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Toronado To Swettenham

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Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=54579
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Topic: Toronado To Swettenham
Posted By: Gay3
Subject: Toronado To Swettenham
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2015 at 11:29am
True Class Comes to Victoria
Tara Madgwick - Wednesday, 3 June 2015
European Group I feature mile races produce some of the best turf performers on the planet each year with this superstar of 2013/2014 headed to Australia for the first time this spring.

The loss of outstanding sire High Chaparral (IRE) has been highlighted this season with eight Australian stakes-winners sired by the Epsom Derby winner headed by Group I winners Contributer and Fenway as well as potential spring stars Alpine Eagle, Hi World and the Queensland Derby contender Sadler’s Lake, so it’s little wonder http://www.swettenham.com.au/" rel="nofollow - Swettenham Stud were quick to add his very best European son http://www.swettenham.com.au/#%21toronado/cwc9" rel="nofollow - Toronado (IRE) to their roster for 2015.

Toronado
Toronado
like so many of the best Australasian bred progeny of High Chaparral, Toronado had an electric turn of foot and was best placed at a mile claiming the crown of Joint Champion 3YO Miler in Europe for 2013.

A brilliant unbeaten juvenile, who won each of his three starts at two highlighted by a win in the Group II Champagne Stakes at Doncaster, the Richard Hannon trained colt returned at three to contest all the very best mile races.

Fourth in the Group I English 2,000 Guineas to Dawn Approach and then a short head second to the same colt at Royal Ascot in the Group I St James’s Palace Stakes, Toronado turned the tables on his arch rival to score a memorable win in the Group I Sussex Strakes at Goodwood with another high class older miler in Declaration of War some two and a half lengths back in third place.

Returning at four, Toronado captured the Group I Queen Anne Stakes at Royal Ascot beating the highly rated US bred More Than Ready stallion Verrazano comfortably by three-quarters of a length and then finished second to a couple of high class three year-old colts in Kingman and Charm Spirit in the Group I Sussex Stakes at Goodwood and Group I Prix du Moulin de Longchamp.

Toronado retired with six wins and three seconds from just 12 starts and is currently covering his first book of mares at the National Stud at Newmarket.

High Chaparral
High Chaparral
The first son of High Chaparral to stand in Victoria, http://www.swettenham.com.au/#%21toronado/cwc9" rel="nofollow - Toronado has been priced competitively at $22,000 for a stallion with his imposing race record and comes from an intriguing Black Type female family that is not unfamiliar to Australian breeders.

A two time winner in France by US speed sire Grand Slam, his dam Wana Doo is from stakes-winner Wedding Gift, who is a half-sister to the very good broodmare Black Tokk (Fr), who found her way to Australia in 1987.

Black Tokk left Group I SAJC Goodwood Handicap winner French Clock and stakes-winner Dream About It, the grand-dam of dual Group I winner and $1.6 million earner Heart of Dreams and Group III winner Rightfully Yours.

Other notable Aussie horses in the pedigree are Group III winners Red Typhoon and Fast Future as well as stakes-winner Ladybird Blue, who was also from Black Tokk.

The success of this female family in Australia under our unique conditions, coupled with the achievements of High Chaparral in this part of the world make it hard not to think Toronado is the ideal prospect to continue the success of the Sadler’s Wells sire dynasty which has proven so dominant right around the world in recent years.

Sadler’s Wells sire sons Galileo and Montjeu have both proven themselves capable of siring Group I producing sires, while his US based son El Prado has given us Medaglia D’Oro, the sire of this year’s Golden Slipper winner Vancouver.

High Chaparral now has several of his best sons at stud and is poised to follow suit as a sire of sires with Toronado offering Victorian breeders an outstanding opportunity to access one of the best sirelines in the world today at Swettenham Stud.

Blessed with the good looks that have made the progeny of his sire so popular, both on the racetrack and in the sale ring, Toronado is ready to pick up right where High Chaparral left off.

We’ll leave the last word on Toronado to respected English agent John Warren, who has become a regular at Australian yearling sales.

"Toronado is a magnificent correct individual with tremendous muscle definition which is why he was such a fast horse. He is the fastest and most precocious son of High Chaparral and his 2yo winning dam is by the brilliantly fast dual Gr.1 winning 2yo Grand Slam (Gone West). He looks the perfect horse for Australia with the combination of his pedigree, powerful physique and high class performances.”


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!



Replies:
Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2015 at 1:56pm
Do like this boy. I am sure he will make it. 


Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 7:45am
He's a ripping type. Saw him in Newmarket last month. He should leave a good sort for a start.

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Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory...


Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 9:29am
Originally posted by brogers brogers wrote:

He's a ripping type. Saw him in Newmarket last month. He should leave a good sort for a start.

Totally agree. Also raced against what was a very good crop in Dawn Approach, Verrazano, Kingman etc.




Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 3:54pm
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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 5:34pm
Like him also.
 
But balked at booking into him at $22k solely on the basis that his dam's only other winning progeny was successful in a lowly Maiden Steeple in Italy.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 6:14pm
I wouldn't worry too much Second Chance.  I hark back to Star Kingdom.  Nothing close to him but a wonderful female line back past the 5th generation.

We don't have to go back that far here to find Vaguely Noble.  Another a bit further is Pandour who was a pretty good stallion out here.

You can't make female line class appear out of nowhere but it can go to sleep for a few generations sometimes.  But if you get a good one he has got the good genes on offer and hopefully will pass those on.


Posted By: Slipper
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 9:45pm
I love this horse! I'm just sorry I don't have $22k.


Posted By: troppo75
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2015 at 11:35am
he looks great

bit of a grimace reading that gone west is good for australia... either im heavily biased but I cant think of many sires with gone west who have done well out here? Might be one or two.. but he wouldn't be a spruik aspect for me




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Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!


