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Redkirk Warrior

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Racing - Public Forums
Forum Name: Racing Forum
Forum Description: General discussion about thoroughbred horse racing
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=58749
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 5:22am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Redkirk Warrior
Posted By: deejays destiny
Subject: Redkirk Warrior
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 11:05pm
Off the track the whole way to be just beaten first run in Aus

Will win a nice race this prep but back him next run he'll get the cash



Replies:
Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 11:41pm
Long lay off, produced first up by Hayes on Manikato night in 1200m race (well short of his best - winner at 2000m), he sits off the pace and 4 deep with no cover, absolutely trots up to the speed round the turn, lengthens nice and gets done on the post by Sir Bacchus who was fit well and in form.

He's unbeaten second up and goes to 1400m on Saturday which will suit. He draws 2 (bias unknown if any at this stage) which should see him given run of the race, meets Santa Ana Lane only 0.5kg worse off and, although SAL looked a moral beat at MV, he does that all the time and is sure to find another way to get beat.

Ulmann was good at WFA behind a smart horse, albeit well beaten. Suited back to this grade but has been racing for 4 months this prep. Does he have any wins left? Demonstrate is unders and a lay. Has been winning weak races and meets a strong group here.

$6.5/$2.25 for Redkirk Warrior taken. Feels a great each way bet to me.


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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 2:35pm
He was set for a first up win at the Valley. Stable truck loaded the horse, including David, and were furious with Damien Lane's ride, hence the jockey change.
Always hesitant to go again after they miss on a 1st up kill, especially on a horse that is looking for more ground.
Will be interesting what happens with the market tomorrow


Posted By: SYT
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 2:40pm
Nice insight sub... cheers

Sunline I blackbooked this horse after his first up run and keen to bet up as well, I just don't know whats going on with Demostrate as if he comes out I don't want to be getting crazy deductions... I'm hoping he races as I think he is under the odds as well.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 7:43am
Scratched!


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 8:38am
Haha after all that.

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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: JoanFerguson
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 10:23am
Was set for a big collect in the get out too


Posted By: deejays destiny
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 1:05pm
Off for a rest to get ready for some g1 races in autumn
Hayes really likes him


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 1:06pm
Will be a special in the St George.

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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: deejays destiny
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 1:09pm
Aiming at the Australian Cup
Apparently going to talk to the owner as a slight possibility of going to the $1million WA Group 1 in 3 weeks. David will prefer not to go but owner will have the final decision


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 11:55pm
Interesting. The plan was always to go to WA, but he may be a bit better than they thought......


Posted By: JattSta
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 11:26pm
Only had the 2 runs here. A 3rd run cant possibly do any damage can it? This horse looks a beauty, maybe preparing for autmn not such a bad idea.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 12:50am
The travel would be an issue, especially if it's an afterthought. Some carriers use an open top box, which is how Trust In A Gust ended up getting strung up by the lunchbox prior to the 10,000/Straddy a few years back... not that that trip was an afterthought.

Add to the fact that the race is no walk in the park.


Posted By: deejays destiny
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2017 at 3:57pm
Something special this horse


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2017 at 7:59pm
Will cop a penalty going into the Doncaster ...... But will carry no more then 52.5 kg !! Currently 15/1 ......... I just smashed it !! 


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 2:08am
Great get AdaHunta!Clap

Never heard of him before, but I just love the name of the sire - Notnowcato - named by a Peter Sellers/Pink Panther fan for sure (who isn't!?)!!!Big smile

https://youtu.be/jw1f94dx4xo

Curious to know the story behind it, no other giveaways in the breeding that struck me ...?Confused 


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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 2:12am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Great get AdaHunta!Clap

Never heard of him before, but I just love the name of the sire - Notnowcato - named by a Peter Sellers/Pink Panther fan for sure (who isn't!?)!!!Big smile

https://youtu.be/jw1f94dx4xo

Curious to know the story behind it, no other giveaways in the breeding that struck me ...?Confused 

LOLLOLLOL ... just realised that link was in ITALIAN without subtitles ... not that I'm racist!

try this for laughs ...

https://youtu.be/m1HklglWVZs


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Nick
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 10:59am
Star!


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 11:16am
Easy to say now but I have serious consideration to backing him only to fall into my long held belief that you can't win this race first up - convinced myself the day Paratroopers ran a long way off them when first up.

