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Topic: NBN
Posted By: mc41
Subject: NBN
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 1:01pm

The chairman of the national broadband network has warned of further cost blowouts in rolling out fibre-optic cables throughout the country, while an NBN Co analysis warns the Coalition’s ‘‘cheaper, sooner’’ network would strip up to $1.8 billion from its projected revenues.

New details of the draft document prepared by the NBN Co for the incoming government also reveal the slower transmission speed under the new model would compromise the provision of telehealth, distance education, internet TV and other business applications.

NBN Co executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski told a Senate hearing on Friday the Coalition’s $20.4 billion costing for the project could be proved wrong.


According to the NBN Co analysis prepared for the incoming government during the caretaker period, obtained by Fairfax Media, the fibre-to-the-node NBN promised by the Coalition before the poll would be unable to deliver the advanced digital services people expect.

Among the services likely to be compromised by the slower service are quality voice telephony and reliable-quality video transmission required for delivering e-health and education to rural and remote areas.

The government’s model does not allow for sufficient upload speeds to deliver those services and sufficient bandwidth overall to deliver highly reliable services, the document states. The Coalition model proposes a minimum of 25 megabits per second (Mbps) by 2016, and a minimum of 50 Mbps by 2019. 

The fibre-to-the-node model also compromises ‘‘multicast’’ capabilities – a key NBN Co product that allows multiple high-definition TV channels to be broadcast to large numbers of subscribers at once – because the number and quality of available programs would be restricted by the limited bandwidth.

On Friday, Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull attempted to discredit the document, saying it was out of date. However, the government’s plan for the fibre-to-the-node alternative has not yet changed.


The Coalition's policy does not make mention of upload speeds, but in a  http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/hangout-on-air-with-malcolm-turnbull-20130804-2r72y.html" rel="nofollow - Google Hangout with Fairfax Media  in August Mr Turnbull said it would be "for retailers to consider" - possibly 4 to 6Mbps. "I do recognise there's a need for better upload speeds but it's important not to overdo this... the vast majority of traffic is heading down," Mr Turnbull said then.

Combined with the lower speeds, unpredictable performance and lack of a future upgrade plan, the report warned, the technology would become a bottleneck for businesses and block future services that require high-quality bandwidth.

Reduced revenue

The document says the new model would cost NBN Co $1.8 billion in lost annual revenue - almost half of the loss would be from the lack of high-end business services alone. In a best case scenario, revenue would be down 23 per cent, generating $4.8 billion for the company, from the $6.25 billion projected under Labor. In a worst case scenario, revenue would be 30 per cent to a $4.47 billion forecast, it says.

This would, in turn, limit the opportunity for new internet protocol TV (IPTV) broadcasters – for example, Foxtel's new Foxtel Play IP-based service offering, launched in July, and the long-running Fetch TV.

By 2021, limited multicast capabilities would cut projected revenues for that service by up to $356 million, or 75 per cent, compared to the 2012 NBN Co Corporate Plan, which is based on the capabilities of the fibre-to-the-premises NBN.

Yet that was only part of the lost revenues, which NBN Co has projected could reach $1.773 billion by June 2021. That would represent a 30 per cent decline over current projections.

Lower revenues reflect the lower prices the government could charge for services, compared with existing fibre-to-the-premises broadband pricing.

Such prices “would reflect their limited speeds and capabilities,” the report noted. “Accordingly, revenue from a FTTN product set is likely to be constrained.”

This would reduce projected average revenue per user (ARPU) – revenues from end-user connections – by around 10 per cent.

“Further,” the report noted, “NBN Co may have limited opportunity to grow ARPU due to the lack of faster speed tiers to which customers could migrate over time.”

Businesses affected

Slower speeds also presented issues for small businesses with even moderate bandwidth requirements, the document stated. They would find the network "will only partially cover their needs”.

“And many businesses require faster upload speeds to send large files, conduct video-conferencing, perform regular back-ups of business-critical data and run business applications.”

Similarly, it said the ability of businesses to have multiple internet and telephony users online simultaneously could not be guaranteed. 

The revelations were made in draft confidential recommendations prepared for the 'blue book' briefing for incoming Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull. 

Mr Turnbull's spokesman on Friday insisted it was not the blue book. He said that the official briefing was prepared by the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy (DBCDE) and not NBN Co, but declined to comment on whether it was based on NBN Co advice. 





Replies:
Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 1:21pm
Its also important to note Ziggy did support the FTTP of labor prior to being appointed to the NBN by turdbull


Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 3:52pm
   What is the Libs policy on implementing the construction of the network from the node to the premises once they have installed FTTN ? I haven't seen much discussion on this .


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Mr Prospector Mr Prospector wrote:

   What is the Libs policy on implementing the construction of the network from the node to the premises once they have installed FTTN ? I haven't seen much discussion on this .

they will need nodes every 400 metres from there on it drops speed,they will use old copper line from node to house 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 5:44pm
A recent study by Google and Deloitte Access Economics estimates that there are now 190,000 people employed in online-related companies in Australia,thats with this antiquated system we have now.

imagine what could be achieved with FTTP


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 8:45am
the ''report out today''   


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 9:08am
this is going to be so predictable 

the guy that runs telstra into the ground is chairman
the new ceo was the boss of vodaphone the most complained telco in australia loosing 70% of its base customers

no hope for the NBN  now


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 4:28pm
I used to like Turnbull but he sold his soul to Abbott. What a disgraceful effort by him on his fraudband plan Lied about every aspect of it and now is doing the old 'it's Labor's fault because we underestimated how bad they were " There will be no broadband network under these economic vandals and Rupert will get what he paid for. 

 Embedded image permalink


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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 4:44pm

Coalition NBN could reach gigabit speeds by 2030

Ben Grubb 
Published: December 12, 2013 - 3:37PM

 
  • http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbull-reveals-plan-to-break-nbn-promise-20131212-2z8ir.html" rel="nofollow - Malcolm Turnbull reveals plan to break NBN promise
  • http://www.smh.com.au/business/malcolm-turnbull-dumps-promises-as-nbn-costs-blow-out-by-29-billion-20131212-2z8ga.html" rel="nofollow - Malcolm Turnbull dumps promises as NBN costs blow out by $29 billion

The fixed-line portion of the Coalition's version of the national broadband network could be upgraded to super-fast gigabit broadband speeds by 2030, according to the NBN strategic review tabled in Parliament on Thursday.

Although the Coalition has not announced its plans for an upgrade, the strategic review has suggested that the fixed-line portion of the Coalition's NBN could achieve 250 megabits per second (Mbps) by 2025 and one gigabit per second (Gbps, or 1000 Mbps) by 2030.

The former Labor government committed to rolling out fibre-to-the-premise technology to 93 per cent of the Australian population, with eventual download speeds of up to 1000Mbps. The first of the 1 Gbps products will be  http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/one-gigabit-available-on-nbn-this-month-20131206-hv4pg.html" rel="nofollow - available to wholesalers this month .

The review doesn't say how much it will cost the government to upgrade to such speeds, but says making them available at a later date will save billions of dollars. About $5 billion would be saved if the government decided to roll out 250Mbps in 2025 and $4 billion would be saved if gigabit speeds were made available in 2030, rather than rolling out fibre-to-the-premise technology now.

To reach 250 Mbps, the review recommends using a technology still in the early stages of development called G.fast, which vendors such as  http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/broadband-vectoring-is-real-and-it-works-alcatel-chief-20131028-hv29f.html" rel="nofollow - Alcatel-Lucent say has a lot of potential  but others have said is  http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/is-gfast-an-nbn-saviour-or-just-a-sideshow-20130807-hv17y.html" rel="nofollow - not a silver bullet .

The review recommends using G.fast on the fibre-to-the-node portion of the network and the DOCSIS 3.1 standard to upgrade existing hybrid fibre-coaxial (HFC) networks to faster speeds. G.fast, which is likely to be available in a number of years, allows for download speeds of up to 1.3 Gbps at distances of around 70 metres. It works by reducing line noise on copper used in a fibre-to-the-node rollout for the last mile to the home.

To reach 1 Gbps in 2030, the review recommends upgrading to fibre-to-the-premise.

A spokesman for Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull told Fairfax Media the Coalition government had not yet announced its policy on an upgrade for the NBN.

But Mr Turnbull noted the cheaper upgrade path in Parliament.

"Even accepting that fibre-to-the-premise is the end game – and there's a big question mark over that – if the upgrade was only five years after the fibre-to-the-node [rollout] it would still be a wiser and more prudent economic decision," Mr Turnbull said.

He told Parliament the strategic review found that the Coalition's plan would save $32 billion compared with Labor's scheme. As such, it would allow the network to earn a financial return "roughly comparable" to government bonds.

The review was "a highly professional piece of work prepared in a very tight time" and had obtained input from the NBN Co, consultants and representatives from broadband companies in Britain and New Zealand, Mr Turnbull said. 

Waving NBN Co's leaked incoming government brief, opposition communications spokesman Jason Claire told Parliament it was the "real" review of the Coalition alternative broadband network.

"It's the report the minister doesn't want the public to see. It paints a very, very different picture,'' Mr Claire said.

"It paints a scathing picture [of the Coalition government's NBN plan]."

Among seven points Mr Clare said the brief raised was a projection that maintaining Telstra's copper network would cost between $600 million and $900 million over 10 years.

"Wouldn't it be better investing that money in building the fibre network than in maintaining the copper network?" Mr Clare asked. "Because the NBN is so important, it's important that it's done right. That means done using fibre and not copper which we will have to come back and replace."

Afterwards Mr Turnbull said Mr Clare was "placing his faith in a document written by an executive team that were wrong the first time, the second time, the third time and the fourth time".

"On the other hand, we have a new and experienced board, we have new and experienced management, we have leading consultants ... and not one that is being asked to reverse a political statement or policy."

Mr Clare criticised Mr Turnbull for focusing on Europe, where similar fibre-to-the-node schemes have been implemented.

"We're part of Asia, not Europe. We should be thinking ahead, thinking to the future to make sure we're setting ourselves to compete in the Asian century."

twitter This reporter is on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ben-Grubb/169049236497825" rel="nofollow - /bengrubb

http://twitter.com/itpro_au" rel="nofollow - Follow IT Pro on Twitter

http://%20www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/coalition-nbn-could-reach-gigabit-speeds-by-2030-20131212-hv5fn.html" rel="nofollow - http:// www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/coalition-nbn-could-reach-gigabit-speeds-by-2030-20131212-hv5fn.html



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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 5:47pm
yet another broken promise,shame they couldn't put the nation before party politics 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:09pm
new LNP slogan should be "destroying Australia faster"


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:10pm


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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:11pm
i was expecting you to come on here and thank me for letting you know this information before hand.

in order to stop making you look like fools with your incessant badgering of the liberal party nbn policy.

it seems that as fools go you have decided that the best way out is to hit yourself in the head a couple of more times before you type.

the informaiton that labor fed australia on the nbn was a massive lie. none of the information was correct. they got it wrong every time by billions of dollars and by 100,000's of connections. ever ime.

the report is released by independant companies saying hte company was a shambles.  a mess of people more focused on their own agenda and feeding the labor party lie.

they were never going to build it. they completely misrepresented and it is easy to understand why when they had gullilble fools that were willing to hand over a vote for a lie.

it was predicatble because we had already told you so. we were right and thank god turnbull is there to fix it. 


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:13pm
NO SURPRISES, NO EXCUSES !!!! Tony Abbott Sept 2013

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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i was expecting you to come on here and thank me for letting you know this information before hand.

in order to stop making you look like fools with your incessant badgering of the liberal party nbn policy.

it seems that as fools go you have decided that the best way out is to hit yourself in the head a couple of more times before you type.

the informaiton that labor fed australia on the nbn was a massive lie. none of the information was correct. they got it wrong every time by billions of dollars and by 100,000's of connections. ever ime.

the report is released by independant companies saying hte company was a shambles.  a mess of people more focused on their own agenda and feeding the labor party lie.

they were never going to build it. they completely misrepresented and it is easy to understand why when they had gullilble fools that were willing to hand over a vote for a lie.

it was predicatble because we had already told you so. we were right and thank god turnbull is there to fix it. 

for someone who believes he is so intelligent and having the highest IQ,how can you believe this BS    you have not commented on how far out Turbull was on costings ??  3 years behind his delivery timetable and you say independent report ?  you are kidding your self ?

