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Islam - Time to Push Back?

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Topic: Islam - Time to Push Back?
Posted By: Dr E
Subject: Islam - Time to Push Back?
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:28am
There is no question that Islam is the root of ALL terrorism in the world today ... denial is irrational.

Is it time for Western Democracies to take this crap head on, with our own "radical" responses?

Who is arguing with Trump's "Islamic Ban" right now?

Why are we not deporting people like Man Monis?

Is it THAT politically expedient, that we should just cop it up the ass from these Radical Islamic invaders???Confused

... or is PT right?


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!



Replies:
Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:55am
Who is right ? I'm not sure what PT's solution to the problem is but I don't think a strong hand will work either . Don't get me wrong ,you have to come down hard on the bad apples though .

I think terrorism has very little to do with Islam and everything to do with a racial and cultural divide in the guise of religion . The problem appears to be with first generational younger types inspired by racist radicals posing as preachers .
From all I've read and heard most immigrants are moderate and want to assimilate within their new culture and punishing them in any way by demonising the good citizens won't work .
How do you fix it , other than a 2 or 3 generational integration ? NFI .


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:33am
Start talking death sentences and removing the cause of the problem.
       ISLAMIC SUPPORTERS .
Yes , many Muslims want peace but aren't prepared to walk away from a cult of death to show us how bad they want to live in peace .

      The innocents who die at the hands of these radicalises madmen are more innocent than the hordes who proudly claim to be moderate Muslims .
   STOP allowing more into the country and remove those who preach otherwise.
   There is no middle ground and for those who are white anting Donald Trump ,   STOP and think how proud you are today , for supporting the very people he is trying to reduce from entering his Country.

A candle vigil is about all our weak Governments have to offer.


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<b


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:23am
My ''solution'' to the problem is to address the root causes of what motivates young people to think that they need to involve themselves in a cause and who it is that pushes them into it

This kid was born in England of Libyan descent and traveled to Libya in 2011 and was apparently greatly affected by the extreme violence there. Why was the Libyan revolution happening? 

The west decided a few decades ago  that tough neighbourhoods ruled by hard men that kept their countries stable and free of radicalism wasn't the desired model for us, and decided to change them all. Terror groups were born out of these so called revolutions. 

What is the motivation for destabilizing these countries? In every one of these internal conflicts going back to the Afghanistan invasion by USSR, you had the US engaging in a proxy resistance funding the push back. Every conflict since has been the same, one of the two superpowers starting or triggering the start with a pushback from the other. 

The result is cycles of civil war, power vacuums and resistance and terror groups growing from it. These groups draw support and recruits from people who feel a connection to either the country involved or a general opposition to the geopolitical games played by the superpowers and their surrogates(Iran and Saudi Arabia) using the subtext of religious wars as motivation to these recruits.

While large powers continue to do what they do, these wars will continue, terror groups will continue to emerge and these sort of inspired events in support of those groups will continue. Address the problem, not the symptoms


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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:37am
It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:44am
Wow...look at the depth and angst you go to when it involves the usa and other super powers influence and interference into the middle east and your muslim brothers.

For all other interference and ultimate death and destruction...you flat out applauded it for how it gave you a life of comfort, even rationalising it in your hypocritical gead by saying "we dont know how those countries would have turned out otherwise"

Btw...i actually agree with your assesment for the most part. but your selectivity and rank hypocrisy is off the charts.

and you can also condemn the filthy bastards who egage in the acts of terrorism on your confortable western soil. they are evil bastards too, yet i cant recall you ever commenting on their atrocities with an ounce of compassion or empathy for the victims. Oh thats right...you are an intellectual. they dont do that compassion stuff.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:51am
You agree but will just take the opportunity to attack me anyway....because that is what sad little people do.

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Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

You agree but will just take the opportunity to attack me anyway....because that is what sad little people do.


i pointed out your pathetic, sad, hypocrisy.

whilst parents and families are organising funerals, visiting hospitals and rinsing their kids hair to get pieces of human flesh out of it, i know your thoughts are with the 2 muslims being yelled at on the bus today.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:33am
census data from 2011 said abedi lived at fallowfield - 20% muslim population.

nearby suburbs - rusholme - 38% muslim. longsight - 54% muslim.

asssimilation or muslim enclaves. ....


Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:55am
The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 12:42pm
Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.


Good call. whilst the roots of the problem are one thing, and need a reversal....the fact is, terrorism exists all over the world now and is only getting worse. much more needs to be done to suppress it.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.



you talk sp much crap, you are no Einstein Confused


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.


ClapClapThats it, plain and simple, and exactly right.
Well said.  


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animals before people.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:10pm
It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.

To say that this simply is the answer is to say you have the answer to why 15 - 25yo males rebel against family and society and it's rules. Rebellious teenagers getting drunk fighting joining gangs committing crimes, punching each other to death killing people in car crashes driving recklessly is a male issue, not a religious radicalization issue. 