Really like this horse. Should be unbeaten here. Goes great up to 2000m. He's going to be hard to beat this prep in anything he contests.

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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: Delta Deel
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 1:33pm
I wonder if he ran well Hayes would back him up into the QE? Could be a half decent race if
Winx
Hartnell
Tosen Stardom
Humidor
Redkirk Warrior
Spectroscope (maybe a handy horse)

All made it there fit and healthy.

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https://group1selections.wordpress.com/


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 1:35pm
Hayes has always said he will peak at 2000m so I was thinking the same thing. Reckon you'll see him there, albeit a huge ask after kicking off just now in a Newmarket.

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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: crooked_gambler
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 1:38pm
Apparently going straight to the Doncaster


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Posted By: Delta Deel
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 1:40pm
Agree Sunline but as someone pointed out earlier these bigger stables with private operations can now have match races at home to get their horses race fit before they even bring them to the track.

I saw some private footage a couple of years ago of Llyod Williams watching 8 of his horses gallop against each other a week before 2 went around. It was fair dinkum a proper race. Yet in the formbook you read 1st up for 12 months!!

So hard to know just how fit this bloke was yesterday.

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https://group1selections.wordpress.com/


Posted By: crooked_gambler
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Delta Deel Delta Deel wrote:

Agree Sunline but as someone pointed out earlier these bigger stables with private operations can now have match races at home to get their horses race fit before they even bring them to the track.

I saw some private footage a couple of years ago of Llyod Williams watching 8 of his horses gallop against each other a week before 2 went around. It was fair dinkum a proper race. Yet in the formbook you read 1st up for 12 months!!

So hard to know just how fit this bloke was yesterday.


DK weir is the same down at the bush trials, he sometimes has over 100 trialling. Fields of 10 and he might have 8 or 9 in the field.
The stayers normally trial nice and quiet early in the day, then the last couple of trials they are given a proper 'race' trial.

Works a treat..


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This space has been intentionally left blank


Posted By: Sneck
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Delta Deel Delta Deel wrote:

I wonder if he ran well Hayes would back him up into the QE? Could be a half decent race if
Winx
Hartnell
Tosen Stardom
Humidor
Redkirk Warrior
Spectroscope (maybe a handy horse)

All made it there fit and healthy.
Why wouldn't they? Seems logical to back up if horse pulls up well out of a good Doncaster performance.


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 5:29pm
ill take a bet with you now Delta ~ Redkirk Warrior will beat Hartnell home in whatever race they contest together !! .............. are u down ? since u rate Hartnell the second best horse in the country I can't see why u wouldn't !! LOL


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by AdaHunta AdaHunta wrote:

ill take a bet with you now Delta ~ Redkirk Warrior will beat Hartnell home in whatever race they contest together !! .............. are u down ? since u rate Hartnell the second best horse in the country I can't see why u wouldn't !! LOL


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 5:33pm
Can't argue with that Tlaz.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 5:36pm
He did have 52.5kg and was allowed to get away with murder in front. I'll have $1000 of that action if we can arrange escrow.


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2017 at 5:42pm
lol forumites appearing outta no where wanting a piece of the acton !! This bet stands for Delta only fellas ........ I'm happy to go $500 ........ 


Posted By: Magnolian Khan
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 4:59pm
2kg penalty


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 5:12pm
Still in a couple of kilos light based on his rating.


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Still in a couple of kilos light based on his rating.
Hes a 99 rating ...... the only 99 rated horse in the field carrying 52kg the rest 50kg hes not a couple of kilos light based on his rating ...... hes a couple over !! Hence the 2kg penalty !! .....Chatauqua 56.5 / Hartnell 58 doubt he goes there .... have no chance !! Redkirk Warrior is a good thing in the Doncaster !! Cant see anything beating him high or low in the weights !! 


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 7:34pm
His rating is actually 109, possibly a point or two less in NSW. 

