Americain
Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=42008
Printed Date: 20 Apr 2024 at 12:49am
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Topic: Americain
Posted By: lulu
Subject: Americain
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:21pm
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I see he has been retired. Where do you think he will stand and for how much? I hope he stands in Oz somewhere Hopefully here in Vic. Smashing looking horse.
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Replies:
Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:28pm
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Arguably better in NZ/France. For better or worse won't attract much of a book in Oz imo. ------------- It's hard to soar with eagles... Cheers |
Posted By: MichaelM
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:35pm
| Victoria would be the logical place for him to stand if he goes to stud in Australia as they seem to have the best racing program for stayers of all the states. Wouldn't imagine he will stand for anymore than $5k-$6k. Fear he may end up back in France as a jumps stallion eventually, hope I'm wrong. |
Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:44pm
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Vividly remember him walking past me at Moonee Valley. Not knowing who he was I remarked what a gorgeous animal that was. On finding out who he was I backed him in the resultant Moonee Valley cup. He was later slaughtered in the Melbourne Cup. I would send him a mare or two, definately. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 9:00pm
Will shuttle between the U.S and either Vic /Nsw according to Ryan.
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lulu wrote:Posted By: AussieOi
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 9:22pm
Really hope thats true, i would definately send him a mare or two!
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Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 9:42pm
| I think he's a lovely stallion prospect, you won't be able to sell progeny initially but let's hope he's here long enough to get a reasonable chance |
Posted By: Spearmint
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 9:47pm
My guess would be at a place like Swettenham in Vic at a fee of about $12k. It will be tough going but he is by Dynaformer. a good looking type of thoroughbred and classy racehorse. I think he has something to offer and could possibly make it as a stallion ------------- "Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come" |
Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 10:07pm
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Interesting choice Spearmint. It might take a leap of faith for one of the leading Vic studs to have a crack with him. 12 months ago his stocks were no doubt higher, and his fee would have been too. Something about him though that I really do like.
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Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 11:48pm
LOL. i vividly remember him sauntering past me out in the forest gallops at Chantilly ! he looked such a stunner I ask, just tongue in cheek, "is that Americain "? and when they said YES, I couldnt believe my luck ! what a stunner ! ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: don
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 5:27am
| At his age it is difficult to see a commercial stud career or the ability to generate sufficient to cover shuttling costs.Nice horse though. |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 9:02am
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If he's a reasonable price I've already got him picked out for pom pom girl. She's a big powerful mare from the same female family, on types I should end up with an impressive specimen |
Posted By: Quezacotl
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 11:02am
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I really do hope he stays around in Australia, we need these sires down here weather they are commercially viable now or not, in time they will be very important, why has the industry decided that it has no patience anymore..it really pisses me off that we have lost the art of patience and being able to see further into the future than 6 months and return and on investment. I'd send a mare/s to Americain every year if he stayed around these parts, wish I had the coin to buy him outright as a stallion, I would buy him and stand him here permanently myself. ------------- SPRINTER SACRE - "SIMPLY THE BEST" |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 12:13pm
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Heard a whisper. Swettenham. Been discussing it for a while, I believe ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: SJW
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 5:57pm
| Good on them. If you build it they will come. He would attract a lot of very good mates even if primarily breed to race. 12k is about right, no more though. Are there any other affordable dynafirmer stallions in the country? |
Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2012 at 5:42pm
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The industry needs staying stallions. This guy would be perfect to kick it off. SYT will get some of the best mares. Green Moon to follow suit. May be a low service fee, over time, I can see him producing great classic and cups types. As mentioned on retro. With the influx of euro imports, race clubs should all re-install the major city 2 mile cups. |
Posted By: Spearmint
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 3:28pm
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Just read on RVL website that He will stand in the USA and shuttle to Australlia at a stud either in NSW or Victoria!!!
Funny thing is when you click on the link in the announcement about the profile of Americain,
it takes you to his bio and it says he is an 8 yo GELDING
  ------------- "Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come" |
Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 3:54pm
a gelding at stud. what a scam.
