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Fiorente At Stud

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=49303
Printed Date: 22 Mar 2019 at 10:44am
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Topic: Fiorente At Stud
Posted By: Majestic
Subject: Fiorente At Stud
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 9:23am
OK, broken down, so what are your opinions re his future as a stallion at stud? Lucas Cranoch, Americain, Shocking and now Fiorente. Will we give them all a decent opportunity or will it be try once and then let's see so that they serve very few mares after their initial seasons until they fly or crash?



Replies:
Posted By: Geraldo
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:10am
Jeune did okay, so maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but I find it easier to think these stallions have a better future as sires of steeplechasers.




Posted By: breadnbutter
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:24am
from a scientific point of view why is it more difficult to pass on elite 'stamina' genes V 'speed' genes... OR is a good staying horse more about management and conditioning V genetic make up??
 
Is it a fair statement to say a slipper winner x another slipper winner a better chance to produce a slipper winner V melb cup winner x melb winner produce a melb cup winner?
 


Posted By: early4lunch
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:37am
Any Melb. Cup winning stallion should be sent straight to N.Z. where foals are given the time that history shows they need and the pool of mares suits the breeding of more stayers.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 4:44pm
How much will he stand for? $13K


Posted By: Progold
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by breadnbutter breadnbutter wrote:

from a scientific point of view why is it more difficult to pass on elite 'stamina' genes V 'speed' genes... OR is a good staying horse more about management and conditioning V genetic make up??
 
Is it a fair statement to say a slipper winner x another slipper winner a better chance to produce a slipper winner V melb cup winner x melb winner produce a melb cup winner?
 
The thoroughbred is a balance of characteristics from speed to stamina.  Breeding too much to any one trait is doomed to failure.  However, given the nature of Australian racing, it is not possible to breed exclusively to stamina.  If you bred a horse that performed only at 3200m, there is no chance that they could even qualify to run in a Melbourne Cup.  Simply put, to fit within the Australian racing model, any successful "stayer" has to be competitive over a range of distances in order to gain prizemoney to qualify for the bigger races.  This model is different to overseas racing, and also the reason why we are now seeing some imported horses, who are qualified by nature of their overseas results, commencing first up over 2000m.


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 10:33pm
I can't see why he wont be a very good chance of producing some quality 1600m to 2400m horses

Just because he won a cup means nothing, he did have a very good turn of foot.


Posted By: Secretariat
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 2:19pm
Word on the street is Eliza Park


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 1:48pm
Embedded image permalink

-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 8:39pm
I would have sent my broodmare to him if he was better priced


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2014 at 1:26pm
http://www.thoroughbredracing.com//articles/its-end-monsun-era-mighty-stallions-influence-lives" rel="nofollow - https://www.thoroughbredracing.com//articles/its-end-monsun-era-mighty-stallions-influence-lives

-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: troppo75
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2014 at 9:11pm
page not found

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Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2014 at 9:18pm
A bit like Fiorente as a SH sire: a step into the largely unknown.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2014 at 5:12pm
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/its-end-monsun-era-%E2%80%93-mighty-stallions-influence-lives" rel="nofollow - https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/its-end-monsun-era-%E2%80%93-mighty-stallions-influence-lives


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2015 at 2:50am
When you know just enough to be dangerous, stats can make you look stupid.... but, the TrueNicks reports that I was looking at for Maxios' first crop listed higher than average SW/Runners figures for Shirley Heights & his descendants - up around 18% for the Darshaan branch. The benchmark (Monsun & anything) in these reports was 8%.

If these Monsun stats are any sort of guide, there might not be enough of that line out here for Fiorente to give it a real rip in the early days... despite the suitability of his bottom half?


Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2015 at 8:33am
dont know how good your ref material is Red Hare but its well worth looking at the Shirley Heights x Sadlers Wells cross. huge numbers when it comes to stake winners.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2015 at 5:24pm
What I had meant to say was that the Monsun/Darshaan cross runs at 18%, which is above average compared to both the Monsun/Shirley Heights (Elegant Air, etc) cross and the 8% (Monsun/anything) benchmark.... Again, just based on the report I was looking at. I've no preference to the source, it's just where the links took me.

The Sadler's Wells/Fairy King/Nureyev triumvirate were all around the 8% benchmark, which was above their figures as broodmare sires. There's plenty of that out here.

Daughters of High Chaparral seem well placed?

Either way, I think Fiorente will leave a lasting legacy. Perhaps not as a 2yo influence, but there will be classic winners & Cup winners I'm sure.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 12:14pm

Fiorente filly from Libertas

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
First foal. Filly form Statue of Liberty Mare.
 


