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Topic: Europe thread
Posted By: stayer
Subject: Europe thread
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 7:19pm
This probably won't work but it might be worth a try starting a thread that's specifically for issues about Europe. Mentions of US and Oz politics only allowed if they're relevant to discussions about Europe (including Russia, and Turkey, and immigration from the Middle East and Africa... nah this ain't gonna work too well...)

I'll try to kick it off with a few random thoughts re the French election result.

1. Thank God Le Pen didn't win or come closer. It would have been catastrophic, especially in France and through France to the rest of Europe.
2. The fact that the major parties were rejected seems to be further proof of the growing distrust for establishment politicans in Europe these days, and is hopefully a positive thing in some ways, but a big warning sign in other ways.
3. The low voting turn out (for France historically) and the number of people thinking along the lines of the old French expression "it's a choice between the plague and cholera" seems to point to a country going through some disillusionment.
3. A third of the three quarters of people who voted, voted for Le Pen, and two thirds voted for Macron. If my maths is right, that means roughly half of those eligible to vote in France voted for "security" (with a young centrist EU bloke whose party is only a year old?), a quarter voted for a pretty Far Right revolutionary, and a quarter were too lazy/busy/tired/complacent to make the effort to vote. That might not be a good picture for the future, if you look at it in that simplistic way.
4. When you look at the voting stats, there seems to be a divide between the educated/ uneducated, the haves/ have-nots, the open borders/ closed borders, the EU/ sovereignty supporters.
5. It seems that Le Pen got a lot of votes from French people nearer the northern and eastern borders, where I'm guessing you might find more of a culture of nationalism etc because they like to distinguish themselves from their neighbours?



Replies:
Posted By: horlicks
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 8:39pm
The French parliamentary elections will be very interesting.

The candidates of the 2 traditional parties whose candidates were eliminated in the first round of the Presidential election both had specific problems apart from the general disillusion with the parties.

Fillon had major "corruption" charges hanging over him being accused of paying family members for little or non existent work and the Socialists have lust had Hollande as one of the most unpopular ever.

Maybe some (or many) of those who deserted them for those reasons may come back and that could make it very difficult for Macron.


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 8:40pm



Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 9:58pm
Good piece in today's New Yorker laying out the weekend's outcomes and future questions on the realignment of not only French but much broader politics

THE HUGE CHALLENGES FACING EMMANUEL MACRON

As Emmanuel Macron and his supporters celebrated his big victory in the French Presidential election outside the Louvre on Sunday night, you could almost hear the sighs of relief from other parts of Europe, and also from this country. After a long and fractious campaign, which saw the two parties that have run France for decades humiliated, and the far-right National Frontenjoying record levels of support, the center ultimately held. Which is good news all around.

 

Last November, it looked as if Donald Trump’s election, which followed the Brexit vote in Britain, might herald a wave of successes for far-right nationalist parties across Europe. That hasn’t happened. First in Austria, then in the Netherlands, and now in France, the spiritual home of European democracy, the extremists have been defeated in national elections. For now, at least, it looks as if Trump’s success may have marked the crest of a right-wing wave, rather than the upsurge.

 

In Sunday’s election, Marine Le Pen, the leader of the National Front, virtually doubled the share of the vote that her father, Jean-Marie, received in the 2002 Presidential election. But she didn’t get close to the forty per cent that she had breached in some opinion polls. Surveys taken in the past couple of weeks indicated that Macron would win by somewhere between twenty and twenty-five percentage points. In the event, his margin of victory was about thirty-one percentage points—65.5 per cent to 34.5 per cent. (This according to the French exit poll, which is much more reliable than its American counterpart.)

 

The endorsements Macron received from politicians of the center-right and center-left after he came out on top in the first round of voting helped his cause a lot, as did the critical coverage that almost all of the French media meted out to Le Pen. But, even allowing for these factors, the final result represented a stirring victory for a thirty-nine-year-old former technocrat and investment banker who had never run for office, and who only founded his independent political movement, En Marche!, last April.

 

In an address at his campaign headquarters, in the Fifteenth Arrondissement, shortly after the result was announced, Macron sought to project an image of himself as a sober and mature leader, someone fully prepared to enter the Élysée Palace. He also recapitulated some of the themes of his campaign, including his defense of liberal values, his support for the European Union, and his embrace of hope and optimism. “I will protect and defend France’s vital interests. I will protect and defend Europe,” he declared. He added, “It is a new page in our long history, and I want that page to be a page of trust and hope recovered.”

