Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses
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Topic: Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses
Posted By: djebel
Subject: Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 2:54pm
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In chronological order
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda 1886.....Cynisca 1887.....Lady Zetland 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform 1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist 1910....Warstep 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold 1918....Furious 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle 1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1942....Soneri 1946....Sweet Spray 1946....Chicquita 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe 1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers 1966....Gay Poss 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate 1969....Analie 1970....Leilani 1969....Toltrice 1971....Cap D'Antibes 1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround 1975....My Blue Denim 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation 1980....Abit Leica 1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks 1983....Special 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm 1986....Courtza 1986....Joanne 1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism 1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic 1990....Snap 1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Isca 1995....Sunline 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal 1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous 2007....Pinker Pinker 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Silent Achiever 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka
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Replies:
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:22pm
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Nice list.
I think Melbourne Cup winning filly Auraria deserves to be there though and I would have given some thought to True Course too, but these things go on forever.
Now, put them in order of merit 
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:38pm
 Tontonan wrote:
Nice list.
I think Melbourne Cup winning filly Auraria deserves to be there though and I would have given some thought to True Course too, but these things go on forever.
Now, put them in order of merit
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Analysis of Champion Racehorses by Peter Pring and The Thoroughbred Press published 1977, arrived this am and inspired this list, I had always wanted to do a list of mares.
I wonder why Auraria was not included in this book. All her winning was done 1895, I wonder if that counted against her ?
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:39pm
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Before we go Tontonan , there are 3 I'm glad to see on your list , 2 picked themselves being Wiggle and Wenona Girl, but the third Yahabeebe I was delighted to see , had a soft spot for her in my very young days , great list btw.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:39pm
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Both mares records would get them in in front of some of the later mares I have included.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:51pm
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In chronological order
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda 1886.....Cynisca 1887.....Lady Zetland 1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome 1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist 1910....Warstep 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold 1918....Furious 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn 1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1942....Soneri 1946....Sweet Spray 1946....Chicquita 1847....True Course 1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers 1966....Gay Poss 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate 1969....Analie 1970....Leilani 1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes 1972....Denice's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround 1975....My Blue Denim 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica 1981....Spirit Of Kingston 1981....Tristarc 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks 1983....Special 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm 1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne 1987....Let's Elope 1987....Mannerism 1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic
1990....Snap 1991....Circles Of Gold 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange 2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous 2007....Pinker Pinker 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Silent Achiever 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka
I have eliminated Isca, her career was very brilliant but was just as brief as it was brilliant. Joanne if I am not mistaken is the only non group 1 winner on the list but she was one of the best sprinters I have seen.
This leaves the list at 101 
Do not hesitate to nominate fillies and mares I have missed or you believe deserves recognition.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:54pm
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:55pm
Carioca wrote:
Analie? |
You do not believe she should be there ?
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 3:57pm
No , sorry I didn't see her on the list. 
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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:00pm
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Unworldly? Surely a mare like Mosheen goes in ahead of her.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:04pm
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Maybe a few borderline cases djebel, Begonia Belle, Citius, Indian Summer, Lady Sybil.
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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:04pm
Empire Rose?
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:10pm
Passing Through wrote:
Empire Rose? |
That was a poor miss by me considering she is my timeline. 
Mosheen could possibly be there in front of others but Unwordly did live up to her name and I could not drop her for Mosheen...
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:11pm
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One other who certainly should be there is Storm Queen.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:12pm
djebel wrote:
In chronological order
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda 1886.....Cynisca 1887.....Lady Zetland 1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome 1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist 1910....Warstep 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold 1918....Furious 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn 1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1942....Soneri 1946....Sweet Spray 1946....Chicquita 1847....True Course 1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers 1966....Gay Poss 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate 1969....Analie 1970....Leilani 1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes 1972....Denice's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround 1975....My Blue Denim 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica 1981....Spirit Of Kingston 1981....Tristarc 1982....Empire Rose 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks 1983....Special 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm 1986....Courtza 11
1986....Joanne 1987....Let's Elope 1987....Mannerism 1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic
1990....Snap 1991....Circles Of Gold 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange 2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous 2007....Pinker Pinker 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Silent Achiever 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka
I have eliminated Isca, her career was very brilliant but was just as brief as it was brilliant. Joanne if I am not mistaken is the only non group 1 winner on the list but she was one of the best sprinters I have seen.
This leaves the list at 102
Do not hesitate to nominate fillies and mares I have missed or you believe deserves recognition.
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:14pm
djebel wrote:
[QUOTE=Passing Through]Mosheen could possibly be there in front of others but Unwordly did live up to her name and I could not drop her for Mosheen... |
Right or wrong there'll possibly be a cloud over Mosheen given her trainer's behavior during her time-line.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:14pm
Carioca wrote:
Maybe a few borderline cases djebel, Begonia Belle, Citius, Indian Summer, Lady Sybil. |
Tontonan wrote:
One other who certainly should be there is Storm Queen.
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I wonder why they did not make the cut for THE BOOK ?
I really must read the introduction.  Perhaps he explains what criteria he used.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:42pm
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Pring does outline his criteria in his introduction and it explains most of his omissions. Too detailed to reproduce here.
One more I would consider would be Waltzing Lily, an excellent short courser from the early 1930's - but don't ask me who to leave out if you want to keep the list to 100.
An interesting sidelight is that off the 100 race mares listed 3 produced Melbourne Cup winners - Wakeful, Horlicks and Rose of Kingston (which is pretty good given that the mares on the list are not exclusively staying types).
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:48pm
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Just for info:
True Course - 9 Principal wins Storm Queen - 10 Principal wins |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:56pm
Tontonan wrote:
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Pring does outline his criteria in his introduction and it explains most of his omissions. Too detailed to reproduce here. </span><div style="line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.8px;">One more I would consider would be Waltzing Lily, an excellent short courser from the early 1930's - but don't ask me who to leave out if you want to keep the list to 100. <div style="line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.8px;">An interesting sidelight is that off the 100 race mares listed 3 produced Melbourne Cup winners - Wakeful, Horlicks and Rose of Kingston (which is pretty good given that the mares on the list are not exclusively staying types). |
He started off with horses who won greater than 50% of their races, he also wanted them to have at least one major handicap carrying greater than WFA and worked from there.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:22pm
Alternatively Pring allowed for -- horses that had run a national time record or a race record in a principal race,
-- that the horse should have performed at the championship level for at least 3 campaigns,
-- and they had 20 starts or more.
-- and won a principal race in Melbourne or Sydney, Auckland or Wellington.
He also admits he stretched his guidelines to include horses that didn't meet them but he regarded worthy. Even then he regrets not having been able to find space for NTB's like Aquanita and horses like Gothic. |
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 1:38am
It might be easier on the scrolling wheels if we squeeze them into a table like this....
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1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
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1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
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1933....Rivette ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
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1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
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1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
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1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat OfThe Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
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1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
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1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
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1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
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2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 1:40am
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Or even better...
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1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
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1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
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1933....Rivette ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
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1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
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1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
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1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat OfThe Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
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1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
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1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
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1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
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2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 12:09pm
Tontonan wrote:
Or even better...
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1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
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1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
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1933....Rivette ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
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1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
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1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
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1981....Tristarc 1982....Empire Rose
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1987....Let's Elope
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1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
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1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
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1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
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2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka
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Outstanding as usual Tontonan.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 1:23pm
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It would also be interesting to do the same with broodmares - the greatest 100 Australasian Broodmares throughout time. Interesting that some of the oldest mares on that list have female lines still producing stakes horses. My namesake isn't one of them as she didn't have any foals. From one extreme to the next.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 1:32pm
furious wrote:
It would also be interesting to do the same with broodmares - the greatest 100 Australasian Broodmares throughout time. Interesting that some of the oldest mares on that list have female lines still producing stakes horses. My namesake isn't one of them as she didn't have any foals. From one extreme to the next. |
Where would you start ?
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:20pm
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The producers of more that three G1 winners and move up or down as the case may be. You could put in mares who only produced stakes winners etc. Or then you could add ones with only winning foals and most stakes winners etc. Dams of Champions usually wouldn't make the list as Champions seem to be one offs. Except of course with Octagonal's dam etc.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:23pm
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Sunbride might be there furious?
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:25pm
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I was going to look into it from a Matriarchs point of view or taproot much like I understand Bruce Lowe was about ?