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 12:44pm
Magic Millions - 3
Inglis Easter - 1
Inglis Classic - 0

120-odd live foals... Must be all lined up for Inglis Premier, or VOBIS Gold?


Posted By: Beliskner
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 1:59pm
I'd imagine there would be a few in the stayers category in Inglis Premier, the blue riband?


Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 4:09pm
3 at Karaka Premier

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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 3:06pm
What price the filly at Inglis December?

http://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2016+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/36" rel="nofollow - http://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2016+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/36

Just seven yearlings across the three biggest buying benches in SH & one in a tried horse sale... what gives?

Is the market waiting for a son of Monsun to light up the breeding barn?


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 3:18pm
I'm guessing most are breed to racers & that filly'll probably pass in with such a poor dam side Smile


-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: willow
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 6:17pm
who is this boneo horse ranch?


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 6:34pm
Dunno Willow, but seem to remember they either bought or sold twins at one of this year's Inglis yearling or weanling sales.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 10:06am
Originally posted by willow willow wrote:

who is this boneo horse ranch?
Tony Ottobre, according to Google. Owns a few with Weir (Jennio, Maddie Moo Moo, etc).


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 7:43am
29 catalogued for Premier.
4 in the blue riband session
14 in session 2

Hard to sell a staying pedigree in this town...


Posted By: Campaspe
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 8:13am
Boneo Horse Ranch is Fran Houlahan and Brian Johnston.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 10:44am
Originally posted by Campaspe Campaspe wrote:

Boneo Horse Ranch is Fran Houlahan and Brian Johnston.
Oh... Thanks for nothing Google. Serves me right for following the SMH.  http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/china-horse-club-continues-spending-spree-20160811-gqqdb9.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/china-horse-club-continues-spending-spree-20160811-gqqdb9.html  

Hope they have a big fill up at the sale.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 10:50am
Three catalogued in Tassie, one in Perth.

All up, he could be looking at a sales average of less than $40k, quite possibly less than $20k if the balance go through the VOBIS Gold sale.

Not a lot of meat on the bone after $17,600 service fee.


Posted By: Bushy
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2016 at 12:37pm
the fact remains the sales companies refuse to put them in the sale


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2016 at 8:30pm
Hello,
some days ago I received the "Preview"  yearlings sales catalogue from Inglis.
 
When I browsed the pages, I saw atleast one lot of Fiorente is listed by the Yarraman Stud.
 
regards, Ticino


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2016 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

What price the filly at Inglis December?

http://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2016+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/36" rel="nofollow - http://inglis.com.au/sales/info/2016+December+Thoroughbred+Sale/catalogue/36

Just seven yearlings across the three biggest buying benches in SH & one in a tried horse sale... what gives?

Is the market waiting for a son of Monsun to light up the breeding barn?
$10,000 


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2016 at 1:41pm
Fwiw, I think she's a lovely looking filly with a better head than most pics I've seen of his progeny to date. Probably a lot of Snaadee about her (GS dams' side).

Click to view gallery

-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Vivarchi
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 2:45pm
Great to see the mighty Fiorente get his 1st 2yo winner today for Weir at Ballarat. Lovely big colt who ran good time and Weiry seemed pretty high on his future.

I think Fiorente has only had the 2 runners so far and this one and Templar for Michelle Payne both look good.

Love my young middle distance/staying type sires and have a share in a Fiorente. He had a turn of foot as well as stamina and i think he has a nice chance. 


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 3:23pm
This one has his second start in a little while at Sandown over 1400m.

HAWKSHOT (AUS)Brown colt 2015 
Fiorente
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Rosa Perlato
Bay 2006
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Chestnut 1977
Star Appeal
New Way
1970
1970
5-d
6-e
Rolls
Chestnut 1984
Mr Prospector
Grand Luxe
1970
1974
13-c
4-g
Fiammarosa
Bay 1999
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Shindig
Brown 1992
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Saving
Brown 1981
Pevero
Chubb
1975
1966
6-e
1-b
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x 4m Northern Dancerx 4m,5m Mr Prospectorx 5f,5m 


-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: StormSiren
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 3:34pm
Hmmm.. that's my mare's family...

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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 3:41pm
Lane will get the blame for that defeat by punters but it was all the trainers fault.