Posted By: JadeLace
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2015 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

he looks great

bit of a grimace reading that gone west is good for australia... either im heavily biased but I cant think of many sires with gone west who have done well out here? Might be one or two.. but he wouldn't be a spruik aspect for me



West Quest formally from Armidale is Tassie, he did a phenomenal job considering he never got to have the cream of the crop mares:RIP


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2015 at 8:53pm
Hello,
I noted that Toronado is from the same damline as Lombard (by Agio), bred and raced in Germany. hje ran until as 7 year old and was germ,any first "Galloping Millionaire". Unfortunatelxy he wasn't a great Sire, but his claim to fame he is the Sire of Allegretta.

Therefore I did a Hypomating Toronado (High Chapparal)/Lombard (Agio):
within 6 Generations they share Sdalers Wells, Mr. Prospector, ND, Nativer Dancer + 6x7 Belle Sauvage + HB Relko/Reliance

An interesting Feature in the ped of Sassafras (damline Toronado),
Barley Corn is bred 3x3 Serenissima.

As already mentioned Vaguely Noble is from the same damline, as
RB Chesne, Lead on Time, Paddy Return. Vaguely Noble sons are Ace of Aces, Empery, Gay Menece, Gonzales, Missisipian, Royal and Regal and Terreno, exported to NZ, just to name a few. Not to Forget his fillies Nobiliarity, Jet Ski Lady and of course Dahlia and her Sons.

regards, Ticino



Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 4:23pm
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Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 4:31pm
Apologies. Tried to post a photo of this equine god and stuffed it completely. Apparently they took a stack of orders after he paraded


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 2:00am
He looks unstoppable. I've got no skin in the game, but blind freddy could see what they've got here. I bet when he got off the float & had a look around the place, the staff at Swettenham must've felt like a footy club and the reincarnation of Tony Lockett just walked through the door.


Posted By: Off and racing
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 11:42pm
Very good value at the fee. This guy was an absolute superstar on the track. Hope he gets some big books and is back for many years to come. He is a big plus for Victoria. All class


Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 1:47pm
Did anyone send a mare to this fellow? Looking at photos of his foals they look incredible types... had a weanling in the northern hemisphere sell for over $300k the other day. Tempting proposition....

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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 2:50pm
Kristen Manning is pretty fastidious re matings & her group sent The French House, now positive, to him Smile

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2016 at 11:39am
Keep The Faith mares (presumably local to Swettenham's area) would duplicate Carduel through 3/4 siblings Always Fair & Duelling Girl... the cruel irony is that they might not be in the $22k price bracket.

Distance between stock might've gotten in the way of High Chap/Sunday Silence crosses, that & the possibility that they just didn't suit on type.... surely Swettenham would try?


Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2016 at 7:23pm
Wonder if that's a reason they were attracted to standing Trust in a Gust? Being by Keep The Faith, and having Storm Cat, an 8c family member that Family 1 seems to respond to... from looking at my mares family anyway lol..

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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.


Posted By: Roidz
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2016 at 9:23pm
Friends of mine have a Toronado colt. Ripper foal with a lot of presence and attitude. 


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:39pm


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 7:39pm
Kristen Manning has a lovely The French House filly foal which is a wonderful match Big smile


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 8:34pm


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 8:50pm
Will no doubt be shown the error of my ways quick smart, but can't quite see what a breeding consultant like KM would see in the Toronado - The French House match.  Confused

ps  the above photo of Toronado does him no justice whatsoever.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:08pm
Is sweetenhams stallion EQUIANO a flop? i see quite few around, need soft going as a rule. doesnt seem to be throwing many good ones.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:12pm
Unnamed  
Toronado (IRE)
Bay 2010
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Koblenza
1976
1966
2-o
1-n
Wana Doo
Bay 2000
Grand Slam
Bay or brown 1995
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Bright Candles
Chestnut 1987
El Gran Senor
Christmas Bonus
1981
1978
8-f
9-c
Wedding Gift
Bay or brown 1993
Always Fair
Bay 1985
Danzig
Carduel
1977
1978
7-a
19-b
Such Style
Bay 1977
Sassafras
Regal Lady
1967
1970
8-c
1-d
The French House (AUS)
Bay 2011
Dylan Thomas
Bay 2003
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Lagrion
Chestnut 1989
Diesis
Chestnut 1980
Sharpen Up
Doubly Sure
1969
1971
5-i
2-o
Wrap It Up
Chestnut 1979
Mount Hagen
Doc Nan
1971
1963
1-p
9-c
Deraismes
Brown 2003
Grand Lodge
Chestnut 1991
Chief's Crown
Bay 1982
Danzig
Six Crowns
1977
1976
7-a
23-b
La Papagena
Bay or brown 1983
Habitat
Magic Flute
1966
1968
4-r
14-b
Assertive Lady
Bay or brown 1993
Assert
Bay 1979
Be My Guest
Irish Bird
1974
1970
8-c
8-c
Cairene
Bay 1982
Artaius
Jem Jen
1974
1977
14-c
14-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m Danzig5m x 4m,5m


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Will no doubt be shown the error of my ways quick smart, but can't quite see what a breeding consultant like KM would see in the Toronado - The French House match.  Confused  

Thanks for the pedigree chart Djebel  Thumbs Up, one which would appear to support my reservations.


Posted By: Sir Gov
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Is sweetenhams stallion EQUIANO a flop? i see quite few around, need soft going as a rule. doesnt seem to be throwing many good ones.

Pretty avg. I am sure he hasnt returned?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:30pm
Why are we talking about Equiano?


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Sir Gov Sir Gov wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Is sweetenhams stallion EQUIANO a flop? i see quite few around, need soft going as a rule. doesnt seem to be throwing many good ones.


