Inbreeding to Danehill
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Topic: Inbreeding to Danehill
Posted By: Blacktypepedigree
Subject: Inbreeding to Danehill
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 6:35pm
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http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Win_Smoothly_AUS-470755" rel="nofollow - WIN SMOOTHLY , is the 18th BTW inbred to Danehill. He won Lisboa Prelude (L) in Macau last week and is 1st BT winner by Court Command (Commands) Three horse inbred to Danehill won G1 race: http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Guelph_AUS-5545" rel="nofollow - GUELPH , http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Astaire_IRE-104453" rel="nofollow - ASTAIRE and http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Southern_Lord_AUS-433519" rel="nofollow - SOUTHERN LORD One won G2 race: http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Steel_Rose_NZ-469595" rel="nofollow - STEEL ROSE Six won G3 race: http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Ladies_Are_Forever_GB-266525" rel="nofollow - LADIES ARE FOREVER http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Leitir_Mor_IRE-106488" rel="nofollow - LEITIR MOR http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Psychologist_AUS-307812" rel="nofollow - PSYCHOLOGIST http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Mango_Diva_GB-151986" rel="nofollow - MANGO DIVA http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Florentina_AUS-179072" rel="nofollow - FLORENTINA http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Kiss_A_Rose_AUS-83163" rel="nofollow - KISS A ROSE All BTP horses inbred to Danehill you can find through Blacktypepedigree service http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/inbreeding/Danehill_USA-145496/5/2/1/0/0/" rel="nofollow - Inbreeding (need to be registered) and If you will use "Monitor changes on query results" - you will find all new horses or results of older horses inbred to Danehill in your mailbox.
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Replies:
Posted By: Observer
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 5:54am
| Inevitable that there will be more and more cases of horses with Danehill duplications with the passing of eah year from here on in. His presense is ubiquitous in the Australian breeding herd. Steel Rose is a dubious case of being "inbred" to Danehill, her sire Guillotine is devoid of Danehill, her dam Aga Panther is indeed inbred to Danehill 2x3. |
Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 9:21pm
| 18 stakes winners from how many runners? |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 11:06pm
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I would of thought there would be on a lot more than 18 total (within 3 gen) . How many ND x ND 3rd gen get !! Would think danehill will better that in time. In aus anyway |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 13 May 2015 at 7:52pm
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Triple Danehill?
Tara Madgwick - Wednesday, 13 May 2015 Prepared at Canberra by Nick Olive, Bring a Secret was narrowly beaten in a $20,000 juvenile event at Wagga last month when resuming from a spell and quickly made amends here. Sent out favourite with Glyn Schofield in the saddle, Bring a Secret found the line strongly to win by more than a length over 1250 metres as favourite. "We’ve had an opinion of him since day one,” revealed Nick Olive. "We’ll get him home and see how he progresses, although he is entered for the big race in Brisbane (Group I JJ Atkins Classic). "He’s a nice horse with a big future.”  Bring a Secret as a yearling Bring a Secret was consigned to the Inglis Australian Easter Yearling Sale by Newgate Farm on
behalf of his Canberra based breeders Roz and Callum Beaton of Cuillin Hills Thoroughbreds, but passed
in shy of his $60,000 reserve.He is the third winner from three foals to race from Secrets Sleeping (NZ), who was also trained by Nick Olive and won three races including a victory at Warwick Farm. A daughter of Danehill’s Group I winning son Viking Ruler, Secrets Sleeping comes from the family of Group I stars Cosmic Endeavour, Easy Rocking and Fairy King Prawn and has a close double cross of Danehill as her dam Stella’s Pantry is by Danewin. Combining Secrets Sleeping with Sebring, who also has a line of Danehill being from a daughter of Flying Spur, gives Bring a Secret the triple treat - 4 x 3 x 4 ! One might think that three lines of a bay dominant sire like Danehill would result in a bay, but not so, as Bring a Secret has two chestnut parents and is a flashy chestnut with some prominent white markings! Secrets Sleeping has a yearling colt to follow by Denman and another weanling filly by Sebring, which is also chestnut. ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: mozzie
Date Posted: 22 May 2015 at 1:10pm
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I've decided to inbreed to Danehill 3 x 3 this season with my mare Lone Ballad. She's booked into Foxwedge. Given that she is also a 3/4 sister to Rock Sturdy (Lone Ballad is by Holy Roman Emperor), I thought I'd give it a go. ------------- We learn everyday but still die stupid |
Posted By: runnerdance
Date Posted: 22 May 2015 at 1:24pm
| I'm thinking the same. Al maher mare to helmet this season |
Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 9:46am
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Inbred to Danehill 2,881 Foals of Racing Age 1,245 Starters 546 Winners 28 Stakes winners That is 1% SW to Starters. No magic beans here! ------------- Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory... |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 12:48pm
| Winners to runners % would not be considered very flash either . |
Posted By: runnerdance