-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 5:30pm
What a superb looking youngster Thumbs Up
Lot 103 

https://content.inglis.com.au/images/uploaded/vendors/images/xlarge/1524109432.1aa59ac349.jpg" rel="nofollow - Colt Fiorente (IRE) J'Abeel (NZ) Harvey Park, Werribee A Yates VIC $55,000



-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 5:36pm
Unnamed  
Fiorente (IRE)
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
J'Abeel (NZ)
Bay 2000
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Joyfulness
Bay or brown 1986
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Chestnut 1965
Star Kingdom
Magic Symbol
1946
1956
1-g
2-o
Coogee
Bay 1959
Relic
Last Judgement
1945
1948
8-f
7-a
Denise's Joy
Bay 1972
Seventh Hussar
Brown 1966
Queen's Hussar
Ann Boleyn
1960
1960
19-c
14-c
Fun for All
Chestnut 1959
Pipe of Peace
Holiday Scene
1954
1946
22-d
16-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x


-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 6:11pm
Hawkshot races in stakes company tomorrow at Flemington


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Hawkshot races in stakes company tomorrow at Flemington


Like him a lot, bold moving type neck arched, run at sandown won me over , hope he goes on with it.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 6:21pm
By gee I hope Fiorente makes it as a sire.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 6:23pm
I hope he does too.

He served some interestingly bred mares who look all stamina. Be interesting to see how it goes.




-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 11:04am
He's a very interesting cross of Encosta and Zabeel blood.  With so many of our mares carrying that bloodline should at least have a chance.  Like Bletchingly and Danzig nothing shows up on the page except that they are from the same female line.  Well he is a 5h line with a second branch of 5h and so are Sadler's Wells, Fairy King and Nureyev so plenty of chances for that cross to work.  He also has two sons of Danzig way back in his pedigree to show that blood seems to work also.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 11:39pm
STARS OF CARRUM (AUS)Bay colt 2015 
Fiorente
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Signoret
Bay 2007
Anabaa
Bay 1992
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Balbonella
Brown 1984
Gay Mecene
Bay or brown 1975
Vaguely Noble
Gay Missile
1965
1967
1-d
3-l
Bamieres
Brown 1978
Riverman
Bergamasque
1969
1969
10-a
1-n
Jameela
Chestnut 1999
Jeune
Chestnut 1989
Kalaglow
Grey 1978
Kalamoun
Rossitor
1970
1970
9-c
2-i
Youthful
Bay or brown 1980
Green Dancer
First Bloom
1972
1969
16-c
19-c
Nadirmarco
Bay 1990
At Talaq
Bay 1981
Roberto
My Nord
1969
1973
12-c
1-c
Moon Madness
Brown 1981
Without Fear
Moonlight
1967
1973
4-c
8>
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x 3m


-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:18am
Big day for the sire with Stars of Carrum in the Derby, 

Mangione will race on Tuesday and Alesandro on Thursday. 

Written By has a half brother by Fiorente. He's called Wise Dragon. In great hands, possibly one to keep an eye on in few years time.  


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 10:56am
Written By is from a family of middle distance stayers so hopefully Fiorente can bring that blood to the fore again.


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 2:26pm
Early days but is there a sex balanced line-breeding trend emerging with his winners to date?
Dams carrying daughters of Bahram figure in 6 of his 9 winners i.e.
Stars of Carrum
Alessandro
Mangione
Moor Gait
Lord Gladstone
Continuation
In 5 of the 6 the daughter of Bahram comes through Summertime, the other (Alessandro) comes through Galileo.
Star of Carrum's pedigree is perhaps additionally reinforced by including a sex balanced line of Bahram's son Persian Gulf.
Also of interest the sire of Summertime, Precipitation is a half brother to Persian Gulf.
Two of the remaining 3 (Hawkshot and Fariha) are out of mares by Encosta De Lago.


-------------
HH88


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 3:14pm
The bottom one on the list Continuation is imo very very promising .


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by HH88 HH88 wrote:

Early days but is there a sex balanced line-breeding trend emerging with his winners to date?
Dams carrying daughters of Bahram figure in 6 of his 9 winners i.e.
Stars of Carrum
Alessandro
Mangione
Moor Gait
Lord Gladstone
Continuation
In 5 of the 6 the daughter of Bahram comes through Summertime, the other (Alessandro) comes through Galileo.
Star of Carrum's pedigree is perhaps additionally reinforced by including a sex balanced line of Bahram's son Persian Gulf.
Also of interest the sire of Summertime, Precipitation is a half brother to Persian Gulf.
Two of the remaining 3 (Hawkshot and Fariha) are out of mares by Encosta De Lago.
Interesting to see Bahram's name pop up again - in particular the influence of Galileo's female line. 

Swynford went through a very tidy analysis in the Frankel thread:
http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/frankel_topic39772.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/frankel_topic39772.html

Not sure why you would come in here branded 'HH88' (there are far more sensible ways to be a Nationalist), but the Bahram thread is an interesting one to tug at. The fact that Galileo did not go well down here is one of the primary reasons that our staying stocks are struggling so badly.

