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Northern territory prison brutalisation

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Topic: Northern territory prison brutalisation
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Subject: Northern territory prison brutalisation
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 10:56am
No matter how they try to dress this it is just bad.
I think the troubles of the world take a back seat, this time.
No wonder the troubles start, anywhere, when there are people like this in charge. 
And, dare i say it,but, watching media watch, and its explanation of how the world was duped, through government, and then the media, no wonder the world has ISIS and other terrorist groups.
There are some complete incompetents in charge.

Northern Territory juvenile detention: ABC air scenes likened to Abu Graib

ABC shows footage of teenagers beaten, hooded and restrained in Darwin detention centre and within hours 3,000 people sign petition for an inquiry 
  https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/26/malcolm-turnbull-announces-royal-commission-northern-territory-detention" rel="nofollow - Malcolm Turnbull announces royal commission

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/26/northern-territory-juvenile-detention-calls-royal-commission-shocking-footage#img-1" rel="nofollow">
Teenager hooded and shackled to chair
 A teenage detainee is shackled and hooded in a chair at the Don Dale youth detention centre in Darwin, in footage shown on the ABC’s Four Corners program. Photograph: ABC TV

 in Darwin

http://twitter.com/heldavidson" rel="nofollow - -




Replies:
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 10:58am
The goverments duped the media who then reported the "weapons of mass distruction".



Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:01am
If you hav'nt seen 4 corners do yourself a favour, and then it may be understood why the world is what it is.


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:04am
Creepy. NT is a strange place.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:08am
And people want to defund the ABC. Brilliant journalism. Again.
Malcolm Turnbull might want to add a Royal Commission into Nauru as well, or do asylum seekers not count?
What hope do these indigenous kids have when treated by authority like that? No racism in this country is there......



Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:15am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

And people want to defund the ABC. Brilliant journalism. Again.
Malcolm Turnbull might want to add a Royal Commission into Nauru as well, or do asylum seekers not count?
What hope do these indigenous kids have when treated by authority like that? No racism in this country is there......



Bigot,

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is racism in every country.

There is also abuse of power in every country.

Prisons in Africa, Asia and South America are terrible.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:17am
So that makes it right?


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:19am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

So that makes it right?


That's the real world. You're a lefty bigot out of touch with the real world.

Crying racism everytime solves nothing.


1. Members will be kind and courteous, and respectful to other members and the moderators. No direct or indirect personal attacks or insults of any kind will be allowed. Posts which antagonize, belittle or humiliate other members and/or the moderators will not be tolerated, nor will racism, sexism, bigotry, hatred, violent language, threats, real-life threats, insults, extreme vulgar language, flaming, otherwise inappropriate or hurtful language, harassment, grammar policing. This also applies to signatures.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:23am
I will take that on board. Thanks for setting me straight.


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:27am
Good.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:38am
SUB..     Don't get conned .
  For a start your mention of Nauru is absurd .     The centre in Nauru  is open and free to come & go as the detainees wish.        If Nauru is good enough for it's own residents , it is more than sufficient for refugees who have in fact found safety from wherever they supposedly fled in fear for their lives.
 
    The Royal Commission & the alleged bad treatments of these young people in The NT appears to be a replay of more than one Royal Commissions that was held into the Schedule 5  Mental Asylums , some 60 years  ago .
    The famous "Straight Jacket "  type restraint and unsightly handling of inmates was top of the agenda , way back then .
     Remember , staff didn't have the luxury of chemical restraint and mechanical aids of today.
 That being said ,    Not a lot came out of those Royal Commissions but over time , the incorrigible inmates have been dumped into society to murder and plunder .     That continues today.
  Daniel Morcombe ,    Mrs Morse , Anita Cobby  ,Jill Meagher  and thousands of others have lost their lives over the total disregard for Public safety in allowing these Psychopaths on the Streets.
  Spare a thought for the difficulty in trying to control these gangs in detention.
  Staff , visitors and other inmates lose their lives at the hands of these very difficult people.
 This will do great damage around the World for Australia when in fact , the majority of these people will only go on to worse things .
   I may add ,       Even our emergency areas in many Hospital are now forced to employ Security  guards .      Nurses & paramedics are assaulted on a Regular basis,  some    lose their lives .
  DON"T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ..     Think of the welfare of your own nearest & dearest  at the hands of these totally out of control people  if they  aren't kept under control.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:49am
waiting for the ridiculous arguments that were seen here when blacks in America were shot by racist, thug cops,   Aboriginals commit more crimes and have a large percentage in prison compared to their numbers.  Conclusion, they deserve whatever treatmment is meted out Ouch




Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:54am
macca, I think you need to watch what you're commenting on:

http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/four-corners-evidence-of-kids-tear-gas-in-don-dale-prison/7656128


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:16pm
I'm always amazed that things like this are conveniently recorded for our viewing pleasure...why on earth was this being recorded in the first place..?


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I'm always amazed that things like this are conveniently recorded for our viewing pleasure...why on earth was this being recorded in the first place..?


Big brother is always watching. This has been well known for a while now. Koori Mail ran front page headlines on children being gassed in September last year, and the paper was lamenting why nobody seemed to care. Thankfully now they do.

96 percent of these kids were indigenous. We have a problem in this country. When prominent indigenous leaders tell us these things, let's start listening. Why does it take mainstream news for anyone to care?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

macca, I think you need to watch what you're commenting on:

http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/four-corners-evidence-of-kids-tear-gas-in-don-dale-prison/7656128
 
     Yes Gay3 .      looks terrible when dressed up for the media .
 If we watched the victims of these inmates and the heartaches THEY  endured after the crimes against them ,   we would be more understanding of how difficult it is  for the staff who have to look after them ,  subdue & restrain them in their uncontrollable rampages .
 
  I actually worked in the Health System for 48 years .     I spent  years in some of the worst areas of the Psychiatric System.      Not a pleasant area and I understand why they now can't get staff to work there .
 
   I'm not condoning torture but I am saying for people to realise how hard it is to manage violent situations in these areas.  
   The ABC must have had this story for years .   I wonder why they took so long.
 
   The alternative to isolating these people is to accept more  Rape & murder in our Streets. 
   


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I'm always amazed that things like this are conveniently recorded for our viewing pleasure...why on earth was this being recorded in the first place..?


Big brother is always watching. This has been well known for a while now. Koori Mail ran front page headlines on children being gassed in September last year, and the paper was lamenting why nobody seemed to care. Thankfully now they do.

96 percent of these kids were indigenous. We have a problem in this country. When prominent indigenous leaders tell us these things, let's start listening. Why does it take mainstream news for anyone to care?