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:13pm
| Thanks Brogers - greats stats and crystal clear info. Good job |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:23pm
Isn't that 1% to foals of racing age rather than starters ? ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
brogers wrote:Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:31pm
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Either way its a small percentage but is it small compared to the rest of the population ? Also how much of that inbreeding is through poor quality stock ? ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 25 May 2015 at 6:26pm
That's the question. Danehill is a victim of his own success. Any son of his that remained intact was sent to stand there for a while - The number of Danehill sons at stud are staggering- and most of them very ordinary. I fear the cross will always be low due to sheer numbers of poor quality. |
Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 26 May 2015 at 12:32am
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Hello, the thirdplaced Amona (by Aussie Rules), Diana Trial, 2000 meters Group 2, at Berlin/Hoppegarten, is bred 2x3 Danehill. It's the first time I've seen a Thouroughbred inbred to Danehill at a German racetrack. regards, Ticino |
Posted By: Oritah
Date Posted: 28 May 2015 at 11:45pm
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I have a confession..... I prefer pedigrees with out Danehill and to a lesser extent ND influence in them.... Very hard to find, as they have been done to death.... ------------- Lawyer |
Posted By: Off and racing
Date Posted: 29 May 2015 at 8:32am
| Be interested to know the stats in foals with 4 lines of northern dancer and there performance on the track |
Posted By: Breeder
Date Posted: 29 May 2015 at 10:43am
| Danehill, in Australia and NZ, will turnout to be the modern day Hyperion or Nearco in pedigrees, over the next 10-15 years |
Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 29 May 2015 at 10:55am
| Maybe right. Over time it will be virtually impossible to avoid duplications. Inbreeding however can be avoided as Danehill will be appearing further back in the pedigree. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 29 May 2015 at 11:30am
Are you an Aga Khan devotee ? He was adamant the Never Bend sireline would outlast/outdo Northern Dancer. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Oritah
Date Posted: 29 May 2015 at 11:10pm
No Djebel - to be honest I dont know much abut him  but I like their stallions!!! That Grey Dalakhani being my favorite  I just think there are to many ordinary and/or unproven Danehill sons running around which can result in undesirable traits coming thru. While ND is just in so many pedigrees - its hard to avoid - you can very quickly end up with over 6 duplication's. Which I know many people like - but you must remember those double ups can be of both good and bad traits - genetics are a funny thing.... Having said all that - I am no expert here, my 1st TB foals are in utero... ------------- Lawyer |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 8:46am
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New Stakes-Winner for Double Danehill
Tara Madgwick - Monday, 14 November 2016 The much maligned double Danehill cross featured last Saturday with a new stakes-winner, so we thought it was timely to take a look at the stats with yearling sales just around the corner. Three year-old filly Prompt Response posted her first stakes win when successful in the Listed MRC Twilight Glow Stakes to become the 43rdstakes-winner worldwide to carry the double cross. She is by the Redoute's Choice stallion Beneteau from a daughter of Exceed and Excel, so has exactly the sort of 3 x 3 Danehill male line to male line pedigree that many people now shy away from. The stats for this exact pattern of line breeding are 45.9% winners to runners with 322 winners from 702 runners including 10 stakes-winners headed by Hong Kong Derby HK Gr 1winner Luger, who is by Choisir from a daughter of Danzero. Luger also has a Group III winning full sister in Psychologist, while Prompt Response has a Group III winning full brother in Prompt Return. Prompt Response is the fourth Australian stakes-winner this season to carry the double Danehill, the other three stakes-winners being Don't Doubt Mamma (3 x 4) and Selenia (3 x 4), both by Not a Single Doubt and Ulmann (4 x 2), who is by Sebring ( whose dam is by Flying Spur) from a daughter of Danehill. The overall stats for double Danehill in any way shape or form within five generations is 46.1 % winners to runners with 1048 winners from 2272 runners including 43 stakes-winners headed by Group I winners Guelph, Astaire and Southern Lord. Love it or hate it, there is plenty of double Danehill out there and savvy breeders that can crack the case on how to make it work will be the big winners in time. ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 2:29pm
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My Keffelstein mare just had a positive to Rock Hero, so the foal will have Danehill in 4th remove on dam side and 3rd remove on sires side ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2017 at 7:15pm
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looks to be a smart horse 
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Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2017 at 9:03pm
| Still very green by the looks Swynford |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 12:59am
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There's a strong concentration of 'Barb'-line sires in the centre of Snitzson's pedigree. Perhaps this diversity is a contributing factor here - and something that might make the Snitzel/Blackfriars cross work?... and, in turn, put King's Troop on the radar for WA breeders.
