit with light fines. In hindsight, they look very, very light. "So let's find out why these things happened for so long, let's find out why ultimately punters and participants were dudded." Claims warnings were ignored In 2011 one of trainer Mat Ellerton's horses was beaten by a long-odds, Smerdon-trained horse. That same year he had reported what he thought was a suspicious loading and unloading of Smerdon-trained horses at the racetrack. He says his warnings to Racing Victoria were ignored. "What they did, I don't know. But obviously now we do know they were treating horses on course. It's pretty hard to stomach really when that's your opposition," he says. Racing Victoria said it was not in a position to act on hearsay or assumptions. Recent scandals like Aquanita and the Cobalt affair have tested Australians' faith in the integrity and honesty of racing. Big sponsors like Emirates and Longines have pulled out, at many racecourses crowds are down, and even those heavily invested in the sport like Mr Martin worry that the image of racing has been badly damaged. "It's a great industry. It's a fantastic sport. It's made up of fabulous people that, you know, who else would get up at four o'clock in the morning and be out training a horse that can run up at picnics?" he said. "They love their horses. We all love our horses. But we seem to get knocked from pillar to post, one scandal after another." |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:42am
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Murdoch's reptiles will investigate stuff like this and bring you all the facts that matter after the ABC is privatised. |
Posted By: skippy123
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:49am
You’re funny 
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Posted By: Sir Gov
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:27am
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..........lol Ralph Horowitz, a respected racing form analyst known as Racetrack Ralphy
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:36pm
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:38pm
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 8:15pm
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I see myself as straight down the line however should a gun be pointed at my head and I was forced to take a political bent I'd prefer those slightly left than right, i believe their hearts to be in the right place. Anybody who thinks the ABC is biased to the left when it comes to NEWS is absolutely kidding themselves. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 8:53pm
Anyway, can't get too excited if Ralphy is the best they can come up with.
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:55pm
What about all the programs that masquerade as news?
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:22pm
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Not long to lift off ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: adolphus twirk
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:03pm
| Giles Thomson CEO Racing Vic. Credibility? Zero. Sounds like a politician who will say what he wants people to hear. |
Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:18pm
| Surprised to c O'Brien appear |
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:24pm
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No Walkley Awards for that lot. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:26pm
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this will put the cat among the pigeons, but, basically its what I have said for ages. racing needs to get its head out of the sand and take note, and act to improve the whole image. maybe these studs who breed hundreds should chuck in a few pennies to care for the useless ones they have bred ??? dunno what the answer is , but if things dont change for the better, its a down hill slope in this age of PC. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:27pm
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45min of my life I’ll never get back. Asked a couple of ok questions - got ridiculous answers. I hope Giles has some other work lined up. ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:29pm
Make all equestrian sports thoroughbred only. ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: Overseer
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:29pm
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The RSPCA is a joke. The Chief Scientist of the RSPCA conveniently or negligently omitted to cite a reviewed and published article by Dr Meredith Flash that exhaustively followed and traced "wastage"in thoroughbreds. Dr Flash's results didn't suit the RSPCAs agenda. Why wouldn't the RSPCA act on those multiple complaints against Bruce Akers at Sunbury? ------------- Watch the commission go on |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:33pm
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As it should be AA. The industry is archaic - bloody dinosaur. For what - to encourage gambling - not a good enough reason for systemic animal cruelty imo. Then to boot they have out of control corruption at the highest levels to even making the gambling bit a joke. At least pokies / casinos are not corrupt & don't lead to animal cruelty horror shows. Gamblers still get their fix , governments still get their cut . Time to wind it back - won't be missed in 10 years - part of history ! ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Bonjour
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:34pm
| I turned it off when DOB came on, .......please, don't insult what intelligence I have left, Next thing, Peter Foster will be appointed integrity commissioner. |
Posted By: Discohips23
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:44pm
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Posted By: Bluey
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:48pm
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Racing Victoria's chief executive Giles Thompson was far from convincing. Not very impressive , in my opinion. I hope he proves me wrong and can shake the whole industry up ...Stewards, trainers , horse welfare ,penalties, etc. What I did find interesting was how the small trainers are falling away, due to no track riders. The car leading horses can be dangerous so why doesn't the racing authorities in each state either install walkers at tracks to help these smaller country trainers or a cheaper way would be to have joggers ,like the trotting trainers have . ..Authorities have to think also about the small country towns and what race day does for economy and social aspect for the towns. |
Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:50pm
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Just encourage gambling on non-animal events. Racing Industry will never resolve the wastage concerns - nor the greyhound game. Sports Betting taking over with the young ones anyway - most couldnt give two hoots about betting on horses / greyhounds. Pokies / casinos / on-line poker / 24-7 sports - plenty to bet on. Never forget the racing game is put on for one thing - punting. Everything else in the game is secondary to that. So wind back the demand & the industry will gradually die. ------------- Refer ALP Election Promises |
Posted By: Vivarchi
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:51pm
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Horrible blow to Michael Brissendon's own credibility to have Danny O'Brien as a sympathetic figure. As Tontonon said, definately no Walkleys in that report. On the Integrity parts: V'landy's at his arrogant best. Thompson came off terrible as usual and just an exec on a paypacket before his next paypacket elsewhere. Martin and Horowitz on usual vanity trips. Ellerton the only one who genuinely put his head up and did the show for the bettterment of the industry imo. Overall, a waste of 45 minutes.
