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Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: International Racing
Forum Description: Horse racing from all around the world
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=60720
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:52pm
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Topic: ENABLE
Posted By: ThreeBears
Subject: ENABLE
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 12:21pm
The run of top fillies around the world continues with Enable storming home to a decisive victory last night in England. She thrashed the older horses with the likes of Highland Reel miles in her wake. Admittedly the ground was rain affected after a storm, putting paid to Highland Reel's chances, but he probably would have struggled to match the filly in any conditions. Enable actually over raced for the first half of the King George and still surged clear.
 
Not yet entered for the Arc but that seems a formality given she's the raging favourite and still improving. Second favourite Almanzor hasn't even raced this season let alone at a mile and a half, while third favourite 3yo Brametot is also yet to race beyond 2100m. Enable could jump off the shortest priced favourite for many years. Currently around 2/1 at best and that looks most generous.



Replies:
Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 12:26pm
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Nathaniel_1" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Galileo" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Sadlers_Wells" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Northern_Dancer" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Fairy_Bridge" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Urban_Sea" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Miswaki" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Allegretta" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Magnificient_Style" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Silver_Hawk" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Roberto" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Gris_Vitesse" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Mia_Karina" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Icecapade" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Basin" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Concentric_1" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Sadlers_Wells" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Northern_Dancer" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Nearctic" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Natalma" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Fairy_Bridge" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Bold_Reason" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Special" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Apogee_1" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Shirley_Heights" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Mill_Reef" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Hardiemma" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Bourbon_Girl_1" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Ile_De_Bourbon" rel="nofollow -
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Fleet_Girl" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 12:38pm
Enable will likely finish the year as the highest rated turf runner and she only has two more runs up her sleeve, The Yorkshire Oaks and The Arc.

She is a monster on any surface.

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 12:43pm
Interesting 3m x 2f of Sadler's & love the Lalun triple Big smile neither will do her any harm in the staying department! Thanks for posting.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: AndiCap
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 6:27pm
She certainly jacked off some hobbits LOL


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 7:59pm
Very nice play on words Andi.  

ps Gay wants you to run a couple of major Spring Comps, such as the Gp1 comp.  So get yourself bl00dy organised fella.  Smile


Posted By: AndiCap
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 8:11pm
It was wasn't it LOL
I have no less than 3 forums wanting me to run Spring Comps..that is what happens when one runs them so professionally eh Wink

Horatio AndiCap
(also a play on words)


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 12:59am
I like the fact she's by Nathaniel and is owned by Khalid Abdulla who owns Frankel. Those two stallions faced off first start and now the owner has another great horse by the runner up.   
Greetings Horatio. I don't know the Wheelers so you're safe here.    


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 4:44pm

Cracksman the new Arc favourite with Enable ruled out until at least August

By Graham Dench

Cracksman is the new favourite for the Qatar Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe following the news that his stablemate Enable has met with a slight setback and is likely to be out of action until August at the earliest.

Last season's runaway Champion Stakes winner, who was an easy winner of the Prix Ganay on his recent return to action, is trading at around 5-2 and 11-4 for Longchamp, having been widely available at 7-2 on Monday morning.

On the other hand Enable, whom connections still hope will be fit to bid for a second Arc on October 7 could on Monday be backed at as big as 5-1 with William Hill, having been 3-1 favourite in their list when news of the setback broke late in the morning.

Nicola McGeady of Ladbrokes, who have cut Cracksman to evens (from 5-4) for Royal Ascot's Prince of Wales's Stakes, said: "The hopes are that Enable will be back and fighting fit for the Arc, but the setback was enough to spark a flurry of bets on Cracksman coming out on top and he is now our market leader for the race."

Elaborating on the brief statement with which the news was broken on Monday morning, Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to owner Khalid Abdullah, said: "Enable has some filling in a knee and we are going to investigate it and then treat it or deal with it as advised.

"If it was a minor knock we might be saying that while she might not make the Coronation Cup she could still be back later in June, but with this we're going to allow plenty of time for it to hopefully settle down and then aim to get her rolling in August.

"The advice we have is that, given reasonable circumstances, she should be ready to run then as a preparation for the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe."

He added: "She'd been doing fantastically well and we were looking forward to her beginning proper work this week. It was literally on Friday, when she just did a swinging canter on the Al Bahathri."