Pretty avg. I am sure he hasnt returned?


not sure, you could be right though. yeah...pretty avg i think.


Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 12:08pm
Tail female families 1 & 14 tend to work well together, from the research I've done on my own mare who is a family 1. I note Dylan Thomas and Grand Slam are both family 9-C mares cover by family 2 stallions, which possibly may like each others blood... then the French House on the tail, and Nearctic both trace to the same mare...

There's a bit going on there...


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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Will no doubt be shown the error of my ways quick smart, but can't quite see what a breeding consultant like KM would see in the Toronado - The French House match.  Confused

ps  the above photo of Toronado does him no justice whatsoever.


Ime, Kristen is a fan of duplicating Blue Hens & family affinities so the Doubly Sure dups & high incidence of the No. 2 families would have appealed along with almost all males on her side being carried by Toronado too.
Furious would no doubt manage to dissect her reasoning far better than I tho' Wink


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:21pm
Any chance of getting that pedigree blown up please Gay ?

I understand you probably would have if you could have but I thought I would ask anyway.




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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:43pm
I was hoping someone might suggest how as it's got me Censoreded Unhappy
The forum won't accept it as a copy/paste & I don't like the HTML format.
Might be better by going to View then Zoom, I'll try it.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:58pm
h Chaparral
1999
Sadler's Wells
1981
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
1954
Nearco
1935
Pharos
1920
Phalaris
Scapa Flow
1913 - 1-i
1914 - 13-e
Nogara
1928
Havresac II
Catnip
1915 - 8-h
1910 - 4-r
Lady Angela
1944
Hyperion
1930
Gainsborough
Selene
1915 - 2-n
1919 - 6-e
Sister Sarah
1930
Abbots Trace
Sarita
1917 - 4-j
1924 - 14-c
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
1950
Polynesian
1942
Unbreakable
Black Polly
1935 - 4-i
1936 - 14-a
Geisha
1943
Discovery
Miyako
1931 - 23-b
1935 - 5-f
Almahmoud
1947
Mahmoud
1933
Blenheim
Mah Mahal
1927 - 1-e
1928 - 9-c
Arbitrator
1937
Peace Chance
Mother Goose
1931 - 10-d
1922 - 2-d
Fairy Bridge
1975
Bold Reason
1968
Hail To Reason
1958
Turn-To
1951
Royal Charger
Source Sucree
1942 - 9-c
1940 - 1-w
Nothirdchance
1948
Blue Swords
Galla Colors
1940 - 7
1943 - 4-n
Lalun
1952
Djeddah
1945
Djebel
Djezima
1937 - 5-j
1933 - 13-c
Be Faithful
1942
Bimelech
Bloodroot
1937 - 1-x
1932 - 19-b
Special
1969
Forli
1963
Aristophanes
1948
Hyperion
Commotion
1930 - 6-e
1938 - 9-c
Trevisa
1951
Advocate
Veneta
1940 - 4-k
1940 - 3-b
Thong
1964
Nantallah
1953
Nasrullah
Shimmer
1940 - 9-c
1945 - 6
Rough Shod
1944
Gold Bridge
Dalmary
1929 - 22-d
1931 - 5-h
Kasora
1993
Darshaan
1981
Shirley Heights
1975
Mill Reef
1968
Never Bend
1960
Nasrullah
Lalun
1940 - 9-c
1952 - 19-b
Milan Mill
1962
Princequillo
Virginia Water
1940 - 1-b
1953 - 22-d
Hardiemma
1969
Hardicanute
1962
Hard Ridden
Harvest Maid
1955 - 16
1949 - 3-j
Grand Cross
1952
Grandmaster
