Live animal shipments

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Topic: Live animal shipments

Posted By: acacia alba
Subject: Live animal shipments
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:31pm

Who saw the vile footage of the sheep on that ship ? Can anyone here say now that they still support live export ??
All the so called rules , and most of them just broken , and all could see plainly , how badly.

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animals before people.

Replies:

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:36pm

Absolute disgrace Acacia. More power to animal welfare activists i say. The industry is rubbish - smokes & mirrors. A plan to ban all live exports should be introduced

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:52pm

OMG did you see how deep the poop was, that they were standing in ? And the rules say no pregnant ewes to be shipped, yet all those lambs born just to die in that disgraceful way. Sick

Meanwhile the bloke sipping champers at Ascot. he should be Nuke

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 12:35am

Banning it is stupid - we are quickly running out of export industries.

The authorities just need to fix it, with proper policing and penalties.

Derryn Hunch has been campaigning for a ban on live exports for 35 years - which tells a story in itself - DON'T BAN IT!!! Cry

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 3:14am

Why cant they slaughter here,,,freeze,,and ship ???   Whats so hard about that ?   Provide more jobs here as well. Build a abbitoir specially for that outlet.
Why is it necessary to subject any animal to that horror ??   Weeks crammed together in stifling conditions, not even room to lay down, up to their guts in s**t,,,,to be killed in a manner that suits those sick sods at the end of their horror journey.    For those that survive .
Almost 3 thousand died on that one ship alone. One vet on that ship of shame. To see to all those thousands of animals. Is that good practice ?
Did you watch/see it, Dr E ???   If you didnt, you need to go have a look and then come back here and tell me it doesnt make you feel sick and disgusted. If it doesnt , you have no heart.
The authorities have been insisting for years its all hunky dory, then a vid leaks, and again they promise to make sure its all good, and again we see this horror. Not just with sheep, but with cattle too.
The so called authorities are limp and useless. They have been given chance after chance to fix this,,,and they havnt, and its still a horror story.
Too late !!!   Stop it .
I say, GO DARREN.   Anyone who thinks/feels this is OK is sick.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 9:36am

The Gillard Govt tried to clean it up following a 4 Corners show on cattle exports and cruelty. The LNP went off their heads calling it a threat to our economic and national security after Indonesia suspended trade with us over it and looked for other market to get their cattle. They blamed Labor for undermining us and took it to an election

What makes you think the same govt now will do anything to upset their export partners by properly fixing or ceasing this disgusting industry? They wont

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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 9:39am

Everybody involved in the disgusting trade knows that once the ship leaves port it is basically unregulated and things like this latest outrage are inevitable.

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 12:33pm

acacia alba wrote:

Why cant they slaughter here,,,freeze,,and ship ??? Whats so hard about that ? Provide more jobs here as well. Build a abbatoir specially for that outlet.

Simple economics. We can supply live at an acceptable price to these countries but we price ourselves out of the processed market.I disagree with the practice but that's the reason for live export which obviously helps our Balance of Payments.
Whilst I'm not entirely anti union, having worked for several years in our local export licensed boning room, feel that if not for unions, it'd still be operational.
Wages were massive & I think the company could cope with that but it was all the extras the boners demanded that killed it! They only worked 7 - 1pm max but kept demanding more $$ & lower tallies (no. of bodies). As it was they only worked 20 mins of each hour with everyone else packing etc the full hour whilst they played cards in their smoko room but there's a limit to how much you can screw out of any company.
All us 'labourers' were spewing when it closed as so many locals were employed at good hours & rates. Boners & slicers were on better money that foremen running each dept't.
We also supplied lamb & sheep to the Middle East both full bodies & broken down/packed.

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 12:59pm

Yes Gay, some unions do go well over the top, and kill the chicken that lays the golden egg. The auto industry is another good example.
But surely now they must be forced into cleaning things up here. I see they have set up a hot line for dobbers ( for want of a better word ) and I bet there will be plenty .

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 1:37pm

acacia alba wrote:

Why cant they slaughter here,,,freeze,,and ship ???   Whats so hard about that ?   Provide more jobs here as well. Build a abbitoir specially for that outlet.
Why is it necessary to subject any animal to that horror ??   Weeks crammed together in stifling conditions, not even room to lay down, up to their guts in s**t,,,,to be killed in a manner that suits those sick sods at the end of their horror journey.    For those that survive .
Almost 3 thousand died on that one ship alone. One vet on that ship of shame. To see to all those thousands of animals. Is that good practice ?
Did you watch/see it, Dr E ???   If you didnt, you need to go have a look and then come back here and tell me it doesnt make you feel sick and disgusted. If it doesnt , you have no heart.
The authorities have been insisting for years its all hunky dory, then a vid leaks, and again they promise to make sure its all good, and again we see this horror. Not just with sheep, but with cattle too.
The so called authorities are limp and useless. They have been given chance after chance to fix this,,,and they havnt, and its still a horror story.
Too late !!!   Stop it .
I say, GO DARREN.   Anyone who thinks/feels this is OK is sick.

Yes I saw it aa - it's unacceptable, that's why I agree that it must be fixed - 100,000 Australian jobs are on the line.

You do realise what awaits these animals in the Muslim countries they are going to?

You know that horses are still dying from their injuries on race tracks around the world ... should we ban horse racing because the authorities have been given a chance and haven't fixed it?

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 1:46pm

This story from The Land this week.

FORMER federal cabinet minister and NSW rural Liberal MP Sussan Ley has backed Green’s policy in demanding an end to live sheep exports.

Ms Ley took to Twitter to make a ground breaking public statement contradicting Coalition policy on live exports, amid the current controversy involving sheep shipments to the Middle East, exposed by 60 Minutes at the weekend with video footage supplied to a whistle-blower via Animals Australia of animals suffering extreme heat stress on multiple voyages.

“Enough is enough with these ships of shame,” she said.

“Saying other countries would be worse is a lazy non argument.

“Time for these monsters to face prosecution.

“Time to pick a date by which all live sheep exports must end.

“We can work with industry and farmers to make this happen.”

It’s understood Ms Ley has also made similar comments reflecting her views in other media today.

Agriculture and Water Resources Minister David Littleproud has been contacted for comment.

Ahead of the 60 Minutes broadcast, the rookie minister promised there would be no ‘knee-jerk’ response to the latest live exports controversy but has ordered a new investigation into a 2017 voyage involving Emanuel Exports where 2400 sheep died, due to the broadcast of the video footage and pledged to take stronger action including imposing http://www.theland.com.au/story/5331981/littleproud-announces-live-exports-whistle-blower-hot-line/?cs=5375" rel="nofollow - tougher sanctions on exporters found to be in breach of regulations.