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Posted By: vontastic
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 10:05pm
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Melbourne Cup winner Americain (USA) will stands his first season at Calumet Farm in Kentucky in 2013, his fee set at $20,000. Calumet Farm purchased a half share in the son of Dynaformer from Australian owners Gerry and Val Ryan and Kevin and Colleen Bamford. No announcement on his Australian stud plans have been made. |
Posted By: Spearmint
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 12:30pm
Bingo!!! Just announced he will stand at Swettenham at a fee of $12.5k!!! Hope he gets his chance  ------------- "Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come" |
Posted By: Sequi
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 12:47pm
Well done Spearmint 
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Posted By: AussieOi
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 2:12pm
At that price i definately think he will get a great chance. Now to find a nice mare for him
 Who suits Dynaformer?? |
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 2:44pm
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A little expensive in the current climate don't y'all think ? ------------- Panspermia. |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 3:55pm
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They'll probably deal, makes him attractive if you are looking to breed that miler middle distance horse where all the prize money is. |
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 4:03pm
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Would of thought around 8-10k was more in line with his worth, but if doing deals, will probably get you that anyways ?? ------------- Panspermia. |
Posted By: Mental
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 4:03pm
| Swettanham? It was nice knowing ya americain |
Posted By: Sequi
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 4:15pm
| Im sure there will deals to be done. |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 4:18pm
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Bound to have an early bird special. ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: mouse
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 8:43pm
| lovely staying horse,a little bit dear for mine! could become another at talaq or jeune though! |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 11:17pm
| Don't think americain will have a one string bow as he is from mighty dynaformer who has a vey good record of producing 2yr olds and most of his runners were from 1400 to 1800 although his real elite were 2000 to 3200 and arazi produces both as well 12 k or there abouts isn't over the top IMO given what a lot of lesser performed stallions command more he will get a good book no probs there |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 11:20pm
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Racing Post Log in or Register Dynaformer (USA) 2012 STUD FEE: USD 150,000 Died as a 27-y-o br horse (11.1f) AEI 1.94 PEDIGREE: Roberto (USA) (11.2f) — Andover Way (USA) (His Majesty (USA) (f)) STANDING: Three Chimneys Farm, Kentucky (USA) SIRE COMMENT: G2 9-10f US winner, very good sire on turf/dirt, has top-class 2yos, progeny usually progress well STALLION DETAILS STUD RECORD SALES RECORD ProgenyProgeny StatisticsProgeny Race VideoNicksResultsEntries 2000 TO DATE WINNERS-RUNNERS WINS RUNS % 2ND 3RD £ PRIZE Worldwide G1 28-136 21% 35 286 12 35 33 9,480,230 Euro Stakes 32-79 41% 48 229 21 17 27 2,923,670 1988 TO DATE WINNERS-RUNNERS WINS RUNS % 2ND 3RD £ PRIZE Flat 95-297 32% 134 849 16 108 107 2,746,817 All-weather 21-106 20% 29 183 16 20 27 130,948 Jumps 46-123 37% 72 486 15 57 55 529,539 2yo 34-107 32% 44 238 18 28 33 596,503 Broodmare sires 42-128 33% 56 471 12 45 58 266,167 5-6f 13-36 36% 13 50 26 3 8 109,055 7-9f 73-268 27% 105 516 20 89 64 4,708,461 10-11f 46-200 23% 57 362 t16 46 53 1,244,850 12-13f 34-146 23% 38 277 14 30 38 944,112 14f+ 13-85 15% 19 158 12 15 17 633,757 Heavy 13 97 13 12 11 156,114 Soft 29 209 14 26 25 205,243 Gd-sft 32 249 13 31 29 1,017,157 Good 56 377 15 47 48 674,384 Gd-fm 71 365 19 45 44 1,166,544 Statistics are for GB and Ireland unless otherwise stated |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 11:25pm