Blue Cross
1942 - 1-k
1946 - 1-l
Delsy
1972
Abdos
1959
Arbar
1944
Djebel
Astronomie
1937 - 5-j
1932 - 9-e
Pretty Lady
1942
Umidwar
La Moqueuse
1931 - 3-e
1925 - 1-e
Kelty
1965
Venture VII
1957
Relic
Rose O'Lynn
1945 - 8-f
1944 - 7
Marilla
1957
Marsyas
Albanilla
1940 - 9-e
1951 - 13-c
Kozana
1982
Kris
1976
Sharpen Up
1969
Atan
1961
Native Dancer
Mixed Marriage
1950 - 5-f
1952 - 2-f
Rocchetta
1961
Rockefella
Chambiges
1941 - 7-a
1949 - 5-i
Doubly Sure
1971
Reliance
1962
Tantieme
Relance
1947 - 20-a
1952 - 16-h
Soft Angels
1963
Crepello
Sweet Angel
1954 - 16-d
1955 - 2-o
Koblenza
1966
Hugh Lupus
1952
Djebel
1937
Tourbillon
Loika
1928 - 13-c
1926 - 5-j
Sakountala
1942
Goya
Samos
1934 - 9-e
1932 - 19
Kalimara
1960
Norseman
1940
Umidwar
Tara
1931 - 3-e
1932 - 13-c
Montana
1943
Mirko
Indiara
1939 - 22-d
1935 - 1-n
Wana Doo
2000
Grand Slam
1995
Gone West
1984
Mr Prospector
1970
Raise A Native
1961
Native Dancer
1950
Polynesian
Geisha
1942 - 14-a
1943 - 5-f
Raise You
1946
Case Ace
Lady Glory
1934 - 1-k
1934 - 8-f
Gold Digger
1962
Nashua
1952
Nasrullah
Segula
1940 - 9-c
1942 - 3-m
Sequence
1946
Count Fleet
Miss Dogwood
1940 - 6
1939 - 13-c
Secrettame
1978
Secretariat
1970
Bold Ruler
1954
Nasrullah
Miss Disco
1940 - 9-c
1944 - 8-d
Somethingroyal
1952
Princequillo
Imperatrice
1940 - 1-b
1938 - 2-s
Tamerett
1962
Tim Tam
1955
Tom Fool
Two Lea
1949 - 3-j
1946 - 23-b
Mixed Marriage
1952
Tudor Minstrel
Persian Maid
1944 - 9-c
1947 - 2-f
Bright Candles
1987
El Gran Senor
1981
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935 - 4-r
1944 - 14-c
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950 - 5-f
1947 - 2-d
Sex Appeal
1970
Buckpasser
1963
Tom Fool
Busanda
1949 - 3-j
1947 - 1-x
Best In Show
1965
Traffic Judge
Stolen Hour
1952 - 3-n
1953 - 8-f
Christmas Bonus
1978
Key To The Mint
1969
Graustark
1963
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952 - 4-l
1952 - 4-d
Key Bridge
1959
Princequillo
Blue Banner
1940 - 1-b
1952 - 2-n
Sugar Plum Time
1972
Bold Ruler
1954
Nasrullah
Miss Disco
1940 - 9-c
1944 - 8-d
Plum Cake
1958
Ponder
Real Delight
1946 - 23
1949 - 9-c
Wedding Gift
1993
Always Fair
1985
Danzig
1977
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935 - 4-r
1944 - 14-c
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950 - 5-f
1947 - 2-d
Pas De Nom
1968
Admiral's Voyage
1959
Crafty Admiral
Olympia Lou
1948 - 8-c
1952 - 4-n
Petitioner
1952
Petition
Steady Aim
1944 - 16-h
1943 - 7-a
Carduel
1978
Buckpasser
1963
Tom Fool
1949
Menow
Gaga
1935 - 8-g
1942 - 3-j
Busanda
1947
War Admiral
Businesslike
1934 - 11-b
1939 - 1-x
Minstrelete
1973
Round Table
1954
Princequillo
Knight's Daughter
1940 - 1-b
1941 - 2-f
Gay Violin
1964
Sir Gaylord
Blue Violin
1959 - 2-s
1951 - 19-b
Such Style
1977
Sassafras
1967
Sheshoon
1956
Precipitation
1933
Hurry On
Double Life
1913 - 2-d
1926 - 2-i
Noorani
1950
Nearco
Empire Glory
1935 - 4-r
1933 - 14-a
Ruta
1960
Ratification
1953
Court Martial
Solesa
1942 - 1-p
1940 - 1-u
Dame D'Atour
1955
Cranach
Barley Corn
1938 - 12-e
1950 - 8-c
Regal Lady
1970
Relko
1960
Tanerko
1953
Tantieme
La Divine
1947 - 20-a
1943 - 12
Relance
1952
Relic
Polaire
1945 - 8-f
1947 - 16-h
Noble Lassie
1956
Nearco
1935
Pharos
Nogara
1920 - 13-e
1928 - 4-r
Belle Sauvage
1949
Big Game
Tropical Sun
1939 - 6-e
1940 - 1-d
TesioPower