I' have zero knowledge wrt historical handicapper ratings but at 99 I'd hazard an educated guess he'd be one of the lowest rated ever Open G1 Hcp winners ever, especially given the highly rated opposition he thrashed

From the RNSW website:

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseFullForm.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Recent Form
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseAllForm.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - All Form
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseWinsPlacing.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Wins & Placings
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseWetForm.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Wet Form
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeServices/HorseSearch_Embargoes.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Embargoes
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeServices/HorseSearch_GearChanges.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Gear Changes
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeServices/HorseSearch_Ratings_Flats.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Benchmark Rating
http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseEngagement.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - Acceptances | Weights | Nominations
PosDateTrackDistClassRatingRating Type
11th of 1415-Mar-2015SHTN Good2000HK DERBYRating
5th of 1429-Nov-2015SHTN Good16003YO+ HCP90Rating
2nd of 1121-Oct-2016M V Soft1200HCP91VIC Rating
1st of 712-Nov-2016SANH Good1500SAND STKS100VIC Rating
1st of 1311-Mar-2017FLEM Good1200NEWMARKET109VIC Rating


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 7:47pm
David said on RSN he heads to the Doncaster as he'll never get into another handicap so lightly weighted.
Also that they'd likely keep him to sprinting & a mile at best, given his proven ability at the distance when kept sharp & bearing the wind op. in mind.



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:16pm
3blindmice ~ I think your getting a little confused mate ...... That 109 is not the horses Benchmark rating lool 


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:27pm
I thought my reply might have cleared things up Ada but apparently not. I'd stop digging now if I were you. 

Unfortunately (for you) the headings to that RNSW extract I posted were reformatted but if you click the blue "Benchmark Rating" link at the blh side you can discover the reality for yourself. 



Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

David said on RSN he heads to the Doncaster as he'll never get into another handicap so lightly weighted.
Also that they'd likely keep him to sprinting & a mile at best, given his proven ability at the distance when kept sharp & bearing the wind op. in mind.

A mile will be perfect for this horse Gay3 ..... will really let down !! I still think 2000m at WFA is not out of the question ...... Very good horse !! 


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:51pm
Any luck with that link Ada? Here's the full link if it helps.

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeServices/HorseSearch_Ratings_Flats.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeServices/HorseSearch_Ratings_Flats.aspx?HorseCode=NTU3NTI5OTEyMA%3d%3d&src=horsesearch


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 8:51pm
Hopefully ~ 3blindmice reads this and it sinks in LOL
Race 1 - THE STAR DONCASTER MILE (1600 METRES)
Of $3,000,000.1st $1,755,000, 2nd $570,000, 3rd $300,000, 4th $135,000, 5th $75,000, 6th $30,000, 7th $30,000, 8th $30,000, 9th $22,500, 10th $22,500, Equine Welfare Fund $30,000. GROUP 1
Handicap, Minimum Weight 49kg, Three-Years-Old and Upwards, Apprentices cannot claim.