| This may be easier to read http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=302069&popup=1 |
Posted By: Muppetmaster
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2013 at 11:45pm
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What sort of mare would you send to him..?? ------------- civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2013 at 12:02am
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Racing Post Log in or Register Dynaformer (USA) 2012 STUD FEE: USD 150,000 Died as a 27-y-o br horse (11.1f) AEI 1.94 PEDIGREE: Roberto (USA) (11.2f) — Andover Way (USA) (His Majesty (USA) (f)) STANDING: Three Chimneys Farm, Kentucky (USA) SIRE COMMENT: G2 9-10f US winner, very good sire on turf/dirt, has top-class 2yos, progeny usually progress well STALLION DETAILS STUD RECORD SALES RECORD ProgenyProgeny StatisticsProgeny Race VideoNicksResultsEntries Shows horses that make up Nick DAM'S SIRE WNRS - RNRS WINS - RUNS £ WIN PRIZE £ TOTAL PRIZE Diesis 7-8 88% 20-88 23% 692,166 968,224 Seeking The Gold 4-7 57% 7-34 21% 205,721 237,036 Storm Cat 4-7 57% 14-80 18% 317,736 366,295 Mr Prospector 4-5 80% 8-47 17% 51,401 77,969 Danzig 4-5 80% 6-58 10% 30,166 61,868 Trempolino 4-4 100% 8-54 15% 30,794 51,163 Gone West 3-4 75% 3-31 10% 8,742 15,336 Nureyev 3-3 100% 7-20 35% 338,236 454,064 Kingmambo 2-5 40% 3-30 10% 31,588 135,867 Theatrical 2-3 67% 2-12 17% 11,278 15,659 Sadler´s Wells 2-2 100% 6-36 17% 85,329 146,389 Rainbow Quest 2-2 100% 5-16 31% 102,482 157,472 Riverman 2-2 100% 6-36 17% 49,137 57,220 Night Shift 2-2 100% 4-22 18% 14,908 24,704 Boundary 1-2 50% 1-5 20% 2,286 4,380 Woodman 1-2 50% 2-28 7% 4,421 10,193 Seattle Slew 1-2 50% 7-29 24% 36,285 42,460 Rich Cream 1-2 50% 2-6 33% 44,465 47,015 Dixieland Band 1-2 50% 2-5 40% 7,771 8,310 Caerleon 1-2 50% 3-19 16% 25,259 30,386 Daylami 1-2 50% 2-17 12% 13,681 16,906 Polish Patriot 1-2 50% 3-9 33% 41,185 43,419 Danehill 1-2 50% 1-5 20% 3,886 3,886 Quiet American 1-1 100% 4-14 29% 29,502 51,003 Gold Case 1-1 100% 2-4 50% 18,133 20,281 Play On 1-1 100% 5-34 15% 16,331 23,167 Grand Slam 1-1 100% 2-15 13% 4,938 11,826 Desert Prince 1-1 100% 2-14 14% 8,422 21,995 Stage Door Johnny 1-1 100% 4-31 13% 13,475 21,913 Distinctive 1-1 100% 2-10 20% 15,856 228,424 Slew City Slew 1-1 100% 4-25 16% 18,735 33,941 Ogygian 1-1 100% 4-31 13% 14,661 20,174 Ajdal 1-1 100% 1-3 33% 5,655 8,423 Sunny´s Halo 1-1 100% 2-43 5% 7,060 10,889 Exclusive Era 1-1 100% 9-39 23% 118,458 142,490 Crafty Prospector 1-1 100% 3-18 17% 17,638 23,555 Marfa 1-1 100% 1-21 5% 3,903 9,426 Topsider 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,911 10,423 Sportin´ Life 1-1 100% 3-11 27% 7,012 7,409 Shirley Heights 1-1 100% 1-1 100% 3,624 3,624 Secretariat 1-1 100% 1-6 17% 3,562 5,192 Rusticaro 1-1 100% 7-40 18% 36,499 64,272 Private Account 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 4,888 7,061 Northfields 1-1 100% 1-36 3% 2,510 15,502 Niniski 1-1 100% 6-22 27% 21,491 25,065 Miswaki 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,331 10,644 L´Emigrant 1-1 100% 2-6 33% 17,711 21,216 Known Fact 1-1 100% 2-7 29% 7,561 12,288 Flying Paster 1-1 100% 4-13 31% 18,855 22,924 Fit To Fight 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 2,914 6,015 Dr Blum 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 5,242 10,473 Devil´s Bag 1-1 100% 1-6 17% 3,239 3,816 Darshaan 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,264 6,297 Cure The Blues 1-1 100% 1-15 7% 2,785 5,835 Be My Guest 1-1 100% 2-8 25% 32,918 43,511 Ballad Rock 1-1 100% 2-20 10% 9,675 12,302 Auction Ring 1-1 100% 2-22 9% 8,650 26,069 Alzao 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 3,494 3,494 Ocean Crest 1-1 100% 2-9 22% 12,075 15,913 Swain 1-1 100% 2-9 22% 6,309 10,489 Bahri 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 4,075 5,324 Out Of Place 1-1 100% 1-14 7% 3,393 10,459 Emperor Jones 1-1 100% 6-32 19% 