Fiorente, Adelaide, Highland Reel & even Rock Hero all stand at reasonable price points for the breed-to-race crowd. Tavistock (through a son & a bit further back , but right on the female line) is in NZ - as is the great Gay Poss family.

We might not be as far out of the game as we think.


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 2:06pm
I see the winner of the Cup is by a son of Galileo and the mention of Gay Poss brings back happy memories fwiw.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

I see the winner of the Cup is by a son of Galileo and the mention of Gay Poss brings back happy memories fwiw.
Cross Counter carries Kenmare through his 2nd dam. Kenmare's third dam is by a son of Bahram.

Fetch my tin foil hat!


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

STARS OF CARRUM (AUS)Bay colt 2015 
Fiorente
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Signoret
Bay 2007
Anabaa
Bay 1992
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Balbonella
Brown 1984
Gay Mecene
Bay or brown 1975
Vaguely Noble
Gay Missile
1965
1967
1-d
3-l
Bamieres
Brown 1978
Riverman
Bergamasque
1969
1969
10-a
1-n
Jameela
Chestnut 1999
Jeune
Chestnut 1989
Kalaglow
Grey 1978
Kalamoun
Rossitor
1970
1970
9-c
2-i
Youthful
Bay or brown 1980
Green Dancer
First Bloom
1972
1969
16-c
19-c
Nadirmarco
Bay 1990
At Talaq
Bay 1981
Roberto
My Nord
1969
1973
12-c
1-c
Moon Madness
Brown 1981
Without Fear
Moonlight
1967
1973
4-c
8>
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x 3m
I love this horse. I was on him for the derby. This is the first time I have seen his pedigree, surely they will aim for the cup next year, look at all that stamina! Anabaa, Jeune, At Talaq and Monsun, WOWEE!!!! At stud, provides the perfect cross for Danehill lined mares to add some extra sprint.


Posted By: Einstein
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Fwiw, I think she's a lovely looking filly with a better head than most pics I've seen of his progeny to date. Probably a lot of Snaadee about her (GS dams' side).

Click to view gallery
 
Lovely sort of filly tbh. Now named:
http://racingaustralia.horse/InteractiveForm/HorseFullForm.aspx?HorseCode=MTQxNjIzODU4MDc%3d&src=horsesearch" rel="nofollow - http://racingaustralia.horse/InteractiveForm/HorseFullForm.aspx?HorseCode=MTQxNjIzODU4MDc%3d&src=horsesearch


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by HH88 HH88 wrote:

Early days but is there a sex balanced line-breeding trend emerging with his winners to date?
Dams carrying daughters of Bahram figure in 6 of his 9 winners i.e.
Stars of Carrum
Alessandro
Mangione
Moor Gait
Lord Gladstone
Continuation
In 5 of the 6 the daughter of Bahram comes through Summertime, the other (Alessandro) comes through Galileo.
Star of Carrum's pedigree is perhaps additionally reinforced by including a sex balanced line of Bahram's son Persian Gulf.
Also of interest the sire of Summertime, Precipitation is a half brother to Persian Gulf.
Two of the remaining 3 (Hawkshot and Fariha) are out of mares by Encosta De Lago.


Spensierato (by Fiorente), winner at Pakenham yesterday, has a 7m x 8f of Bahram


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 5:26pm
Re the above filly, she won't get much chance to stay up there Ouch

-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 7:30pm
What do you mean Gay?


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 9:55pm
Hello,
interesting Observation regarding Bahram and the "Double Life" Family.
I had a closer look at her ped.
Moonlight in the damline is bred 4x4x5 Bahram an her dam "Lorraine Lee" 3x3 Persian Gulf/Precipitation or 4x4 Double Life. The Granddam of Stars of Carrum (by Fiorente) is Jameela by Jeune-Kalaglow-Doubleton, the FS of Persian Gulf, her Granddaughter Jameela is linebred 8x8x8 Persian Gulf/Precipation/Doubleton FB/FS/HB. Btw, Sonsa (Damline Kalaglow) is a reverse of the Nearco/Hyperion nick.
 
Fiorente traces via Tamerlane to Persian Gulf-Bahram. A Sireline it seems only was extended in Germany.
 
regards, Ticino


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:15pm
Could the Bahram cross be more because of the presence of his 3rd dam Concertina?

Concertina was the dam of Plucky Liege who in turn threw some important and relevant sires including Admiral Drake, Bois Roussel, Bull Dog and Sir Gallahad. All 4 of these stallions appear in the pedigree of Fiorente at least once along with Dastur who is a half brother of Bahram.