Track Type: Turf 

Field Limit: 20 + 4 EM

 Last 10HorseTrainerBallotWeight(kg)True Weight(kg)Penalty(kg)Benchmark
1641454x12x http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - SENSE OF OCCASION http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTkwMTQzMDA%3d&trainername=Kris+Lees" rel="nofollow - Kris Lees 1=51.551.5103
23611x92130 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - GLOBAL GLAMOUR http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0MTIxMzA%3d&trainername=Gai+Waterhouse+%26+Adrian+Bott" rel="nofollow - Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott 1=5151107
3x211123x28 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - HARTNELL (GB) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTg0MTM3OTA%3d&trainername=John+OShea" rel="nofollow - John O'Shea 35858116
4x12129x211 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - BLACK HEART BART http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0Mzc2NjA%3d&trainername=Darren+Weir" rel="nofollow - Darren Weir 45757114
51311x47x32 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - CHAUTAUQUA http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTIxMDM0NDA%3d&trainername=Michael%2c+Wayne+%26+John+Hawkes" rel="nofollow - Michael, Wayne & John Hawkes 556.556.5119
6x183538x63 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - EXOSPHERIC (GB) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTE5MDY5NzA%3d&trainername=Lee+%26+Anthony+Freedman" rel="nofollow - Lee & Anthony Freedman 6=5656112
722x12182x3 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - HAURAKI http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTg0MTM3OTA%3d&trainername=John+OShea" rel="nofollow - John O'Shea 6=5656112
87x22251x11 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - LE ROMAIN http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTkwMTQzMDA%3d&trainername=Kris+Lees" rel="nofollow - Kris Lees 8=55.555.5113
9451008x446 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - PALENTINO http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0Mzc2NjA%3d&trainername=Darren+Weir" rel="nofollow - Darren Weir 8=55.555.5111
1029x791x705 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - LUCKY HUSSLER http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0Mzc2NjA%3d&trainername=Darren+Weir" rel="nofollow - Darren Weir 10=5555110
11x51709x4x2 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - TOSEN STARDOM (JPN) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0Mzc2NjA%3d&trainername=Darren+Weir" rel="nofollow - Darren Weir 10=5555110
12631x5470x1 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - ENGLISH http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0MTIxMzA%3d&trainername=Gai+Waterhouse+%26+Adrian+Bott" rel="nofollow - Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott 10=5353110
131240x518x0 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - FIRST SEAL http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=ODg3OTk4ODkw&trainername=John+P+Thompson" rel="nofollow - John P Thompson 10=5353109
146116x11338 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - ECUADOR (NZ) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM0MTIxMzA%3d&trainername=Gai+Waterhouse+%26+Adrian+Bott" rel="nofollow - Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott 14=5454108
15653x4313x1 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - IT’S SOMEWHAT (USA) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTg0MTM3OTA%3d&trainername=John+OShea" rel="nofollow - John O'Shea 14=5454108
1623x56469x2 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - HAPPY CLAPPER http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MjA1NjQ5NzA%3d&trainername=Patrick+Webster" rel="nofollow - Patrick Webster 16=53.553.5107
171x1110x874 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - HE’S OUR ROKKII (NZ) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM3OTczMDA%3d&trainername=David+%26+B+Hayes+%26+T+Dabernig" rel="nofollow - David & B Hayes & T Dabernig 16=53.553.5108
18x463351x62 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - PRIZED ICON http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MjI4NjkyNzIyODA%3d&trainername=James+Cummings" rel="nofollow - James Cummings 16=5353107
19154231x271 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - I AM A STAR (NZ) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTI4MTYwNjA%3d&trainername=Shane+Nichols" rel="nofollow - Shane Nichols 16=5151107
20x00352x020 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - AROD (IRE) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTU1MDAwNDA%3d&trainername=Chris+Waller" rel="nofollow - Chris Waller 20=5353106
2149x2329249 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - DIBAYANI (IRE) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTM3OTczMDA%3d&trainername=David+%26+B+Hayes+%26+T+Dabernig" rel="nofollow - David & B Hayes & T Dabernig 20=5353106
22x3915x0x36 http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/Weights.aspx?Key=2017Apr01,NSW,Royal%20Randwick#" rel="nofollow - ENDLESS DRAMA (IRE) http://www.thechampionships.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Championships Contender http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/TrainerLastRuns.aspx?trainercode=MTU1MDAwNDA%3d&trainername=Chris+Waller" rel="nofollow - Chris Waller 22=5252104
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Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 9:21pm
Yes I read it today after MK posted the penalty Ada. Difference is I understand its limitations (and mine) whereas you apparently think you're a benchmark ratings guru.

The ratings you've posted are as of a particular date and don't reflect recent racing. For example Redkirk Warrior's Newmarket romp, It's Somewhat's first up win, Le Romain's defeat of Chautauqua, Hey Doc's Guineas win etc. 

It's rare that a horse will jump so far in one run but as I said above the handicapper was obviously impressed by the Newmarket win against top class opposition, as he should have been.


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 10:02pm
Ada's gone for a bex it seems. Not that I blame him/her. Made a couple of blunders myself today and was lucky Sneck threw me a line on the Hartnell/Dony-caster one in particular. 


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 7:56am
He should be a good chance in the Donny at Randi, still with a light weight. although I can't see the required Sydney bog track form- maybe he'll get lucky there.

 I am suspicious of the Newmarket form though. 


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2017 at 1:02pm
Don't think ppl realise how good a horse you have to be to start favourite in a Hong Kong Derby a race he was absolutely bolting in before being squeezed outta it at the 600m ....... Before that in the Group One Classic over 1800m he chimed in with a big run looked home went down a lip threw the race away in my book ............... Doncaster today over 1600m he should put this field away !!!! 


Posted By: deejays destiny
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 4:47pm
Had a saver on him, what a freak!