These groups target this age group because of their vulnerability. Australia is working hard with communities to help with this and it is cooperation with families and communities that keeps us safer than most Forcing people to come out and publicly denounce every action undermines that process and forces frightened people to not want to be demonized and stay quiet There is a reason spy agencies dont publicize every action they take


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Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.

I think you'll find our police have eyes and ears in the local mosques. We have had terror attacks prevented in Australia because of the great work being done with the muslim community by the various police forces. Most Australian muslims are peace loving people.

Unfortunately the Man Monus type cowards who pop up are on the fringe. He and his wife were known to police but were left in the community. IMO the law enforcers have their hands tied by soft senators and judges who protect these people and that needs to be changed.

In time we could end up like England or France. 



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I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:17pm
And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


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animals before people.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:18pm
PT's so called reasons for Islamic terror are half baked, selective, ignorant and wrong.
 
The problems with Islam are not created by the west or eastern superpowers. They may be compounded by outside influence by they are certainly not created by it. They are and always have been created from within. Tribal conflict has been part and parcel of the region for centuries. Africa suffers the same indignity. Too many divisions in society. The so called superpowers have largely been involved in the conflict for just over 100 years. Before that a few crusaders staged their religious war. The Turks ruled the area with an iron fist under the banner of the Ottoman Empire. They had more influence than any western superpower.
 
The real problems predate the creation of the Islamic religion. They have only been exacerbated by the emergence of Islam and modern times.
 
 
Since the creation of Islam divisions within the faith have been maintained along tribal lines. There are so many different branches of Islam with different beliefs. One mans talisman is another's sign of apostasy. One mans goodwill is a death sentence to another. Rumours and feuds have been fed over centuries causing divisions that have never been rectified. Before Islam there was Zoroastrianism and Yazdanism. Whatever the religion there was always conflict. For many from the region conflict is a staple part of life. Thanks to the internet, migration and media that conflict has now spread across the globe.
 
The terror groups have always been in the region. The so called tough guys never wiped out terror, they lived by it. When it comes down to it the terrorists simply enjoy better global and instantaneous exposure in 2017 than 1823. There is no easy fix.
 
 


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:21pm
id guess a major problem within the muslim community is identifying the 'radical' ones.

because what constitutes a radical muslim?

we know islam is a religion with many interpretations. the radical jihadist is probably seen as a devout muslim within the community.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


lots of reality in that. 👍


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


PT's so called reasons for Islamic terror are half baked, selective, ignorant and wrong.
 
The problems with Islam are not created by the west or eastern superpowers. They may be compounded by outside influence by they are certainly not created by it. They are and always have been created from within. Tribal conflict has been part and parcel of the region for centuries. Africa suffers the same indignity. Too many divisions in society. The so called superpowers have largely been involved in the conflict for just over 100 years. Before that a few crusaders staged their religious war. The Turks ruled the area with an iron fist under the banner of the Ottoman Empire. They had more influence than any western superpower.
 
The real problems predate the creation of the Islamic religion. They have only been exacerbated by the emergence of Islam and modern times.
 
 
Since the creation of Islam divisions within the faith have been maintained along tribal lines. There are so many different branches of Islam with different beliefs. One mans talisman is another's sign of apostasy. One mans goodwill is a death sentence to another. Rumours and feuds have been fed over centuries causing divisions that have never been rectified. Before Islam there was Zoroastrianism and Yazdanism. Whatever the religion there was always conflict. For many from the region conflict is a staple part of life. Thanks to the internet, migration and media that conflict has now spread across the globe.
 
The terror groups have always been in the region. The so called tough guys never wiped out terror, they lived by it. When it comes down to it the terrorists simply enjoy better global and instantaneous exposure in 2017 than 1823. There is no easy fix.
 
 


great read

ive said before...islam has patriotism along family, tribal, village lines. uniting under a national banner seems way too incompatible to many of them. and so we see the lack of assimilation in western countries all over the world. our democracy is incompatible withtheir interpretation of democracy.

somehow, they need to accept a whole new way of life when they migrate to places of safety and freedom. how.?? i dont know


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.



you talk sp much crap, you are no Einstein Confused

Wow, are you really that poorly informed?

Can you read, or are you just a parrot? ... try to educate yourself a little bit ... that is EXACTLY what they are trying to do.

“You are the future of Europe”: Erdogan urges Turks in EU to have at least 5 kids

  BY 


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 3:03pm
I thought Erdogan was our friend. Didn't Donny ring him to congratulate him on officially becoming dictator of Turkey after his rigged referendum, and didn't he host him in the White House last week to celebrate him?

Treason is a complicated thing eh Doc? 


