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Best in Show, where are they ?

Printed From: Thoroughbred Village
Category: Horse Breeding - Public Forums
Forum Name: Broodmares
Forum Description: Mating advice and analysis
URL: http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=28587
Printed Date: 22 Oct 2019 at 4:50pm
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Topic: Best in Show, where are they ?
Posted By: progeny test
Subject: Best in Show, where are they ?
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 9:36pm
Are there any new good horses coming through from the "Best in Show" dam line ?
Thought Mutamayez (Dancing Show) might make it but now not likely.
Echoes of Heaven running tomorrow, not sure
There's been a drought since Manhattan Rain

I know that Pathfork won a Gr1 a few days ago off Minnie Hauk line and
Chinchon a Gr1 off Sex Appeal line

Any prospects ?



Replies:
Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 9:57pm
Intertidal (Snitzel / Miss Rainmaker) - beaut first-up run on a heavy track (1400m) and ready to  improve and contest in richer races!

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Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 6:58pm
We know how good the stallions are in the "family" 8f , eg domesday.

What about the girls in the female family, other than Pathfork in Europe, any more coming through ?


Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Rosscoe Rosscoe wrote:

Intertidal (Snitzel / Miss Rainmaker) - beaut first-up run on a heavy track (1400m) and ready to  improve and contest in richer races!


Canterbury R2 No1 (24/09/10) - tonight >>>>> get on!!


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Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 2:07am
Sailorman goes around in about 13 minutes by Dubawi from the family of Best In Show (5th dam)

http://www.risaform.com.au/Pedigree/showreport.aspx?reffno=8066973

Looks a fair handicapper.


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 2:25am
Thankfully you are all asleep and you missed that 25/1 flop.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 3:58pm
LOL LOL

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Nostradamus II
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 5:06am
Caleta won his maiden at Taupo yesterday over 1800m. By Duelled out of Cuizmala by Masterclass, he carries Sir Ivor 6x4x4 and Turn-To 8x6x6x6; Duelled is by Redoute's Choice whose granddam is Dancing Show (Nijinsky II - Show Lady) and Masterclass is by Nijinsky II's 3/4 brother The Minstrel out of Monroe, a full sister to Show Lady. Therefore linebreeding to full sisters through closely related Dancing Show & Masterclass with reinforcement of the sister's sire/grandsire. Wink

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https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/" rel="nofollow - https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 10:41am
It'll be interesting to see if he can go on with the job Smile

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 11:58am
Rekindled interest is 6x5 stolen hour, dam of best in show.


Posted By: sadlers wells
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 12:38pm
Have shares in a 2yo by a son of redoutes and out of a masterclass mare


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:39pm
A first starter in France tonight Race 3 no.9 Errant Flame - http://%20www.risaform.com.au/Pedigree/showreport.aspx?reffno=8346011 - http://www.risaform.com.au/Pedigree/showreport.aspx?reffno=8346011

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:41pm
Bugger it seems that/those links don't work.  Embarrassed

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: early4lunch
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 10:16pm
gathering?


Posted By: Ticino
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:42pm
Hallo,
here I Germany stands Saddex (Sadlers Wells - Remote Romance by Irish River) from the "Minnie Hawk" branch. He was bred by the Niarchos Family and won several Group Races in Germany and Italy.
 
He went to stud in 2008 and his oldest progeny are yearlings.
 
Regards, Ticino


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 5:59pm
Gathering.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Seagull
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 6:38am
Look at THEWAYYOUARE @ Windsor Park Stud in Cambridge NZ....... could be yet another case of "We make the stallion, You Flog it Back" shuttle arrangement /  partnership between Windsor Park & Coolmore................ this son of Kingmambo has a very good pedigree buildup and of course has Best In Show in his damline...........


Posted By: Flight
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 12:12pm
I happened to catch Wyong trained 3yo Sincero win at Newcastle last start and he struck me as a very nice horse.  He was more than a class above the rest of the field and went straight into the mental black book.
 
He is going around at Kensington today but carries an extra 2.5kg (60kg) plus is up 200m in distance so it will be interesting to see how he handles the imposts.
 
He is by Umatilla out of a mare who tails back to Best In Show's full sister, Reckless Driver.
 
 


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 2:19pm
Yes Flight,

I bred and sold Sincero.

His mother's grandam is Reckless Driver, BIS's full sister and by of course Umatilla. 4x4 to the full sisters on the dam lines.

I have a positive for his mother to Spinning World.

Fingers and toes are crossed.