Just having a look at the dam of Stars of Carrum there are 5 or 6 instances of Bahram but there are 14 instances of Plucky Liege. And I wasn't even looking at it with a fine-toothed comb. I may have missed some. 





-------------


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:19pm
Also it would be easy to put it to the test although too early as you'd have to give it another 2 years when his 1st and 2nd crops have fully matured and 3rd crop are 3yo's. 

There are quite a few sires who carry Bahram such as At Talaq, Kalaglow, Anabaa and Noble Bijou. Just a matter of seeing how many of the dams carried one of these in their pedigrees and in turn seeing how many of them are winners, stakeswinners etc.




-------------


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

What do you mean Gay?


There aren't many races longer than a mile up Townsville way.


-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:47pm
https://rsn.net.au/programs/rsn-talking-horses/" rel="nofollow - https://rsn.net.au/programs/rsn-talking-horses/

Either Phil or Jamie (??) interviewed y/day said his book's now full & yes, he fee will increase next year so well done to all who got the great deals this year Clap


-------------
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:01pm
And good luck to Sun Stud.  They very much need a new headliner with Bel Esprit aging and Magnus proving upper level bread and butter, so let's hope it's this fellow.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 7:47pm
Will serve 150 mares this season.


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by HH88 HH88 wrote:

Early days but is there a sex balanced line-breeding trend emerging with his winners to date?
Dams carrying daughters of Bahram figure in 6 of his 9 winners i.e.
Stars of Carrum
Alessandro
Mangione
Moor Gait
Lord Gladstone
Continuation
In 5 of the 6 the daughter of Bahram comes through Summertime, the other (Alessandro) comes through Galileo.
Star of Carrum's pedigree is perhaps additionally reinforced by including a sex balanced line of Bahram's son Persian Gulf.
Also of interest the sire of Summertime, Precipitation is a half brother to Persian Gulf.
Two of the remaining 3 (Hawkshot and Fariha) are out of mares by Encosta De Lago.


Spensierato (by Fiorente), winner at Pakenham yesterday, has a 7m x 8f of Bahram


Little Phoenix (C Waller) - through Big Game 



Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by HH88 HH88 wrote:

Early days but is there a sex balanced line-breeding trend emerging with his winners to date?
Dams carrying daughters of Bahram figure in 6 of his 9 winners i.e.
Stars of Carrum
Alessandro
Mangione
Moor Gait
Lord Gladstone
Continuation
In 5 of the 6 the daughter of Bahram comes through Summertime, the other (Alessandro) comes through Galileo.
Star of Carrum's pedigree is perhaps additionally reinforced by including a sex balanced line of Bahram's son Persian Gulf.
Also of interest the sire of Summertime, Precipitation is a half brother to Persian Gulf.
Two of the remaining 3 (Hawkshot and Fariha) are out of mares by Encosta De Lago.


Spensierato (by Fiorente), winner at Pakenham yesterday, has a 7m x 8f of Bahram


Little Phoenix (C Waller) - through Big Game 



Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 3:55pm
What is the name of the dam?

-------------
HH88


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 6:05pm
Looks a perfect horse for the new ballot free race.

MANNZA (AUS)Chestnut colt 2015 
Fiorente
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Rue de l'Amour
Bay 2007
Street Cry
Bay or brown 1998
Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Coup de Folie
Bay 1982
Halo
Raise the Standard
1969
1978
2-d
2-d
Helen Street
Bay 1982
Troy
Bay 1976
Petingo
La Milo
1965
1963
22>
1-b
Waterway
Chestnut 1976
Riverman
Boulevard
1969
1968
10-a
1-l
Western Love
Chestnut 1995
Western Symphony
Bay 1981
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Millicent
Bay 1969
Cornish Prince
Milan Mill
1962
1962
1-s
22-d
Miracle of Love
Bay 1985
Kaoru Star
Chestnut 1965
Star Kingdom
Kaoru
1946
1955
1-g
31>
Panvorelle
Bay or brown 1974
Convamore
Pandorelle
1962
1960
2-f
3-h
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x Troy5f x 4f


-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:23am
Originally posted by HH88 HH88 wrote:

What is the name of the dam?

Fiammarosa (Danehill)


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 12:23pm
Big Game is a son of Bahram.
Fiorente's winners highlighted in the post carry daughters of Bahram in the dams.
Trust this helps.


-------------
HH88


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 12:46pm
I have a feeling Big Game may be the sire of one of my favourites Faux Tirage , but memory may be out lol, Knave and Straight Draw come to mind.


Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 2:45pm
Spot on Carioca

Big Game - A rich bay colt foaled on 24th January 1939, by Bahram out of Myrobellea, by Tetratema , the fourth foal of his dam . Myrobella raced 15 times for 11 wins , whilst Bahram was unbeaten on the Turf. Both his sire and dam headed the free handicap foe two year olds . 
He was a massively built , handsome , quality colt, with heavy shoulders and powerful quarters. 
race record 9 races (2 seasons) 8 wins 1 placing.
Notable progeny : Combat; Faux Tirage; Makapura ( broodie sire of Biscay); Bride Elect (dam of Hethersett);  Ambiguity and Queenpot. 
2 years
Hurstbourne Plate 5f
Cranbourne Stakes 5f
Salisbury Plate 5f
Champagne Stakes 5f
at 3 years
Salisbury Stakes 7f
Two Thousand Guineas 1m
Champion Stakes 1m.


Posted By: TJMitchell
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

What do you mean Gay?


There aren't many races longer than a mile up Townsville way.


Ahhh I gotcha now. Post order made me think you were talking about the filly I posted


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

Spot on Carioca

Big Game - A rich bay colt foaled on 24th January 1939, by Bahram out of Myrobellea, by Tetratema , the fourth foal of his dam . Myrobella raced 15 times for 11 wins , whilst Bahram was unbeaten on the Turf. Both his sire and dam headed the free handicap foe two year olds . 
He was a massively built , handsome , quality colt, with heavy shoulders and powerful quarters. 
race record 9 races (2 seasons) 8 wins 1 placing.
Notable progeny : Combat; Faux Tirage; Makapura ( broodie sire of Biscay); Bride Elect (dam of Hethersett);  Ambiguity and Queenpot. 
2 years
Hurstbourne Plate 5f
Cranbourne Stakes 5f
Salisbury Plate 5f
Champagne Stakes 5f
at 3 years
Salisbury Stakes 7f
Two Thousand Guineas 1m
Champion Stakes 1m.

Thanks Mr Prospector, the mention of Makapura reminds me of the story he came out to OZ with the great ( or soon to be ) Star Kingdom, I have just watched a replay of the 1962 English Derby won by Larkspur ridden by Neville Selwood ( V. O'Brien) was that the Hethersett ( the fav.) that fell in the race?


Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 5:55pm
I'm not exactly working from memory CariocaLOL. Big Game is a great speed influence IMHO and a magic influence if you can strengthen it in a pedigree and hence whenever i see it in a pedigree I look a bit closer . 
I had to scramble for 1962 Bloodstock breeders Review for your question and yes your memory is spot on again .Hethersett fell in the derby . 
Reading the story four or five horses fell and Larkspur with Sellwood on board had to violently swerve to avoid the pile up . 


Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 7:39pm
Thanks again for your response Mr P.


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:08pm
Hello,
may I point out Big Game is to find in "Aggressor", dam Sire of Acatenango, Sire of Dalicia and dam of Animal Kingdom. He stud a few seasons in AUS.
 
As already known Bahram appears via Espresso (by Acropolis, stood in Germany) sire of Anatvka, dam of the FS's Allegretta (Galileo) and Alya (Adlerflug) and Antuco/Mondrian/Beeshi. Espresso had a HB named King of Babylon (by King of the Tudors) sent to AUS.
 
Btw, in 2016 a book was published about abovementioned Sire, by Peter Corbett:
Bahram & the Aga Khan III, published by Rinaldo Publishing, Stowmarket, ISBN 987-0-9566642-1-1
A lot of Information, not only about his racing career, but with much info about his offspring (Sire and dams). I paid about 30 English Pounds for it. Probably hard to find in your part of the world.
 
regards, Ticino
 


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 2:12pm
Mannza can be added to Fiorente's list of winners who's dams carry daughters of Bahram.
In this instance there is also a daughter of Persian Gulf.

A very good-looking horse was Bahram - possibly a shade on the leg, like so many god racers - and his performances were impeccable. He was far and away the best of his age at two and three years old, winning all nine races value 43,086 pounds. His success included the 2000 Guineas, the Derby and the St. Leger, and he never new defeat. He left the racecourse an absolutely sound horse and started at stud as a 4-year-old at a fee of 500 guineas a mare. As a personal opinion I would place him as near the best of my time. It was not only the easy manner in which he won his races, and it must be confessed that his generation as a whole were not particularly good, but the horse himself was such an attractive individual.
Attribution: Bloodstock Breeding by Sir Charles Leicester
Published by Odhams Press Limited London. 1957.

Faux Tirage ( by Big Game) was mentioned earlier in the thread. 
He stood at Okawa Stud in Hawke's Bay and his race record follows:
At two years won both starts - the Granville Stakes at Ascot and the Rous Memorial Stakes at Newmarket. Won 3 times at three years including the Newmarket Stakes, St. James Palace Stakes and ran third in the Eclipse Stakes, his only defeat.