The Arc has always been the principal aim as a four-year-old for the John Gosden-trained filly, who carried all before her as a three-year-old when rattling up successive top-level wins in the Oaks, Irish Oaks, King George and Yorkshire Oaks before crowning a magnificent campaign with a highly impressive defeat of Cloth Of Stars at Chantilly.

https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/1236333/enable/form" rel="nofollow - Enable  had  https://www.racingpost.com/news/enable-team-in-no-hurry-with-arc-double-bid-the-main-priority-for-gosden-star/324928" rel="nofollow - already been held up by cold weather  prior to this latest setback, but connections had been hopeful she might have returned to the track in either the Tattersalls Gold Cup at the Curragh or the Investec Coronation Cup at Epsom on June 1.

The Darley Yorkshire Oaks, which Enable won last year by five lengths, or the Juddmonte International, would be an obvious starting point for her if she recovers as anticipated.

Grimthorpe confirmed: "We would obviously hope she would get to York, but I don't want to be nominating targets at this stage and that's why I've simply said August for now. She'll tell us long before that if she's going to be ready or not, and we'll keep everybody up to date when we know."

He added: "Prince Khalid has had to deal with quite a lot of bad news over the years and he takes it stoically."



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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 7:59pm


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 12:22am
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/enable-confirmed-to-miss-york-with-kempton-likely-starting-point/342585%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/enable-confirmed-to-miss-york-with-kempton-likely-starting-point/342585


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 12:28pm
Entered at Kempton in the G3 September Stakes to face four other entries including Crystal Ocean who ran second in the G1 King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Royal Ascot.


Posted By: Morston
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 1:17am
Originally posted by Brudder_A Brudder_A wrote:

Entered at Kempton in the G3 September Stakes to face four other entries including Crystal Ocean who ran second in the G1 King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Royal Ascot.
well she’s back!

That was pretty good


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 1:48am
Enterprising ride, made sure it was no tactical nightmare.

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 1:51am
Watching the replay on the big screen she was allowed to get away with a tactical affair. 🤔

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 2:23am
 Tactics had nought to do with the result. She always races on the speed and simply outclassed the second horse. Way too good and she's definitely on target at this stage for the Arc. 




Posted By: carche
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 11:11am
She's back. That was a decisive win over the brilliantly inform Crystal Ocean. Minus a pacemaker and without feeling the whip, she won by over three lengths. On target to defend her Arc crown.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 12:46pm
I'll leave it up to others to make up there own minds.

Of course John Gosden agrees with me.



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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 5:35pm
Again, I will leave it up to others to interpret Mr Gosdens comments.

My interpretation - 

He says in an interview with Racing UK that David Probert showed a lot of class in not jumping on us 6 furlongs from home and both horses had nice trials for the Arc. 

John Gosden was absolutely grateful a fully fit horse did not force the issue and make a proper 12 furlong race of it. 

3rd video in the article - 

http://www.racinguk.com/news/enable-returns-with-a-bang-at-kempton-to-set-up-second-arc-bid" rel="nofollow - https://www.racinguk.com/news/enable-returns-with-a-bang-at-kempton-to-set-up-second-arc-bid




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 7:45pm
http://newspaper.racingpost.com/html5/reader/get_clipping.aspx?edid=3ce1ed36-a5c2-401f-931f-7f29f6200a3c&pnum=2&timestamp=20180913084325242" rel="nofollow - http://newspaper.racingpost.com/html5/reader/get_clipping.aspx?edid=3ce1ed36-a5c2-401f-931f-7f29f6200a3c&pnum=2&timestamp=20180913084325242


Interesting take on the September Stakes. 


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 7:48pm


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 9:11pm
Thanks Djebel, sanity, common sense and an admission from Gosden prevail.

Thankfully the person who attempted to demean your earlier comments, which have since been so clearly validated, has taken leave to pursue other interests.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 1:46am
And now personal opinion comments are fact? I don't care if it comes from press or two self serving forum posters.  Your comments are nothing but puerile personal attacks Second Chance. They validate nothing and serve nobody but yourself. 


Let's actually withdraw all opinion and refer to facts only. The second horse has had five runs this campaign. Every start he trailed the leader. Every start he has made his move at the two furlong pole. He tried the same "tactic" on Saturday and was beaten. In ten previous starts Crystal Ocean had NEVER raced from the front. Why would he be well served doing so on Saturday? He doesn't sprint much further than 375m so why would he take on the leader further out? The last time he took up the running too early he was grabbed on the line in the King George. 