As soon as these guards started recording they must have known that it could be used as evidence against them and they could go to jail, so why do it, torture and mistreatment like this is nearly always done in secret and isolation with no one watching so why was it all conveniently captured like a reality tv show..?? just weird imo..

one guy even questions is the camera recording, make sure it is he says, the one with the cameras says yeah it's recording..again bizarre behaviors by men doing something they knew was wrong..Ouch

 


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:32pm
True. Maybe they thought nobody would care?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:49pm
Fiddles ...     They would be recording the behaviour of many .    For the Senior Staff .    4 Corners would be doing a huge edit .       Truth be known that kid who had the re strain on his arms had stabbed someone just before and was spitting at everyone ..  ( hood over head.)
   You won't see the bad behaviour or life threatening antics of the out of control inmates.
  Royal Commission or not ,  nothing will come of this over time .      There is no alternative , short of execution .          probably the best option.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Fiddles ...     They would be recording the behaviour of many .    For the Senior Staff .    4 Corners would be doing a huge edit .       Truth be known that kid who had the re strain on his arms had stabbed someone just before and was spitting at everyone ..  ( hood over head.)
   You won't see the bad behaviour or life threatening antics of the out of control inmates.
  Royal Commission or not ,  nothing will come of this over time .      There is no alternative , short of execution .          probably the best option.



and there we have it, ther first apologist for the brutal behaviour, took longer than I thought

If you treated your chihuahuas like that the RSPCA would be down on you like a ton of bricks


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Fiddles ...     They would be recording the behaviour of many .    For the Senior Staff .    4 Corners would be doing a huge edit .       Truth be known that kid who had the re strain on his arms had stabbed someone just before and was spitting at everyone ..  ( hood over head.)
   You won't see the bad behaviour or life threatening antics of the out of control inmates.
  Royal Commission or not ,  nothing will come of this over time .      There is no alternative , short of execution .          probably the best option.



and there we have it, ther first apologist for the brutal behaviour, took longer than I thought

If you treated your chihuahuas like that the RSPCA would be down on you like a ton of bricks
 
   Whale .     I'm known for my kindness in fact...         I'm only pointing out the massive problems involved in dealing with maniacs and dangerous behaviour .        Other people and staff have to be protected.
    Whatever it takes is acceptable to me,  but I'm only too willing to organise for you to sponsor and take a couple of these "kids" to your place .    That way you are entitled to criticise.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 1:12pm
ld argument don't dicuss anything unless you have first hand experience, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.


They can be restrained if needs be without brutalising them, not a difficult concept to grasp


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I'm always amazed that things like this are conveniently recorded for our viewing pleasure...why on earth was this being recorded in the first place..?


Big brother is always watching. This has been well known for a while now. Koori Mail ran front page headlines on children being gassed in September last year, and the paper was lamenting why nobody seemed to care. Thankfully now they do.

96 percent of these kids were indigenous. We have a problem in this country. When prominent indigenous leaders tell us these things, let's start listening. Why does it take mainstream news for anyone to care?


What about the 4% of white kids. Or is it only "black lives matter"?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

ld argument don't dicuss anything unless you have first hand experience, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.


They can be restrained if needs be without brutalising them, not a difficult concept to grasp
 
  I said in an earlier post I had worked in the System.       I'm probably one of few still alive who was there prior to the Anti- Psychotic , tranquiliser , anti depressant drugs.
   You are kidding yourself when you say it isn't difficult to restrain these people .      That's exactly what these officers were doing ,    using wrist restraints .    Hood .       To protect the person and others.
  2 nurses were stabbed doing exactly that at Bloomfield Hospital Orange NSW 2 years ago . One died .
 Another Nurse in a remote area was murdered last year.
 
   I love these Politicians =   Juvenile Justice hahahaha wonderful words.
 We must protect these children and rehabilitate them .  Ho Ho    Turn rabbits into elephants would be easier in too many cases.
   First off ,   get families to send them to school.
   Early intervention they say .     >>    Then get sued for a stolen generation.
  Take some film of the family units in these places for a real horror film .


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 1:58pm
That bloke in the picture in the first post looks white to me ?  So why has the black versus white thing come into it  ?  Again .

-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

macca, I think you need to watch what you're commenting on:

http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm" rel="nofollow - http://abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/07/25/4504895.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/four-corners-evidence-of-kids-tear-gas-in-don-dale-prison/7656128
 
     Yes Gay3 .      looks terrible when dressed up for the media .
 If we watched the victims of these inmates and the heartaches THEY  endured after the crimes against them ,   we would be more understanding of how difficult it is  for the staff who have to look after them ,  subdue & restrain them in their uncontrollable rampages .
 
  I actually worked in the Health System for 48 years .     I spent  years in some of the worst areas of the Psychiatric System.      Not a pleasant area and I understand why they now can't get staff to work there .
 
   I'm not condoning torture but I am saying for people to realise how hard it is to manage violent situations in these areas.  
   The ABC must have had this story for years .   I wonder why they took so long.
 
   The alternative to isolating these people is to accept more  Rape & murder in our Streets. 
   


There's still no excuse for treating 10 & 14yos as depicted i.e 3 hefty males who are also martial arts fighters, throwing themselves on jockey sized kids to strip them naked or throwing them across a cell onto a mattress, from shoulder height Angry


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

That bloke in the picture in the first post looks white to me ?  So why has the black versus white thing come into it  ?  Again .
 
 
    He might have done a Stan Grant and used paint AA.
 
Don't you love it .    peoples homes getting Burgled ,  Their cars stolen and wrecked , Muggings and rapes .    murder at times and what these ravers on the news today will achieve is to make sure all that continues.
  These criminals  are easier for authorities on the Streets,    than in the Gaols .
 
 In detention they wreck the furnishings ,   crash holes into walls and the staff ,   behave in an assaultive manner and when brought to earth ,      WE COMPLAIN .
 
 Don't complain,       ADOPT A COUPLE OF THESE KIDS


Posted By: thesherrif
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:28pm
SEEms the inDefensable does not existt on this forum , every aborent action has it's defedars


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:45pm
Reality is the right word Sherrif.
 
    10 to 14 year olds wandering the Streets at 2 am ,       damaging / stealing cars ,  holding the aged and infirm in terror ,    gang assaults .     all that's OK is it.
   Officers are assaulted daily and on occasions killed.
 How would you " cryers "  deal with Ivan Milat when he was a fit and violent youth .     Ivans Nephew who murdered at age 17 .        Buy him ice creams and chocolates I expect .  
    Get real,     These tapes aren't shown in full so you aren't getting a true picture .
 
  Deaths in Custody Royal Commission was another waste of the tax payer dollar.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:49pm
pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?
 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?
 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


that is all I am saying and there are plenty of such acts being covered up


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I'm always amazed that things like this are conveniently recorded for our viewing pleasure...why on earth was this being recorded in the first place..?


Big brother is always watching. This has been well known for a while now. Koori Mail ran front page headlines on children being gassed in September last year, and the paper was lamenting why nobody seemed to care. Thankfully now they do.

96 percent of these kids were indigenous. We have a problem in this country. When prominent indigenous leaders tell us these things, let's start listening. Why does it take mainstream news for anyone to care?


What about the 4% of white kids. Or is it only "black lives matter"?
 
 
That is hands down the stupidest thing I have read, and it's a pretty substantial list.


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?

 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


Domestic violence is 25 times more likely in native communities.

The left would rather blame Eddie or Steve.



Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 4:49pm
The problem appears to have always been anecdotally in correctional centres where there is a high indigenous population, and this footage seems to confirm that. 

Of course, we don't have any footage of the actions of these "good boys from good homes" that brought them through the justice system to be where they are today.  

It has been reported that the local victims of their continuous destructive crimes are generally unconcerned by what treatment they receive, as none of it seems to act as a deterrent.

I have no first hand knowledge of what happens on the ground in theses areas, apart from what I have read or been told by visitors.

Accordingly, I'm happy to acquiesce to the knowledge of WHALE on this one, if you do indeed live in Broome, you are entitled to comment, being that you are part of a community which is 24% indigenous. 