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Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:17pm
Oh, so does that mean that Whale knows anything about what he is bleating about?

So Erdogan was "just kidding" when he said Muslims are the future of Europe?

So what is it ... too little or too much diplomacy from Trump, I can never remember with you, except that it is NEVER right!Ermm

As for treason ... ask Slippery Sam Dastyari for a "Muslim of Convenience's" thoughts on treason ... it has a price in the ALP, and it ain't very expensive ...Wink


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:20pm
I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base

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Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.
 
 
God, this is nonsense. They do, you just don't bother to acknowledge it. There was a protest of over 1 million muslims last year against ISIS.
The muslim council of GB have released a statement saying they condemn it in the strongest possible way. There were muslim cab drivers giving free lifts home to people after the attack, muslim doctors helping the injured, muslim people at the peace march yesterday.
These statements of yours are nonsense.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


lots of reality in that. 👍
 
 
No, there isn't.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:49pm
Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.
 
 
God, this is nonsense. They do, you just don't bother to acknowledge it. There was a protest of over 1 million muslims last year against ISIS.
The muslim council of GB have released a statement saying they condemn it in the strongest possible way. There were muslim cab drivers giving free lifts home to people after the attack, muslim doctors helping the injured, muslim people at the peace march yesterday.
These statements of yours are nonsense.

Where?


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base

All I know is he is the POTUS, and with that, the acknowledged leader of the free world, and that American and Australian Patriots alike, have always respected and supported the position ... until the current trend of bed wetting became popular amongst the unhinged irrational elitist Social Justice Warriors ... no finger pointing, just sayin' Wink


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base

All I know is he is the POTUS, and with that, the acknowledged leader of the free world, and that American and Australian Patriots alike, have always respected and supported the position ... until the current trend of bed wetting became popular amongst the unhinged irrational elitist Social Justice Warriors ... no finger pointing, just sayin' Wink

What about Obama?


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Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 

Wake up and smell the roses subbie ... anyone who can afford to get from the Middle East or Africa, and onto a boat to Australia is simply an economic refugee or a criminal. The true asylum seeker on Nauru or Manus is a figment of the left's imagination, they don't exist.Dead


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base

All I know is he is the POTUS, and with that, the acknowledged leader of the free world, and that American and Australian Patriots alike, have always respected and supported the position ... until the current trend of bed wetting became popular amongst the unhinged irrational elitist Social Justice Warriors ... no finger pointing, just sayin' Wink

What about Obama?

What about Obama? ... was there a lynch mob baying for his blood at every minute of the day, with no evidence to support their claims? ... don't recall it, did we have fake news back then? ... still respected as the POTUS, and allowed to govern (sic) ... he was just a very ordinary leader, and that will be his legacy.Embarrassed


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:29pm
I dont think he reported to the Kremlin though did he?

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Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:41pm
Is there any evidence that he didn't? ... wouldn't matter anyway, we weren't at war with Russia then, unlike now!LOL

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:43pm
I think we were dirty on them when our Tones wanted to shirtfront Vlad. 

 


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Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:55pm
... oh that's right, I almost forgot World War III ... as I recall, Obama did nothing then either. Pinch

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


lots of reality in that. 👍

 
 
No, there isn't.


Yeah, their is. you just dont bother to acknowledge it.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:


Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 


24 hrs after a horrific terrorist attack on little kids in manchester and your example of a disgusting human is dutton.

noted.


Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:56pm

The west decided a few decades ago  that tough neighbourhoods ruled by hard men that kept their countries stable and free of radicalism wasn't the desired model for us, and decided to change them all. Terror groups were born out of these so called revolutions.

On the money PT. Collective Western foreign policy in this region of insanity has contributed to the problems Europe is facing today. They throw billions of tax payer funded money to arm one side and hope they sort everything out. Sometimes if they're doing a bad job at it they'll step in or invent WMDs just to get their own troops on the ground.

The moment it appears it might be coming to an end one side will say thank you for the weapons and the training now get the fiddlesticks out and never come back.

Ultimately the West leave it in a far worse state than when Hussain or Al Assad were firmly in power and creates this vacumn for whackos to take over and for remaining people alive to despise the West even more than they had previously. Disaffected youth and young men of Middle Eastern background living in the West then have a cause celebre to feed on. Throw in some whack job clerics, add a bit of ISIS social media marketing and voila you have a ready made radical itching to blow themselves to kingdom come.

Leave the Middle East and its problems to the people whom live within it!!!! The West will always be occupiers in their eyes never saviours. It is ludicrous to continue to be involved.

Use the funding saved from engaging and arming to improve homeland security. Improve technology so ISIS can't feed the vulnerable through social media.

Be it cultural, ideology, tribal, religious, etc etc this region have been slaughtering each other for centuries and will long continue to do so with or without Western input.