He's also running against "Our Freedom" from Salameh.The Dancing Show female family.


Posted By: Flight
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 3:39pm
Very impressive win.
 
Well done progeny test.  Sincero looks to be the real deal and I do like your line of thinking regarding the breeding.
 
 


Posted By: orpen
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 3:54pm
Excellent. Nice win. Good stuff, progeny test! 


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 3:56pm
You both beat me to it!! Well done pg but only 8k at the Classic? Geez, who'd breed these days? Cry However, at least having the mare he'll hopefully keep increasing her value Smile

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 4:40pm
I feel like the bloke who sold Takeover Target.

He got another class record at Randwick today

I'll go pat his mother, then I have to get back on the front end loader, repairing my levee's.

lost 50 acres ( underwater) already today!!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 4:52pm
They just won big in Cessnock. 

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

They just won big in Cessnock. 


WEJDAAN ??


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 8:42pm
DUBAWI Thumbs Up

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Yes Flight,

I bred and sold Sincero.

His mother's grandam is Reckless Driver, BIS's full sister and by of course Umatilla. 4x4 to the full sisters on the dam lines.

I have a positive for his mother to Spinning World.

Fingers and toes are crossed.

He's also running against "Our Freedom" from Salameh.The Dancing Show female family.


WHOW!!!!!


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 12:26pm
Week done pt :)


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 12:52pm
His 6th Dam "Late Date" was 1935 USA Handicap Horse of Year

I have always loved Umatilla, how far could he have gone with the best of mares.

I'm rapt


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 1:12pm
I see a few of the descendants of Love Lost have visited members of the Best In Show clan.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 9:43am
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

His 6th Dam "Late Date" was 1935 USA Handicap Horse of Year

I have always loved Umatilla, how far could he have gone with the best of mares.

I'm rapt
Agree.  Very under rated stallion. 


Posted By: Daraabah
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 11:03am
Huge Offers For Boom Youngster Sincero
Offers to buy exciting 3YO gelding Sincero (Umatilla-Yours As Always, by Prego) have "reached 7 figures" reported The Daily Telegraph. Sincero (an $8,000 yearling at the 2009 http://www.inglis.com.au/ - Inglis Classic Sale in Sydney) notched his 3rd successive win with victory over 1400m at Randwick last Saturday, taking his record to 5 wins & a runner-up from 8 starts. (Dec 21)



Posted By: reng
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 6:35pm
interesting story on breednet this morning about him.

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The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 1:41pm
There is a lot of incorrect information being written.



Reckless Driver is a stakes place getter who ran 38 times
Tytola (By Last Tycoon)on Yours as Always Pedigree is a Gr 1 winner in South Africa (bis inbred)
Yours as always is a half to 2 stakes placegetters, and 1. Jenufa by Last Tycoon) is also inbred to Best in Show.

Yours as always was raced by Goree Stud and ran 5 times and was unplaced once 3 3rds and 2nd

8 progeny to race 6 winners

As an example today in "stallions" excerpt:

One you will all recognise as the famous overachieving blue hen, Best In Show who is the ancestress within four generations of over 100SWs worldwide, almost a third of them Gr1 winners, including such luminaries as Redoute’s Choice, Al Maher, Hurricane Sky and Umatilla in this part of the world alone.

The other is the less well known, but arguably more beautifully named Reckless Driver ( Traffic Judge – Stolen Hour ) who has to date been responsible for a much more modest family. Reckless Driver was unraced, her daughter Catherine Linton was unraced, her daughter Love Lost was unplaced, her daughter Yours As Always, the dam of Sincero, managed a major advance by being Sydney metro placed. The stage is set for a quantum leap forward with the appearance of Sincero who seems set to become the best horse, the only Gr1 winner from this branch of the family.

Wrong wrong wrong


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 1:55pm
Daughter Best in Show 78 s/winners

Mother Stolen Hour 104 s/winners 5th best damline in northern hemisphere

Grandmother Late Date 110 s/winners


but it would be via her two daughters Reckless Driver and Best in Show that she would push Torpenhow’s family into the international regard it maintains today.

