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Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses

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Forum Name: Historical
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URL: http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=62389
Printed Date: 15 Dec 2018 at 2:08pm
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Topic: Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses
Posted By: djebel
Subject: Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:54pm
In chronological order
 

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome

1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn

1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle

1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy

1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston

1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope

1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold

1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly

1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland

2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka









-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.




Replies:
Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:22pm
Nice list.

I think Melbourne Cup winning filly Auraria deserves to be there though and I would have given some thought to True Course too, but these things go on forever. 

Now, put them in order of merit Big smile




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

Nice list.

I think Melbourne Cup winning filly Auraria deserves to be there though and I would have given some thought to True Course too, but these things go on forever. 

Now, put them in order of merit Big smile



Analysis of Champion Racehorses by Peter Pring and The Thoroughbred Press published 1977, arrived this am and inspired this list, I had always wanted to do a list of mares.

I wonder why Auraria was not included in this book. All her winning was done 1895, I wonder if that counted against her ?


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:39pm
Before we go Tontonan , there are 3 I'm glad to see on your list , 2 picked themselves being Wiggle and Wenona Girl, but the third Yahabeebe I was delighted to see , had a soft spot for her in my very young days , great list btw.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:39pm
Both mares records would get them in in front of some of the later mares I have included.




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:51pm
In chronological order
 

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform

1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle

1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1847....True Course
1952....Evening Peal

1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice

1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation

1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza

1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic

1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal

1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish

2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

I have eliminated Isca, her career was very brilliant but was just as brief as it was brilliant. Joanne if I am not mistaken is the only non group 1 winner on the list but she was one of the best sprinters I have seen. 

This leaves the list at 101 Embarrassed 

Do not hesitate to nominate fillies and mares I have missed or you believe deserves recognition. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:54pm
Analie?


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Analie?

You do not believe she should be there ?




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:57pm
No , sorry I didn't see her on the list.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:00pm
Unworldly? Surely a mare like Mosheen goes in ahead of her.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:04pm
Maybe a few borderline cases djebel, Begonia Belle, Citius, Indian Summer, Lady Sybil.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:04pm
Empire Rose?

-------------


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Empire Rose?

That was a poor miss by me considering she is my timeline.  Thumbs Up


Mosheen could possibly be there in front of others but Unwordly did live up to her name and I could not drop her for Mosheen...




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:11pm
One other who certainly should be there is Storm Queen.




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

In chronological order
 

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform

1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle

1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1847....True Course
1952....Evening Peal

1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice

1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation

1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc
1982....Empire Rose
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
11


1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic

1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal

1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish

2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

I have eliminated Isca, her career was very brilliant but was just as brief as it was brilliant. Joanne if I am not mistaken is the only non group 1 winner on the list but she was one of the best sprinters I have seen. 

This leaves the list at 102 Embarrassed 

Do not hesitate to nominate fillies and mares I have missed or you believe deserves recognition. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

[QUOTE=Passing Through]Mosheen could possibly be there in front of others but Unwordly did live up to her name and I could not drop her for Mosheen...

Right or wrong there'll possibly be a cloud over Mosheen given her trainer's behavior during her time-line.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Maybe a few borderline cases djebel, Begonia Belle, Citius, Indian Summer, Lady Sybil.

Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

One other who certainly should be there is Storm Queen.



I wonder why they did not make the cut for THE BOOK ?

I really must read the introduction. Smile Perhaps he explains what criteria he used. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:42pm
Pring does outline his criteria in his introduction and it explains most of his omissions.   Too detailed to reproduce here.  

One more I would consider would be Waltzing Lily, an excellent short courser from the early 1930's - but don't ask me who to leave out if you want to keep the list to 100. 

An interesting sidelight is that off the 100 race mares listed 3 produced Melbourne Cup winners - Wakeful, Horlicks and Rose of Kingston (which is pretty good given that the mares on the list are not exclusively staying types).


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:48pm
Just for info:

True Course - 9 Principal wins
Storm Queen - 10 Principal wins


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Pring does outline his criteria in his introduction and it explains most of his omissions.   Too detailed to reproduce here.  </span><div style="line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.8px;">One more I would consider would be Waltzing Lily, an excellent short courser from the early 1930's - but don't ask me who to leave out if you want to keep the list to 100. <div style="line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.8px;">An interesting sidelight is that off the 100 race mares listed 3 produced Melbourne Cup winners - Wakeful, Horlicks and Rose of Kingston (which is pretty good given that the mares on the list are not exclusively staying types).


He started off with horses who won greater than 50% of their races, he also wanted them to have at least one major handicap carrying greater than WFA and worked from there.



-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 7:22pm
Alternatively Pring allowed for 

-- horses that had run a national time record or a race record in a principal race, 

-- that the horse should have performed at the championship level for at least 3 campaigns, 

-- and they had 20 starts or more.

-- and won a principal race in Melbourne or Sydney, Auckland or Wellington. 

He also admits he stretched his guidelines to include horses that didn't meet them but he regarded worthy.  Even then he regrets not having been able to find space for NTB's like Aquanita and horses like Gothic.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:38am
It might be easier on the scrolling wheels if we squeeze them into a table like this....

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
 
1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat OfThe Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:40am
Or even better...

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
 
1981....Tristarc
1982....Heat OfThe Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1986....Joanne
1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

Or even better...

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda
1886.....Cynisca
1887.....Lady Zetland
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform
1900....Gladsome
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist
1910....Warstep
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle
1929....Silver Scorn
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri
1946....Sweet Spray
1946....Chicquita
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers
1966....Gay Poss
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate
1969....Analie
1970....Leilani
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denice's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround
1975....My Blue Denim
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
1980....Abit Leica
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
 
1981....Tristarc
1982....Empire Rose
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm
1986....Courtza
1987....Let's Elope
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic
1990....Snap
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Isca
1995....Sunline
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous 
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

Outstanding as usual Tontonan.


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:23pm
It would also be interesting to do the same with broodmares - the greatest 100 Australasian Broodmares throughout time.  Interesting that some of the oldest mares on that list have female lines still producing stakes horses.  My namesake isn't one of them as she didn't have any foals.  From one extreme to the next.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

It would also be interesting to do the same with broodmares - the greatest 100 Australasian Broodmares throughout time.  Interesting that some of the oldest mares on that list have female lines still producing stakes horses.  My namesake isn't one of them as she didn't have any foals.  From one extreme to the next.

Where would you start ?




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:20pm
The producers of more that three G1 winners and move up or down as the case may be.  You could put in mares who only produced stakes winners etc.  Or then you could add ones with only winning foals and most stakes winners etc.  Dams of Champions usually wouldn't make the list as Champions seem to be one offs.  Except of course with Octagonal's dam etc.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:23pm
Sunbride might be there furious?


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:25pm
I was going to look into it from a Matriarchs point of view or taproot much like I understand Bruce Lowe was about ?




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:29pm
Well you could do either.  Taproot mare line still producing today will find mares like Juliet, Eulogy, Manto etc and they would be on the other list also although Manto you'd have to take on race credit so maybe not.  She was well before the real G1 races started.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:30pm
Yes Sunbride would make the cut for sure.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Well you could do either.  Taproot mare line still producing today will find mares like Juliet, Eulogy, Manto etc and they would be on the other list also although Manto you'd have to take on race credit so maybe not.  She was well before the real G1 races started.

http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Manto_GB-65026/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Manto_GB-65026/2


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:16pm
Ever heard of Madowla a daughter of Trenton.   She had 6 stakeswinners of 14 stakes races including 

Glenculloch - GN Foals S, North Island Challenge S

Glenowlet - Dunedin Champagne S, CJC Champagne S, GN Foal S, Welleseley S

Madam Madcap - CJC Champagne S, Great Easter H, Jocky Club H

Masterpiece - CJC Derby, DJC McLean S

Quarryman - CJC Metropolitan H, Hawkes Bay Guineas, Wanganui Cup

then her daughters Kirriemuir (3 stakeswinners of 10 stakes races), Glenowlet (3 stakeswinner of 5 stakes races), Discipline (2 stakewinners of 5 stakes races) produced
 