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:29pm
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Well you could do either. Taproot mare line still producing today will find mares like Juliet, Eulogy, Manto etc and they would be on the other list also although Manto you'd have to take on race credit so maybe not. She was well before the real G1 races started.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:30pm
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Yes Sunbride would make the cut for sure.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:42pm
furious wrote:
Well you could do either. Taproot mare line still producing today will find mares like Juliet, Eulogy, Manto etc and they would be on the other list also although Manto you'd have to take on race credit so maybe not. She was well before the real G1 races started. |
http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Manto_GB-65026/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Manto_GB-65026/2
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:16pm
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Ever heard of Madowla a daughter of Trenton. She had 6 stakeswinners of 14 stakes races including
Glenculloch - GN Foals S, North Island Challenge S
Glenowlet - Dunedin Champagne S, CJC Champagne S, GN Foal S, Welleseley S
Madam Madcap - CJC Champagne S, Great Easter H, Jocky Club H
Masterpiece - CJC Derby, DJC McLean S
Quarryman - CJC Metropolitan H, Hawkes Bay Guineas, Wanganui Cup
then her daughters Kirriemuir (3 stakeswinners of 10 stakes races), Glenowlet (3 stakeswinner of 5 stakes races), Discipline (2 stakewinners of 5 stakes races) produced Moorfowl - Wellesley S, Canteruby Welcom S, Wellington S
Royal Stag - Dunedin Cup McLean S, GN Derby, Dunedin Guineas
Wild Hind - Dunedin Guineas, Dunedin Champagne S, Jockey Club H
Brown Owl - Dunedin Champagne S, Oaks S
Nightwatch - Dunedin Champagne S, Champagne S
Owiscombe - CJC Champagne S
Adjutant - Champagne S, Jockey Club H, WRC Autumn H
Court Martial - CJC Oaks S
In Australia this female line produced Playboy (AJC Derby, St Leger, C B Fisher Plate, King's Plate, Hill S, Craven Plate, AJC Plate etc)
There are lots out there which people have totally forgotten
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:23pm
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Or what about another daughter of Trenton in Lady Trenton who produced 4 stakeswinners of 20 stakesraces
Dividend - VRC Champion S (twice), Essendon S (twice), AJC St Leter, C B Fisher P, AJC Plate, Cumberland S etc
Lady Rylstone - VRC Oaks, AJC Champagne S
Lord Cardigan - Melbourne Cup, Sydney Cup, AJC Plate, Randwick Plate (twice)
Strata Florida - Caulfield Guineas
Then her daughers produced
Lord Nolan - Melbourne Cup, AJC St Leter S
Kingbier PARC CHristmas H, ARC City H
This line still thrives mostly through the decendants of Rainbird (Melbourne Cup)
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:25pm
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Bonnie Rosette was to become the ancestress of Kaoru Star but she was pretty good in her day with
Bonnie Chiel - Toorak H, Eclipse S
Kinglike - Eclipse S, Caulfield Guineas
Mountain King - AJC Derby, VRC Derby, AJC All Aged S, VRC St Leger, AJC St Leger, Rawson S, Craven plate etc
Scottish King - VRC St Leger, St George S etc
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:29pm
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Witty Maid had her foals win 43 stakes races
Comedy Prince - Adelaide Guineas, SA Sires' Produce S, Oaklands Plate, William Reid S etc
Comic Court - Melbourne Cup, Caulfield S, VRC Derby, William Reid S, Oaklands Plate, VRC St Leger S, C F Orr S, L K S Mackinnon S (twice), Alister Clark S, Ascot Vale S, Memsie S (twice), Turnbull S (thrice) etc etc etc
Gay Comedy - SA St Leger S, Auraria S, SA Oaks
St Comedy - Fulham Park Plate, Goodwood H, Adelaide Guineas, Ascot Vale S, Moonee Valley S etc
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:34pm
furious wrote:
Or what about another daughter of Trenton in Lady Trenton who produced 4 stakeswinners of 20 stakesraces
Dividend - VRC Champion S (twice), Essendon S (twice), AJC St Leter, C B Fisher P, AJC Plate, Cumberland S etc
Lady Rylstone - VRC Oaks, AJC Champagne S
Lord Cardigan - Melbourne Cup, Sydney Cup, AJC Plate, Randwick Plate (twice)
Strata Florida - Caulfield Guineas
Then her daughers produced
Lord Nolan - Melbourne Cup, AJC St Leter S
Kingbier PARC CHristmas H, ARC City H
This line still thrives mostly through the decendants of Rainbird (Melbourne Cup) |
Ancestress of Seabrook this years Champagne Stakes winner.
http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Lady_Trenton_AUS-413660/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Lady_Trenton_AUS-413660/2
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:53pm
furious wrote:
Witty Maid had her foals win 43 stakes races
Comedy Prince - Adelaide Guineas, SA Sires' Produce S, Oaklands Plate, William Reid S etc
Comic Court - Melbourne Cup, Caulfield S, VRC Derby, William Reid S, Oaklands Plate, VRC St Leger S, C F Orr S, L K S Mackinnon S (twice), Alister Clark S, Ascot Vale S, Memsie S (twice), Turnbull S (thrice) etc etc etc
Gay Comedy - SA St Leger S, Auraria S, SA Oaks
St Comedy - Fulham Park Plate, Goodwood H, Adelaide Guineas, Ascot Vale S, Moonee Valley S etc |
Hangs to life just.........
Highrail Danehill (AUS)
Bay 2000 | Danehill
Bay 1986 | Danzig
Bay 1977 | Northern Dancer
Bay 1961 | Nearctic
Natalma | 1954
1957 | 14-c
2-d | Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968 | Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner | 1959
1952 | 4-n
7-a | Razyana
Bay 1981 | His Majesty
Bay 1968 | Ribot
Flower Bowl | 1952
1952 | 4-l
4-d | Spring Adieu
Bay 1974 | Buckpasser
Natalma | 1963
1957 | 1-s
2-d | Parisianna
Bay 1996 | Highest Honor
Grey 1983 | Kenmare
Grey 1975 | Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland | 1970
1964 | 9-c
1-m | High River
Bay 1978 | Riverman
Hairbrush | 1969
1970 | 10-a
10-c | Plessaya
Bay 1988 | Nureyev
Bay 1977 | Northern Dancer
Special | 1961
1969 | 2-d
5-h | Perlita
Bay 1972 | Baldric
Pola Bella | 1961
1965 | 13-c
4-n | Beldalou (AUS)
Bay 2008 | Bel Esprit
Bay 1999 | Royal Academy
Bay 1987 | Nijinsky
Bay 1967 | Northern Dancer
Flaming Page | 1961
1959 | 2-d
8-f | Crimson Saint
Chestnut 1969 | Crimson Satan
Bolero Rose | 1959
1958 | 26>
8-c | Bespoken
Brown 1990 | Vain
Chestnut 1966 | Wilkes
Elated | 1952
1957 | 13-c
A10 | Vin d'Amour
Bay 1981 | Adios
Gliteren | 1970
1969 | 6-f
34> | Voodalou
Brown 1994 | Voodoo Rhythm
Bay 1977 | Northern Dancer
Bay 1961 | Nearctic
Natalma | 1954
1957 | 14-c
2-d | Obeah
Bay 1965 | Cyane
Book of Verse | 1959
1956 | 16-b
2-f | Comic Gamble
Brown 1977 | Gay Gambler
Bay or brown 1969 | Hail to Reason
Bug Brush | 1958
1955 | 4-n
10-c | Dainty Lou
Brown 1958 | Tesmic
Dainty Comedy | 1947
1950 | 1-n
1-b |
| | Ancestor duplications: | Northern Dancer | 4m,5m x 5m,4m | | Natalma | 5m,5f x 5m |
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:53pm
Fiorente (IRE)
Brown 2008 | Monsun
Bay or brown 1990 | Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976 | Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961 | Tamerlane
Donna Diana | 1952
1956 | 1-e
6-e | Konigskronung
Brown 1965 | Tiepoletto
Kronung | 1956
1957 | 2-c
5-h | Mosella
Bay 1985 | Surumu
Chestnut 1974 | Literat
Surama | 1965
1970 | 7-b
19> | Monasia
Bay 1979 | Authi
Monacensia | 1970
1969 | 14-b
8-a | Desert Bloom
Bay 2000 | Pilsudski
Bay 1992 | Polish Precedent
Bay 1986 | Danzig
Past Example | 1977
1976 | 7-a
8-h | Cocotte
Bay 1983 | Troy
Gay Milly | 1976
1977 | 1-b
11> | Desert Beauty
Bay 1994 | Green Desert
Bay 1983 | Danzig
Foreign Courier | 1977
1979 | 7-a
A4 | Hellenic
Bay 1987 | Darshaan
Grecian Sea | 1981
1978 | 13-c
5-h | Dark Tan (AUS)
Brown 2010 | Statue of Liberty
Brown or black 2000 | Storm Cat
Bay or brown 1983 | Storm Bird
Bay 1978 | Northern Dancer
South Ocean | 1961
1967 | 2-d
4-j | Terlingua
Chestnut 1976 | Secretariat
Crimson Saint | 1970
1969 | 2-s
8-c | Charming Lassie
Bay or brown 1987 | Seattle Slew
Bay or brown 1974 | Bold Reasoning
My Charmer | 1968
1969 | 1-k
13-c | Lassie Dear
Bay 1974 | Buckpasser
Gay Missile | 1963
1967 | 1-s
3-l | Voodalou
Brown 1994 | Voodoo Rhythm
Bay 1977 | Northern Dancer
Bay 1961 | Nearctic
Natalma | 1954
1957 | 14-c
2-d | Obeah
Bay 1965 | Cyane
Book of Verse | 1959
1956 | 16-b
2-f | Comic Gamble
Brown 1977 | Gay Gambler
Bay or brown 1969 | Hail to Reason
Bug Brush | 1958
1955 | 4-n
10-c | Dainty Lou
Brown 1958 | Tesmic
Dainty Comedy | 1947
1950 | 1-n
1-b |
| | Ancestor duplications: | Danzig | 5m,5m x | | Northern Dancer | x 5m,4m | | |
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:58pm
| Millanta's Wish (AUS) 1977 | | | | | Aust.Id.: 35394 | brown stallion | Date of Birth: 04/11/1977 |
| | | | by Knightly Manner (USA) 1961 | |
| | from Irma La Douce (AUS) 1969 | | |
| | bred by Mr BT Chapman, NSW | |
|
|
|