Turball was saying they knew the cost prior to the election,now we didn't know  another lie from turdball on this issue  
Taking away almost 28% of the project and increasing costs to $41 Billion,what was Turdbull quoting before the election ??
pittifull


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:27pm
“The national broadband network policy was released many months ago by myself and Malcolm [Turnbull]. The Government’s been crawling all over it. No-one has been able to question the costings. It is absolutely bulletproof.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:32pm
Weren't the LNP(and people on this forum) claiming that the actual figure for the NBN was $91Billion Surely anything less than that is a better position than anticipated.

Unless of course they were lying. Shocked 


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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:34pm
Malcolm Turnbull today announced that the network we’re getting won’t be the faster, cheaper, better network he promised. That we’d have to wait longer for worse speeds, and we’ll get a mix of technologies rather than the one we really wanted. The worst part is that we’re now paying more for this inferior NBN than we thought we would when we chose it.


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:36pm
the informaiton labor provided was a lie. no suprise there.

the labor party got it massively wrong. no surprises there.

the labor party developed an incompetent mess of a company. must of modeled it on their own party. no suprises there.

no suprises at all 



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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:38pm
Do you reckon Rupert, who recently upped his stake in Foxtel will be upset we will have slower internet well into the future? Sounds like he is getting his payoff

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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Weren't the LNP(and people on this forum) claiming that the actual figure for the NBN was $91Billion Surely anything less than that is a better position than anticipated.

Unless of course they were lying. Shocked 

i realise you were so desperate as to think this was a win for labor instead of the embaressing situation that only outlined their total inaccuracy and teh shambles that they operated on.

the final figure that labor took the past election and you and others sprouted was $44bill cost to build your nbn. turnbull said it could cost $91bill and as that pollie tool suggested, this was plausable considering the informaiton we had. he was trying to get attention and you are claiming a victory because labor said it was $44bill and got it wrong by $29bill. no wonder the budget is a mess. dont forget too that their revenue made up figures were wrong by $14bill to the under. 

the part of interest today is the current plan said that by June 2014 you would have 1.12 million connected to FTTP. the information that turnbull based his figures was based on what labor was saying had already been acheived and how things are progressing.

we now learn that the actual figures is 357,000. wrong again by a massive amount. 

the size of their inaccuracy is disspointing in that the new plan that the liberal party wanted to implement.

thank god we know and people like yourselves can actually discuss reality rather than the stuff dreams are made of.

i am shocked as you at how bad the previous government was. 

thank god they are gone 







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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:54pm
No surprises, no excuses. 

They anticipated $91B and got less. They should be happy and have no excuses

Is there a single promise they intend honoring? 

Industry has decided they didn't get the govt they were promised and are very nervous. Businesses leaving in droves, even big mining companies bailing on projects. 

Good news it is only 33 more months Worry is how much damage they can do in that time.


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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

the informaiton labor provided was a lie. no suprise there.

the labor party got it massively wrong. no surprises there.

the labor party developed an incompetent mess of a company. must of modeled it on their own party. no suprises there.

no suprises at all 



Can't admitt the enormous costing blow out by malcome Turdbull ? Can't admitt he lied, can't admitt it's a broken promise, can't admitt it's anticompetitive, can't admitt it's an inferior product, no wonder someone nicknamed you Ben.


Posted By: saintly96
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 7:15pm
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/12/coalitions-nbn-cost-12bn-more-four-years-longer



The Coalition government has massively revised its plan for the National Broadband Network, breaking a promise to complete the first stage by 2016, after a strategic review found cost blowouts and poor management.

Under the new Coalition plan, the NBN will be completed with a mix of technologies containing just 26% fibre to the home, will cost almost $12bn more to complete and will take four years longer than promised by the Coalition before the election.

The revision follows the results of a scathing strategic review of the current financial and construction position of the network by the Coalition-appointed management of NBN Co.

The communications minister, Malcolm Turnbull, said the Coalition’s election policy was based on the assumption that NBN Co would meet its own forecasts, but the review marked the end of “heroic forecasts”.

“Our [election] policy was written without access to experts and information within the NBN Co and we assumed they would be further ahead than they were,” Turnbull said.

Labor immediately released an NBN Co review given to the Coalition government on 20 September, which advised the Coalition would be unlikely to achieve its promised speed of 25Mbps due to various contractual and technological obligations faced by the network.

“It shows that Malcolm Turnbull’s second-rate network will not cut it,” Labor’s communications’ spokesman Jason Clare said.

However Turnbull ridiculed the review, saying the former management had not managed to get any forecasts right under Labor.

The Coalition has revised its own projected costs of the NBN from $29.5bn promised during the election campaign to $41bn, though the minister committed to limiting its equity investment in NBN Co to $29.5bn. The rest will be funded by debt.

The government has appointed a panel of experts to conduct an independent cost-benefit analysis of broadband and a review of the regulatory arrangements for the NBN. It will be chaired by former treasury secretary and businessman Michael Vertigan, with director of the Australian Industry Group Alison Deans, economist and NBN critic Henry Ergas and regulatory consultant, telecommunications expert and economist, Tony Shaw.

The panel has been established to provide independent advice on the economic and social costs and benefits of different broadband technologies.

The NBN was announced by the Rudd government in 2009 and the corporate plan predicted the network would have passed 1.1m homes by 30 September this year.

According to the review released on Thursday, the NBN had passed 227,483 homes by that date, of which 153,977 can be connected.

The review found the network would take four years longer (until 2020) to complete under the Coalition’s revised multi-technology plan, but under Labor’s fibre to the premises plan, the NBN would not be finished until 2024.

Turnbull said the review found the NBN was in a “fundamentally worse position” than Labor had disclosed, with construction behind time, financial returns overestimated by $13bn to 2021, a lack of infrastructure experience in NBN Co staff, a “corrosive internal culture” and lack of commercial rigour.

The Labor model being rolled out is 100% fibre. The Coalition’s new model, now described as a Multi-Technology Mix (MTM), will include 26% fibre to the premises (FTTP), 44% fibre to the node (FTTN) and 30% hybrid fibre coaxial (HFC), which uses both optical fibre and coaxial cable for the delivery of pay TV, internet and voice services.

“I have always said fibre is great technology but it takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money,” Turnbull said.

The minister said the increase in internet demand did not necessarily mean a lot more speed was required, as suggested by supporters of the FTTP model to every home.

“Just because people take up more services on the internet doesn’t mean they necessarily need a lot more speed,” Turnbull said.

“There has been a correlation between increased demand to increased line speed. While there is a connection, it’s not linear connection.”

NBN Co executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski said the bottom line of the review was that an alternative to the existing model could be delivered sooner and cheaper. The new chief was critical of the culture inside NBN Co, describing decision-making as decentralised and not co-ordinated.

“The biggest issue is a commendable and tenacious commitment to the [original] corporate plan but a failure to recognise reality is moving so far away, then a failure to take action,” he said.

Switkowski said the new model would be a mix of existing technology as well as other future technology platforms that may emerge and resembles the architecture of systems in other advanced economies.

“Our calculations confirm that it is economically more efficient to upgrade over time than to build a future-proof network in a field where fast-changing technology is the norm,” Switkowski said.

But Clare said under the Coalition’s plan, capacity would be met as soon as it was built.

“Three years ago Tony Abbott said Malcolm Turnbull’s job was to demolish the NBN,” said Clare. “Then they promised to keep the NBN. This issue is a bit like Medicare. The government knows it’s too popular to destroy but they are doing almost everything they can here to destroy it, which means we are getting a second-rate NBN.”


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by mc41 mc41 wrote:

“The national broadband network policy was released many months ago by myself and Malcolm [Turnbull]. The Government’s been crawling all over it. No-one has been able to question the costings. It is absolutely bulletproof.

 
NEXT WINGNUT COMMENT

"what you heard me say is not actually what I said"


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 6:52am
that was a great line by abbott because the labor party could not argue against his figures because they were based on the labor party figures.

now we know the labor party and the nbn where lying.

we are getting the real story and i can understand that you want to hold on to your lie. it might make you feel special to be a part of a chorus of people that do not understand fibre technology and how copper networks operate. to talk of speeds that you really do not comprehend what they are able to achieve. people throw up gigabit speed like it we could not operate with out it. people dont realise that continued technology improvements allow the same copper wire that had kilobyte speed 10 years ago to have 20mb speed now. 

labor would of scrapped fttp. i promise you. they had the report already.

now they want to talk up  a report that a failed nbn executive team put together while working with a failed labor party after repeatable failures in costings, revenue predictions, rollout operations and current progress. they did not even get the simple measure correct of how many fttp existed in this country.

they were 2 years behind into a 3 year plan. and then you want to believe their predictions of what would of happened under the labor party nbn in 2020, 2025 or 2030? i hope you stay away from the share market or any other type of investment. 

the difference between what is happening now and what was happening a year ago is that the nbn co is being run properly, realistically and getting built. 

but feel free to hold onto your lie. i dont imagine you have many friends and therefore maybe it keeps you warm at night. 


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 7:29am
I never heard Turnbull/Abbott once say before the election that there were questions over whether they could deliver or not. 

I heard Turnbull claim that Labor couldn't deliver and that the cost was actually $91B We now find it is well short of the amount Turnbull claimed, but we still didn't hear from him that his plan may be undeliverable


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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 7:52am
Bottom line is the ideologue Abbott said he would destroy the NBN 

When he found out it was an election changer, he became an NBN neophyte(like Gonski, climate change) 

Now in power has dropped all promises and reverted to his original stated position. 

No surprises here, lying is in his DNA


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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 9:28am
desperate desperate desperate.

labor has been lying to you since the day this was dreamed up on the back of a napkin and the quality of the planning and implemenation has only got worse from there.

you now have the truth. turnbull went to the election and would never think to say that they had not idea what was going on. nobody did in reality becauae the information coming out of their terrible setup was all wrong. 

the nbn under labor has a record of being wrong and of followers believing anything. 

we now have a realistic plan and there is no one better in this country to run communications and lead the nbn than turnbull.

that is the reality and i understand you do not want to accept it. lies are important to the desperate


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 9:37am
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

desperate desperate desperate.


labor has been lying to you since the day this was dreamed up on the back of a napkin and the quality of the planning and implemenation has only got worse from there.

you now have the truth. turnbull went to the election and would never think to say that they had not idea what was going on. nobody did in reality becauae the information coming out of their terrible setup was all wrong. 

the nbn under labor has a record of being wrong and of followers believing anythinge . 

we now have a realistic plan and there is no one better in this country to run communications and lead the nbn than turnbull.

that is the reality and i understand you do not want to accept it. lies are important to the desperate


U really are thick, how can you possibly say that the figures LNP where using costings that came from nbn where incorrect when LNP believed they where wrong and that the cost was $90 billion,your believe is unbelievable your ignorance is astounding


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 9:37am
desperate desperate desperate.

No surprises, no excuses - Abbott Sept 2013

Excuses is all we have heard for 3 months


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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 10:18am
Will be an interesting re run in wa.


Posted By: cabosanlucas
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 5:56pm
the member for murdoch shouting that labors nbn would cost 73 bill. thats a bargain!! turdbull was telling all that labors plan would cost 94 bill.

fraudband is an absolute horror. and murdochs cronies have already said fttp was a direct threat to foxtel.

turnbull wipes the nbn co board clean and appoints who to head it now?...the ceo of that wonderfully successful and revolutionary telco vodafone!!! ....the biggest basket case company in oz. epic fail on so many levels.

who voted these clowns in? seriously, if you arent a north shore toff, you need certifying.


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 8:12pm
i love it how those that support fttp do not have the intelligence to know how to use it.

it is like they expect some magical world that fast broadband will provide. 

and when you ask them what 1gb sppeds will provide to the common person, the answer is that it is has not been thought of yet.

start pushing for high speed rail on every metro train station and tell me what that would bring?


-------------
"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 8:20pm
The problem is that we are number 42 on the list of internet speeds behind Mongolia. Labor had a plan to project us to the fastest in the world 40 times faster than now. The LNP Turnbull back-peddle plan will give us the same speed we have now but a wider distribution. We are going backward fast and it is to pay off Rupert for delivering us this crap govt

-------------


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 8:32pm
i realise that you are struggling with this concept but i will say it again,.

labor had no plan. they had a dream that they propogated into a lie.

they ahd already been told by nbn co that it was not going to happen and they new it was political suicide to admit it. all the figures that you have come up with on the nbn co are wrong. massively wrong. the expected revenues massively wrong, the cost massively wrong, the work that had been completed massively wrong, the future massively wrong, the time it would take to compete massively wrong. 

like i said before, keep holding onto that lie. if it makes you feel special to believe in that lie then dont let go of it. 

we wnat faster broadband and that is what we will get. i will be more than happy to get into turnbull if the new figures and targets he puts forward are not met or exceeded. then he will have no excuses.

this government is working harder and better than i could of imagined. great to see. 