 

After thanking the outgoing President, François Hollande, for his services to the country, Macron said he would seek to overcome the divisions in French society that the campaign had highlighted. His main goal, he said, was to “calm people’s fears, restore France’s confidence, and gather all its people together to face the immense challenges that face us.” He went on, “I will fight against the division . . . With humility but with total devotion and total determination, I am going to serve on your behalf. Long live the Republic, and long live France.”

 

As this speech indicated, Macron is stronger on generalizations and appeals for unity than specific policy proposals. During the campaign, he pledged to cut government spending, reform the tax code, and loosen up France’s rigid labor markets—all this in an effort to make the French economy more dynamic. But he didn’t spell out many details.

 

On the French left, he is widely seen as the Gallic equivalent of Tony Blair, a youthful figure intent on forcing trade unions and workers to submit to the rigors of the global market. Skeptical conservative politicians point out that he served in Hollande’s Socialist government for four years, and that he promised not to scrap two pillars of the French welfare state: the thirty-five-hour work week and the retirement age, sixty-two.

 

It is unclear what sort of mandate Macron will have for carrying out his reform program. To a large extent, his first-place finish in the first round of the election represented a rejection of the traditional parties rather than a vigorous endorsement of his agenda. Hollande didn’t even enter the race because he is so unpopular. The candidate of the center-right Republican party, François Fillon, saw his campaign undone by a corruption scandal.

 

Similarly, Macron’s victory in Sunday’s runoff may have largely represented a rejection of Le Pen and the National Front, with its record of racism, anti-Semitism, and apologies for Vichyism. According to the exit poll, forty-three per cent of Macron’s voters cast their ballots primarily to keep out Le Pen. Although Macron’s margin was large, turnout was low by French standards, and many ballots were left blank. Clearly, lots of voters didn’t like either of the choices.

 

Much now depends on next month’s parliamentary elections, which will determine how much support Macron has in the National Assembly, which makes legislation. At the moment, the Socialists and their allies have a sizable majority. Macron’s En Marche! party is planning to field candidates in all five hundred and seventy-seven constituencies, but it’s far from clear how they will fare. Despite his personal victory, his centrist political movement is still young and untested.

 

There is also a great deal of uncertainty about what impact Sunday’s result will have on the future of the E.U. By removing the possibility of a Le Pen Presidency, Macron’s victory lifted the gravest immediate threat to the union: a deeply Euro-skeptic government taking office in Paris, to go along with the one in London. Even before Macron arrived at the Louvre, Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, had called and congratulated him. “She praised him for championing a united European Union that is open to the world,” Merkel’s spokesman said.

 

But one election result doesn’t mean that the E.U., which has just suffered through a lost decade in economic terms, can now mobilize enough popular support to survive and prosper. Macron supports open borders, free trade, free movement of labor, and greater efforts to accommodate refugees and assimilate Muslim minorities—all of which are under threat. His big idea is that, by showing that France is capable of serious internal reforms, the country will be able to persuade Germany to shift the E.U. toward a less austere economic policy, one more favorable to growth. Previous French Presidents have harbored similar ambitions that went nowhere in the face of Teutonic resistance. Can Macron do better?

 

But these are challenges for the future. Right now, it is enough to celebrate the defeat of right-wing extremism and to salute the victor. “What we have done, there is no comparison, there is no equivalent for that,” Macron told the cheering crowd outside the Louvre. “Everyone was saying it was impossible, but they didn’t know anything about France.” After he had finished speaking, the President-elect clutched his hand to his heart, closed his eyes, and led the crowd in a spirited rendition of “La Marseillaise.” Even from afar, it was hard not to join in.

 John Cassidy has been a staff writer at The New Yorker since 1995. He also writes a column about politics, economics, and more for newyorker.com. More

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-huge-challenges-facing-emmanuel-macron-frances-new-president" rel="nofollow - http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-huge-challenges-facing-emmanuel-macron-frances-new-president



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Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 1:37am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Good piece in today's New Yorker laying out the weekend's outcomes and future questions on the realignment of not only French but much broader politics