Moorfowl - Wellesley S, Canteruby Welcom S, Wellington S

Royal Stag - Dunedin Cup McLean S, GN Derby, Dunedin Guineas

Wild Hind - Dunedin Guineas, Dunedin Champagne S, Jockey Club H

Brown Owl - Dunedin Champagne S, Oaks S

Nightwatch - Dunedin Champagne S, Champagne S

Owiscombe - CJC Champagne S

Adjutant - Champagne S, Jockey Club H, WRC Autumn H

Court Martial - CJC Oaks S

In Australia this female line produced Playboy (AJC Derby, St Leger, C B Fisher Plate, King's Plate, Hill S, Craven Plate, AJC Plate etc)

There are lots out there which people have totally forgotten



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:23pm
Or what about another daughter of Trenton in Lady Trenton who produced 4 stakeswinners of 20 stakesraces

Dividend - VRC Champion S (twice), Essendon S (twice), AJC St Leter, C B Fisher P, AJC Plate, Cumberland S etc

Lady Rylstone - VRC Oaks, AJC Champagne S

Lord Cardigan - Melbourne Cup, Sydney Cup, AJC Plate, Randwick Plate (twice)

Strata Florida - Caulfield Guineas

Then her daughers produced

Lord Nolan - Melbourne Cup, AJC St Leter S

Kingbier PARC CHristmas H, ARC City H

This line still thrives mostly through the decendants of Rainbird (Melbourne Cup)


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:25pm
Bonnie Rosette was to become the ancestress of Kaoru Star but she was pretty good in her day with

Bonnie Chiel - Toorak H, Eclipse S

Kinglike - Eclipse S, Caulfield Guineas

Mountain King - AJC Derby, VRC Derby, AJC All Aged S, VRC St Leger, AJC St Leger, Rawson S, Craven plate etc

Scottish King - VRC St Leger, St George S etc


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:29pm
Witty Maid had her foals win 43 stakes races

Comedy Prince - Adelaide Guineas, SA Sires' Produce S, Oaklands Plate, William Reid S etc

Comic Court - Melbourne Cup, Caulfield S, VRC Derby, William Reid S, Oaklands Plate, VRC St Leger S, C F Orr S, L K S Mackinnon S (twice), Alister Clark S, Ascot Vale S, Memsie S (twice), Turnbull S (thrice) etc etc etc

Gay Comedy - SA St Leger S, Auraria S, SA Oaks

St Comedy - Fulham Park Plate, Goodwood H, Adelaide Guineas, Ascot Vale S, Moonee Valley S etc


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Or what about another daughter of Trenton in Lady Trenton who produced 4 stakeswinners of 20 stakesraces

Dividend - VRC Champion S (twice), Essendon S (twice), AJC St Leter, C B Fisher P, AJC Plate, Cumberland S etc

Lady Rylstone - VRC Oaks, AJC Champagne S

Lord Cardigan - Melbourne Cup, Sydney Cup, AJC Plate, Randwick Plate (twice)

Strata Florida - Caulfield Guineas

Then her daughers produced

Lord Nolan - Melbourne Cup, AJC St Leter S

Kingbier PARC CHristmas H, ARC City H

This line still thrives mostly through the decendants of Rainbird (Melbourne Cup)

Ancestress of Seabrook this years Champagne Stakes winner. 

http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Lady_Trenton_AUS-413660/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Lady_Trenton_AUS-413660/2




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Witty Maid had her foals win 43 stakes races

Comedy Prince - Adelaide Guineas, SA Sires' Produce S, Oaklands Plate, William Reid S etc

Comic Court - Melbourne Cup, Caulfield S, VRC Derby, William Reid S, Oaklands Plate, VRC St Leger S, C F Orr S, L K S Mackinnon S (twice), Alister Clark S, Ascot Vale S, Memsie S (twice), Turnbull S (thrice) etc etc etc

Gay Comedy - SA St Leger S, Auraria S, SA Oaks

St Comedy - Fulham Park Plate, Goodwood H, Adelaide Guineas, Ascot Vale S, Moonee Valley S etc

Hangs to life just.........

Unnamed  
Highrail Danehill (AUS)
Bay 2000
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Parisianna
Bay 1996
Highest Honor
Grey 1983
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
High River
Bay 1978
Riverman
Hairbrush
1969
1970
10-a
10-c
Plessaya
Bay 1988
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Perlita
Bay 1972
Baldric
Pola Bella
1961
1965
13-c
4-n
Beldalou (AUS)
Bay 2008
Bel Esprit
Bay 1999
Royal Academy
Bay 1987
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Crimson Saint
Chestnut 1969
Crimson Satan
Bolero Rose
1959
1958
26>
8-c
Bespoken
Brown 1990
Vain
Chestnut 1966
Wilkes
Elated
1952
1957
13-c
A10
Vin d'Amour
Bay 1981
Adios
Gliteren
1970
1969
6-f
34>
Voodalou
Brown 1994
Voodoo Rhythm
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Obeah
Bay 1965
Cyane
Book of Verse
1959
1956
16-b
2-f
Comic Gamble
Brown 1977
Gay Gambler
Bay or brown 1969
Hail to Reason
Bug Brush
1958
1955
4-n
10-c
Dainty Lou
Brown 1958
Tesmic
Dainty Comedy
1947
1950
1-n
1-b
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x 5m,4m Natalma5m,5f x 5m


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:53pm
Unnamed  
Fiorente (IRE)
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Dark Tan (AUS)
Brown 2010
Statue of Liberty
Brown or black 2000
Storm Cat
Bay or brown 1983
Storm Bird
Bay 1978
Northern Dancer
South Ocean
1961
1967
2-d
4-j
Terlingua
Chestnut 1976
Secretariat
Crimson Saint
1970
1969
2-s
8-c
Charming Lassie
Bay or brown 1987
Seattle Slew
Bay or brown 1974
Bold Reasoning
My Charmer
1968
1969
1-k
13-c
Lassie Dear
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Gay Missile
1963
1967
1-s
3-l
Voodalou
Brown 1994
Voodoo Rhythm
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Obeah
Bay 1965
Cyane
Book of Verse
1959
1956
16-b
2-f
Comic Gamble
Brown 1977
Gay Gambler
Bay or brown 1969
Hail to Reason
Bug Brush
1958
1955
4-n
10-c
Dainty Lou
Brown 1958
Tesmic
Dainty Comedy
1947
1950
1-n
1-b
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x Northern Dancerx 5m,4m  


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 5:58pm
Millanta's Wish (AUS) 1977
 Aust.Id.: 35394brown stallionDate of Birth: 04/11/1977 
  
 by Knightly Manner (USA) 1961 
 from Irma La Douce (AUS) 1969 
 bred by Mr BT Chapman, NSW 
Named Stallion Produce in Australia
Click on column headings to sort by column
SeasonColourSexNameDam
1983b or brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=240230" rel="nofollow - Chellanta Merry Phantom (AUS) 1978
1983brcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=383939" rel="nofollow - Cordeaux Aquilegia (AUS) 1975
1983brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=320768" rel="nofollow - Kermington Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976
1984brcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=292743" rel="nofollow - Cadoobine Dancing Puppet (AUS) 1978
1984b or brcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=234447" rel="nofollow - Man Of Millanta Raymiss (AUS) 1975
1984chfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=324952" rel="nofollow - Monday's Child Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976
1984dunfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=108366" rel="nofollow - Princess Poco ntb Mallard's Poco (AUS) 1963 ntb
1984brcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=57790" rel="nofollow - Rocky Port Cherry Port (AUS) 1974
1984bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=346801" rel="nofollow - Thursday's Child Tia Mia (AUS) 1970
1985bcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=245971" rel="nofollow - Chasmat's Wish Tia Mia (AUS) 1970
1985bgelding https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=368556" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Boy Close Company (NZ) 1978
1985bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=11622" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Profile Golden Profile (AUS) 1973
1985b or brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=291276" rel="nofollow - Mrs. Knox Native Archon (AUS) 1977
1985bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=27361" rel="nofollow - Pie In The Sky Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975
1986bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=103051" rel="nofollow - Oak Alley Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975
1986chgelding https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=55741" rel="nofollow - Son Of Millanta Tia Mia (AUS) 1970
1986chfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=200382" rel="nofollow - Wish Of Beauty Penanna (AUS) 1977
1987chgelding https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=411778" rel="nofollow - Dabeca's Wish Dabeca (AUS) 1982
1987bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=404661" rel="nofollow - Lady Of Millanta Lady Archon (AUS) 1973
1987chcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=396403" rel="nofollow - Lord Of Millanta Minor Touch (AUS) 1980
1987brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=403074" rel="nofollow - Maid Of Millanta Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976
1987bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=404712" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Breeze Wild Breeze (AUS) 1982
1987bcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=397623" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Mill Castles In The Air (AUS) 1975
1987brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=412266" rel="nofollow - Natmill Native Archon (AUS) 1977
1989bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=458466" rel="nofollow - Get Set Duchess Rai (AUS) 1979
1989chfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=541551" rel="nofollow - Vienna Wish Red Glow (AUS) 1977
1989bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=470833" rel="nofollow - Wattlebloom ntb Navy Cut (AUS) 1982 ntb
1990brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=456655" rel="nofollow - Star Of Millantas Commercial Value (AUS) 1984
1991brfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=550479" rel="nofollow - Millanta's Doll Flying Doll (AUS) 1980
1991chgelding https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=563111" rel="nofollow - Windslide Pitter Patter (AUS) 1976
1992bcolt https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=500615" rel="nofollow - Cupid's Boy Cherry Nook (AUS) 1986
1992bfilly https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=519505" rel="nofollow - Miss Charlotte Calais Miss (AUS) 1987
1993b or brgelding https://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=549678" rel="nofollow - How To Wish How Now Then (AUS) 1987