| Named Stallion Produce in Australia | | Click on column headings to sort by column | | Season | Colour | Sex | Name | Dam | | 1983 | b or br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=240230" rel="nofollow - Chellanta | Merry Phantom (AUS) 1978 | | 1983 | br | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=383939" rel="nofollow - Cordeaux | Aquilegia (AUS) 1975 | | 1983 | br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=320768" rel="nofollow - Kermington | Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976 | | 1984 | br | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=292743" rel="nofollow - Cadoobine | Dancing Puppet (AUS) 1978 | | 1984 | b or br | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=234447" rel="nofollow - Man Of Millanta | Raymiss (AUS) 1975 | | 1984 | ch | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=324952" rel="nofollow - Monday's Child | Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976 | | 1984 | dun | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=108366" rel="nofollow - Princess Poco ntb | Mallard's Poco (AUS) 1963 ntb | | 1984 | br | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=57790" rel="nofollow - Rocky Port | Cherry Port (AUS) 1974 | | 1984 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=346801" rel="nofollow - Thursday's Child | Tia Mia (AUS) 1970 | | 1985 | b | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=245971" rel="nofollow - Chasmat's Wish | Tia Mia (AUS) 1970 | | 1985 | b | gelding | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=368556" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Boy | Close Company (NZ) 1978 | | 1985 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=11622" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Profile | Golden Profile (AUS) 1973 | | 1985 | b or br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=291276" rel="nofollow - Mrs. Knox | Native Archon (AUS) 1977 | | 1985 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=27361" rel="nofollow - Pie In The Sky | Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975 | | 1986 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=103051" rel="nofollow - Oak Alley | Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975 | | 1986 | ch | gelding | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=55741" rel="nofollow - Son Of Millanta | Tia Mia (AUS) 1970 | | 1986 | ch | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=200382" rel="nofollow - Wish Of Beauty | Penanna (AUS) 1977 | | 1987 | ch | gelding | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=411778" rel="nofollow - Dabeca's Wish | Dabeca (AUS) 1982 | | 1987 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=404661" rel="nofollow - Lady Of Millanta | Lady Archon (AUS) 1973 | | 1987 | ch | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=396403" rel="nofollow - Lord Of Millanta | Minor Touch (AUS) 1980 | | 1987 | br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=403074" rel="nofollow - Maid Of Millanta | Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976 | | 1987 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=404712" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Breeze | Wild Breeze (AUS) 1982 | | 1987 | b | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=397623" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Mill | Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975 | | 1987 | br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=412266" rel="nofollow - Natmill | Native Archon (AUS) 1977 | | 1989 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=458466" rel="nofollow - Get Set | Duchess Rai (AUS) 1979 | | 1989 | ch | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=541551" rel="nofollow - Vienna Wish | Red Glow (AUS) 1977 | | 1989 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=470833" rel="nofollow - Wattlebloom ntb | Navy Cut (AUS) 1982 ntb | | 1990 | br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=456655" rel="nofollow - Star Of Millantas | Commercial Value (AUS) 1984 | | 1991 | br | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=550479" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Doll | Flying Doll (AUS) 1980 | | 1991 | ch | gelding | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=563111" rel="nofollow - Windslide | Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976 | | 1992 | b | colt | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=500615" rel="nofollow - Cupid's Boy | Cherry Nook (AUS) 1986 | | 1992 | b | filly | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=519505" rel="nofollow - Miss Charlotte | Calais Miss (AUS) 1987 | | 1993 | b or br | gelding | https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=549678" rel="nofollow - How To Wish | How Now Then (AUS) 1987 |
|
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:03pm
|
Furious, The Witty Maid family hangs on by the skin of its teeth through Beldalua and Dark Tan, They have been visiting good stallions so hopefully it can be rejuvenated.
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:47pm
|
The most recent version of the table with Abit Leica removed and Auraria and
True Course added. The top row conveniently ends in 1979 with the
introduction of Group racing. The bottom line is a bit fat IMO.
There are some champion mares there but others were just top class. But it
is probably better to have too many and them edit than not have enough... which
reminds me... why 100 ?
|
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
|
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
|
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
|
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
|
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
|
|
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose
(NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
(NZ)
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
(NZ)
1986....Courtza
|
1987....Let's Elope
(NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
(NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
(NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
(NZ)
1990....Snap
(NZ)
|
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
(NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline
(NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
(NZ)
1997....Unwordly
|
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
(NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
|
2003....Tuesday Joy
(NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka
|
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:54pm
|
100 is a nice round figure, But as you say eventually it got a little modern era heavy.
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:56pm
| MISS KATE (GB) | Brown filly 1873 | |
Adventurer
Bay 1859 | Newminster
Bay 1848 | Touchstone
Brown 1831 | Camel
Brown 1822 | Whalebone
A Mare | 1807
1812 | 1-o
24> | Banter
Brown 1826 | Master Henry
Boadicea | 1815
1807 | 3-b
14> | Beeswing
Bay 1833 | Dr Syntax
Brown 1811 | Paynator
A Mare | 1791
0000 |
| A Mare
Chestnut 1817 | Ardrossan
Lady Eliza | 1809
1813 | 2-a
8> | Palma
Brown 1840 | Emilius
Bay 1820 | Orville
Bay 1799 | Beningbrough
Evelina | 1791
1791 | 7>
8-a | Emily
Chestnut 1810 | Stamford
A Mare | 1794
1799 |
28> | Francesca
Brown 1829 | Partisan
Bay 1811 | Walton
Parasol | 1799
1800 | 7>
1-e | A Mare
Brown 1815 | Orville
A Mare | 1799
1800 | 8-a
12-g | Sporting Life
Brown 1858 | The Prime Minister
Brown 1848 | Melbourne
Brown 1834 | Humphrey Clinker
Bay 1822 | Comus
Clinkerina | 1809
1812 | 25>
8-a | A Mare
Bay 1825 | Cervantes
A Mare | 1806
1818 | 8-a
1-a | Pantalonade
Bay 1839 | Pantaloon
Chestnut 1824 | Castrel
Idalia | 1801
1815 | 2-n
17-a | Festival
Black 1836 | Camel
Michaelmas | 1822
1818 | 24>
27> | Candlewick
Chestnut 1847 | The Prime Warden
Bay 1834 | Cadland
Brown 1825 | Andrew
Sorcery | 1816
1808 | 1-b
12-a | Zarina
Chestnut 1827 | Morisco
Ina | 1819
1821 | 12-c
17> | Maid of Burghley
Bay 1837 | Sultan
Bay 1816 | Selim
Bacchante | 1802
1809 | 2-n
8-b | Palais Royal
Brown 1820 | Blucher
A Mare | 1811
1814 | 4-b
2-r |
| | Ancestor duplications: | Camel | 4m x 5f | | Orville | 4m,5f x |
I suspect the above mare is greatest taproot mare in Australasia ?
http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Miss_Kate_GB-206150/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Miss_Kate_GB-206150/2
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:58pm
|
Interesting that she probably wouldn't make the list nor the dam of Phar Lap but Phar Laps sister Raphis would just about qualify depending on proper research.
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:02pm
furious wrote:
Interesting that she probably wouldn't make the list nor the dam of Phar Lap but Phar Laps sister Raphis would just about qualify depending on proper research. |
If you open that link I provide you might have a different idea ?
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:21pm
|
doesn't work for me Djebel. Yes she had two stakes winners but not the three and above which I was starting with.
|
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:29pm
|
I think AJC Derby winner Monte Carlo may have been out of a sister to Raphis , or a daughter of?
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:32pm
Carioca wrote:
I think AJC Derby winner Monte Carlo may have been out of a sister to Raphis , or a daughter of? |
| Monte Carlo (NZ) 1953 | | | | | Aust.Id.: 214087 | bay stallion | Date of Birth: 00/00/1953 |
| | | | | |
|
|
| Stakes or Principal Race Wins | | Year | Race Name | Status | Distance | | 1956 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4005" rel="nofollow - AJC Derby | Pr | 12F | | 1956 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4006" rel="nofollow - VRC Victoria Derby | Pr | 12F | | 1957 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=5234" rel="nofollow - AJC St Leger Stakes | Pr | 14F | | 1957 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4202" rel="nofollow - City Tattersall's Club (Gold) Cup | Pr | 12F | | 1958 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4016" rel="nofollow - AJC The Metropolitan | Pr | 13F | | 1958 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4324" rel="nofollow - STC Cup | Pr | 12F | | 1958 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4502" rel="nofollow - Tatt's NSW Club Cup | Pr | 12F | | 1958 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4341" rel="nofollow - VRC L.K.S Mackinnon Stakes | Pr | 10F | | 1958 | https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=5039" rel="nofollow - VRC Queen's Plate | Pr | 10F |
| MONTE CARLO (NZ) | Bay colt 1953 | |
Lucky Bag
Bay 1944 | Windsor Slipper
Bay 1939 | Windsor Lad
Bay 1931 | Blandford
Bay 1919 | Swynford
Blanche | 1907
1912 | 1-g
3-o | Resplendent
Bay 1923 | By George!