34,616 66,081 Magic Ring 1-1 100% 1-9 11% 3,239 12,059 Mujadil 1-1 100% 1-1 100% 3,886 3,886 Generous 1-1 100% 1-13 8% 4,047 11,390 Linamix 1-1 100% 5-8 63% 619,471 645,563 Machiavellian 1-1 100% 1-12 8% 2,523 4,327 Zilzal 1-1 100% 2-6 33% 39,491 42,181 Rahy 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 4,598 7,132 Unfuwain 1-1 100% 2-12 17% 27,754 109,790 Deputy Minister 0-2 0% 0-6 0% - - Tough Critic 0-1 0% 0-2 0% - - King´s Best 0-1 0% 0-2 0% - 1,636 Nobloys 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - - A.P. Indy 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Zuppardo´s Prince 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - 241 Cozzene 0-1 0% 0-4 0% - - Blushing Groom 0-1 0% 0-11 0% - 3,578 The Minstrel 0-1 0% 0-4 0% - - Storm Bird 0-1 0% 0-3 0% - 477 Sham 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Lyphard´s Wish 0-1 0% 0-15 0% - 836 Herbager 0-1 0% 0-3 0% - 1,296 Forli 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - 2,591 Affirmed 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - - Loup Sauvage 0-1 0% 0-9 0% - 1,688 Alydeed 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Zafonic 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - - Rainbow Corner 0-1 0% 0-19 0% - 7,342 Shy Tom 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - 4,068 Septieme Ciel 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - 3,040 Polish Precedent 0-1 0% 0-7 0% - 103 In The Wings 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Mtoto 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - |
Posted By: Muppetmaster
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2013 at 12:17am
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AMERICA (IRE) [1997] 16yo ch f Arazi (USA) - Green Rosy (USA) (Green Dancer (USA)) ARAZI (USA) (1989) Blushing Groom - Danseur Fabuleux Wins Places Starts $PM 249 502 2687 $5,754,899 2012/13 8 25 116 $123,265 2011/12 33 60 317 $412,687 Total Stakes Winners Total Runners Stakes Winners to Runners (AUS & NZ only) All 7 93 7.5% 2yo 0 27 0.0% 3yo 3 111 2.7% 4yo 2 109 1.8% 5yo+ 2 95 2.1% Av. Win Distance Overall 1447 Stakes 3564 Non Stakes 1423 ------------- civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization |
Posted By: Glencoe
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2013 at 9:34pm
| Spearmint, i think i know a mare that may well suit Americain. What do you think? |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 11:31am
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Guys this is a stallion from the mighty Chelandry line. You know like High Chaparral, Heroic, Zeditave, Forty Niner, Dignitas, Never Say Die, Sky High, Swale, Shadeed, Magpie, Neil Gow (in Wilkes), Believe It etc. This line can throw a good sire and let's face it few stallions could be better looking or put together than this boy.
Just bring on the Juliet family and give it a go. Alcopop's dam or sisters. Any relations to So You Think out there wanting a suitable mate. Or even all those Bel Esprit mares with their Wilkes blood.
There is so much blood here just for the female line alone.
Good luck to Swettenham. May another one of our Melbourne Cup winners (after At Talaq and Jeune etc) come up trumps. This one could even go all the way and top the sires list.
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Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 11:52am
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Not doing my job very well. Another of the Juliet line saluted yesterday. Testarhythm's dam is another line of which might cross with Americain.
You have the Blushing Groom /Nijinsky blood in his dam, Roberto/Ribot in his sire.
The immediate female line produced a G1 winner by Double Jay. That brings Marscay blood into calcuations.
There was a nice Machiavellian out of the second dam so that suggests the blood of Mr Prospector might work well. Or the Danehill blood of Natalma. The Halo/Hail to Reason blood there has already been tried with the Roberto/Hail to Reason sireline of Dynaformer.
Seems to me he has most of todays lines in Australia covered. Just what the next generation sire needs.