Reckless Driver, by Traffic Judge, is currently the number two horse from this last named pair…though she does have several daughters and grand-daughters that could cause a shift in her position. She ran third in the Mermaid Stakes, and was considered a reliable performer on the track. Mildly prolific as a broodmare, she was the ancestress of $200,000 + earner La Bonita, Cranwood Special and Cloverleaf Handicap winner Greenbriar, Schuylkill, Barn Swallow, Laughing Gull, and Bourbonettes Stakes winner Pretty Sham…and the exceptional Aussie racehorse Tolanda…winner of the VATC Mannerism, VRC Devon Park Stud, VRC Hardy Bros Prelude, VRC Let’s Elope, and VATC Summoned Stakes.
A full sister to Reckless Driver, Best in Show has demonstrated the fact that she is the prime mover in this family’s current successes. A winner at two and three, her major trackside victory came in the Comely Stakes…but that would pale in comparison to her record as one of America’s great “Blue Hen” broodmares and the title of Broodmare of the Year in 1982. The dam of 17 foals…her offspring have journeyed far and wide…producing champions in as far flung places as Ireland and Japan. The best of her produce have shown themselves to be:


Posted By: reng
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 6:32pm
Presumably 'stallions' who get their data from bloodhound keep broodmares as unraced when they haven't researched the pedigree.  This happens occasionally in the Arion database too - most particularly for very old mares who don't get onto catalogue pages anymore.  Although stakes horses should be right all the time.

Arion has Reckless Driver:

Race Record:

9 wins, 3d Atlantic City Mermaid S., Gr.3.

 

Produce Record: Dam of ten foals, eight to race, five winners.

1968 c. Fast Driver, by Sadair. 5 wins in U.S.A.

1969 c. GREENBRIAR, by Nashua. 12 wins, Thistledown Cranwood H., L, Gates Mills H., L, Wade Park H., L, Cloverleaf H., L, 3d Thistledown Springtime H., L, Lake Erie H., L, River Downs Mill Creek H., L.

1971 f. Reckless Reign, by Nashua. 3 wins in U.S.A. Dam of-

Adorable Dori (Dance Bid). 2 wins at 2, 3d Woodbine Natalma S., Can-2.

Coriland. 2 wins-1 at 2-at 6f in U.S.A. Dam of-

Queen Quillo. 7 wins from 1000m to 1900m in Aust.

Darby Prospect. Unraced. Dam of-

Bossy Michel. 5 wins in U.S.A.

Gala Prospectress. Winner in U.S.A.

Pulsate. 7 wins from 6f to 1m in U.S.A. Sire.

Thunder and Reign. 3 wins at 6f in U.S.A.

Reckless Star. Winner at 2 in U.S.A. Dam of-

Reckless Blue. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Reckless Baba. 6 wins in U.S.A.

Petillo. Winner in U.S.A. Sire.

Telephone Belle. Winner in U.S.A.

Irish Wrecker. Unraced. Dam of-

Irish Giboulee. 4 wins-1 at 2- in U.S.A.

Reckless Winds. 11 wins in U.S.A.

Lead Tongs. Winner in U.S.A.

1972 f. Reckless Date, by Nashua. 2 wins in U.S.A. Dam of-

GREATCAESAR'SGHOST (Collier). 3 wins-2 at 2, Ellis Inaugural S., L, 2d Ellis Lieutenant Governor of Kentucky S., L, Oaklawn Dixie Belle S., L, 3d Oaklawn Martha Washington S., L.

Proven Date. 2 wins at 1½m, 16½f in Ire.

Spigot Shaft. 5 wins from 7f to 8¼f in GB.

Tigershark. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Reckless Angel. 3 wins in U.S.A.

Jeffrey Lee. Winner in U.S.A.

1973 c. Anthony L., by Advocator. Raced once.

1975 f. Catherine Linton, by High Echelon. Unraced. Dam of-

ZAR BITTER (Artaius). 13 wins in GB and Italy, Milan Premio UNPCPS, L, 3d Milan Premio Boschetti, L.

Imposing. 3 wins at 1¼m, 11f in Ire. and Sweden, Curragh Autumn H., Phoenix Park Pedens International H.

The Lionheart. 2 wins at 1m, Goodwood Paul Masson H.

Perplex - Lord Sussex (Mal.). 3 wins at 1400m, 1600m in GB and Mal.

For Sure for Sure. 18 wins-1 at 2-at 1m in GB and Italy.

Try My Linton. 7 wins-1 at 2- in GB and Italy.

Love Lost. Unplaced. Dam of-

Jenufa (Last Tycoon). 4 wins-1 at 2, 3d Philadelphia Wintergreen S., L, Goodwood BBC Auction Graduation S.