You may not have had a Muslim Refugee since the 1800's, but you can shed some light on these issues for us, I would imagine ...


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

waiting for the ridiculous arguments that were seen here when blacks in America were shot by racist, thug cops,   Aboriginals commit more crimes and have a large percentage in prison compared to their numbers.  Conclusion, they deserve whatever treatmment is meted out Ouch




Police shoot white people but doesnt get the media coverage.

The parents of the natives are too blame. They failed to raise their kids with respect.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 5:32pm
     It takes a long and serious history of crime to finish up in Gaol.     An isolation in itself .
  Continued violent behaviour within that System invariably results in further isolation to a room / cell .
  Usually for the protection of the offender, Staff  and other inmates.
 
  I assume these videos are taken by order of the Senior Staff at that gaol ,    as evidence in serious incidence .
  Very easy for Four Corners to edit them to form an out of context picture to suit their story.
  I'm sure you would see a totally different story if the videos were shown in full .
    Give some thought to the victims of the crimes that put these incorrigibles into prison .
 
   We hear every day how bad Police are targeting traffic offences.
  Some of us have been driving for more than 50 years and never lost a point.
   Follow the laws and you won't have any problems .
 
  Whale has given us many places of residence over the years Dr E.  He lives under a rock somewhere.
 


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 5:34pm
No cane
Drunk parents

Who is going to discipline these kids?


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

     It takes a long and serious history of crime to finish up in Gaol.     An isolation in itself .
  Continued violent behaviour within that System invariably results in further isolation to a room / cell .
  Usually for the protection of the offender, Staff  and other inmates.
 
  I assume these videos are taken by order of the Senior Staff at that gaol ,    as evidence in serious incidence .
  Very easy for Four Corners to edit them to form an out of context picture to suit their story.
  I'm sure you would see a totally different story if the videos were shown in full .
    Give some thought to the victims of the crimes that put these incorrigibles into prison .
 
   We hear every day how bad Police are targeting traffic offences.
  Some of us have been driving for more than 50 years and never lost a point.
   Follow the laws and you won't have any problems .
 
  Whale has given us many places of residence over the years Dr E.  He lives under a rock somewhere.
 

Interesting you should say that, and makes sense.

Whilst he is quick to deride anyone else's comments that are not aligned to the insular world of the Marxist left Wingnuts, he actually has nothing to contribute on any subject? 

I would imagine that Broome would have similar issues to the ones in this post, and you're right, he doesn't seem to have anything, certainly not what one would expect from even a partially functioning community member ...

 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

[QUOTE=maccamax]      It takes a long and serious history of crime to finish up in Gaol.     An isolation in itself .
  Continued violent behaviour within that System invariably results in further isolation to a room / cell .
  Usually for the protection of the offender, Staff  and other inmates.
 
  I assume these videos are taken by order of the Senior Staff at that gaol ,    as evidence in

Interesting you should say that, and makes sense.

Whilst he is quick to deride anyone else's comments that are not aligned to the insular world of the Marxist left Wingnuts, he actually has nothing to contribute on any subject? 

I would imagine that Broome would have similar issues to the ones in this post, and you're right, he doesn't seem to have anything, certainly not what one would expect from even a partially functioning community member ...

 



yolu are  deranged with your obsession with the left. There is outrage everywhere over what was seen on 4 corners last night, that well know Marxist Malcolm Turnbull is calling a Royal cCommission and this is the best you can do, truly pathetic


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:17pm
Marxist left wingnut. Skol.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:19pm
Meanwhile the banking industry is rubbing its hands with glee.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?

 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


you previously said you agree with whatever it takes to restrain these kids. what didnt you agree with in regards to the footage we saw?


Posted By: Rattlesnake
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

ld argument don't dicuss anything unless you have first hand experience, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.


They can be restrained if needs be without brutalising them, not a difficult concept to grasp
 
  I said in an earlier post I had worked in the System.       I'm probably one of few still alive who was there prior to the Anti- Psychotic , tranquiliser , anti depressant drugs.
   You are kidding yourself when you say it isn't difficult to restrain these people .      That's exactly what these officers were doing ,    using wrist restraints .    Hood .       To protect the person and others.
  2 nurses were stabbed doing exactly that at Bloomfield Hospital Orange NSW 2 years ago . One died .
 Another Nurse in a remote area was murdered last year.
 
   I love these Politicians =   Juvenile Justice hahahaha wonderful words.
 We must protect these children and rehabilitate them .  Ho Ho    Turn rabbits into elephants would be easier in too many cases.
   First off ,   get families to send them to school.
   Early intervention they say .     >>    Then get sued for a stolen generation.
  Take some film of the family units in these places for a real horror film .

I haven't seen all the footage so can't comment on other events, but I know that hoods are used on those inmates who are known to spit at correctional staff.

If it was my loved one working in that field I'd rather them use a hood to safeguard against communicable diseases being caught from a spitting inmate than worry about how bad something may look when not assessed in context.

Wrist restraints are used on those who have become a danger to themselves (e.g. threatening to break their own hand), and others.

No doubt it's a confronting image, but some form of control needs to be applied for the physical safety of the inmate and the staff.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?

 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


you previously said you agree with whatever it takes to restrain these kids. what didnt you agree with in regards to the footage we saw?
 
  A good Question .      One has to accept we are only seeing what four corners wants us to see.
  If the Youths on the receiving end here had just badly damaged some other person ,   an eye for an eye is fair enough .      The hood is used as they spit their HIV or HEP  infested fluids at others.
  The hands were fastened to prevent self mutilation or danger to others , remembering ( we are only seeing the end of what was probably a very serious incident )
  It will all come out and be a fizzer .    Behave with no consideration for the welfare of others  , Do the time and stop complaining.    Your dealings with dangerous humans here you know.
  Would you walk into that area with that wonderful youth smashing walls and windows , armed with a bar and mad with rage. ???           I wouldn't either , I'd mace him big time first.
 
   I ask you for comment ;     They are demanding the closure of that Gaol , stating the youths involved are /will be , back in the community .
  EXACTLY the same as they did with the Killers of Jill Meagher, Danny Morcombe  & so many others.
 There is no in between in such situations.
 
  Would you close it and send these incorrigibles  back into the community.
The Public can't have it both ways .   
 


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

The problem appears to have always been anecdotally in correctional centres where there is a high indigenous population, and this footage seems to confirm that. 

Of course, we don't have any footage of the actions of these "good boys from good homes" that brought them through the justice system to be where they are today.  

It has been reported that the local victims of their continuous destructive crimes are generally unconcerned by what treatment they receive, as none of it seems to act as a deterrent.

I have no first hand knowledge of what happens on the ground in theses areas, apart from what I have read or been told by visitors.

Accordingly, I'm happy to acquiesce to the knowledge of WHALE on this one, if you do indeed live in Broome, you are entitled to comment, being that you are part of a community which is 24% indigenous. 

You may not have had a Muslim Refugee since the 1800's, but you can shed some light on these issues for us, I would imagine ...

Come on Whale - tell us of your first hand experiences ...


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 6:57pm
Or are you just all talk and "internet knowledge", like all of your other good socialist comrades? ... just like your position on muslims immigrants ... never met one of them either ...?