Sunbridge | 1911
1914 | 4-n
19-b | Carpet Slipper
Bay 1930 | Phalaris
Brown 1913 | Polymelus
Bromus | 1902
1905 | 3-f
1-i | Simon's Shoes
Bay 1914 | Simon Square
Goody Two-Shoes | 1904
1899 | 4-n
5-h | Sun Princess
Bay 1937 | Solario
Bay 1922 | Gainsborough
Bay 1915 | Bayardo
Rosedrop | 1906
1907 | 10-a
2-n | Sun Worship
Bay 1912 | Sundridge
Doctrine | 1898
1899 | 2-g
26> | Mumtaz Begum
Bay 1932 | Blenheim
Brown 1927 | Blandford
Malva | 1919
1919 | 3-o
1-e | Mumtaz Mahal
Grey 1921 | The Tetrarch
Lady Josephine | 1911
1912 | 2-o
9-c | Bobalong
Brown 1946 | Lord Bobs
Bay 1941 | Nearco
Brown 1935 | Pharos
Bay 1920 | Phalaris
Scapa Flow | 1913
1914 | 1-i
13-e | Nogara
Bay 1928 | Havresac
Catnip | 1915
1910 | 8-h
4-r | Sister Sarah
Bay 1930 | Abbots Trace
Chestnut 1917 | Tracery
Abbots Anne | 1909
1899 | 19-a
4-j | Sarita
Brown 1924 | Swynford
Molly Desmond | 1907
1914 | 1-g
14-c | Raphis
Brown 1934 | Night Raid
Bay 1918 | Radium
Bay 1903 | Bend Or
Taia | 1877
1892 | 1-k
3-c | Sentiment
Bay 1912 | Spearmint
Flair | 1903
1903 | 1-c
1-m | Entreaty
Brown 1920 | Winkie
Chestnut 1912 | William the Third
Conjure | 1898
1895 | 2-e
1-p | Prayer Wheel
Bay 1905 | Pilgrim's Progress
Catherine Wheel | 1889
1891 | 1-g
2-r |
| | Ancestor duplications: | Swynford | 5m x 5f | | Blandford | 4m,5m x | | Phalaris | 4f x 5m |
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
|
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:34pm
Monte Carloe known progeny| http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Horse&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Horse | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Color&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Color | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Sex&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Sex | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Year&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Year | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Dam&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Dam | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Broodmare&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - BM Sire | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Record&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Record | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Earnings&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Earnings | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Family&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Family | | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/careen2" rel="nofollow - CAREEN2 (USA) | dkb/br | M | 1967 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/eveleen" rel="nofollow - EVELEEN | http://www.pedigreequery.com/quarter+deck" rel="nofollow - QUARTER DECK | 34-1-3-5 | $3,624 | 1-a | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CAREEN2" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/carlomine" rel="nofollow - CARLOMINE (USA) | ch | M | 1963 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/street+urchin2" rel="nofollow - STREET URCHIN2 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/alibhai" rel="nofollow - ALIBHAI | ?-?-?-? | | 2-s | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CARLOMINE" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/creme+de+carlo" rel="nofollow - CREME DE CARLO (USA) | b | M | 1964 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/evening+sun" rel="nofollow - EVENING SUN | http://www.pedigreequery.com/fritz+maisel" rel="nofollow - FRITZ MAISEL | 45-5-4-9 | $12,350 | 8-d | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CREME+DE+CARLO" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/donatina+m" rel="nofollow - DONATINA M | | M | 1969 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/winding+way" rel="nofollow - WINDING WAY | http://www.pedigreequery.com/mr+busher" rel="nofollow - MR BUSHER | ?-?-?-? | | 13-c | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=DONATINA+M" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/earls+pride" rel="nofollow - EARLS PRIDE (USA) | dkb/br | H | 1966 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/doriss+pride" rel="nofollow - DORISS PRIDE | http://www.pedigreequery.com/eds+pride" rel="nofollow - EDS PRIDE | 113-?-?-? | ?? | 5-i | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=EARLS+PRIDE" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/gambling+gal" rel="nofollow - GAMBLING GAL (USA) | | F | 1964 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/restless+lady" rel="nofollow - RESTLESS LADY | http://www.pedigreequery.com/star+pilot" rel="nofollow - STAR PILOT | ?-?-?-? | | 9 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GAMBLING+GAL" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/glenns+lady" rel="nofollow - GLENNS LADY | | F | 1966 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/dianes+doll" rel="nofollow - DIANES DOLL | http://www.pedigreequery.com/beechpark" rel="nofollow - BEECHPARK | ?-?-?-? | | A4 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GLENNS+LADY" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/green+felt" rel="nofollow - GREEN FELT (USA) | ch | H | 1963 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/dizzy+whirl" rel="nofollow - DIZZY WHIRL | http://www.pedigreequery.com/whirlaway" rel="nofollow - WHIRLAWAY | 38-8-?-? | $90,675 | 2-s | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GREEN+FELT" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/historical+hit" rel="nofollow - HISTORICAL HIT | | H | 1967 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/fashion+hit" rel="nofollow - FASHION HIT | http://www.pedigreequery.com/high+breeze" rel="nofollow - HIGH BREEZE | ?-?-?-? | | 4-i | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=HISTORICAL+HIT" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/ile+emeraude" rel="nofollow - ILE EMERAUDE (USA) | ch | M | 1964 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/cheers3" rel="nofollow - CHEERS3 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/cormac" rel="nofollow - CORMAC | 39-3-0-3 | $3,590 | 2-b | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=ILE+EMERAUDE" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/jacarlo" rel="nofollow - JACARLO (USA) | dkb/br | M | 1964 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/cavorting" rel="nofollow - CAVORTING | http://www.pedigreequery.com/jacopo" rel="nofollow - JACOPO | ?-?-?-? | | 22-c | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=JACARLO" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/junior+pie" rel="nofollow - JUNIOR PIE | | C | 1967 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/badger+pie" rel="nofollow - BADGER PIE | http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+warrior" rel="nofollow - MY WARRIOR | ?-?-?-? | | A1 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=JUNIOR+PIE" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/la+scala15" rel="nofollow - LA SCALA15 (USA) | | F | 1963 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+serenade3" rel="nofollow - MY SERENADE3 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/royal+serenade" rel="nofollow - ROYAL SERENADE | ?-?-?-? | | 1-p | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=LA+SCALA15" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/pass+quietly" rel="nofollow - PASS QUIETLY | | M | 1964 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/whispered" rel="nofollow - WHISPERED | http://www.pedigreequery.com/requested" rel="nofollow - REQUESTED | ?-?-?-? | | 2-o | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=PASS+QUIETLY" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/tinkers+dam" rel="nofollow - TINKERS DAM | | F | 1968 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/dark+topaze" rel="nofollow - DARK TOPAZE | http://www.pedigreequery.com/piping+rock" rel="nofollow - PIPING ROCK | ?-?-?-? | | 4-b | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=TINKERS+DAM" rel="nofollow - Edit | | http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+gamble2" rel="nofollow - TOP GAMBLE2 | | G | 1966 | http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+cap" rel="nofollow - TOP CAP | http://www.pedigreequery.com/capot" rel="nofollow - CAPOT | ?-?-?-? | | 16-g | http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=TOP+GAMBLE2" rel="nofollow - Edit |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:35pm
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That was quick lol, seen him on track, beautiful animal.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:36pm
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Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:52pm
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Also the family of Planet Kingdom who really should of been a Champion Sire if he hadn't died after he broke his leg in an accident.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:29pm
djebel wrote:
Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?
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Always of the opinion he was a gelding , most of trainer Frank Daltons were.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:43pm
djebel wrote:
Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?
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You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 8:00pm
Carioca wrote:
djebel wrote:
Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?
|
You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there. |
Pretty sure this is Tontonans site ? 