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:59pm
onado
2010
High Chaparral
1999
Sadler's Wells
1981
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
1954
Nearco
1935
Pharos
Nogara
1920 - 13-e
1928 - 4-r
Lady Angela
1944
Hyperion
Sister Sarah
1930 - 6-e
1930 - 14-c
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
1950
Polynesian
Geisha
1942 - 14-a
1943 - 5-f
Almahmoud
1947
Mahmoud
Arbitrator
1933 - 9-c
1937 - 2-d
Fairy Bridge
1975
Bold Reason
1968
Hail To Reason
1958
Turn-To
Nothirdchance
1951 - 1-w
1948 - 4-n
Lalun
1952
Djeddah
Be Faithful
1945 - 13-c
1942 - 19-b
Special
1969
Forli
1963
Aristophanes
Trevisa
1948 - 9-c
1951 - 3-b
Thong
1964
Nantallah
Rough Shod
1953 - 6
1944 - 5-h
Kasora
1993
Darshaan
1981
Shirley Heights
1975
Mill Reef
1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960 - 19-b
1962 - 22-d
Hardiemma
1969
Hardicanute
Grand Cross
1962 - 3-j
1952 - 1-l
Delsy
1972
Abdos
1959
Arbar
Pretty Lady
1944 - 9-e
1942 - 1-e
Kelty
1965
Venture VII
Marilla
1957 - 7
1957 - 13-c
Kozana
1982
Kris
1976
Sharpen Up
1969
Atan
Rocchetta
1961 - 2-f
1961 - 5-i
Doubly Sure
1971
Reliance
Soft Angels
1962 - 16-h
1963 - 2-o
Koblenza
1966
Hugh Lupus
1952
Djebel
Sakountala
1937 - 5-j
1942 - 19
Kalimara
1960
Norseman
Montana
1940 - 13-c
1943 - 1-n
Wana Doo
2000
Grand Slam
1995
Gone West
1984
Mr Prospector
1970
Raise A Native
1961
Native Dancer
Raise You
1950 - 5-f
1946 - 8-f
Gold Digger
1962
Nashua
Sequence
1952 - 3-m
1946 - 13-c
Secrettame
1978
Secretariat
1970
Bold Ruler
Somethingroyal
1954 - 8-d
1952 - 2-s
Tamerett
1962
Tim Tam
Mixed Marriage
1955 - 23-b
1952 - 2-f
Bright Candles
1987
El Gran Senor
1981
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954 - 14-c
1957 - 2-d
Sex Appeal
1970
Buckpasser
Best In Show
1963 - 1-x
1965 - 8-f
Christmas Bonus
1978
Key To The Mint
1969
Graustark
Key Bridge
1963 - 4-d
1959 - 2-n
Sugar Plum Time
1972
Bold Ruler
Plum Cake
1954 - 8-d
1958 - 9-c
Wedding Gift
1993
Always Fair
1985
Danzig
1977
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954 - 14-c
1957 - 2-d
Pas De Nom
1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959 - 4-n
1952 - 7-a
Carduel
1978
Buckpasser
1963
Tom Fool
Busanda
1949 - 3-j
1947 - 1-x
Minstrelete
1973
Round Table
Gay Violin
1954 - 2-f
1964 - 19-b
Such Style
1977
Sassafras
1967
Sheshoon
1956
Precipitation
Noorani
1933 - 2-i
1950 - 14-a
Ruta
1960
Ratification
Dame D'Atour
1953 - 1-u
1955 - 8-c
Regal Lady
1970
Relko
1960
Tanerko
Relance
1953 - 12
1952 - 16-h
Noble Lassie
1956
Nearco
Belle Sauvage
1935 - 4-r
1949 - 1-d
The French House
2011
Dylan Thomas
2003
Danehill
1986
Danzig
1977
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935 - 4-r
1944 - 14-c
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950 - 5-f
1947 - 2-d
Pas De Nom
1968
Admiral's Voyage
1959
Crafty Admiral
Olympia Lou
1948 - 8-c
1952 - 4-n
Petitioner
1952
Petition
Steady Aim
1944 - 16-h
1943 - 7-a
Razyana
1981
His Majesty
1968
Ribot
1952
Tenerani
Romanella
1944 - 6-d
1943 - 4-l
Flower Bowl
1952
Alibhai
Flower Bed
1938 - 6-d
1946 - 4-d
Spring Adieu
1974
Buckpasser
1963
Tom Fool
Busanda
1949 - 3-j
1947 - 1-x
Natalma
1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950 - 5-f
1947 - 2-d
Lagrion
1989
Diesis
1980
Sharpen Up
1969
Atan
1961
Native Dancer
Mixed Marriage
1950 - 5-f
1952 - 2-f
Rocchetta
1961
Rockefella
Chambiges
1941 - 7-a
1949 - 5-i
Doubly Sure
1971
Reliance
1962
Tantieme
Relance
1947 - 20-a
1952 - 16-h
Soft Angels
1963
Crepello
Sweet Angel
1954 - 16-d
1955 - 2-o
Wrap It Up
1979
Mount Hagen
1971
Bold Bidder
1962
Bold Ruler
High Bid
1954 - 8-d
1956 - 3-n
Moonmadness
1963
Tom Fool
Sunset III
1949 - 3-j
1950 - 1-p
Doc Nan
1963
Francis S
1957
Royal Charger
Blue Eyed Momo
1942 - 9-c
1944 - 1-x
Betty W
1957
Mossborough
Doniazade
1947 - 6-e
1949 - 9
Deraismes
2003
Grand Lodge
1991
Chief's Crown
1982
Danzig
1977
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954 - 14-c
1957 - 2-d
Pas De Nom
1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959 - 4-n
1952 - 7-a
Six Crowns
1976
Secretariat
1970
Bold Ruler
Somethingroyal
1954 - 8-d
1952 - 2-s
Chris Evert
1971
Swoon's Son
Miss Carmie
1953 - 12
1966 - 23-b
La Papagena
1983
Habitat
1966
Sir Gaylord
1959
Turn-To
Somethingroyal
1951 - 1-w
1952 - 2-s
Little Hut
1952
Occupy
Savage Beauty
1941 - 23-b
1934 - 4-r
Magic Flute
1968
Tudor Melody
1956
Tudor Minstrel
Matelda
1944 - 9-c
1947 - 1-n
Filigrana
1953
Niccolo Dell'arca
Gamble In Gold
1938 - 4-r
1948 - 14-b
Assertive Lady
1993
Assert
1979
Be My Guest
1974
Northern Dancer
1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954 - 14-c
1957 - 2-d
What A Treat
1962
Tudor Minstrel
Rare Treat
1944 - 9-c
1952 - 8-c
Irish Bird
1970
Sea Bird
1962
Dan Cupid
Sicalade
1956 - 4-m
1956 - 2-n
Irish Lass
1962
Sayajirao
Scollata
1944 - 3-n
1952 - 8-c
Cairene
1982
Artaius
1974
Round Table
1954
Princequillo
Knight's Daughter
1940 - 1-b
1941 - 2-f
Stylish Pattern
1961
My Babu
Sunset Gun
1945 - 1-w
1955 - 14-c
Jem Jen
1977
Great Nephew
1963
Honeyway
Sybil's Niece
1941 - 9-h
1951 - 14-c
Io
1957
Tenerani
Fatimite
1944 - 6-d
1941 - 14-c


