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Stallion suggestions - Duty With Honour

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Forum Name: Breeding Forum
Forum Description: General discussion about thoroughbred horse breeding, pedigrees and bloodlines
URL: http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=62416
Printed Date: 19 Jun 2018 at 3:27am
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Topic: Stallion suggestions - Duty With Honour
Posted By: Second Chance
Subject: Stallion suggestions - Duty With Honour
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:03pm
Been mentioned on here before, probably too often.  Embarrassed  

Has had three to race for three winners, has an unraced 2yo brother to stakes-winner Justify That with Ciaron Maher and a yearling colt by Cluster bred 3 x 3 Danehill and 4 x 4 x 4 to Bletchingly with Danny Williams.

It's almost certainly her last season at stud this year, so it's probably your last chance to suggest her final mating.  Maximum stud fee around a negotiated 14k but hopefully rather less.

Suggestions invited!





Replies:
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:13pm
Bloody big owner for Yulong January.




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:16pm
Unnamed  
Moshe (AUS)
Bay or brown 2007
Bel Esprit
Bay 1999
Royal Academy
Bay 1987
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Crimson Saint
Chestnut 1969
Crimson Satan
Bolero Rose
1959
1958
26>
8-c
Bespoken
Brown 1990
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Vin d'Amour
Bay 1981
Adios
Gliteren
1970
1969
6-f
34>
Helsinge
Bay 2001
Desert Sun
Bay 1988
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Solar
Chestnut 1973
Hotfoot
L'Anguissola
1966
1967
1-w
10-b
Scandinavia
Chestnut 1994
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
Song of Norway
Grey 1982
Vain
Love Song
1966
1976
A10
1-p
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Vain4f,5f x 5f Danzig5m x 4m 
  Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:29pm
Second Chance, Would Moshe be any chance of serving your wonderful servant ? I do like that pedigree. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:42pm
Gee Djebel I'd try to get a deal with Magnus before Moshe.  But yes I'd be looking for more Vain to cross to Vana.  Some interesting Redoute's line ones with Swear, Va Pensiero, Counterattack and Stratum Star but yes most aren't in Vic and she old enough not to want to travel.  Pity the closest cross would be Denman.  Whatever you decide hope your lucky enough that she carries the foal and it's a filly.  Fingers crossed for you.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:43pm
A possibility Djebel, and thanks for your suggestion.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Gee Djebel I'd try to get a deal with Magnus before Moshe.  But yes I'd be looking for more Vain to cross to Vana.  Some interesting Redoute's line ones with Swear, Va Pensiero, Counterattack and Stratum Star but yes most aren't in Vic and she old enough not to want to travel.  Pity the closest cross would be Denman.  Whatever you decide hope your lucky enough that she carries the foal and it's a filly.  Fingers crossed for you.

He was on the tip of my tongue but just could not remember who I was trying to think of Big smile Beer Handshake

He is $22,000 so might be out of the ball park.

Unnamed  
Magnus (AUS)
Bay 2002
Flying Spur
Bay 1992
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Rolls
Chestnut 1984
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Grand Luxe
Chestnut 1974
Sir Ivor
Fanfreluche
1965
1967
8-g
4-g
Scandinavia
Chestnut 1994
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Chestnut 1970
Silly Season
Great Occasion
1962
1965
1-g
7-f
Easy Date
Bay 1977
Grand Chaudiere
Scampering
1968
1970
19-b
20-a
Song of Norway
Grey 1982
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Love Song
Grey 1976
Warpath
Folk Song
1969
1968
21-a
1-p
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Danehill3m x 3m Vain4f x 5f Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 6:09pm
Have been offered $13,750 about Magnus (advertised fee $19,800) on a live foal basis, so he's well and truly in the mix.

But keep those suggestions coming!


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:33pm
Instead of Moshe, Bel Esprit is back in Victoria well within the price range I would suggest.

The horse has well and truly bolted, but Written Tycoon seems an ideal match.  On that basis though, Rich Enuff could be considered.  The pedigree is interesting, but I wonder if the stallion really has the pedigree to make it.

Although there is a bit of travelling involved, one old stallion that would be worth considering is Testa Rossa.  His son Unencumbered is another along the same line, but the jury is out on his future.