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 8:02pm
djebel wrote:
Carioca wrote:
djebel wrote:
Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?
|
You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there. |
Pretty sure this is Tontonans site ? |
It is and it's an excellent site, a lot of work has gone into it fwiw.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 9:19pm
| Lady Zetland | bay mare 1887 | |
Perkin Warbeck (GB)
Bay 1872 | Adventurer
Bay 1859 | Newminster
Bay 1848 | Touchstone
Brown 1831 | Camel
Banter | 1822
1826 | 24>
14-a | Beeswing
Bay 1833 | Dr Syntax
A Mare | 1811
1817 |
8> | Palma
Brown 1840 | Emilius
Bay 1820 | Orville
Emily | 1799
1810 | 8-a
28> | Francesca
Brown 1829 | Partisan
A Mare | 1811
1815 | 1-e
12-g | Bumblekite
Bay 1864 | Voltigeur
Brown 1847 | Voltaire
Brown 1826 | Blacklock
A Mare | 1814
1816 | 2-t
12-a | Martha Lynn
Brown 1837 | Mulatto
Leda | 1823
1824 | 5-a
2-f | Sweetbriar
Bay 1858 | Stockwell
Chestnut 1849 | The Baron
Pocahontas | 1842
1837 | 24>
3-n | Eglantine
Bay 1853 | The Flying Dutchman
Azalia | 1846
1834 | 3-i
42> | Forget-Me-Not (GB)
Bay 1877 | King Lud
Bay 1869 | King Tom
Bay 1851 | Harkaway
Chestnut 1834 | Economist
Fanny Dawson | 1825
1823 | 36>
2> | Pocahontas
Chestnut 1837 | Glencoe
Marpessa | 1831
1830 | 1-t
3-m | Qui Vive
Brown 1856 | Voltigeur
Brown 1847 | Voltaire
Martha Lynn | 1826
1837 | 12-a
2-h | Mrs Ridgway
Bay 1849 | Birdcatcher
Nan Darrell | 1833
1844 | 11-d
19-b | Mysotis
Bay 1865 | Newminster
Bay 1848 | Touchstone
Brown 1831 | Camel
Banter | 1822
1826 | 24>
14-a | Beeswing
Bay 1833 | Dr Syntax
A Mare | 1811
1817 |
8> | Souvenir
Grey 1856 | Chanticleer
Grey 1843 | Birdcatcher
Whim | 1833
1832 | 11-d
23> | Birthday
Bay 1850 | Assault
Nitocris | 1845
1829 | 20-a
11-g |
| | Ancestor duplications: | Newminster | 3m x 3f | | Voltigeur | 3f x 4f | | Pocahontas | 5m x 4m | | | | | Birdcatcher | x 5f,5m |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 12:41am
Just taking about good mares, can I mentione Dark Jewel ??
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animals before people.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 8:14am
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:44pm
Tontonan wrote:
The most recent version of the table with Abit Leica removed and Auraria and
True Course added. The top row conveniently ends in 1979 with the
introduction of Group racing. The bottom line is a bit fat IMO.
There are some champion mares there but others were just top class. But it
is probably better to have too many and them edit than not have enough... which
reminds me... why 100 ?
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1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
|
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
|
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
|
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
|
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
|
|
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose
(NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
(NZ)
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
(NZ)
1986....Courtza
|
1987....Let's Elope
(NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
(NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
(NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
(NZ)
1990....Snap
(NZ)
|
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
(NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline
(NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
(NZ)
1997....Unwordly
|
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
(NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
|
2003....Tuesday Joy
(NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka
|
|
Tontonan if you do not mind as people nominate mares from the past if you could add them in the year of their birth it would be greatly appreciated ?
Also I will leave it up to you to delete mares as you see fit.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 3:27pm
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I'll keep an eye on it but it is very easy to simply copy the table from any post, paste it into a full message box, and edit it directly.
As for the 'why 100 ?' ...I have found when making these sorts of lists to avoid working to a number. A few years ago (quite a few now) there were quite a few Top 100 horses of the 20th century lists getting about and I collected and compared them. The degree of consensus diminished the longer the list was. I mean between three different lists there was consensus on 7 or 8 of the top 10, 14 or 15 of the Top 20 and about 19 or 20 of the Top 30 but the longer the lists the less consensus there was over the 'also rans'.
I avoid working to a number. If there are 13 race mares that are clearly the best of their kind why extend the list to 20 and pad it out with 7 inferiors for the sake of a round number ? I have wasted a lot of time doing that sort of thing and its not worth it.
My advice would be to hone the list down to the best of the best then be a hard arse about the rest. You might end up with 37 or 23 or some other ugly prime number but who cares. It is better than mulling over which of these 29 mares are going to fit into the last 10 spots of a round number... if you get my drift.
It is a bit like cataloging stars - go for the brightest first and build the list from there.
...that's not a bad analogy actually...
Magnitude 10 : Wakeful, Sunline, Makybe Diva, Black Caviar, Winx Magnitude 9 : Briseis, Let's Elope, Surround, Emancipation, Ethereal Magnitude 8 : La Carabine, Desert Gold, Cuddle, Tranquil Star, Flight, Wenona Girl, Dual Choice, Leilani, Maybe Mahal, Empire Rose, Horlicks, More Joyous Magnitude 7 : Gladsome, Carlita, Valicare, Wiggle, Light Fingers, Rose of Kingston, Tristarc, Mannerism, Dane Ripper, Private Steer, Alinghi, Miss Andretti Magnitude 6 : Florence, Auraria, Lady Wallace, Rivette, Rainbird, Evening Peal, Analie, Cap D'Antibes, Blue Denim, Bounding Away, Research, Hot Danish, Miss Finland, Atlantic Jewel, Jameka
etc, etc,.
But don't take this list to heart. I threw it together in 5 minutes and not even I agree with all of it. As a point of curiosity 50% of the mares on this list were drawn from before 1980 and 50% after 1980 (i.e. the same proportion as your list). I don't think that spread has as much to do with our prejudice for horses we have seen as it has to do with the prominence of mares both in the pattern and on the track since 1980.
A Grand Dam list is another excellent idea and building the list around family numbers would be a very interesting way of doing it. But that is for another thread...
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 6:44pm
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Very interesting thread. Perhaps a few others that warrant consideration include Tea Rose, Lowland & the NZ mares La Mer & Battle Eve.
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 6:48pm
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 3:44pm
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Frances Tressady who would not make the cut, She won both the Victorian Oaks and Derby in 1923 is the 9th dam of Lady Soma who is undefeated after 2 starts in the South Australian outback.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 6:43pm
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Not sure if I have mentioned her elsewhere but Bravery, whilst not one of our great race mares was a top class filly and is proving a wonderful matriarch.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: MJB
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 7:21pm
I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.
Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.
Great list though!
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Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 7:59pm
MJB wrote:
I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.
Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.
Great list though! |
And if you like Red Tracer you'd have to like Appearance too. Great rivalry between those 2, but Appearance usually came out on top.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 8:40pm
List updated1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline (NZ) 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda (NZ) 1886.....Cynisca (NZ) 1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform (NZ) | 1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist(NZ) 1910....Warstep (NZ) 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold (NZ) 1918....Furious 1920....Frances Tressady* 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle (NZ) | 1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1941....Tea Rose 1942....Soneri (NZ) 1946....Sweet Spray (NZ) 1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course 1952....Evening Peal | 1953....Yahabeebe (NZ) 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers (NZ) 1964....Lowland (NZ) 1966....Gay Poss (NZ) 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate (NZ) 1969....Analie (NZ) 1970....Leilani (NZ) 1970....Battle Eve (NZ)* 1969....Toltrice | 1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show* 1972....Denise's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround (NZ) 1975....My Blue Denim (NZ) 1975....La Mer (NZ)* 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation | 1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ) 1982....Empire Rose (NZ) 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks (NZ) 1983....Special
1984....Bravery* 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ) | 1987....Let's Elope (NZ) 1987....Mannerism1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak (NZ) 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance (NZ) 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic (NZ) 1990....Snap (NZ) | 1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ) 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline (NZ) 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal (NZ) 1997....Unwordly | 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva (GB) 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange (NZ) 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ) | 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous (NZ) 2007....Pinker Pinker 2007....Red Tracer* 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Appearance* 2008....Silent Achiever (NZ) 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka |
* indicates additions to the original list |
Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 8:59pm
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Reagardless what has since happened to the trainer, Mosheen simply has to be there. Beat the colts in both the Australian and Randwick Guineas. And won an Oaks by 9L.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 9:18pm
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I will top up the list with Mosheen (2008) at a later date.
If she goes in though, so must Shamrocker (NZ) (2007).
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Posted By: MJB
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 12:24pm
stayer wrote:
MJB wrote:
I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.
Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.
Great list though! |
And if you like Red Tracer you'd have to like Appearance too. Great rivalry between those 2, but Appearance usually came out on top. |
How did l forget Appearance! Good call.
Guy Walter was a master trainer, but he was especially good at training mares. He was taken from us too soon.
Streama was another one of his good ones but she probably sits just outside the top 100.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 4:48pm
Another update1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline (NZ) 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda (NZ) 1886.....Cynisca (NZ) 1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell | 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist(NZ) 1910....Warstep (NZ) 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold (NZ) 1918....Furious 1920....Frances Tressady* 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily* 1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb | 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1941....Tea Rose 1942....Soneri (NZ) 1946....Sweet Spray (NZ) 1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe (NZ) 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl
| 1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)* 1958....Indian Summer* 1961....Light Fingers (NZ) 1963....Storm Queen* 1964....Lowland (NZ) 1966....Gay Poss (NZ) 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate (NZ) 1969....Analie (NZ) 1970....Leilani (NZ) 1970....Battle Eve (NZ)* 1969....Toltrice
| 1971....Cap D'Antibes1971....Leica Show* 1972....Denise's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround (NZ) 1975....My Blue Denim (NZ) 1975....La Mer (NZ)* 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation | 1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ) 1982....Empire Rose (NZ) 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks (NZ) 1983....Special
1984....Bravery* 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ) | 1987....Let's Elope (NZ) 1987....Mannerism1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak (NZ) 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance (NZ) 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic (NZ) 1990....Snap (NZ) 1991....Circles Of Gold | 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ) 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline (NZ) 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal (NZ) 1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva (GB) | 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange (NZ) 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar | 2006....More Joyous (NZ) 2007....Pinker Pinker 2007....Red Tracer* 2007....Shamrocker (NZ)* 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Appearance* 2008....Silent Achiever (NZ) 2008....Mosheen* 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka |
* indicates additions to the original list
Some thoughts...