-------------
It's only called gambling when you lose


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:04pm
Unfortunately I can see the West making another big mistake here:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/22/opinions/trump-iran-middle-east-andleman-opinion/index.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/22/opinions/trump-iran-middle-east-andleman-opinion/index.html


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:


Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 


24 hrs after a horrific terrorist attack on little kids in manchester and your example of a disgusting human is dutton. 

noted.
 
 
Sorry, what??? That is by far the stupidest comment of yours, and its an amazing list. You are allowed to talk about 10 different things in multiple threads, but I must only discuss Manchester.......you absolute weirdo......


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:30pm
Consider yourself fortunate Subbie.  At least you weren't called out as a "hypocrite".


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:30pm
A couple of things -
Yes Islam has always been split into (literally) warring factions since day dot. There's a reason why it was stupid for western govts to try to democratize the Middle East - it just won't work. You can't paper over hundreds of years of sectarian feuds and bitterness by killing people, creating power vacuums and installing puppet governments.


And there's another type of vacuum that the media and academics are afraid to even acknowledge, let alone talk about out loud - a moral and cultural vacuum in the "enlightened" west. The average westerner doesn't think about how decadent and wishy washy our culture has become in the last half a century or so. In fact they celebrate it. Islam provides people who don't like materialistic/ relativist/ egoist culture with a steady foundation and a prefabricated "identity" and sense of purpose. Ironically, the more pluralistic, "tolerant" and "free" the western cultures get, the more young muslims living in them will feel justified in radical ways of thinking. Especially in the age of the internet, where they can connect with others in the same boat. There's a reason why pop concerts and secular celebrations are targeted by these radicals, why western girls are gang raped etc. A lot of muslims regard the western culture as evil, and don't want a bar of it. (Even in Catholicism there has been a rise in the last few decades of what's called the "rad trad" type. They are usually insecure, insular, outsider types who are obsessed with the internet and obscure, backwards-looking ideas and practices. They can talk some pretty radical gelati too.)

There's lots of other factors, but that's 2 of the least talked about ones. So called racism and islamophobia are talked about as reasons behind the radicalised muslim youth problem, but in reality it's probably the other way round - THEY don't like US, and they simply don't want to adopt our ways. I don't mean that about all muslims or even most, but the problem is there for a lot of them, to different degrees, and maybe it would help if islamic spokespeople were honest about it.

As for "pushing back", I can't see it doing much good. Just adds fuel to the fire.

-------------
"She's going through a growth phase." - GW


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Unfortunately I can see the West making another big mistake here:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/22/opinions/trump-iran-middle-east-andleman-opinion/index.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/22/opinions/trump-iran-middle-east-andleman-opinion/index.html


again and again it happens, stroke his massive ego and he will do anything

The Trump administration, http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/21/politics/melania-trump-saudi-arabia/" rel="nofollow - seduced by an effusive Saudi welcome -- in sharp contrast to anything provided his predecessor, Barack Obama -- may be taking the wrong road.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:34pm

 
Sorry, what??? That is by far the stupidest comment of yours, and its an amazing list. You are allowed to talk about 10 different things in multiple threads, but I must only discuss Manchester.......you absolute weirdo......
[/QUOTE]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi956mUgojUAhVL4GMKHUwMDN0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyjunk.com%2Fchannel%2Fthe-jelly-school%2FEffects%2Bof%2Bfeminism%2B258%2FXesYLKr%2F15&psig=AFQjCNEsakiwJ0yJPLJW3KsEZyal8WHogQ&ust=1495697665820611" rel="nofollow">Image result for i agree with that


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

A couple of things -
Yes Islam has always been split into (literally) warring factions since day dot. There's a reason why it was stupid for western govts to try to democratize the Middle East - it just won't work. You can't paper over hundreds of years of sectarian feuds and bitterness by killing people, creating power vacuums and installing puppet governments.


And there's another type of vacuum that the media and academics are afraid to even acknowledge, let alone talk about out loud - a moral and cultural vacuum in the "enlightened" west. The average westerner doesn't think about how decadent and wishy washy our culture has become in the last half a century or so. In fact they celebrate it. Islam provides people who don't like materialistic/ relativist/ egoist culture with a steady foundation and a prefabricated "identity" and sense of purpose. Ironically, the more pluralistic, "tolerant" and "free" the western cultures get, the more young muslims living in them will feel justified in radical ways of thinking. Especially in the age of the internet, where they can connect with others in the same boat. There's a reason why pop concerts and secular celebrations are targeted by these radicals, why western girls are gang raped etc. A lot of muslims regard the western culture as evil, and don't want a bar of it. (Even in Catholicism there has been a rise in the last few decades of what's called the "rad trad" type. They are usually insecure, insular, outsider types who are obsessed with the internet and obscure, backwards-looking ideas and practices. They can talk some pretty radical gelati too.)