The least expensive option to be considered is Onemorenomore.  It looks a pretty solid if unremarkable pedigree but I suspect the likely progeny would be a reasonable racing prospect.

The standout for me, if you like a risk, is no doubt Impending who will be standing in Victoria next season.  It looks a lovely pedigree with a lot of positives.  Although he is over the budget, a mare that has produced a stakes winner to a first season sire in such a competitive market must be a good point of leverage.  That could all change if he wins the Stradbroke tomorrow for the second time, but probably less important standing in Victoria rather than Qld.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:59pm
I assumed Bel Esprit would be too expensive. 

-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:01pm
Unnamed  
Impending (AUS)
Bay 2013
Lonhro
Brown 1998
Octagonal
Brown 1992
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle
1971
1982
6-e
16-c
Eight Carat
Brown 1975
Pieces of Eight
Klairessa
1963
1969
3-o
9-c
Shadea
Bay 1988
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Concia
Bay 1978
First Consul
My Tricia
1970
1974
5-f
8>
Mnemosyne
Bay 2002
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
My Juliet
Bay 1995
Canny Lad
Brown 1987
Bletchingly
Jesmond Lass
1970
1975
7-a
14>
Perfect Draw
Chestnut 1988
Whiskey Road
Proud Draw
1972
1980
4-d
13-a
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Bletchingly5m x 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:01pm
Unnamed  
Rich Enuff (AUS)
Chestnut 2011
Written Tycoon
Chestnut 2002
Iglesia
Brown 1995
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Mill Princess
1975
1977
8-f
8-c
Yodells
Chestnut 1988
Marscay
Yodelling Lady
1979
1979
4-m
1-c
Party Miss
Brown 1991
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
Miss Entertainer
Chestnut 1975
Vain
Viveza
1966
1967
A10
18>
Hotnuff
Bay 2001
Spartacus
Chestnut 1993
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
Pazzihi
Bay 1979
Manihi
Pastel
1964
1970
1-n
22-a
Scalding Hot
Brown 1993
Bureaucracy
Brown 1987
Lord Ballina
Tulla Doll
1979
1974
2-c
1-o
Scalding
Bay 1978
Ballyhot
Tullette
1968
1966
13-e
13-b
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Vain5f x 5f Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:03pm
Unnamed  
Testa Rossa (AUS)
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Bay 1968
Hail to Reason
Lalun
1958
1952
4-n
19-b
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Sikri
Bay 1967
Golden Plume
Miss Sikri
1960
1963
19-b
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Bay 1967
Baldric
Never Too Late
1961
1957
13-c
4-c
Salon
Brown 1964
Fortino
Soiree
1959
1953
4-r
1-w
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig3m x 4m Vain4m x 5f Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:03pm
Unnamed  
Onemorenomore (AUS)
Bay 2006
Red Ransom
Bay 1987
Roberto
Bay 1969
Hail to Reason
Brown 1958
Turn-To
Nothirdchance
1951
1948
1-w
4-n
Bramalea
Bay or brown 1959
Nashua
Rarelea
1952
1949
3-m
12-c
Arabia
Bay 1977
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Christmas Wind
Bay 1967
Nearctic
Bally Free
1954
1960
14-c
6-b
Palia
Bay 1994
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Kew Gardens
Bay 1981
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
Garden Green
Bay 1964
Pinturischio
Focal
1958
1959
4-r
21-a
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:06pm