1977 f. Pretty Driver, by Lt Stevens. Placed at 2 in U.S.A. Dam of-

PRETTY SHAM (Sham). 6 wins-4 at 2, Aqueduct Barn Swallow S., L, Meadowlands Laughing Gull S., L, Philadelphia Schuylkill S., L, Latonia Bourbonette S., L.

COLONEL HILL (Temperence Hill). 9 wins-1 at 2, US$234,120, Laurel Devil's Bag S., L, Dancing Count S., L, 2d Laurel Private Terms S., L, Maryland Juvenile Championship S., L.

William Bray Sr.. 3 wins in U.S.A.

Pretty Doon. 3 wins-1 at 2- in U.S.A.

Maganda. Winner at 6f in U.S.A. Dam of-

Madcapade. Winner at 2 in U.S.A.

Pretty Flame. Winner at 6½f in U.S.A.

1978 f. Reckless Knight, by True Knight. Unplaced. Dam of-

Sir Gossip. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Mr. Lee Mr. Lee. 2 wins in U.S.A.

I Recken So. Winner in U.S.A.

Reckless Woman. Raced twice. Dam of-

Reckless Mema. Winner in U.S.A.

1980 c. Full In, by Full Out. 3 wins in U.S.A.

1982 f. Dareing Driver, by Sadair. Unraced. Dam of-

Viva St Paul's. 6 wins to 1200m in HK.




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The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 7:25am
Another SW by Redoute's from a Umatilla mare yesterday in Tranquility.  That is a very close cross 3 x 3 to Dancing Show.


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 10:41pm
Reng,

I have her sale catalogue page in front of me Inglis Lot 95

Catherine Linton , unraced dam of:

"2 Stakeswinners"

ZAR BITTER Milan Premio UNPCPS Stakes listed, 3rd Boschetti stakes Listed

AND

"PERPLEX" Stakes winner of "Malaysian Ulu Kinta Stakes

Straight off the sale page. Is Inglis right or wrong??

On "Reckless Driver" 9 wins 3rd Atlantic city Mermaid stakes
TOLANDA 12 wins 2 x gr 3 races in Aus and dam of
TYTOLA ( by Last Tycoon)6 wins Greyville Premiers Stakes "Gr 1"

Love Lost Unplaced

Producer of 2 stakes placegetters
Its cryin time (opera prince)
Jenufa ( Last Tycoon)

I'm not the first one to press the button on line breeding to "Stolen Hour" in this Mitochondrial Damline



Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 10:59pm
Reng , Your list is incomplete too.

"Moltas" leading 3yr colt in Sweden GONE SWEDEN
Yours as always brother "Its Cryin Time" 3rd Dayana Stakes listed GONE AUSTRALIA

You've only included U.S records

International pedigree's are losing their produce "down the cracks"


Posted By: reng
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2010 at 3:55pm
Like I said - unless they are in recent catalogues they are likely to be missing information.  Being that far back, they tend to drop off the page and don't get researched.  It's a shame, but you can always email the reference through to Arion and Bloodhound and they will (probably) update their databases.

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The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 3:32pm
Another smashed class record @ 1600m at Randwick today

His Blueblood family will be happy to call him "cousin"

Redoutes is grandson of Dancing Show, Sincero is grandson of Dancing Show

Redoutes carries the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show, so does Sincero

Neat trick eh


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 4:21pm
I take it PT that it was your good self who was interviewed in the Sportsman for this weekend ?

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2010 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Another smashed class record @ 1600m at Randwick today

His Blueblood family will be happy to call him "cousin"

Redoutes is grandson of Dancing Show, Sincero is grandson of Dancing Show

Redoutes carries the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show, so does Sincero

Neat trick eh

Progeny Test,

Congrats on breeding such a nice horse. It is no doubt a big thrill.

In regards to your statements above....Yes....and No....

Firstly, MmtDNA only passes from daughter to daughter, a son gets it but he can't pass it on so while Umatilla had the same mtDNA as Redoute's Choice, he didn't pass it on (neither does Redoute's Choice) to any of his progeny, so Sincero doesn't specifically "carry the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show"...what Sincero does have (hopefully) is the same mtDNA haplotype as Stolen Hour, which should be the same mtDNA haplotype as Best in Show and thus Umatilla, Hurricane Sky and Redoute's Choice.