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Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 1:05pm
Your first part was 100% spot on. Americain simply did not have the racing speed to be a good stallion. At Talaq and Jeune both proved they had top class racing speed. They where not just 2400m+ stayers. ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 1:08pm
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It looks more like Americain got his deeper stamina from his dams side to me, Dynaformer can put shorter course horse's down regularly can he not..? ------------- Panspermia. |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 1:59pm
I won't rush into agreeing with you at this early stage as his feet problems were well known but when they 1st surfaced is not & it's an accepted fact that sore horses are always looking for 'a bit more ground'  Again, many will tag him as needing a good cushion underfoot thereby tagging his progeny as wet trackers but I would too, in his case.------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: Sequi
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 2:24pm
Furious, if I could trouble you to ask: How might the Show A Heart mare, Hyacinths'N'Honey from an Hamas mare match Americain? |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 3:12pm
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Looks good on paper. The only thing is all the recent black type is around Redoute's and his progeny or Xaar from his family. Stralia, Mr Pesident, Comearoundsundown with Stratum, Xaar and Not a Single Doubt.
Maybe you don't have to look further but maybe look to see Vain in there also or some Mr Prospector.
Volts further back was a County (Vain) and Spend (Geiger Counter) and O'Connor (Ela-Mana_Mou).
Now you had Stralia's dam by Quest for Fame a Blushing Groom line sire but she was unraced (could of been injured so no saying the cross didn't work just no sure thing).
Likewise the ddam of Comearoundsundown was by More than Ready (Hail to Reason line sire) but she also was unraced.
A bit of Relko cross seems to work (as in Volts) and another had the cross to his dam's sire Relic (as in Bletchingly), Donatello 5f x 5m and Alycidon 5f x 4f.
In your pedigree you find Ribot 5m x 6m, Nasrullah 6m, 6m x 6m, Red God 5m x 5f, ND 5f, 6m x 6m, 5m and Nijinsky 5m x 5f.
The Roberto cross with Bletchingly has worked with Charge Forward being a prime example. So that is in your favour.
Nothing against the cross but maybe the mareline is leading you to different options.
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Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 3:44pm
He wasn't really trained to show speed over shorter trips, so I wouldn't hold that against him. He win over 1400 as a2yo on debut. Out here he was trained like a European stayer and was narrowly beaten first up in Australian cup. Manighar had little speed when trained like a European stayer either. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 4:15pm
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Also the Chelandry family is most know as milers. They can and do win over a distance and a short trip but milers are usually the most likely breed you will get.
We cant go one with no ying to the yang of speed either. We need a few top class stayer types in a pedigree every now again or we will end up with 800m squibs.
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Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 4:56pm
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furious, I don't have many mares that get over ground. What do you think of Westminster Place (Westminster ex Honoured Place) and Clio Soleil (In Prosequi ex Meldtina) Thanx ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 5:19pm
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Ok I haven't been asked but Jayzaa will hopefully excuse me for butting in. From a pure pedigree perspective believe Westminster Place would go just great with a son on Lonhro such as Denman (sibs Grosvenor and Concia 3 x 4 and close up crosses of Sir T, Relic, Vain for speed) and O'Lonhro (same sibs and similar crosses with a balance of speed and starch). ------------- It's hard to soar with eagles... Cheers |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 7:15pm
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That's alright Runfor the second mare would be the better of the two with her Meld, Whistler, Gold Bridge, Ribot, Ambiorix, Atilla blood. But the first mare you asked about is a better grade so probably your better bet. Don't get thinking only staying mares will do for him. As I tried to say above he comes from a miler family. Wilkes, Mr Prospector, Darshaan, Djeddah, Sing Sing, Seattle Slew, Lomond (Nothern Dancer), Baldric (therefore Without Fear) are some from the similar female line to Juliet. Also the 3-e family of Show a Heart has mixed in well when you get all three lines going and 1-w likes the mix also.
You have the 1-w in Alycidon and Atilla and Ambiorix in Clio Soleil. While in Hyacinths'n'Honey you have the 3-e blood of Show a Heart and Vice Regal. The 13-c or Bismark and the 1-w of My Babu and Agricola. Which is why she is still in front.