We are up to 115 and already the boundary between a champion, top class and very good filly/mare is getting very blurred.
Personally I do not get carried away about fillies and mares who only excel against fillies and mares. Appearance was a top class race mare, no doubt, but her three Group 1's were against her own sex. There are several others on the list who are in a similar boat.
Obviously it is not the mares fault that her connections set her to beat her own kind rather than take on the boys. It is the most sensible way to race such a mare these days. But back in the day when owners did not have the luxury of a glut of high staked, high graded races restricted to females they had no option than to run against the males. There basically wasn't a distaff stakes race in Australia prior to the Winfield Classic (Coolmore Stakes) in 1980. None at all.
That maybe the reason why the list is so skewed to 'modern times'.
Another issue is the modern tendency to turn our noses up at historical racing, and apply a much tougher standard to including the 'ancients' on our list. Take Barbelle for example, own sister to The Barb, winner of the Doncaster Handicap and the Sydney Cup and three editions of the VRC Flying Stakes. Or Zoe, who won two Australian Champion Sweepstakes and ran second in controversial circumstances in a third. They don't even make the list !
'Oh but racing was weak in those days' they say. Yeah, 3 miles with 10 stone and the jockey sitting in the middle of her back, shod in iron on tracks that were little better than cow paddocks, . Real weak. But then people have this daft idea that some how, if only in their imagination, these historical horses can be compared to the moderns on the race tracks of their minds and there could be divined a winner and a loser ... in their dreams.
The first lesson when considering horses across the ages is that everything is relative to the times in which the horses raced. Same goes for humans. Usain Bolt is 7 metres faster over 100m than Jesse Owens by the clock - do you really believe Jesse was a 7m inferior athlete to Usain or does Usain get a 7m push by virtue of the 80 years between them ? Same goes for horses. The magnitude of their achievements needs to be measured against the metric of their own time.
But what am I saying. This list doesn't need anymore nominations let alone from the 19th century. What it needs is trimming.... and for the mares who only raced in New Zealand to be taken off it.  . |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:28pm
I would not say the best horses of yesteryear were weak but it is only fair to assumptionise that depth would have been less.
I would prefer we expand - define and than refine 😊
I am happy for you or anybody to add as many old time mares worthy of debate.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:45pm
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What is the point of a distaff, a race restricted to mares, that excludes entires and geldings, if it isn't to restrict the depth of the competition ?
And what is the point of paying to 10th if it isn't to subsidize those horses that are not competitive ?
Or of a handicap ratings system that restricts races to horses with a similar lack of ability so that there is a race for everybody to win ?
The old girls on this list raced when stakes were lean and they only paid to second. There were no socialist ratings restricted races. No distaffs either. They either had aptitude to race against the boys or they were given something else to do (as there were many uses for a horse in those days).
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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 7:45pm
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The one I’m struggling with is Unworldly. Surely there on “ potential”. Record is nowhere near what it should to be on this list.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 10:30pm
JudgeHolden wrote:
The one I’m struggling with is Unworldly. Surely there on “ potential”. Record is nowhere near what it should to be on this list. |
We could probably say the same of Angst, and even fillies like Indian Summer and Nizam's Ring. Their form was almost entirely in age and sex restricted company and only for a campaign or two. Undoubtedly talented but some of 'greatest' females to race in Australia ????
Potentially I suppose...
Here are a few from the old days...
PETREA : 1876 (King of the Ring - Mischief) a full sister to First King, considered by some to be the best horse before Carbine. Her ½ sister Maid Of All Work (by King Alfred) was also extra smart winning the Maribyrnong Plate, Ascot Vale Stakes, VRC Sires Produce and the VRC Oaks. 17 starts for 7 wins.
Principal wins
At 2 years 1879 VRC Sires' Produce Stakes 7f 1879 VRC Ascot Vale Stakes 6f At 3 years 1879 VRC The Oaks Stakes 12f 1880 AJC St Leger Stakes 14f 1880 AJC Cumberland Stakes 16f 1880 AJC Sydney Cup 16f
also second in the 1880 Australian Cup and 1880 AJC PLate (beaten a length in record time by Caspian).
Owned by WJ Clarke until after the Australian Cup when he sold the filly to William Long after taking offence when accused in the press of the filly not running 'the full rupee' at the Flemington meeting. Long also owned Grand Flaneur.
ZOE : 1850 (Sir Hercules - Flora McIvor). Bred in NSW but sold, along with her sire, dam and others to the father of the NZ turf Henry Redwood who raced her until she was 7YO before coming to Sydney to win the Queens Plate. Redwood then sold her to Honest John Tait. As a 9YO under 10.1 she finished second to the '3YO' Flying Buck with 6.8 in the first Australian Champion Sweepstakes. The result was controversial because the convention of 1 August as the birthday of thoroughbreds had yet to be established and it was suspected that the Buck was bred to northern time and had a 6 month advantage under theweights. Zoe was conceding him22kg.
Zoe went on to win the 2nd Australian Champion Sweepstakes at Randwick (the Buck finished nowhere) and then traveled to Ipswich to win the 3rd Australian Champion Sweepstakes as a 10 year old.
BARBELLE 1865 (Sir Hercules - Fair Ellen) Sister to The Barb Another of John Tait's Barbelle could be hard to catch but in a time when class mares were rare she was the exception.
Principal Wins
1868 AJC Mares Produce Stakes 1870 AJC Doncaster Hcp 1870 AJC Sydney Cup 1870 VRC Flying Stakes (7f) 1871 VRC Flying Stakes (7f) 1872 VRC Flying Stakes (7f)
Note : The Flying Stakes was renamed the Linlithgow in 1908. It was the best short course WFA race in Melbourne.
WILARI 1911 (Wallace - Murna) Herbert Power's filly. Beat Lady Wallace's son Cisco and Jacamar (full brother to Poseidon) for the Derby
Principal wins
1911 VRC Sires Produce 1911 VRC Victoria Derby 1911 VRC Oaks 1911 VRC St Leger |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 10:39am
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Tontonan the Hilda in the above list I presume is the daughter of Musket and bred in 1885 not 1870. That one was an Australian filly by Yattendon who didn't win anything of note.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 10:42am
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Also I thinks she is well behind another New Zealand filly not on the list - Passive dam of Sobig. Passive won the GN Derby, NZ Derby, Oaks, Wellington Guineas, Desert Gold S, Gloaming S, NZ St Leger and Sires' Produce S. And then produced an outstanding son. One impressive mare.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 10:57am
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Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc. Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H. Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly! The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields.
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Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:16pm
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Interesting stat would be what percentage of the 100 very best mares produced a horse equal or better than herself.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 1:00pm
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An awful lot didn't even have foals.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 1:26pm
furious wrote:
Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc. Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H. Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly! The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields.<div id="UMS_TOOLTIP" style=": ; cursor: pointer; : 2147483647; : transparent; top: -100000px; left: -100000px;"> |
She's there furious, can't forget her, top class.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 1:51pm
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Well spotted Furious.
I think djebel took the list from Peter Pring's book Analysis of Champion Racehorses (although Pring gives the correct year of birth for Musket's Hilda). Personally I think those NZ mares who did not race in Australia should be taken off the list, especially if we are to make the cut at 100.
I added Storm Queen in my last update yesterday. Again, I think the oversight was because she didn't meet Pring's criteria for Analysis of Champion Racehorses. That book was published in 1977 so everything after 1977 has been added by djebel.
As for Bart, he was a student of thoroughbred families and he had his favourites.
I have a list of 476 of Australia's greatest racehorses that are sorted by family number and 7 of the 476 come from family 5-d. And of those 7 no less than 5 were trained by Bart Cummings - Storm Queen, Taj Rossi, Think Big, Tontonan and Saintly. The other two not trained by Bart were Bobadil and Prince Foote who were a bit before his time.