<h1 ="title" itemprop="line" style="border: 0px; margin: 5px 0px 2px; padding: 0px; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; text-rendering: geometricPrecision; font-size: 38px; font-family: "Irvin ing", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; text-trans: uppercase; line-height: 1.1; letter-spacing: -0.05rem; font-variant-ligatures: none !imant;">THE HUGE CHALLENGES FACING EMMANUEL MACRON</h1>
<div id="" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 16px;"><div itemprop="article" ="article" id="article" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; : relative;"><p ="Msonormal">As Emmanuel Macron and his supporters celebrated his big
victory in the French Presidential election outside the Louvre on Sunday night,
you could almost hear the sighs of relief from other parts of Europe, and also
from this country. After a long and fractious campaign, which saw the two
parties that have run France for decades humiliated, and the far-right National
Frontenjoying record levels of support, the center ultimately held. Which is
good news all around.<o:p></o:p>

<p ="Msonormal"><o:p> </o:p>

<p ="Msonormal">Last November, it looked as if Donald Trump’s election,
which followed the Brexit vote in Britain, might herald a wave of successes for
far-right nationalist parties across Europe. That hasn’t happened. First in
Austria, then in the Netherlands, and now in France, the spiritual home of
European democracy, the extremists have been defeated in national elections.
For now . . .


Macron has as much chance of forming a successful working coalition as his elderly wife has of getting pregnant. Overtaking FR, China is now GE largest trading partner and FR has dropped to 12th with the USA. Not to mention the societal problems facing FR with open borders, high unemployment, and liberal welfare programs. Countries like France, Italy, Belgium, Holland etc have historically been cowardly when faced with societal decision-making. Like the link says, the nationalist conservative movements have been stalled for now, but not stopped.



Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:01am
Emmanuel Macaroon is reportedly seeking counsel from Angela Merkin on how to successfully deal with the "alleged" asylum seeker problem that is currently ravaging Europe ... either that or he's getting tired of the missus, and is sniffing around for an upgrade! Big smile

Asylum seeker in Germany 'hurled a woman through a window because she refused to have sex with him'

  • Dawit A., 34, is accused of throwing 26-year-old woman Tirhas out of a window 
  • Tirhas says Dawit was drinking when he threatened her with a broken bottle
  • Claims he told her to lie down and threw her 15ft on to concrete when she said no
  • Dawit wept, saying life in Germany had been 'unfair' since he arrived in 2014


Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4476882/German-asylum-seeker-attacked-woman-sex.html#ixzz4gUlaApsy" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4476882/German-asylum-seeker-attacked-woman-sex.html#ixzz4gUlaApsy  
Follow us:  http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline" rel="nofollow - @MailOnline on Twitter  |  http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail" rel="nofollow - DailyMail on Facebook


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 10:32am
Looking at France and the US makes me damn glad we have the Westminster system.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:46pm
Trump is a constant reminder for Europe and the world what you get with one of these so-called protest votes, and what you get when Putin wins. Germany will be the next big test for the resistance to intolerance

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Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Emmanuel Macaroon is reportedly seeking counsel from Angela Merkin on how to successfully deal with the "alleged" asylum seeker problem that is currently ravaging Europe ... either that or he's getting tired of the missus, and is sniffing around for an upgrade! Big smile

Asylum seeker in Germany 'hurled a woman through a window because she refused to have sex with him'

  • Dawit A., 34, is accused of throwing 26-year-old woman Tirhas out of a window 
  • Tirhas says Dawit was drinking when he threatened her with a broken bottle
  • Claims he told her to lie down and threw her 15ft on to concrete when she said no
  • Dawit wept, saying life in Germany had been 'unfair' since he arrived in 2014


Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4476882/German-asylum-seeker-attacked-woman-sex.html#ixzz4gUlaApsy" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4476882/German-asylum-seeker-attacked-woman-sex.html#ixzz4gUlaApsy  
Follow us:  http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline" rel="nofollow - @MailOnline on Twitter  |  http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail" rel="nofollow - DailyMail on Facebook




poor Dr E, desperately trawling the internet for examples to prove what exactly Confused


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Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Trump is a constant reminder for Europe and the world what you get with one of these so-called protest votes, and what you get when Putin wins. Germany will be the next big test for the resistance to intolerance

"The resistance to intolerance."


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 8:05pm
Asylum seeker in Germany 'hurled a woman through a window because she refused to have sex with him'



One act of violence against a woman is unacceptable.
Lucky this is a rare cultural incident


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 10:28pm
Macron chooses EU anthem over French anthem for victory speech. Vive le copinage!


Posted By: jujuno
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Macron chooses EU anthem over French anthem for victory speech. Vive le copinage!

 bring back the guillotine...Confused 

 


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Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:21pm
Let them eat cake....or macaroons


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 2:31am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Looking at France and the US makes me damn glad we have the Westminster
system.
 