Today, Greens leader Richard Di Natale said Mr Littleproud’s proposed review in response to fresh revelations of the “horrific conditions” within the live export industry was “just more smoke and mirrors”.

He said only an immediate transition away from live exports would “stop the needless suffering experienced by thousands of innocent animals”.

“We’ve had enough reviews into this horrific industry,” he said.

“We don't need more reviews, we need an immediate transition away from live exports.

“We can't trust this industry to police itself and we can't trust this government to do it for them.

“This footage and reports of the mass death of over two thousand sheep on a live export ship in August are just the latest examples to become public of the cruelty, suffering and death this industry inflicts on animals each year.

“When you see the footage of these poor creatures being tortured for profit, it is clear that there is simply no justification for allowing this to continue.”

Ms Ley told Fairfax Media her views were sparked by frustrations with exporters involving live sheep shipments to the Middle East which dated back to an incident in 2003 during former John Howard and then Agriculture Minister Warren Truss’ era, involving the Cormo Express.

That shipment was rejected by its intended markets and stranded at sea for an extended period resulting in thousands of sheep deaths and triggering a parliamentary inquiry that led to implementation of some reforms.

“We have been promised since then – so the entire time I’ve been a member of parliament I’ve been listening to these promises and I’ve heard enough and I actually don’t trust the exporters,” she said.

“It seems the supply chain will always produce these types of events because the industry’s had too many chances to clean up its act and I don’t even know if it’s possible to clean up their act.

“Australia won’t be able to hold its ‘head high’ in the international community on a range of rural issues if we continue our live sheep export trade to the Middle East, for a variety of reasons.

“I’m pleased with the steps that the Agriculture Minister has taken and they’re good sensible steps (in response to 60 Minutes broadcast) but I would go further by setting date by which we announce, with industry, with farmers, not cutting anyone off at the knees in terms of their business enterprise and their investments - doing it properly - that we will actually be a country that doesn’t have live exports anymore.”

In 2017, Australia’s live sheep exports, of close to 2 million head, reached $249 million but that only represents about 10pc of total sheep and sheepmeat exports value in aggregate.

However, WA is the nation’s largest exporter of live sheep accounting for more than 85pc of the total volume.

WA rural Liberal MP and Katanning farmer Rick Wilson said he was open to looking at tougher shipping time-frames, rather than backing Ms Ley’s view.

“I think perhaps we could look at restricting shipments in the July through September period for vessels that don't have the most up to date ventilation systems,” he said.

“Incidents like this put the entire trade at risk - we need to act expeditiously to ensure that it doesn't happen again.”

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 7:25pm

OK, so what do the farmers and the rest of the 100,000 people employed by the industry do ... maybe the ALP/Greens Collusion lead by Mr Di Natale can just pay them a Universal Wage ... which is what everyone will be on when they finish destroying all of our remaining export industries ... Thumbs Up

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 11:26pm

Why does it need to be destroyed ?? Confused

How hard is it to implement proper care of animals in transit ??
If the big wig of that ship can afford champagne trips to Ascot he can afford proper vet care, and a decent place for these animals to travel in, surely ?? There was one vet on that ship. ONE !!!!    For all those animals.   I dont even know how many there were , but approx 2,500 died, so the number must have been massive.
Lessen the load in a shipment so the animal has room to move and lay down, so they arnt jam packed together for weeks on end in the heat,,,,install air con on all decks,,,,put in place a stall muck out system so they dont stand belly deep in gelati for weeks,,,,and obey the rules,,,,no pregnant ewes, for starters.
How hard is that ???   Not really hard at all,,,unless you are a money grabbing a-hole. Making your fortune off the misery of animals.
Dont make excuses and tell us how sad it will be for farmers etc,,,,I come from a farming family, and mine are horrified at whats going on. How weak the rules are and how weak the ones that are in place are not being enforced. And how weak the Govnt are on this, and have been for years.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 11:38pm

That's what I said aa -fix it - they know what is needed, and the end users will pay. Actually, if you get more live ones through, you make more anyway!

The Human Headline and the Greens want to just shut it all down ... it's just like they want to shut down coal - and like coal, if we don't supply the demand, someone else will, and they will probably do it with less compliance, and the outcomes will be potentially worse!

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 12:41am

Yes they know whats needed, but who is forcing them to do it ?? No-one, unless folks like us force them to. Speak up and say enough is enough.
If they cant fix it and get it right, I am with the Human Headline. God knows they have had enough chances to do so, and they have failed every time.
So far the Govnt watch dog has been weak as piss, and its been going on for years. Excuses and excuses and no real improvement at all.
So if the authorities are too limp to enforce rules, and bring in new and better ones, it should be shut down until its up to scratch.
Shut it down for 6 months and watch everyone shape up !!!   They will be falling over themselves to get it right.
Shape up or ship out.   If you cant get it right , after all these chances, then piss off.
As to coal. Well !! Come and live around the mines and watch them destroy the beautiful country side so it can be sent to China.   Its the same old story. They say they will fix up the land after the mining ceases. Yeah !! Right !!     They say they will contribute $$$ to the community.   Yeah . Right !!

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animals before people.

Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 12:57am

When you see a story like this, it makes you realise we are living in the dark ages

We arent a "progressive" and advanced civilisation at all.

Been wanting to become a vegetarian for years. This story pushed me to it.

My personal belief, if you cant kill it yourself, you dont deserve to eat it.

I can kill a fish, grew up fishing.

I could never kill a cow, a chicken, a lamb. Would have an emotional breakdown.

Maybe food for thought for others. Pardon the pun.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 2:04am

Well, you are right there, as to seeing this stuff happening . Its definatley dark ages stuff. I admit I eat meat. But I want it handled humanely.
And its not just the transporting of these animals in these shocking conditions for weeks on end .
Its the horrible death they suffer when they get there . Halal and all that oh so PC crap.
You can say us meat eaters are hypocrits. But holy dooley Cry

These muslims who claim to be close to their God , and want the animal slughtered in their way, the barbaric way, have no feelings at all for animals. Its sick stuff , what faces the animals at the end of the horror sea journey.
Halal , and halal slaugher , makes a mockery of the muslim stuff about kindness/peace etc, that we keep getting told about.
Its all just horrible . Stop the ships. Slaughter here. Stuff the unions. Stuff halal slaughter.
And, for mine, these farmers who send the stock to these ships, should be made to travel on one with their sheep/cattle, and actually see whats happening, and I bet they wont send any more of their animals to that hell.