There's lots of other factors, but that's 2 of the least talked about ones. So called racism and islamophobia are talked about as reasons behind the radicalised muslim youth problem, but in reality it's probably the other way round - THEY don't like US, and they simply don't want to adopt our ways. I don't mean that about all muslims or even most, but the problem is there for a lot of them, to different degrees, and maybe it would help if islamic spokespeople were honest about it.

As for "pushing back", I can't see it doing much good. Just adds fuel to the fire.
 
Its not even a western v islam thing, Stayer. They have bombed weddings in Pakistan.
Might help if old mate Allah, or even Mo, came down and said, hey turdbrains, you aint getting up here by blowing people up and there aint no virgins left for you neither. Maccamax has beaten you all here......
 
 


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:08pm
I would not say no to sitting on the sidelines watching a war between Atheists and Religious fruitloops of all persuasions.

-------------


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:20pm
We should have banned them from coming here years ago. For every good one their is a dodgy one. Just stop it now before it gets any worse.

-------------
Give peace a chance


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:37pm
My dear old Dad, blue collar worker, ALP voter, western suburbs boy, seems to have had the answer 50 years ago ... 

"Bloody mad Arabs! ... they should just blow up the lot of them!".

Trouble now is, we need to send half a million home first ... I'll pay for the first 20 one way tickets ... who's with me!? Big smile


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

My dear old Dad, blue collar worker, ALP voter, western suburbs boy, seems to have had the answer 50 years ago ... 

"Bloody mad Arabs! ... they should just blow up the lot of them!".

Trouble now is, we need to send half a million home first ... I'll pay for the first 20 one way tickets ... who's with me!? Big smile


explains a lot about you


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

My dear old Dad, blue collar worker, ALP voter, western suburbs boy, seems to have had the answer 50 years ago ... 

"Bloody mad Arabs! ... they should just blow up the lot of them!".

Trouble now is, we need to send half a million home first ... I'll pay for the first 20 one way tickets ... who's with me!? Big smile
 
Happy to buy a one way ticket for you, Dr.  Save you the money for the others.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:


Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 


24 hrs after a horrific terrorist attack on little kids in manchester and your example of a disgusting human is dutton. 

noted.

 
 
Sorry, what??? That is by far the stupidest comment of yours, and its an amazing list. You are allowed to talk about 10 different things in multiple threads, but I must only discuss Manchester.......you absolute weirdo......


we are in an islamic terror thread, with the manchester terrorist act and kids slaughtered the most recent example, yet the ONE thing that has infuriated you is a lying politician in australia.

its quite clear to all....you sjw are fake dregs with the most appalling priorities.





Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:50pm
hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:51pm
Just replying to yours and AA's claims of what is and isn't reality. She brought up Dutton, I am allowed to respond. that's how discussion forums go.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:55pm
Come on guys ... I'm STILL waiting to be educated about all of the success stories of Islamic Migration ... you start subbie, you claim they are all legitimate ...

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up
 
 
Can't stand meaningless hashtags and thoughts and prayers tweets. Much like I cant stand you saying that people doing such a thing implies there is sympathy for terrorists.
So far, your solution has been blow them up or send them home. Good luck on the blowing them all up.
Don't think you will find one bleeding heart leftie that is against deporting known extremists, but that's not your end game and that's where we differ.
 


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.



no I have a lot of sympathy for the Manchestyer vicrims but there is a limit to the well. I used up a lot of it on victims of pervy Catholic proiests


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.

Why would you want to abuse two people on a bus regardless of what religion they are or aren't?

Cause that's what you do?


-------------


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.



no I have a lot of sympathy for the Manchestyer vicrims but there is a limit to the well. I used up a lot of it on victims of pervy Catholic proiests priests (rock spiders)


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.
 
 
Now this is just too funny. Dr E criticises people for showing sympathy with the victims via social media and Cabo criticises because we are now saving our condolences for muslims on a bus, yet somehow they both agree and think they have made salient points.......You two truly are pathetic.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up



they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.


Why would you want to abuse two people on a bus regardless of what religion they are or aren't?

Cause that's what you do?


there ya go...it hasnt even happened and PT is defending the imaginary 2 muslims already.



Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:13pm
I dont get why you would say such a thing like it isn't a wrong thing to do. Do you do it?

-------------


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

...


they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.   [/QUOTE]

Cabo, repeating an earlier out of context comment from your good self does nothing for your argument here.

Nor does the lazy "hypocritical" comment that you so much rely on when addressing others' opinions.

Maybe time to make a better case rather than fall back on personal attacks or pointless repetition, irrespective of the validity or otherwise of your offerings?




Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.