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Posted By: anabel
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:52pm
Hahaha so true. |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:01am
I'd like to read that article if you have a link. It has been discussed on TBV previously and from memory it lacked detail and didn't address the realities of wastage (eg what happened to the 35% of horses which didn't get to the track) at all.
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Posted By: monty1
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:03am
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Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:05am
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Here is my review. 1. Not sure what Brian Martin brought to the story, except to show that owners are more worried about trophies than the actual horse. 2. That CEO for Racing Victoria, is either one of the most naïve, stupid and inept or one of the most corrupt people I have ever seen in a senior management position. To say he can not comment on a complaint made to the stewards by Ellerton, about race day activities at Aquanita because there was no evidence, is just completely moronic. 3. O'Brien had one legite point, that he did seem to get treated differently to Smerdon, and again the CEO is totally useless in his explanation. 4. The country trainers complaining about the horse alongside the car to train, are kidding themselves. If you can not afford a trackwork rider to ride your horse of a morning, then you need to find other work, as V'Landys said this is not an entitlement, you do actually have to make your business viable, and part of the operating costs for a horse training business is track work riders. 5. For the CEO to say that returning Smerdon's phone to him at Flemington on the day the foreman and Smerdon were being questioned, is one of the most corrupt statements from a senior official I have ever heard. As has been stated, centrelink here we come. 6. If both racing officials and RSPCA, were able to hand out stiffer penalties then maybe we could see a change in behaviour. 7. I agree that there are too many horses bred in Australia every year, but the breeding industry has some well connected participants, so nothing will change there. Over all one of the worst Four Corners I have seen. If you are going to go hard about something, then go hard or go home. The story was as far as I could tell, piss weak! ------------- Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise |
Posted By: Discohips23
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:18am
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:02am
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Just watched it. A fizzer as far as the doping of horses goes. The program tried to cover too much and as a result the biggest scandal in modern racing was lost. No questions about cheating other trainers and owners and defrauding punters, why the race fixing legislation isn't being used, and why racing tolerates repeat offenders. Haven't watched 4Corners for years so don't know if it's gone soft but why Brissenden didn't press Thompson for a reason for stewards giving Smerdon his phone back only he knows. Allowing him to faff about hindsight and support for stewards was pathetic rubbish. Thompson and Bailey need to be grilled by the Racing Minister and the facts of that decision properly determined. Without proper explanation it appears to be a case of incompetence at best. The wastage issue was well done given the limited time available imo. |
Posted By: goyougoodthing
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:08am
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Why is it seemingly so outrageous for horses to be killed humanely and used for petfood or even human consumption)? sheep, cattle, kangaroos = largely acceptable horses = scandalous Given that the animals are killed humanely and the meat satisfies demand that would be supplied by other species - what’s the difference? Does the attempt to race a horse render it unthinkable to slaughter for meat? In terms of numbers, the yarding at an average sheep sale obviously far exceeds the total annual thoroughbred “wastage”. So, if people have a problem with killing animals for meat there are far bigger targets than thoroughbred “wastage”. Discuss. |
Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:19am
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I thought that, good thing when the lady was talking about the issue, and I think to isolate racing, as the only guilty party here was a bit rich. What about the people who abandon cats and dogs on the side of the highway, and then they roam the country wild, and kill the native animal population. What, do the RSPCA want to ban people from breeding dogs and cats? Our society is one of wastage, when it comes to animals, it is appalling and should not happen, but racing is not alone here, and as I said before, if you are going to go after one, you go after them all, so make no mistake, the politically correct, self-regarding types, who think that all animals should roam free, will not stop at thoroughbreds, or greyhounds or standarbreds. This part of the story is why the ABC is being touted as bias. They are coming for your guinea pigs, rabbits, goldfish and other pets. ------------- Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:20am
Barriers opened but most of the field either failed to jump or just went around for a leisurely canter unfortunately. Jockey Brissenden failed to apply the whip when required. He might be better for the run but imo a new rider with more experience and interest is required if/when there's another expose'. if the program was a racehorse I wouldn't want to be on it at its next run. It's either out of form or no longer up to the class required.
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:24am
Been discussed ad nauseam. There's a huge difference between animals farmed for food and animals raised and used for human pleasure then discarded without care. V'landys hit the nail on the head in regard to heads in the sand attitudes.
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:29am
Bias because a program about racing issues didn't get into the complexities and apparent hypocrisies of animal ethics in general? You're kidding. They'd need a mini-series and a team of 100 to cover all the problems and issues. If they were "going after" racing I'd say they did a very poor job of it.