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 6:03pm
Furious, The Witty Maid family hangs on by the skin of its teeth through Beldalua and Dark Tan, They have been visiting good stallions so hopefully it can be rejuvenated.

 


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 6:47pm
The most recent version of the table with Abit Leica removed and Auraria and True Course added.  The top row conveniently ends in 1979 with the introduction of Group racing.  The bottom line is a bit fat IMO.  There are some champion mares there but others were just top class.  But it is probably better to have too many and them edit than not have enough... which reminds me... why 100 ?

 
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
 
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
 
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
 
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 6:54pm
100 is a nice round figure, But as you say eventually it got a little modern era heavy.




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 6:56pm
MISS KATE (GB)Brown filly 1873 
Adventurer
Bay 1859
Newminster
Bay 1848
Touchstone
Brown 1831
Camel
Brown 1822
Whalebone
A Mare
1807
1812
1-o
24>
Banter
Brown 1826
Master Henry
Boadicea
1815
1807
3-b
14>
Beeswing
Bay 1833
Dr Syntax
Brown 1811
Paynator
A Mare
1791
0000
 
 
A Mare
Chestnut 1817
Ardrossan
Lady Eliza
1809
1813
2-a
8>
Palma
Brown 1840
Emilius
Bay 1820
Orville
Bay 1799
Beningbrough
Evelina
1791
1791
7>
8-a
Emily
Chestnut 1810
Stamford
A Mare
1794
1799
 
28>
Francesca
Brown 1829
Partisan
Bay 1811
Walton
Parasol
1799
1800
7>
1-e
A Mare
Brown 1815
Orville
A Mare
1799
1800
8-a
12-g
Sporting Life
Brown 1858
The Prime Minister
Brown 1848
Melbourne
Brown 1834
Humphrey Clinker
Bay 1822
Comus
Clinkerina
1809
1812
25>
8-a
A Mare
Bay 1825
Cervantes
A Mare
1806
1818
8-a
1-a
Pantalonade
Bay 1839
Pantaloon
Chestnut 1824
Castrel
Idalia
1801
1815
2-n
17-a
Festival
Black 1836
Camel
Michaelmas
1822
1818
24>
27>
Candlewick
Chestnut 1847
The Prime Warden
Bay 1834
Cadland
Brown 1825
Andrew
Sorcery
1816
1808
1-b
12-a
Zarina
Chestnut 1827
Morisco
Ina
1819
1821
12-c
17>
Maid of Burghley
Bay 1837
Sultan
Bay 1816
Selim
Bacchante
1802
1809
2-n
8-b
Palais Royal
Brown 1820
Blucher
A Mare
1811
1814
4-b
2-r
 Ancestor duplications:Camel4m x 5f Orville4m,5f x

I suspect the above mare is greatest taproot mare in Australasia ?

http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Miss_Kate_GB-206150/2" rel="nofollow - http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Miss_Kate_GB-206150/2




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 6:58pm
Interesting that she probably wouldn't make the list nor the dam of Phar Lap but Phar Laps sister Raphis would just about qualify depending on proper research.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Interesting that she probably wouldn't make the list nor the dam of Phar Lap but Phar Laps sister Raphis would just about qualify depending on proper research.

If you open that link I provide you might have a different idea ? 


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:21pm
doesn't work for me Djebel.  Yes she had two stakes winners but not the three and above which I was starting with.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:29pm
I think AJC Derby winner Monte Carlo may have been out of a sister to Raphis , or a daughter of?


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

I think AJC Derby winner Monte Carlo may have been out of a sister to Raphis , or a daughter of?

Monte Carlo (NZ) 1953
 Aust.Id.: 214087bay stallionDate of Birth: 00/00/1953 
  
 by Lucky Bag (GB) 1944 
 from Bobalong (NZ) 1946 
  
Stakes or Principal Race Wins
YearRace NameStatusDistance
1956 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4005" rel="nofollow - AJC Derby Pr12F
1956 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4006" rel="nofollow - VRC Victoria Derby Pr12F
1957 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=5234" rel="nofollow - AJC St Leger Stakes Pr14F
1957 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4202" rel="nofollow - City Tattersall's Club (Gold) Cup Pr12F
1958 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4016" rel="nofollow - AJC The Metropolitan Pr13F
1958 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4324" rel="nofollow - STC Cup Pr12F
1958 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4502" rel="nofollow - Tatt's NSW Club Cup Pr12F
1958 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=4341" rel="nofollow - VRC L.K.S Mackinnon Stakes Pr10F
1958 https://www.studbook.org.au/RaceWinnersHistory.aspx?RACEID=5039" rel="nofollow - VRC Queen's Plate Pr10F

MONTE CARLO (NZ)Bay colt 1953 
Lucky Bag
Bay 1944
Windsor Slipper
Bay 1939
Windsor Lad
Bay 1931
Blandford
Bay 1919
Swynford
Blanche
1907
1912
1-g
3-o
Resplendent
Bay 1923
By George!
Sunbridge
1911
1914
4-n
19-b
Carpet Slipper
Bay 1930
Phalaris
Brown 1913
Polymelus
Bromus
1902
1905
3-f
1-i
Simon's Shoes
Bay 1914
Simon Square
Goody Two-Shoes
1904
1899
4-n
5-h
Sun Princess
Bay 1937
Solario
Bay 1922
Gainsborough
Bay 1915
Bayardo
Rosedrop
1906
1907
10-a
2-n
Sun Worship
Bay 1912
Sundridge
Doctrine
1898
1899
2-g
26>
Mumtaz Begum
Bay 1932
Blenheim
Brown 1927
Blandford
Malva
1919
1919
3-o
1-e
Mumtaz Mahal
Grey 1921
The Tetrarch
Lady Josephine
1911
1912
2-o
9-c
Bobalong
Brown 1946
Lord Bobs
Bay 1941
Nearco
Brown 1935
Pharos
Bay 1920
Phalaris
Scapa Flow
1913
1914
1-i
13-e
Nogara
Bay 1928
Havresac
Catnip
1915
1910
8-h
4-r
Sister Sarah
Bay 1930
Abbots Trace
Chestnut 1917
Tracery
Abbots Anne
1909
1899
19-a
4-j
Sarita
Brown 1924
Swynford
Molly Desmond
1907
1914
1-g
14-c
Raphis
Brown 1934
Night Raid
Bay 1918
Radium
Bay 1903
Bend Or
Taia
1877
1892
1-k
3-c
Sentiment
Bay 1912
Spearmint
Flair
1903
1903
1-c
1-m
Entreaty
Brown 1920
Winkie
Chestnut 1912
William the Third
Conjure
1898
1895
2-e
1-p
Prayer Wheel
Bay 1905
Pilgrim's Progress
Catherine Wheel
1889
1891
1-g
2-r
 Ancestor duplications:Swynford5m x 5f Blandford4m,5m x Phalaris4f x 5m