I agree but we need to draw a line in the sand. Support those that are here, help them integrate with both caring and tough love.
we also need to wise up and not bring anymore of them in......until things settle down


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I dont get why you would say such a thing like it isn't a wrong thing to do. Do you do it?


im going on past instances reported in the media after a terrorist attack has occured. maybe some people just get really angry and irrational when a terrorist blows up little kids at a concert. so some people vent at strangers in public places.

its wrong and misdirected anger. no, i dont do it.



Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.



I agree but we need to draw a line in the sand. Support those that are here, help them integrate with both caring and tough love.
we also need to wise up and not bring anymore of them in......until things settle down
Nice approach !

-------------
Give peace a chance


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by Sworn Revenge Sworn Revenge wrote:



Leave the Middle East and its problems to the people whom live within it!!!! The West will always be occupiers in their eyes never saviours. It is ludicrous to continue to be involved.






That's well and good until they started murdering innocent people because of their religion or colour and the everyone will be screaming for America to step in and save those people


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up


Seriously.

they are saving up their condolences for the 2 muslims who will be abused on the bus.

priorities. the real victims here.

thats club sjw cult rules.



no I have a lot of sympathy for the Manchestyer vicrims but there is a limit to the well. I used up a lot of it on victims of pervy Catholic proiests priests (rock spiders)



Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.



I agree but we need to draw a line in the sand. Support those that are here, help them integrate with both caring and tough love.
we also need to wise up and not bring anymore of them in......until things settle down
Nice approach !




Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:44pm
id be looking at changing the law around the granting of australian citizenship for new migrants.






Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

id be looking at changing the law around the granting of australian citizenship for new migrants.






have no problem with that but will it make a difference, certainly not to home grown terrorists ?

What changes would you make ?


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

id be looking at changing the law around the granting of australian citizenship for new migrants.






have no problem with that but will it make a difference, certainly not to home grown terrorists ?

What changes would you make ?


no, not much you can do with oz born nutters. but maybe have a clause where citizenship can be revoked with any acts related to terrorism.


Posted By: Baguette
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.

To say that this simply is the answer is to say you have the answer to why 15 - 25yo males rebel against family and society and it's rules. Rebellious teenagers getting drunk fighting joining gangs committing crimes, punching each other to death killing people in car crashes driving recklessly is a male issue, not a religious radicalization issue. 

These groups target this age group because of their vulnerability. Australia is working hard with communities to help with this and it is cooperation with families and communities that keeps us safer than most Forcing people to come out and publicly denounce every action undermines that process and forces frightened people to not want to be demonized and stay quiet There is a reason spy agencies dont publicize every action they take


Yes PT young men are vulnerable and lets face pretty stupid until the grow up and get some sense. I personally know a few who are going through the total idiot stage right now. The difference is none of them a likely to blow themselves up in a crowded place. And if I thought they were I'd do something about it!

And yes the Spy agencies can infiltrate Mosques and the Muslim community but the point I'm trying to make is they shouldn't have to. The Muslim community should be eager to get the radical animals and their philosophy out of their community. It's in their best interest after all.

Democracy is the best thing that has ever happened to ordinary people but gee if people are concerned and feel theyre concerns are not being recognised let alone acted on anything can happen. Look at the horror that is Donald Trump for gods sake!

I think Australians have had enough of political correctness and the complete refusal to recognise the problem. I don't want to see Pauline Hanson or someone of her ilk ever get real power in this country, but I can really see it happening!Which would be a very bad thing indeed.


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:40pm
Actually going by reports, there were not muslims offering free rides home, it was sheiks (or however you spell it).


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:41pm
A poll was done for Muslims in the UK, and only 32% would bother reporting anyone they feared was being radicalised. 54% did not want to intergrate to the UK life.


Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Sworn Revenge Sworn Revenge wrote:



Leave the Middle East and its problems to the people whom live within it!!!! The West will always be occupiers in their eyes never saviours. It is ludicrous to continue to be involved.






That's well and good until they started murdering innocent people because of their religion or colour and the everyone will be screaming for America to step in and save those people


And the Yanks should reply with " The Arab League are in a position to resolve the issues in their own region. We have learnt from our mistakes of the past and recognise that this is none of our business "

-------------
It's only called gambling when you lose


Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:


Actually going by reports, there were not muslims offering free rides home, it was sheiks (or however you spell it).


I think you are referring to Sikhs Einstein. The sheik was too busy sorting out James Cummings' Godolphin start date.

-------------
It's only called gambling when you lose


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:30pm
with 501 different interpretations of islam, good luck expecting the muslim community to clean out the radicals amongst them. what is a radical muslim??

just as a reminder, keysar trad said its ok to hit woman...and this goose is a moderate spokesperson for their community!!! how many sheikhs have said disgraceful, disgusting things, yet they are the leaders.

the term 'radical' may not even exist amongst the islamic faith. radical to us is devout to them.

other than knowing someone is googling how to make a bomb or buying chemicals from bunnings, i doubt they see any red flags.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:44pm
If the muslim community are happy to let keyser speak for them,   what hope of integration ??
Not to mention the bloke who said white women are just meat.  Who ask to be raped.
Those brothers who raped the girls some years back now , in the Bankstown area.  Their whole families supported them,  told us ad nauseaum what good boys they were , even tho they got long sentences and were proven to have done the crimes.
What hope of changing the mind set of these people with attitudes like that ??