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 6:47pm
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http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/Aliyana%20tilde_zpsgnbykghe.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 6:58pm
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Mares from the Grey Sovereign male line appear in other stallions when Snippets is in the same position. http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/press%20stat_zpsceqa8gnj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 7:02pm
He's certainly potent in many cases when duplicated & was the 1st thing I was drawn to when spotting that chart  ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 7:05pm
http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/malaguerra_zpsc9d08rf0.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 4:18pm
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http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/chauffeur_zpsnf2xqdka.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 4:29pm
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If I was looking at sending a mare to Snitzel, part of the equation would be finding one with Grey Sovereign on the mares male line lower in the pedigree. http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/sabanci_zps56xqpalu.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:30pm
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Winner of the Group Three Widden Stakes at Flemington today 
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:05pm
| That was a hard run she had Swynford. Thought for sure she collapse. Maybe the others aren't worth much. |
Posted By: Carioca
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:12pm
Lot of strength down the bottom furious, Hermes, Sabaean, Blue Peter. just thinking out loud . 
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:26pm
| Yep but only a little thing and had to be hunted early. Usually that ends them off and she fought on particularly well so wonder about what she beat. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:30pm
| It's probably worth mentioning that Patronella has also produced two stakes-winners to Geiger Counter where there's no Danehill or Grey Sovereign. |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:25pm
| Patronella is also the dam of Aliyana Tide, a full sister to Teaspoon. Correct me if I am wrong but considering Snitzel leaves a Group winner once in every 23 runners then the mare definitely has something he likes. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:33pm
| Could account for Teaspoon running on. Aliyana Tide could go over a distance. |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:54pm
Ability to produce you'd think, now that she's produced four stakes-winners from two such diverse stallions. Interestingly Smytzer's Twist has also produced a stakes-winner by Redoute's Choice, so that makes three with Redoute's in the immediate sire line
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 6:01pm
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I agree furious . Its just a hunch I have that Snitzel (or more to the point Snippets ) might like mares with Grey Sovereign on their male line. Hinchinbrook may also.
This horse below by a different stallion but another with the pattern and one of the best from his sire Came off just a $500 service fee at the time. http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/el%20pescado_zpsxtaxtdi4.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 6:09pm
| Well nothing wrong with Grey Sovereign/Star Kingdom cross which you get in both Redoute's and Snitzel. |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 7:55pm
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 8:29pm
| Thats the Lady Chester female line Swyford. Still firing strong. |
Posted By: ianb
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 9:57pm
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I bred a winner today at the Gold Coast in Son of Justice Court Command (Commands, Danehill). Out of Come to Thee x Lion Hunter (Danehill) |
Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 10:00pm
| Well done Ianb |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 9:11am
| Good stuff Ian , do you still breed your own ? |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 11:22am
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Congrats Ian. always great when you have bred them ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 11:55am
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 6:51pm
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congrats Ian...... pedigree of Son Of Justice http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/son%20of%20justice_zpsw5zcw4wb.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 6:57pm
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Pedigree of Karaka Million winner http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/melody%20belle_zps2qkcmyzr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ianb
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 8:08pm
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Yeah I try .....it's a hard expensive game, but we turn up each and every year trying to breed more winners. We retired Come to Thee last year and gave her to a neighbour to be a grass eater, she has a Mahisara filly that is a fairly immature horse, which is a lot different from most of his stock. I borrowed a Danzero mare and have a filly out of her, I was given a NASD filly that didn't cycle last year and have decided to keep her for another year, her half by I am Invincible made $220,000 at Magics and I have another Court Command mare Darth Traya that will breed this season. We brought a well bred Haradasun filly that also decided to be barren, so will front up again and finance the vets world travels (hahaha) Plus old DiamondsnPearls, she has the best yearling I have ever bred selling at QTIS sale and a colt foal at foot that is spectacular. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 6:03am