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 3:03pm
Yes I was going to suggest the Double Sure son cross but was off to the physio.  As well as the 14c sireling of Nearctic and 14c female line.  You see it more often as the sireline of the dam (in the 5th generation) and the damline of the sire.


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 11:03pm
Hello,
the third dam Cairene shows linebreeding to "Pretty Polly", Sire Artaius and damsire Great Nephew to PP and the damline is from the same branch of Fam. 14-c. Her daughter is by Assert tracing to Nearctic, more PP. Deraismes is by Grand Lodge, tracing to a Adula, a FS of Pretty Polly.
 
Toronado traces to "Belle Sauvage" Family of Vaguely Noble (Ace of Aces, Terreno, Gay Menece, Dahlia, etc.) and Lombard (Allegretta/Alya, Galileo, Sea the Stars, Adlerflug, etc.)
 
regards, Ticino


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 5:47pm
Redoutes mare with Toranado at foot - what a ripper Star

https://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2017+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/93" rel="nofollow - 93 B https://content.inglis.com.au/images/uploaded/vendors/images/xlarge/1512452946.e05bcb5acd.JPG" rel="nofollow - - Mare(+) https://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2017+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/93" rel="nofollow - Lanesborough http://www.bloodstock.com.au/bloodstock/stallion/redoute-s-choice-4?utm_source=stallionslinks&utm_medium=ingliswebsite" rel="nofollow - Redoute's Choice Kensington Gardens (NZ) http://www.threebridges.com.au" rel="nofollow - Three Bridges Thoroughbreds, Eddington

https://postimg.org/image/ly72dq5rb/" rel="nofollow">


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 5:57pm
This foal, or an older sibling depending on when the shot was taken, is Lot 474 in the Melbourne Premier.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Redoutes mare with Toranado at foot - what a ripper Star

https://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2017+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/93" rel="nofollow - 93 B https://content.inglis.com.au/images/uploaded/vendors/images/xlarge/1512452946.e05bcb5acd.JPG" rel="nofollow -
Pretty hard to lose out on $16k for that package.


Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 9:30pm
Gay    1) $16k does seem on the light side
 
          2) Check the Grand Slam part of the pedigree above.   Both Stud book & Stallions use the Gone West stallion


Posted By: Bi Carb
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Will no doubt be shown the error of my ways quick smart, but can't quite see what a breeding consultant like KM would see in the Toronado - The French House match.  Confused

ps  the above photo of Toronado does him no justice whatsoever.


Ime, Kristen is a fan of duplicating Blue Hens & family affinities so the Doubly Sure dups & high incidence of the No. 2 families would have appealed along with almost all males on her side being carried by Toronado too.
Furious would no doubt manage to dissect her reasoning far better than I tho' Wink
 
She has bred more slow horses than anyone in the last 20 years.
Everyone gets lucky every now and then.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 8:26am
Many thanks to Glencoe Thumbs Up whose eagle eye picked up a software data error in that TP had the wrong Grand Slam.
This has now been corrected in both above charts. 


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 11:13am
Sold 5 of 6 for $55k avg, including a $50k colt from the Arletty family.

Didn't see that coming.


Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 11:25am
Selling a lot lower than I would have thought. We had planned to send our girl last year but changed to Star Witness... glad we did now

-------------
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 3:06pm
I'm sure BiCarb she would also have more success if she had access to better mares.  We all know that things don't work 100% of the time but class helps with getting the better genes across.  If you have a non winning family and a winning family (same family but different branches) even with the best of intentions you'll still have more chances with the better winning family.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 3:40pm
I was most interested but went off him also, basically because this is his dam's record at stud other than Toronado:

Cherrington - unraced 4yo
Christmas Joy - unraced 6yo
Effect - last at its only start
Seventh Cloud - maiden from 10 starts
Wedding Dance - last at its only start
Wan - one win over Steeples in Italy.

That said, I do hope he makes it.




Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 3:43pm
2 weeks ago she broke thru' for 100 individual horses or winners (forget) & I remembered most of them, especially Wowee who I think was stakes winner or placed.
She's very astute off a tiny budget & Bonfire Night by Golden Snake won last week as well.


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2018 at 4:33pm
https://www.facebook.com/kristen.manning.376?hc_ref=ARR1M_VI2Y7PyW02DimCaHxv_O3TqIAF1yeSSNvgze9pPIpZMCD71eXIsPMYJ1mGDPY&fref=nf" rel="nofollow - Kristen Manning  to  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1121003457958633/?ref=nf_target&fref=nf" rel="nofollow - THE FRENCH HOUSE
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1121003457958633/permalink/1686488174743489/" rel="nofollow - - 3 hrs ·

As you all know I love sons of High Chaparral (aka Toronado) for Dylan Thomas mares such as our lovely girl! Dundeel is another great match but one we could not afford - it is however gratifying to see that Dundeel's first winner Cutadeel is out of a Dylan Thomas mare!



-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 9:30am
Second Chance look at Star Kingdom again please.  From a great female line but his first four dams couldn't produce any stakes results.  This one is also from a great female line - that of Vaguely Noble.  Yes dam wasn't great but the bloodlines are there to help.  He may or may not make it but it won't be because of his dam.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 9:32am
Or even go closer to home with Danehill's dam.  Only one stakes winner from at least 13 named foals.  All well breed most by Danzig.  But Danehill got the right genes and the others well we all know they didn't.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 4:37pm
Looking a bit better at Premier (so far).

Cat - 30
Sold - 12
PI - 3
W - 1
Agg - $1,400,000
Avg - $116,667
Top - $340,000
Med - $87,500


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 4:54pm
They're certainly magnificent types Big smile


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 5:47pm
Like any Stallion might get the odd good one but in general doubt they will be able to run.

-------------
Jim


Posted By: troppo75
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 6:00pm
I think any stud would be happy with a few good ones.. comparing that to .. multiple lemons and no good ones LOL

you can at least market the good...

its the bad, that you cant say much about and god knows there's lots of sires with just plain average stock not getting metro winners, yet highly priced

I like the look of Toronado myself & if I had the money (or mare) I would give him a go



-------------
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!


Posted By: Paul Hogan
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 9:11pm
You've gone Troppo !!!

-------------
Jim


Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2018 at 8:48am
Some lovely yearlings at Premier . He leaves far better types than his dad High Chap.


-------------
You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.


Posted By: Daraabah
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2018 at 7:17pm
I just LOVE the Toronado ex She's Got Gears colt Hawkes got at Premier $340k...CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HE CAN DO..


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 8:18pm
I believe this is his first runner anywhere on the planet. She goes around in the first in Ireland tonight.