In most of Enable's previous runs she'd made her move just under 600m from home. She has more than once taken up the lead around 500m out and raced clear. Two starts back she had led all the way. Except her first race start she has always been outside or behind the leaders. She has a much longer sustained sprint than Crystal Ocean and is undoubtedly a stronger and classier stayer.


Which horse was expected to lead pre race on Saturday? Which horse has proven it can sprint further than 400m at the end of the race? 


As I've said before John Gosden is the supreme diplomat. He and Michael Stoute are good friends. Both are highly intelligent horsemen and know each others form backwards. They both knew how the race was going to pan out. Nether was there to send their horse out for a gut busting run. Neither was likely to break tactics just to try and beat the other. 


The opinions posted above are not and never have been supported by fact. They are nothing but another's opinion combined with the self serving interpretation of a gentleman's post race comments. Cut and paste of opinion is not validation, it's meaningless self gratification. 


I'll return to my holiday. It's a lot more fun than this ill conceived discussion. 




Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:23pm
Top racing in Europe last night and tonight. I didn't see anything to rival Enable as she marches towards a second Arc. Entries for the trials in France tonight aren't terribly auspicious either. Lah Ti Dar was a good second to Kew Gardens in the English St Leger but I can't see either being a serious threat at Longchamp. Lah Ti Dah displayed a lack of experience and will be a lot better next year if kept in training. 


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2018 at 12:08am

O'Brien and Moore faced a mad dash to Leopardstown following their Classic victory, with Saxon Warrior finishing a narrow second for the pair in the Qipco Irish Champion Stakes.

The trainer admitted there had not been much time to reflect on Kew Gardens' win immediately after the race.

He added: "I was watching it on the big screen and there was a lot happening, we had to get out of there very quickly!

"We didn't get a chance to look at any replays.

"We got a helicopter from Doncaster to Doncaster airport, then a plane from Doncaster airport to Dublin and a helicopter from Dublin to Leopardstown."


Seriously, this kind of stuff sounds theatrical and out of movies but i hope it doesn't end in disaster.

Not quite the travel Echuca to Flemington...




Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 2:27am
Enable goes back-to-back in the 6 million Euro Group 1 Arc De Triomphe at 2400 metres WFA. Enable is the best 2400m horse in the world. Great effort to win the Arc because she was only 2nd-up after a long spell out due to injury. She is a champion.
#backtoback2017and2018

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 2:30am
Dazzler and Waller should do a 4 year apprenticeship under John Gosden.

Incredible trainer.

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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 9:48am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Dazzler and Waller should do a 4 year apprenticeship under John Gosden.

Incredible trainer.


I agree - great trainer.

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 10:14am
I see Gosden said she was only 85% fit so my summation is that she's a brilliant mare who was able to overcome this, rather than the trainer being any great genius Confused


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 12:00pm
Yep the mares are ruling the world at the moment.  Are any of the overseas runners for the Cup mares?


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 8:13am
Headed to the G1 Breeder's Cup Turf (1 1/2 miles) @ Churchill Downs, Nov 3rd.

Currently some betting shops are offering 4/7on.




Posted By: Morston
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Brudder_A Brudder_A wrote:

Headed to the G1 Breeder's Cup Turf (1 1/2 miles) @ Churchill Downs, Nov 3rd.

Currently some betting shops are offering 4/7on.




....and she won

Magical was runner up and they were both a long way ahead of the rest of the field.


Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 8:43am
Winx has got nothing on Enable.

History made, first horse to do the Arc and Breeders double.

The hoodoo is broken, 8 have tried over 36 years.


Dettori was at his brilliant best.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:16am
Enable is clearly a champion.

However to compare her and Winx is akin to comparing apples with oranges.


Posted By: Nobody
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:17am
At 2400m you would be arguably right.  At lesser distances, you cannot put up an argument that Enable is better than Winx.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

Winx has got nothing on Enable.

History made, first horse to do the Arc and Breeders double.

The hoodoo is broken, 8 have tried over 36 years.


That's surprising, since the Breeder's Cup Turf is a second or third rate Arc. You would expect that if you can do leg one leg two should be easy. Only explanation I can think of is the races are too close and added to travel factor they can't back up.

Dettori was at his brilliant best.


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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:30am
Probably the case with advances in logistics and science. The horse probably has its own private jet. Probably is why we have so many internationals in Cup these days.



Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:43am
Enabled has to be pushed and pushed, a long way out.

Winx would be ambling alongside, jog trotting, hard held.
No horse in the world could match the cadence of Winx.
Enable doesnt do 14 footfalls every 5 seconds, its Winx that does.
And the heavier the going, the better the cadence of Winx.

It wouldnt matter who ran alongside Winx, on a scrap mudheap slogfest, Winx would just be happily skipping along hard held, running as straight as an arrow.
Enable would be disabled and get the wobbles.

Enable is a once in decade kind of horse.
Winx is a once in a century type of horse.
Big difference.



Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:58am
The fact they just keep on winning makes them champions.

I wish my wives had been as reliable as WINX.


Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 12:45pm
Winx would struggle to beat the second horse Magical. Most improved horse in the world.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 1:20pm
Enabled you have a superstar and we have a superstar.  Leave it at that.  You don't know she would struggle to beat Magical.  THey race in different hemispheres.  And Enable went to USA so why didn't she come down to meet Winx in the Cox Plate?  I know which would of been a great thing for both countries.  Winx is a seven year old mare and won't travel.  Well Enable has now travelled so it would of been great to see her take on Winx.

Otherwise we know what we have.  A horse which has done times no other horse has over a distance who has travelled well over 10,000kilometers over the years back and forth between Sydney and Brisbane and Sydney and Melbourne.  She has gone in both directions, missed the start been trapped on the fence and always come from the second half of the field.  No easy task anytime.  But with that she has won consistently for 29 times.

Enable is truly a great mare who is making history.  We have one also.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 2:03pm
How could one distance Enable and Winx ever race?


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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

How could one distance Enable and Winx ever race?


Over 2000m at Flemington.

Hope both don’t retire anytime soon. Enable was injured this year and had a limited prep. So to win the double 2nd and 3rd up is unbelievable.


Posted By: Redemption
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:48pm
Should be a match race in 2019 Autumn.

Flemington.

2000m

Winx verses Enabled.
Prize $10 million to the winner.
Free entry into Flemington.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 4:28pm
No Flemington seems too hard of the overseas horses.  Randwick is more forgiving.  It's a known fact that Winx prefers Melbourne way so that helps Enabled also.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 4:30pm
It wouldn't have to be a match race either.  We have the Queen Elizabeth sitting there.  Hopefully The Autumn Sun can come out to play also.  Would be a bit of a downer if he beat both of them but we just have to trust that the mares will be in form and if that's the case even in the Autumn it would be hard for him.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 6:07pm
The Autumn Sun won (albeit very impressively) the worst Guineas I’ve seen. The horses that ran second and fourth in that race were well beaten in the Carbine- usually a level below. He’s promising, but wouldn’t mention him in the same breath as the other two.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 11:40pm


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 1:57am
Is that Chantilly ???


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animals before people.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 1:59am
Newmarket.



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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 2:08am
Where abouts ? 


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animals before people.


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2019 at 2:45am
Resumes on Saturday G1 Coral Eclipse at Sandown.


Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 2:45am
Enable wins the Eclipse defeating Magical by about a length with Regal Reality in third place. Looked to be plenty of room for improvement.



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 8:18am
Good win by Enable. 2000m is not her distance but she did enough to win. Great horse.

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Lord Hybrow
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2019 at 10:46pm
She’s certainly scared off the opposition - only 3 rivals in the G1 Yorkshire Oaks on Thursday.


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2019 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

She’s certainly scared off the opposition - only 3 rivals in the G1 Yorkshire Oaks on Thursday.


Could of run in Wednesday's G1 Juddmonte International but that's a little shorter in distance plus the boyz (Crystal Ocean, Japan, et al) would of been ganging up on her.

Hence easy pickings in the Oaks but don't be surprised if Magical gives Enable a bit of challenge.


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2019 at 2:53am
Enable toys with her opposition and wins by nearly 3 lengths over Magical.
Easy £240,000+ for the connections and Dettori gets anudder G1 win.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2019 at 10:54am
She has a lovely profile also.  Very elegant mare who is supreme over there at the moment.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 9:48am
The bookies have had their say on that ultimately deflating Arc de Triomphe. A http://bookmakers.tv/" rel="nofollow - Bookmakers.tv spokesperson said: “Enable fever allowed Waldgeist to go off at a huge price in the UK relative to his form and he’s saved British firms a record Arc payout by picking up the mare in the dying strides.