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Six x Six Enhanced Pedigree Grid for PATEENA ARENA (AUS) 2014 Bay filly
Danehill (USA) 1986 : 3f x 3m ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 6:04am
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Stakes winner - Danehill 3f x 3m ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:26am
| Article on Danehill inbreeding on breednet today if someone can share,Danehill dups has 2% stakes winners to runners based on their info today . |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:43am
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What was Star Kingdoms final tally for inbreeding to himself ? As with Star Kingdom there is a lot of dross that distorts these types of figures. Stakes Double for Double Danehill Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 23 February 2017 Love it or hate it, we are seeing more and more of horses carrying a double cross of Danehill and two of them have won stakes races in the past week.  Ducimus - Grant Courtney Star Tasmanian juvenile Pateena Arena (2f Needs Further x Gehenna, by Ladoni) won her second stakes race when taking the Listed Gold Sovereign Stakes at Launbceston on Wednesday and is also 3 x 3 to Danehill. ( http://www.breednet.com.au/news/131461/Needs-Further-Filly-Wins-Gold-Sovereign" rel="nofollow - Read about her win here ) The current statistics for the double cross within five generations according to Arion are 46.4% winners to runners – 1165 winners from 2513 runners. 51 stakes-winners are bred this way headed by Group I winners Guelph, Southern Lord and the Northern Hemisphere bred Astaire. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:22pm
| 46% winners to runners and 2.5% stakes winners to runners is hardly a ringing endorsement |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:28pm
You would need to cut through the dross and look how often this kind of breeding is through quality stock. As I asked, I wonder what Star Kingdoms percentages were for similar inbreeding ? ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Flight
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 1:14pm
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I think you will find that the 2 x 2 duplications or closer were not a success yet the results appear to be a bit more consistent when spun out to generation three. ------------- “The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ” ― V.C. King |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 1:21pm
| As Flight says with most things wait and be patient. After three or four generations give it a go. But the figures all have bad pedigrees and good pedigrees involved. If the female line didn't respond well to Danehill blood in the first place a second cross probably wont help either. |
Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 3:35pm
Hope so Flight. I'm involved in a Reset mare ( Referendum ) that is in foal to Needs Further and we have Danehill 3 X 3 but sex balanced on the female side. The stallion is doing a great job in my opinion at these early days. ------------- It's only called gambling when you lose |
Posted By: Sworn Revenge
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 3:36pm
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Hopefully Slowdown the half to Lady Lynette by NF sells well at Adelaide on the back of Pateena Arena
------------- It's only called gambling when you lose |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 4:22pm
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I think to make a conclusion on only one duplication in a pedigree or come up with stats on it is actually useless information. I love the mating of Referendum with Needs Further. I would start with the mares male line first and as we can see it is the same as the bottom line of the stallion. In my opinion this is perfect and the most powerful line breeding pattern there is. (Top line of the mare with the bottom line of the stallion.) Further up that male line is Sir Ivor and he appears as a brood-mare sire in Encosta De Lago. Again to my mind right on the button. Danehill by himself doesn't interest me but as one can see there is so much more happening than just him 
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:29pm
------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:35pm
No you wouldn't otherwise you could pick any inbreeding and say oh it's good if you take out the crap ones. |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:18pm
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Not a stakes winner yet but similar pedigree to those posted earlier in this thread, double Danehill. Important in my opinion is the second pattern and one that I think is emerging with Snippets and that is mares lower in the pedigree from the Grey Sovereign male line. http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/magnatti_zps4f26k0oe.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:27pm
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Similar structured pedigree, the interesting observations for me are the male lines of the mares and how they fit into the stallion. 