Posted By: Stainvita
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 4:49pm
Yeah what a freak how about the previous 2 runs.

-------------
If your hands aren't shaking you haven't put enough on.


Posted By: Blockbuster
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 5:06pm
On its day it is the best sprinter in Australia. Should have won a lot easier given it lost a length to get to the outside.

Unbeatable fresh, on a dry track.

If conditions are the same on Newmarket day then it looks almost unbeatable.


Posted By: saintly96
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 7:27pm
Just a fantastic fresh and straight track horse, excellent price for those who took him today. Well done.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 7:45pm
Painfully I have to concede ,    I can't remember seeing a final 600 before ,   that he had to clock to win that race.
   Redzel knuckled at the start, so some excuse, but they ran the final 600 in 32.35 .    The winner would have gone much faster than that.
   Sensational run.


Posted By: horlicks
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 7:56pm
Winner 31.51 macca


Posted By: AdaHunta
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 8:44pm
High class middle distance horse winning G1 sprints in that kinda fashion just a very serious animal 

I wouldnt be surprised if Hayes targets the Cox Plate this year !!

Those sectionals are off the chain ..




Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by horlicks horlicks wrote:

Winner 31.51 macca


TU .H.    That's Flying aye ..    
STEWARDS R> Redzel - began awkwardly making contact with the right hand side of its starting stall and became unbalanced.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Blockbuster Blockbuster wrote:

On its day it is the best sprinter in Australia. Should have won a lot easier given it lost a length to get to the outside.

Unbeatable fresh, on a dry track.

If conditions are the same on Newmarket day then it looks almost unbeatable.


Conditions won't be the same in the Newmarket. He won't be fresh and he won't be at wfa.

He seems to need a 100 day break between runs to race at his peak.LOL Might as welll go straight to Ascot.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 10:51am
As we speak - who is the best sprinter in the world at the moment? Is it Redzel?

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

As we speak - who is the best sprinter in the world at the moment? Is it Redzel?


It's a stupid title. There is no such horse and if there is we won't know it because there is no way to judge accurately.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 10:55am
Originally posted by AdaHunta AdaHunta wrote:

High class middle distance horse winning G1 sprints in that kinda fashion just a very serious animal 

I wouldnt be surprised if Hayes targets the Cox Plate this year !!

Those sectionals are off the chain ..



I doubt he is a high class middle distance horse. Whilst he won his maiden and a handicap over 2000m in the UK they were not high quality races.

Sprinting and FRESH seems to be his go. I doubt he gets a mile in Australia.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: deejays destiny
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 11:51am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

As we speak - who is the best sprinter in the world at the moment? Is it Redzel?


It's a stupid title. There is no such horse and if there is we won't know it because there is no way to judge accurately.

Exactly. No such thing as worlds best


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 12:53pm
Are you going touse the same principal for Winx as well? She was named the best turf horse in the world.

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Prince of Penzance
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:10pm
She is.
Worlds best sprinter is an overrated title


Posted By: Speediskey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by deejays destiny deejays destiny wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

As we speak - who is the best sprinter in the world at the moment? Is it Redzel?


It's a stupid title. There is no such horse and if there is we won't know it because there is no way to judge accurately.

Exactly. No such thing as worlds best

Of course there is such a horse, at any one time there is the best of anything in the world, to judge it is harder, obviously.

It's pretty clear cut that Redzel is the best sprinter in Australia right now, you just have to ask yourself if you rate anything overseas higher.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Prince of Penzance Prince of Penzance wrote:

She is.
Worlds best sprinter is an overrated title


Why is it an overrated title?

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Prince of Penzance Prince of Penzance wrote:

She is.
Worlds best sprinter is an overrated title


Why is it an overrated title?

It is not overrated title. 

It is simply people talking for the sake of talking.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:34pm
Redzel is a consistent and quality sprinter but I also think his timing has been good. Chautauqua on the downside and not much else around. Don't think his peak is as good as a few we've had in recent years (didn't seem to stop everyone calling a dual G1 winner a "champion" on the broadcast yesterday ). Reckon he's about on par with say a Buffering, which is still pretty good.

What's overseas I have idea.