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Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 8:17pm
| And a prominent 2 yo producing dad |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 9:10pm
| Little birdie tells me he has over 50 mares booked in the USA already and a few good ones as well |
Posted By: Sequi
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 10:06pm
Thanks so much Furious. Appreciate. |
Posted By: Tangerine
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 10:15pm
| How much Roberto is a good/bad thing?? Would my mare have too much Roberto to go to Americain? Her names Giant Mystique |
Posted By: Spearmint
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 10:28pm
I think he would not be a bad match for LM. He is certainly a good type and was a quality racehorse. i'm still formulating ideas about the type of mares that would be suitable for Americain. ------------- "Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come" |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2013 at 1:36pm
| did i hear yesterday that the shares in this fellow were 30 K for life time share, didnt hear what you got 1 or 2 noms per ,does anyone know? |
Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 12:22am
| 1 per year. one extra in years 2/3 or 4 by ballot. |
Posted By: Muppetmaster
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 9:06am
How many shares are being offered, and what would the total ownership shares amount too..? ------------- civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization |
Posted By: lulu
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 9:41am
| 27 I believe. which would give them 810k straight up. These are breeding rights mind not ownership shares. They as in the current owners would still I daresay own him. |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 12:53pm
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Thnks , Not. Sure only heard the end of it on tvn the other day When i heard it i tbought pretty reasonable but only nbreeding rights that changes it a bit so that's 4 noms in 3 years so 8 k per Ok if he does Something and. Not if he doesn't but would imagine may get some decent mares from the original owners |
Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 11:47pm
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I think Americain has a good chance, better than Jeune and At Talaq. reason being is that both J and AT looked like the more Nasrullah the mares had in their pedigree the better and as a result I think when bred together the results were pretty good but there was a greater diversity of bloodlines in the mare population back then, now there is less diversity and there is a huge population that have Danzig in their pedigrees. with Americain, his pedigree suggests he would be good with mares with Traffic Judge (found in Redoute's Choice's pedigree), Admiral's Voyage (eg Danehill, Danzig), Khaled (eg Bianconi), The Minstrel, Halo and/or Machiavellian (eg Street Cry, More Than Ready). There is a huge mare population with all these bloodlines and owners that are looking for stallions that don't duplicate Danzig and hopefully don't produce horses that are only good in a 800-900m races, what are the chances that majority of the mares he gets will have the above bloodlines? If/When he does produce good ones I believe it will likely be similar to what happened to Street Cry - his progeny dropped in value in the sales ring until horses like whobegotyou and shocking came along then his service fee rose dramatically ------------- ZAMINGA |
Posted By: Tangerine
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 11:58pm
| What about my mare? Giant Mystique - would 3 x roberto be too much in a pedigree? |
Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 12:38am
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wouldn't be concerned with that Tangerine, the main question mark with that mating is actually the duplication of blushing groom - might increase the chances of foal having bad legs especially when you compare America's bloodlines to Quest for Fame's and the type of conformation his foals had, not that it stopped quest for fame's progeny from winning though ------------- ZAMINGA |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 8:49am
| Or his rise up the broodmare sires table |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 10:48am
| Interesting match to Americain for Giant Mystique. You are inbreeding to Le Fabuleux who is from the 13-c family (same line as Wilkes). Plus you have the 3-e line of Naskra (inbred to Blandford 5m x 5m). Naskra goes back to Musket's dam Brown Bess. Musket crossed well with the 13-c line of Juliet and a mix of 1-n has always gone down well with both. Then if you look at Blushing Groom he carries three strains of Blandford 5m x 4f, 5m. Blandford once again carries that 13-c blood through Canterbury Pilgrim and his sireline is that of John o'Gaunt who decends from Brown Bess. The 13-c seems to be like lightning to 1-n. They pick each other up. Well look at some of the Juliet lines in Australia. Check the pedigrees of the best and the majority have a mix of the above three lines. |
Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 11:03am
|
Furious, where is the best place to find the family numbers? ------------- Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance. DiEM25 for the world. |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 12:11pm
| Bloodhound and the Stud book. The Studbook only gives the female line. Bloodhound gives the entire pedigree when you get one. You still have to take some lines with a grain of salt but check for the sires of certain lines breeding true. |
Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 12:30pm