“However favourable the result for the trading departments of the bookmakers, it’s a huge anti-climax on what would have been a monumental day for racing. Another win for Frankie and Enable would have lead the news bulletins at a perfect time in the build up to Ascot’s Champions Day and this highlights the risks of a one-horserace marketing strategy in such an unpredictable sport.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2019/oct/06/prix-de-larc-de-triomphe-enable-longchamp-hat-trick-live-frankie-dettori




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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 10:15am
Every time the champs go around this can happen.  Why do you think most of us were on tenterhooks when Winx was racing.  We didn't want her to be beaten by a lesser horse than she was.  I feel for the connections as she is a marvellous mare.


Posted By: jacko1
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 4:02pm
Interesting listening to them talk about how great it was to still have her racing at 5. I guess that's what it's like with stallions here, but with a mare you'd think they would race on a little longer. Look how good Makybe and Winx were at 7. Is it something to do with that belief that was around a long time ago that racing longer impacts their ability to produce good offspring? 


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 4:09pm
Winx basically had no competition.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 4:18pm
Irrelevant answer.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 4:24pm
If a horse virtually has no opposition to take him or her out of their comfort zone than obviously they are able to have an easier time of it and longevity is far more likely.

Enable has had serious competition right through her 4 and 5 year old seasons. It is obviously going to take a whole lot more out of them than beating up on lesser beings.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:14pm
Enable has raced just 15 times over four seasons.  Often against 4-7 opponents.

Winx raced 43 times over six seasons.  As often as not against more than 7 starters.

Both gave their all, so the quality of opposition is essentially a moot point.

The question posed was about the possible relationship between number of starts and later breeding success or otherwise.  Which implicitly invites comments about the breeding record of top mares with or without long or arduous campaigns.

Over to others for a while.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:20pm
4- 7 opponents.

With every one of them superior to anything Winx ran against.

Field size is totally irrelevant to class.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:21pm
Rarely did Winx have to go anywhere near to giving her all.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:36pm
#! irrelevant again.  Neither of them left anything out on the trackso the quality of opposition is a moot point.  Unless of course you maintain that Enable will have spent more or similar energy in 15 starts than did Winx in 40-odd. 

But more importantly you've singularly avoided the essential question asked.




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

#! irrelevant again.  Neither of them left anything out on the trackso the quality of opposition is a moot point.  Unless of course you maintain that Enable will have spent more or similar energy in 15 starts than did Winx in 40-odd. 

But more importantly you've singularly avoided the essential question asked.



Really sometimes you are a ........

Everything I have said in these posting is 100% relevant to what "the essential question asked" 

Fine, you and probably the majority disagree but that does not mean it is irrelevant to "the essential question asked"




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:52pm
If two horses try their guts out, irrespective of the opposition, they're equally f8cked at the end of the race.


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:55pm
Its ok, you feel let down. I get it.  The Enable bubble has burst, perhaps she was underdone from racing the girls in a soft lead up campaign. You know you would have been first on here gloating had she won. but she didn't.  It was a very weak edition of the Arc, no 3yr old fillies with there allowance, only 11 opponent's, horses like poets word, cracksman, crystal ocean, sea of class all missing. No genuine opposition at all. And still she couldn't get the job done.  Speaking of beating up on the same opponents over and over, how many times now has she faced Magical and Waldgeist ??  I guess Waldgeist must get a ratings boost to 145p on that run, beating up on such outstanding horses.
 


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 5:59pm
Just for the record, Waldgeist and Hartnell share the same timeform rating of 127, makes you laugh don't it.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

If two horses try their guts out, irrespective of the opposition, they're equally f8cked at the end of the race.

Winx whether you like it or not rarely if ever had to try her guts out.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Mr Lefty Mr Lefty wrote:

Its ok, you feel let down. I get it.  The Enable bubble has burst, perhaps she was underdone from racing the girls in a soft lead up campaign. You know you would have been first on here gloating had she won. but she didn't.  It was a very weak edition of the Arc, no 3yr old fillies with there allowance, only 11 opponent's, horses like poets word, cracksman, crystal ocean, sea of class all missing. No genuine opposition at all. And still she couldn't get the job done.  Speaking of beating up on the same opponents over and over, how many times now has she faced Magical and Waldgeist ??  I guess Waldgeist must get a ratings boost to 145p on that run, beating up on such outstanding horses.
 