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:03pm
lol you get worse and more stupid. Do you have 1st hand experience in every subject you discuss. What is a left winger and are all those people outraged by the brutality left wingers ?


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:05pm
Never met a muslim?


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:08pm
huh,  I have met plenty


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

lol you get worse and more stupid. Do you have 1st hand experience in every subject you discuss. What is a left winger and are all those people outraged by the brutality left wingers ?

I'll be outraged, if it's appropriate ... when I have all the facts.

I won't become hysterical when a TV program from the ALP Propaganda machine selectively airs some tape they have held for months, on the eve of the NT election ... wake up Australia!!!

4 Corners ... same stable as Q&A (who just brought us the Muslim Victim Mr Elomar, who turned out to be an anti - semite, anti - Capitalism hate monger planted to ambush an elected conservative political representative!) ... less scruples than 60 minutes, and they do it using MY FCUCKING MONEY AGAIN!!! ... pleeez!Ermm   
 
... and unlike the whack jobs from the left, who so often push their academic ideologies upon us, I prefer to speak on subjects that I DO have knowledge and experience of.

That's why I offered you the opportunity here, being that you claim you are in "Broome" ...?

You certainly have NOT let me down ... nfi Dead 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:21pm
He is a whale. Just not the kind you thought.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:27pm
Good to see him elevating himself to insults.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

lol you get worse and more stupid. Do you have 1st hand experience in every subject you discuss. What is a left winger and are all those people outraged by the brutality left wingers ?

I'll be outraged, if it's appropriate ... when I have all the facts.

I won't become hysterical when a TV program from the ALP Propaganda machine selectively airs some tape they have held for months, on the eve of the NT election ... wake up Australia!!!

4 Corners ... same stable as Q&A (who just brought us the Muslim Victim Mr Elomar, who turned out to be an anti - semite, anti - Capitalism hate monger planted to ambush an elected conservative political representative!) ... less scruples than 60 minutes, and they do it using MY FCUCKING MONEY AGAIN!!! ... pleeez!Ermm   
 
... and unlike the whack jobs from the left, who so often push their academic ideologies upon us, I prefer to speak on subjects that I DO have knowledge and experience of.

That's why I offered you the opportunity here, being that you claim you are in "Broome" ...?

You certainly have NOT let me down ... nfi Dead 
 
 
Gainfully employed. Hmmmmm
4 Corners less scruples than 60 Minutes. As if we needed any more proof of the good Doctors thinking......


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 7:56pm
settle down Dr E, I can see the vein trobbing in your forehead,  You certainly are one angry man


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

 nfi Dead 
 
The Doc unarguably spot on this time.



Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

settle down Dr E, I can see the vein trobbing in your forehead,  You certainly are one angry man
Must be encouraging to see the resident expert on everything, subbie, jump to your assistance ...Wink

Come on Whale, give us some pearls of wisdom from your vast experiences ...




-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

pathetic Macca, they are all Ivan Milats   ?

 
   The Kids in NT  are the extreme of an example ,  the same as the Milat family.
 
   I respect  your opinions ,       mine is from experience and while I don't agree with any form of unnecessary or brutal acts ,    There are regular occasions when life & limb are  in danger and that results in such reactions .


you previously said you agree with whatever it takes to restrain these kids. what didnt you agree with in regards to the footage we saw?
 
  A good Question .      One has to accept we are only seeing what four corners wants us to see.
  If the Youths on the receiving end here had just badly damaged some other person ,   an eye for an eye is fair enough .      The hood is used as they spit their HIV or HEP  infested fluids at others.
  The hands were fastened to prevent self mutilation or danger to others , remembering ( we are only seeing the end of what was probably a very serious incident )
  It will all come out and be a fizzer .    Behave with no consideration for the welfare of others  , Do the time and stop complaining.    Your dealings with dangerous humans here you know.
  Would you walk into that area with that wonderful youth smashing walls and windows , armed with a bar and mad with rage. ???           I wouldn't either , I'd mace him big time first.
 
   I ask you for comment ;     They are demanding the closure of that Gaol , stating the youths involved are /will be , back in the community .
  EXACTLY the same as they did with the Killers of Jill Meagher, Danny Morcombe  & so many others.
 There is no in between in such situations.
 
  Would you close it and send these incorrigibles  back into the community.
The Public can't have it both ways .   
 
You are all over this maccamax, and speaking from experience, knowledge and understandingClap 

Any way you can reduce it to 3 word slogans for subbie and whale ...?Embarrassed


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:29pm
Sarcasm becomes you   not.  you are the resident expert on all topics, I simply saw a programme on Four Corners, the best investigative programme on Australian TV and was disgusted.   Most people had the same reaction, I am not dispensing any wisdom or answers, nothing at all unusual, boastful or insughful about my reaction, I implied nothing of the sort  It bothers you though doesn't it,   strange that Confused


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:32pm
insightful *


I see you frothing at the mouth, furiously banging away at your reply, sorry but I gotta go out, have fun Dr E Wink


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:33pm

Leftist, Marxist wingnuts. 3 word slogan there for you Dr......



Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Sarcasm becomes you   not.  you are the resident expert on all topics, I simply saw a programme on Four Corners, the best investigative programme on Australian TV and was disgusted.   Most people had the same reaction, I am not dispensing any wisdom or answers, nothing at all unusual, boastful or insughful about my reaction, I implied nothing of the sort  It bothers you though doesn't it,   strange that Confused

It bothers that your only contribution is to be detrimental to other people's opinions, with nothing more than spite to support it.

There are people who comment on forums, who do have life experience ... maccamax is clearly one of them, and handles all of the nutters with a hand behind his back.

You would be well advised to at least consider their opinions, do some research, and not be so naive as to believe everything you see on "the best investigative programme on Australian TV" ... it may well be the "best in the world", but the bar is not set very high!Dead


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

insightful *


I see you frothing at the mouth, furiously banging away at your reply, sorry but I gotta go out, have fun Dr E Wink

What, to the lounge room?


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Leftist, Marxist wingnuts. 3 word slogan there for you Dr......


You, sadly, are a lost cause ... if only you could have been introduced to a Correctional Facility at the appropriate time ...


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Go Flash Go
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:46pm

Another 4 Corners set-up ... the rack ! ... not the rack ! ... no please not the rack this time !!! LOL  ..... now what was that show.

Anyway what happened to the live animals that were stopped in reaction to that other "4 Corners expose" ...Oh yes they died miserable deaths wandering around in the Australian outback Clap great poutcome.
 
Anyhow Macca's on the money as usual in this area only one with half a clue about what's involved.
 
Won't go into that kids mental makeup/history only good luck to anyone trying to address it in the NT. There are some in Victoria that have half a clue but even they struggle and it gets progressively worse as you go further North.
 
Rubbish Journalism from a desperate lot (again)
 
PS dear trollies - don't bother Wink
 
 


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:47pm
Don't believe Malcolm Turnbull agrees with you on any level.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:57pm

Dylan Voller has instructed us to release this letter:




Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Leftist, Marxist wingnuts. 3 word slogan there for you Dr......


You, sadly, are a lost cause ... if only you could have been introduced to a Correctional Facility at the appropriate time ...
 
 
As long as you are next door at the asylum.......