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Thanks Furious-looked at Bloodhound. Problem with Studbook a lot of the overseas horses don't have any family numbers so you have to find them from elsewhere. ------------- Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance. DiEM25 for the world. |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 1:50pm
| Pedigreequery.com if you subscribe |
Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 4:49pm
|
at pedigreequery you don't have to subscribe to get the numbers all you have to do is type in the name of the horse you want, right click on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd dam of that horse and click progeny and it will come up with a list of progeny and next to them on the right will be their family number ------------- ZAMINGA |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 5:18pm
| Just easier to get the lot in one pedigree from Bloodhound. If you select the 5 generation pedigrees they are for free. |
Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 8:27pm
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Hello from Germany, Regarding the "family numbers", the German Thoroughbred Studbook still listed these figures ,eben in teir newest issues. Maybe it's a bit surprising, Tiger Hill, who obviously stood 1 - 2 saisons in AUS traces back to Brown Bess, via the wellknown Baroness La Fleche/La Fleche, Manduro is from the same family, but through a very unknown branch, see my list below. Fam. 3-f Tiger Hill (C) by Danehill, Tigerin (F) by ProdomoÞ Fam. Cinna/UgandaÛ Polymelus, John O’Gaunt, Pont L’Eveque, Straitlace
The Filly (Appiani II) - Tigress Silver (St. Chad) - Templeogue (Prodomo) - Tilla (Birkhahn) - Trixi (Biribi) - Tonnelle (Bubbles) - Bow Window (Grand Parade) - Sunbow (Sunstar) - Baroness La Fleche (Ladas) - La Fleche (St. Simon) - Quiver (Toxophilite) - Mare by Young Melbourne (Young Melbourne) - Brown Bess (Camel) Fam. 3-f Manduro (C) by Monsun, Mandelbaum (C) by KönigsstuhlÛ Ginevra, Musket Mandellicht (Be My Guest) – Mandelauge (Elektrant) - Mandriale ( Best regards, Ticino |
Posted By: KK30
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 6:49pm
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Greetings, just wondering what everyones thoughts are on a Secret Savings mare for Americain? Dynaformer seems to nick well with Seeking the Gold but that's about the extent of my knowledge with pedigrees... |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 7:38pm
| Need a name KK30. Secret Savings is just one part of the parcel. |
Posted By: KK30
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 9:36pm
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Thanks Furious Mares name is Lubna |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 12:12am
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Well to be truthful I think the last two generations have moved away from what the dam line has worked with. This is the family of Canny Lad, Canny Lass multiple G1 winners. These are both by Bletchingly. Then you have Sepoy multiple G1's, and Camarilla G1 winner both by Elusive Quality - so the Mr Prospector line. But these two have Northern Dancer and his sire Nearctic 14-c. So I think Hyperion, Biscay, Bletchingly, Fairway, Nearctic or a mix there of. A bit like the mix of Danehill, Bletchingly and Lunchtime which worked so well. You even have so many members of your female line to breed back to. The young stallions Rothesay and Sepoy. All the many sons of Redoute's carry Canny Lad, Lunchtime, Danehill, Hyperion, Bletchingly - well the right mix. Americain would give you the Northern Dancer 5f x 5m and Mr Prospector to his female line of 1-n. But you are moving away from the blood which has given so many stakes winners from this line. |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 12:01pm
| Surely people with Dansili mares must be salivating at the prospect of mating with him , Dansili / Blushing Groom cross has been quite successful . |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 12:36pm
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120+ booked already ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: KK30
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 6:31pm
| Furious, thanks again for the feedback. She's in foal to Master of Design so I hope you're right about breeding to a son of redoute's! |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 6:57pm
| is that 120 plus booked to americain ?? |
Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 7:35pm
| Do you mean 120 dansili mares? |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 7:45pm
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120+ already booked to Americain ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 8:53pm
| Well that a bloody good start reckon some nice mares as well will find their way there i thought j heard that they have a max number that he will serve |
Posted By: jayzaa
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 9:00pm
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Yeah, I think he's nearly there ------------- www.keffelstein.com gotta live the dream |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 8:33pm
| The latest on swettenhams april newsletter is he is nearly full book sign to go up and the demand for host has been overwhelming as well |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2013 at 10:02pm
| Did anyone go to the stallion parade be interested on how he looked as he wouldn't of let down yet , . Also how host looked |
Posted By: G Kay
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2013 at 10:06pm
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Apparently he's not close to being booked out - only served 70 odd in America as well ------------- I hate being proven wrong but I am ok with being "enlightened" every now and then |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2013 at 10:08pm