It was actually a pretty strong edition of the Arc

 

YEAR
WINNER [DRAW]
AGE
WGT
SP
TRAINER
JOCKEY
RPR
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2019-10-06/736533" rel="nofollow - 2019
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/1132517/waldgeist" rel="nofollow - Waldgeist 
5
9-5
131/10
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/1093/a-fabre" rel="nofollow - A Fabre
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/88520/pierre-charles-boudot" rel="nofollow - Pierre-Charles Boudot
128
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2018-10-07/708553" rel="nofollow - 2018
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/1236333/enable" rel="nofollow - Enable 
4
9-2
EvensF
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/4336/john-gosden" rel="nofollow - John Gosden
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/2277/frankie-dettori" rel="nofollow - Frankie Dettori
122
https://www.racingpost.com/results/204/chantilly/2017-10-01/682788" rel="nofollow - 2017
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/1236333/enable" rel="nofollow - Enable 
3
8-9
10/11F
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/4336/john-gosden" rel="nofollow - John Gosden
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/2277/frankie-dettori" rel="nofollow - Frankie Dettori
129
https://www.racingpost.com/results/204/chantilly/2016-10-02/658201" rel="nofollow - 2016
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/865655/found" rel="nofollow - Found 
4
9-2
6/1
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/7978/a-p-obrien" rel="nofollow - A P O'Brien
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/79202/ryan-moore" rel="nofollow - Ryan Moore
124
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2015-10-04/630266" rel="nofollow - 2015
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/865306/golden-horn" rel="nofollow - Golden Horn 
3
8-11
9/2
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/4336/john-gosden" rel="nofollow - John Gosden
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/2277/frankie-dettori" rel="nofollow - Frankie Dettori
127
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2014-10-05/609604" rel="nofollow - 2014
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/820994/treve" rel="nofollow - Treve 
4
9-2
11/1
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/1139/mme-christiane-head" rel="nofollow - Mme Christiane Head
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/2452/thierry-jarnet" rel="nofollow - Thierry Jarnet
126
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2013-10-06/583120" rel="nofollow - 2013
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/820994/treve" rel="nofollow - Treve 
3
8-8
9/2
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/1139/mme-christiane-head" rel="nofollow - Mme Christiane Head
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/2452/thierry-jarnet" rel="nofollow - Thierry Jarnet
131
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2012-10-07/565093" rel="nofollow - 2012
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/769331/solemia" rel="nofollow - Solemia 
4
9-2
33/1
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/7148/c-laffon-parias" rel="nofollow - C Laffon-Parias
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/10162/olivier-peslier" rel="nofollow - Olivier Peslier
124
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2011-10-02/540406" rel="nofollow - 2011
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/763644/danedream" rel="nofollow - Danedream 
3
8-8
20/1
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/12816/p-schiergen" rel="nofollow - P Schiergen
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/10322/andrasch-starke" rel="nofollow - Andrasch Starke
128
https://www.racingpost.com/results/211/longchamp/2010-10-03/515540" rel="nofollow - 2010
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/742579/workforce" rel="nofollow - Workforce 
3
8-11
6/1
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/trainer/619/sir-michael-stoute" rel="nofollow - Sir Michael Stoute
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/jockey/79202/ryan-moore" rel="nofollow - Ryan Moore
130


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:15pm
Only if you over inflate the ratings and ability of the field,  there was one very good horse in that race that failed to produce on the day, the rest are fairly ordinary. The winner takes his record to 9 wins from 21 starts and has a rating = Hartnell


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:19pm
The two 3 years olds that made Frankie go earlier than ideal are very very good.

The winner has always promised that sort of performance.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:23pm
No over inflation necessary. In terms of the race itself, it was a pretty strong edition.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:36pm
I can identify at least 6 of Enable's 15 starts where she hardly spent a penny.But that's still a moot point in the overall discussion.

Some for example may identify Makybe Diva's ordinary breeding record as proof positive that a long career on the track reduces a mare's chances of succeeding at stud.  

But many more qualified than I have examined the relationship between longevity on the racecourse v stud success.  And the general consensus is that, optimum choice of stallion aside, it matters little whether a champion mare has had few starts or rather more.  

It's a hard gig: mares have between 8-10 chances of producing a superior racehorse throughout their breeding careers.  Stallions have hundreds if not thousands of opportunities to do the same. 