Posted By: Speediskey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Redzel is a consistent and quality sprinter but I also think his timing has been good. Chautauqua on the downside and not much else around. Don't think his peak is as good as a few we've had in recent years (didn't seem to stop everyone calling a dual G1 winner a "champion" on the broadcast yesterday ). Reckon he's about on par with say a Buffering, which is still pretty good.

What's overseas I have idea.


Yeah I’d say around on par with Buffering as well, but Buff raced in the best sprinting age of all time.


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:02pm
Bufferin won overseas as well

-------------
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Shrunk in the Wash
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Redzel is a consistent and quality sprinter but I also think his timing has been good. Chautauqua on the downside and not much else around. Don't think his peak is as good as a few we've had in recent years (didn't seem to stop everyone calling a dual G1 winner a "champion" on the broadcast yesterday ). Reckon he's about on par with say a Buffering, which is still pretty good.

What's overseas I have idea.


Yeah I’d say around on par with Buffering as well, but Buff raced in the best sprinting age of all time.





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Bufferin won overseas as well

Which is exciting but meaningless in itself in discussing the class of a horse.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:14pm
   lol   BUFFERING ...   Be nice to have one to compare with the Buff.

I think Redzel lost momentum at the start yesterday and at R1, wasn't able to overcome the early petrol use.

The finish was sensational and it makes for a top rematch.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

   lol   BUFFERING ...   Be nice to have one to compare with the Buff.

I think Redzel lost momentum at the start yesterday and at R1, wasn't able to overcome the early petrol use.

The finish was sensational and it makes for a top rematch.

I'd have to look at the start again but it can not have been much more of a factor in the result than the check that Redkirk Warrior copped at about 500 or wherever it was ?




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:34pm
Redkirk Warrior does have to ease around "his tow" into races.
Redzel is a "with the pace" sprinter and yesterday it is obvious on replay and Stewards,   That he knuckld , became unbalanced after hitting the side of the gates and had momentum and position to regain.     
    He looked home and the winner produced a final 600 rarely seen . Both Horses did a mighty job.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Redzel is a consistent and quality sprinter but I also think his timing has been good. Chautauqua on the downside and not much else around. Don't think his peak is as good as a few we've had in recent years (didn't seem to stop everyone calling a dual G1 winner a "champion" on the broadcast yesterday ). Reckon he's about on par with say a Buffering, which is still pretty good.

What's overseas I have idea.


Yeah I’d say around on par with Buffering as well, but Buff raced in the best sprinting age of all time.





He ran into BC and Hay List. Repeatedly. Probably wins another half a dozen G1s if not for those two freaks. Then along came Lankan Rupee and Chautauqua. Think Speediskey's comment is pretty obvious.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 7:28am
World's best, presumably, means you could take that horse anywhere, on any track, and be reasonably confident it would win, which is far more than I could say about Redzel or Redkirk Warrior.


Posted By: ThreeBears
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 12:17pm
America's leading sprinter Roy H by More Than Ready is a fair animal. He's aiming for the Golden Shaheen on DWC night.


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 1:00pm
Just on his final 600m.

I seem to remember Chautauqua running a similar finale, in this race if my memory serves, the year he beat Terravista and Japonisme.

Also there was a win by All Silent which had everyone flabbergasted, might have been the Darley in the spring.

-------------
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 1:42pm
It was the Patinak ( was this the Darley?) All Silent ran 1-8-78, final 600, 33-14, bit of an old favourite of mine as he was a half brother to the bonny Private Steer,


Posted By: Go Flash Go
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 8:23pm

Redkirk Warrior Smile  .... is pretty much a Champion in my books ... if not already.

Black Heart Bart nearly won the Newmarket first-up ... Redkirk Warrior did ... and confirmed it since Wink


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 1:05pm
I followed him right through the spring and was a bit let down by his results. Stuck strong though and thought 1st up down the straight was right up his alley. Happy to take the $10 on offer.

Don't think Redzel lost too many admirers. Still Australia's best sprinter.


Posted By: tillyras
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:20pm
Good horse


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:25pm
Has to be up there with Redzel for best sprinter in Australia right now. Great win carrying topweight.

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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:27pm
What a horse! Absolutely love him.

He's hugely underrated. Now has 2 x Newmarkets and 1 x Lightning - that's special.


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Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

What a horse! Absolutely love him.