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:10am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

hmmm ... right on queue, a lot of sympathy for the evil terrorists here, but still no solutions from the virtue signalling leftards ... sounds so familiar!Ermm

Have you all changed your facebook pages to say We stand with Manchester" and applied your rainbowfilters?Cry

Well done, problem solved!Thumbs Up
 
 
Can't stand meaningless hashtags and thoughts and prayers tweets. Much like I cant stand you saying that people doing such a thing implies there is sympathy for terrorists.
So far, your solution has been blow them up or send them home. Good luck on the blowing them all up.
Don't think you will find one bleeding heart leftie that is against deporting known extremists, but that's not your end game and that's where we differ.
 

"Known" extremistsLOL 

Remember the old saying?

"It's always the one you don't see that gets ya!"

Radical Islamic Terrorism ... it's like a cancer ... it's in their genes, it's in their teachings, it's part of the religion, it's their ideology, and it's just waiting for a trigger to set it off.

There is no way to stop it, but you CAN keep it out of your country. 


Again, I'm begging you, someone, anyone, tell me about the country that is the great success story as a result of their Muslim Invasion ... Ouch


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:33am
Of interest in Manchester, since the 2001 census, the Muslim population has increased by 127%. In 2001 the Muslim population was 66,000.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:48am
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

A poll was done for Muslims in the UK, and only 32% would bother reporting anyone they feared was being radicalised. 54% did not want to intergrate to the UK life.
This is the real problem, and the figures do not vary much in any western culture that is in the process of Islamic Invasion ... because it is what their religion teaches them ... lie to the faces of the infidels!

... and NOBODY wants to talk about it, least of all pussy footing politicians who could upset the most important voters in a marginal Western Sydney electorate, nor the Imams and other Muslim "leaders".

Look at Pauline Hanson ... she is crucified and labelled a lunatic Islamophobe for simply asking for a conversation about Islam.

Look at the Fake Sheikh - as the ABC and other left wing Islamic apologists have labeled him - Mohammad Tawhidi ... he is vilified, ridiculed and we are told that he is given too much credibility ... by Media WatchConfused ... for pointing out that we need to be wary of radicalization, and that much of the teachings of the quoran are out of touch, designed for ignorant uneducated savages who were killing women as part of the culture 1000 + years ago, and simply not applicable to a modern society, and how it needs to be reformed, and how Muslims should be forced to integrate ... all deplorable and ridiculous thoughts, albeit quite logical!Tongue

... and then on top of that you have the "Muslims of Convenience and the practitioners of Taqiyyah, like Waleed, and Sam, and Yasmin, and Kayser, who condone and validate child sexual abuse, domestic violence, genital mutilation, polygamy, homophobia, etc, but claim we are simply misinterpreting what they and the quoran say ... because it's complicated!!!Wacko

Who's being conned here?Confused


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:58am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

id be looking at changing the law around the granting of australian citizenship for new migrants.






have no problem with that but will it make a difference, certainly not to home grown terrorists ?

What changes would you make ?


no, not much you can do with oz born nutters. but maybe have a clause where citizenship can be revoked with any acts related to terrorism.


Well, duh.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:04am
So this guy was born in Britain, by all reports your average college educated, Man U loving young guy. Completely normal until he went to Libya with his family.
Why did he change? Why did he all of a sudden feel resentment to the country that took his parents in and gave him a chance at a great life?


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:07am
... just like the story of the frog and the scorpion subbie ... it's in their nature.

If you don't know the story, look it up.


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:09am
I don't think it was in his nature. I disagree with you.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:19am
It is an ideology that is taught to them, it is ingrained in them, they have no ultimate allegiance to anything or anyone else, it is in their nature, and it is simply awaiting a trigger.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:22am
It isn't. You really think that represents over 1 billion people? I don't.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:23am
And you can't say it's in their nature and then say it's taught to them.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 1:35am
So what is your explanation if it is neither taught nor in their nature? 

... and no it is not the case that "a billion" of them are a risk ... if you paid attention, and read the statistics that are quite easily found, and that I and others have regularly quoted from regular polls, it is accepted that it is only about 10% of them that are a real current risk, or 160 MILLION, and about 50% of them or 800 MILLION who are potentially at risk if Islamic Radicalisation ... hardly any really, since we have all posted on facebook, there is really nothing more needs to be done!