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:03pm
sorry didnt come through. Shame. Dylan has more understanding than some on here.....[who wasnt young once]


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

insightful *


I see you frothing at the mouth, furiously banging away at your reply, sorry but I gotta go out, have fun Dr E Wink


Another lefty who cant discuss the topic.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Leftist, Marxist wingnuts. 3 word slogan there for you Dr......


You, sadly, are a lost cause ... if only you could have been introduced to a Correctional Facility at the appropriate time ...
 
 
As long as you are next door at the asylum.......

... have a tailor working on my straight jacket as we speak ... 


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

sorry didnt come through. Shame. Dylan has more understanding than some on here.....[who wasnt young once]

You believe that Dylan wrote that letter? 

The institutionalised ...  football-loving teenager who ended up committing a 24-hour crime spree while high on ice?

But the young teenager had a troubled past.

The youth worker told news.com.au that the then 14-year-old had “underlying trauma” and had been in trouble with the NT Police as a juvenile.

A youth justice advocacy project worker had reported that Voller had suffered “anger issues” and had a “propensity to spit”.

Then on February 7, 2014, Voller got drunk and “high on ice” and with two other young men went on a 24-hour crime spree, attacking two men and a police officer.

It was during his incarceration following being found guilty for this series of incidents that Voller was placed in restraints and the spit hood in the now infamous Don Dale Youth Detention Centre in Darwin.



-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:21pm
Let's just wait until we see ALL of the video ... never came across a convicted criminal who wasn't "sorry" ... that he got caught.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:21pm
   These types of revelations have no real winners .      Government has no option , other than a Royal Commission.
   Understandable to expect revulsion to such an out of context programme.
 I'm not second guessing what merit is in the real story but from experience I can assure you , these areas of detention are a necessary evil and a far worse evil is to just have society wearing the criminal behaviour .    We have recently seen School Teachers removed from areas for their own safety in the north.
  Everyone is entitled to comment .    I have said my bit.
 Consider the consequences of not having areas to detain dangerous people .        There is no where available for the crazed,  drug induced psychotics now . We are paying an awful price for that.
  Hopefully the final outcome will have better results than the closing of the criminal sections of the Psychiatric system years ago.


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:22pm
Royal waste of money.


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:25pm
Notice this Voller was 17 when he went on his latest rampage ... they tend to get very ballsy if they are still minors, and think thet the consequence will not be big boy's prison.

-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Go Flash Go Go Flash Go wrote:

Another 4 Corners set-up ... the rack ! ... not the rack ! ... no please not the rack this time !!! LOL  ..... now what was that show.

Anyway what happened to the live animals that were stopped in reaction to that other "4 Corners expose" ...Oh yes they died miserable deaths wandering around in the Australian outback Clap great poutcome.
 
Anyhow Macca's on the money as usual in this area only one with half a clue about what's involved.
 
Won't go into that kids mental makeup/history only good luck to anyone trying to address it in the NT. There are some in Victoria that have half a clue but even they struggle and it gets progressively worse as you go further North.
 
Rubbish Journalism from a desperate lot (again)
 
PS dear trollies - don't bother Wink
 
 


from the resident god botherer you sure are a nasty piece of works..Confused





Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Good to see him elevating himself to insults.



compared to the hundreds,   thousands of insults you hurled at Gai that is nothing


That was a very impressive obsession of yours lasting many months Ouch

I take some notice of Macca but you seem to think I should accept everything he says. I don't think so, just because he is 82 and has worked in the health system , no way. Consider this, some who have worked in the health system have opposite views to him, who should I listen to ?


Posted By: Rattlesnake
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

sorry didnt come through. Shame. Dylan has more understanding than some on here.....[who wasnt young once]

You believe that Dylan wrote that letter? 

The institutionalised ...  football-loving teenager who ended up committing a 24-hour crime spree while high on ice?

But the young teenager had a troubled past.

The youth worker told news.com.au that the then 14-year-old had “underlying trauma” and had been in trouble with the NT Police as a juvenile.

A youth justice advocacy project worker had reported that Voller had suffered “anger issues” and had a “propensity to spit”.

Then on February 7, 2014, Voller got drunk and “high on ice” and with two other young men went on a 24-hour crime spree, attacking two men and a police officer.

It was during his incarceration following being found guilty for this series of incidents that Voller was placed in restraints and the spit hood in the now infamous Don Dale Youth Detention Centre in Darwin.



So in this instance, the inmate was;

- A known spitter

- A known violent offender

- A known drug user

There looks to be a number of logical reasons as to why a hood and wrist restraints may have been required.



Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 11:18pm
Its horrible being spat on by some person you dont even know.    I  had some wild arse young bloke spit on me, and I swear, I would have given heaps to be able to stick a spitters hood on him.  

-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 12:55am
They abused and tortured those kids, knowing it was filmed.

imagine what went on with no cameras to record....



Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 1:38am
Video of Voller being stripped naked and abused by authorities when he was 11, and continued abuse at 13 and 14 and so on, and people still want to blame the kid......


Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 1:49am
Where was the mother and father? Woeful parents


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

sorry didnt come through. Shame. Dylan has more understanding than some on here.....[who wasnt young once]

You believe that Dylan wrote that letter? 

The institutionalised ...  football-loving teenager who ended up committing a 24-hour crime spree while high on ice?

But the young teenager had a troubled past.

The youth worker told news.com.au that the then 14-year-old had “underlying trauma” and had been in trouble with the NT Police as a juvenile.

A youth justice advocacy project worker had reported that Voller had suffered “anger issues” and had a “propensity to spit”.

Then on February 7, 2014, Voller got drunk and “high on ice” and with two other young men went on a 24-hour crime spree, attacking two men and a police officer.

It was during his incarceration following being found guilty for this series of incidents that Voller was placed in restraints and the spit hood in the now infamous Don Dale Youth Detention Centre in Darwin.



So in this instance, the inmate was;

- A known spitter

- A known violent offender

- A known drug user

There looks to be a number of logical reasons as to why a hood and wrist restraints may have been required.

4 Corners obviously didn't think the fact that Voller had threatened to break his own hand so he could go to hospital, and was a habitual spitter, was relevant to him being hooded and restrained ... the Taxpayer funded 60 Minutes, as bad as Q&ADead


-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: Dr E
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 4:01am
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Good to see him elevating himself to insults.



compared to the hundreds,   thousands of insults you hurled at Gai that is nothing


That was a very impressive obsession of yours lasting many months Ouch

I take some notice of Macca but you seem to think I should accept everything he says. I don't think so, just because he is 82 and has worked in the health system , no way. Consider this, some who have worked in the health system have opposite views to him, who should I listen to ?

Firstly, don't tell me you're a "Gai Defender" (gay deceiver granted) that would answer a lot of questions ... how many minorities do you need to be a part of Whale!?Confused

Secondly, I challenge you to point out the "thousands" of insults, that you lie about (I've told you a million times not to exaggerate by the way!) ... it can hardly be insulting if it is true ... just cite one comment that was not factual ... that would be sufficient.

Finally, PLEASE make a comment or statement about SOMETHING that you know about, I BEG OF YOU ... rather than just disagreeing for the sake of it ... that is just boring and juvenile ... there is virtually nothing edifying, intuitive, constructive or interesting in any of your whinging whining posts.

I'm certain there is something you have authoritative, or even anecdotal knowledge of that you could share, even if it's just your favourite Pokemon! 