He's hugely underrated. Now has 2 x Newmarkets and 1 x Lightning - that's special.


        That was special ...   Heart in mouth job ..    I feared he got beaten.      Great price with his record.     That's 5 wins from 7 on good tracks in Oz.


Posted By: Sunline
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:48pm
Totally agree with all of the above, Macca. I didn't tip strongly as was an open race, but I could not believe his price and tipped as big value to some mates and bet accordingly.

The Newmarket is winnable for classy sprinters at the top of weights. Lightning always the better form for the race.


-------------
Sunline...simply supreme


Posted By: Nick
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 4:36pm
Massive overs :)


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:19pm
Not exactly a fair win

Regan Bayliss (Redkirk Warrior (GB)) - pleaded guilty to a charge under the provisions of AR137A(5)(a)(ii) for using his whip eight times prior to the 100m, which is three times more than permitted, two of which were consecutive. Regan Bayliss had his licence to ride in races suspended for a period to commence at the conclusion of his careless riding suspension incurred last week, at midnight April 1st and to expire at midnight April 7th, a total of eight race meetings (two metropolitan, six provincial). Regan Bayliss was also fined the sum of $5000. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account he won the race which was a Group 1 event.



Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

Not exactly a fair win

Regan Bayliss (Redkirk Warrior (GB)) - pleaded guilty to a charge under the provisions of AR137A(5)(a)(ii) for using his whip eight times prior to the 100m, which is three times more than permitted, two of which were consecutive. Regan Bayliss had his licence to ride in races suspended for a period to commence at the conclusion of his careless riding suspension incurred last week, at midnight April 1st and to expire at midnight April 7th, a total of eight race meetings (two metropolitan, six provincial). Regan Bayliss was also fined the sum of $5000. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account he won the race which was a Group 1 event.



How can eight times be three time more than permitted?


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:49pm
Read it again judge, my understanding is you are allowed 5 strokes before the 100 , he used it 8, ..or am I wrong?


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:57pm
Three more than permitted? Three times more than permitted


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:01pm
Sorry mate. It was a (admittedly bad) joke.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:12pm
It's been a looooong day for me, and I am naive at the best of times.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:15pm
Happy 21st Regan. Thumbs Up


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:16pm
Don’t believe it. Love your insights into the caper, Carioca.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:25pm
These whip rules are absurd.    He won the race , what else do they want.

Reminds me of Bart's famous reply when the Inspector told him he had too many flies around the stable.

Bart asked , How many flies was he allowed.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:29pm
This may burst like an enormous carbuncle one day, 3 strokes over the max allowed, big money involved, an owner just may say fcuk this I'm protesting, then the manewer will fly imo.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Don’t believe it. Love your insights into the caper, Carioca.

Kind words Judge, thanks.


Posted By: Shawy38
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

   These whip rules are absurd.    He won the race , what else do they want.

Reminds me of Bart's famous reply when the Inspector told him he had too many flies around the stable.

Bart asked , How many flies was he allowed.


Owner of Brave Smash is pissed off.
His horse did not breach the rules and was beaten a nose by a horse who did.

Time for a rule change, whip breach = disqualification


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:45pm
It's all show - except in Qld where they use crystal balls to determine if any advantage was taken. Near impossible to tell if extra strikes help, or by how much. 

However, if you have the rule police it every day, and make the penalty significant. Stewards are treating those who don't transgress with disdain with piddling penalties, esp in big races.


Posted By: horlicks
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:48pm
At least 2 jockeys were suspended today.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

It's all show - except in Qld where they use crystal balls to determine if any advantage was taken. Near impossible to tell if extra strikes help, or by how much. 

However, if you have the rule police it every day, and make the penalty significant. Stewards are treating those who don't transgress with disdain with piddling penalties, esp in big races.



Does not matter whether they gain an advantage. They break the rule, there must be consequences that discourage them doing so.



-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:35pm
I s'pose in all reality it's a " Claytons" rule , isn't it.


Posted By: 3blindmice
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:48pm
It matters only when protests are considered djebel. On reflection I think moderate penalties are appropriate because the notion that jockeys should concentrate on distances and whip strikes is nonsense imo. Moral is don't be afraid to put a few down the rump if you believe it is needed, don't do it if it's not. And be as kind as you can to your mount.



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