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animals before people.

Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 7:17am

If the animal actually makes it there alive it meets a cruel end anyway. I wonder if its even possible to make the journey humane - thousands of animals crammed onto ships below deck. The animal has to be transported to the ship then loaded on , suffer for days during shipping,

then get unloaded (god knows how cruel this is) and then transported to wherever it meets its end

Just stop the industry - Dr e's argument doesn't stack up. If an industry is inhumane it shouldn't exist.

I didn't notice that the world ended when slavery was abolished - despite arguments that it would

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 2:01pm

OK marble, you have NFI, so read carefully!

Do you think the Muslims will just stop importing livestock to slaughter if we don't supply it?

No, they will just source live exports from some other country, that probably has LESS regulation, and causes greater cruelty and slow death to animals!

Here's an idea, why don't you just round up some Greenies, and pop over to the Middle East, maybe Syria, and start up a picket line demanding they stop Halal Slaughtering practices altogether? ... that might work! ... whilst you are at it, you might want to protest their treatment of women as well (it's like slavery!).

It's just like the hand wringing bed wetters who are to stupid to understand, and have been brain washed into thinking that their virtue signalling and screeching to "Stop Adani" will actual achieve anything other than destroy more job opportunities for Australians!

If we don't supply the coal, someone else WILL ... and it will likely be a Third World country, with NO environmental compliance requirement, and NO human rights compliance ... the 1600 coal fired power plants that are commissioned or under construction, WILL need a coal supply for the next 50 years, and they don't really care where it comes from.

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Softy
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 2:33pm

I find it quite amazing how you can turn a conversation about animal welfare into one about coal production with one quick deflection Dr E. Well done.

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 3:04pm

I think acacia brought up the coal problem in her area.

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 3:14pm

OPINION

http://theconversation.com/" rel="nofollow - The Conversation

By Nancy Cushing

Posted yesterday at 12:22pm

recent episode of https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/08/21/06/60-minutes-live-export-sheep-vessel" rel="nofollow - 60 Minutes has captured public attention and the political agenda by airing dramatic video footage from Animals Australia, showing the fate of Australian animals in the live export trade.

Video shot secretly by a crew member shows sheep on five separate voyages from Fremantle to the Middle East last year. They are buffeted by the movement of the ship, strain to breathe in the hot, noisy and acrid atmosphere between decks and trample the dead and dying under their hooves.

But while these glimpses inside a transport ship are new, the practice of live animal export is as old as the European colonisation of Australia.

Animals of the new colony

The first arrival of animals that would later be exported from Australia, including sheep, cattle and goats, can be dated with unusual precision to January 1788.

Like the convict workforce who made up the bulk of the human cargo on the First Fleet, the livestock, purchased mainly at the Cape of Good Hope, were considered necessary to transplant a British society and economy to Antipodean soil. Live animal import from other colonies, like India and Batavia, and from Europe continued throughout the first century of colonisation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/hoist-sheep/9640938" rel="nofollow"> Hoists used during live export carry sheep in a harness

Breeds that suited the climate and their roles in the colony, especially those that helped displace native plants and animals and Indigenous peoples, were sought after and carefully nurtured.

Gradually the inward flow of animals reversed. Flocks and herds increased to the point where some could be http://www.whpress.co.uk/EH/papers/830.pdf" rel="nofollow - sold on to other destinations . Initially, this was to the other colonies Britain was establishing in the region, such as Van Diemen's Land (now Tasmania), Western Australia, New Zealand and South Australia.

These animals were primarily traded to establish new populations at their destinations.

http://www.whpress.co.uk/EH/papers/830.pdf" rel="nofollow - Animals from New South Wales were also sent to the French colony of New Caledonia, and in small numbers farther afield to Russia, Japan and India. As numbers rose, larger-scale live export for consumption became established.

A hidden process

As in the present, this trade had distinct phases, some more visible than others. The process began where the animals were raised, generally on lightly stocked rangelands in the interior. They were driven on foot or loaded onto rail carriages to be taken to ports, where they waited in open yards to be loaded onto ships.

Thus far, the animals were moving through public spaces, where their treatment and conditions could be seen and in some cases recorded.

Members of the public could register their concerns and seek to have mistreatment addressed. And even in a period when animal welfare was still an emerging concept, some did.ailcars laden with frightened stock led to http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1367032" rel="nofollow - complaints about overcrowding and lack of access to food and water. One observer labelled such treatment "as gross a case of cruelty as it is possible to conceive".
However, once the animals were hoisted or walked onto ships, they became invisible. No outsider could see them. Only those involved with the voyage knew how densely they were packed, how secure their pens were, whether their dung was cleared away, or how much food and water they received over journeys that could last for weeks. In the case of sheep, the advice was to pack them like wool bales, so tightly pressed together that they prevented one another from falling over.
In many cases, the animals were barely seen at all, except by one another, being left to their own devices on short voyages. During longer trips they would be tended to minimally, because of the toxic environment created below deck by what were termed their "exhalations of carbonic gases".
Even the evidence of how many died on the voyages was hidden.
Their bodies were thrown overboard before reaching port and few records were kept.
Animals carried on open decks could be seen while at the docks and had access to better-quality air, but were more vulnerable to high seas and inclement weather.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/sheep-undergoing-live-export/9640936" rel="nofollow"> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/sheep-undergoing-live-export/9640936" rel="nofollow -
At the other end of the journey, the exported animals came back into view. This was often when the most useful accounts were recorded.
Complaints about their poor condition, reduced numbers or the loss of entire shipments of animals were considered worthy of writing about in local newspapers by those who had eagerly awaited their arrival.
It is at the receiving end of the export process that http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article128922323" rel="nofollow - accusations of flimsy pens, overcrowding or the loading of animals that were not fit for the voyage can be found.
Taking this longer view of the Australian live export trade shows just how extraordinary the opportunity to see what happens during live export is.
Animals Australia has https://secure.animalsaustralia.org/documents/aamedia/20006_animals-australia-background-briefing-sheep-export.pdf" rel="nofollow - noted that:
"Australia's live sheep trade has operated for over five decades with only those financially invested in the trade having visual access to the conditions and welfare implications for the sheep on-board".
This has been an issue for much longer than 50 years, but it's now possible for outsiders — including farmers, politicians and members of the public — to see the appalling conditions of the live export trade for themselves.
Nancy Cushing is an associate professor in Australian history at the University of Newcastle. This article was originally published on https://theconversation.com/australias-history-of-live-exports-is-more-than-two-centuries-old-94730" rel="nofollow - The Conversation .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/60-minutes-live-export-sheep-footage/9640926" rel="nofollow -

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 3:23pm

it seems the more sophisticated we become, the more uncouth we actually are.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 4:30pm

Dr E wrote:

That's what I said aa -fix it - they know what is needed, and the end users will pay. Actually, if you get more live ones through, you make more anyway!