-------------
"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 8:42pm
So sayeth the Liberal Party propaganda machine, and everything they say is turning out the truth, isn't it? 

-------------


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 8:57pm
How would we be travelling if we had stuck to dial-up?

The technology is advancing at express rate, but Turnbull is locking us into current speeds for at least the next 10 years. Idiotic 


-------------


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2013 at 9:03pm
exactly. now you are starting to get it. 

the truth is that the labor nbn co was a mess. 

the truth is we have a plan in place.

the truth is that you were never going to get what you wanted and you would of been busy trying to come up with why labor changed their plan if they had been elected. pity the got smashed 90 seats to 50. only just.

the truth is that the liberal party is methodically going through the portfolios of importance, treasury, education, comunications and infrastructure and the first step of planing is to work out where you are and then you can work out where you want to be.

they are methodically doing this and we will spend the first 6 months of 2014 seeing the plans in place to set this country up. 

buy some shares while they are cheap. the santa claus rally always happens after the second week of december and it is time to get in. 


-------------
"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:45am
"We"? I thought you were independent Shocked

-------------


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:09am
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i realise that you are struggling with this concept but i will say it again,.

labor had no plan. they had a dream that they propogated into a lie.

they ahd already been told by nbn co that it was not going to happen and they new it was political suicide to admit it. all the figures that you have come up with on the nbn co are wrong. massively wrong. the expected revenues massively wrong, the cost massively wrong, the work that had been completed massively wrong, the future massively wrong, the time it would take to compete massively wrong. 

like i said before, keep holding onto that lie. if it makes you feel special to believe in that lie then dont let go of it. 

we wnat faster broadband and that is what we will get. i will be more than happy to get into turnbull if the new figures and targets he puts forward are not met or exceeded. then he will have no excuses.

this government is working harder and better than i could of imagined. great to see. 



By than Earth would have melted into the sun.



-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:12am
It's not about targets It is about building the infrastructure to carry us over the next 50 years. Labor was pointed in that direction Turnbull, the Minister for Rupert, is aiming us at yesterday.

-------------


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:36am

Malcolm Turnbull guilty of 'greatest con job ever put to the Australian public', says RMIT lecturer

Updated Thu 12 Dec 2013, 9:17pm AEDT

RMIT lecturer Dr Mark Gregory says everyone in the telecommunications industry already knew  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/coalition-nbn-plan-to-cost-billions-more-than-promised/5152246" rel="nofollow - all the issues Malcolm Turnbull now claims have only just been discovered .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116" rel="nofollow - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116



-------------


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:43am
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Malcolm Turnbull guilty of 'greatest con job ever put to the Australian public', says RMIT lecturer

Updated Thu 12 Dec 2013, 9:17pm AEDT

RMIT lecturer Dr Mark Gregory says everyone in the telecommunications industry already knew  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/coalition-nbn-plan-to-cost-billions-more-than-promised/5152246" rel="nofollow - all the issues Malcolm Turnbull now claims have only just been discovered .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116" rel="nofollow - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116


I am sure we can find other RMIT lecturers with a 100% opposite view.................................


-------------




reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:48am
Another supporter of mediocrity

-------------


Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 9:59am
No browndog the ball is in Djebels court now.
If DJ can find an RMIT Dr who ISNT in favour of high tech delivery systems that can help them connect with super computers in another area then let them be heard I say.

-------------
I don't have one


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i love it how those that support fttp do not have the intelligence to know how to use it.

it is like they expect some magical world that fast broadband will provide. 

and when you ask them what 1gb sppeds will provide to the common person, the answer is that it is has not been thought of yet.

start pushing for high speed rail on every metro train station and tell me what that would bring?

sorry forgot you where the self anointed one on here,but sorry to bust your bubble,but please tell us where you obtained this beauty ?,not sure you have had a thought since you have been on the libs mail out.

you really are a silly man when you cannot say NBN under turbull is a disaster 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

exactly. now you are starting to get it. 

the truth is that the labor nbn co was a mess. 

the truth is we have a plan in place.

the truth is that you were never going to get what you wanted and you would of been busy trying to come up with why labor changed their plan if they had been elected. pity the got smashed 90 seats to 50. only just.

the truth is that the liberal party is methodically going through the portfolios of importance, treasury, education, comunications and infrastructure and the first step of planing is to work out where you are and then you can work out where you want to be.

they are methodically doing this and we will spend the first 6 months of 2014 seeing the plans in place to set this country up. 

buy some shares while they are cheap. the santa claus rally always happens after the second week of december and it is time to get in. 

have you already forgotten about the gonski double backflip ?communication is now disaster,NBN loaded with turdbulls cronies   nothing changes   jobs for the boys



Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Malcolm Turnbull guilty of 'greatest con job ever put to the Australian public', says RMIT lecturer

Updated Thu 12 Dec 2013, 9:17pm AEDT

RMIT lecturer Dr Mark Gregory says everyone in the telecommunications industry already knew  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/coalition-nbn-plan-to-cost-billions-more-than-promised/5152246" rel="nofollow - all the issues Malcolm Turnbull now claims have only just been discovered .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116" rel="nofollow - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/turnbull-guilty-of-greatest-con-job-ever-put-to/5153116


I am sure we can find other RMIT lecturers with a 100% opposite view.................................

we ?  go ahead  find it,look forward to reading it 


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 7:57pm
wc41 is chucking another mental.
Odds on he doesn't have a clue what and who needs more than Turnbull will deliver.
labor were all talk with no hope of ever keeping their promises.
Their claytons Roll out had stalled.

-------------
NEVER , Report a crime.
Odds are too high , that you are talking to the offender.


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i realise that you are struggling with this concept but i will say it again,.

labor had no plan. they had a dream that they propogated into a lie.

they ahd already been told by nbn co that it was not going to happen and they new it was political suicide to admit it. all the figures that you have come up with on the nbn co are wrong. massively wrong. the expected revenues massively wrong, the cost massively wrong, the work that had been completed massively wrong, the future massively wrong, the time it would take to compete massively wrong. 

like i said before, keep holding onto that lie. if it makes you feel special to believe in that lie then dont let go of it. 

we wnat faster broadband and that is what we will get. 

By than Earth would have melted into the sun.

guru you do realise don't you HFC gets slower the more people who connect to it right?


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:06pm
here is another beauty
In all HFC areas, not every house has HFC running past it. I've seen it suggested that 20% of homes in cable areas do not have access to cable.

So before you rely on getting HFC you'd better be sure that you can actually get it.

When Optus started running cable in the 90s they had Telstra chasing them down streets with their own cable. In the rush they both left a lot of the small cul de sacs uncabled because they weren't considered to be worth the trouble.

If you have one of those houses, you have been royally screwed by Turnbull, because it looks like he has no plans whatsoever to do anything about it.




Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

wc41 is chucking another mental.
Odds on he doesn't have a clue what and who needs more than Turnbull will deliver.
labor were all talk with no hope of ever keeping their promises.
Their claytons Roll out had stalled.

here you go yet again  opening your large mouth and inserting both feet.

turdbull has fallen over at the first hurdle and you defend him ? like i said you r a troll

go back to doing what you do best,if there was anything.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:13pm

news NBN Co’s Strategic Review has found that it will not be possible to deliver the Coalition’s stated policy goal of delivering broadband speeds of 25Mbps to all Australians by the end of 2016 or at the projected cost, and has recommended that up to a third of Australian premises theoretically already covered by HFC cable networks effectively receive no upgrade at all under a drastically revised deployment scheme.

When the Coalition http://delimiter.com.au/2013/04/09/coalition-releases-long-awaited-rival-nbn-policy/" rel="nofollow - released its rival NBN policy in April , it based the policy on the core pledge that the party would deliver download speeds of between 25Mbps and 100Mbps by the end of 2016 — effectively the end of its first term in power — and 50Mbps to 100Mbps by the end of 2019, effectively the end of its second term. According to the Coalition’s statement, the 25Mbps to 100Mbps pledge applied to “all premises”, while the higher pledge by 2019 applies to “90 percent of fixed line users”.

The detailed policy document disclosed that these speeds would predominantly be delivered over the long-term with fibre to the node technology through upgrading Telstra’s existing copper network, focusing on areas where “the poorest broadband” services are currently suffered by residents and businesses. By the end of 2019, some 71 percent of premises were slated to be covered with fibre to the node infrastructure.

In some other areas — such as greenfields housing estates, and “wherever copper has to be replaced” — such as areas where Telstra’s copper has degraded — fibre to the premise technology, as under Labor’s current NBN plan, would be deployed. The Coalition estimated that some 22 percent of premises would be covered by FTTP under its plan. The remainder of premises, as under Labor’s NBN plan, would be covered by satellite and fixed wireless technologies.

However, in its landmark Strategic Review document published today, and http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/NBN-Co-Strategic-Review-Report.pdf" rel="nofollow - available online in PDF format , NBN Co instead recommended a drastically reduced rollout schema, which it dubbed an “Optimised Multi-Technology Mix”).

In this mix, FTTP-style broadband would be deployed to some 24 percent of Australian premises located in metropolitan areas by the end of 2020, with another 32 percent to receive FTTN infrastructure, 12 percent to receive Fibre to the Basement or similar and a large 30 percent to receive effectively no upgrade, considering that percentage is already covered by the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus. This rollout in total would cover 93 percent of the population.

In remote areas (the remaining seven percent of Australia), 10 percent of those areas would be covered by FTTN, 53 percent by fixed wireless, and 37 percent by satellite.

http://delimiter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/nbn.png" rel="nofollow">nbn

In a statement, NBN Co claimed this this “new look NBN” would “resemble the architecture of similar broadband rollouts in other advanced economies, embracing a range of technologies including Fibre to the Node and HFC alongside Fibre to the Premises, fixed wireless, satellite as well as future advances in telecommunications technology.”

The company said this approach should be able to deliver access to wholesale speeds of up to 50 Mbps to 90 percent of Australia’s fixed-line footprint and wholesale speeds of up to 100 Mbps to 65 percent to 75 percent by 2019. The company also claimed it would reduce costs and bring forward revenues for the company, reducing peak funding from what NBN Co has newly estimated at $73 billion under Labor’s NBN plan to $41 billion under its revised outlook. This figure is $11.5 billion more than the Coalition promised in April.

“… the accumulated delays and state of NBN Co mean the Government’s aim of ensuring nationwide access to fast broadband by 2016 cannot be achieved,” http://www.minister.communications.gov.au/malcolm_turnbull/news/strategic_review_of_the_national_broadband_network#.UqkidGRR62s" rel="nofollow - said Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull in a statement this morning . “The Government will work with NBN to search for ways to accelerate the rollout in its early years.”

NBN Co’s new executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/media/news/strategic-review.html" rel="nofollow - claimed in a statement that the approach that NBN Co had recommended to the Government would delivery “very fast broadband to homes more quickly and at less cost”.

“We will do this by investing taxpayers’ money appropriately on the right technologies at the right time, by translating a long term milestone into a rolling series of realistic and actionable near term plans, and by being alert to upgrades in technology and shifts in consumer needs,” wrote Switkowski.

“By 2019 more people will be able to access higher speed broadband than would have been the case had the previous plan continued on its current trajectory. What’s more, viable economically attractive upgrade paths currently being trialled internationally are capable of providing speeds well beyond 100 Mbps and can be deployed as consumer demand increases over time.”

However, it does not appear as though NBN Co’s new ‘Optimised MTM mix’ is currently possible to deliver, based on the company’s current commercial relationships and the state of Australia’s technology sector.

A large number of premises currently covered by the HFC cable footprint, which NBN Co is planning to use to provide broadband to some 30 percent of metropolitan Australian premises, cannot connect to the HFC cable networks, as they live in so-called multi-dwelling units such as apartment blocks, or work in office environments where multiple offices are in the same facility.