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:34pm
Monte Carloe known progeny
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Horse&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Horse http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Color&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Color http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Sex&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Sex http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Year&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Year http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Dam&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Dam http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Broodmare&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - BM Sire http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Record&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Record http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Earnings&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Earnings http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&h=MONTE+CARLO&sort=Family&done=y&filter=All%20Horses&cf=" rel="nofollow - Family  
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/careen2" rel="nofollow - CAREEN2  (USA)dkb/brM1967 http://www.pedigreequery.com/eveleen" rel="nofollow - EVELEEN http://www.pedigreequery.com/quarter+deck" rel="nofollow - QUARTER DECK 34-1-3-5$3,6241-a http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CAREEN2" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/carlomine" rel="nofollow - CARLOMINE  (USA)chM1963 http://www.pedigreequery.com/street+urchin2" rel="nofollow - STREET URCHIN2 http://www.pedigreequery.com/alibhai" rel="nofollow - ALIBHAI ?-?-?-? 2-s http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CARLOMINE" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/creme+de+carlo" rel="nofollow - CREME DE CARLO  (USA)bM1964 http://www.pedigreequery.com/evening+sun" rel="nofollow - EVENING SUN http://www.pedigreequery.com/fritz+maisel" rel="nofollow - FRITZ MAISEL 45-5-4-9$12,3508-d http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=CREME+DE+CARLO" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/donatina+m" rel="nofollow - DONATINA M  M1969 http://www.pedigreequery.com/winding+way" rel="nofollow - WINDING WAY http://www.pedigreequery.com/mr+busher" rel="nofollow - MR BUSHER ?-?-?-? 13-c http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=DONATINA+M" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/earls+pride" rel="nofollow - EARLS PRIDE  (USA)dkb/brH1966 http://www.pedigreequery.com/doriss+pride" rel="nofollow - DORISS PRIDE http://www.pedigreequery.com/eds+pride" rel="nofollow - EDS PRIDE 113-?-?-???5-i http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=EARLS+PRIDE" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/gambling+gal" rel="nofollow - GAMBLING GAL  (USA) F1964 http://www.pedigreequery.com/restless+lady" rel="nofollow - RESTLESS LADY http://www.pedigreequery.com/star+pilot" rel="nofollow - STAR PILOT ?-?-?-? 9 http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GAMBLING+GAL" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/glenns+lady" rel="nofollow - GLENNS LADY  F1966 http://www.pedigreequery.com/dianes+doll" rel="nofollow - DIANES DOLL http://www.pedigreequery.com/beechpark" rel="nofollow - BEECHPARK ?-?-?-? A4 http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GLENNS+LADY" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/green+felt" rel="nofollow - GREEN FELT  (USA)chH1963 http://www.pedigreequery.com/dizzy+whirl" rel="nofollow - DIZZY WHIRL http://www.pedigreequery.com/whirlaway" rel="nofollow - WHIRLAWAY 38-8-?-?$90,6752-s http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=GREEN+FELT" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/historical+hit" rel="nofollow - HISTORICAL HIT  H1967 http://www.pedigreequery.com/fashion+hit" rel="nofollow - FASHION HIT http://www.pedigreequery.com/high+breeze" rel="nofollow - HIGH BREEZE ?-?-?-? 4-i http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=HISTORICAL+HIT" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/ile+emeraude" rel="nofollow - ILE EMERAUDE  (USA)chM1964 http://www.pedigreequery.com/cheers3" rel="nofollow - CHEERS3 http://www.pedigreequery.com/cormac" rel="nofollow - CORMAC 39-3-0-3$3,5902-b http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=ILE+EMERAUDE" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/jacarlo" rel="nofollow - JACARLO  (USA)dkb/brM1964 http://www.pedigreequery.com/cavorting" rel="nofollow - CAVORTING http://www.pedigreequery.com/jacopo" rel="nofollow - JACOPO ?-?-?-? 22-c http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=JACARLO" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/junior+pie" rel="nofollow - JUNIOR PIE  C1967 http://www.pedigreequery.com/badger+pie" rel="nofollow - BADGER PIE http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+warrior" rel="nofollow - MY WARRIOR ?-?-?-? A1 http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=JUNIOR+PIE" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/la+scala15" rel="nofollow - LA SCALA15  (USA) F1963 http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+serenade3" rel="nofollow - MY SERENADE3 http://www.pedigreequery.com/royal+serenade" rel="nofollow - ROYAL SERENADE ?-?-?-? 1-p http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=LA+SCALA15" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/pass+quietly" rel="nofollow - PASS QUIETLY  M1964 http://www.pedigreequery.com/whispered" rel="nofollow - WHISPERED http://www.pedigreequery.com/requested" rel="nofollow - REQUESTED ?-?-?-? 2-o http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=PASS+QUIETLY" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/tinkers+dam" rel="nofollow - TINKERS DAM  F1968 http://www.pedigreequery.com/dark+topaze" rel="nofollow - DARK TOPAZE http://www.pedigreequery.com/piping+rock" rel="nofollow - PIPING ROCK ?-?-?-? 4-b http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=TINKERS+DAM" rel="nofollow - Edit
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+gamble2" rel="nofollow - TOP GAMBLE2  G1966 http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+cap" rel="nofollow - TOP CAP http://www.pedigreequery.com/capot" rel="nofollow - CAPOT ?-?-?-? 16-g http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=progeny&query_type=add&what=edit&h=TOP+GAMBLE2" rel="nofollow - Edit


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:35pm
That was quick lol, seen him on track, beautiful animal.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:36pm
Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 7:52pm
Also the family of Planet Kingdom who really should of been a Champion Sire if he hadn't died after he broke his leg in an accident.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?



Always of the opinion he was a gelding , most of trainer Frank Daltons were.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?



You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?



You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there.

Pretty sure this is Tontonans site ? Beer


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Carioca, I assumptionise Monti Carlo was exported to America ?



You are correct djebel, sold to America due to contractual clause , not allowed to be sold in OZ, definitely an entire, won races in US, go to horsesoftheyears blogspot. com,
scroll down r/h side, it's there.


Pretty sure this is Tontonans site ? Beer

It is and it's an excellent site, a lot of work has gone into it fwiw.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 11:19pm
Lady Zetlandbay mare 1887  
Perkin Warbeck (GB)
Bay 1872
Adventurer
Bay 1859
Newminster
Bay 1848
Touchstone
Brown 1831
Camel
Banter
1822
1826
24>
14-a
Beeswing
Bay 1833
Dr Syntax
A Mare
1811
1817
 
8>
Palma
Brown 1840
Emilius
Bay 1820
Orville
Emily
1799
1810
8-a
28>
Francesca
Brown 1829
Partisan
A Mare
1811
1815
1-e
12-g
Bumblekite
Bay 1864
Voltigeur
Brown 1847
Voltaire
Brown 1826
Blacklock
A Mare
1814
1816
2-t
12-a
Martha Lynn
Brown 1837
Mulatto
Leda
1823
1824
5-a
2-f
Sweetbriar
Bay 1858
Stockwell
Chestnut 1849
The Baron
Pocahontas
1842
1837
24>
3-n
Eglantine
Bay 1853
The Flying Dutchman
Azalia
1846
1834
3-i
42>
Forget-Me-Not (GB)
Bay 1877
King Lud
Bay 1869
King Tom
Bay 1851
Harkaway
Chestnut 1834
Economist
Fanny Dawson
1825
1823
36>
2>
Pocahontas
Chestnut 1837
Glencoe
Marpessa
1831
1830
1-t
3-m
Qui Vive
Brown 1856
Voltigeur
Brown 1847
Voltaire
Martha Lynn
1826
1837
12-a
2-h
Mrs Ridgway
Bay 1849
Birdcatcher
Nan Darrell
1833
1844
11-d
19-b
Mysotis
Bay 1865
Newminster
Bay 1848
Touchstone
Brown 1831
Camel
Banter
1822
1826
24>
14-a
Beeswing
Bay 1833
Dr Syntax
A Mare
1811
1817
 
8>
Souvenir
Grey 1856
Chanticleer
Grey 1843
Birdcatcher
Whim
1833
1832
11-d
23>
Birthday
Bay 1850
Assault
Nitocris
1845
1829
20-a
11-g
 Ancestor duplications:Newminster3m x 3f Voltigeur3f x 4f Pocahontas5m x 4m 
  Birdcatcherx 5f,5m


-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 2:41am
Just taking about good mares,  can I mentione Dark Jewel ?? 