Not me, Gay Big smile

Coal was Dr E,s pet peeve LOL

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animals before people.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 4:33pm

So basically we havnt learned anything, or changed one bit, when it comes to animal welfare, in all these years . We can fly men to the moon and make machines that can do almost anything, but we cant improve animal welfare ?? Sick

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animals before people.

Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 7:09pm

Dr E wrote:

OK marble, you have NFI, so read carefully!

Do you think the Muslims will just stop importing livestock to slaughter if we don't supply it?

No, they will just source live exports from some other country, that probably has LESS regulation, and causes greater cruelty and slow death to animals!

no doc its you that is clueless. How about you put yourself on the next export ship in the hold and if you make it back buy a house and live in it next to the adani mine. Thats living the dream Doc.

How many times does it take for you to understand that is impossible to get 100% of all animals there humanely and still make money. It can't be done

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:21pm

marble wrote:

Dr E wrote:

OK marble, you have NFI, so read carefully!

Do you think the Muslims will just stop importing livestock to slaughter if we don't supply it?

No, they will just source live exports from some other country, that probably has LESS regulation, and causes greater cruelty and slow death to animals!

no doc its you that is clueless. How about you put yourself on the next export ship in the hold and if you make it back buy a house and live in it next to the adani mine. Thats living the dream Doc.

How many times does it take for you to understand that is impossible to get 100% of all animals there humanely and still make money. It can't be done

We cant get the road toll down to zero - should we ban cars? Wacko

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:24pm

Softy wrote:

I find it quite amazing how you can turn a conversation about animal welfare into one about coal production with one quick deflection Dr E. Well done.

It's not really a stretch, it's generally the same ill informed people who are over reacting.

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:24pm

unless your trying to crack a world record I dont think too many people are forced into cars

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:26pm

marble, good luck to you living in your bankrupt Utopia, where no animal ever comes to any harm ... did you even look at the Halal Slaughter video? Ermm

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:27pm

I hope you are a vegetarian, and not 100% hypocrite ...

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: marble
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:28pm

i dont get your argument- you are pro live export but anti halal slaughter? doesnt make sense to me

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:00pm

Very emotive issue - & quite rightly so. Seeing animals go through that just churns my guts. One arguement I don't cop is how it will cost jobs - so what ? So does the move to off-shore manufacturing in sweat shops , the car industry closing its doors because they can't make a quid , the Club industry doing away with Poker Machine attendants (& they are always SO concerned about jobs when the govt wants to increase taxes) , ect. Bottom line for me none of those are any better reason to lose jobs in this country than animals being poorly treated / handled via Live Export . The Doc is correct in saying it will only result in someone else stepping up to take our place who will probably be worse - even so I would like to see a controlled withdrawal from the industry.

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:06pm

Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:11pm

oneonesit wrote:

Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me

It does politically in that the party most effected by the trade and it's survival is the National Party.

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:21pm

Passing Through wrote:

oneonesit wrote:

Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me

It does politically in that the party most effected by the trade and it's survival is the National Party.

Ok. The point I was trying to make is that all types of people across the spectrum have great love for animals within the same race of people. Different races can have more / less tolerance though - generally speaking of course

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:25pm

No that is why i said politically rather than ideologically

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 9:51pm

Passing Through wrote:

No that is why i said politically rather than ideologically

Actually I will change my comment. Spent a bit of time doing farm labouring during Uni breaks as a kid & I must admit the relationship between country folk & their animals was quite different to what I was used to growing up in the Suburbs of Sydney with a stack of dogs & cats. Moreso on farms. If the animal was not instrumental in "being useful" it was often left to fend for itself (like cats). In fact have a country mate ( farmers son) who always has a crack at me how we molly coddle our dog & cat.

-------------
Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 4:12am

marble wrote:

i dont get your argument- you are pro live export but anti halal slaughter? doesnt make sense to me

Why would you lie ... or are you really that daft?

When did I say I was pro or anti anything?

I'm just presenting and rationally commenting on the facts, rather than screeching hysterically, and you don't seem capable of processing it.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that you can make no sense of it by the way ... Wink

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 4:27am

oneonesit wrote:

Very emotive issue - & quite rightly so. Seeing animals go through that just churns my guts. One arguement I don't cop is how it will cost jobs - so what ? So does the move to off-shore manufacturing in sweat shops , the car industry closing its doors because they can't make a quid , the Club industry doing away with Poker Machine attendants (& they are always SO concerned about jobs when the govt wants to increase taxes) , ect. Bottom line for me none of those are any better reason to lose jobs in this country than animals being poorly treated / handled via Live Export . The Doc is correct in saying it will only result in someone else stepping up to take our place who will probably be worse - even so I would like to see a controlled withdrawal from the industry.

It makes no sense to displace 100,000 workers, who will have virtually zero chance of re-employment in the areas that they work ... for no result ... in fact, most likely a worse result when countries with less compliance requirements step in and fill the void.

BTW, can someone please point me in the direction of ANY industry that deals in breeding animals FOR ANY PURPOSE that has a ZERO attrition rate, and is completely cruelty free? ... Puppy Farms maybe? ... no? ... Battery Hen Farming? ... no? ... Horse breeding? ... no? ... Piggeries? ... no? ... Greyhound racing? ...

Sorry, it's impossible to create a perfect outcome, and there will always be rogues, in any industry, but it is possible to introduce more regulation and safeguards, and appropriate penalties, that will minimise the chances of animal suffering.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 12:34pm

Most of your suggestions are good, Dr E but already there are regulations in place re live export, and have been for maybe 5 ? or more ? years now, but no one makes any effort to see they are adhered to. Its pointless making rules and regs when no one is going to make any attempt to enforce or obey them. Once the ship leaves port its at the mercy of the gods, and so are the animals on it.
For instance. One rule is , no pregnant ewes to be shipped.
So, even beofre those sheep stepped foot out of Australian duristiction , people here , ie, farmers/vets/shipping agents all clearly broke the rules. If the Aust contingent arnt going to stick to the rules, why would the shipping mob , once the ship leaves port ???
Pointless making more rules when no one has any intention of abiding by the ones already in place. And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle, who is to know whats going on out there at sea ? And its not just that ship as a one off. Its been happening for years, and it keeps being brought to the attention of the authorities, and whats happened so far ?? Sweeet FA. They have had years to clean up their act, and done nothing, and no intention of doing so. How many chances should they have ? Its like something out of the dark ages, not 21st century Australia.
And meanwhile millions of animals are suffering like this. How long should it be allowed to go on ??