By the way, how is the weather in "Broome" ... or is that rhyming slang for "your room" ...Wink



-------------
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:33am
Originally posted by gogos gogos wrote:

No cane
Drunk parents

Who is going to discipline these kids?


you recognise the absence of parenting, the dysfunctional childhood and i assume his mental health issues as a child??? Did you bother to get that far?

Yet still see this as a cut and dried case of an out of control criminal (not kid) that needs to be tortured, abused and assaulted. and whatever ounce of dignity he had needed to be destroyed.

And you call that discipline.



Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:40am
[million times not to exaggerate by the way!) ... it can hardly be insulting if it is true ... just cite one comment that was not factual ... that would be sufficient.

Finally, PLEASE make a comment or statement about SOMETHING that you know about, I BEG OF YOU ... rather than just disagreeing for the sake of it ... that is just boring and juvenile ... there is virtually nothing edifying, intuitive, constructive or interesting in any of your whinging whining posts.

I'm certain there is something you have authoritative, or even anecdotal knowledge of that you could share, even if it's just your favourite Pokemon! 

By the way, how is the weather in "Broome" ... or is that rhyming slang for "your room" ...Wink

[/QUOTE]

I stated my oinion about what I saw as barbaric practices, sorry next time I will PM you to see if I am allowed to have an opinion.  I guess the 90^% of people who agree with me are wrong,  Turnbull, Scullion, they have no life experience ,should consult you and Macca before making any pronouncements.

 I  am now a big fan of Pauline Hanson's too Smile




Posted By: Rattlesnake
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:41am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Video of Voller being stripped naked and abused by authorities when he was 11, and continued abuse at 13 and 14 and so on, and people still want to blame the kid......

Detention centers have procedures in place when an inmate threatens self harm.

One of those procedures in this case was to remove the inmate's clothing to reduce risk of self harm.

If corrections staff didn't follow procedure and the inmate managed to kill himself, you'd be the first person on here complaining about the injustice of it all because procedure wasn't followed.

There may also be culpability issues for correctional staff if they knew the inmate threatened self harm, did not remove their clothing as procedure directed, and the clothing was used by the inmate to harm themselves.

If the inmate refuses to comply with directions to remove their clothing, force obviously needs to be used. You can't wish clothing off somebody. A hashtag wouldn't help either.

When harsh reality of a violent/confrontational situation clashes with the opinions formed by people after watching a few moments of CCTV and having no understanding of the circumstances.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:41am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:


   These types of revelations have no real winners .      Government has no option , other than a Royal Commission.
   Understandable to expect revulsion to such an out of context programme.
 I'm not second guessing what merit is in the real story but from experience I can assure you , these areas of detention are a necessary evil and a far worse evil is to just have society wearing the criminal behaviour .    We have recently seen School Teachers removed from areas for their own safety in the north.
  Everyone is entitled to comment .    I have said my bit.
 Consider the consequences of not having areas to detain dangerous people .        There is no where available for the crazed,  drug induced psychotics now . We are paying an awful price for that.
  Hopefully the final outcome will have better results than the closing of the criminal sections of the Psychiatric system years ago.


at any point, is juvenile detention about trying to help these kids turn it all around?...as hard as it may be? are kids a little different to adults?

You say that method of behavour is a "necessary evil" . evil behaviour will accomplish what? the more evil the "discipline" the better dylan will be afterwards?? hows all this worked so far max?



Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 10:58am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by gogos gogos wrote:

No cane
Drunk parents

Who is going to discipline these kids?


you recognise the absence of parenting, the dysfunctional childhood and i assume his mental health issues as a child??? Did you bother to get that far?

Yet still see this as a cut and dried case of an out of control criminal (not kid) that needs to be tortured, abused and assaulted. and whatever ounce of dignity he had needed to be destroyed.

And you call that discipline.



The parents need to be flogged and fined. They are responsible.


Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:00am
This "carer" missed his calling. Try prison guard. Should be better scrutiny of staff for these places, including detention centres. Some of the blokes at Don Dale looked like bouncers. Fancy needing that brawn to tackle an 11 year old.

 Hidden camera captures abuse, apparent suffocation attempt of elderly man in Adelaide nursing home
JULY 26, 20165:14PM
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Hidden camera reveals disturbing elder abuse.

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THE daughter of an elderly man subjected to a shocking attack by a carer says monitoring devices such as CCTV should be allowed in bedrooms in nursing homes and other institutions to protect the vulnerable.

Hidden camera footage taken by Noleen Hausler shows a carer appearing to try to “suffocate” her father, Clarence, 89, at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility.

The video,  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/secret-camera-captures-nursing-home-attempted-suffocation/7624770" rel="nofollow - aired Monday night on the ABC’s  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/secret-camera-captures-nursing-home-attempted-suffocation/7624770" rel="nofollow - 7.30 , shows Mr Hausler fighting back as the carer repeatedly stuffs a napkin in his mouth and over his nose in September last year.

It also shows the carer violently force-feeding Mr Hausler, sneezing on him and hitting him on the head. Mr Hausler is bedridden with dementia.

The carer, Corey Lyle Lucas, 29, of Camden Park, pleaded guilty in the Adelaide Magistrates Court to two counts of aggravated assault and was convicted last month. He received a six-month jail sentence, with one month imprisonment.

The remainder was suspended on the condition he complete a 18-month good behaviour bond.

Hidden camera captures abuse at Adelaide nursing home

Ms Hausler told The Advertiser she believed Lucas would have served only “a matter of weeks”.

Ms Hausler took the drastic step of hiding a camera after becoming increasingly concerned about her father’s behaviour and noticing he had bruising and bloodshot eyes from crying.

Dissatisfied with the home’s response to her and worried about the carer’s evasive manner, she hid the tiny spy camera in her father’s room and was devastated to see the shocking abuse in what was supposed to be a sanctuary, reporting it to Sturt Police.

Rather than thanking her for exposing the violent abuse, home operator Japara Healthcare threatened Ms Hausler with breaching the Privacy Act, Video Surveillance Act and the Aged Care acts.

“I’ve been told if I put a camera in there again, it will be confiscated and the police will be called,” Ms Hausler said.

Dementia patient Clarence Hausler, suffered abuse at the hands of his carer.

Dementia patient Clarence Hausler, suffered abuse at the hands of his carer.Source:Supplied

Corey Lucas.

Corey Lucas.Source:Supplied

“I’ve kept my father at Mitcham because I think it was the person doing this despicable acts rather than the institution, but we need change — I would like to see a clause in the tenancy agreement that says if a family has concerns they can put monitoring equipment in.”

Ms Hausler said she released the vision to the media as a last resort.

“I asked for a meeting with Attorney-General John Rau to go through what is actually allowed and what the various acts stipulate as far as using a monitor goes but received a letter saying a meeting was not appropriate and to seek legal advice instead,” she said.

“I want to see change — these people are sitting targets for people who feel the power to abuse them in the privacy of a bedroom.

Secret camera captures nursing home staff member appearing to attempt to suffocate 87-year-old. Tonight on https://twitter.com/hashtag/abc730?src=hash" rel="nofollow - #abc730 https://t.co/mtoFOvPnhW" rel="nofollow - https://t.co/mtoFOvPnhW

— abc730 (@abc730)  https://twitter.com/abc730/status/757464017170378752" rel="nofollow - July 25, 2016

“That abuse can take many forms and the victims don’t have a voice — monitoring equipment would give them that voice and protect them from deplorable behaviour.