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 6:37pm

Had Hartnell won that exact same race you would be saying how lucky he was to run into such a weak field.  Bottom line she let her fans down badly and couldn't get the job done



Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 7:15pm
Why bring up a horse that hasn't run further than 2000m in 2 years? 

I mean, I know you're trolling and I'm just feeding but why not...


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 7:53pm
Its not trolling at all, simply pointing out a few facts that most Euro centric fans cant accept.  1) Enable raced the same fields over and over, just like winx did 2) This field was very ordinary, just as some of the fields winx faced were, 3) Enable had her pants pulled down by a horse rated the equal of Harntell, hmmm ok so that would never happen with winx lol


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Mr Lefty Mr Lefty wrote:

Its not trolling at all, simply pointing out a few facts that most Euro centric fans cant accept.  1) Enable raced the same fields over and over, just like winx did 2) This field was very ordinary, just as some of the fields winx faced were, 3) Enable had her pants pulled down by a horse rated the equal of Harntell, hmmm ok so that would never happen with winx lol

So are the ratings correct or not ?

On the one hand I get the impression you do not believe the ratings on the other you are using them as evidence ? 


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 8:08pm
So you just happened to post for the first time in almost a year in this thread specifically? Ok mate. 

And again, what does Hartnell have to do with anything?


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by Mr Lefty Mr Lefty wrote:

Just for the record, Waldgeist and Hartnell share the same timeform rating of 127, makes you laugh don't it.


That would be Hartnell's career high rating, not his rating now.


-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Winx basically had no competition.




Yep. Winx is a champ but she raced in a weak era of middle distance racing. No depth. I'm glad you identify this. It's time biased Aussie racing supporters take their blinkers off and realised this too

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Mr Lefty
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 10:46pm
Or perhaps its time Euro centric fans admit that she simply aint the horse they all hoped she would be. Pants pulled down by Waldgeist, says it all really.  Lucky he didn't have a charmed run or he would have won by 4 lengths running away. Speaking of luck in running had Sea of Class had any last year then Enable would be just another one time winner of the Arc. But at the end of the day you make your own luck, like winx did.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 9:32am
How did this ever descend into an Enable v Winx argument?


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 10:08am
This isn't about Winx this is about another mighty mare called Enable.  Djebel you are far too hard on Australian racing.  We are different but that doesn't make us inferior.  Just ask the Ascot winners from Australia.

Now Enable has reigned supreme over there for three years so justifies a top rating.  As I said before I feel bad for her and her owners as no matter how good Waldgeist was on the day he is not in her class.  His record says that.  But that can and does regularly happen to champions.  When they loose it is inevitably to a lesser horse who ran a blinder and they were caught out by bad luck or such.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 10:47am
Stays in training for next year.

-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2019 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Stays in training for next year.


Good news.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Brudder_A
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 9:48am
Won the G1 King George Vi Stakes for the third time easily in 3 horse field in the rain.

Started 4/9on should of been 1/50on.

Dettori 7th win in the race matches Lester Piggott.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 11:02am
Enable won easily, thats a 3rd consecutive G1 King George Stakes win...she did what she had to do. But Enable is beatable in the Arc in October...she is no spring chicken. Regardless...her career has been outstanding. A champion. 

#enable #kinggeorgestakes #royalascot #threeinarow


-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 12:17pm
3 runners in the premier pommy 12f race - disgraceful. 

-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 1:50pm
It can happen anywhere in the world. Its a shame from a spectators point of view but it does happen.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 4:34pm
I've never seen a 3 horse Cox Plate, which is what the George and Lizzy is in pommy terms.

-------------
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 4:39pm
The Cox Plate is a lead up race to the Melbourne Cup.

The George and Lizzy is a class above that nonsense.

Japan would win a typical Cox Plate. 


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 4:52pm
Three starters is disgraceful, be it a maiden or heaven help us a Group 1.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2020 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Three starters is disgraceful, be it a maiden or heaven help us a Group 1.

Remember the 2016 G1 Caulfield Stakes? Only had 3 runners in it. It can happen anywhere. 


-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2020 at 10:16am
One swallow doesn't make it Summer.  Happens almost regularly in the UK.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2020 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

One swallow doesn't make it Summer.  Happens almost regularly in the UK.

Really ?

Our racing management, if a race at declaration stage does not have enough runners, simply delete the race.

In England they keep the race even if it is a 2 horse race.

It is not disgraceful at all.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum



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