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animals before people.

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:30pm

"And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle"

"the whistleblower behind the leaked footage, Faisal Ullah told 60 Minutes........."

God help us all, could he possibly be of Middle Eastern, descent, a Muslim & animal lover?

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:45pm

isnt it a given that how you treat your animals is a reflection on your character?

they must be monsters.

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:47pm

The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi_150700" rel="nofollow - https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi_150700

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:49pm

You must be the change you wish to see in the world. Mahatma Gandhi
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/mahatma_gandhi" rel="nofollow - https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/mahatma_gandhi

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:50pm

Image result for dalai lama on how you treat animals

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:59pm

imagine using these graphics in campaigns. would be very effective shoved in a politicians face.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 3:49pm

Thank heavens there are a few more out there besides me who care about animals and how they are treated Thumbs Up

While we are talking animals, how about signing the petition , or emailing CUB, to try and stop them doing away with the Carlton Clydesdale Team , please ? That team are icons of Aust . Dozens will lose their job, and they say the horses will be pensioned off. Right Cry

If they are too tight to maintain the show team and the staff, why would we believe they intend to care for the horses. Out of sight, out of mind. Thumbs Down

Look how Bud in the USA have made legends out of their show teams . One would expect a brewery wouldnt be so short of cash they cant maintain a show team. Shocked

Please email and have a say, or sign the petition.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 3:57pm

Carlton United Brewery gets rid of Clydesdales

Petition

http://www.change.org/p/fosters-mailsy-custhelp-com-carlton-united-brewery-gets-rid-of-clydesdales" rel="nofollow - http://www.change.org/p/fosters-mailsy-custhelp-com-carlton-united-brewery-gets-rid-of-clydesdales

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Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 4:38pm

Can't understand why the ACCC can't make part of the sale of an iconic brand to maintain part of the family friendly images that people recognised to be associated with CUB, but really wtf would they care.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 5:33pm

acacia alba wrote:

Most of your suggestions are good, Dr E but already there are regulations in place re live export, and have been for maybe 5 ? or more ? years now, but no one makes any effort to see they are adhered to. Its pointless making rules and regs when no one is going to make any attempt to enforce or obey them. Once the ship leaves port its at the mercy of the gods, and so are the animals on it.
For instance. One rule is , no pregnant ewes to be shipped.
So, even beofre those sheep stepped foot out of Australian duristiction , people here , ie, farmers/vets/shipping agents all clearly broke the rules. If the Aust contingent arnt going to stick to the rules, why would the shipping mob , once the ship leaves port ???
Pointless making more rules when no one has any intention of abiding by the ones already in place. And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle, who is to know whats going on out there at sea ? And its not just that ship as a one off. Its been happening for years, and it keeps being brought to the attention of the authorities, and whats happened so far ?? Sweeet FA. They have had years to clean up their act, and done nothing, and no intention of doing so. How many chances should they have ? Its like something out of the dark ages, not 21st century Australia.
And meanwhile millions of animals are suffering like this. How long should it be allowed to go on ??

Did you know it is illegal to stand for a Federal Government election if you are a dual citizen? ... hmmm, bad analogy, when politicians break their own rules, no animals suffer - only citizens!

Did you know that it is illegal to drink and drive, text and drive, take drugs and drive, speed, etc ... there have been rules about that for decades, yet people STILL do it! ... hmmm, bad analogy again, mostly human beings who are dying from that, not many animals.

Did you know that smoking caused heart disease and lung cancer, and causes millions of deaths world wide? ... oh wait, that's legal, and no animals were hurt in the process ...

FIX THE RULES AND POLICE THEM!

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 5:43pm

BTW, whilst we must not lose sight of the fact that we are actually talking about protein that will eventually be cruelly slaughtered to appease archaic religious beliefs, I also care about animals and I am against cruelty and exposing them to any form of undue suffering ... that is the very reason that our authorities MUST fix what we do in the export trade, rather than just ban it ... the outcome from an Australian ban will be that Muslim countries will source live animals from countries that have LESS regulation, and far greater cruelty will occur ...

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:52pm

Passing Through wrote:

Carlton United Brewery gets rid of Clydesdales

Petition

Thanks, PT . Thumbs Up

You know how technically challenged I am LOL

-------------
animals before people.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:55pm

Dr E wrote:

BTW, whilst we must not lose sight of the fact that we are actually talking about protein that will eventually be cruelly slaughtered to appease archaic religious beliefs, I also care about animals and I am against cruelty and exposing them to any form of undue suffering ... that is the very reason that our authorities MUST fix what we do in the export trade, rather than just ban it ... the outcome from an Australian ban will be that Muslim countries will source live animals from countries that have LESS regulation, and far greater cruelty will occur ...

Just HOW do we force them to fix this , tho ? They have had numerous chances, and they talk and bluster, and tell us how much this trade is worth to us, and what they are "going" to do, and place more limp wristed rules in place, but nothing is done, and its been like this for years .
How long is this carnage acceptable ? And how do we force change ?

-------------
animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 1:10pm

No problem AA Thumbs Up

I see also that this year was the first year in about 16 or so that the famous, fabulous Budweiser Clydesdales weren't featured in US Superbowl ads. It is the only thing about that stupid game I looked forward to each year. Cry

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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 1:13pm

I know, PT ! Me too ! There are all those wonderful ads on you-tube tho, and every so often I go have another look.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 1:17pm

A reminder Smile

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 1:19pm

Yes...the "get your act" approach is logical / reasonable Acacia. Very hard to argue against. Unfortunately it loses its credibility a touch when nothing ever changes. Fact is they seem incapable of stopping these catastrophes. One vet on board - sort of says it all really !

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Refer ALP Election Promises

Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 11:39am

and the rspca has OFFERED to put inspectors on these ships.

for me that is the biggest elephant NOT in the room.....why havent they been there ALL along!

forever reactive is the rspca.

who is in charge of the rspca? should be sacked.