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Posted By: goyougoodthing
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:30am
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What exactly is that difference? It is just a mindset and nothing to do with animal welfare. Would it make a difference if we bred these horses specifically for meat but also gave them an opportunity to first become racehorses if they could run fast? |
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:33am
FYI, the lady was Dr Bidda Jones, Chief Science and Strategy Officer at RSPCA Australia. |
Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:43am
Animal activist leaders like targets with money and thoroughbred racing is the holy grail for them. They fudge the numbers, sensationalise the smallest things, and use disinformation, while bleeding heart morons buy it. To add to this issue, racing is run by some of the thickest specimens to walk upright, so instead of educating and being open about positives about horse welfare, 50,000 employment, money pumped back into the economy, they just twiddle their thumbs and offer “no comment” and catch-phrases with no meaning. Where is the outcry about show animals where litters are knocked on the head if they don’t have some ridiculous but desirable physical trait? General treatment of farm animals? Crushing of male chicks? Caging bears and harvesting their bile? Brumbied are being culled? Racing pales in comparison and whereas it needs to do better, it’s not a patch on the other issues. ------------- to the victor |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:47am
'What' is a mindset? The difference is obvious but ignoring the obvious racing is a wealthy sport, it can and should look after the animals it uses to make its money. There is no excuse for not doing so.
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Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:50am
If you wanted to be machiavellian you can bring up hala and khoser butchering and watch them squirm.
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Posted By: monty1
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:04am
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Not sure why we had to go down memory lane with Brian Martin and his part ownership of FOO and then to see the replay and him call the race? Nice trophy Brian. We also know now that Ralph does not match his cravat to his tie. The only one who didn’t sound like a goose was Mathew Ellerton. Fancy getting Danny O’Brien on to talk about injustices! Mate, you got off on a technicality. |
Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:09am
| Nothing coherent or clever about ignoring problems in your own backyard simply because similar or worse problems exist elsewhere. Most adults have no problem differentiating between acts of slaughtering a chook for food and discarding a pet/working dog because you no longer want it for example. |
Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:17am
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I'm not interested in the revolutionary struggle of those who seek to make an issue of this but fail to live up to their own standards. Self reflection is important but one should not let a dishonest political agitators dictate policy. The correct response is contempt and mockery. V'landys totally fails here, he has a big mouth and a weak constitution. Never make a effort to appease political agitators because they'll see it as a win and push for more.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 3:44am
He was terrible wasn't he. Clearly Singapore have zero credibility ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 3:53am
I thought the scientist from the RSPCA was very fair minded. If I am not mistaken she basically said she'd rather see horses humanly destroyed than waste away starving. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: rusty nails
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 4:21am
Tongue ties are not nearly the method of torture she described. suggesting that the industry should be welfare checking horses for the duration of their life is simplistic nonsense. If I sell a thoroughbred to someone outside the industry,and advise the state administration of the details of the purchaser,they have no authority over the purchaser. They can neither demand to inspect the horse,or insist they be notified if its on sold. And to suggest there are substantial numbers of horses being transported out of NSW to Qld or SA for meat is also simplistic hand wringing, and contrary to her opinion that sometimes it's the preferred outcome. She obviously has never paid to transport a horse interstate. |
Posted By: theshu25
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:01am
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Totally underwhelming. Wasted 45 minutes of my life on this crap.Thompson looked like a deer caught in headlights,didnt want to know or too arrogant to say what he really thought. ------------- theshu |
Posted By: Bonjour
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:20am
The most dangerous man is the one who believes his own bull sh-t........, also who's policing the police? For God's sake Giles, any cred you had is now gone.
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Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:40am
Nothing to discuss. You’re 100% spot on. |
Posted By: Stainvita
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:53am
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Conveniently there was no mention of the 1% levy allocated from prizemoney to assist in rehoming retired racehorses was there,of course not, it did not fit their agenda did it. Why didnt Vlandys mention it? ------------- If your hands aren't shaking you haven't put enough on. |
Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 10:21am
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The reason I could never own a racehorses is because they almost certainly be slow, then I'd be stuck with the worry of what to do with them. I would never get a good nights sleep knowing they were getting flogged in the bush or worse then off to the knackers. I'd rather slaughter them and eat them myself. |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 10:24am
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Program tried to cover too much territory for mine- bush trainers, wastage, integrity- all a bit much for 45 minutes. Personally I’d like to have seen them drill down on the Aquanita thing a bit more, bit I suppose they’re screening to a wide audience not just the horse racing like in here. Thompson was of course dreadful, but that is straight out of RVs playbook these days- don’t explain, don’t defend, hide behind platitudes- we saw the same when the cobalt investigation was spiraling downward. Secure in the knowledge that there are no racing “journalists” of more to take up the baton and the product is worth too much money for anyone higher up to interfere. Where’s the minister? Integrity’s handling of Smerdon needs serious answers. |