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline (NZ) 1873.....Briseis 1885.....Hilda (NZ) 1886.....Cynisca (NZ) 1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell | 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist(NZ) 1910....Warstep (NZ) 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold (NZ) 1918....Furious 1920....Frances Tressady* 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily* 1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb | 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1941....Tea Rose 1942....Soneri (NZ) 1946....Sweet Spray (NZ) 1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe (NZ) 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl
| 1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)* 1958....Indian Summer* 1961....Light Fingers (NZ) 1963....Storm Queen* 1964....Lowland (NZ) 1966....Gay Poss (NZ) 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate (NZ) 1969....Analie (NZ) 1970....Leilani (NZ) 1970....Battle Eve (NZ)* 1969....Toltrice
| 1971....Cap D'Antibes1971....Leica Show* 1972....Denise's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround (NZ) 1975....My Blue Denim (NZ) 1975....La Mer (NZ)* 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation | 1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ) 1982....Empire Rose (NZ) 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks (NZ) 1983....Special
1984....Bravery* 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ) | 1987....Let's Elope (NZ) 1987....Mannerism1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak (NZ) 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance (NZ) 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic (NZ) 1990....Snap (NZ) 1991....Circles Of Gold | 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ) 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline (NZ) 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal (NZ) 1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva (GB) | 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange (NZ) 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar | 2006....More Joyous (NZ) 2007....Pinker Pinker 2007....Red Tracer* 2007....Shamrocker (NZ)* 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Appearance* 2008....Silent Achiever (NZ) 2008....Mosheen* 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka
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Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 4:15pm
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Here's a few other mares who did well against the males
Quiver (1891)
1895 Randwick Plate
1895 AJC Spring Stakes
1896 Champion Stakes (=1st)
Marvel Loch (1900)
1903 AJC Metropolitan
1904 Railway Stakes (George Ryder Stakes)
1905 VATC Eclipse Stakes (Herbert Power)
1905 Rawson Stakes (Ranvet)
1905 Caulfield Cup
1906 Rawson Stakes
Traquette (1911)
1913 Maribyrnong Plate
1915 Memsie Stakes
1915 Caulfield Stakes
1915 Melbourne Stakes (L.K.S. Mackinnon Stakes)
1915 Linlithgow Stakes
1915 C.M. Lloyd Stakes
Ripa (1960)
1963 Craven A Stakes (VRC Sprint Classic)
1963 Sandown Guineas
1964 Invitation Stakes (Rupert Clark)
1965 Newmarket
1965 C.M. Lloyd Stakes
1965 Toorak Handicap
Citius (1962) (she was perhaps Star Kingdom’s best daughter)
1965 VRC Sires’ Produce
1966 Lightning Stakes
1966 Oakleigh Plate
1966 Doncaster
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 5:23pm
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I'd pay all those, although Quiver could be a bit iffy.
I have done these sort of exercises many times before and these lists get out of hand. The more names we add the more names suggest themselves. I sat down to put together a site containing the 100 greatest racehorses ... and I end up with 347 ... and I have got past 1980 ! By the time I am done I will have 500 and still be stressing about those that have been left out.
Hard criteria is probably the answer ... or brutal editing.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 5:30pm
Just so we are reminded of the benchmarks I have made the Hall of fame mares bold
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline (NZ) 1873.....Briseis 1885.....Hilda (NZ) 1886.....Cynisca (NZ) 1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ) 1891....Quiver
1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell 1900....Marvel Loch
| 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist(NZ) 1910....Warstep (NZ) 1911....Carlita 1911....Tarquette 1912....Desert Gold (NZ) 1918....Furious 1920....Frances Tressady* 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily* 1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette ntb | 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1941....Tea Rose 1942....Soneri (NZ) 1946....Sweet Spray (NZ) 1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe (NZ) 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)* | 1958....Indian Summer* 1960....Ripa 1961....Light Fingers (NZ) 1961....Citius 1963....Storm Queen* 1964....Lowland (NZ) 1966....Gay Poss (NZ) 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate (NZ) 1969....Analie (NZ) 1970....Leilani (NZ) 1970....Battle Eve (NZ)* 1969....Toltrice
| 1971....Cap D'Antibes1971....Leica Show* 1972....Denise's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround (NZ) 1975....My Blue Denim (NZ) 1975....La Mer (NZ)* 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation | 1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ) 1982....Empire Rose (NZ) 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks (NZ) 1983....Special
1984....Bravery* 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ) | 1987....Let's Elope (NZ) 1987....Mannerism1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak (NZ) 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance (NZ) 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic (NZ) 1990....Snap (NZ) 1991....Circles Of Gold | 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ) 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline (NZ) 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal (NZ) 1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva (GB) | 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange (NZ) 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar | 2006....More Joyous (NZ) 2007....Pinker Pinker 2007....Red Tracer* 2007....Shamrocker (NZ)* 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Appearance* 2008....Silent Achiever (NZ) 2008....Mosheen* 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka
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Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 5:34pm
furious wrote:
Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc. Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H. Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly! The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields. |
Thanks Furious.
And yes, Tontonan did suggest Storm Queen. The majority of the races listed below are now Group 1's following the fundamental change in the grading of stakes races quite some years ago now.
| https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=year" rel="nofollow - Year | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=name&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Race | Grade | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=winner&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Winner | Trainer | Winner Fam. | Dist. | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=second&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - 2nd | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=third&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - 3rd | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=stakes&search_bar=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=time&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Time | Comment | | 1967 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1223" rel="nofollow - LIGHTNING STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN  | | 5-d | 5 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=REDCAP&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - REDCAP | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MARMION3&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - MARMION3 | 0:59.80 | | | 1967 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=879" rel="nofollow - MVRC WILLIAM REID STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MARMION3&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - MARMION3 | | C1 | 6 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=TOBIN+BRONZE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - TOBIN BRONZE  | 1:12.40 | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1986" rel="nofollow - VATC MERSON COOPER STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 6 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=PRINCE+MAX&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - PRINCE MAX | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CANDY+FLOSS2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CANDY FLOSS2 | 1:13.40 | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3287" rel="nofollow - SAJC BREEDERS STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 6 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3240" rel="nofollow - VRC EDWARD MANIFOLD STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 8 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CENDRILLON4&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CENDRILLON4 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1258" rel="nofollow - VRC SIRES PRODUCE STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 7 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VERY+MERRY&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - VERY MERRY | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1101" rel="nofollow - STC GOLDEN SLIPPER STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 6 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ACADEMY+STAR2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - ACADEMY STAR2 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VERY+MERRY&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - VERY MERRY | 1:12.9 | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3666" rel="nofollow - VATC ONE THOUSAND GUINEAS | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CENDRILLON4&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CENDRILLON4 | | 5-c | 8 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=FARMERS+DAUGHTER2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - FARMERS DAUGHTER2 | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1232" rel="nofollow - VRC GEORGE ADAMS | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 8 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=WOAMBRA&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - WOAMBRA | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=HEROIC+STONE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - HEROIC STONE | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1256" rel="nofollow - CHAMPAGNE STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 6 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CANDY+FLOSS2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CANDY FLOSS2 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ACADEMY+STAR2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - ACADEMY STAR2 | 1:10.0 | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1246" rel="nofollow - VATC CAULFIELD GUINEAS | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 8 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | | | | 1966 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3237" rel="nofollow - MVRC MOONEE VALLEY STAKES | | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN | | 5-d | 8 F | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=PHARAON5&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - PHARAON5 | https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - | | |
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 9:28pm
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I have a collection of racehorse records on my blog that tallies 346 and
more off line that brings the tally to 475. Of the 475 there are 68
females (14.3%) and of those only 8 are not on this list.
*Acrasia : My collection contains every Melbourne Cup winner and
she gets the nod as the first race mare to win the Cup. Fillies had won
but never a mare. No champion though a solid performer on the racetrack.
*Alice Hawthorn (1849): An ancient, the best horse in Victoria during
the 1850's, but as NSW's Veno proved in 1857, nowhere near the best horse in the
colonies. I include her as a historical curiousity.
Canny Lass (1982): She won
MVRC William Reid S G1, VATC Marlboro Cup G1,Toorak Handicap G1 and later
distinguished herself as a very good broodmare.
Claudette
(1937) : She is a bit of a Melbourne legend. She improved out of sight in
1943 to win the Easter Cup before winning the Grand National Hurdle when it was
a good race. She returned in the Spring to win the Williamstown Cup (when
it was a very good race), and the following spring, won the Herbert Power
Handicap. A crowd favorite rather than a champion.
Merlene
(1993) : A brilliant juvenile, winner of 5 of her six starts, and carries
on the old C2 colonial family
Shaybisc
(1977) : Although she only won one Group 1 race (the AJC Sires) she beat the
boys consistently in lesser events and was a multiple blacktype producer.
*Sister
Olive (1918) : She only won 2 of her 37 starts, her debut in the Maribyrnong
Trial Stakes and, as a 3YO filly, the Melbourne Cup. She was out of a half
sister to Comedy King and is the fourth dam of Tobin Bronze and the fifth dam of
Galena Boy. Not a champion but an important filly in the history of the
Australian turf.
Yir Tiz
(1977) : Top flight NZ mare, winner of 21 of her 34 starts. Never
unplaced. Fabulous record in NZ but her best (only ?) win in Australia was the
Newcastle Newmarket although she was runner up to Watney in the Stradbroke.
Dam of the champion NZ sprinter Mr.Tiz and later sent to Japan.
* - record on blog
Out of that lot I would probably only consider Canny Lass to be suitable for
the Greatest Female Racehorses list. https://horsesoftheyears.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - https://horsesoftheyears.blogspot.com/
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Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 10:30pm
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Another good sprinting mare from the late 60s was the Victorian Begonia Belle (1964)
1967 VATC One Thousand Guineas, 1967 Sandown Guineas 1968 VRC Lighting Stakes 1969 Alister Clark Stakes 1969 Newmarket Handicap
She had 13 wins from 35 starts but would only be at the fringes of the top 100.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 11:05pm
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By the time we start pruning this list of some of its fat Begonia Belle might be required yet.