Neither Telstra nor Optus are currently willing to connect such facilities to HFC cable unless the whole building is connected; something most landlords are currently unwilling to pay for. This will mean residents and business users in those areas will likely remain using ADSL2+ technology, which typically only delivers speeds of up to 16Mbps. Theoretically it can go a little higher — up to 25Mbps, but few Australian users see such speeds in practice, even if they are close to their local telephone exchange. The overwhelming of Australians in the HFC cable footprint are not using the technology, due to its inflexibility and cost, and the inability of many to get it connected.

Secondly, the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus are not open to wholesale access and are not regulated for price. NBN Co cannot currently provide Internet services over such networks unless the ACCC or the Parliament forces Telstra and Optus to open their HFC networks, or to sell that infrastructure to NBN Co. Neither Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull nor Switkowski were able to answer questions this morning on how NBN Co would gain and control access to such networks, or how it would force Telstra and Optus to offer certain prices on the networks.

The NBN Strategic Review also found significant problems with Labor’s existing NBN policy. It estimated that Labor’s all-fibre NBN will cost $73 billion and take until 2024 to complete, and increase average broadband bills by up to 80 per cent to meet the rate of return targeted by the former Government. NBN Co’s persistent inability to meet its targets reflected “a lack of deep internal experience in complex infrastructure, construction projects and project management”,” the report found.

Key decisions were taken “without appropriate commercial rigour and oversight”, it added, and NBN Co’s previous leadership clung to unachievable Corporate Plan forecasts “notwithstanding clear factual evidence to the contrary”.

However, compared with NBN Co’s new ‘Optimised MTM’-style rollout, it appears clear that Australians, and the telecommunications industry as well, would still be significantly better off under Labor’s original NBN policy, even if it was delivered four years late and at a cost around $30 billion more than originally planned.

This is because the construction of the NBN would result in all Australians achieving significantly upgraded broadband services, with 93 percent of the population having access to gigabit speeds under the planned FTTP rollout. Under NBN Co’s new plan, a significant percentage of the population would receive little to no upgrade compared to their current access. In addition, unlike FTTP and FTTN, HFC cable infrastructure is a shared medium at the local network level, meaning it will likely suffer from congestion issues as additional users are added to the network.

The extra $30 billion NBN Co now estimates Labor’s original NBN policy will cost, and the extra four years it estimates it will take to complete the project, are not viewed as statistically significant factors by most technical commentators, due to the long-term nature of the NBN project, in that it will deliver infrastructure that will provide services over the next 50-100 years.

NBN Co’s new model would likely see demand for upgrades starting from when it was slated to be completed in 2020, whereas Labor’s original NBN model would not need to see its fibre upgraded in the foreseeable future.

NBN Co’s new rollout plan is not the first time that allegations have arisen that the Coalition is planning to ignore Australia’s areas ‘covered’ by existing HFC cable areas. In February 2013, then-Communications Minister Stephen Conroy http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/14/coalition-fttn-would-ignore-hfc-areas-conroy/" rel="nofollow - challenged then-Shadow Minister Malcolm Turnbull to confirm his rival broadband policy would not see fibre to the node technology immediately deployed to areas already covered by the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus, despite the fact that few used the ageing HFC networks.

Subsequently, Turnbull confirmed that metropolitan areas of Australia in the HFC cable footprint of Telstra and Optus http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/15/turnbull-confirms-hfc-areas-last-to-get-fttn-if-at-all/" rel="nofollow - would not immediately receive the Coalition’s planned fibre to the node upgrade if the Coalition won Government and did not commit to deploying FTTN infrastructure in those areas in the long-term.



-------------


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i realise that you are struggling with this concept but i will say it again,.

labor had no plan. they had a dream that they propogated into a lie.

they ahd already been told by nbn co that it was not going to happen and they new it was political suicide to admit it. all the figures that you have come up with on the nbn co are wrong. massively wrong. the expected revenues massively wrong, the cost massively wrong, the work that had been completed massively wrong, the future massively wrong, the time it would take to compete massively wrong. 

like i said before, keep holding onto that lie. if it makes you feel special to believe in that lie then dont let go of it. 

we wnat faster broadband and that is what we will get. i will be more than happy to get into turnbull if the new figures and targets he puts forward are not met or exceeded. then he will have no excuses.

this government is working harder and better than i could of imagined. great to see. 



By than Earth would have melted into the sun.


ok to lie in the first place though


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

news NBN Co’s Strategic Review has found that it will not be possible to deliver the Coalition’s stated policy goal of delivering broadband speeds of 25Mbps to all Australians by the end of 2016 or at the projected cost, and has recommended that up to a third of Australian premises theoretically already covered by HFC cable networks effectively receive no upgrade at all under a drastically revised deployment scheme.

When the Coalition http://delimiter.com.au/2013/04/09/coalition-releases-long-awaited-rival-nbn-policy/" rel="nofollow - released its rival NBN policy in April , it based the policy on the core pledge that the party would deliver download speeds of between 25Mbps and 100Mbps by the end of 2016 — effectively the end of its first term in power — and 50Mbps to 100Mbps by the end of 2019, effectively the end of its second term. According to the Coalition’s statement, the 25Mbps to 100Mbps pledge applied to “all premises”, while the higher pledge by 2019 applies to “90 percent of fixed line users”.

The detailed policy document disclosed that these speeds would predominantly be delivered over the long-term with fibre to the node technology through upgrading Telstra’s existing copper network, focusing on areas where “the poorest broadband” services are currently suffered by residents and businesses. By the end of 2019, some 71 percent of premises were slated to be covered with fibre to the node infrastructure.

In some other areas — such as greenfields housing estates, and “wherever copper has to be replaced” — such as areas where Telstra’s copper has degraded — fibre to the premise technology, as under Labor’s current NBN plan, would be deployed. The Coalition estimated that some 22 percent of premises would be covered by FTTP under its plan. The remainder of premises, as under Labor’s NBN plan, would be covered by satellite and fixed wireless technologies.

However, in its landmark Strategic Review document published today, and http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/NBN-Co-Strategic-Review-Report.pdf" rel="nofollow - available online in PDF format , NBN Co instead recommended a drastically reduced rollout schema, which it dubbed an “Optimised Multi-Technology Mix”).

In this mix, FTTP-style broadband would be deployed to some 24 percent of Australian premises located in metropolitan areas by the end of 2020, with another 32 percent to receive FTTN infrastructure, 12 percent to receive Fibre to the Basement or similar and a large 30 percent to receive effectively no upgrade, considering that percentage is already covered by the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus. This rollout in total would cover 93 percent of the population.

In remote areas (the remaining seven percent of Australia), 10 percent of those areas would be covered by FTTN, 53 percent by fixed wireless, and 37 percent by satellite.

http://delimiter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/nbn.png" rel="nofollow">nbn

In a statement, NBN Co claimed this this “new look NBN” would “resemble the architecture of similar broadband rollouts in other advanced economies, embracing a range of technologies including Fibre to the Node and HFC alongside Fibre to the Premises, fixed wireless, satellite as well as future advances in telecommunications technology.”

The company said this approach should be able to deliver access to wholesale speeds of up to 50 Mbps to 90 percent of Australia’s fixed-line footprint and wholesale speeds of up to 100 Mbps to 65 percent to 75 percent by 2019. The company also claimed it would reduce costs and bring forward revenues for the company, reducing peak funding from what NBN Co has newly estimated at $73 billion under Labor’s NBN plan to $41 billion under its revised outlook. This figure is $11.5 billion more than the Coalition promised in April.

“… the accumulated delays and state of NBN Co mean the Government’s aim of ensuring nationwide access to fast broadband by 2016 cannot be achieved,” http://www.minister.communications.gov.au/malcolm_turnbull/news/strategic_review_of_the_national_broadband_network#.UqkidGRR62s" rel="nofollow - said Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull in a statement this morning . “The Government will work with NBN to search for ways to accelerate the rollout in its early years.”

NBN Co’s new executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/media/news/strategic-review.html" rel="nofollow - claimed in a statement that the approach that NBN Co had recommended to the Government would delivery “very fast broadband to homes more quickly and at less cost”.

“We will do this by investing taxpayers’ money appropriately on the right technologies at the right time, by translating a long term milestone into a rolling series of realistic and actionable near term plans, and by being alert to upgrades in technology and shifts in consumer needs,” wrote Switkowski.

“By 2019 more people will be able to access higher speed broadband than would have been the case had the previous plan continued on its current trajectory. What’s more, viable economically attractive upgrade paths currently being trialled internationally are capable of providing speeds well beyond 100 Mbps and can be deployed as consumer demand increases over time.”

However, it does not appear as though NBN Co’s new ‘Optimised MTM mix’ is currently possible to deliver, based on the company’s current commercial relationships and the state of Australia’s technology sector.

A large number of premises currently covered by the HFC cable footprint, which NBN Co is planning to use to provide broadband to some 30 percent of metropolitan Australian premises, cannot connect to the HFC cable networks, as they live in so-called multi-dwelling units such as apartment blocks, or work in office environments where multiple offices are in the same facility.

Neither Telstra nor Optus are currently willing to connect such facilities to HFC cable unless the whole building is connected; something most landlords are currently unwilling to pay for. This will mean residents and business users in those areas will likely remain using ADSL2+ technology, which typically only delivers speeds of up to 16Mbps. Theoretically it can go a little higher — up to 25Mbps, but few Australian users see such speeds in practice, even if they are close to their local telephone exchange. The overwhelming of Australians in the HFC cable footprint are not using the technology, due to its inflexibility and cost, and the inability of many to get it connected.

Secondly, the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus are not open to wholesale access and are not regulated for price. NBN Co cannot currently provide Internet services over such networks unless the ACCC or the Parliament forces Telstra and Optus to open their HFC networks, or to sell that infrastructure to NBN Co. Neither Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull nor Switkowski were able to answer questions this morning on how NBN Co would gain and control access to such networks, or how it would force Telstra and Optus to offer certain prices on the networks.

The NBN Strategic Review also found significant problems with Labor’s existing NBN policy. It estimated that Labor’s all-fibre NBN will cost $73 billion and take until 2024 to complete, and increase average broadband bills by up to 80 per cent to meet the rate of return targeted by the former Government. NBN Co’s persistent inability to meet its targets reflected “a lack of deep internal experience in complex infrastructure, construction projects and project management”,” the report found.

Key decisions were taken “without appropriate commercial rigour and oversight”, it added, and NBN Co’s previous leadership clung to unachievable Corporate Plan forecasts “notwithstanding clear factual evidence to the contrary”.

However, compared with NBN Co’s new ‘Optimised MTM’-style rollout, it appears clear that Australians, and the telecommunications industry as well, would still be significantly better off under Labor’s original NBN policy, even if it was delivered four years late and at a cost around $30 billion more than originally planned.

This is because the construction of the NBN would result in all Australians achieving significantly upgraded broadband services, with 93 percent of the population having access to gigabit speeds under the planned FTTP rollout. Under NBN Co’s new plan, a significant percentage of the population would receive little to no upgrade compared to their current access. In addition, unlike FTTP and FTTN, HFC cable infrastructure is a shared medium at the local network level, meaning it will likely suffer from congestion issues as additional users are added to the network.

The extra $30 billion NBN Co now estimates Labor’s original NBN policy will cost, and the extra four years it estimates it will take to complete the project, are not viewed as statistically significant factors by most technical commentators, due to the long-term nature of the NBN project, in that it will deliver infrastructure that will provide services over the next 50-100 years.

NBN Co’s new model would likely see demand for upgrades starting from when it was slated to be completed in 2020, whereas Labor’s original NBN model would not need to see its fibre upgraded in the foreseeable future.

NBN Co’s new rollout plan is not the first time that allegations have arisen that the Coalition is planning to ignore Australia’s areas ‘covered’ by existing HFC cable areas. In February 2013, then-Communications Minister Stephen Conroy http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/14/coalition-fttn-would-ignore-hfc-areas-conroy/" rel="nofollow - challenged then-Shadow Minister Malcolm Turnbull to confirm his rival broadband policy would not see fibre to the node technology immediately deployed to areas already covered by the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus, despite the fact that few used the ageing HFC networks.

Subsequently, Turnbull confirmed that metropolitan areas of Australia in the HFC cable footprint of Telstra and Optus http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/15/turnbull-confirms-hfc-areas-last-to-get-fttn-if-at-all/" rel="nofollow - would not immediately receive the Coalition’s planned fibre to the node upgrade if the Coalition won Government and did not commit to deploying FTTN infrastructure in those areas in the long-term.


a load of BS in here,no competition ,modern countries are going FTTH,and a lot of places will not be getting higher speeds.   lies lies and more lies,no wonder he needed his cronies on the board,does 1 of the board members just put on own a boat with Turd bull  ?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 8:53pm
wc41..    Just as well you have the copy and paste facility.
You would have an seizure.

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NEVER , Report a crime.
Odds are too high , that you are talking to the offender.


Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 10:36pm
Haven't read that one MC so cheers.
Just another broken promise from the party of the non core and what WE promised , party.
The usual apologists will now appear and say its Labors fault. Blind to the FACT the NLP or LNP , had FULL access to the details of the economy PRIOR to the election.
Queue the white noise..... no replies to the facts just ideology. In 5,4,3,2,..

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I don't have one


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

wc41..    Just as well you have the copy and paste facility.
You would have an seizure.

And if you didn't have a splatter screen over your monitor u couldn't read what was posted.


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 11:25pm
Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has rejected suggestions that his personal relationship — including the co-ownership of a boat — with a senior NBN Co executive, will influence the organisation's operations.

Turnbull is due to release a National Broadband Network (NBN) strategic review on Thursday, a document that has been compiled under the company's head of strategy and transformation, JB Rousselot.

Federal Labor on Wednesday highlighted the minister's co-ownership of a yacht with Rousselot.

"Given this fact, how can we believe anything that this report says?" Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare asked.

Turnbull was flattered to hear his "ancient couta boat" referred to as a yacht, before defending Rousselot's credentials.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 12:05am
wc ... That's a lot about nothing.
Do you practice to achieve such perfection./?

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NEVER , Report a crime.
Odds are too high , that you are talking to the offender.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 9:16am
Embedded image permalink

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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 9:45am

http://delimiter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/coalition-nbn.jpg" rel="nofollow">coalition-nbn



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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 9:46am
Gee it sure looked a reasonable option. Shame it was a piece of fiction from a dishonest govt

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Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 9:51am
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i realise that you are struggling with this concept but i will say it again,.***from what follows I don't think its someone else struggling with the concept***


labor had no plan. they had a dream that they propogated into a lie.
***Why is it a lie? You keep saying that as if there was no way we could possibly BUILD such a thing when we did telegraphy in the late 1800's nation wide, on this point put up or shut up****
they ahd already been told by nbn co that it was not going to happen and they new it was political suicide to admit it.***please provide a citation*** all the figures that you have come up with on the nbn co are wrong. massively wrong the expected revenues massively wrong, the cost massively wrong, the work that had been completed massively wrong, the future massively wrong, the time it would take to compete massively wrong. 
***that's a lot of massives for a bloke whos backing a different model using the same delivery method , can I ask if you NOW think the FTTN is also MASSIVELY underfunded and undeliverable***
like i said before, keep holding onto that lie.***again the use of the LIE. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. You are so ideologically BLIND that you don't realise the LNP version USES THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURE*** if it makes you feel special to believe in that lie then dont let go of it. 
***YOU must get over this line Q***
we wnat faster broadband and that is what we will get.***I wouldn't hold your breathe on that as the inquiry was MEANT to DELAY the build time**** i will be more than happy to get into turnbull if the new figures and targets he puts forward are not met or exceeded. then he will have no excuses.***Again I say to you this inquiry was more about DELAYING the process so as to SPEND LESS***

this government is working harder and better than i could of imagined. great to see. 
***If only you actually realised the machinations.****



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I don't have one


Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 9:58am
Now Questions the A.C.T got this tech in the late 90's early 2000's please feel free to read what you will probably believe is a LIE perpetuated by the Lefty loonie luvvies rusted on at Labor HQ...
Thanks to Wikipedia for the companies OWN by lines.....
Company[edit]





TransACT headquarters in Dickson, Australian Capital Territory
The development of TransACT's vision and business plan commenced in 1996, led by a small team comprising Robin Eckermann (Chief Architect), Joe Ceccato, Robert Clarke and Jane Taylor, working under the guidance of ACTEW Executive Neville Smith. One of the distinguishing features of the business model was the adoption of an Open Access Network or OAN philosophy – many years before that approach attracted widespread interest around the world. The National Broadband Network or NBN is also modelled on similar OAN philosophy, separating the wholesale and retail businesses.

TransACT operates the open network in collaboration with ten ISPs. These include a mix of large national organisations and smaller local operations. One of the ISPs (Grapevine) which was previously owned by both TransACT and ActewAGL was taken onboard by TransACT as a wholly owned subsidiary in March 2010.

The company has an extensive fibre network in the ACT. SDH, ATM and IP/MPLS Metro Ethernet technologies are used to deliver services via dedicated hubs or gateways that are built around the region. Services are delivered to various businesses, government departments and residential customers via a diverse range of access networks.

The first broadband platform rolled out known as Phase 1 network was based on FTTC (fibre to the curb) design with nodes being placed within 300 metres of premises. SDH backbone is used to transport voice, data and video whereas VDSL technology is used as the access network to get customers connected to TransACT's high-speed broadband and digital TV services. Coincidentally, TransACT also became the first telco in Australia to implement this particular high-speed broadband technology much superior to ADSL, which was prominent throughout the country at that time. TransACT remains as the only telco to support VDSL and the products are still actively sold with network reach-ability to over 55,000 homes in the ACT.

The Phase 2 rollout involved TransACT placing its own DSLAM equipment within Telstra exchanges and utilising their own fibre-optic backhaul to their main data centre in Dickson, ACT. TransACT completed their ADSL 2/2+ rollout on 1 March 2007. The Phase 2 network is available to anyone outside Phase 1 with a Telstra phone line in Canberra and Queanbeyan, as long as they are within sufficient distance of their telephone exchange – as with any ADSL service.

In 2009, TransACT again became one of the very first providers in the world to commence greenfield rollout and upgrade of existing VDSL access network to VDSL2, the most advanced and fastest digital subscriber line (DSL) broadband technology commercially available, commencing with a number of medium- to high-density developments in Canberra’s more established suburbs. The upgrade increases broadband speeds by up to four times, compared to the fastest existing ADSL2+ networks used by most carriers. As with the existing VDSL network, VDSL2 products also include triple-play services. By mid-2009, multiples sites including The Avenue on Northbourne Avenue, Skyplaza in Woden and The Gateway at Kingston Foreshore were upgraded to VDSL2 with more projects currently underway.

The telco is the first in the country to build a dedicated G.984 (GPON) based FTTH or FTTP gateway and also the first provider in Australia to offer broadband services at up to 100 Mbit/s download and 20 Mbit/s upload speeds which were made available on 4 September 2009. The gateway build in the suburb of Forde close to the Gungahlin township trunks back to TransACT's core network in Dickson via a high-bandwidth MPLS backbone. With such infrastructure in place, TransACT is able to offer triple-play services to customers via fibre without the need for any copper in the path, thus enabling higher bit-rates. Similar PON technology and network hierarchy has been chosen by NBNco Limited, the company established in 2009 to design, build and operate the National Broadband Network

As of end of 2009, five new greenfield suburbs, namely Forde, Franklin, Crace, Casey, Bonner, some parts of Kingston and the Flemington road corridor, were all wired up for this next-generation technology with many new suburbs expected to come on board in the ACT region. As of mid-2010, the total number of premises passed through had reached almost 11,000.

TransACT also offers a range of wholesale services to business and ISP customers, including Colocation, IP transit, peering, data centre services, VPN, managed services, point-to-point and point-to-multipoint services including VPWS and VPLS services of up to 1 Gbit/s for customers anywhere on their network.

In July 2010, they launched the 'eHub', Australia's first commercial IPTV product bundled with a feature-rich set-top box capable of handling high-definition video with an onboard personal video recorder.

Queue the Q....Its a lie I tells ya! All a dream coz Alan Jones told me so and that Andrew Bolt from the always truthful Daily Tele agreed.


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I don't have one


Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 10:02am
BD, I'm still getting over HOW they could offer a FTTN option and NOT have researched it at all. I mean they said it will cost an exact $29.5 Billion , they couldn't have just dreamed that figure up could they?
I mean surely that's the reason why it cant be done now at that cost and time frame with the promised outcomes they went to an election with?
Otherwise they would look like Labor on the issue .....
OMG Questions is right , its all a lie!!!

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I don't have one


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 10:13am
Bagman I think the only truthful thing they have said about the NBN was 3 years ago when Abbott appointed Turnbull shadow minister for destroying the NBN

They knew that was a bad position going into an election, so like many other policies they just said "what they said" with no plan or intention to do anything but open a hundred enquiries and a commission of audit to back out of everything promised.

Dishonest!!



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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 10:28am
BD .. Wasn't there an almighty set of problems arrived to virtually stop the progress.    I recall asbestos as one mentioned.
Was the suggestion that the ALP lied about progress made. False.
Would there roll out have ever been completed.

-------------
NEVER , Report a crime.
Odds are too high , that you are talking to the offender.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 10:32am
Maxie, all the so called problems were well know before the election, but it didn't stop Abbott and Turnbull making their false promises anyway.

The only real impediment is a will to do it and disappoint PM Rupert


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Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 10:47am
Its hilarious that maccamax knows about the asbestos and the LNP didn't until the report came in this week.
The other key to remember when the LNP privatised Telstra one of the conditions was they no longer had to maintain the cables so the asbestos was never going to be removed. Ever.
If they DID fully disclose the asbestos when selling to Mum and Dad investors they never would have received the $$'s they did.
I get a chuckle when the conservatives try and use the asbestos as a way to whack the wrong party for the problem. Then again the Murdoch empire said very little so the Murdoch fans and listeners like the aforementioned don't know..... par for the course for some.

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I don't have one


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 11:10am
Rupert recently increased his stake in Foxtel. Why would he do that if internet tv on fast broadband is going to cut holes in in it? Because his bought and paid for govt is ensuring it wont happen

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Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 11:45am
Add that to the attacks on the ABC for having the temerity to be online , for all and for free and we start to see a picture developing....
I LOVE the NBN idea , yet cannot believe that BOTH parties have been using it as leverage at the cost of the truth. FTTp, FTTn I just want our country brought into the 21st century...

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I don't have one


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 3:01pm
How much are telstra going to bleed turd bull for ?  

piggy now saying we will replace the bad copper ??   10 years ago it was according to him 10 minutes to midnight,gets on NBN says copper is all good,now saying bad copper will be replaced..

bizzar to say the least     its ok Turbull can take him out on the tact he owns with other board member.


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

wc ... That's a lot about nothing.
Do you practice to achieve such perfection./?

 
anything over 3 words or containing facts is about nothing to you 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 3:04pm
Murdock is happy because his mate wing nut has eliminated competition 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 7:00pm
another brilliant reason why we are going forward

I see that on the upload rates, we rate at no 96, behind such advanced countries as Uganda, Tanzania and Senegal.

Even Papua New Guinea beats us, rated at 81. Bangladesh at 70 and Ethiopia at 39!

Of course, use of FTTN and HFC will ensure that we retain our place on the rankings, we may even make into the hundreds as many of those lower than us on the list are doing FTTP roll outs.

It's OK, the jobs/productivity of the future will go to those other countries who will have the infrastructure to support it. Meanwhile, our "infrastructure" PM is busy building... roads.



Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 7:05pm
The good news is we will now get most of the opening days , for movies at the cinema.
No one can host it at that speed. True story...

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I don't have one


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:19am
you do realise that we have the choice of which upload rate that we want to use and most people are content with the 1mb standard that our operators wish to use. that includes most business's.

probably have no idea what you are talking about and why.

we can get much higher download and upload speeds if we wanted them. nobody wants to pay for it though. 




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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:26am
Of course technology has ground to a halt, and that upload speed will be sufficient in 8-10 years time when the NBN is completed.

$80B on we will be in the same or worse position, still grappling with decayed copper networks

Dumb, dumb, dumb.


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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:33am
has not ground to a halt. since when does technology ground to a halt.

this is the inexperience argument that keeps getting brought up. 

copper is a fantastic medium for data transfer and i have a feeling that all those states that have been mentioned as having faster upload rates have copper too.

the way data is transferred can be improved by improvements the routers and switches break down the data and send the data through. that is why you have copper lines that could not transmit a kilobyte 50 years ago and now can handle 10GB connections.

i know when i first looked into it the 10GB connections were up to zero metres of copper 5 years ago and now it is 15m. 

if you want a faster upload, which most people do not need unless they are in a company with serious cloud activity, then ring up your provider and ask for a 8mb up and down line. and you will get it and pay more for it.

if you dont, then stay on the standard 1mb upload that all the providers automatically put you on.

you can argue for those that do not wish to care and only want to believe in a pipe dream, where you are 100% incorrect is when you say that the technology has ground to a halt. 

the data transfer rates have massively increased over time and will continue to do so over copper. 


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

has not ground to a halt. since when does technology ground to a halt.

this is the inexperience argument that keeps getting brought up. 

copper is a fantastic medium for data transfer and i have a feeling that all those states that have been mentioned as having faster upload rates have copper too.

the way data is transferred can be improved by improvements the routers and switches break down the data and send the data through. that is why you have copper lines that could not transmit a kilobyte 50 years ago and now can handle 10GB connections.

i know when i first looked into it the 10GB connections were up to zero metres of copper 5 years ago and now it is 15m. 

if you want a faster upload, which most people do not need unless they are in a company with serious cloud activity, then ring up your provider and ask for a 8mb up and down line. and you will get it and pay more for it.

if you dont, then stay on the standard 1mb upload that all the providers automatically put you on.

you can argue for those that do not wish to care and only want to believe in a pipe dream, where you are 100% incorrect is when you say that the technology has ground to a halt. 

the data transfer rates have massively increased over time and will continue to do so over copper. 

 
have you forgotten your nun chairmans words on copper ??  its 10 minutes to midnight.

now just for you Q if you are more than 400 meters from a node you are dead,if you are in a house with 2,3, or 4 computers you are dead,if it rains you are dead,this system your mate turn bull has adopted is a pigs breakfast,hotchpotch on the run.

its embarrassing that you being the most intellectual person that lives cannot understand this.

 around the world  other industries have been successful based on the ""built it and they will come" philosophy that was the whole point of NBN  a game  changer that will now sit idol for 3 more years.

YES and most progressive countries are going FTTP  


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:32pm
interesting read from
buddeblog.com.au
The VDSL vectoring and G.Fast technologies are still in their infancy – Australia will be one of the key guinea pigs globally, and again a range of issues will no doubt crop up - 

HFC network. This has already largely been written off by the two operators, Telstra and Optus – for more than a decade they have shown little interest in using this technology for high-speed broadband delivery. Investments in this network have been very low or non-existent and, again, the question of the quality of the network is a serious issue. The new plan basically calls for a total overhaul of the current networks and basically what it will deliver is an HFC network that is as good as new, and in principle it can deliver FttH quality. However this will depend on how the network is configured, as this is a shared technology and the more people using it, the lower the quality gets.

it is possible that many areas will have to be serviced by three different technologies. This in itself will be a logistical nightmare. 

if there are not any delays, this more complex plan will only be delivered three years earlier than the FttH plan 

FttH, however, is – as everybody, including the Minister, agrees – by far the best future-proof technology. It will last for the next 25-50 years. Is three years going to make that much difference if the alternative model will eventually have to be upgraded anyway? 

The good thing is that the FttH rollout will continue into 2015, which will give the government some breathing space to get its house in order. As mentioned, for the next two years the FttH will remain the major technology to be rolled out. If we get, let’s say, 20% penetration of Australian premises by 2016 it will be interesting to see what the media reports will be at that time compared with the developments surrounding FttN and HFC connections, which by that time will only have just started to ramp up. There could well be a similar outcry by the Opposition at that time, lamenting delays and cost blowouts. - 

It is about catering for the dozens of devices in the home that will be connected to broadband. The NBN is as much about facilitating the mobile and wireless developments as it is about the fixed network itself. The growth in services that need to be accessed from the cloud, as well the millions of M2M sensors and devices, requires a synchronous robust network, one that has enough capacity, is secure and protects privacy.

If we had politicians with that level of vision we could have asked our engineers to deliver us an NBN that could do all of that. And if that had been done they most certainly would not have come up with a network that had very different levels of quality, capacity, robustness, security, etc.




Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:42pm
i am currently .39km from the closest node(seriously i checked). lucky for me that the house i live in was not 10m to the left or otherwise i would be dead.

better not tell me next door neighbors.

and i dread to live in a house with only 4 computers. what are we, back in the 2000's already.

the build it and they will come philosophy has had an impact on local areas where they focus on the suburbs to provide high speeds data transfer and high quality data centres with high security. that has provided the areas of innovation.

not delivering it to the burbs so they can download movies and porn faster.

more than happy to have areas such as mascot and sydneyt cbd that have either a high amount of the highest quality largest data centres in australia(mascot) or financial districts( sydney cbd)

those people will pay for it and use it and make money from it.

the worse part is that the nbn was developed to go to the burbs and this has meant the roll out is slow and those that are willing to pay for it do not have access.

i dont care of Ziggy said then or now. i know what copper can and wont do. the irony is that you would of attacked him for what he said 10 years ago about copper and now you want to use it against him. 

and the quote is 5mins to midnight he said 10 years ago. i wonder how many times you were wrong on your predictions 10 years ago? you have struggled to stay correct for 5mins and therefore we can only wonder what future you saw for 2013. 

flying cars anybody. 




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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i am currently .39km from the closest node(seriously i checked). lucky for me that the house i live in was not 10m to the left or otherwise i would be dead.

better not tell me next door neighbors.

and i dread to live in a house with only 4 computers. what are we, back in the 2000's already.

the build it and they will come philosophy has had an impact on local areas where they focus on the suburbs to provide high speeds data transfer and high quality data centres with high security. that has provided the areas of innovation.

not delivering it to the burbs so they can download movies and porn faster.

more than happy to have areas such as mascot and sydneyt cbd that have either a high amount of the highest quality largest data centres in australia(mascot) or financial districts( sydney cbd)

those people will pay for it and use it and make money from it.

the worse part is that the nbn was developed to go to the burbs and this has meant the roll out is slow and those that are willing to pay for it do not have access.

i dont care of Ziggy said then or now. i know what copper can and wont do. the irony is that you would of attacked him for what he said 10 years ago about copper and now you want to use it against him. 

and the quote is 5mins to midnight he said 10 years ago. i wonder how many times you were wrong on your predictions 10 years ago? you have struggled to stay correct for 5mins and therefore we can only wonder what future you saw for 2013. 

flying cars anybody. 

MY prediction for you Q is you will still be working for somebody LOL being supervised ? 


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by mc41 mc41 wrote:

Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

i am currently .39km from the closest node(seriously i checked). lucky for me that the house i live in was not 10m to the left or otherwise i would be dead.

better not tell me next door neighbors.

and i dread to live in a house with only 4 computers. what are we, back in the 2000's already.

the build it and they will come philosophy has had an impact on local areas where they focus on the suburbs to provide high speeds data transfer and high quality data centres with high security. that has provided the areas of innovation.

not delivering it to the burbs so they can download movies and porn faster.

more than happy to have areas such as mascot and sydneyt cbd that have either a high amount of the highest quality largest data centres in australia(mascot) or financial districts( sydney cbd)

those people will pay for it and use it and make money from it.

the worse part is that the nbn was developed to go to the burbs and this has meant the roll out is slow and those that are willing to pay for it do not have access.

i dont care of Ziggy said then or now. i know what copper can and wont do. the irony is that you would of attacked him for what he said 10 years ago about copper and now you want to use it against him. 

and the quote is 5mins to midnight he said 10 years ago. i wonder how many times you were wrong on your predictions 10 years ago? you have struggled to stay correct for 5mins and therefore we can only wonder what future you saw for 2013. 

flying cars anybody. 

MY prediction for you Q is you will still be working for somebody LOL being supervised ? 

ummm  forgot to say nooooo because unlike you I wasn't a know it all then Thumbs Up


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2013 at 10:22pm

If you believe NBN Co executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull, the NBN Strategic Review released last week  http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/governments-nbn-approach-the-way-of-the-future" rel="nofollow - is all about re-using HFC cable , implementing Fibre to the Node and minimising the use of Fibre to the Premises. However, a close reading of the document shows that it also finds that former NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley was right: Labor’s original FTTP vision can still be delivered very affordably and in a timely manner.  http://delimiter2.com.au/quigley-right-nbn-strategic-review-shows-fttp-still-cost-effective-viable/" rel="nofollow - I analyse the issue in an extensive, 3,500 word article on Delimiter 2.0 this morning . A sample paragraph:

“A close reading of NBN Co’s Strategic Review report published last week shows the former chief executive of the company was overwhelmingly correct: A predominantly Fibre to the Premises National Broadband Network can still be rolled out with only modest cost and timeframe implications. But that’s a truth that nobody currently involved in the process seems to want to hear.”

I’m not the only person to have noticed this. I note this article by Informa senior analyst Tony Brown, http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/it-opinion/turnbull-does-what-he-said-he-would-still-nbn-question-remains-20131216-hv5xv.html" rel="nofollow - published on the Sydney Morning Herald . In it, Brown writes:

“… the Strategic Review concludes that NBN Co could actually build the all-FTTP NBN by mid-2024 – just three years behind its original schedule and only four years after the completion of Turnbull’s hybrid model … From a political perspective it now gives his opponents the chance to ask, ‘Why are you delivering a second-class network when we could have a world-class FTTP network with just a couple more years’ work?’”

Politicians are fond of telling selective versions of the truth. It is true that the NBN Strategic Review recommends a model which heavily favours re-use of the HFC networks as well as FTTN/FTTB options … a model which nicely dovetails with the Coalition’s policy requirements. What is not clear at this stage is why this makes any sense at all, when Australia could have a fully fledged almost universal FTTP network for only a few billion dollars more and only a few years later, if a different path was taken.

But then, that’s politics. Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has conclusively demonstrated he doesn’t want to hear sense … or even, really,  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/09/12/back-turnbull-tells-fttp-petitioners-youve-democracy/" rel="nofollow - hear the public at all , when it comes to NBN policy. No doubt the Minister would prefer that commentators such as myself and Brown not continually raise these inconvenient truths. No doubt the Australian public, or at least  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/03/18/nbn-support-rises-to-73-percent-of-australians/" rel="nofollow - the 70 to 80 percent of it which supports Labor’s NBN model , would prefer the Minister actually, you know, do his job and get Australia a better broadband network, one which would propel us into the future rather than looking squarely into the past.




Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 8:20pm

It should be obvious that Orwell’s comments on the abuse of language for political purposes apply very well to the current NBN situation. In December NBN Co’s Switkowski said the company’s preferred Multi-Technology Mix approach would deliver fast broadband to homes “more quickly and at less cost … by investing taxpayers’ money appropriately on the right technologies at the right time, by translating a long term milestone into a rolling series of realistic and actionable near term plans, and by being alert to upgrades in technology and shifts in consumer needs.”

What a bunch of old-fashioned Orwellian bullgelati. What neither Switkowski nor Turnbull said was that this would be accomplished by cancelling a third of the existing NBN rollout, forcibly acquiring and upgrading high-risk HFC cable networks which don’t offer Australia a long-term broadband solution, and leaving much of the rest of Australia with a FTTN rollout that even Switkowski admits would need upgrading five years after it was completed. Orwell was right; it’s time to stop accepting the way our politicians talk in public. It is only when we stop using their words ourselves that we will see the reality of our tragic situation.




Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2014 at 9:31pm
news Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull and NBN Co have been invited to formally respond to specific allegations raised by the Opposition yesterday that evidence shows NBN Co’s Strategic Review published last year is based on “flawed and unreliable” premises and was in fact designed by Turnbull to constitute a “pre-ordained political outcome”.


Yesterday the NBN Senate Select Committee, which is controlled by Labor and the Greens, published an extensive 194 page interim report into its initial findings regarding the revamp of the project. You can download the report here in PDF format. Former Communications Minister Stephen Conroy said that the report showed there were seven major problems with NBN Co’s Strategic Review, including:

The review assumes a delay in the time taken to complete Labor’s fibre build that is at odds with NBN Co’s current run rate, but is used to strip out $11.6 billion in revenues and add $13 billion to peak funding
The review excludes approximately $4 billion in ‘business as usual’ architecture savings from Labor’s fibre build, which were signed off by previous NBN Co management
It assumes higher costs for the fibre build would add $14.4 billion in capital expenditure, a claim which is at odds with evidence from NBN Co and the Department of Finance and does not allow for normal and reasonable build efficiencies
The review includes overly pessimistic revenue assumptions for the fibre build that do not reflect existing strong demand for NBN services, or the high data usage patterns of Australians using the NBN and ignore demand for important elements of broadband quality, particularly reliability and upload speeds
The review adds a third satellite to NBN Co’s deployment, without direct explanation and with a launch assumed at such a time (FY2021) to include costs but exclude revenues from scenario comparisons
It includes scenario comparisons which include costs and revenues for the Multi Technology Mix build at assumed completion, but exclude revenues worth $15 billion from a fibre build after 2021
It acknowledges that the MTM model will need to be upgraded, but then refuses to outline the costs for these upgrades, dramatically reducing the real cost of the MTM

The Coalition’s dissenting response to the Opposition’s statements on the issue is also contained in the committee’s report. However, the dissenting response does not specifically address any of the points made by Labor with respect to NBN Co’s Strategic Review. Because of this, Delimiter has directly invited Turnbull and NBN Co to respond to the specific allegations.

In its response, the Coalition complained heavily about what it described about “an abuse of process” relating to the publication of the Senate’s report








Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 9:14pm
Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull and NBN Co have declined to formally respond to specific and ongoing allegations raised by the Opposition and other commentators that evidence shows NBN Co’s Strategic Review published last year is based on “flawed and unreliable” premises that undercut the Coalition’s case for radically overhauling Labor’s NBN project.


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 11:32pm
The NBN again releasing numbers that have shown the NBN under the LNP to be unadulterated BS


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 4:52pm

http://delimiter.com.au/category/analysis-2/" rel="nofollow - ANALYSIS ,  http://delimiter.com.au/category/2opinion/" rel="nofollow - OPINION ,  http://delimiter.com.au/category/telecommunications2/" rel="nofollow - TELECOMMUNICATIONS  - Written by  http://delimiter.com.au/author/renai/" rel="nofollow - Renai LeMay  on Thursday, April 10, 2014 15:09 -  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/04/10/dont-know-cover-nbn-anymore/#commenting" rel="nofollow - 7 Comments

I don’t know how to cover the NBN anymore

Tags:  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/coalitions-broadband-network/" rel="nofollow - coalition's broadband network ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/credibility/" rel="nofollow - credibility ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/fibre-to-the-node/" rel="nofollow - fibre to the node ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/fibre-to-the-premises/" rel="nofollow - fibre to the premises ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/integrity/" rel="nofollow - integrity ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/journalism/" rel="nofollow - journalism ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/malcolm-turnbull/" rel="nofollow - malcolm turnbull ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/media/" rel="nofollow - media , http://delimiter.com.au/tag/national-broadband-network/" rel="nofollow - national broadband network ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/nbn/" rel="nofollow - nbn ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/nbn-co/" rel="nofollow - nbn co ,  http://delimiter.com.au/tag/politics/" rel="nofollow - Politics
turnbull-99

opinion Australia’s National Broadband Network project is now in uncharted territory. Beyond a joke, beyond a politicised mess, and even beyond farce, the incredibly inconsistent handling of the project by Liberal Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has led it far outside the bounds of rational discourse or intelligent consideration.

When you first get your start as a journalist, things tend to appear very black and white. Your role is very clear: You are to hold powerful people to account and write about issues that matter to your readers. You go about this role in the way that intrepid journalists do  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Newsroom_%28U.S._TV_series%29" rel="nofollow - on TV dramas : Pen in hand and handheld recording device in your pocket, you set about asking Ministers and executives tough questions. You receive tips via email and breathlessly follow them up with PR people who seem determined to stonewall you.

However, as time goes on, a funny thing starts to happen. As you gain knowledge in your field and experience as a journalist, those black and white lines, as well as that stereotypical image of a journalist, start to break down.

Instead of formally interviewing people, you tend to just talk to them. Instead of all your conversations being on the record, they tend to be almost totally “on background” or “off the record”. Instead of reacting when press releases or news tips are sent to your inbox, you tend to start proactively investigating areas which you know readers will be interested in. You gain an understanding of the deeper nature of things and stop seeing things as being black and white. There are suddenly two, three or even five sides to every story, and those nuances start creeping into your writing. You’re still writing about the same topics, but in a completely different kind of way.

I’ve been this kind of journalist for quite a while now.

I mention this because I want to give readers some understanding of the nature of the quandary which is currently plaguing Australian journalists such as myself when writing about the project formerly known as the National Broadband Network, and some insight into the nature of the wider mediasphere surrounding it.

Usually once a week or so, I get the chance to catch up with a senior Australian IT industry figure of some kind or another for a detailed chat. It could be a managing director of a major technology vendor or telco, it could be a senior industry analyst, it could be a chief information officer or it could be a politician such as an MP or Senator, or one of their staff members. Usually I do this sort of thing over the phone, but sometimes it’s over coffee. It’s all off the record — usually we’re just shooting the breeze and sharing background information to mutual benefit, rather than trying to pursue a certain objective.

I tend to find, and I believe I am not alone in finding this, that at the end of the conversation, no matter who you’re talking to or what you were initially talking about, the conversation turns towards the National Broadband Project (or, if you prefer, the Coalition’s Broadband Network under the new Government).

Everyone has their view on this most universal of project, because as fundamental telecommunications infrastructure it affects everyone. Almost everyone is of the view that the long-term future should focus on Fibre to the Premises, but there are a thousand views on how to get to that point, and a thousand views on every move which the Government of the day or NBN Co makes in delivering the policy.

This isn’t new; I’ve been having these conversations ever since the formation of the NBN back in April 2009, when the project captured the public imagination. However, something new has crept into the discussion over the past six months, ever since the Coalition took power in the September Federal Election: A sense of deep confusion and disquiet about what’s going on.

Previous to the Federal Election, there was a sense that the Coalition’s rival NBN policy, although markedly inferior to Labor’s, was at least a known quantity. Senior Australian technologists knew that https://www.liberal.org.au/fast-affordable-sooner-coalitions-plan-better-nbn" rel="nofollow - Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull planned to dramatically change the project , but that change was largely expected to focus on a single modification of the rollout model. And, even if few technologists liked the Fibre to the Node concept, the technology is being used in the UK and all throughout Europe. Again, this was a known quantity.

However, since the Federal Election, the conversations I’ve been having have changed in tone.

Now, when you speak to senior Australian IT industry figures about the NBN, the conversation starts the same way it used to, with various opinions being expressed about the latest news and what it means. But the enthusiasm and speculation it quickly peters off. After a few minutes, bigger and much more serious questions start to be raised and people start talking about their fears.

The first and most obvious one is the long-term future of Australia’s broadband needs. Senior Australian technologists could broadly accept Fibre to the Node as a concept from the Coalition, because it was obvious that in the long-term — say, 10 to 20 years — the fibre could be extended all the way to the premises. There’s precedent for this — in the UK,  http://delimiter.com.au/2012/06/29/330mbps-bt-extends-fibre-from-node-to-premise/" rel="nofollow - BT has already started extending its FTTN rollout to FTTP in certain areas , and there are similar movements in other countries which are a ways down the FTTN path.

However,  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/12/12/nbn-co-abandons-fttn-rollout-hfc-areas/" rel="nofollow - the Coalition’s unexpected move in December to cancel the planned FTTN rollout in areas already covered by the HFC cable networks  of Telstra and Optus has caused a deep-seated feeling of uncertainty in the industry.

It is certainly technically possible to open up the HFC cable networks to wholesale competition, extend their reach to more premises in their footprint, and even to extend fibre from the HFC junction points all the way to the premises. However, the problem is that this technique just hasn’t been pursued internationally to any extent. This approach will place Australia far our on its own in terms of its national telecommunications infrastructure. If it fails, as it may do, we’ll be back at square one, needing to upgrade Australia’s copper network to fibre, but potentially a decade or more behind other countries on that curve.

When you get to a senior level in the technology sector, more so than any other sector, you become aware that ‘going it alone’ in a technical sense and trying new things is a highly risky endeavour. Technology investment cycles are all about investing with the crowd at the right point on the development cycle. Invest too early (for example: The first Dot Com boom), and you may find the technology you’re investing in is overhyped and will be dropped quickly. Invest in the wrong technology (for example, WiMax) you will quickly find the industry passes you by as it focuses its efforts on something else.

http://delimiter.com.au/2014/02/24/australia-fastest-4g-speeds-world/" rel="nofollow - Australia’s mobile networks have become the best in the world  because companies such as Hutchison and Telstra massively invested at the right time in the right technology (3G) and in the right spectrum bands. But with its HFC cable move, many senior Australian figures suspect, the Coalition is investing too late in a technology which is increasingly viewed as obsolescent.

Then too, the disquiet also extends to other issues.

Malcolm Turnbull came to power as Communications Minister promising a clear set of broadband objectives for NBN Co, delivered through a clear set of technologies, with an additional mandate to increase the transparency and accountability of the project. But since that time, almost every element of the Member for Wentworth’s platform has been thrown out the window. Despite the Minister’s protestations, it has become very clear throughout the past six months that Turnbull has no intention of even pretending to play by the rules he laid down for the governance of NBN Co and the project as a whole.

Turnbull spent much of his time in Opposition  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/04/09/nbn-must-costbenefit-analysis-october-2010-re-print/" rel="nofollow - heavily criticising the previous Labor administration’s approach to the NBN , including NBN Co’s executive team and the project’s lack of a cost/benefit analysis.

But in his first six months in the role, our new Communications Minister has subverted NBN Co’s organic hiring process by  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/10/21/turnbull-stacks-nbn-review-telstra-cronies/" rel="nofollow - putting in place an executive team at the company with which he, or the Liberal Party, have existing close links , jettisoning along the way a number of executives and board directors who didn’t fit the mould.

That team, and a cluster of consulting firms which Turnbull originally said wouldn’t be hired, put together a supposedly independent Strategic Review of the company’s operations and future which conveniently perfectly fit the Minister’s vision for a future landscape based on HFC cable and Fibre to the Node.

And of course, yesterday Turnbull abandoned any pretence at consistency  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/04/09/hypocrisy-turnbull-approves-mtm-nbn-without-costbenefit-analysis/" rel="nofollow - by ordering NBN Co to go ahead with the ‘Multi-Technology Mix’ approach  recommended by the Strategic Review, without even waiting for his own cost/benefit analysis to be delivered — an analysis, we might also note,  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/12/16/turnbull-appoints-liberal-supporter-ergas-nbn-panel/" rel="nofollow - that had already been stacked with open Liberal supporter and staunch critic of Labor’s NBN vision, Henry Ergas . Questioned about the move, Turnbull said  http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-switch-without-analysis-about-getting-on-with-it-turnbull-7000028231/" rel="nofollow - it was aimed at allowing NBN Co to get on with its job  — a luxury he certainly never afforded Labor.

In my conversations with senior IT industry figures, there has always been a degree of understanding of the politicisation of the NBN project. People understand that the best technical or commercial outcome may, at times, be sacrificed to political aims for the sake of expediency. That’s nothing new: The sector as a whole is experienced with this dynamic because of the decade-long process of opening the industry to competition and privatising Telstra. A certain amount of this is viewed as the cost of doing business with the Government.

However, the level of disquiet in the conversations I am having at the moment speaks to something deeper. The IT industry is highly aware that Turnbull has, only a few months after the election, completely abandoned the policy the Coalition took to the election, installed his own cronies at NBN Co and is pumping out a series of heavily compromised audits and reviews,  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/03/07/witch-hunt-turnbull-opens-labor-nbn-policy-review/" rel="nofollow - some of which appear solely aimed at ensuring Labor will never win power again . Along the way, the Minister is regularly saying one thing and doing something completely different, including blithely taking steps which he strongly criticised the previous Government for.

And there is also the ongoing investment stasis which Turnbull has placed the telecommunications industry in, courtesy of  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/02/04/turnbull-destabilises-broadband-regulatory-environment/" rel="nofollow - his ongoing refusal to make a regulatory decision  about whether TPG, Telstra, Optus and iiNet should be allowed to deploy their own networks in competition with NBN Co’s infrastructure.

The incredible ongoing performances of NBN Co executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski, in which he appears unable to speak the name of his own company ( http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/extended-interview-with-ziggy-switkowski/5376498" rel="nofollow - repeatedly referring to it as “NBN” instead of “NBN Co” ) and constantly  http://delimiter.com.au/2013/11/20/need-100mbps-nbn-switkowski-tells-senate/" rel="nofollow - downplaying the need for fast broadband  to the Senate as well as stating that  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/03/14/nbn-technology-choice-doesnt-matter-says-switkowski/" rel="nofollow - NBN Co’s technology choices don’t actually matter , are not helping matters.

Amid all this, precious little attention appears to be being paid to the risk of catastrophic long-term outcomes for Australia’s broadband environment as a whole.

Against my own wishes, I am viewed as something of an expert on the NBN, having reported on the telco sector for most of the past decade. And so it is natural that I am asked, constantly, virtually every day, for my private opinion on what is going to happen next. What does it all mean? Is the Coalition seriously trying to destroy the whole project? What will the future of Australia’s telecommunications environment look like? Is Turnbull mad? Or just incompetent?

I try to explain to people the truth: That we have a Minister who is constantly, on a daily basis, acting chaotically, inconsistently and without integrity; sometimes even unethically. That it’s impossible to forecast the path of NBN Co or the rest of the industry because of this fact. That, when it really comes down to it, I just don’t know what to expect on a day to day basis when it comes to what is supposed to be an extremely long-term and stable infrastructure project.

In my conversations with people, this doesn’t really help them. They come to me looking for certainty and insight. The revelation that I am just as confused as they are leaves them profoundly disturbed, as it reinforces their own impression that the Government is in complete chaos in this area, and that this may significantly harm Australia’s technology sector and broader economy in the long-term.

It also doesn’t help me. In just six short months, we have seen such extraordinary and often highly inconsistent behaviour from Turnbull when it comes to the NBN that I fundamentally don’t know how to write about the project any more.

Going back to the start of this article: When you become a senior journalist you tend to develop a broader sense for the underlying nuanced truth of any situation. But at the moment, Turnbull’s behaviour is so inconsistent that I don’t know what to make of the Minister’s statements on any given day.

Over the past several weeks the Coalition  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/03/19/great-nbn-sell-already-begun/" rel="nofollow - has given increasing indications that it wants to offload NBN Co’s satellite business . But yesterday Turnbull reassured us that  http://www.minister.communications.gov.au/malcolm_turnbull/speeches/commsday#.U0YXauZ99Yg" rel="nofollow - it wasn’t up for sale any time soon . Before the election the Liberal MP repeatedly criticised Labor for its lack of a NBN cost/benefit analysis. Now we are told there is no need to wait for one. Before the election we were told that FTTN was the order of the day for the NBN. Now it’s HFC cable. NBN Co’s Strategic Review was to be put together by the company itself. But when it was actually delivered, it was presented by a bevy of consulting firms. Turnbull was wholly against a fully FTTP rollout for Tasmania only a few months ago. But then  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/02/21/pressured-turnbull-agrees-aerial-fttp-trials-tasmania/" rel="nofollow - he stated he was open to overhead fibre trials . And so on. It never stops.

Today NBN Co announced it had made a series of core executives — head of corporate and commercial Kevin Brown and chief technology officer Gary McLaren — redundant, with chief financial officer Robin Payne also to leave the business after “acting” in his role for a while. I’ve never heard of a company which has offloaded its CFO, CTO and head of commercial in one go. And I don’t know how to report it. Is this a grossly political move because the trio supported retired founding NBN Co CEO Mike Quigley? Or just new NBN Co CEO Bill Morrow putting his own team in place? Either way, it’s virtually unprecedented in Australia’s corporate sphere for a company to get rid of three such competent senior executives in one go.

As a journalist, you can only deal with this constantly shifting landscape so long before your head starts to spin with confusion. At the moment, I distrust virtually everything that Turnbull or his NBN Co executive team has to say on the NBN, because it very much feels like the project as a whole could literally turn on a dime depending on what the Minister had for breakfast this morning.

And so it becomes impossible to report NBN-related news. How, as a journalist, can I honestly be expected to publish Turnbull’s statements on any issue, when the Minister could change his mind tomorrow? How, for instance, can we take the Member for Wentworth seriously when he says the NBN needs a cost/benefit analysis, when he abjectly casts aside his three years’ worth of complaints on the issue on a whim? When NBN Co executive chairman Ziggy Switkowski  http://delimiter.com.au/2014/03/17/switkowski-2009-fibre-make-copper-obsolete/" rel="nofollow - appeared to completely change his views on the project  after Turnbull appointed him?

The only answer that I have found to these issues is to stop considering Australia’s political landscape as being the first-world democracy which we’re used to.

In countries with different political systems, such as quasi- or ex-communist giants Russia and China (which I studied during my political science degree) or the less developed world, few people take politicians as seriously as we are used to taking them in Australia, because the population is aware that there is a vast and very blatantly obvious difference between what politicians say and what they actually mean or will do.

The motivations which drive them are entirely different than those we are used to in Australia, and so the journalists report them differently, being aware that many statements are inherently not made in good faith. Politicians in such countries are not held accountable to the same degree as they have historically been in countries such as Australia. And now I fear we are headed down the same degraded path.

To think about Australia’s political system in this light has been a very difficult decision for me to come to, because it would suggest that something fundamental has quietly changed recently about the way Australia governs itself. But then, I don’t think I’m the only journalist struggling with these issues.

Politics should be, and often has been in Australia, about the chance to glimpse a brighter future. But at the moment it feels like we are grappling with a different beast entirely, and must change our reaction to that as a consequence. Something less than hope is passing for currency in Australia’s political system just now; something with a more vague outline than despair.

Image credit: Office of Malcolm Turnbull

http://delimiter.com.au/2014/04/10/dont-know-cover-nbn-anymore/" rel="nofollow - http://delimiter.com.au/2014/04/10/dont-know-cover-nbn-anymore/



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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 5:45pm
hopefully they stop talking then. and wait for the proper solution to be found.

as opposed to the mess that was the nbn when turnbull walked in. 

some of the inferior speak in that piece outlines greatly what is the problem with commentators that can post and that makes them an expert.

if you think that the largest infrastructure mess that has existed in this country could be solved in 6 months, then you are lacking any creditibility to ever write on the subjecct again.

turnbull is working through the reports, putting forward ideas for testing and building the plan for the next 15 years. no one knew how bad it was until they entered the building. the joke figures they were using suggested theyw ere further thant hey were and really it was a desperate attempt to cover the cracks in order to present a case to the public.

you can relax now. it is all getting reparid. 


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 6:31pm
Turnbull pulls the plug on FTTP, so ‘we’re back to the drawing board’
by Paddy Manning
Federal
That’s it. For me, anyway, and residents of some 3.4 million Australian homes — ironically perhaps the most willing and able to pay for fast broadband. We’re set to miss out on fibre to the premise, because we sit within the footprint of the existing hybrid-fibre or coaxial cable network that delivers pay TV.

Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull decided our fate yesterday when he instructed NBN Co., chaired by former Telstra boss Ziggy Switkowski, to work towards a multi-technology mix for the National Broadband Network. Retaining the HFC network is a fundamental plank of the MTM strategy.

This is not news to anyone following the NBN closely, it’s just that now it’s official. We already knew the Coalition intention — when in opposition, Malcolm Turnbull decried the inherent waste of money, with the government paying hundreds of millions of dollars to shut down the perfectly serviceable HFC networks.

The NBN Co. strategic review released in December included MTM as the preferred option and envisaged that about 30% of homes would get the NBN through a substantially like upgraded HFC network that will deliver FTTP-like broadband.

The release of the strategic review sparked a fierce debate among the technology specialists about whether the HFC network was up to it. Among the concerns was serviceability of an overhead cable network that, although much younger than copper, had been exposed to the weather for 20 years. Crikey put this to Telstra chief David Thodey at the half-year results — he flatly rejected it, given Telstra had just spent $300 million upgrading the HFC network in Melbourne.

Journalist Adam Turner wrote two strong pieces arguing it wasn’t. After copping flak from Turnbull’s office, Turner ultimately conceded the quality of broadband delivered via HFC depended on how much was invested in the the upgrade, and he feared the government’s attitude — reasonably, given Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s view that FTTP is “wacko” and Treasurer Joe Hockey’s confected budget crisis — would be that “near enough was good enough”.

Guru (and NBN Co. director, admittedly) Simon Hackett wrote an excellent analysis which argued the gaps in the HFC network will be filled in, and there will be more nodes meaning less competition among local households for bandwidth (which slows down present HFC internet at the moment to 100/2Mbps (download/upload speed). Certainly, it seems, the broadband delivered over the HFC network now is no guide to the broadband that will be delivered via HFC by NBN Co. in the future.

What is also certain, however, is that it won’t be as good as FTTP. It will be delivered sooner, at lower cost to the NBN and therefore the country. It will give FTTP-like performance perhaps — and hopefully, where it falls short, it will be priced more cheaply.

Like everything to do with the NBN, it is hard to be definitive about any of this because it is still up in the air and depends crucially on the deals negotiated with Telstra and Optus. Under its $9 billion deal with Telstra (the government was going to kick in an extra $2 billion to fund the universal service obligation), NBN was to buy the HFC network and shut down voice and data so only Foxtel could come down the line. The price was never split out. NBN was also going to pay about $800 million for Optus’ HFC network. We also don’t know yet how much of NBN’s budget will be set aside to upgrade the HFC network.

Last week, Business Spectator’s Alan Kohler wrote a heartfelt memo to Turnbull — “don’t stuff up the NBN” — which rang true: he’d spoken to people in inner Melbourne’s Brunswick, which already has FTTP, to find out what they thought of the NBN and what they were doing with it. Striking was one NBN customer Melissa who just loved the internet speeds: “It’s increased the value of our house, no doubt about it. We’ll never again live where they haven’t got the NBN.”

Critics accuse Kohler of talking his own book — Business Spectator is an online business, the argument goes — but for mine it rang true. Arguments about the impact of broadband on property prices are terribly subjective. But I’d hazard a guess that frustration with slow internet is the norm by now and with the NBN it’s almost the opposite of the usual NIMBY syndrome (perhaps we need a new acronym: BRIMBY — bring it to my back yard).


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 6:31pm
BBY telecommunications analyst Mark McDonnell says there is a definite industry consensus that using the HFC network is an incredibly efficient way to deliver fast broadband, albeit not as fast as FTTP. Still he wonders where the government is going with the NBN and the mix of technologies: “It’s in no man’s land. Literally, we’re back to the drawing board.”


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:23pm
the new CEO of the NBN has come in and been able to identify 5 key areas that have led the company to not perform properly.

alignment on goals, unclear or redundant accountability, suboptimal environment, poor decision making and peformance trakcing as well as poor process management.

that makes sense when you see the results.

you need to get the company structure operating correctly before you can build. get the internal foundations setup before you can develop and expand.

good to see good process at work and i only wish many business's out there did the same. 


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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:30pm
I am sure you could have dug up a few more vague meaningless terms to describe a company overseen by the worst government/s in the entire history of the universe

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Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

the new CEO of the NBN has come in and been able to identify 5 key areas that have led the company to not perform properly.

alignment on goals, unclear or redundant accountability, suboptimal environment, poor decision making and peformance trakcing as well as poor process management.

that makes sense when you see the results.

you need to get the company structure operating correctly before you can build. get the internal foundations setup before you can develop and expand.

good to see good process at work and i only wish many business's out there did the same. 

what a load of wallop   take the blinkers off,remove your self from your heroes emailing list   THE NBN IS A PIG since lnp got hold of it    broken word after word,blatant lying since day dot.  sadly won't be t6he last off it


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by mc41 mc41 wrote:

BBY telecommunications analyst Mark McDonnell says there is a definite industry consensus that using the HFC network is an incredibly efficient way to deliver fast broadband, albeit not as fast as FTTP. Still he wonders where the government is going with the NBN and the mix of technologies: “It’s in no man’s land. Literally, we’re back to the drawing board.


Posted By: mc41
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 9:02pm

I don't expect the government to change its mind on the NBN, but I do think it is fair enough to expect it to keep its word.

Today is the first anniversary of that famous press conference that Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull did with the life size hologram of Sonny Bill Williams.

That's the one where the Prime Minister said he was absolutely confident that 25 megs is going to be more than enough for the average household.

It's also the one where he promised that by 2016 everyone will have access to 25 megs. That promise hasn't lasted a year.

The government announced it was breaking it just before Christmas – the day after Holden announced it was pulling out of Australia.

This is a serious breach of faith. The people of Australia might not have liked their NBN plan, but they were told they would get it by 2016. They won the election and then broke their word. And they should wear the consequences of that at the next election.





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