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 1:20pm

Yeah but I dont think the RSPCA can just take themselves on board to travel on the ship, can they ? They may be able to go on board while the ship is in an Aust port, while everything is hunky dory because the sheep have just been loaded, but if its a foreign owned vessel ( and I believe all of them are ) they would have no rights or duristiction once it leaves Aust ??? I dont think ?
They may have offered to travel on these ships, but thats the last thing the foreign owners would allow, and really, how much power or influence does our Govnt have to enforce rules and regs once the ship is out of Aust waters ?? Sweet fa would be my guess. Cry

So bringing in more rules is a waste of time, because they wont be enforced anyway.

PS is the word as I spelled it above ? or is it " duristriction " ??? Confused

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 3:21pm

It appears that Australia has sovereign jurisdiction within 24 nautical miles of our Territorial Sea baseline ... it would be hard to argue that, it extends to our Exclusive Economic Zone (200 nautical mile limit), in this case.

http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/marine/jurisdiction/maritime-boundary-definitions" rel="nofollow - http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/marine/jurisdiction/maritime-boundary-definitions

Notwithstanding that, the conditions shown in the video, didn't arise in the time that it takes to ship the animals from 24 k's offshore, direct to their destinations in the Middle East or Indonesia, which would take a matter of days at most.

There will never be a zero attrition rate when dealing in commercial livestock farming, sales and distribution, however, RSPCA intervention, at least up until the time of departure, would mitigate those conditions arising, as much as possible.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 4:47pm

How ??? When as you say those conditions dont occur until the ship is miles and miles away from Aust .

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 5:13pm

I can't believe that the video we saw represents a couple of days at sea either ... other than sensationalising it, did the "reporters" say how long those animals had been on that ship, or how their condition and that amount of excrement had accumulated over what period of time?

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 6:25pm

Not sure ( cant remember exactly ) but I think he did say it was taken once the ship reached the area where it heated up a lot more, way out in the ocean, so had to be a long way from Ozz one would suspect. Look at the depth of the poo and you can tell its not a collection of a few days. Thats weeks worth. It was up to their bellies in some shots. Just look how they are crammed in tho ! No room to move or even lay down, so standing crammed together for weeks, and lambs being dropped to be trampled as soon as they are born. ( Which also should not be happening as they are not to ship preggers ewes ). Must have piss poor vets in the Aussie contingent if they cant sort preggers from non preggers . How ever are they allowed to cram them in like that ? The weaker ones wouldnt even be able to force their way to water troughs. And the ones in the middle would never ever get near the sides for a breeze or breath of fresh air.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 6:44pm

Again, and I'm not making excuses, but we have been given no explanation about how this came about, but I would suggest that these are NOT the normal transportation conditions.

... don't expect those facts to be reported by the media, in case it reduced the outrage.

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 7:40pm

The guy took footage of 4 or 5 different trips.

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 7:50pm

A WHISTLEBLOWER hotline is being urgently established to expose animal welfare breaches in the live export trade after “shocking” incidents of cruelty to sheep were revealed.

Federal Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has also launched an investigation into his own department’s “capabilities and culture” after it failed to find any breaches by one exporter that was allegedly part of the Nine Network’s 60 Minutes’ expose last night.

The Minister signalled the government would also look at tougher penalties for the heads of export firms, including jail terms and heavy fines, if they breached live export rules.

Mr Littleproud said the hotline would be running by the end of the week after a person came forward with video footage showing dozens of distressed sheep struggling to breathe on a ship last August.

“We need to put in place an environment as soon as we possibly can to protect those brave young men and women to come forward and call out bad behaviour,” Mr Littleproud told reporters in Melbourne.

His comments come after the Nine Network aired footage last night of hundreds of Australian sheep, cramped together and dying aboard squalid live export ships headed from Australia to the Middle East.

The video, filmed by a navigation officer on board multiple voyages, showed thousands of animals packed into ship’s pens, panting in the extreme heat.

More than 1300 sheep allegedly died in two days during an intense heatwave in the Persian Gulf.

The navigation officer told https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes" rel="nofollow - 60 Minutes that crew fainted while the sheep, unable to leave the boat, were essentially being “put in an oven”.

Crew members are seen tossing carcasses from the boat into the sea while others fight for food or collapse and die in filth below deck.

It is alleged Emanuel Exports was behind one of the recorded journeys. Industry regulations forbid pregnant sheep being exported on the ships but the footage shows young lambs crammed in with the flock.

“I have seen a lot of little young lambs die - they’ve been crushed under the feet of other animals,” the officer said in a video diary aired by 60 Minutes. “It’s so distressing.”

Animals Australia, which investigated the footage and took the case to regulators, said the conditions have been accepted by the industry for decades.

A WHISTLEBLOWER hotline is being urgently established to expose animal welfare breaches in the live export trade after “shocking” incidents of cruelty to sheep were revealed.

The Minister signalled the government would also look at tougher penalties for the heads of export firms, including jail terms and heavy fines, if they breached live export rules.

Mr Littleproud said the hotline would be running by the end of the week after a person came forward with video footage showing dozens of distressed sheep struggling to breathe on a ship last August.

The video, filmed by a navigation officer on board multiple voyages, showed thousands of animals packed into ship’s pens, panting in the extreme heat.

More than 1300 sheep allegedly died in two days during an intense heatwave in the Persian Gulf.

The navigation officer told https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes" rel="nofollow - 60 Minutes that crew fainted while the sheep, unable to leave the boat, were essentially being “put in an oven”.

Crew members are seen tossing carcasses from the boat into the sea while others fight for food or collapse and die in filth below deck.

It is alleged Emanuel Exports was behind one of the recorded journeys. Industry regulations forbid pregnant sheep being exported on the ships but the footage shows young lambs crammed in with the flock.

“I have seen a lot of little young lambs die - they’ve been crushed under the feet of other animals,” the officer said in a video diary aired by 60 Minutes. “It’s so distressing.”

Animals Australia, which investigated the footage and took the case to regulators, said the conditions have been accepted by the industry for decades.

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 11:55pm

I rarely watch them, and if I do, I consciously ignore reports by 60 minutes, 4 Corners, ACA, 7:30 Report, etc ... as they are invariably designed to manipulate the facts to sensationalise events, and they are unashamedly biased in their reporting anyway - remember our friend with the spit hood? ... Cut Corners made all of that re-hashed footage - that had already been investigated, and recommendations ignored - look so terribly compelling that it had our own PM look like a fool calling a knee-jerk Royal Commission ... and he doesn't need help looking like a fool.

I have no doubt that bad things happen to these animals in extreme circumstances, but to think that it is common, based on a reporter trying to sell advertising space would be naive.