She is just the sort of mare who would be acclaimed as a champion if she had the luxury of all those mares races that we have today. Instead she did it the hard way in open company and her record is very impressive to the Autumn of her 3YO season before she makes an underwhelming trip to Queensland.
Back in Melbourne in the Spring as a 4YO she is honest enough but in the Autumn, just as it seems her form has moderated, she unleashes with narrow defeat on a heavy track in the Oakleigh Plate then wins the Newmarket in record time and romps home over a mile in the Alister Clark Stakes to close out her career.
I think she is a legitimate candidate.
Another that has been overlooked is Ortensia. Overshadowed by the great Black Caviar (they only actually met once, in the VRC Sprint Classic and BC beat her third by more than 6 lengths) Ortensia has an exceptionally good international record winning Group 1 races in Australia, Dubai and England.
Principal wins
2011 WATC Winterbottom Stakes AUS-G1 1200m
2012 Al Quoz Sprint UAE-G1 1000m
2012 Nunthorpe Stakes GB-G1 1000m
2012 King George Stakes GB-G2 1000m
2009 QTC Cup AUS-G2 1300m
2009 WATC Winterbottom Stakes AUS-G2 1200m
2008 MRC Thousand Guineas Prelude AUS-G3 1400m
2010 AJC Galaxy AUS-G1 1100m (But then disqualified)
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 2:43pm
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I would like to apply a criteria excluding fillies and mares from the list that have not raced in Australia. I am more than happy to generate a separate list for New Zealand fillies and mares but it will make life a hell of a lot easier if we leave those off who never made the trip across the Tasman.
I would also take off those fillies and mares that raced in Australia but did not win a stakes races.
That would remove the following 11 from the list -
Hilda (NZ) Cynisca (NZ) Lady Zetland (NZ) Warstep (NZ) Silver Scorn (NZ)
Yahabeebe (NZ) Soneri (NZ) Sea Spray (NZ) Show Gate (NZ) Battle Eve (NZ)
Snap (NZ)
There are some champions there but I don't feel confident of assessing the fillies and mares of New Zealand or assessing the quality of their NZ records.
If the criteria was extended to exclude fillies and mares who have not won a Group 1 (or equivalent) race in Australia then Seachange (NZ) La Mer (NZ) wouldn't make the cut either.
Cruciform would stay because although it is debatable whether the AJC Spring Stakes was a Group 1 equivalent race she did beat Wakeful in winning it. Tycoon Lil (NZ) hangs by a thread owing to her win in the Canterbury Guineas.
I would replace them with these :
Begonia Belle, Canny Lass, Champagne (NZ), Jezabeel (NZ), Ortensia and Delicacy
And the list would look like this ....
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1850....Zoe*
1865....Barbelle*
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1876....Petrea*
1891....Quiver*
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1900....Marvel Loch*
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1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1911....Carlita
1911....Tarquette*
1911....Wilari
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1933....Rivette ntb
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1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
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1960....Ripa*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1961....Citius*
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1964....Begonia Belle*
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
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1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
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1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1982....Canny Lass*
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
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1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1992....Jezabeel*
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1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1994....Champagne (NZ)*
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
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1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2005....Ortensia*
2006....Black Caviar
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2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2011....Delicacy*
2012....English
2012....Jameka
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119 entries If anyone objects lodge a protest by all means. Otherwise I think we just about have the possibilities covered and can move on to deciding which 19 can be cut from the list to bring it back to 100.
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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 3:12pm
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I'm glad you have included Lady Sybil Tontonan, another fav. fwiw.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 4:00pm
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It may be that Lady Sybil was simply a superior wet tracker, but there is a bit more to her than that.
She famous for one campaign, in the Spring of 1960 when she won 7 of 8 starts...
WON VATC Elsternwick Stakes (Slow) x 2½ lengths
WON MRC Berwick Handicap (Slow) x 6 lengths
WON MVRC Moonee Valley Stakes (Slow) neck to Samson
WON VRC Edward Manifold Stakes (Heavy) x 10 lengths
WON VATC Caulfield Guineas (Heavy) x 3 lengths to Sky High 3rd VATC Thousand Guineas (Good) Head x 2 lengths Wenona Girl 1st; Impulsive 3rd (dam of Reckless)
WON VRC Oaks Stakes (Heavy) x 2 lengths
WON VATC Sandown Guineas (Slow) x neck
At that point she had 18 starts for 9 wins 3 seconds and 1 third and the scalps of a couple of Hall of Famers to her credit. But then she totally lost form and did not win again in a further 13 starts and mid way through her 4YO season she was bought by Nelson Bunker hunt and exported to the USA.
She proved an excellent broodmare producing Amerigo Lady who was a multiple Graded stakes winner in the USA including the Gr.1 Firenze Hcp (defeating Shuvee no less) and the Hollywood Oaks.
She also produced Brigand who returned to Australia as a sire and produced Cole Diesel and River Rough. |
Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 9:43pm
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Good idea with the criteria for the elimination of those New Zealanders, Tontonan. It'll be harder to get consensus on the final 100 though.
For the sake of completeness, one New Zealander which could be considered is the Summertime mare, Stellar Belle (1963), which raced here as Star Belle.
She was the best NZ 3yo of her season with the Derbies/St Leger plus the Oaks, although she was only 3rd behind Farmer's Daughter in the 1966 VRC Oaks and unplaced when Cendrillon upset 3/1 on Storm Queen in the 1000 Guineas.
She won 18 races including the following (4 current G1s)
1966 Wakeful Stakes
1966 ARC Great Northern Derby
1966 CJC NZ Oaks
1966 ARC Great Northern Guineas
1966 WRC Desert Gold Stakes
1966 ARC Ladies Mile
1967 Wellington Derby
1967 Craiglee Stakes
1967 Liston Stakes
1967 Turnbull Stakes |
Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 1:10pm
In the Caulfield Cup of 1996 the runs of Arctic Scent (1992) and Saleous (1992) were better than that of Circles Of Gold (1991).
Arctic Scent won the race and Saleous, an on pacer, missed the start badly and made up many many lengths to finish sixth.
At their next start in the Mackinnon, Saleous beat home both Circles Of Gold and Arctic Scent.
A case could be made that both Saleous and Arctic Scent have equal or even superior records to Circles Of Gold.
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Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 12:29am
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I agree. Circles of Gold is one of the first I would take off. She only won 1 Group 1 race and that was age and sex restricted. I think she was originally included (along with a few others) because djebel was in two minds regarding whether the mares breeding record was relevant.
I'd make the same argument regarding Bravery and Toltrice and Gay Poss : Their records as broodmares has been influential in their selection.
The only criteria we had was the thread title
Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses |
If it had of been 'greatest Thoroughbred fillies and mares' then their breeding record would matter, but as it is 'greatest female racehorses' the breeding record doesn't matter at all.
As 100 is the magic number we need to weed 17 from the current list...
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1850....Zoe*
1865....Barbelle*
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1876....Petrea*
1891....Quiver*
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1900....Marvel Loch*
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1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1911....Carlita
1911....Tarquette*
1911....Wilari
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1933....Rivette ntb
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1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
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1960....Ripa*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1961....Citius*
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1964....Begonia Belle*
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
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1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
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1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1982....Canny Lass*
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
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1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1992....Jezabeel*
1993....Dane Ripper
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1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1994....Champagne (NZ)*
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
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2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2005....Ortensia*
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
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2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2011....Delicacy*
2012....English
2012....Jameka
58
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Hall of Famers in Bold
* = addition to original list
Removed from original list :
Hilda (NZ) Cynisca (NZ) Lady Zetland (NZ) Warstep (NZ) Silver Scorn (NZ) Yahabeebe (NZ) Soneri (NZ) Sea Spray (NZ) Show Gate (NZ) Battle Eve (NZ) Snap (NZ)
Reason : NZ mares who either never started in Australia or never won a stakes race in Australia
La Mer (NZ) and Seachange (NZ) and Stellar Belle (NZ)
Reason : Never won a Group 1 race (or equivalent) in Australia ______________________________________________________________________
Following Warri Symbol's lead, if you have any suggestions as to which 17 horses should be cut from the list please post them...
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Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 7:08pm
No spot for Forensics (2004)?
3x Gr1
3x Gr2
3x Gr3
Slipper winner.
Myer Stakes winner.
Queen Of The Turf winner.
Golden Rose (G2) winner.
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Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 7:35pm
Electronic (1990) is lucky to be there.
2x Gr1
A Metropolitan and a weak Ranvet where just two of the eight horse field had previously won a Group One event.
Both her Group Ones being against the blokes is a plus, to be fair.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 7:46pm
Joanne, I am not sure she deserves to be dropped.
If we are going to be tough we have to look at a horses form not just the fact she won big name races.
There will be some mares who ran into top class horses and were beaten whilst other mares have run in diabolical eras.
When Joanne was the top female sprinter the only group 1 sprint race in Sydney was a handicap, The Galaxy.
-------------
reductio ad absurdum
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