Yolo Again2016  
Toronado (IRE)
Bay 2010
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Koblenza
1976
1966
2-o
1-n
Wana Doo
Bay 2000
Grand Slam
Bay or brown 1995
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Bright Candles
Chestnut 1987
El Gran Senor
Christmas Bonus
1981
1978
8-f
9-c
Wedding Gift
Bay or brown 1993
Always Fair
Bay 1985
Danzig
Carduel
1977
1978
7-a
19-b
Such Style
Bay 1977
Sassafras
Regal Lady
1967
1970
8-c
1-d
Suite (IRE)
Bay 2011
Invincible Spirit
Bay 1997
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Rafha
Bay 1987
Kris
Chestnut 1976
Sharpen Up
Doubly Sure
1969
1971
5-i
2-o
Eljazzi
Bay 1981
Artaius
Border Bounty
1974
1965
14-c
7-a
Rakiza
Bay or brown 2004
Elnadim
Bay or brown 1994
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Elle Seule
Chestnut 1983
Exclusive Native
Fall Aspen
1965
1976
10-a
4-m
Filfilah
Chestnut 1995
Cadeaux Genereux
Chestnut 1985
Young Generation
Smarten Up
1976
1975
13-e
10-b
El Rabab
Brown 1989
Roberto
Brave Raj
1969
1984
12-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,5m Kris5f x 4f Danzig5m x 4m,4m


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 7:42pm
By Sean Cronin

5th-LLD, €18,000, Mdn, 4-29, unraced 2yo, 5 1/2fT, 1:13.63, gd.
BAYLAGAN (FR) (c, 2, Toronado {Ire}–Al Waghaa {Fr}, by Muhtathir {GB}) was sharply into stride and raced prominently from flagfall in this newcomers’ test. Joining the front rank at the top of the straight, the 51-10 chance came under pressure to gain a narrow advantage approaching the final furlong and kept on gamely under whipless rousting to deny Alissachope (Fr) (Kheleyf) by a short head in a bobbing finish, becoming the first winner for his Haras de Bouquetot-based freshman sire (by High Chaparral {Ire}). Kin to a yearling colt by Planteur (Ire), he is the first foal produced by Al Waghaa (Fr) (Muhtathir {GB}), who is a full-sister to the dual stakes-placed Maroon Machine (Ire), and a half-sister to the dual stakes-placed Place Vendome (Fr) (Dr Fong), who in turn is the dam of G1 Poule d’Essai des Poulains-winning sire Style Vendome (Fr) (Anabaa) and stakes-winning G1 Poule d’Essai des Poulains and G1 Criterium International placegetter Prestige Vendome (Fr) (Orpen). Sales history: €45,000 Ylg ’17 AROCT. Lifetime Record: 1-1-0-0, €9,000.  http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/2/3177/" rel="nofollow - .
1ST-TIME STARTER. O-Al Shaqab Racing; B-Faisal bin Khalid Al Thani (FR); T-Simone Brogi.



-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 10:15pm
Not much action thus far for this bloke in Europe   3 rnrs   1 wnr  on Continent
 
8 rnrs    1 wnr    & 16th on first seasons sire list in Eng/Ire
 
Is it yet too early to make an assessment


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:14am
Bought a little slice of one with Will Clarken, ex Al Nova (Al Samer, Carnegie).

I’ll just clear a bit of space in the trophy room.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:56am
LOL  Dream on .


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 6:17am
all the best Red Hare. we have a two year in the stable who goes nice. should win her first very quickly . 2nd on debut....

-------------
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.


Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:48am
We now have an Excelebration, a Deep Field and a Toronado, all planned by breeding consultants. Fingers crossed at least one of them gets it right 😁 and maybe all

-------------
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 5:02pm
Prince of Sussex is a real nice horse.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Bought a little slice of one with Will Clarken, ex Al Nova (Al Samer, Carnegie).

I’ll just clear a bit of space in the trophy room.
First little pot hole on the road to glory... he's a rig. Fairly certain Will is still eager to cut, but they'll probably survive his first prep - or at least until the trainer has divested his own interest. For now, he's been sent to Krystal Bishop to learn a few manners.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 9:05am
Starting to hit his straps, I hear there are a few to come yet as 3yos ,he will have a serious horse from his first crop IMHO.


Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 11:58am
I would have to agree with you Goldey. He had so many nice 3YO miler types in the Yearling sales that some of them just have to be good. How many will be good? We'll have to wait and see


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 5:07pm
Noblet trained filly Backpedal just streeted them at B/rat, albeit on the syntho, breaking the 1100m record. Eased down too Clap


-------------
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:48pm
I have her in my 2018 yearling comp 😊


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:59pm
Thumbs Up


Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:47pm
We own a couple of whiskers of a Toronado filly, starting to get excited. 🙏

-------------
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”


Posted By: gonski gonski
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 12:05am
Times are getting faster as the track settles.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 10:21am
Great find Goldey.  Hope it eventually keeps up your good record with the Everest! 


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 11:49am
Thousand Guineas would be just dandy, Gay, have put on a couple of dollars each way when she was named and found a certain owner involved who seems to have the Midas touch.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 11:51am
Nice yearling shot showing on Racenet also.  The Toronado's I've followed haven't started yet so I'm hoping they have some ability.  The Shooting to Win yesterday I've got marked.  They are also coming out and showing good form.  It's nice to see the young middle distance types getting going also.


Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 12:35am
Is he losing interest in "the great pastime" this season? Anyone know


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Prince of Sussex is a real nice horse.
Now known as Lucky Express in HK. Has had four trials, so must be getting close to a race start.

Moreira rode all four, winning two and running on strong in the other two from wide draws.

I think Matt Laurie is pretty capable as a trainer. At least, from a punting perspective. No way known would I be able to say no to a $1.75m offer, but this fella looks pretty capable of pocketing that sort of money on the track - in either jurisdiction.