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I saw a pic of each on FB, probably Kristen Manning so perhaps google her & they might come up. Americain looked to me as he did when racing but Host..............built like a massive bloody tank
------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2013 at 10:32pm
| The first time I saw Hussonet I got the same impression. Muscles on muscles. |
Posted By: Fiddlesticks
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2013 at 2:33am
And people say no one wants to breed plodders.... wonderful effort to have a full book imo.------------- Panspermia. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2013 at 12:11pm
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i saw Americain at Calumet in May but he hadnt let down much at that time. I do have pics but dont know how to post, so PM me if interested. I would be interested to see the difference between now and back then , too, if anyone went last weekend ? ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 12:08am
| 150 mares for americain that's a good start. But I think they priced him right just reachable for the bred to race and also cheap for the commercial players. Good job. Now the wait and see |
Posted By: AussieOi
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 12:10am
| I think he will do well, the Dynaformer adds a bit different to the pedigree for the mares out here. Still umming and ahhing about sending one to him. Really want to, but already possibly paying out quite a bit on other service fees. |
Posted By: G Kay
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 1:01am
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That's funny cos when I booked they didn't seem overly confident of him having a full book when usually they would come across the opposite to get you to sign quickly. I reckon he will be very commercial, he's a bit like Black Caviar in that a lot of non racing people know who he is. His foals would be an absolute breeze to syndicate ------------- I hate being proven wrong but I am ok with being "enlightened" every now and then |
Posted By: Secretariat
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 1:24am
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Struggling to find much love for this horse's chances. Very stout and more in the vein of Tawriffic and Kingston Rule rather than successful sires like Jeune. Didn't win a Group race until 4, most performances at 3000m+....he is arguably too stout even for NZ. Probably should be on the Irish National Hunt roster |
Posted By: v and m
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 9:49am
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I don't know about that I think he would suit mares with danehill in them and there are plenty of those, should inject some stamina into a very much speed type population ------------- ZAMINGA |
Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 11:16am
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His damsire was a very fast horse but a relative failure at stud. Secretariat has a 90% chance of being correct, I hope he isn't though. |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 6:13pm
| Two words. Dynaformer. & Arazi. That to me says 2 yo sprinter miler. So I would say americain. Is a bit out the box. So there is a high percentage that he could produce sprinter milers But he did won at 1400 as a two ye old |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 9:20pm
|
He does belong to the same family as High Chaparral. They both decend from Chelandry's daughter Skyscaper - same as the Australian speed influence Zeditave and that unfortunate mare we were trying to find a home for in another thread. High Chaparral was by Sadler's Wells who has pleanty of sons siring National Hunt horses but it is still desired blood. High Chaparral and Americain both had a 1400m win as a two year old. Of course Zeditave beats them both hands down as a two year sprinter. This is also the Australian branch line of Melito which argues well for all the Redoute's and Danehill blood which is out there. There is alot against any stallion making it at stud and a stayer more than most but there is speed in this family. Most are milers so that background is also there. |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 10:46pm
| Well said furious goes to show there might be hope yet for him as most I speak to are all in the mind set that he will and can only produce stayers , I actually love the dynaformer side a fantastic stallion IMO in the states and produced every possible distance at top level |
Posted By: Secretariat
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 12:37am
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Ultimately none of us know and true most fail but history suggests this horse has little chance. Comparing him to Sadler's Wells is folly as Sadler's Wells was a grades better racehorse as both a 2 and 3yo. Comparing him to Jeune and At Talaq is folly as both of them were fast stayers and from memory both won group 1's in Australia over 1400 metres. He can only be compared like for like with horses like Tawriffic, Kingston Rule and Natski. They were all genuine stayers that went to stud and did very little. He is going to get mainly sprinting mares here so what will he produce?? Horses too slow to sprint and with not enough stamina to stay. If he can't get early horses his chances of staying commercial are negligible, unless of course he is another Zabeel (who mind due was a miler as a racehorse) Anyway I'm probably wrong and as an outcross stallion he would be a very welcome success story if it was possible. Good luck to those that breed to him. |
Posted By: maxamill
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 1:10am
| Sec Be curious to see what history tell us that . To compare Jeune and co cant see that. Although i love the jeunes was Jeune dam and sire known as a sprinting family and known as 2 yo producers !! Americans however are |