“Facilities doing the right thing can still have grey areas and you won’t get change unless families are allowed to put monitoring equipment in private rooms.”

Premier Jay Weatherill on Tuesday said authorities should “consider all options”, including surveillance monitoring, to ensure aged care residents were safe.

“I understand the person involved (in the abuse of Mr Hausler) has been dealt with through the criminal justice system but I think we need other safeguards,” Mr Weatherill said.

“There obviously needs to be the training and monitoring of the way in which people are employed and screened for employment, but I think we do need to give consideration for other technological measures.

Corey Lucas. Pic: Facebook

Corey Lucas. Pic: FacebookSource:Supplied

“We’re certainly prepared to engage in a discussion with the Commonwealth Government about the matter.”

Mr Weatherill said people should be able to trust paid carers with the welfare of older relatives.

“When we put our loved ones in aged care facilities they’re only there because they are too frail to be cared for at home - that means they are inherently vulnerable,” he said.

“What we rely on is that they are going to be cared for there and we certainly expect that they will not be the subject of abuse.”

The State Opposition said it would support allowing surveillance cameras in aged care facilities.

Opposition Deputy Leader Vickie Chapman said on Tuesday that it was “appalling” that elderly residents were being “abused in their own homes” .

It was “clear that we need o introduce legislation to allow surveillance devices to be used to help prevent (this) abuse”, she said.

Ms Chapman said nursing home residents should be able to install video equipment in their rooms to protect themselves - even though the property was owned by someone else.

She said this should be done at the instigation of the resident and with the consent of their guardian, if necessary.

Notice should be given to the operators of the nursing home and signs erected to warn people that they would be filmed, Ms Chapman said.

However it was not clear if the permission of the aged care facility owner should be needed.

It was also unclear who should be responsible for operating the surveillance camera and monitoring the recordings if the resident was unable to do it themselves.

Ms Chapman said the Opposition was seeking a meeting with the Government to flesh out the detail of any proposed legislation.

Asked about the legality of making such a covert recording, Ms Chapman said changes could be needed to the Surveillance Devices Act to state that recordings made to protect aged care residents were inherently in the public interest.

Federal Assistant Health and Aged Care Minister Ken Wyatt said he would be willing to see cameras installed in residents’ rooms, provided that the residents agreed and state laws were complied with.

​”The issue surrounding the usage of surveillance devices, including cameras in residents’ rooms, is a matter for the approved provider and relevant care recipient and is governed by the relevant state and territory legislation​,’’ Mr Wyatt said.​”​

“Under Commonwealth law, aged care providers must balance each care recipient’s right to privacy and dignity with the care recipient’s right to live without exploitation and abuse.”​

​Mr Wyatt said the Mitcham home had met a requirement to inform the Federal Department of Health within 24 hours of the attack on Mr Hausler occurring.

Mr Wyatt said he was very concerned about the care of Mr Hausler and anyone with concerns about aged care services should contact the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner.

Mr Rau on Monday would not comment on the case, but said that if the operators of a care facility and family agreed to installing a surveillance device, “that would be a matter for them”.

“If they did not agree and a device was installed covertly the family would need legal advice,” he said.

“A provision is made in the surveillance act for a covert device if it is in the public interest. The Crown does not provide private citizens with legal advice, so again it would be a matter for the family.”

A still taken from the shocking footage, appearing to document the abuse of elderly man Clarence Hausler. Picture: Noleen Hausler/7.30.

A still taken from the shocking footage, appearing to document the abuse of elderly man Clarence Hausler. Picture: Noleen Hausler/7.30.Source:Supplied

Mr Hausler has been at the facility since 2002 when it was run by Whelan Care.

The Hauslers’ lawyer, Adair Donaldson, of abuse survivor specialists Donaldson Law, agreed the best way to protect vulnerable people was installation of monitoring equipment.

“We were all shocked when we saw the video — you can imagine how Ms Hausler felt,” he said.

“It is every child’s worst nightmare to see your elderly parent abused, just as having your child abused is every parent’s nightmare.

“The home’s operators will say it was a rogue, but what we need — to make sure rogues are weeded out — is the ability to put in monitoring equipment to protect the most vulnerable.”

Mitcham Residential Care referred inquiries to the Melbourne head office.

In a statement, an Aged Care Services Australia Group spokeswoman said the company was “shocked, concerned and saddened” to learn of the incident in September 2015.

“This was a rogue act by someone who has now been criminally prosecuted,” she said.

“This conduct is not tolerated by our organisation and is completely at odds with the care, dedication and commitment displayed by the over 4,500 nurses, carers and other staff across our homes every day.

“We reiterate our sincere apologies to the resident and his family.

“As soon as we became aware of the incident, the individual was immediately suspended and we have assisted with the police investigation which has since led to a conviction.

“The provision of high quality care to our residents is our absolute priority. When we purchased the business from Whelan Care, we took over all of their staff and we have subsequently increased overall staffing levels.

“The issue of whether cameras should be permitted in residents’ private bedrooms and bathrooms is an extremely complex one, especially as many residents are toileted, changed and showered in these areas.

“It raises important questions about consent, and the privacy and dignity of all residents.

“While we have cameras in common areas in our homes, we don’t have any plans to introduce them into residents’ private bedrooms and bathrooms.”

The company sent Ms Hausler a letter of apology after their initial threats about her breaching various acts.

An Aged Care Complaints Commissioner spokeswoman said under the Aged Care Act they could not give any information about whether action had been taken against Japara Healthcare or the facility.

“We can’t even acknowledge whether there has been a case,” she said.

The Mitcham Residential Care Facility where the assault occurred. Picture: Tait Schmaal

The Mitcham Residential Care Facility where the assault occurred. Picture: Tait SchmaalSource:News Corp Australia

Staff arriving at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility on Tuesday declined to comment about the incident.

A private GP, who has visited the home for almost 10 years, said “it was appalling to think that that could happen to any of our elderly residents”.

“I was absolutely sickened,” she said. “No human could feel any other way.”

John Rattley, 75, from Gilberton, regularly visited his 91-year-old uncle at the facility.

He said he was first alerted to the incident involving Lucas when he received a phone call from his sister in Melbourne on Monday night.

“We didn’t know about it at all,” he said.

Mr Rattley said the revelation came as a shock because his uncle and late aunt had experienced good care over the past six years.

He commended Mr Hausler’s daughter for coming forward and said the legalisation of CCTV cameras in private rooms was “inevitable”.

“I think (Noleen) was very brave, given that it’s a law that’s been completely overlooked,” he said.

“The people here are very frail, and I think it is a wake up call for the industry - perhaps they should have video surveillance.”

John Rattley regularly visits his uncle at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility. Picture: Tait Schmaal

John Rattley regularly visits his uncle at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility. Picture: Tait SchmaalSource:News Corp Australia

Mr Rattley said the home had informed him about incidents involving his uncle, including several times he has fallen out of bed, and when he jarred his hand against a door on Monday.

“He’s happy and he’s well cared for, that’s why it was a real shock - the people are really good there ... (the incident was) just one bad egg,” he said.

The brother of another resident said the incident was “concerning for me for all the facilities every where”.