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 10:14am
Yes she would be there.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

The most recent version of the table with Abit Leica removed and Auraria and True Course added.  The top row conveniently ends in 1979 with the introduction of Group racing.  The bottom line is a bit fat IMO.  There are some champion mares there but others were just top class.  But it is probably better to have too many and them edit than not have enough... which reminds me... why 100 ?

 
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
 
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
 
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
 
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Silent Achiever
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

Tontonan if you do not mind as people nominate mares from the past if you could add them in the year of their birth it would be greatly appreciated ?

Also I will leave it up to you to delete mares as you see fit.




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 5:27pm
I'll keep an eye on it but it is very easy to simply copy the table from any post, paste it into a full message box, and edit it directly. 

As for the 'why 100 ?' ...I have found when making these sorts of lists to avoid working to a number.  A few years ago (quite a few now) there were quite a few Top 100 horses of the 20th century lists getting about and I collected and compared them.  The degree of consensus diminished the longer the list was.  I mean between three different lists there was consensus on 7 or 8 of the top 10, 14 or 15 of the Top 20 and about 19 or 20 of the Top 30 but the longer the lists the less consensus there was over the 'also rans'. 

I avoid working to a number.  If there are 13 race mares that are clearly the best of their kind why extend the list to 20 and pad it out with 7 inferiors for the sake of a round number ?  I have wasted a lot of time doing that sort of thing and its not worth it.  

My advice would be to hone the list down to the best of the best then be a hard arse about the rest.  You might end up with 37 or 23 or some other ugly prime number but who cares.  It is better than mulling over which of these 29 mares are going to fit into the last 10 spots of a round number... if you get my drift.  

It is a bit like cataloging stars - go for the brightest first and build the list from there. 

...that's not a bad analogy actually...

Magnitude 10 : Wakeful, Sunline, Makybe Diva, Black Caviar, Winx
Magnitude 9 : Briseis, Let's Elope, Surround, Emancipation, Ethereal
Magnitude 8 : La Carabine, Desert Gold, Cuddle, Tranquil Star, Flight, Wenona Girl, Dual Choice, Leilani, Maybe Mahal, Empire Rose, Horlicks, More Joyous
Magnitude 7 :  Gladsome, Carlita, Valicare, Wiggle, Light Fingers, Rose of Kingston, Tristarc, Mannerism, Dane Ripper, Private Steer, Alinghi, Miss Andretti 
Magnitude 6 : Florence, Auraria, Lady Wallace, Rivette, Rainbird, Evening Peal, Analie, Cap D'Antibes, Blue Denim, Bounding Away, Research, Hot Danish, Miss Finland, Atlantic Jewel, Jameka

etc, etc,.  

But don't take this list to heart.  I threw it together in 5 minutes and not even I agree with all of it.  
As a point of curiosity 50% of the mares on this list were drawn from before 1980 and 50% after 1980 (i.e. the same proportion as your list).   I don't think that spread has as much to do with our prejudice for horses we have seen as it has to do with the prominence of mares both in the pattern and on the track since 1980.

A Grand Dam list is another excellent idea and building the list around family numbers would be a very interesting way of doing it.  But that is for another thread...


Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 8:44pm
Very interesting thread. Perhaps a few others that warrant consideration include Tea Rose, Lowland & the NZ mares La Mer & Battle Eve.


Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 8:48pm
...and Leica Show.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 5:44pm
Frances Tressady who would not make the cut, She won both the Victorian Oaks and Derby in 1923 is the 9th dam of Lady Soma who is undefeated after 2 starts in the South Australian outback. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 8:43pm
Not sure if I have mentioned her elsewhere but Bravery, whilst not one of our great race mares was a top class filly and is proving a wonderful matriarch. 




-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: MJB
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 9:21pm
I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.

Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.

Great list though!


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by MJB MJB wrote:

I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.

Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.

Great list though!

And if you like Red Tracer you'd have to like Appearance too. Great rivalry between those 2, but Appearance usually came out on top.

-------------
"She's going through a growth phase." - GW


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 10:40pm
List updated

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
 
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
 
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1970....Battle Eve (NZ)*
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc 
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
 
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

* indicates additions to the original list


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 10:59pm
Reagardless what has since happened to the trainer, Mosheen simply has to be there. Beat the colts in both the Australian and Randwick Guineas. And won an Oaks by 9L.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 11:18pm
I will top up the list with Mosheen (2008) at a later date.  

If she goes in though, so must Shamrocker (NZ) (2007). 


Posted By: MJB
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by MJB MJB wrote:

I haven't been in the game long enough to give much of an opinion/contribution but l would definitely put a mare like Red Tracer ahead of English.

Red Tracer was a multiple Group 1 winner. 15 wins from 38 starts. She was top draw over a long period of time.

Great list though!

And if you like Red Tracer you'd have to like Appearance too. Great rivalry between those 2, but Appearance usually came out on top.


How did l forget Appearance! Good call.

Guy Walter was a master trainer, but he was especially good at training mares. He was taken from us too soon.

Streama was another one of his good ones but she probably sits just outside the top 100.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:48pm
Another update

1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1870.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
 
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl

1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1970....Battle Eve (NZ)*
1969....Toltrice

1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc 
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka

* indicates additions to the original list

Some thoughts...

We are up to 115 and already the boundary between a champion, top class and very good filly/mare is getting very blurred.  

Personally I do not get carried away about fillies and mares who only excel against fillies and mares.  Appearance was a top class race mare, no doubt, but her three Group 1's were against her own sex.  There are several others on the list who are in a similar boat.  

Obviously it is not the mares fault that her connections set her to beat her own kind rather than take on the boys. It is the most sensible way to race such a mare these days.  But back in the day when owners did not have the luxury of a glut of high staked, high graded races restricted to females they had no option than to run against the males.  There basically wasn't a distaff stakes race in Australia prior to the Winfield Classic (Coolmore Stakes) in 1980.  None at all. 

That maybe the reason why the list is so skewed to 'modern times'.

Another issue is the modern tendency to turn our noses up at historical racing, and apply a much tougher standard to including the 'ancients' on our list.  Take Barbelle for example, own sister to The Barb, winner of the Doncaster Handicap and the Sydney Cup and three editions of the VRC Flying Stakes.  Or Zoe, who won two Australian Champion Sweepstakes and ran second in controversial circumstances in a third.  They don't even make the list !

'Oh but racing was weak in those days' they say.  Yeah, 3 miles with 10 stone and the jockey sitting in the middle of her back, shod in iron on tracks that were little better than cow paddocks, .  Real weak.  But then people have this daft idea that some how, if only in their imagination, these historical horses can be compared to the moderns on the race tracks of their minds and there could be divined a winner and a loser ... in their dreams.  

The first lesson when considering horses across the ages is that everything is relative to the times in which the horses raced.  Same goes for humans.  Usain Bolt is 7 metres faster over 100m than Jesse Owens by the clock - do you really believe Jesse was a 7m inferior athlete to Usain or does Usain get a 7m push by virtue of the 80 years between them ?  Same goes for horses.  The magnitude of their achievements needs to be measured against the metric of their own time.

But what am I saying.  This list doesn't need anymore nominations let alone from the 19th century.  What it needs is trimming.... and for the mares who only raced in New Zealand to be taken off it. Tongue.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 7:28pm
I would not say the best horses of yesteryear were weak but it is only fair to assumptionise that depth would have been less.

I would prefer we expand - define and than refine 😊

I am happy for you or anybody to add as many old time mares worthy of debate.



-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 8:45pm
What is the point of a distaff, a race restricted to mares, that excludes entires and geldings, if it isn't to restrict the depth of the competition ?

And what is the point of paying to 10th if it isn't to subsidize those horses that are not competitive ?

Or of a handicap ratings system that restricts races to horses with a similar lack of ability so that there is a race for everybody to win  ?  

The old girls on this list raced when stakes were lean and they only paid to second.  There were no socialist ratings restricted races.  No distaffs either.  They either had aptitude to race against the boys or they were given something else to do (as there were many uses for a horse in those days). 



Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 9:45pm
The one I’m struggling with is Unworldly. Surely there on “ potential”. Record is nowhere near what it should to be on this list.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:30am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

The one I’m struggling with is Unworldly. Surely there on “ potential”. Record is nowhere near what it should to be on this list.