Unnamed
  
Unencumbered (AUS)
Bay or brown 2011
Testa Rossa
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Sikri
1966
1967
A10
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Salon
1967
1964
4-c
1-w
Blizzardly
Bay 2002
More Than Ready
Bay or brown 1997
Southern Halo
Bay 1983
Halo
Northern Sea
1969
1974
2-d
16-g
Woodman's Girl
Bay 1990
Woodman
Becky Be Good
1983
1981
1-s
1-s
Concise
Chestnut 1992
Marscay
Chestnut 1979
Biscay
Heart of Market
1965
1967
2-o
4-m
Sober Dancer
Bay 1985
Noalcoholic
Crystal Dancer
1977
1978
16-g
1-s
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig4m x 4m Vain5m x 5f Biscay5m x 5m,5m 
  Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:09pm
Unnamed  
Written Tycoon (AUS)
Chestnut 2002
Iglesia
Brown 1995
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Yodells
Chestnut 1988
Marscay
Chestnut 1979
Biscay
Heart of Market
1965
1967
2-o
4-m
Yodelling Lady
Chestnut 1979
Paris Review
Alpine Pass
1972
1970
1-l
1-c
Party Miss
Brown 1991
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Grey 1970
Zeddaan
Khairunissa
1965
1960
11-g
9-c
Belle of Ireland
Chestnut 1964
Milesian
Belle of the Ball
1953
1958
22-a
1-m
Miss Entertainer
Chestnut 1975
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Viveza
Brown 1967
Better Boy
Emerald Fire
1951
1961
2-n
18>
Duty With Honour (AUS)
Bay 1999
West Point
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Quarantieme
Chestnut 1985
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Dancelot
Chestnut 1972
Vain
Hot Rhythm
1966
1967
A10
22-c
Abbondanza
Bay 1990
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Bay 1951
My Babu
Better So
1945
1944
1-w
2-n
Royal Suite
Brown 1960
Rego
Baraganda
1949
1948
5-d
20>
Bounteous
Bay 1982
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Vana
Bay 1963
Orgoglio
Rarcamba
1949
1946
23-a
A10
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Biscay5m x 5m,5m Vain4f x 5f 
  Better Boy5f x 4m Bletchinglyx 4f,4f


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:17pm
Unencumbered is unfortunately a dead-cert.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:26pm
Bel Esprit stood for $11000 at his last season in Qld, so I gather will be around the same price returning to Victoria.  The family of Impending shows his 4th dam as Proud Draw, a daughter of Vain which isn't shown in the pedigree above.  Proud Draw was related to Drawn who was a favourite in the mid 80's, winning three G1's in the Caulfield and Rosehill Guineas, and the All Aged Stakes.  At stud, he was a bit of a flop, siring only 1 SW in Smart Alex who won the Qld Cup in 1996 but was a good local galloper at the time.  Tend to remember Drawn best as the sire of All Drawn who was a half sister to All Our Mob, and All Stormy who is coincidentally the grand-dam of The Monstar who lines up in tomorrow's Stradbroke against Impending.


Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:26pm
from memory Bel Esprit 11 grand this year before negotiations.

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Sh'Bourne Star - racingSh'Bourne Dynasty - 2 weeks into next prep .sh'Bourne riverman- 2 months off with hoof bruising sh'bourne rebel - shinny. sh'bourne Attila - spelling after breaking.


Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:27pm
posted 16 seconds apart Djebel.

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Sh'Bourne Star - racingSh'Bourne Dynasty - 2 weeks into next prep .sh'Bourne riverman- 2 months off with hoof bruising sh'bourne rebel - shinny. sh'bourne Attila - spelling after breaking.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:27pm
I thought something had happened to Unencumbered but he isn't listed as being deceased on the Stud Book.  Probably should cross him off the list then.



Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:49pm
El cheapos Von Costa De Hero is very nice & this guy Redente would be sensational to some & far too close for others LOL Neither giving the option to sell tho'.

Click to enlarge
https://postimg.cc/image/q0yvhd46f/" rel="nofollow">


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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:03pm
https://postimg.cc/image/b016dy5qf/" rel="nofollow">

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:15pm
Checking out Redente, his fee surprisingly has almost doubled in the last couple of seasons from $2200 to $3850.  Rather oddly, none of his progeny have ever raced in a black type race from what I can find.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 5:18pm
Magnus: no longer an option following advice about his condition from a good judge.
Bel Esprit: stands with the above and they'd most likely send me away after booking and then passing up on Magnus. 
I Am Invincible: lovely match but needed to go there about four years ago.
Impending: nice enough but booked out and I'd probably be over-breeding the mare anyway.
Redente great but commercial suicide.

So might just go back to King Of Prussia.




Posted By: Cityboy
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 6:57pm
Manhattan Rain? There might be a few nice ingredients in that match


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 8:28pm
Probably a bit expensive, but Highland Reel offers a different mating but one with plenty of positives.  The added advantage is that he is likely to be the best racehorse standing in Victoria and perhaps Australia.


Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

Probably a bit expensive, but Highland Reel offers a different mating but one with plenty of positives.  The added advantage is that he is likely to be the best racehorse standing in Victoria and perhaps Australia.

Elvis and Haradasun’s moderate success don’t deter you? What sort of mares do you think are his best bet?

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to the victor


Posted By: Bluey
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 9:53pm
What about Squomosa  ? I know same stud as Magnus  but is a sire just starting to show great promise .


Posted By: tanbon
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 12:35am
Winning Rupert has Vain and Kenmare through Written Tycoon, he knew how to find the line?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:26pm
Terrific stuff guys and gals.  Will have a good look at the most recent suggestions.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:33pm
And whoops, thanks to the member who gave Magnus the thumbs down on condition and attitude.

Don't know who he or she is, however the third party who on-forwarded the advice suggested it came from a most reliable source.

They hope it helps in decision making & very much appreciate the acknowledgement Smile


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 7:05pm
How about Highland Reel? The Galileo x Danehill works extremely well, and with century and Bletchingly in her lines, would keep some sprint in with the chance to get over distance.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 7:13pm
Progold might agree with you mate.  Smile


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 10:24pm
Another look at the mare and possible matings and a couple of other options especially at the lower range of the market.

Fighting Sun has been doing a good job and is a solid looking mating.  On a similar line, Sports Edition is also by Northern Meteor out of a Biscay or Bletchingly line mare.

Master Of Design and Delightful Choice are two sons of Redoute's Choice who aren't doing that bad a job at a budget fee.

One new interesting prospect is a second season stallion called Swear by Redoute's Choice out of a Show A Heart mare with a second dam by Centaine.  It is certainly an interesting mating, and there would appear a lot of positives.  A little bit inbred for me, but there are enough positives in my view that it can be considered with a deal of confidence.  He certainly had plenty of talent on the track, and not convinced he was a Derby type.  I think worth a punt at the price in a mating that should probably appeal to a few on pedigree.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 8:40am
Swear has been well and truly on the radar.

The match is quite similar to King of Prussia over the mare, but substituting Danehill 3 x 3 for for Danzig 3 x 4.  As you infer that all-male Danehill cross at 3 x 3 might be a bit close and overall isn't a particularly successful cross.  Master of Design would provide has that same cross also.

Decisions, decisions.


Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 10:10am
Super One is apparently throwing nice foals and the pedigree would give you the I am invincible type reinforcements in a different order plus on paper he looks like he might like a Danehill influence as well . 


Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 10:37am
Hey SC,

One not mentioned is Artie Schiller. Being back in Vic and should get in around the 10k I'd assume.

You would have a yearling ( hopefully) on the back of arguably his best bred crop of 2yos up and running, and a decent number too.
His best IMHO is Flying Artie who was out of a Rubiton mare with Star Kingdom back in the 5th remove, along with another dose of the marvel Better boy.

I see DWH has Century and a double dose of Star Kingdom through Biscay.
Just a very quick thought.

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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 10:48am
Duplication of Danehill 3x3 by and large has not been overly successful, but then again 3x3 of any stallion has a low success rate.  Most success would seem to be from sex balanced duplications, and again that is reflected in overall duplications.  While my database is limited, what I have found of the successful Danehill all male 3x3 duplications that have been successful, it is the Biscay type cross also present.  Biscay is obviously from the Hyperion/Star Kingdom sire line, and Hyperion is found as the damsire of Nearctic, the dam of Northern Dancer.  He is also found as the sire of Alibhai, the damsire of His Majesty in the pedigree of Danehill.