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Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:44pm
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This is a glaring example of a second pattern. http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/shalaa_zpshy7bujrz.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:01pm
| Would the last example be a build up of Lady Susan via Rockefella and Danzig possibly ? |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:05pm
| Be interesting when it meets Bletchingly imo . |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:09pm
| There is a fair share of Bletchingly floating around the Standing stallions at Arrowfield Where Shalaa is to stand next season maybe a coincidence ? |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 8:48am
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It's never a shame when Danzig and Bletchingly cross that 7a cross is found in Arrowfields best stallion so maybe they are going for similar blood. Not a close but still from the 7 family Lunchtime and Zamazaan seem to work well also. Just some with these crosses highlight the Australian turf in the last twenty odd years - Canny Lad - Bletchingly x Lunchtime mare, Redoute's Choice - Danehill x Canny Lad mare, Elvstroem - Circles of Gold (second dam by Zamazaan) to Danehill, Choisir - Danehill Dancer x Lunchtime mare, Desert War - Desert King x Canny Lad mare, Shogun Lodge - Grand Lodge x Best Western mare, I am Invincible - Invincible Spirit x Canny Lad mare, Dodge - Canny Lad x Zamazaan mare, He's No Pie Eater - Canny Lad x Ascot Knight mare, Fashions Afield - Redoute's Choice x 2nd dam by Bletchingly Snitzel - Redoute's Choice x Snippets mare, Stratum Star - Stratum x son of Snippet), Virage de Fortune - Anabaa x 2nd dam by Bletchingly and on and on |
Posted By: Flight
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:16am
In most instances I would tend to agree with that statement however, in the case of Danehill, most of the resulting progeny were relatively well bred and given every opportunity. The way I saw it, Danehill's best performers were from non-Northern Dancer line mares. My interpretation was that no more Natalma was needed. To then cross Danehill with Danehill made no sense to me. ------------- “The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ” ― V.C. King |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:30am
| Might make no sense Flight but they are struggling with all the best female lines have Danehill somewhere in the pedigree. We need an explosion of another sireline to help them all out. |
Posted By: Isaac soloman
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:53am
| A Shamardal line stallion? |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:22am
| Who know's Isaac. Shamardal still has many lines of his blood in Australia with his damline producing Street Cry. Not sure about the Storm Cat line here. They show glimpses of greatness but not in great numbers so that is a minus. Also it is just another line of Northern Dancer and I think we need another line to step up - but which one! |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:25am
Flight I think if you look at Danehill's Group One winners approx 1/3 were out of Northern Dancer male line mares
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:29am
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While Redoute's and Fastnet have been great sires - they are not in the same class as their sire. So as he was foaled in 1986 we are almost due the next great. Hopefully sometime in the next 10 years. There was forty years between Star Kingdom and Danehill. They didn't cross in the sireline till back at Whalebone (GB) 1807. So I'm expecting something not from the Northern Dancer line to surprise us.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:42am
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It will almost certainly be a sire from the Northern Dancer tribe, Or a much lesser chance from the Native Dancer tribe. Almost a zero chance from any other tribe. #SYT ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 12:14pm
------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 12:20pm
Not quite inbreeding to Danehill but still -
------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 12:27pm
| As I'm talking about the next breed shaper probably won't be ND tribe djebel. They shape the world now. |
Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:28pm
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Hello, Summer Passage, carries Danehill and Machiavelian (Sire of his third dam), both Sires are related, Coup de Folie is 3x3 Almahmoud, who is the dam of Natalma, too. Btw, from the same damline as "Northwest Passage". The dam sire Encosta de Lago, his damsire Star Way traces via Star Appeal, surprise, surprise to Dark Ronald, via Son-in-Law. The only other male Strain of Dark Ronald extended I know so far outside Germany. Btw, Magpie was a Dark Ronald son exported to Australia. Maybe you give a try to the Bahram male stirp of Blandford in Fiorente (by Monsun). In Europe he and his sons are still very sought after as outcross of all the ND male lines. Best regards, Ticino |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 8:00am
| You never know Ticino Fiorente had 198 foals from his first crops. |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 6:29am
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When a second pattern is present like this I think the double of Danehill is a huge PLUS http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/garrard_zpsojk1gmjp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 3:06pm
GROUP 1 WINNER. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 4:05pm
No "not quite" about it, she's not inbred to Danehill  ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 4:15pm
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No, But there are about 9 strains of Natalma. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 4:39pm
Along with thousands of others  ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 4:50pm
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When that colt retires to stud and serves mares inbred for Danehill the results will be dynamite. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: .Swynford.