   That System that gave us ,  Whitlam , Rudd , Gillard
 
   Loved it when a friend said yesterday " the USA should have done something about North Korea more than 10 years ago "  
   Then proceeded to say " What a mad Bxstard Trump Is " .
 
       Hard to win in this world.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 2:32am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Asylum seeker in Germany 'hurled a woman through a window because she refused to have sex with him'



One act of violence against a woman is unacceptable.
Lucky this is a rare cultural incident
 
   We don't have enough windows down under.


Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 2:48am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Asylum seeker in Germany 'hurled a woman through a window because she refused to have sex with him'



One act of violence against a woman is unacceptable.
Lucky this is a rare cultural incident

 
   We don't have enough windows down under.


Politeness is a thing of the past. I remember when if you pissed someone off they just showed you the door. Thank goodness this incident didn't occur in a high rise penthouse. Besides sex with someone requiring asylum is probably over rated.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 3:19am
  Shammy ...         most asylum seekers looking from somewhere to go is usually West.
 
        AND straight into some sweethearts knickers.
 
  Maybe alcohol & burkas have been overtaken as the reasons for the ugly ones getting bonked too.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:25pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:30pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:52pm
The crowd there reminds me of Randwick, other than on five of its meetings each year.

And the fact the parade ring is there in front of the stands for everyone to view. 


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:14pm
Absolutely wonderful ....           Beauty at it's best .
 
      Raises more than my blood  pressure.                           (  my hat )


Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 12:07am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:


Absolutely wonderful ....           Beauty at it's best .
 
      Raises more than my blood  pressure.                           (  my hat )




Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 1:13am
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

The crowd there reminds me of Randwick, other than on five of its meetings each year.

And the fact the parade ring is there in front of the stands for everyone to view. 

Please explain ??  Confused
The parade ring at Randwick isnt in front of the stands for everyone to view ??
Where are you meaning ??


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animals before people.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 10:10am
Perhaps it would have read better as follows: the crowd there reminds me of Randwick, other than on five of its meetings each year and the fact the parade ring is there in front of the stands for everyone to view. 


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 12:56am


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 7:41pm
What gets me about the French elections is that everyone says it is a vote for steady leadership, but the point they seem to be missing is that the established parties were thrown out.

I guess it is alright to be anti establishment, if all the media love you, and pray for you to win!

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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 7:44pm
Alright how about the real issue this week. Eurovision. Seriously can not wait to see a dancing gorilla on stage. I think that is what The Voice is missing. Just get Boy George on a gorilla suit and dancing!

Woops sorry for trivialising European foibles.

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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 1:35pm




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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 8:20pm
Why is non-Anglosphere pop music so lame, so sappy and cornball?Sick


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 14 May 2017 at 11:13pm
Why do idiot men think anyone wants to look at their ugly ass  ??

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animals before people.


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 15 May 2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Why do idiot men think anyone wants to look at their ugly ass  ??


Same reason the likes of Kim Kardasian wants to show us hers


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 15 May 2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Why do idiot men think anyone wants to look at their ugly ass  ??


well I read somewhere the 1st thing women look at is a guy's ass

http://elitedaily.com/women/18-reasons-girls-will-always-love-man-nice-butt/1105435/" rel="nofollow - http://elitedaily.com/women/18-reasons-girls-will-always-love-man-nice-butt/1105435/


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Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 May 2017 at 9:42pm
Egotism in the case of both sexes Disapprove


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 17 May 2017 at 12:46pm
Here's one for Maccamax on the BBC press handling of hecklers. Be sure to watch the video -
 
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/may/16/bbc-presenter-slapped-by-woman-after-appearing-to-touch-her-breast" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/may/16/bbc-presenter-slapped-by-woman-after-appearing-to-touch-her-breast


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:26pm
If people think things are dire in Oz or the US, look at the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is still the main opposition to Theresa May in Britain. Times have certainly changed - old models of "them and us" are gone.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 20 May 2017 at 1:40am
That's supposed to be Russia's fault too Stayer.
 


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 20 May 2017 at 1:45am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Why do idiot men think anyone wants to look at their ugly ass  ??


Gees AA ,   Weren't you around pre SORBENT days .

The benefit of looking at my azz years ago was to read whatever part of the out dated telephone book that remained insitu .