Notwithstanding that, as I have said from the start, steps can be taken to minimise the risk of it happening again ... there will be added costs, which will produce better commercial outcomes anyway if waste is reduced, and if our product is as highly regarded as it seems, the cost will be carried by the end user ... if not, the industry will be deemed unviable, and close down anyway.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 2:26pm

Did you see last night,s film of how the sheep are treated once they arrive in some hell hole overseas abbatoir ? ( Cant spell that,,where are the spelling nazis when I need them ? ) They were slung around like sacks of spuds and repeatedly bashed with sticks. And I mean hammered . Picked up by their wool and flung thru the air. Not just 1 or 2 sheep and not just once or twice. They were like mad men the way the carried on. Shipment to that place has been suspended, thankfully. Lets hope it stays suspended.
If there is a farmer reading this ? For ewes to be preggers , they must have a ram in the paddock/pen with them ? If there has been a ram in with them before you sell them, then you must know there is an almost 100% chance they are preggers ? So when they go thru the saleyards and are bought for export, who is responsible for putting their hand up and saying "hey these old girls are up the duff " ??? Or do they even go thru the yards, or is it a direct farm to export buyer process ?
There are so many people responsible for this debacle, its not funny . Or acceptable.

-------------
animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 4:27pm

Stop Islam?

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 5:13pm

https://abuaminaelias.com/the-rights-on-animals-in-islam/Feb 29, 2016 - In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. Islam upholds the rights of animals to kind treatment and justice the same as it does for human being. Animals should not be abused or taken for granted. Allah has informed us that the animals are communities like human beings and have similar rights.

https://www.thoughtco.com › ... › Religion & Spirituality › Islam › Principles & BeliefsAug 21, 2017 - As we have seen, Islam requires that all animals are to be treated with respect and kindness. Unfortunately, in some Muslim communities, these guidelines are not followed. Some people mistakenly believe that since humans needs take priority, animal rights are not an urgent issue. Others find excuses to ...

I think many Islamists behave similarly to Christians i.e. rely on prayers to have your sins absolved then go out & do it all again Cry

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 8:52pm

Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has told Sky News the live export industry needs to change its culture or it will face the consequences. It follows the leaking of a troubling video showing sheep crammed on a ship, struggling to breathe in hot conditions.
Mr Littleproud said he would make a difference to the industry even if they had to be 'dragged kicking and screaming', saying the livelihoods of farmers matter more than a few exporters doing the wrong thing.

-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 9:59pm

We will see . Lets hope he stands firm.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 2:04pm

This is with their best foot forward, post expose...disgusting trade must be stopped.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/not-sheep-shape-livestock-trampled-and-dying-on-ship-docked-in-fremantle-ng-b88813093z" rel="nofollow - http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/not-sheep-shape-livestock-trampled-and-dying-on-ship-docked-in-fremantle-ng-b88813093z

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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 8:44pm

Vile and disgusting. I dont understand how they ever allowed this ship to leave Aust while this issue is on-going. Those poor animals have weeks of suffering ahead of them and no one can help them.

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animals before people.

Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 9:00pm

I actually believe farmers when they say how horrified by all of this. But something about their outrage rings hollow. It's their product. Someone needs to ask them- what are YOU going to do about all this?

Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:17pm

Daws inducted to LiveCorp Hall of Fame

STEPHANIE SINCLAIR

Outgoing LiveCorp chairman David Galvin (left), 2017 Lifetime Achiever Award winner Graham Daws and fellow Industry Hall of Fame member Ian McIvor.

Outgoing LiveCorp chairman David Galvin (left), 2017 Lifetime Achiever Award winner Graham Daws and fellow Industry Hall of Fame member Ian McIvor.

Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:19pm

WITH almost 50 years’ experience in the live export industry, Emanuel Exports managing director Graham Daws was last week inducted into the LiveCorp Hall of Fame after being presented the Lifetime Achiever Award at the LIVEXchange 2017 gala dinner.

Mr Daws was one of two award recipients at the annual event at Perth’s Crown Towers last Thursday.

Harmony Agriculture and Food Company’s (HAAFCO) compliance and welfare manager Holly Ludeman was named the Landmark International and Australian Live Exporters’ Council (ALEC) Young Achiever of the Year.

After joining Emanuel Exports in 1971 – a company his father Tom incorporated in 1955 – Mr Daws has gone on to play a central role in Australia’s live sheep trade to the Middle East.

He was a founding member of the WA Livestock Exporters’ Association (WALEA) in 1977 where he served as chairman for five years and was involved in the formation of ALEC in 1985, which he later chaired for multiple terms.

Mr Daws was also a founding member of LiveCorp in 1998.

LiveCorp chairman Terry Enright said that Mr Daws had made an extraordinary contribution to the industry over almost five decades.

“Graham and his family have had a huge impact on Australia’s livestock export industry, especially as a driving force in the live sheep trade from WA to the Middle East,” Mr Enright said.

“His place in the industry’s Hall of Fame is thoroughly deserved.”

http://www.farmweekly.com.au/news/agriculture/general/news/daws-inducted-to-livecorp-hall-of-fame/2756253.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.farmweekly.com.au/news/agriculture/general/news/daws-inducted-to-livecorp-hall-of-fame/2756253.aspx

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:32pm

So its an honourable thing to get a pat on the back for organising ships of shame ???
He should be hanging his head in shame , IMHO.

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animals before people.

Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:38pm

I'd like to cram a few thousand live exporters, pollies and farmers onto that ship and send it to the Middle East next summer. LOL

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:44pm

Top idea, Tiaz. I will back that idea 100%. Thumbs Up

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animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 7:41pm

acacia alba wrote:

So its an honourable thing to get a pat on the back for organising ships of shame ???
He should be hanging his head in shame , IMHO.

Would you like a ticket to the 2018 Banking and Finance Industry Awards aa?

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 11:33pm

No thanks Dr E. Its common knowledge they are all crooks.

-------------
animals before people.

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:29am

I find it hilarious that when they are not attacking our asylum seeker policies and intake, the biggest punching bags that the ALP/Greens Collusion and our media has at the moment is banking and the live animal trade ... and yet our policies and practices in all three areas are the International Gold Standard! ... we do enjoy bashing ourselves up over nothing, don't we!!! Ermm

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 8:58am

And here we have conservative politicians past and present coming out and calling out both banking and animal abuse.

I guess some couldn't in good conscience maintain their bullsh*t political money trumps everything stance. Doc on the other hand is rock solid with the deplorables.