Kevin Shizabi, who delivers medication to the facility, said he was shocked to see the patient, who he recognized, assaulted.

He said, as a worker, it would be fine if he was filmed while on the property, and that the installation of private CCTV cameras in resident’s rooms should be legalized.

“I’d be for that, definitely, it would be a deterrent for carers, and even carers who go into people’s homes to make sure they don’t do anything like that,” he said.

Corey Lucas’s neighbour Alison Rogers speaks to the media. Picture: Mike Burton

Corey Lucas’s neighbour Alison Rogers speaks to the media. Picture: Mike BurtonSource:Supplied

Neighbour Alison Rodgers on Tuesday told The Advertiser that Lucas had lived in the same apartment block for two years but she had not seen him for about two weeks.

She knew he worked at an aged care facility and did not believe he was capable of harming a vulnerable person until she saw the video of his actions.

“It was pretty shocking ... I would never think he’d do something like that. He’s normally quite nice,” she said.

“It’s just really upsetting. If you see something like that happening to one of your relatives you’d be pretty upset.

“Seeing someone doing so thing like that to an elderly person.

“I don’t really know the whole story ... it looked pretty shocking.

“For someone to do that to an old person who appeared to have dementia.’

Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”

Ms Rodgers said Lucas told her about a month ago that he was going to Victoria for holidays and had been away for several weeks.

Originally published as  http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/hidden-camera-captures-abuse-suffocation-attempt-of-elderly-man-in-adelaide-nursing-home/news-story/4c3c440a0ead0440207dcd1a04f14993" rel="nofollow - Calls grow for nursing home cameras

 



Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:04am
Except for the fact it says care facilities, this could be a prison,youth detention etc

Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”



Posted By: gogos
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Except for the fact it says care facilities, this could be a prison,youth detention etc
<p style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 19px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 14px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; word-wrap: break-word; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

<p style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 19px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 14px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; word-wrap: break-word; : rgb251, 251, 253;">“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”



Getting to the stage of putting cameras everywhere but old people need privacy.

Sad that familes can't look after their own.



Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:54am
Another who missed his calling..........Confused

An international martial arts champion has been accused of choking his 11-year-old stepdaughter so hard she blacked out — before he was arrested wearing a wetsuit and allegedly possessing an unlicensed starter pistol.

Graham Samuel Downey, 43, has competed and won honours at national and international wushu, or kung-fu, competitions, but until yesterday was in custody on charges relating to an alleged assault on his stepdaughter this year.

Graham Downey won silver medals in the World Traditional Wushu Championships in China in 2014. Picture: Facebook

Armadale Magistrate’s Court was told Mr Downey was in the grip of a drug-induced psychosis — brought on by a cocktail of prescription painkillers, methylamphetamine, cannabis and alcohol — when he went into his stepdaughter’s bedroom as she slept at 3am.

Police say he then placed a chokehold around the girl’s neck and under her chin, which caused her to pass out and was so rigorous it burst several blood vessels in her eyes.

Mr Downey then allegedly left the girl, before coming to his senses and trying to shake her awake.

After Mr Downey phoned his partner to tell her what he had done, police attended the Armadale address to find him dressed in a wetsuit.

He also allegedly had illicit drugs and drug paraphernalia and the starting pistol.

During a bail application yesterday, prosecutors argued the offence was extremely serious given Mr Downey’s martial arts background.

Police said there was also no guarantee the alleged drug use and violence would not happen again.


Defence lawyer Jeremy Scudds told the court Mr Downey had no history of violence and had an extremely close relationship with his stepdaughter — so close that she had even written to the court saying she forgave him. “He realises that something went wrong, and he wants to do something about it,” Mr Scudds said.

“And the fact he was arrested in a wetsuit goes to illustrate the state he was in.”

Mr Downey competed in the 2014 World Traditional Wushu Championships in China, winning two silver medals in the nanquan and double weapon disciplines.

A back injury had meant an increasing reliance on strong painkillers, the court was told.

Mr Downey wept as the allegations were aired in court and said he was concerned about the welfare of his tropical fish.

Magistrate Stephen Wilson granted Mr Downey $6000 bail with strict conditions he not contact his stepdaughter, or go within 100m of her and to report daily to police.

He will also have to have regular drug tests.

Mr Downey will appear in court again next month.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/" rel="nofollow">The West Australian
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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 1:08pm
    Unfortunately there are  terrible scenes in so many areas of life .     Some may be unavoidable , others over the top .
    Before anyone comments further on the activities at the N>T gaol ,  I suggest they view the debate on Paul Murray Live 26/7/2016.
    Included on the panel is Warren Mundine ,   a senior Aboriginal welfare & Government worker of vast experience .
 Accepted as a great man & realistic .     Together with 3 other members of the panel he dissects every area of the problems in the communities in question.
    We may have more understanding of the situation and what can be done .
  He also mentions Aurukun , another area where young Aboriginal youth ,  parade the streets with machetes ,   few  kids can be encouraged to attend school and these societies are completely broken down.
   I admire his concerns and understanding of the true picture.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 3:08pm
Warren Mundine is seen as a great man? lol.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Warren Mundine is seen as a great man? lol.
 
 
  Respected may have been a better term but  either way if you have any reasons to disagree ,     I would be very interested to hear them .
    He doesn't condone "over the top" reactions from Officers but he   acknowledges the difficulty in managing marauding , murdering,  rapists  who are totally out of control in many communities ( mainly aboriginal ) as he states.         Some as young as 12 , some much older.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:01pm
I read a story/article awhile back by some expert in juvenile problems.   His take was most of these kids are coming from dysfunctional welfare dependent homes, and to break the cycle , if you want welfare you use contraceptives.   Makes sense to me, instead of breeding all these kids that have very little chance from the day they are born, with druggie mothers and hopeless fathers who are gone before the baby even is born. Remove the kids from these homes so they have a chance ( shades of stolen generations here so could never see that happening ). 
What he said made good sense to me, but I suppose that would be infringing on these dysfunctional families rights, so it will never happen.  Just be more and more kids born into drugs and abuse, with no chance of preventing it, and no chance of removing them for their own protection .
Hardly a week goes by now we dont hear of some boyfriend bashing a child to death with its mother lets him.  


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Video of Voller being stripped naked and abused by authorities when he was 11, and continued abuse at 13 and 14 and so on, and people still want to blame the kid......

Detention centers have procedures in place when an inmate threatens self harm.

One of those procedures in this case was to remove the inmate's clothing to reduce risk of self harm.

If corrections staff didn't follow procedure and the inmate managed to kill himself, you'd be the first person on here complaining about the injustice of it all because procedure wasn't followed.

There may also be culpability issues for correctional staff if they knew the inmate threatened self harm, did not remove their clothing as procedure directed, and the clothing was used by the inmate to harm themselves.

If the inmate refuses to comply with directions to remove their clothing, force obviously needs to be used. You can't wish clothing off somebody. A hashtag wouldn't help either.

When harsh reality of a violent/confrontational situation clashes with the opinions formed by people after watching a few moments of CCTV and having no understanding of the circumstances.
 
 
My god you are  a piece of work. He was 11 years old. 11. Would love to see any father take the side of the correctional staff when it was his 11 year old treated so disgracefully.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:25pm
And bugger off with your hashtag jibe. I am not a fan of that pointless nonsense either. You are just lacking in human decency.



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