-------------
HH88


Posted By: Mayor
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 12:24am
Mayor... I'm posting these pics on behalf of HH88.

A closer look at Stars of Carrum suggests the effective line-breeding is now one generation closer from Bahram, that is Persian Gulf.

A sex balanced line breeders dream with a son and daughter of Persian Gulf plus Doubleton, his full sister.
Should potentially work for both colts and fillies.

Very nice trifecta. 




-------------
Mayor


Posted By: Mayor
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 12:26am
Mayor.. continued, on behalf of HH88

Given the 3 stallions involved in this line-breeding scenario ie Precipitation, Persian Gulf and Bahram the odds of finding a picture of all three on one page would be at fairly long odds.

However:




-------------
Mayor


Posted By: Enabled
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 1:02am
Originally posted by Mayor Mayor wrote:

Mayor... I'm posting these pics on behalf of HH88.

<div style="font-family: Helvetica;">A closer look at Stars of Carrum suggests the effective line-breeding is now one generation closer from Bahram, that is Persian Gulf.<br ="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica;">A sex balanced line breeders dream with a<b =""> son and <b ="">daughter of Persian Gulf plus Doubleton, <b ="">his full sister.<div style="font-family: Helvetica;">Should potentially work for both colts and fillies.<br ="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica;">Very nice trifecta. <div style="font-family: Helvetica;">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica;">


Surely you did not write up that lineage.


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 3:41pm
A considerable amount of research is required to arrive at (in this case) the position that at this early stage a disproportionally high number of his winners to date have balanced line breeding to Bahram/Persian Gulf.
All of his winners named in the thread have been subject to the same degree of analysis as Stars of Carrum so the answer to your question is yes.


-------------
HH88


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 8:54pm
Hello,
I dont't want tp praise myself, I pointed to the "triple" of linebreeding  in the ped of "Stars of Carrum" about a fortnight ago.
 
Interestingly "Kalaglow" is the Sire of "Sternkönig" in Germany, from the same damline as Star Appeal. I i remember corretly, he was sent to Germany, but died pretty soon afterwards,
 
Standaan (Zeddaan), I spot in some peds, belongs to the same damline, more descents are Meld and Charlottown, Declan's Moon, Ramonti, Montmartre
 
regards. Ticino


Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 3:39pm
I have a mare with 4 strains of Bahram, she’s in foal now but I may give her a whirl with Fiorente next year if this trend continues.

-------------
to the victor


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 1:58pm
The trend continues with Piemonte winning yesterday.
Balanced line breeding to a male and female strain of Persian Gulf.


-------------
HH88


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 3:34pm
Way too early to tell regarding this 'trend'.

The only horse that has put his hand up as above average is Stars of Carrum. There are quite a few horses with Bahram or Persian Gulf that are not winners or even placegetters. 

It is all about opportunity and how many have the cross and then how many win or are stakeswinners. I would say that we'd have to wait till the end of the current crop of 3yo's finish their 4yo season before we can have a large enough sample of winners or stakeswinners to make an assumption.


-------------


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 3:50pm
Alessandro is one you have forgotten Kavg.


Another one to keep an eye out for is the Waterhorse trained Fiorentino. 

FIORENTINO (AUS)Bay or brown colt 2015 
Fiorente
Brown 2008
Monsun
Bay or brown 1990
Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976
Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961
Tamerlane
Donna Diana
1952
1956
1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965
Tiepoletto
Kronung
1956
1957
2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985
Surumu
Chestnut 1974
Literat
Surama
1965
1970
7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979
Authi
Monacensia
1970
1969
14-b
8-a
Desert Bloom
Bay 2000
Pilsudski
Bay 1992
Polish Precedent
Bay 1986
Danzig
Past Example
1977
1976
7-a
8-h
Cocotte
Bay 1983
Troy
Gay Milly
1976
1977
1-b
11>
Desert Beauty
Bay 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Foreign Courier
1977
1979
7-a
A4
Hellenic
Bay 1987
Darshaan
Grecian Sea
1981
1978
13-c
5-h
Fulminate
Bay or brown 2009
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Chestnut 1977
Star Appeal
New Way
1970
1970
5-d
6-e
Rolls
Chestnut 1984
Mr Prospector
Grand Luxe
1970
1974
13-c
4-g
Dazzle Light
Bay 1997
Danzero
Bay 1991
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Confidentially
Bay or brown 1978
Kaoru Star
Idesa
1965
1972
31>
13-b
Travel Light
Grey 1982
Bellissimo
Grey 1971
Petingo
Belle de Retz
1965
1962
22>
16-b
Otalight
Chestnut 1971
All A'Light
Otaha
1963
1956
1-s
5-d
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig5m,5m x 5m


-------------
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 3:55pm
Lots of inbreeding to Northern Dancer due to the way of bloodlines today also.  Many never win.  But maybe the tail female line is also important don't you think.  

Piemonte is one of a couple of Fiorente's I marked to follow.  From the female line of Street Cry and from a Canny Lad mare it seemed a nice mix.  A Darshaan f x m and Konigsstuhl over a line of Sadler's Wells in the female.  Danzig/Bletchingly cross.  Plenty of catches so the hope one comes through.  Hopefully he can go on with the job.


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 4:50pm
I haven't forgotten Alessandro djebel but he has yet to prove himself and that is why I would wait another season and a half before seeing a trend.

There are many others who can't run or haven't had a run yet that have the 'trend' and we can not overlook that fact.

And as Furious mentioned piemonte is from tail female of street cry. I also notice Mannza has Street cry as broodmare sire. Could street cry be a trend? Street cry has good stats with sadlers wells family and fiorente tail female is same as sadlers.
Or could it be troy that is the key who appears in street cry and fiorente?
Or could it be riverman that is the key? He appears in street cry but also anabaa the damsire of stars of carrum.

Riverman's sire is never bend who appears twice in pedigree of desert bloom the dam of fiorente.

Riverman/never bend/lalun look more of a key to my eye.

-------------


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 4:52pm
And just for you Djebel, Alesandro has Riverman in his dam.

-------------


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 4:55pm
Alessandro that is. Also has another dose of Never Bend-ie. two instances of Never Bend in his dam.

My point being that there would be a lot less horses with Riverman in the dam side or even Never Bend than having Bahram or Persian Gulf in the dam side and the percentage of winners and stakeswinners would be much higher with Riverman/Never bend when crossed with Fiorente. 


-------------


Posted By: HH88
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 1:22pm
Crikey you blokes are tough.
On the site for no time at all and have already been accused of:
(1) Being a Nationalist.
(2) Being a plagiarist.
(3) And now given to exaggeration.
Trend Oxford English Dictionary
(Noun)
A general direction in which something is developing.

So if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a trend - and no inverted commas required.Smile


-------------
HH88


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 2:40pm
Take it easy H.

My point is that there are a lot of dams that have got bahram in their pedigree. Statistical analysis is needed to see if it is a trend or an aberration.

More to the point as I have stated a couple of times, more time is needed to sort oout whether these 3yo's and the younger ones are any good. At this stage only Stars of carrum has put his hand up but he still has to come up as an autumn 3yo. Alessandro is showing some promise and all the others still have to step up.

But there maybe a better trend with Riverman or Never bend that are present in a lot fewer broodmares. Again what I am suggesting is a trend that I have noticed but it needs to also stand up to statistical analysis.

This is a forum for ideas and discussions to hopefully help people make a better or more informed decision.

-------------


Posted By: GAJ
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 2:42pm
I am the new owner of a Fiorente colt and his dam Calaxna (Linamix) an Irish bred mare full sister to the Irish Stallion and stakes winner Carlotamix.
They will arrive sometime this month, looking like they have come from a drought area in Victoria, they will certainly pick up here in the Northern Rivers of NSW.
 
I am interested in the forumites thoughts of this mating?
CARLAXNA (IRE)
 Grey mare Foaled 2004 

Sire:
Linamix
1987
MendezBellyphaLyphard
Belga
17-b
16-b
Miss CarinaCaro
Miss Pia
3-o
23-b
LunadixBretonRelko
La Melba
16-g
4-i
LutineAlcide
Mona
2-f
6-e
Dam:
Carlitta
1996
OlympioNaskraNasram
Iskra
11-d
3-e
Carols ChristmasWhitesburg
Light Verse
12-e
8-d
CreamerySecretariatBold Ruler
Somethingroyal
8-d
2-s
Cream 'n CrimsonVaguely Noble
Crimson Lass
1-d
5-b


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:05pm
Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?

None off the top of my head.

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The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:05pm
Clare Cunningham

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The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:07pm
I am not a pedigree buff, like some of the real experts here.    I am just saying OOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Secretariat on the dam side , love it already Thumbs Up


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animals before people.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?

None off the top of my head.

Gaj herself has a history of producing staying winners from modest stock, so this youngster should get every chance.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:58pm
Carlaxna's dam was a Listed winner over 9 furlongs and has produced a Gp 1 winner over 1600m.

Reckon you might be on a winner with this colt Gaj.




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