His older half sister Algadon Miss, by Equiano, is an above average mare with just short of $300k to her name. Plus, there is a yearling full sister to come.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2020 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Glencoe Glencoe wrote:

Is he losing interest in "the great pastime" this season? Anyone know
Covered 197 mares.

I suppose it might get a bit vanilla once you clear 175. LOL


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2020 at 4:09pm
He's won the longevity battle against Olympic Glory & Dawn Approach, though it's certainly tougher to make it in the Hunter...mind you, the other two went backwards in service fee from the outset and Toronado has just had his biggest year off an increase.

Does anyone have an opinion (better yet, analysis) of the mares that he's serviced? How do they compare to his since-departed contemporaries?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2020 at 4:29pm
He received a far better book than Dawn Approach which was always a hard sell in Oz.  Mind you DA had five stakes winners from two crops in 2019 the moment they rightly kept him home, and reckon he'll get a few more from his remaining crops if they don't push his stock too early.  




Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 1:07pm
Cheers SC. Do you have the numbers (group winners, group producers, etc) at hand, or just a gut feel?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 2:49pm
Don't have a list RH, though believe his books can be downloaded from somewhere (the Stud Book?).

Was just going by what Adam said to me and others about his first book, which hopefully was more than marketing.



Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 3:41pm
Fair enough. Thanks mate.

They're in the Stud Book, but unless you know them by name it's a good 3-4 hours of clicking through links... i.e. where a hobby becomes a chore.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 4:07pm
https://stallions.com.au/listing/toronado/" rel="nofollow - https://stallions.com.au/listing/toronado/

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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 4:38pm
Good info Gay, but more about him and the crops. I'm interested in the mares.

I'll put something together. 

Unraced
Metro winner
Blacktype winner
Group winner
Group 1 winner

First season mare
Progeny winning ratio when served (i.e. two winners from four of racing age)
Blacktype producer
Group producer
Group 1 producer

??? Something to fill the gap where the mare has nothing but her family to bring to the table - i.e. The Broken Shore, Ten Carat Rock or Lago Ovation.

Could yet do a Chautauqua here...


Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:25pm
For all stallions after 3 seasons of runners the stats that tell the story quite bluntly are;
1) runners to foals ratio
2)winners: runners
3) A.E.I.Index & APEX ratings
4) S.Wnrs to rnrs ratio
 
Hence Stallions such as Fighting Sun, Fiorente, Sizzling, Eurozone & Akeed Mofeed all nned a very good 6 months ahead or no amount of advertising will have them in the upper echelon of their respective year


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:51am
Got the winner of the Tasmanian Oaks the other day, for Bill Ryan.   Have a look at her race record.


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animals before people.


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:22pm
Hello,
I did a Hypomating between Toronado/Galileo, which seems at first sight a bit uncommon.
 
On the other Hand, they sharing within 6 Generations Sadlers Wells/Mr. Prospector/Buckpasser. IOnte4rstingly Toronado traces in his damline to "Belle Sauvage" several generations back. Allegretta's Sire is Lombard his granddam "Belle Sauvage".
 
Toronada-Noble Lassie- Belle Sauvage. It's the Family of "Vaguely Noble". Sire of Dahlia, Empery, Exceller, Gay Mecene (US), Lemhi Gold, Jet Ski Lady, Terreno (sent to NZ) just to ame a few.
 
Hope I could made some indications.
 
Best regards, Ticino


Posted By: Grey Affair
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 11:02pm
Belle Sauvage was also the dam of Pandour, who stood in Queensland with decent success back in the 60s & 70s. He sired the likes of Our Cavalier, Dual Control, Bon Teint & Panvale.




Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 12:22am
I thought Duel Control was very smart just for the record Grey Affair, done me a few favours .


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 10:52pm
Hello, Grey Affair/Carioca
many thanks for the info about "Pandour".
 
When I reread the Topic "Makeby Diva Mating plans" I spot I already mentioned the Connection with "Belle Sauvage". So I suggest above mentioned Broodmare to sent to Toronado, it would be linebreeding 6x7 to Noble Lassie, via a male and female strain.
best regards, Ticino
 


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Bought a little slice of one with Will Clarken, ex Al Nova (Al Samer, Carnegie).

I’ll just clear a bit of space in the trophy room.
First little pot hole on the road to glory... he's a rig. Fairly certain Will is still eager to cut, but they'll probably survive his first prep - or at least until the trainer has divested his own interest. For now, he's been sent to Krystal Bishop to learn a few manners.
Now known as Nova Force, he's had a trial over in SA & is getting ever closer to a race debut.... or he will be if the ownership group knock back the offer to sell him to Honkers.

It's not 'life changing' money, but considering he is still very much an unknown quantity, it's a generous offer - about 2.5x what's been spent on him so far. Without emotion, it's a good deal.

I'm leaning towards not selling. Not because I'm emotionally invested (maybe a little, but not so much as to cloud my judgement), but because a single 1000m trial in his first full prep is not much to go on at all. On pedigree, he won't even get warm until he gets to 1600m... mind you, he was a bit gassed at the end of this trial and, visually at least, he wasn't the best horse in the race.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 10:38pm
Sold. Bit flat, but can’t deny it’s a good result.

Will deadset swan dive off the Westgate if he makes something of himself up there.


Posted By: Ted
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 3:18pm
Toronado racking up winners all over the place with his first crop the last few weeks, nice double at Sandown today.

I’ve got a small share in an unnamed 2yo filly out of Current Affair, looking forward to this time next year!


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 4:55pm
Masked Crusader is being wasted in the winter.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 5:34pm
But gaining much needed experience, confidence & ratings points.


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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 May 2020 at 6:13pm
Agree, no need to sh*t the bed with a gelding, but they're only 3yo once.



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