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 11:49am
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A very nice looking horse, they can be worth a lot of money, I know its only 'in the bush' but is this the first winner by All Too Hard http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/swynford1/media/linclon%20hills_zpsuuqkrd41.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 2:51pm
| Still got the More than Ready/Flying Spur thing going only in reverse. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 2:53pm
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Skating, What a great matriarch. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 1:50am
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Champagne Stakes winner, The Mission is another one for the 'second pattern' file... but which one is the second? He can't be the first foal bred on the Choisir/Redoute's Choice cross (surely?). So, if the reflective patterns in Great Selection and Canny Lad aren't the key, is it as simple as Danehill on top with MTR in the bottom half? Thus making the Great Selection/Canny Lad nick the 'second pattern' and the Danehill duplication an added bonus? Fair dinkum, the should've called him Nan's Veggie Soup. Everything in the pot, no idea which flavour is which. |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 2:09am
The free wiki-style info at Pedigreequery shows a grand total of three runners, The Mission included, from (at a guess) 10 years worth of opportunity. There must be more. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 10:25am
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Well Choisir and Redoute's Choice are very close in genetic make up. They have more than just the Danehill cross. He is the first winner from 8 foals and 6 starters from 6 different mares - according to equineline. It could be that there are no other close crosses other than the Danehill 3 x 3. Some of the others may have had other lines of Biscay or Lunchtime or even more Danehill blood. This is close to close Danehill/Lunchtime/Biscay (the big three) in both but Lunchtime and Biscay are off in the 6th line in the mare My Amelia. If you had say a second dam by Snippets or Canny Lad (and alot of Canny Lad mares went to Redoute's Choice) you would have a far busier pedigree and that could create troubles.
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Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 2:52pm
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Unlikely Pin Up Boy Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 20 April 2017 When Guelph won the Group I ATC Champagne Stakes in 2013, horses bred with a double cross of legendary sire Danehill had found their pin-up girl, but it's taken four more years for a pin-up boy to emerge.  The Mission By Choisir from a daughter of Redoute's Choice, The Mission is the fourth Group I winner to carry the double cross and is only the second in Australia after Guelph. Current statistics for the double Danehill courtesy of Arion show 46.7% winners to runners (1221 winners from 2614 starters) with 57 stakes-winners. Among those stakes-winners are current season two year-olds Gunnison, Single Bullet, Debellatio, Ducimus, Pateena Arena, Seannie and of course The Mission. The Mission is an interesting pin-up boy for a number of reasons starting with his pedigree.  Choisir In his favour may well be Choisir. When you run a report for the double Danehill cross, but look at only those involving Choisir the statistics improve markedly. We find 51.3 % winners to runners with eight stakes-winners making for 4% stakes-winners to runners which is double what we find when just looking at the straight double Danehill. Another factor making The Mission a somewhat unexpected star is his purchase price and yearling picture, neither would suggest star in the making!  The Mission as a yearling - a work in progress As you can see in his yearling picture, The Mission was a work in progress and it's a credit to Paul Perry that he saw the diamond in the rough. Young thoroughbreds go through growth spurts at various stages of their development and it's fair to day The Mission was not seen at his best last January. Given his pedigree (the iffy double Danehill) and his type (work in progress), it's no wonder that this Group I winner was picked up cheaply and has now won over $400,000. ------------- Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work. |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 5:02pm
| Two of those Choisir SWs mentioned above are Luger & Psychologist, out of the Danzero mare Miss Conception. |
Posted By: Swynford
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 8:18am
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Second highest rated two year old in Europe 
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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 4:02pm
| Are there any stats to say this duplication works or not ? Colts Or fillies |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:16pm
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This discussion will help, in particular this post & haven't read further:
http://www.racecafe.co.nz/forums/index.php?/topic/49785-inbreeding-to-danehill/&do=findComment&comment=433124" rel="nofollow - Posted
The report on inbreeding to Danehill (foaled in 1986) reads like this.
Danehill as a stallion SW to runners = 16.7% Danehill inbreeding -SW to named foals= 1.4% Danehill inbreeding -SW to runners = 2.2% Savabeel (leading NZ sire) SW to runners= 9.4% Street Cry (leading Aus sire) SW to runners= 8.0% My theory on nicks is that a certain type of stallion ( horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability) compliment a certain type of mare (horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability). Breed an athlete. http://racecafe.co.nz/forums/index.php?/topic/49785-inbreeding-to-danehill/" rel="nofollow - http://racecafe.co.nz/forums/index.php?/topic/49785-inbreeding-to-danehill/ ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |