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Climate Change - Global Warming..

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Topic: Climate Change - Global Warming..
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Subject: Climate Change - Global Warming..
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:02pm
I have never been able to understand one way or the other why this has been such a massive issue.

Is Global warming occurring...and what is the best evidence..?

Whenever I think of this topic I remind myself of when this planet was in it's infancy, cooling and spewing out billions of tons on carbon dioxide etc etc...

If we are seeing global warming I am unsure there is anything we could do at this point to negate its progress. If the earths population is nothing but a algal bloom coming into final phase, or bacterial cycle etc, then we would all be gone anyways, if all we are worried about is a weather cycle that was doing it's own thing anyway, was given a bit more energy via our carbon output to complete it's cycle faster, then it all seems to point to one thing really...Competition for control of new energies driven by fear campaigns and bogus science.







Replies:
Posted By: BROOKE
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:37pm
Biggest scam of the modern era.
Given the age of the earth and all things that have happened to it, including an ice age, the earth had to warm up anyway.
As much as it is possible the earth is warming, its equally possible it could start cooling into an ice age again.

Temperatures are the least of our problems.
We should clean up rivers, protect forests, species, etc.
Air quality is more of an issue, than the temperature of earth.


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:49pm
I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...




Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...

        So true Fiddles.
Those Ocean creatures have no sewerage infrastructure at all. Disgusting for them to swim around in there own pee.      We should have the Greens do something about it.


Posted By: songline
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 11:11pm
Yes the Earth has cooled and warmed before.... it has been through severe drought before... and there were also massive extinction events associated with the previous warming/cooling and drought cycles. Not many woolly mammoths around these days - want to join them?

It's also the time frame that the changes are taking place that's the problem. The previous changes occurred over millennia  - now we are talking about rapid changes over decades. Do we really want to go down that path if we can help it? The science is well substantiated, but it's the loonies who get all the press time.

Any coincidence that we're having bushfires in September?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 11:30pm
Songline.    They are having floods in China.
The previous seasons of wet have the fuel there in many Australian areas, for fire in any month.
Some warmer weather and a fool with a match and up she goes.
Pre Summer warning I expect.


Posted By: songline
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 11:35pm
On the back of the warmest 12 months ever recorded in Australia...

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/warm-winter-caps-nations-hottest-year-20130901-2syzt.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/warm-winter-caps-nations-hottest-year-20130901-2syzt.html


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:16am







Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...






Well they could certainly use a little less of the heat they are currently accruing.

Not sure of the point of this thread, it's all been done ad nauseam in the Carbon Tax thread. To be brief, you either accept a broad scientific consensus, or you don't.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

For a look at the actual science, including a rebuttal (linked right there on the home page) of dozens of common myths, all referenced, linked and annotated:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:03am
I look at the bigger picture

We are in a solar system along with 7 or 9(depending on whether Pluto and Charon are sateroids or small planets) 

There are planets closer to and others further away from the life source(the sun) in our system. 

Why do some have atmospheres and others don't that can sustain our type of life form? 

What conditions are unique to us to allow the proliferation of micro organisms that led to higher life forms, how long did it take, has it cycled before numerous times, where is it headed?

It got to this stage of fine balance of atmospheric condition without our interference. 

What will happen if we screw it up? 

If you focus in on smaller orders of weather patterns and composition of gases you are starting to look at trees rather than the forest.

The problem for us is, are we doing anything to alter the balance the universe spent Billions of years perfecting, to our detriment? Are we accelerating our own demise? Even on our own Planet we only live in conditions between -10 and 45 degrees We can't live outside of these

Scientists are studying conditions on Mars and the moon as we speak with rovers(Mars) and looking at conditions in our outer solar system with Voyager. They are trying to answer some of these questions and in the case of Mars try to determine if it was once like us as a  sustainer of life.
 
Until we know the answers to these sort of questions, we are doing ourselves and those that follow us a great dis-service by vandalizing our living conditions, narrowing the temperature range within which we can live. Apart from that it is plain dumb



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Posted By: Crash
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:57am

Global Warming Computer Models Collapse; Arctic Ice Sheets Rapidly Expand as Planet Plunges into Global Cooling


A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.

The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores.


http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/article-2415191-1BAEE1D0000005DC-503_640x366.jpg" rel="nofollow">MoS2 Template Master


The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.

Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

The disclosure comes 11 months after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts failed to predict.

In March, this newspaper further revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.

The pause – which has now been accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important, because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into ‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.

Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.




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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Crash Crash wrote:

<h2 ="post-title">Global Warming Computer Models Collapse; Arctic Ice Sheets Rapidly Expand as Planet Plunges into Global Cooling</h2>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>A chilly Arctic summer has left
nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the
same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The rebound from 2012’s record low
comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave
the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Instead, days before the annual
autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half
the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to
Russia’s northern shores.</span>

<p style="text-align: center;">
<span></span>

<p style="text-align: center;"> http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/article-2415191-1BAEE1D0000005DC-503_640x366.jpg" rel="nofollow">MoS2 Template Master


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The Northwest Passage from the
Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More
than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a
cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Some eminent scientists now believe
the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until
the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer
forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The disclosure comes 11 months
after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific
debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning
of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts
failed to predict.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>In March, this newspaper further
revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the
models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The pause – which has now been
accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important,
because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures
have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into
‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.</span>




Would that be David Rose from the The Mail on Sunday, Crash?

Try this:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/10/climate_change_sea_ice_global_cooling_and_other_nonsense.html


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:10pm
try inserting a link using this  Insert Hyperlink

makes it easier


Posted By: Crash
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:10pm
Scientists --- the smartest people on earth -- NOT



http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/article-2415191-1BAED5FF000005DC-408_638x431.jpg" rel="nofollow">article-2415191-1BAED5FF000005DC-408_638x431




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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:13pm
Are dramatic changes in the polar ice cap normal?

-------------


Posted By: Crash
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Are dramatic changes in the polar ice cap normal?



Don't think anyone could answer that


It wasn't long ago the world was flat LOL


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Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 12:23pm
It still is for some peopleLOL

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Posted By: Grinnersawinner
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 2:21pm
Just one quick pet hate on global warming. I hate when people blame natural disasters on global warming.
Read historical sources, dreamtime stories etc, natural disasters have happened all the time throughout history.
If we take evidence earth is warming, its still only by 0.1% (not actual figure). It's not enough to be the difference between a flood, drought, bushfire, tornado etc. Yet some people want to blame every natural disaster on climate change. I don't understand it tbh.


-------------
Still Grinning


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 2:44pm
I think I will take science over dreamtime stories thanks Grinners!!


Posted By: Grinnersawinner
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

I think I will take science over dreamtime stories thanks Grinners!!
Science also says natural disasters occured in past.

-------------
Still Grinning


Posted By: Mental
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 3:38pm
The same scientists spruiking global warming are the ones who 20 years ago told us there was a hole in the ozone layer and we'd all be fried by now.

Funnily enough you never hear about the hole in the ozone layer now they've got a new fairytale to peddle. They also told us that the Y2k bug would have planes falling out of the sky at the turn of the millennium. Did that happen?

These scientists must sit around p1ssing themselves laughing at the crap people will swallow.


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:51pm
Ahh Scientists.  They behave a little like the statistician.

What result would you like?  I can do either.

The funding and trend of the time dictates the result.

Screw the scientific method, its the line my pockets and publish me method.






Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:58pm
yep science has contributed nothing to the world you live in Confused


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:28pm
Almost certainly that is what I suggested Whale.

I clearly stated that I thought that Einstein was a fraud and Newton wasnt standing on the shoulders of giants but a big steaming pile of gelati.

If you choose to follow the thread you would have noticed it was pointed particularly at "climate change".

In this regard I do believe that the science you are referring to is deeply flawed by the funding and publishing model presently in place within our universities and public institutions.

Happy to discuss these things but dont put words into my mouth.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Lastycoon Lastycoon wrote:

Almost certainly that is what I suggested Whale.

I clearly stated that I thought that Einstein was a fraud and Newton wasnt standing on the shoulders of giants but a big steaming pile of gelati.

If you choose to follow the thread you would have noticed it was pointed particularly at "climate change".

In this regard I do believe that the science you are referring to is deeply flawed by the funding and publishing model presently in place within our universities and public institutions.

Happy to discuss these things but dont put words into my mouth.


I know


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:32pm
Climate change scientists have no agenda. The only ones with an agenda are those employed by major polluters to dispute what 97 percent of scientists believe.


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:35pm
Seriously,

That is the best you can do?  Wow, we are looking at a outstanding intellect here.

Three posts in the thread,  one to sook about the layout and two to flame.

Maybe you should take the advice, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool..............


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:35pm
Woops, pointed at Whale.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:39pm
So you accept the science you agree with and reject the science you disagree with.
Informed decision no doubt, please list your qualifations, or do you get your viewpoint from Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones LOL


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 5:51pm
Whale,

While I was asleep did they suddenly create a universally accepted model for mapping this planets climate?.  

Have they tested and proved it beyond doubt using the scientific method?.

Have all the studies which have shown contrary results to these "climate change" papers and all the results of smaller related studies which appeared to show anomolous results been discredited?.

Of course they haven't.

Yes I will choose to remain sceptical.  This is a huge mysterious orb which we happen to coexist on.  I am well aware of how difficult modelling can be on scales and complexities far smaller than it.

You are entitled to you opinion and I will not begrudge you that.  But in a context such as this the least you can do is to offer something.

By the way, nice touch with the Bolt-Jones reference.  Really showed the level your batting at and where you get your info.




Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 6:03pm
ROTFLMAO      Australia destroyed by Global warming , Climate change and a Labor Government .
Western Australia Recent flooding , The Ranges in deep Snow, Qld in drought and bushfires raging in NSW coastal to the Mountains.
A bit like the gay community .   Confused , don't know whether to give or take .       Sceptics dreamtime.


Posted By: Whale
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

ROTFLMAO      Australia destroyed by Global warming , Climate change and a Labor Government .
Western Australia Recent flooding , The Ranges in deep Snow, Qld in drought and bushfires raging in NSW coastal to the Mountains.
A bit like the gay community .   Confused , don't know whether to give or take .       Sceptics dreamtime.


hope there is someone to help you get up old timer  Smile


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 6:09pm
maxy if it is a scam, and King Tony thinks it is crap, why is he spending $2.9Billion of our money to stop it? What is he taking Direct Action against? Confused

-------------


Posted By: Lastycoon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 6:12pm
It is crazy this weather thing that just turned up out of the blue.

When I was a boy you knew what day it was by the temperature.  Summer solstice was 40 and winter was 10. We just used to calculate back and bang! that was the date (leap years got a bit tricky).  It rained every 8th day and on the 22nd of September it would hail.  

Hmm, maybe it was those pesky calendar people who caused all this "global warming".


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

ROTFLMAO      Australia destroyed by Global warming , Climate change and a Labor Government .
Western Australia Recent flooding , The Ranges in deep Snow, Qld in drought and bushfires raging in NSW coastal to the Mountains.
A bit like the gay community .   Confused , don't know whether to give or take .       Sceptics dreamtime.


Um, do some research Macca. It's these extremes of weather that are exactly what climate change scientists have predicted. Look at Sydney. Buckets down for several years of extremely heavy rainfall, and now 3 months of drought and high temps.
And the gay community comment. What a ridiculous and utterly irrelevant thing to say.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 7:04pm
Subastral.It as doing exactly the same in the 1930's as it is doing now.
We didn't have the technology to be on the scene when we had the worst drought in 1946 the shocking floods for some years to 1954 when half the country was underwater.    Windsor , Dubbo, Maitland Gilgandra Singleton etc [ where I was on flood relief } had submerged telegraph poles.     People lost their lives in earthquakes and were forgotten in a week.        Not a lot has changed.      They are ski riding near Canberra today.     Hobart 2 degrees .
Worry about importing Mad Religion and tribal Islanders, weapons of destruction, Germ warfare That will kill us long before a few . Hot, Wet, Cold Snowy days.
I was told in 1950 Tasmania would be under water by the year 2000
I witnessed people buying up all the candles in 1988 as the time had arrived for the world to plunge into darkness. Crazy stuff.
We have been there and it is a load of SHXT. Experts are divided and when they find out for sure I want to know who is the real God .   AND
Who will win the Melbourne Cup.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 8:30pm
Weather / Loss of life recorded.
Worst.   1899   cyclone Mahina well over 400 died
1929 Tasmania Flood 22 dead      1939 bushfires Vic 71 dead the accompanying heatwave over 400 died ...Floods 1952 to 54 devastating floods ,   Cyclones ada 1970 , Tracey 1974 and Brisbane floods 2000 houses submerged.
Has it become worse since 1899 or is it just better TV coverage.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Lastycoon Lastycoon wrote:

Whale,

While I was asleep did they suddenly create a universally accepted model for mapping this planets climate?.  

Have they tested and proved it beyond doubt using the scientific method?.

Have all the studies which have shown contrary results to these "climate change" papers and all the results of smaller related studies which appeared to show anomolous results been discredited?.

Of course they haven't.

Yes I will choose to remain sceptical.  This is a huge mysterious orb which we happen to coexist on.  I am well aware of how difficult modelling can be on scales and complexities far smaller than it.

You are entitled to you opinion and I will not begrudge you that.  But in a context such as this the least you can do is to offer something.

By the way, nice touch with the Bolt-Jones reference.  Really showed the level your batting at and where you get your info.




So let's be a little more specific. Rather than accuse an entire class of professionals of acting in bad faith, what precisely about the current consensus on climate change do you disagree with?


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 9:16pm

Just another example of the human race totally overrating its importance imho. When the Universe decides planet earth needs a make-over it will just happen...bloke running the show up there must look down on us & laugh his head off !

-------------
I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


Just another example of the human race totally overrating its importance imho. When the Universe decides planet earth needs a make-over it will just happen...bloke running the show up there must look down on us & laugh his head off !


We are talking about science here. Fiction, sorry, I mean religion, has no place in a scientific discussion.


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:41pm
One thing that always amuses me is that the whole point of this worry is to give our children and their children a good place to live in etc...

When did this become so important, what gens before us gave a hoot what condition the environment was in for us...?




Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

One thing that always amuses me is that the whole point of this worry is to give our children and their children a good place to live in etc...

When did this become so important, what gens before us gave a hoot what condition the environment was in for us...?

Good point.     In fact they bombed shxt out of all of us and built Gas Chambers, Atom Bombs , Nuclear weapons , gasses , Biological materials .       Aids and the Hendra virus.
All the weather did was cause a few mudslides at Thredbo, a few trains off the lines and some flash floods.
I've been around long enough to hear Granma tell us of the Bushranger days and a spear or two in the back door. We do witness sad events , courtesy of TV but I don't see any change in the weather.    . Do you people


Posted By: songline
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:52pm
maccamax should go talk to my aunt  - her proof that global warming doesn't exist is because it snowed in the Blue Mountains on Boxing Day in 1950something. I told her global warming wasn't something she'd need to worry about in her lifetime


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 12:56am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


Just another example of the human race totally overrating its importance imho. When the Universe decides planet earth needs a make-over it will just happen...bloke running the show up there must look down on us & laugh his head off !


We are talking about science here. Fiction, sorry, I mean religion, has no place in a scientific discussion.
Lets talk a bit of science Subby....planet Earth has been around 4.5 billion years...however lets limit it to the last 65 million years....latest scientific evidence shows that it is colder now than any other time during this period (we are talking 100,000yrs type time periods here). Now for the last 1.25 million years...we have had 13 ice ages each of approx. 90,000 yrs. each intertwined with the same number of interglacial warming periods of 10,000 years each...we are just coming to the end of one of these. And you blokes want to talk about variations year to year & a few early natural disasters...cobblers ! Think you'd be better off talking about religion Subby !

-------------
I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 1:08am
I've spent the last 6 years watching it rain it's freakin ass off here and can't wait for our own scientist elite AKA Tim Flannery to be right with his prediction of "our dams will never be full again". How many floods have we had since then?

At least the last 2 months has seen some respite.

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.



Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 1:22am
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

I've spent the last 6 years watching it rain it's freakin ass off here and can't wait for our own scientist elite AKA Tim Flannery to be right with his prediction of "our dams will never be full again". How many floods have we had since then?

At least the last 2 months has seen some respite.

<span style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;">I love a sunburnt country,</span><br style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;">A land of sweeping plains,</span><br style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;">Of ragged mountain ranges,</span><br style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; text-align: -webkit-center; : rgb245, 172, 92;">Of droughts and flooding rains.</span>

Yes Scamanda...don't want to panic anyone but Warragamba dropped to 93.6% as of yesterday morning...maybe time for another desal plant

-------------
I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 1:37am
And that's it isn't it one one...we humans have again over rated ourselves and want to tell who ever will listen the sky is falling...again.

it's pretty strange stuff really...


Posted By: Grinnersawinner
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 7:38am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

ROTFLMAO      Australia destroyed by Global warming , Climate change and a Labor Government .
Western Australia Recent flooding , The Ranges in deep Snow, Qld in drought and bushfires raging in NSW coastal to the Mountains.
A bit like the gay community .   Confused , don't know whether to give or take .       Sceptics dreamtime.


Um, do some research Macca. It's these extremes of weather that are exactly what climate change scientists have predicted. Look at Sydney. Buckets down for several years of extremely heavy rainfall, and now 3 months of drought and high temps.
And the gay community comment. What a ridiculous and utterly irrelevant thing to say.
but Subby, we had droughts and floods in Aust forever. And even though climate is warming it is warming at slow, slow rates, like 0.01%. Not actual figure but you get idea. Not enough to make difference.

-------------
Still Grinning


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 8:34am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


Just another example of the human race totally overrating its importance imho. When the Universe decides planet earth needs a make-over it will just happen...bloke running the show up there must look down on us & laugh his head off !


We are talking about science here. Fiction, sorry, I mean religion, has no place in a scientific discussion.
Lets talk a bit of science Subby....planet Earth has been around 4.5 billion years...however lets limit it to the last 65 million years....latest scientific evidence shows that it is colder now than any other time during this period (we are talking 100,000yrs type time periods here). Now for the last 1.25 million years...we have had 13 ice ages each of approx. 90,000 yrs. each intertwined with the same number of interglacial warming periods of 10,000 years each...we are just coming to the end of one of these. And you blokes want to talk about variations year to year & a few early natural disasters...cobblers ! Think you'd be better off talking about religion Subby !


Simplistic nonsense. Of course we know temperature has varied greatly over the millennia but there is always a reason, or a "forcing" for it. In the last 150 years the temperature has risen more than in the previous several thousand, and scientists are certain (well 95% certain-despite what others in here will have you believe, they tend to be by nature, a cautious bunch), that human emissions is the predominant forcing.

I suggest you take a harder look at the science, oneone. A smattering of facts mingled with your own home-spun wisdom won't cut it, unfortunately.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

And that's it isn't it one one...we humans have again over rated ourselves and want to tell who ever will listen the sky is falling...again.

it's pretty strange stuff really...




What a bizarre line of argument. I would have thought "over-rating" yourself would be to believe you can pump anything you like into the environment with impunity.

Even worse is the concept, seemingly and increasingly prevalent in society, that you don't need to the science to address incredibly complex problems, but that your own logic will suffice.

Now that is "over-rating" yourself to a breathtaking degree.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 9:57am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


Just another example of the human race totally overrating its importance imho. When the Universe decides planet earth needs a make-over it will just happen...bloke running the show up there must look down on us & laugh his head off !


We are talking about science here. Fiction, sorry, I mean religion, has no place in a scientific discussion.
Lets talk a bit of science Subby....planet Earth has been around 4.5 billion years...however lets limit it to the last 65 million years....latest scientific evidence shows that it is colder now than any other time during this period (we are talking 100,000yrs type time periods here). Now for the last 1.25 million years...we have had 13 ice ages each of approx. 90,000 yrs. each intertwined with the same number of interglacial warming periods of 10,000 years each...we are just coming to the end of one of these. And you blokes want to talk about variations year to year & a few early natural disasters...cobblers ! Think you'd be better off talking about religion Subby !


Simplistic nonsense. Of course we know temperature has varied greatly over the millennia but there is always a reason, or a "forcing" for it. In the last 150 years the temperature has risen more than in the previous several thousand, and scientists are certain (well 95% certain-despite what others in here will have you believe, they tend to be by nature, a cautious bunch), that human emissions is the predominant forcing.

I suggest you take a harder look at the science, oneone. A smattering of facts mingled with your own home-spun wisdom won't cut it, unfortunately.
C'mon Judge...if we were around during one of the past ice ages blokes like you would have had a hundred reasons how "WE THE HUMAN Race" were responsible for it. Get over this one mate & start getting behind the next big thing that is going to knock the planet out...sheesh ! And as for Subbys earlier comment that scientists have no vested interest...cobblers...of course its in their general interest to keep this line going...obvious I would have thought...most would have the conclusion written before collecting any data !

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I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 10:01am
Do scientists have vested interests, or is it the economists, lobbyists and their masters the politicians  interpretations of scientists work that is vested?

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Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 10:09am

Fair comment BD...all of the above use this topic ad nauseum to fit their agendas

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I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 12:03pm
Analyse a Scientist for me ...          An easy word to drop but worth nothing usually.      They don't agree on complex matters so your no better off.       Climate hasn't changed one bit , weather cycles have been the same for centuries.
A few desalination plants half built due to Scientist advice.


Posted By: VOYAGER
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 1:13pm
Again the masses are faked into a psuedo political issue.
 
This is like same sex marriage. Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution. If you want same sex couples recognised as married then talk to the pope or your rabbi or your mufti but please leave the politicians out of it.
 
Same thing here.
 
Global warming and climate change have been rolled into the extreme weather changes the planet is going through.
 
The frequency of droughts and the severity of those droughts especially in Australia is increasing, and anyone who does not think that is someone not worth debating the issue on.
 
There are more severe floods and bushfires in other countries around the world and there is also a more devaststing number of catastrophic natural events such as the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina /Sandy and earthquakes, than we have seen in human history.
 
These events are not just caused by global warming and climate change, but there are several issues which combine to make these evnets more devastating than they should be and the governments and scientists need to blame something which they can not control, mother nature.
 
Governments have the ability to lessen the effect of severe climate or weather conditions or those resulting from these extreme patterns but they, for some reason chose not to use this ability.
 
Climate change is real. I lived in Sydney from 1975 to 2010 and in the last 15 years of that time period you could feel the climate change from a fairly mild, temperate one to a similar one to Brisbane, becoming more tropical and with more infrequent rainfall, but with heavier rainfall when it did rain. It is more humid in Syndey these days than it used to be and I feel that this trend will continue for the next ten years until Melbourne sees this change.
 
Global Warming may be happening on a statistical level (so we may be expriencing temperature increases of say 1 to 2 degrees on average in all regions of the world) but that happens on Earth with every climate cycle.
 
The real question that needs to be asked on this issue is what we can do to limit the frequency and results of the extreme weather patterns we are experiencing?
 
I have no doubt that lowering the carbon emissions would help, that would help alot, but I do not think we need to forgo a certain standard of living just to accomplish this.
 
We have done the studies and found out that carbon emission beyond a certain level are harmful to society so why not just aim at lowering the levels to the allowed threshold and continue on with business.
 
If that means some mines will need to shut down for six months a year well thats what needs to be done. If it means we move to natural gas instead of petroleum for our vehicles then so be it and if it means we have to start using magnetic levitation technology for mass land based transportation sysmtems then lets do it.
 
If the mining inudstry only has supply for six months then the material they are mining becomes even more expensive as the supply is limited and the market is the same so they will not lose money and they can keep making their current profits.
 
There is always an answer for doing something. But politicians do not wish to do anything that will a. upset the voters or b. upset business.
 
So again we need to ask who is running the country?            


-------------
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 2:21pm
What utter rubbish.     Noting climate change in Sydney since 1975.     Many of us who were there long before 1975, haven't noted any change whatsoever.    Imagination has overcome some people.
Same old weather patterns everywhere.     Still flooding in Area's where they haven't put in Dams. The Brisbane floods , a repeat.
The worst disaster in Australia was Cyclone Mahina 4/3/1899.
          All those gasses back then aye.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Again the masses are faked into a psuedo political issue.
 

This is like same sex marriage. Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution. If you want same sex couples recognised as married then talk to the pope or your rabbi or your mufti but please leave the politicians out of it.

 

Same thing here.

 

Global warming and climate change have been rolled into the extreme weather changes the planet is going through.

 

The frequency of droughts and the severity of those droughts especially in Australia is increasing, and anyone who does not think that is someone not worth debating the issue on.

 

There are more severe floods and bushfires in other countries around the world and there is also a more devaststing number of catastrophic natural events such as the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina /Sandy and earthquakes, than we have seen in human history.

 

These events are not just caused by global warming and climate change, but there are several issues which combine to make these evnets more devastating than they should be and the governments and scientists need to blame something which they can not control, mother nature.

 

Governments have the ability to lessen the effect of severe climate or weather conditions or those resulting from these extreme patterns but they, for some reason chose not to use this ability.

 

Climate change is real. I lived in Sydney from 1975 to 2010 and in the last 15 years of that time period you could feel the climate change from a fairly mild, temperate one to a similar one to Brisbane, becoming more tropical and with more infrequent rainfall, but with heavier rainfall when it did rain. It is more humid in Syndey these days than it used to be and I feel that this trend will continue for the next ten years until Melbourne sees this change.

 

Global Warming may be happening on a statistical level (so we may be expriencing temperature increases of say 1 to 2 degrees on average in all regions of the world) but that happens on Earth with every climate cycle.

 

The real question that needs to be asked on this issue is what we can do to limit the frequency and results of the extreme weather patterns we are experiencing?

 

I have no doubt that lowering the carbon emissions would help, that would help alot, but I do not think we need to forgo a certain standard of living just to accomplish this.

 

We have done the studies and found out that carbon emission beyond a certain level are harmful to society so why not just aim at lowering the levels to the allowed threshold and continue on with business.

 

If that means some mines will need to shut down for six months a year well thats what needs to be done. If it means we move to natural gas instead of petroleum for our vehicles then so be it and if it means we have to start using magnetic levitation technology for mass land based transportation sysmtems then lets do it.

 

If the mining inudstry only has supply for six months then the material they are mining becomes even more expensive as the supply is limited and the market is the same so they will not lose money and they can keep making their current profits.

 

There is always an answer for doing something. But politicians do not wish to do anything that will a. upset the voters or b. upset business.

 

So again we need to ask who is running the country?            


I think you've raised some good points. Unfortunately this has become hopelessly politicised, and what is essentially a practical problem requiring a practical solution is being used as a wedge.

It wouldn't take much political courage or goodwill to come to a sensible arrangement (as we so nearly did), but regrettably those commodities are in rather short supply.


Posted By: oneonesit
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 12:51am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

What utter rubbish.     Noting climate change in Sydney since 1975.     Many of us who were there long before 1975, haven't noted any change whatsoever.    Imagination has overcome some people.
Same old weather patterns everywhere.     Still flooding in Area's where they haven't put in Dams. The Brisbane floods , a repeat.
The worst disaster in Australia was Cyclone Mahina 4/3/1899.
          All those gasses back then aye.
Absolutely Maxy...people have short memories...what about the The Fishers Ghost Bridge going under in 1962...locals still talk about it....cut off the short cut to the Good Intent Pub !

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I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 1:34am
Came over dull in Brisbane this afternoon.
Bluddy climate change .      I was trying to get a tan.


Posted By: Short_Half_Head
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 1:57am
Man affecting climate change is like a jockey influencing the result of a race..
You know it should be happening but overall your not sure the little cup cakes really have the carbon footprint.


Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 5:25am
the climate of the planet has always changed. is constantly changing. if you expect the weather to be the same now as it was 100 years ago then you will struggle to comprehend a lot. 

my issue with climate change has always been that it is based on statistical analysis from scientists that get paid in order to find a connection between the change in the worlds climate and something we do. they are rewarded if they are able to find a story to provide to the papers that says ''we are all going to die'' rather than those scientists that say ''everything is fine''. when ever you look at the major issues that spawn the hollywood movies about the end of the world it is always led by those that make money from it. same with Y2K and the belief in the mid 90's that we need to spend billions on looking for asteroids because jupiter got hit by some gigantic ones. 

and a lot of the data that they use is based on the worse case scenario. their models are based on a percentage of error and they are using that to the extreme case and replicating that through their models to get to the attention grabbing headline. often the percentage of error is a degree and that is the difference between a climate cooling and a climate warming. 

same goes for the UN. the UN is only rewarded if they can find massive problems with the world and i do believe that their attention to climate change is to work in a funding model that will provide them with the money in which for them to grow. that is the nature of power and at the moment they struggle to continually ask for funding. i have no dout that there are those in the UN, good people, that believe that they need a world wide emmissions trading scheme that they can oversea and collect and distribute money that will allow them the continous and growing funding that an organisation or government requires to consistently operate and influence people aroung the world on other issues that they believe in. 

and i do believe that people want to feel significant. a cause such as this can sweep people into action because they feel special abuot what they are doing for the future. they honestly feel good about the idea of doing something that will better the planet. i can understand that.

i belive that in order to provide for the future we have to provide them choice. and that is through education, wealth and control. i belive you do that through economic prosperity and the increases in education that it allows you to offer future generations.

i do not beleive you can do this through handicapping an economy. i belive you can do this by making an economy stronger and allowing it the opportunity to invest in a higher level of technology.

because technology is the key. our air is cleaner through improved car emmissions that were created because cars wanted to run more efficiently and people rewarded those car companies for doing so. you sell more cars that dont pump out smoke out the back. that has made up a large proportion of the improved cleaner air.

the water in our beaches is cleaner now than 40 years ago through improved technology for the treatment of sewerage and other products that were pumped into the sea. 

i belive countries like china and brazil should have a carbon tax though. if they want to hand their future generations to not have the cost of health through pollution then they need to do something quick. they are holding back the wealth of their nation through the reduction inthe quality of labour. i have always said that countries that have a pollution problem need to work on it asap and if they wait then they will suffer long term.  

the important part of the climate change question is what has changed. the idea that the weather is now tropical in sydney compared to 30 years ago is insignificant. nostalgia is a wonderful emotion and ths belief that the winters in sydney were all 20 degrees every day and the summers at 30 deagrees is incorrect.  the decade with the most number of major cyclones was the 70's. this was back when everynoe beleived we were heading to another ice age and that was the fear campaign that was run by scientists back then. 

what has really changed is the amount of damage done and the way in which we recover.  yes the value has increased as they will continue. but if you want to look at the number of human deaths associated to these in our country and other western countries then the numbers have drastically fallen. the most number of deaths from a heat wave or a cyclone occured in the 1800's when our populatin was much much smaller. about a fifth. we have been able to develop technology to overcome these events and that will continue to happen. if we contineu to build a strong economy that can support those that are affected and invest in technology that can protect and provide for those effected.



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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 9:55am
Go home Questions, you're drunk.


Posted By: Crash
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 9:59am
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Go home Questions, you're drunk.



LOL


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Posted By: questions
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Crash Crash wrote:


Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Go home Questions, you're drunk.



LOL


Sadly no. I only sleep 4 or 5 hours a night and fell asleep at 10am watching a boring movie. Woke up at 3 and figured I would get some work done.

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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson


Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

Originally posted by Crash Crash wrote:


Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Go home Questions, you're drunk.



LOL


Sadly no. I only sleep 4 or 5 hours a night and fell asleep at 10am watching a boring movie. Woke up at 3 and figured I would get some work done.

Now it all makes sense. You know what they say lack of sleep can do to a human.


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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 11:17am
What does make sense is there has been nothing to support global warming over the past 15 years. Static. Conveniently a few cold days and some good snow falls have crazies now on about climate change.
Are we heading to another ice age ?.     A few volcano's and earth quakes can be fit into the dressmakers regime so it all reads well.
We won't mention hurricanes and tornedoes because they have been cyclical and floods and bushfires have improved with more attention to burn off and dam building.
All becoming too much.   No mention of my bowel actions at 8AM every morning [ come hail or shine ].The huge problem is with these cooler mornings, I don't wake up until 9AM.        Bluddy climate change.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 11:19am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

What does make sense is there has been nothing to support global warming over the past 15 years. Static. Conveniently a few cold days and some good snow falls have crazies now on about climate change.
Are we heading to another ice age ?.     A few volcano's and earth quakes can be fit into the dressmakers regime so it all reads well.
We won't mention hurricanes and tornedoes because they have been cyclical and floods and bushfires have improved with more attention to burn off and dam building.
All becoming too much.   No mention of my bowel actions at 8AM every morning [ come hail or shine ].The huge problem is with these cooler mornings, I don't wake up until 9AM.        Bluddy climate change.

Don't worry maxie, PM Vlad Abbott is going to fix the non problem by throwing $3B at it 


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Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 11:36am
BD..     All the little birds and frogs have disappeared from an area I have known for 80 years.   That bluddy climate change has no barriers.
One day someone with a brain might think about the tens of thousands of domestic cats and dogs that have been neglected and put into the wild .    They love poultry and frogs legs.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 11:38am
Then you must be pleased that mr Abbott is throwing a whole truckload of our money at the 'problem' maxie

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Posted By: hatch
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 12:58pm
0.7 c degrees increase in more than 100 years ,   in the much predicted present period of global warming ,   an increase of 0.17c in the last 30 years ,in other words very close to Zilch ,no wonder many thousands of scientists no longer believe in global warming , but not the dills who don't do their homework.


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by hatch hatch wrote:

0.7 c degrees increase in more than 100 years ,   in the much predicted present period of global warming ,   an increase of 0.17c in the last 30 years ,in other words very close to Zilch ,no wonder many thousands of scientists no longer believe in global warming , but not the dills who don't do their homework.


Exactly Sir,     Should be enough to find you have to go back to 1899 to find Australia's worst weather related disaster.     A time when we had only a fraction of todays population.   By comparison in 1899 we lost approx.,    5 times more people than in the Vietnam war.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by hatch hatch wrote:

0.7 c degrees increase in more than 100 years ,   in the much predicted present period of global warming ,   an increase of 0.17c in the last 30 years ,in other words very close to Zilch ,no wonder many thousands of scientists no longer believe in global warming , but not the dills who don't do their homework.


So now you're citing scientists. Well I guess that's a step in the right direction. Of sorts.

Obviously a very convincing lot that 3% hatch. To you anyway.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 3:30pm
Hatch the issue isn't whether or not the temperature was on an upward trend this century 

The issue is whether it has increased by .7 degrees but it should have only been .65 degrees and humans are responsible for the difference through our behavior


-------------


Posted By: hatch
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 4:02pm
Browndog ,   the only thing we should be considering is that this remakably stable world temperature over hundreds of years is for any of us to be stupid enough to be worrying about.   Climate change has happened in the past , hot periods and cold periods,and nothing to do with anything humans have done


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by hatch hatch wrote:

Browndog ,   the only thing we should be considering is that this remakably stable world temperature over hundreds of years is for any of us to be stupid enough to be worrying about.   Climate change has happened in the past , hot periods and cold periods,and nothing to do with anything humans have done


Hatch. How many years have humans been polluting the atmosphere?


Posted By: BROOKE
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 5:58pm
Global Warming is the single biggest conspiracy theory of the past 50 years.


Posted By: hatch
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 6:21pm
I think you could be right there Brooke ,   people only have to get on the internet ,to see how many scientists believed and now dont ,older farmers who had seen the climate variations through the years ,never believed in Global warming ,it only had to be mentioned and they would laugh.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 6:27pm
Hatch, can you please explain to me how old farmers are qualified to explain scientific data?
The world has just experienced its 342nd consecutive warmer than average month. that's over 28 years of rise in temperatures. Do we just dismiss this Hatch? How else do you, and old farmers explain this?


Posted By: BROOKE
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 6:48pm
Dont bother Hatch. They are still stuck in the conspiracy theory.
I would rather let visual evidence prove them wrong.
There is currently greater risk of us going to an ice age, than to global warming meltdown.



A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.

The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores.

global cooling

The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.

Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

The disclosure comes 11 months after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts failed to predict.

In March, this newspaper further revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.

The pause – which has now been accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important, because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into ‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.

Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.

THERE WON'T BE ANY ICE AT ALL! HOW THE BBC PREDICTED CHAOS IN 2007

Only six years ago, the BBC reported that the Arctic would be ice-free in summer by 2013, citing a scientist in the US who claimed this was a ‘conservative’ forecast. Perhaps it was their confidence that led more than 20 yachts to try to sail the Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to  the Pacific this summer. As of last week, all these vessels were stuck in the ice, some at the eastern end of the passage in Prince Regent Inlet, others further west at Cape Bathurst.

Shipping experts said the only way these vessels were likely to be freed was by the icebreakers of the Canadian coastguard. According to the official Canadian government website, the Northwest Passage has remained ice-bound and impassable  all summer.

The BBC’s 2007 report quoted scientist  Professor Wieslaw Maslowski, who based his views on super-computer models and the fact that ‘we use a high-resolution regional model for the Arctic Ocean and sea ice’.

He was confident his results were ‘much more realistic’ than other projections, which ‘underestimate the amount of heat delivered to the sea ice’. Also quoted was Cambridge University expert

Professor Peter Wadhams. He backed Professor Maslowski, saying his model was ‘more efficient’ than others because it ‘takes account of processes that happen internally in the ice’.









Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:04pm
Just For you Brooke:


View a list of  http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/benedict-xvi/" rel="nofollow - Pope Benedict’s Environmental Legacy .
http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/benedict-xvi/" rel="nofollow - http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/benedict-xvi/

Pope Urges International Agreement on Climate Change

On Nov. 25, 2011, Pope Benedict XVI addressed delegates of 194 countries gathering in Durban, South Africa for the latest round of international climate change negotiations. He urged that they reach a strong global agreement to address the challenge of climate change: I hope that all members of the international community can agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrisome and complex phenomenon, keeping in mind the needs of the poorest populations and of future generations.  http://www.news.va/en/news/durban-climate-change-conference-underway" rel="nofollow - Click here  for the story from Vatican Radio

http://www.news.va/en/news/durban-climate-change-conference-underway" rel="nofollow - http://www.news.va/en/news/durban-climate-change-conference-underway




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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:12pm
That particular piece of nonsense from a right wing tabloid journalist has already been dealt with on this thread Brooke. Page 1. Try and keep up.

But don't be too discouraged. There's a lot more where that came from. Keep Googling.


Posted By: BROOKE
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by BROOKE BROOKE wrote:

Dont bother Hatch. They are still stuck in the conspiracy theory.
I would rather let visual evidence prove them wrong.
There is currently greater risk of us going to an ice age, than to global warming meltdown.



A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.

The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores.

global cooling

The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.

Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

The disclosure comes 11 months after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts failed to predict.

In March, this newspaper further revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.

The pause – which has now been accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important, because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into ‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.

Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.

THERE WON'T BE ANY ICE AT ALL! HOW THE BBC PREDICTED CHAOS IN 2007

Only six years ago, the BBC reported that the Arctic would be ice-free in summer by 2013, citing a scientist in the US who claimed this was a ‘conservative’ forecast. Perhaps it was their confidence that led more than 20 yachts to try to sail the Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to  the Pacific this summer. As of last week, all these vessels were stuck in the ice, some at the eastern end of the passage in Prince Regent Inlet, others further west at Cape Bathurst.

Shipping experts said the only way these vessels were likely to be freed was by the icebreakers of the Canadian coastguard. According to the official Canadian government website, the Northwest Passage has remained ice-bound and impassable  all summer.

The BBC’s 2007 report quoted scientist  Professor Wieslaw Maslowski, who based his views on super-computer models and the fact that ‘we use a high-resolution regional model for the Arctic Ocean and sea ice’.

He was confident his results were ‘much more realistic’ than other projections, which ‘underestimate the amount of heat delivered to the sea ice’. Also quoted was Cambridge University expert

Professor Peter Wadhams. He backed Professor Maslowski, saying his model was ‘more efficient’ than others because it ‘takes account of processes that happen internally in the ice’.









This above story is for all the people that believe in the conspiracy theory of global warming. :)
Oh no, the ice grew. Confused


Posted By: scamanda
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:23pm
If you live on the apex of a mountain you will pay a flood levy. Yet out chief scientist said "our dams will never be full again."
So many floods, so many scientists wrong. 


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

That particular piece of nonsense from a right wing tabloid journalist has already been dealt with on this thread Brooke. Page 1. Try and keep up.  But don't be too discouraged. There's a lot more where that came from. Keep Googling.
 
Spot on once again JH.  Thumbs Up


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It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: hatch
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Hatch, can you please explain to me how old farmers are qualified to explain scientific data?
The world has just experienced its 342nd consecutive warmer than average month. that's over 28 years of rise in temperatures. Do we just dismiss this Hatch? How else do you, and old farmers explain this?

           Think what you are saying ,   342 continual months of warming ,   for a total of 0.17c   What nonsense are you trying to put accross us here ,    keep your eye on the ball , the facts are there for all to see ,there is virtually no warming ,just keep looking at how much the worlds temperature has increased over a long period of time , and the last 28 years.


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:30pm
Hatch, you are aware that the world will continue once you and I are gone, aren't you?


Posted By: hatch
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:36pm
We had three mornings in a row this winter of -3c -4c -3 ,   just think what it would have been id it wasnt for 342 months of continual warming .


Posted By: subastral
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by hatch hatch wrote:

We had three mornings in a row this winter of -3c -4c -3 ,   just think what it would have been id it wasnt for 342 months of continual warming .



I give up. There is simply nothing to say to this.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:44pm
The Coalition is now in charge. Why is this still being discussed ?

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STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.



Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:46pm
Yeah but he also hates daylight saving because the extra hour of sunlight fades his curtains

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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

The Coalition is now in charge. Why is this still being discussed ?


They're "committed" to the same carbon reduction targets as Labor, Djebel. Just in a different way. Apparently.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 8:58pm
One massive waste of $$ on one hand & a huge revenue raiser for others. Seems to be the way of the world Disapprove. I'm with you hatch, fwiw Wink

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:11pm
So Gay3, can I ask for a rationale behind your thinking. Is it from weighing up the available evidence, or is it because, like a few others on here, you just "know" better?


Posted By: maccamax
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

So Gay3, can I ask for a rationale behind your thinking. Is it from weighing up the available evidence, or is it because, like a few others on here, you just "know" better?


I asked you for your evidence.???      How are you disadvantaged ?.
What are your fears,    especially when we have to go back 114 years to find the biggest weather related disaster In Australia.
   Hasn't been any changes in my lifetime . Still bluddy hot in Qld and Chit it gets cold in Thredbo.


Posted By: Browndog
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:22pm
maxie, you better get on the blower and tell General Abbott to cancel Operation Direct Action. 

Nothing going on hereWink


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Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:25pm
I posted links to the evidence on page one of this thread. It's actually quite comprehensive. And if the scientific consensus changes I'll happily change my mind.

But you, hatch and Gay3 can walk outside, lick your fingers and hold them in the air for the next decade or so and convince yourself all is AOK. Excuse me if I don't buy it.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:26pm
I think climate change is & has always been, ever evolving, with human beings flattering themselves in believing the biproducts of our existence has had any effect (environment yes, climate no).
Money should be spent on ways to cope with the extremes of weather the world is experiencing, rather than than playing these carbon games which seem to me to just shuffle money around rather than improving farming techniques, water holding, drainage, the list's endless.................Smile


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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

I think climate change is & has always been, ever evolving, with human beings flattering themselves in believing the biproducts of our existence has had any effect (environment yes, climate no).
Money should be spent on ways to cope with the extremes of weather the world is experiencing, rather than than playing these carbon games which seem to me to just shuffle money around rather than improving farming techniques, water holding, drainage, the list's endless.................Smile




And I ask again- is this from an assessment of the science or is this your own home-spun wisdom?


Posted By: Buckpasser
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 10:29pm
Climate change is indisputable. It has occurred from when the only thing alive on the planet were single cell organisms floating in water. That is not the point though, the point is how much of it is man made. Scientists and universities cannot always be trusted to offer independent advice that is free from personal taint. They require grants to survive, they need to show further research is required to maintain funding, they need high profile courses to attract students etc. To simple accept something because a scientist said so is naive. Equally computer modelling is flawed as it only extrapolates using the information fed in and uses the parameters the researcher dictates.

It is also human nature to look at things the way an individual wants. If you believe in mans affect on weather you will find a scientist who states what you think. If you hold the opposite view an expert will agree with your point of view. People will point to flooding and say climate change, others will say its been happening since Noah was a boy. Some will point to bush fires in September, others will say arsonists and poor urban planning should not be misconstrued as climate change.

Equally people love to quote sources without actually checking the facts. Richard Lindzen, professor of meteorology at MIT will tell you that JudgeHoldens facts about endless consecutive months of warming are false, that there has be no warming in the 21st century. So who do we believe, JudgeHolden or Richard Lindzen? Maybe both as JudgeHolden may be quoting figures specific to a region, Lindzen to the earth in general. Of course Vikings grew grapes in Greenland for several centuries while Europe went through a cooling period pre industrial revolution.


Posted By: JudgeHolden
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 10:45pm
Firstly, you might want to attribute quotes to people that belong to certain people. I never said anything about consecutive months of anything.

The first two sentences of your second paragraph is probably the most sense you've made here. But not in the way you think. You're cherry-picking the opinion of him why? The fact is, for every 3 Lindzens, there are 97 climate scientists who disagree with him.

And even Lindzen accepts the basic facts that CO2 causes warming and that temperatures rises as a result. Which puts him a fair way away from some of the flat-earthers in here.



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