We could probably say the same of Angst, and even fillies like Indian Summer and Nizam's Ring.  Their form was almost entirely in age and sex restricted company and only for a campaign or two.  Undoubtedly talented but some of 'greatest' females to race in Australia ????

 Potentially I suppose...

Here are a few from the old days...

PETREA : 1876 (King of the Ring - Mischief)   a full sister to First King, considered by some to be the best horse before Carbine.  Her ½ sister Maid Of All Work (by King Alfred) was also extra smart 
winning the Maribyrnong Plate, Ascot Vale Stakes, VRC Sires Produce and the VRC Oaks.  
17 starts for 7 wins.

Principal wins

At 2 years
1879 VRC Sires' Produce Stakes 7f
1879 VRC Ascot Vale Stakes 6f
At 3 years
1879 VRC The Oaks Stakes 12f
1880 AJC St Leger Stakes 14f
1880 AJC Cumberland Stakes 16f
1880 AJC Sydney Cup 16f

also second in the 1880 Australian Cup and 1880 AJC PLate (beaten a length in record time by Caspian).

Owned by WJ Clarke until after the Australian Cup when he sold the filly to William Long after taking offence when accused in the press of the filly not running 'the full rupee' at the Flemington meeting.  Long also owned Grand Flaneur.

ZOE :  1850 (Sir Hercules - Flora McIvor).  Bred in NSW but sold, along with her sire, dam and others to the father of the NZ turf Henry Redwood who raced her until she was 7YO before coming to Sydney to win the Queens Plate.  Redwood then sold her to Honest John Tait.  As a 9YO under 10.1 she finished second to the '3YO' Flying Buck with 6.8 in the first Australian Champion Sweepstakes.  The result was controversial because the convention of 1 August as the birthday of thoroughbreds had yet to be established and it was suspected that the Buck was bred to northern time and had a 6 month advantage under theweights.  Zoe was conceding him22kg.

Zoe went on to win the 2nd Australian Champion Sweepstakes at Randwick (the Buck finished nowhere) and then traveled to Ipswich to win the 3rd Australian Champion Sweepstakes as a 10 year old.  

BARBELLE 1865  (Sir Hercules - Fair Ellen)  Sister to The Barb
Another of John Tait's Barbelle could be hard to catch but in a time when class mares were rare she was the exception.

Principal Wins

1868 AJC Mares Produce Stakes
1870  AJC Doncaster Hcp
1870  AJC Sydney Cup
1870  VRC Flying Stakes (7f)
1871  VRC Flying Stakes (7f)
1872 VRC Flying Stakes (7f)

Note :  The Flying Stakes was renamed the Linlithgow in 1908.  It was the best short course WFA race in Melbourne.

WILARI  1911 (Wallace - Murna)
Herbert Power's filly.  Beat Lady Wallace's son Cisco and Jacamar (full brother to Poseidon) for the Derby

Principal wins
 
1911  VRC Sires Produce
1911 VRC Victoria Derby
1911 VRC Oaks 
1911 VRC St Leger


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:39pm
Tontonan the Hilda in the above list I presume is the daughter of Musket and bred in 1885 not 1870.  That one was an Australian filly by Yattendon who didn't win anything of note.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:42pm
Also I thinks she is well behind another New Zealand filly not on the list - Passive dam of Sobig.
Passive won the GN Derby, NZ Derby, Oaks, Wellington Guineas, Desert Gold S, Gloaming S, NZ St Leger and Sires' Produce S.  And then produced an outstanding son.  One impressive mare.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:57pm
Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc.  Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H.  Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly!  The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 2:16pm
Interesting stat would be what percentage of the 100 very best mares produced a horse equal or better than herself.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 3:00pm
An awful lot didn't even have foals.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc.  Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H.  Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly!  The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields.<div id="UMS_TOOLTIP" style=": ; cursor: pointer; : 2147483647; : transparent; top: -100000px; left: -100000px;">

She's there furious, can't forget her, top class.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 3:51pm
Well spotted Furious. 

I think djebel took the list from Peter Pring's book Analysis of Champion Racehorses (although Pring gives the correct year of birth for Musket's Hilda).  Personally I think those NZ mares who did not race in Australia should be taken off the list, especially if we are to make the cut at 100.

I added Storm Queen in my last update yesterday.  Again, I think the oversight was because she didn't meet Pring's criteria for Analysis of Champion Racehorses.  That book was published in 1977 so everything after 1977 has been added by djebel.

As for Bart, he was a student of thoroughbred families and he had his favourites.  

I have a list of 476 of Australia's greatest racehorses that are sorted by family number and 7 of the 476 come from family 5-d.  And of those 7 no less than 5 were trained by Bart Cummings - Storm Queen, Taj Rossi, Think Big, Tontonan and Saintly.    The other two not trained by Bart were Bobadil and Prince Foote who were a bit before his time. 


1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1885.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
 
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl

1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1970....Battle Eve (NZ)*
1969....Toltrice

1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc 
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka



Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 6:15pm

Here's a few other mares who did well against the males

Quiver (1891)

1895 Randwick Plate

1895 AJC Spring Stakes

1896 Champion Stakes (=1st)

 

Marvel Loch (1900)

1903 AJC Metropolitan

1904 Railway Stakes (George Ryder Stakes)

1905 VATC Eclipse Stakes (Herbert Power)

1905 Rawson Stakes (Ranvet)

1905 Caulfield Cup

1906 Rawson Stakes

 

Traquette (1911)

1913 Maribyrnong Plate

1915 Memsie Stakes

1915 Caulfield Stakes

1915 Melbourne Stakes (L.K.S. Mackinnon Stakes)

1915 Linlithgow Stakes

1915 C.M. Lloyd Stakes

 

Ripa (1960)

1963 Craven A Stakes (VRC Sprint Classic)

1963 Sandown Guineas

1964 Invitation Stakes (Rupert Clark)

1965 Newmarket

1965 C.M. Lloyd Stakes

1965 Toorak Handicap

 

Citius (1962) (she was perhaps Star Kingdom’s best daughter)

1965 VRC Sires’ Produce

1966 Lightning Stakes

1966 Oakleigh Plate

1966 Doncaster



Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 7:23pm
I'd pay all those, although Quiver could be a bit iffy.  

I have done these sort of exercises many times before and these lists get out of hand.  The more names we add the more names suggest themselves.  I sat down to put together a site containing the 100 greatest racehorses ... and I end up with 347 ... and I have got past 1980 !  By the time I am done I will have 500 and still be stressing about those that have been left out. 

Hard criteria is probably the answer ... or brutal editing.   




Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 7:30pm
Just so we are reminded of the benchmarks I have made the Hall of fame mares bold

 
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1885.....Hilda (NZ)
1886.....Cynisca (NZ)
1887.....Lady Zetland (NZ)
1891....Quiver
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1900....Marvel Loch 

1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1910....Warstep (NZ)
1911....Carlita
1911....Tarquette
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1929....Silver Scorn (NZ)
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1942....Soneri (NZ)
1946....Sweet Spray (NZ)
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1953....Yahabeebe (NZ)
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
1960....Ripa
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1961....Citius
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Show Gate (NZ)
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1970....Battle Eve (NZ)*
1969....Toltrice

1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc 
(NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1990....Snap (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2012....English
2012....Jameka



Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Also did anyone say Storm Queen with the Golden Slipper, Champagne S, VRC Sires' Produce, George Adams Handicap, Lightning S, Caulfield Guineas, Moonee Valley S, Merson Cooper, SAJC Bloodhorse Breedrs, Edward Manifold S etc.  Only further back and 4th three times - her first start over 4f her first up as a 3yo and her last run in the Doncaster H.  Perhaps Cummings doing his usual bringing them up slowly!  The last run anything can happen in the Doncaster H with the big fields.

Thanks Furious.  