PS: 1500 years of repetitive, ingrained teaching and mindless preaching (praying 5 times a day) makes it a part of their nature, regardless of what you might think.


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:53am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

So this guy was born in Britain, by all reports your average college educated, Man U loving young guy. Completely normal until he went to Libya with his family.
Why did he change? Why did he all of a sudden feel resentment to the country that took his parents in and gave him a chance at a great life?
His parents have said they were worried he was becoming radicalised yet didn't report it to no one! He returned from Libya the day before he did it, and was heard continually chanting Islamic chants in the street the week before, he had also been to Syria numerous times.
 
What made him change? Probably a leader at his mosque. Still the want has to be there to do it, how else do you make yourself blow yourself to bits?


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:56am
Ironically, the attack happened on the 4th Anniversary of Lee Rigbys death.
 
Anyone know of any significance of the number 22 to muslims?
 
22-05-13 lee rigby
22-03-16 Brussels attack
22-07-16 Munich attack
22-03-17 London attack
22-05-17 Manchester attack
 


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 9:21am
The media I've read has predictably tried to portray him as either an evil inhuman psychopath or a normal english bloke who was disaffected by a visit to Libya... both BS designed to avoid any blame of the religion. Those who actually knew him simply say he began getting too much into the RELIGION after (?) encountering some other radical locals (and no doubt getting obsessed with the net.) I know we're all pluralist, tolerant, multicultural, PC etc these days, and that immigration helps economies etc, but surely it's time for more discussion with a wide range of muslim experts about what exactly there is in the religious traditions that these people can use to justify their disgusting acts. And to discuss why an Ariane Grande concert was seen as a legit targer in a war against western culture. All this "that's not real islam" and "religion of peace" and "we all just want to get along" with our "shared values" and "diversity" BS has surely had its day.

-------------
"She's going through a growth phase." - GW


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 10:02am
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:



that immigration helps economies etc, 


In some ways yes but in other ways, it trashes it.
Not sure where I heard it but something like more than 700,000 immigrants are on welfare. We've been told we have a major debt issue and a cut to this welfare would have the budget back in surplus in about 2 years.




Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 10:07am
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

The media I've read has predictably tried to portray him as either an evil inhuman psychopath or a normal english bloke who was disaffected by a visit to Libya... both BS designed to avoid any blame of the religion. Those who actually knew him simply say he began getting too much into the RELIGION after (?) encountering some other radical locals (and no doubt getting obsessed with the net.) I know we're all pluralist, tolerant, multicultural, PC etc these days, and that immigration helps economies etc, but surely it's time for more discussion with a wide range of muslim experts about what exactly there is in the religious traditions that these people can use to justify their disgusting acts. And to discuss why an Ariane Grande concert was seen as a legit targer in a war against western culture. All this "that's not real islam" and "religion of peace" and "we all just want to get along" with our "shared values" and "diversity" BS has surely had its day.

Very simplistically, but in a nutshell, they subscribe to Wahhabism, a literalist interpretation of the Quran, grown and exported out of Saudi Arabia, which it is important to note the vast majority of Muslims reject. From the "what ISIS want" piece:

His speech was laced with theological and legal discussion, and his exhortation to attack crops directly echoed orders from Muhammad to leave well water and crops alone—unless the armies of Islam were in a defensive position, in which case Muslims in the lands of kuffar, or infidels, should be unmerciful, and poison away.


Poison crops becomes blow up innocent civilians. In other words, given they consider themselves a state or Caliphate that is under attack (and pretty much the entire planet is lined up against them), then everyone is fair game, and they can find justification for it from their interpretation of scripture. 

Unfortunately, it means that as long as ISIS are around, we can expect this sort of stuff to continue.


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 10:09am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Unfortunately, it means that as long as ISIS are around, we can expect this sort of stuff to continue.


So they need to be wiped out immediately and that doesnt mean singing Kumbayeh


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:



that immigration helps economies etc, 


In some ways yes but in other ways, it trashes it.
Not sure where I heard it but something like more than 700,000 immigrants are on welfare. We've been told we have a major debt issue and a cut to this welfare would have the budget back in surplus in about 2 years.



Shouldn't read those clickbait Facebook links They are designed to get outraged people like you to click on themLOL

4.6 million Australians last year claimed some sort of welfare payment


-------------


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 10:25am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:



that immigration helps economies etc, 


In some ways yes but in other ways, it trashes it.
Not sure where I heard it but something like more than 700,000 immigrants are on welfare. We've been told we have a major debt issue and a cut to this welfare would have the budget back in surplus in about 2 years.



Shouldn't read those clickbait Facebook links They are designed to get outraged people like you to click on themLOL

4.6 million Australians last year claimed some sort of welfare payment


Is that a facebook stat that you just threw up?

either way

Both figures are too high and we know it.

Do you dispute the 700,000 or were you just joking?



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