We often underplay the importance of Hyperion in the pedigree of Northern Dancer, and also Danehill, so it may be that factor is a positive in the instance of a Swear mating.  Just further on some of my Hyperion theories, he was only a relatively small horse, like Northern Dancer incidentally.  Northern Dancer, like Danehill, often threw two different types.  Both could throw a big robust (almost carthorse) type, and regularly a smaller, more compact type but not an overly fine boned typed in most cases.  Often their progeny would be at both ends of the distance aptitude as well, from sprinters to middle distance/stayers.  It is that duality in type that often can be a key to duplication of a stallion in my view.  In my experience, it is often the duplications through sons that are at either end of the spectrum that often have greater success in the case of Northern Dancer.  Danzig/Nijinksy is the classic case of more of the sprinting type in Danzig vs the staying type in Nijinsky.  As an aside, dosage is a useful tool in this type of assessment.  On the negative of this mating in particular, it would seem that Redoute's Choice and West Point were relatively similar in aptitude, so this little aside probably hasn't cleared up much.


Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 11:01am
Originally posted by lulu lulu wrote:

Hey SC,

One not mentioned is Artie Schiller. Being back in Vic and should get in around the 10k I'd assume.

You would have a yearling ( hopefully) on the back of arguably his best bred crop of 2yos up and running, and a decent number too.
His best IMHO is Flying Artie who was out of a Rubiton mare with Star Kingdom back in the 5th remove, along with another dose of the marvel Better boy.

I see DWH has Century and a double dose of Star Kingdom through Biscay.
Just a very quick thought.


On further perusal I see that Flying Artie had a double dose of Star Kingdom as well. 5 x 6.
Cheers

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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

Duplication of Danehill 3x3 by and large has not been overly successful, but then again 3x3 of any stallion has a low success rate.  Most success would seem to be from sex balanced duplications, and again that is reflected in overall duplications.  While my database is limited, what I have found of the successful Danehill all male 3x3 duplications that have been successful, it is the Biscay type cross also present.  Biscay is obviously from the Hyperion/Star Kingdom sire line, and Hyperion is found as the damsire of Nearctic, the dam of Northern Dancer.  He is also found as the sire of Alibhai, the damsire of His Majesty in the pedigree of Danehill.

 
If you look at Frankel, who Galileo x Danehill - same as Highland Reel, and then look at Frankels progeny, he has quite a few winners 3 x 3 of Danehill, hence why I suggested Highland Reel.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 7:53pm
I honestly do not think that Frankel is an accurate comparison to any other stallion.  His book of mares was simply remarkable.  Nevertheless, of his stakes horses to date, Danehill Dancer is the only Danehill stallion that I can find at first glance so it is perhaps not a great advertisement for a Danehill duplication.


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 1:32am
Apologies, it is Danzig that Coolmore suggest, more so than Danehill himself.
 
An extra line of DANZIG is proving no problem for these sons of Danehill mares. Teofilo has sired Irish classic winners from daughters of SINNDAR and GRAND LODGE, and his successful sire son Havana Gold is out of a grand-daughter of GREEN DESERT. Teofilo also has Group winners out of daughters of GREEN DESERT, SHAADI and ZIETEN as well as several good winners out of mares by ANABAA. Frankel’s first crop contains stakes winners out of daughters of INVINCIBLE SPIRIT, OASIS DREAM and DANEHILL DANCER. Teofilo also has very useful winners inbred 3x3 to DANEHILL.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 9:23am
A lot of really good people at Coolmore, but with respect, I would urge caution when taking pedigree advice from any stud. 

In the case of the Danzig duplication in Frankel's progeny, we see that this comes with further lines of Northern Dancer.  Going back to my original post, we can reflect upon the different nature of ND sons with Danzig and Sadler's Wells being the two sons in Frankel's pedigree.  Perhaps we are building on the ND influence rather than the Danzig duplication.


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 11:04am
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

Probably a bit expensive, but Highland Reel offers a different mating but one with plenty of positives.  The added advantage is that he is likely to be the best racehorse standing in Victoria and perhaps Australia.

Elvis and Haradasun’s moderate success don’t deter you? What sort of mares do you think are his best bet?
My apologies for not commenting further on this question, but it was one that was always going to take a bit of time.  It might also be more appropriate for this to be moved to the Stallions section.

Firstly, the performance of Elvstroem and Haradasun bear little importance on the performance of Highland Reel at stud.  Clearly he is a very different prospect although he hails from the same family.  Importantly, both Haradasun and Elvstroem have shown they can produce a good horse.  I believe that if a stallion can do that, it is often the breeders rather than the stallion that are more responsible for the failures. In the case of Elvstroem, it was often the largely outcross pedigree that resulted in his best progeny.  Having said that, Hucklebuck, clearly his best son saw a number of lines of ND together with Biscay although nothing closer than 4x5.  This is rather remarkable when we see that Elvstroem himself had no inbreeding within five generations, and many could argue that this lack of inbreeding was going to impact negatively on his impact as a stallion.