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 5:53am
It's hard to get a post in this thread, when everything that is happening over there is covered in the Islamic Terror threads ... so here's one that isn't about Islamic Terror Attacks ... I hope our leaders talk to THIS guy ... he may be from the PiS Party, but he ain't taking it!!Cool

Refusing Islamic migrants is only way of ensuring security: Polish MEP


The only way to protect Poland from terrorist attacks is by not allowing Islamic migrants into the country, Polish European Parliament deputy Ryszard Czarnecki has said.

His comments follow an attack in London on Saturday which killed ten, including three suspects, and injured at least 48 others.

Czarnecki, who hails from Poland's conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party, said terrorist attacks were often carried out by children of “Islamic migrants” – many of them citizens of European countries – who were trained by the so-called Islamic State.

“Other countries have led to a situation in which those trained on Islamic State territory in Syria, Iraq – young people with French, Belgian, Dutch, British, German citizenship – return to Europe … and somehow [the authorities] were incapable of monitoring them,” Czarnecki said.

“We, Poland, are learning from the mistakes of others … and we will not open our doors to Islamic migrants,” he added.Thumbs Up

Czarnecki also said that recent attacks in the UK aimed to influence the result of British parliamentary elections, which will be held on 8 June.

Saturday’s attack was the third in the UK in recent months.

On 22 May, a suicide bomber killed 22 and injured dozens of others as they streamed out of a concert in Manchester, northwest England.

In March, a lone attacker drove his car into a crowd near Westminster in London, killing four and injuring 50.

Czarnecki advised Britain to remove “radical migrants”, saying: “If a radical Muslim leader calls his brothers-in-faith at the mosque … to fight with the unfaithful then I believe there are grounds to expel that Imam”. Clap(vb/pk)


http://thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/310243,Refusing-Islamic-migrants-is-only-way-of-ensuring-security-Polish-MEP



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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 7:09am
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

If people think things are dire in Oz or the US, look at the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is still the main opposition to Theresa May in Britain. Times have certainly changed - old models of "them and us" are gone.


Why is that dire? He offers something completely different to May. Isn't that the point? Offer up different parties with different beliefs and let the public decide?


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 8:00am
The right hate democracy Subby

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Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 9:08am
Would have thought my point was obvious enough even for you blokes - the choice of leaders is so bad that even a complete fool like Corbyn is the only alternative to Theresa May, who wasn't originally meant to be the leader of her party.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 9:25am
I thought my point was pretty clear even for you blokes. The people will decide who they like or trust. If you dont like the them v us 2 party system, I would also have thought Corbyn's policy over politics approach to this election would have appealed to you

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Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 10:19am
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Would have thought my point was obvious enough even for you blokes - the choice of leaders is so bad that even a complete fool like Corbyn is the only alternative to Theresa May, who wasn't originally meant to be the leader of her party.

Claim- Corbyn is "a complete fool".

Argument- ?

Evidence- ?


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 10:26am
Left = evil

Simples! Thumbs Up


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Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 12:24pm
I thought my point was pretty clear even for you blokes. The people will decide who they like or trust.
LMAO -  you're kidding right? The people of the US made a decision too. You've been railing against it ever since. You really need a rest. Joker!
 
 
If you're not up to date with Corbyn its no wonder with the saturation coverage of Trumpmania. Corbyn is about as ill equipped as anyone has ever been to lead a nation. Everything is on file and easily searched.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 1:25pm
You are entitled to be as wrong as I am mr Bear, and in this case you are all over that.

Checked the polls or betting lately? No 20 point gap now.  


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Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 2:37pm

Amber Rudd refuses to rule out further police cuts

The Home Secretary would give no promise on police numbers or budgets

  • https://twitter.com/joncstone" rel="nofollow - @joncstone  

The Home Secretary has refused to rule out further police cuts following a Labour election pledge to put 10,000 more police officers on the beat

In an interview on Tuesday it was suggested to Amber Rudd that she had made “no promise on numbers, no promise on budget”.

“We will have to see what comes out with the manifesto,” the Conservative MP told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“But be in no doubt that a Conservative budget will put security first and what we’ve seen in recent years is a protected police budget.”

20,000 police officers have been cut since the Conservatives came to power in 2010. George Osborne belatedly protected the police budget in the 2015 spending review.

Labour says it will fund an extra 10,000 officers by reversing the Conservatives’ cuts to capital gains tax.

But Ms Rudd dismissed the pledge and being “without credibility” and said the police Budget  needed to be kept under “control”.

“Labour’s proposal is totally without credibility, they’ve spent the money already that they say they’ve got for it several times before and they have no reputation on looking after security at all.”

Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott however said the police were “crying out for is more manpower”.

Speaking in Southampton today announcing the new policy Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn will say: “Cutting police numbers especially when there is more crime to deal with is unacceptable. The safety of our communities is vital to us all.

“Community policing means uniformed officers being visible, local and accessible. They engage with the public, have a detailed local knowledge and build a network of relationships

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/police-cuts-policy-amber-rudd-tories-conservatives-election-2017-labour-officers-a7712646.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/police-cuts-policy-amber-rudd-tories-conservatives-election-2017-labour-officers-a7712646.html



-------------


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 2:40pm
Hey do the British Tories get away with cutting police numbers? I thought they were the party of Laura Norder.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 2:42pm
Anders Behring Breivik


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Hey do the British Tories get away with cutting police numbers? I thought they were the party of Laura Norder.

They are. Like our mob they are until they realise the cost in monetary terms, kiss the cost in life and liberty.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 9:01pm
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/809779/Poland-prime-minister-Beata-Szyd-o-rage-Europe-EU-leaders-Manchester-bombing/amp" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/809779/Poland-prime-minister-Beata-Szyd-o-rage-Europe-EU-leaders-Manchester-bombing/amp


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 9:14pm
Poland, like Hungary are right wing govts that have rejected taking any Syrian refugees. Remember the carry on locking borders and brutalising refugees last year? No surprise these grubs are politicizing the Manchester tragedy, as Trump did.

-------------


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 10:50pm
Well !  Maybe Brooke was right about Hungary after all Wink
A few more govnts should follow their lead.
Too late for ours.  The rot has already set in here .


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 11:30pm
Geez AA, dont mention Bankstown. It will just set Doc off, and he is in enough trouble with Gay Shocked

-------------


Posted By: Shammy Davis
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Why do idiot men think anyone wants to look at their ugly ass  ??


well I read somewhere the 1st thing women look at is a guy's ass

http://elitedaily.com/women/18-reasons-girls-will-always-love-man-nice-butt/1105435/" rel="nofollow - http://elitedaily.com/women/18-reasons-girls-will-always-love-man-nice-butt/1105435/
You know this from personal experience? Can't help but think you would be the center of attention in a room full of ladies.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 1:32am
Maybe bimbos look at men,s asses.  No brain no pain.    Tho these days you cant really tell,  whats worth looking at,  with all the gear showing bike parking cracks etc.
I would prefer to admire a decent ass on a good horse.Thumbs Up





-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 1:33am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Geez AA, dont mention Bankstown. It will just set Doc off, and he is in enough trouble with Gay Shocked

Confused  Umm,   I didnt mention Bankstown.  You did  ???   Why ???


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 1:48am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Poland, like Hungary are right wing govts that have rejected taking any Syrian refugees. Remember the carry on locking borders and brutalising refugees last year? No surprise these grubs are politicizing the Manchester tragedy, as Trump did.

What did you think of that awful Radical Islamic Terror Attack in Warsaw? ... oh that's right THERE WASN'T ONE!!!Embarrassed


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 1:52am
hmmm, is it a coincidence that Muslims make up less than 0.1% of the population in Warsaw ... do the math PT ... thoughts?

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 2:09am
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


I thought my point was pretty clear even for you blokes. The people will decide who they like or trust.
LMAO -  you're kidding right? The people of the US made a decision too. You've been railing against it ever since. You really need a rest. Joker!
 
 
If you're not up to date with Corbyn its no wonder with the saturation coverage of Trumpmania. Corbyn is about as ill equipped as anyone has ever been to lead a nation. Everything is on file and easily searched.


Lol, surely I haven't just read a paragraph where you call Corbyn as ill equipped as anyone to lead a nation in the same paragraph as you mention Trump.....


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 12:05pm
The Daily Mail and Sun attack on Corbyn has been despicable. UK tabloids have always been poor, but they keep lowering the bar. Must be rather worried he will poll well.....


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 1:18pm
Daily Mail and Sun....critical links in Russian/RWNJ chain of disinformation



-------------


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:52pm
Thought you were a centris, PT? Corbyn is a hard left fruitloop. Sad to see a young brit interviewed on the street today zealously say he's votung for corbyn because he represents "full on socialism." He's just the product of his education. Sad.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:55pm
What are the realistic chances outside Corbyn and May? No brainer 

-------------


Posted By: stayer
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 8:05pm
Should be simple for you - May.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 9:10pm
Fake or not I think this is quite funny Big smile

Sadiq Khan’s Anti-Trump Attitude Gets DESTROYED By Queen Elizabeth… Media SHOCKED



Queen Elizabeth is not putting up with Sadiq Khan’s rhetoric — and the media isn’t saying a word about it.