-------------

Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 9:35am

Dr E wrote:

I find it hilarious that when they are not attacking our asylum seeker policies and intake, the biggest punching bags that the ALP/Greens Collusion and our media has at the moment is banking and the live animal trade ... and yet our policies and practices in all three areas are the International Gold Standard! ... we do enjoy bashing ourselves up over nothing, don't we!!! Ermm

Gold standard in live export is no live export. The problem with gold standards in that disgusting trade is that they are largely unenforceable. As for Australian banks being gold standard- where did you get that bullsh1t from? You sound like all those other idiots, mainly from the school of Murdoch, who were ranting about how useless and unnecessary a RC would be.

Did you catch Media Watch on the banking RC last night, PT? Very funny. LOL

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 9:40am

No, I will watch the replay later, but I read Turnbull admitting to making a ''political miscalculation'in not calling for the RC when it was being loudly called for.

Not a moral or ethical miscalculation, a political one. In other words it ended up costing opinion poll points and then probably votes. That is all that governs their behavior.

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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 1:59pm

PT, I am sure you will suss out an answer for me . Thumbs Up

Who else, besides Aust, live exports animals in such large numbers ?
Just so we can compare Aust,s gold standards with theirs .

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animals before people.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:32pm

Numbers are not clear and mostly old data but it seems it is a dying industry due to welfare concerns, except for Australia. NZ export industry has been largely restricted to breeding animals that are under heavy welfare requirements

Australia is the world’s largest exporter of sheep and cattle. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_and_Livestock_Australia" rel="nofollow - Meat and Livestock Australia , 2.44 million sheep were exported to markets in Asia and the Middle East in 2012,^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_export#cite_note-5" rel="nofollow - [5]} reduced from 4.2 million in 2008.^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_export#cite_note-6" rel="nofollow - [6]} The total number of cattle exported in 2012 was 617, 301, down 11% from the previous year. Indonesia accounted for 45% of total live cattle exports from Australia in 2012. Total cattle exports to Indonesia reduced by 33% from 2011.^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_export#cite_note-7" rel="nofollow - [7]}

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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:33pm

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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:34pm

acacia alba wrote:

PT, I am sure you will suss out an answer for me . Thumbs Up

Who else, besides Aust, live exports animals in such large numbers ?
Just so we can compare Aust,s gold standards with theirs .

I think the Brazilians are big in the trade. They've probably got the silver medal.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:35pm

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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:38pm

That graph is very hard to believe- France? No way.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:47pm

Live transport in the context of inter EU trade, I cant find, but there is a report on exports outside the EU.

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/4037267/Export_of_live_animals_from_eu_to_noneu_countries.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/4037267/Export_of_live_animals_from_eu_to_noneu_countries.pdf

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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:51pm

France has the largest cattle population in Europe Numbers in millions

File:Livestock population, 2016 (million head).png

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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 3:15pm

Passing Through wrote:

Live transport in the context of inter EU trade, I cant find, but there is a report on exports outside the EU.

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/4037267/Export_of_live_animals_from_eu_to_noneu_countries.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/4037267/Export_of_live_animals_from_eu_to_noneu_countries.pdf

That would be trucking them around Europe- if that's live export there should be another term for what Australia is doing- live to start with torture trade- something like that.

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 3:24pm

Yes, as I said figures are not clear and not very current.

One thing is for sure though, Australia as the world's largest live animal exporter dont truck any animals abroad.

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Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 5:23pm

Tlazolteotl wrote:

You get your financial advice from Media Watch? ... I did see that, and it WAS a sad joke!

Everything that has been exposed in this RC (like all of them) was OLD NEWS, that was either dealt with or being dealt with, by the regulators under the existing laws.

Our banking and financial system is up there with the most regulated, conservative and successful in the world ... our 4 major banks are all in the top 10 businesses in the country.

Why do you think we cruised through the GFC? ... it wasn't because of the ALP/Green Collusion's policies of giving money to dead people - see they DO need Financial Advice, particularly if we end up under a Socialist Government!

... oh and btw, do you know ANYONE who has super or a share portfolio, who does not have a stake in CBA, Westpac, NAB or ANZ and has benefited from all they have done?

I hear the crazy lesbian head of the ALP Sally McManass, has turned her hand to financial advice, and suggested that all Industry Super Funds should divest themselves of bank shares Wacko

... good luck if she ends up running the country with her hand up Bill's ass ... Dead

What a fcuking mororn! ... and yet Bill can only do as she says!!! Ouch

ACTU asks super funds to review ties with banks amid royal commission

Australia's peak union body is calling for industry superannuation funds to review default arrangements with "dodgy banks" in the wake of scandals uncovered by the financial services royal commission.

Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary Sally McManus has written to chief executives of industry super funds asking them to reconsider their commercial relationships with financial institutions following the "corrupt and unethical behaviours" revealed in the royal commission.

"In light of the revelations of the past weeks at the Banking Royal Commission, I am asking Industry super fund CEOs to reconsider their commercial relationships with banks," Ms McManus said in a statement on Tuesday.

"The retirement savings of working people should not be used to prop organisations that house rotten, corrupt and unethical behaviours like those revealed over the past weeks at the Banking Royal Commission."

People who live in glass houses, Sally ....

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/actu-asks-super-funds-to-review-ties-with-banks-amid-royal-commission

funny pictures

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 5:32pm

Passing Through wrote:

No, I will watch the replay later, but I read Turnbull admitting to making a ''political miscalculation'in not calling for the RC when it was being loudly called for.

Not a moral or ethical miscalculation, a political one. In other words it ended up costing opinion poll points and then probably votes. That is all that governs their behavior.

Because that is all it was, a political mistake.

Take away the hysteria, and look at what has been done, it was bad, and heads were already rolling, and the rectification and compensation processes were already in place ... but an RC is an RC - it's only purpose and outcomes will be airing dirty laundry, which only serves to give us a bad reputation internationally (for 5 minutes if anyone even cares), provide cannon fodder for the media to catastrophise over, (but it does sell advertising space), and line the pockets of Lawyers - The CBA alone has allocated $200,000,000 for legal costs, JUST for the RC hearings - just like most of us, I'm a shareholder in CBA, and I'm a bit pissed off about that! Angry

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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!

Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 5:38pm

If they hadn't done anything wrong, or at listened to many many warnings in the past, they would have nothing to worry about.

You are blaming the cops for catching the crooks and making them look bad? LOL

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Live export is a centuries-old Australian industry, but the cameras are new

Animals of the new colony

A hidden process

Carlton United Brewery gets rid of Clydesdales

Carlton United Brewery gets rid of Clydesdales

Daws inducted to LiveCorp Hall of Fame

ACTU asks super funds to review ties with banks amid royal commission