And yes, Tontonan did suggest Storm Queen.  Thumbs Up  The majority of the races listed below are now Group 1's following the fundamental change in the grading of stakes races quite some years ago now.



https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=year" rel="nofollow - Year https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=name&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Race Grade https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=winner&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Winner TrainerWinner Fam.Dist. https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=second&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - 2nd https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=third&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - 3rd https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=stakes&search_bar=stakes&field=all&h=storm%20queen&order=time&asc=ASC" rel="nofollow - Time Comment
1967 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1223" rel="nofollow - LIGHTNING STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d5 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=REDCAP&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - REDCAP https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MARMION3&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - MARMION3 0:59.80 
1967 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=879" rel="nofollow - MVRC WILLIAM REID STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MARMION3&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - MARMION3 C16 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=TOBIN+BRONZE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - TOBIN BRONZE 1:12.40 
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1986" rel="nofollow - VATC MERSON COOPER STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d6 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=PRINCE+MAX&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - PRINCE MAX https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CANDY+FLOSS2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CANDY FLOSS2 1:13.40 
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3287" rel="nofollow - SAJC BREEDERS STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d6 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -     
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3240" rel="nofollow - VRC EDWARD MANIFOLD STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d8 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CENDRILLON4&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CENDRILLON4 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -     
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1258" rel="nofollow - VRC SIRES PRODUCE STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d7 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VERY+MERRY&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - VERY MERRY   
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1101" rel="nofollow - STC GOLDEN SLIPPER STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d6 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ACADEMY+STAR2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - ACADEMY STAR2 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VERY+MERRY&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - VERY MERRY 1:12.9 
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3666" rel="nofollow - VATC ONE THOUSAND GUINEAS   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CENDRILLON4&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CENDRILLON4 5-c8 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=FARMERS+DAUGHTER2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - FARMERS DAUGHTER2   
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1232" rel="nofollow - VRC GEORGE ADAMS   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d8 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=WOAMBRA&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - WOAMBRA https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=HEROIC+STONE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - HEROIC STONE   
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1256" rel="nofollow - CHAMPAGNE STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d6 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=CANDY+FLOSS2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - CANDY FLOSS2 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ACADEMY+STAR2&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - ACADEMY STAR2 1:10.0 
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=1246" rel="nofollow - VATC CAULFIELD GUINEAS   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d8 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -     
1966 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?search_bar=stakes&query_type=stakes&field=view&id=3237" rel="nofollow - MVRC MOONEE VALLEY STAKES   https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=STORM+QUEEN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - STORM QUEEN 5-d8 F https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=PHARAON5&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow - PHARAON5 https://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=" rel="nofollow -     


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 11:28pm
I have a collection of racehorse records on my blog that tallies 346 and more off line that brings the tally to 475.  Of the 475 there are 68 females (14.3%) and of those only 8 are not on this list. 

*Acrasia :   My collection contains every Melbourne Cup winner and she gets the nod as the first race mare to win the Cup.  Fillies had won but never a mare. No champion though a solid performer on the racetrack.

*Alice Hawthorn (1849): An ancient, the best horse in Victoria during the 1850's, but as NSW's Veno proved in 1857, nowhere near the best horse in the colonies.  I include her as a historical curiousity.

Canny Lass (1982): She won MVRC William Reid S G1, VATC Marlboro Cup G1,Toorak Handicap G1 and later distinguished herself as a very good broodmare.

Claudette (1937) : She is a bit of a Melbourne legend.  She improved out of sight in 1943 to win the Easter Cup before winning the Grand National Hurdle when it was a good race.  She returned in the Spring to win the Williamstown Cup (when it was a very good race), and the following spring, won the Herbert Power Handicap.  A crowd favorite rather than a champion.

Merlene (1993) :  A brilliant juvenile, winner of 5 of her six starts, and carries on the old C2 colonial family

Shaybisc (1977) : Although she only won one Group 1 race (the AJC Sires) she beat the boys consistently in lesser events  and was a multiple blacktype producer.

*Sister Olive (1918) : She only won 2 of her 37 starts, her debut in the Maribyrnong Trial Stakes and, as a 3YO filly, the Melbourne Cup.  She was out of a half sister to Comedy King and is the fourth dam of Tobin Bronze and the fifth dam of Galena Boy.  Not a champion but an important filly in the history of the Australian turf.

Yir Tiz (1977) : Top flight NZ mare, winner of 21 of her 34 starts.  Never unplaced. Fabulous record in NZ but her best (only ?) win in Australia was the Newcastle Newmarket although she was runner up to Watney in the Stradbroke.  Dam of the champion NZ sprinter Mr.Tiz and later sent to Japan.

 * - record on blog

Out of that lot I would probably only consider Canny Lass to be suitable for the Greatest Female Racehorses list.

https://horsesoftheyears.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - https://horsesoftheyears.blogspot.com/



Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 12:30am
Another good sprinting mare from the late 60s was the Victorian Begonia Belle (1964)

1967 VATC One Thousand Guineas, 
1967 Sandown Guineas 
1968 VRC Lighting Stakes 
1969 Alister Clark Stakes
1969 Newmarket Handicap

She had 13 wins from 35 starts but would only be at the fringes of the top 100.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 1:05am
By the time we start pruning this list of some of its fat Begonia Belle might be required yet.  

She is just the sort of  mare who would be acclaimed as a champion if she had the luxury of all those mares races that we have today.  Instead she did it the hard way in open company and her record is very impressive to the Autumn of her 3YO season before she makes an underwhelming trip to Queensland.   

Back in Melbourne in the Spring as a 4YO she is honest enough but in the Autumn, just as it seems her form has moderated, she unleashes with narrow defeat on a heavy track in the Oakleigh Plate then wins the Newmarket in record time and romps home over a mile in the Alister Clark Stakes to close out her career.  

I think she is a legitimate candidate.  Thumbs Up

Another that has been overlooked is Ortensia.  Overshadowed by the great Black Caviar (they only actually met once, in the VRC Sprint Classic and BC beat her third by more than 6 lengths) Ortensia has an exceptionally good international record winning Group 1 races in Australia, Dubai and England. 

Principal wins

2011 WATC Winterbottom Stakes AUS-G1 1200m 
2012 Al Quoz Sprint UAE-G1 1000m 
2012 Nunthorpe Stakes GB-G1 1000m 
2012 King George Stakes GB-G2 1000m
2009 QTC Cup AUS-G2 1300m 
2009 WATC Winterbottom Stakes AUS-G2 1200m 
2008 MRC Thousand Guineas Prelude AUS-G3 1400m 
2010 AJC Galaxy AUS-G1 1100m (But then disqualified)




Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 4:43pm
I would like to apply a criteria excluding fillies and mares from the list that have not raced in Australia.  I am more than happy to generate a separate list for New Zealand fillies and mares but it will make life a hell of a lot easier if we leave those off who never made the trip across the Tasman.

I would also take off those fillies and mares that raced in Australia but did not win a stakes races.

That would remove the following 11 from the list -

Hilda (NZ) Cynisca (NZ) Lady Zetland (NZ) Warstep (NZ) Silver Scorn (NZ) Yahabeebe (NZ) Soneri (NZ) Sea Spray (NZ) Show Gate (NZ) Battle Eve (NZ)  Snap (NZ) 

There are some champions there but I don't feel confident of assessing the fillies and mares of New Zealand or assessing the quality of their NZ records.  

If the criteria was extended to exclude fillies and mares who have not won a Group 1 (or equivalent) race in Australia then Seachange (NZ) La Mer (NZ) wouldn't make the cut either.  

Cruciform would stay because although it is debatable whether the AJC Spring Stakes was a Group 1 equivalent race she did beat Wakeful in winning it.  Tycoon Lil (NZ) hangs by a thread owing to her win in the Canterbury Guineas. 

I would replace them with these :

Begonia Belle,  Canny Lass, Champagne (NZ), Jezabeel (NZ), Ortensia and Delicacy

And the list would look like this ....

1850....Zoe*
1865....Barbelle*
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1876....Petrea*
1891....Quiver*
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1900....Marvel Loch*

 
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1911....Carlita
1911....Tarquette*
1911....Wilari
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
1960....Ripa*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1961....Citius*
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1964....Begonia Belle*
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
1971....Cap D'Antibes
 
 
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1975....La Mer (NZ)*
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 
1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1982....Canny Lass*
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1992....Jezabeel*
1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1994....Champagne (NZ)*
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2002....Seachange (NZ)
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2005....Ortensia*
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2011....Delicacy*
2012....English
2012....Jameka

 

119 entries

If anyone objects lodge a protest by all means.  

Otherwise I think we just about have the possibilities covered and can move on to deciding which 19 can be cut from the list to bring it back to 100.  





Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 5:12pm
I'm glad you have included Lady Sybil Tontonan, another fav. fwiw.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 6:00pm
It may be that Lady Sybil was simply a superior wet tracker, but there is a bit more to her than that.  

She famous for one campaign, in the Spring of 1960 when she won 7 of 8 starts...

WON VATC Elsternwick Stakes (Slow) x 2½ lengths
WON MRC Berwick Handicap (Slow) x 6 lengths
WON MVRC Moonee Valley Stakes (Slow) neck to Samson
WON VRC Edward Manifold Stakes (Heavy) x 10 lengths
WON VATC Caulfield Guineas (Heavy) x 3 lengths to Sky High
3rd VATC Thousand Guineas (Good)  Head x 2 lengths  Wenona Girl 1st; Impulsive 3rd (dam of Reckless)
WON VRC Oaks Stakes (Heavy) x 2 lengths
WON VATC Sandown Guineas (Slow) x neck

At that point she had 18 starts for 9 wins 3 seconds and 1 third and the scalps of a couple of Hall of Famers to her credit.  But then she totally lost form and did not win again in a further 13 starts and mid way through her 4YO season she was bought by Nelson Bunker hunt and exported to the USA.  

She proved an excellent broodmare producing Amerigo Lady who was a multiple Graded stakes winner in the USA including the Gr.1 Firenze Hcp (defeating Shuvee no less) and the Hollywood Oaks. 

She also produced Brigand who returned to Australia as a sire and produced Cole Diesel and River Rough.


Posted By: Summer Regent
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 11:43pm
Good idea with the criteria for the elimination of those New Zealanders, Tontonan. It'll be harder to get consensus on the final 100 though.

For the sake of completeness, one New Zealander which could be considered is the Summertime mare, Stellar Belle (1963), which raced here as Star Belle. 

She was the best NZ 3yo of her season with the Derbies/St Leger plus the Oaks, although she was only 3rd behind Farmer's Daughter in the 1966 VRC Oaks and unplaced when Cendrillon upset 3/1 on Storm Queen in the 1000 Guineas. 

She won 18 races including the following (4 current G1s)

1966 Wakeful Stakes

1966 ARC Great Northern Derby

1966 CJC NZ Oaks

1966 ARC Great Northern Guineas

1966 WRC Desert Gold Stakes

1966 ARC Ladies Mile

1967 Wellington Derby

1967 Craiglee Stakes

1967 Liston Stakes

1967 Turnbull Stakes




Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 3:10pm
In the Caulfield Cup of 1996 the runs of Arctic Scent (1992) and Saleous (1992) were better than that of Circles Of Gold (1991).
Arctic Scent won the race and Saleous, an on pacer, missed the start badly and made up many many lengths to finish sixth.
At their next start in the Mackinnon, Saleous beat home both Circles Of Gold and Arctic Scent.

A case could be made that both Saleous and Arctic Scent have equal or even superior records to Circles Of Gold.


Posted By: Tontonan
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 2:29am
I agree.  Circles of Gold is one of the first I would take off.  She only won 1 Group 1 race and that was age and sex restricted.  I think she was originally included (along with a few others) because djebel was in two minds regarding whether the mares breeding record was relevant.  

I'd make the same argument regarding Bravery and Toltrice and Gay Poss : Their records as broodmares has been influential in their selection.

The only criteria we had was the thread title 

Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses


If it had of been 'greatest Thoroughbred fillies and mares' then their breeding record would matter, but as it is 'greatest female racehorses' the breeding record doesn't matter at all.

As 100 is the magic number we need to weed 17 from the current list...

1850....Zoe*
1865....Barbelle*
1867.....Florence
1869.....Lurline (NZ)
1873.....Briseis
1876....Petrea*
1891....Quiver*
1892.....Auraria
1894.....La Carabine
1896.....Wakeful
1898....Cruciform (NZ)
1900....Gladsome (NZ)
1900....Sweet Nell
1900....Marvel Loch*

 
1902....Lady Wallace
1906....Lady Medallist(NZ)
1911....Carlita
1911....Tarquette*
1911....Wilari
1912....Desert Gold (NZ)
1918....Furious
1920....Frances Tressady*
1922....Valicare
1929....Cuddle (NZ)
1929....Waltzing Lily*
1933....Rivette  ntb
1937....Tranquil Star
1945....Flight
1941....Rainbird
1941....Tea Rose
1946....Chicquita
1947....True Course
1952....Evening Peal
1955....Wiggle
1957....Wenona Girl
1957....Lady Sybil (NZ)*
1958....Indian Summer*
1960....Ripa*
1961....Light Fingers (NZ)
1961....Citius*
1963....Storm Queen*
1964....Lowland (NZ)
1964....Begonia Belle*
1966....Gay Poss (NZ)
1967....Dual Choice
1969....Analie (NZ)
1970....Leilani (NZ)
1969....Toltrice
 
 
 
1971....Cap D'Antibes
1971....Leica Show*
1972....Denise's Joy
1972....Maybe Mahal
1972....Toy Show
1973....Desirable
1973....Surround (NZ)
1975....My Blue Denim (NZ)
1978....November Rain
1978....Rose Of Kingston
1979....Emancipation
 

59

1981....Spirit Of Kingston
1981....Tristarc (NZ)
1982....Empire Rose (NZ)
1982....Heat Of The Moment
1982....Canny Lass*
1983....Bounding Away
1983....Horlicks (NZ)
1983....Special
1984....Bravery*
1985....Research
1985....Riverina Charm (NZ)
1986....Courtza (NZ)
1987....Let's Elope (NZ)
1987....Mannerism
1987....Triscay
1989....Burst
1989....Miltak (NZ)
1989....Skating
1989....Slight Chance (NZ)
1990....Angst
1990....Electronic (NZ)
1991....Circles Of Gold
1992....Jezabeel*

1993....Dane Ripper
1994....Tycoon Lil (NZ)
1994....Champagne (NZ)*
1995....Grand Archway
1995....Sunline (NZ)
1996....Miss Pennymoney
1996....Spinning Hill
1997....Belle du Jeur
1997....Ethereal (NZ)
1997....Unwordly
1998....Republic Lass
1999....Makybe Diva (GB)
1999....Private Steer
2000...Shamekha
2001...Alinghi
2001...Lotteria
2001...Miss Andretti
2003....Hot Danish
2003....Miss Finland
2003....Tuesday Joy (NZ)
2005....Typhoon Tracy
2005....Ortensia*
2006....Black Caviar
2006....More Joyous (NZ)
2007....Pinker Pinker
2007....Red Tracer*
2007....Shamrocker (NZ)*
2008....Atlantic Jewel
2008....Appearance*
2008....Silent Achiever (NZ)
2008....Mosheen*
2011....Winx
2011....Delicacy*
2012....English
2012....Jameka

 
58

Hall of Famers in Bold
*
= addition to original list

Removed from original list :

Hilda (NZ) Cynisca (NZ) Lady Zetland (NZ) Warstep (NZ) Silver Scorn (NZ) Yahabeebe (NZ) Soneri (NZ) Sea Spray (NZ) Show Gate (NZ) Battle Eve (NZ)  Snap (NZ) 
Reason : NZ mares who either never started in Australia or never won a stakes race in Australia

La Mer (NZ) and Seachange (NZ) and Stellar Belle (NZ)
Reason : Never won a Group 1 race (or equivalent) in Australia
______________________________________________________________________

Following Warri Symbol's lead, if you have any suggestions as to which 17 horses should be cut from the list please post them...





Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:08pm
No spot for Forensics (2004)?

3x Gr1
3x Gr2
3x Gr3

Slipper winner.
Myer Stakes winner.
Queen Of The Turf winner.
Golden Rose (G2) winner.


Posted By: WarriSymbol
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:35pm
Electronic (1990) is lucky to be there.
2x Gr1
A Metropolitan and a weak Ranvet where just two of the eight horse field had previously won a Group One event.
Both her Group Ones being against the blokes is a plus, to be fair.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:46pm
Joanne, I am not sure she deserves to be dropped.

If we are going to be tough we have to look at a horses form not just the fact she won big name races.

There will be some mares who ran into top class horses and were beaten whilst other mares have run in diabolical eras.

When Joanne was the top female sprinter the only group 1 sprint race in Sydney was a handicap, The Galaxy.



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STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.




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