While the far-left London mayor petitioned to have President Donald Trump’s UK visit cancelled, the Queen put his trivial outrage aside and invited the U.S. commander-in-chief anyway.

Breitbart http://archive.is/siP50" rel="nofollow - reports :

On Monday, Press Secretary Sean Spicer confirmed that President Donald Trump’s UK visit was still on — and that he was personally invited by Queen Elizabeth.

“[The president] appreciates Her Majesty’s gracious invitation,” Spicer stated.

Khan said there was “no reason to be alarmed” by an increased police presence in London following yet another terror attack on Saturday on the London Bridge.

Trump tweeted about the mayor’s seemingly incongruous remark about the police presence in London following the attack.

“Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his ‘no reason to be alarmed’ statement,” Trump tweeted on Monday. “MSM is working hard to sell it!”



-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:25am


-------------


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Fake or not I think this is quite funny Big smile

Sadiq Khan’s Anti-Trump Attitude Gets DESTROYED By Queen Elizabeth… Media SHOCKED



Queen Elizabeth is not putting up with Sadiq Khan’s rhetoric — and the media isn’t saying a word about it.

While the far-left London mayor petitioned to have President Donald Trump’s UK visit cancelled, the Queen put his trivial outrage aside and invited the U.S. commander-in-chief anyway.

Breitbart http://archive.is/siP50" rel="nofollow - reports :

On Monday, Press Secretary Sean Spicer confirmed that President Donald Trump’s UK visit was still on — and that he was personally invited by Queen Elizabeth.

“[The president] appreciates Her Majesty’s gracious invitation,” Spicer stated.

Khan said there was “no reason to be alarmed” by an increased police presence in London following yet another terror attack on Saturday on the London Bridge.

Trump tweeted about the mayor’s seemingly incongruous remark about the police presence in London following the attack.

“Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his ‘no reason to be alarmed’ statement,” Trump tweeted on Monday. “MSM is working hard to sell it!”


How come when you Google queen invites trump only wacko sites come up? Nothing remotely like a reputable site I could find- not even Fox News.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:34am
That is how fake news works

-------------


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

That is how fake news works

They should be teaching the kids how to recognise a wacko fake news site in school. It's not hard- they stink.Pig




Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:43am
Education is the best defense if they can't get Facebook to police it better. But why would Facebook stop it? Their business model is built on networking and clicking and these stories get clicks.

-------------


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:52am




-------------


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 10:57am
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Should be simple for you - May.


Tough morning for you......#teamcorbyn


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

That is how fake news works


They should be teaching the kids how to recognise a wacko fake news site in school. It's not hard- they stink.Pig




Stayer could do it, but doesn't suit his agenda.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 11:12am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Should be simple for you - May.


Tough morning for you......#teamcorbyn

The world is screaming out for the sensible centre. The reign of terror of the loony right is crumbling under it's own arrogance 


-------------


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:03pm
Also this vote is proof people, especially youth, are sick and tired of being told what to do and how to vote by old people.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:15pm
Both clueless as usual.  UK is an aging population. The swing in the vote is coming from an older section of the community after the Conservatives scored another own goal via the announcement of the so called dementia tax.
 
Stick to Trump. At least you have a vague idea of what's going on there.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:21pm
You seriously have no idea. Kinda funny though.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:29pm
Corbyn now into bookies fav to be PM. Wow.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:32pm

Is that all you've got you empty little vessel? If you don't know the facts stop guessing.

 
Seriously. Try harder. Perhaps try to keep telling the world what a great person you are while you fly around on polluting jets and drive your environment busting bus for a living.
 
 
You really do take self loathing and self interest to a new level.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:32pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-students-turn-out-jeremy-corbyn-labour-liberal-democrats-nick-clegg-tuition-fees-a7717856.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-students-turn-out-jeremy-corbyn-labour-liberal-democrats-nick-clegg-tuition-fees-a7717856.html


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:34pm
Get on Twitter (where young people are) and search Corbyn and youth vote.
Insane to dismiss it.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

Is that all you've got you empty little vessel? If you don't know the facts stop guessing.

 
Seriously. Try harder. Perhaps try to keep telling the world what a great person you are while you fly around on polluting jets and drive your environment busting bus for a living.
 
 
You really do take self loathing and self interest to a new level.