But I digress from the point which is Highland Reel.  One of the big plusses of course is just how good a racehorse he was, especially when we consider that Victoria often gets the second level of performers compared with NSW.  Highland Reel of course has far more inbreeding than Elvstroem, and this could be of benefit.  However, we do see a bit of this is Northern Dancer in the forms of Sadler's Wells/Galileo and Danzig/Danehill.  It will be difficult to find a lot of outcross pedigrees for Highland Reel so we must consider how best to utilise these ND lines.  Most likely we need to stay away from additional lines of Sadler's Wells and Danehill so this will be quite difficult, but I would be looking at pushing this further back if necessary.  Daughters or granddaughters of Encosta De Lago could be considered but again, a little query for me over duplicating Fairy Bridge too often.  

In the case of a possible mating with Duty With Honour, we see a close duplication of Danehill.  Is this ideal?  Perhaps it is, because Galileo clearly has not had the success here as overseas.  Possibly we need to breed away from the Sadler's Wells line, and maybe this is the best way.  Personally, it is a more risky strategy, although one that will be recommended in certain cases, and in this instance, the mare has had success with close inbreeding so this may be one of those cases.  The other positive here is that Highland Reel obviously owed much to his strong colonial line, and breeding to that Star Kingdom/Bletchingly/Biscay/Marscay line could be a key locally.  Again Duty With Honour ticks this box, so another positive in the mating.  By and large though I would generally suggest breeding away from Danehill line mares in most cases.

Unlike Elvstroem and Haradasun, Highland Reel pushes the more extreme stamina influence of Zamazaan further back in the pedigree and this is not a bad thing in the case of most local stallions.  Grandsons of Zabeel, and even great grandsons are having a bigger impact than his sons as an example.  Along with this, pushing Sadler's Wells influence a little back in the sire line is a likely positive under local conditions.

I think Highland Reel will take some planning when utilising, but he had a deal of speed, so it is not out and out speed lines that are required.  I would not be concerned with ND line stallions but would suggest that some speed lines need to be in the pedigree relatively close up.  In general though, I would probably favour mares from families that have produced plenty of the miler types rather than the real early 2yo type families.  By and large I would probably baulk a little as well with close up stamina lines.  Highland Reel isn't going to regularly produce early 2yo's, so the Australian market will always struggle a little with him, but given good opportunity, I think he will certainly produce some quality runners.

A few stallions whose daughters/grandaughters could work include Mossman, Iglesia/Written Tycoon, Charge Forward, More Than Ready, Bel Esprit etc.  The trick is finding these sort of lines without close up Danehill lines.



Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 4:13pm
Another stallion who matches beautifully is Exosphere. His first foals sold well with good reports and I believe when I last spoke with them at least, that you would just sneak into your price range.


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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 4:17pm

Sorry I thought your max was 15. I see it is 14. You would need 15 + for Exosphere.



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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: Mumtaz
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 5:35pm
I heard from a friend yesterday that Exosphere (and his sire) is booked out.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 6:23pm
Yes Exosphere comes up ok, though I'm happy if he's fully booked as it costs a fortune to send a mare from Vic to the Hunter for any length of time.

Plus of course Darley is great at selling clients semen, but pretty useless when selling any resultant foal.


Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 6:24pm
Ok Mumtaz. Not surprised there I suppose.
My mail was a few weeks old which is a long time these days.
On that note, I have never known so many stallions to be booked out so soon before.
Makes a bit of a mockery of the stallion inspection open days. For many of them anyway!
 


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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 11:15pm
Got a friend who bought a mare for 3 thousand $$ ,,,sent her to Exosphere and got a cracking colt , who just sold for $160 thousand,,,,he is over the moon,,,but,,the colt was black, and the chinese love black horses, and China Horse Club bought him.   Some times you can get lucky.  Big smile


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animals before people.



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