Environment busting bus. Lol. I get 20 people on my bus. Saves 10 cars driving the GOR. I take a holiday once a year. Nice try though.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 12:56pm
The "Dementia" tax will certainly be playing a role in this result. The wealthy and middle class can see their inheritance going down the drain.  

Hopefully the Youth have answered the calling as well.

Could well be that you are both correct. 


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 1:01pm
A gerontocracy? Yer, that is just what they are screaming out for. macca PM 

-------------


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 1:11pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 1:12pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

Is that all you've got you empty little vessel? If you don't know the facts stop guessing.

 
Seriously. Try harder. Perhaps try to keep telling the world what a great person you are while you fly around on polluting jets and drive your environment busting bus for a living.
 
 
You really do take self loathing and self interest to a new level.




Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 4:30pm
Britain could end up with PM Boris after the dust has settled from this total rejection of Neo-Liberalism today.

If Boris is the answer, it a sh*t question that has been asked


-------------


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 5:01pm
Hung Parliament formally called in Britain....let chaos reign

-------------


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

Both clueless as usual.  UK is an aging population. The swing in the vote is coming from an older section of the community after the Conservatives scored another own goal via the announcement of the so called dementia tax.
 
Stick to Trump. At least you have a vague idea of what's going on there.

Soooooo wrong. Biggest swing in London with ReBrexits putting their own goal right. 


-------------


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

Is that all you've got you empty little vessel? If you don't know the facts stop guessing.

 
Seriously. Try harder. Perhaps try to keep telling the world what a great person you are while you fly around on polluting jets and drive your environment busting bus for a living.
 
 
You really do take self loathing and self interest to a new level.



you nonsensical insults are very sad, an indication of a troubled mind


-------------
Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:04pm
ThreeBears do you repair sub's bus ?  I would be very careful sub he will cut the brake cable Ouch

-------------
Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

Is that all you've got you empty little vessel? If you don't know the facts stop guessing.

 
Seriously. Try harder. Perhaps try to keep telling the world what a great person you are while you fly around on polluting jets and drive your environment busting bus for a living.
 
 
You really do take self loathing and self interest to a new level.



you nonsensical insults are very sad, an indication of a troubled mind



-------------
I started with nothing and still have most of it left


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:09pm
Corbyn saying this election shows britain have had enough of austerity politics...cuts to health, cuts to schools, and not giving young people a fair go.

spot on!

*not he didnt say anything about feminism, gays, lesbians, transgenders, islamophobia, white racists (the only racists) , white supremacy and unisex toilets in pre school.





Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:10pm
Hey Scamanda,

 always happy to open the door for obvious , unoriginal retorts like yours Thumbs Up

-------------
Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m


Posted By: BlackKnight
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Fake or not I think this is quite funny Big smile

Sadiq Khan’s Anti-Trump Attitude Gets DESTROYED By Queen Elizabeth… Media SHOCKED



Queen Elizabeth is not putting up with Sadiq Khan’s rhetoric — and the media isn’t saying a word about it.

While the far-left London mayor petitioned to have President Donald Trump’s UK visit cancelled, the Queen put his trivial outrage aside and invited the U.S. commander-in-chief anyway.

Breitbart http://archive.is/siP50" rel="nofollow - reports :

On Monday, Press Secretary Sean Spicer confirmed that President Donald Trump’s UK visit was still on — and that he was personally invited by Queen Elizabeth.

“[The president] appreciates Her Majesty’s gracious invitation,” Spicer stated.

Khan said there was “no reason to be alarmed” by an increased police presence in London following yet another terror attack on Saturday on the London Bridge.

Trump tweeted about the mayor’s seemingly incongruous remark about the police presence in London following the attack.

“Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his ‘no reason to be alarmed’ statement,” Trump tweeted on Monday. “MSM is working hard to sell it!”


The MSM are not saying a word about it because it didn't happen.

Trump was invited to the UK for a State Visit by its government, not by the Queen, in February.


Posted By: Passing Through
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 6:55pm
Theresa May awaiting the results in her Maidenhead seat, alongside rivals Elmo and Lord Bucket-head Democracy is a truly beautiful thing



-------------


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 7:01pm
waiting for Dr E to triumphantly say the people voted against her and I identify with that, even though he is conservative, being a "man of the people " Trumps that


where is the clownface icon ?


-------------
Victor Orban 1.74 m, Michael Bloomberg 1.73 m, Emmanual Macron 1.77 m, George Soros 1.8 m



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