Secondly, while it is very important in ATP production and other functions it is apparent that just sharing the same mtDNA doesn't mean that you are going to be a good horse or not. If it was the case, you would see the bulk, if not all good horses coming from the one female line. mtDNA should not be used as some type of de-facto Bruce Lowe breeding system with the thought that being from particular families being more important than others. We just don't know enough about how mtDNA works in its interaction with genes to be absolute about how important mtDNA actually is. It is most likely that there will be genes existing in the nucleus that will influence/interact with mtDNA to help superior athletic production but until that becomes clear, suggesting that mtDNA is solely responsible for superior production isn't wise. 





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Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory...


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2010 at 8:34pm
Well yes Byron, But Dancing Show gets her mito from Stolen Hour.

The biggest trick will be to do it again. I will be happy just getting a city winner.

Thankyou again for your well wishes.



Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 10:13pm
Always Loyal (Bradbury's Luck - Be Faithful) ran 3rd in the Starcraft Quality at the Gold Coast on Saturday.  Has Best In Show as her 4th dam.

Biggles is the half brother by Jet Spur and is scheduled to trial tomorrow morning at Doomben.


Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 7:44am
Square Up (4F x 3M) to Dancing Show - early days yet before I get carried away!

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Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 9:42am
He's actually got a 2 x 3 cross of 3/4 siblings in Hurricane Sky and Shantha's Choice.  Is a pretty easy cross to replicate given the multitude of Redoute's Choice sons at stud.  Will be interesting to see how many other times we see this cross and how it performs over the next few years.


Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 9:55am
Dead right Lordy!

There are a few other factors in his pedigree that drew me into taking a share in him. The Blushing Groom x Nijinsky cross + the crossing of Northern Dancer 5 times ... + I like some of the duplications and ancestors when you take it back 8 generations (Red Sunset etc) + a couple of other powerful mixes  ...

Breeding helps but you also need that 75% of luck factor!!!


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Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Always Loyal (Bradbury's Luck - Be Faithful) ran 3rd in the Starcraft Quality at the Gold Coast on Saturday.  Has Best In Show as her 4th dam.
Biggles is the half brother by Jet Spur and is scheduled to trial tomorrow morning at Doomben.


How do you find out the results? I bought their 1/2 sister for $2000 and have a Umatilla and Spinning world colt now from her.


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 2:01pm

If you're referring to the trial reults you won't find any for Doomben as they were postponed due to the wet track.  Looking to hold them on Thursday but with storms forecast I don't see things improving by then. 



Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 2:33pm
Thanks Lordy


Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 7:42pm
It is going to be a few years before we know but a client just bred a cracking Redoute's Choice filly out of a Spinning World (Minne Hauk) mare with her next dam by El Gran Senor.

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&sire_reference_number=4628588&dam_reference_number=7077141&color=+&sex=+&hypo_foaling_year=&breeder=&nicking_stats_indicator=Y&x=18&y=9 - http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&sire_reference_number=4628588&dam_reference_number=7077141&color=+&sex=+&hypo_foaling_year=&breeder=&nicking_stats_indicator=Y&x=18&y=9


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Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory...


Posted By: orpen
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 8:35pm
Buyers have a few Best in Show options at the Classic sale:

Of the yearlings out of Hurricane Sky mares : Domesday (3), Stratum(2), God's Own(2) & NASD (1) all have the it.  3 via Monroe(Sir Ivor), and 5 via Show Lady(Sir Ivor) (doubling up).


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 1:01pm
Not quite from the family but an interesting pedigree just the same Shared Reflection by Umatilla out of a Hurricane Sky mare.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 1:36pm
Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Isis Isis wrote:

Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?


Gai Waterhouse's new 2yr old city winner at Warwick Farm today,

Umatilla wow !!!


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:55pm
Interestingly, apart from another Flaming Top relation there's very little in the way of sibling relationships for 6 gens or more in Shared Reflections' pedigree.
 
Nor from what I can see any outstanding top and bottom nicks.
 
So it's arguably down to either luck or the 8f family.  Wink


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It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:55pm
You could count the number of Umatillas she has had on one finger I'd imagine ?

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 5:00pm
Absolutely.

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It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 9:38pm
Hey Runfer, don't forget that Nijinsky/Flaming Top comes from the same Torpenhow family as Best in Show/Stolen Hour.


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 7:30am
Yes mate, exactly the point I was attempting to make about the additional instance.

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It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: Daraabah
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2011 at 9:02pm
Karaka Lot 258, filly by Zabeel ex Dane Dancer bought by M Kavanagh for $700k.


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2011 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Originally posted by Isis Isis wrote:

Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?


Gai Waterhouse's new 2yr old city winner at Warwick Farm today,

Umatilla wow !!!


She's being set for the 2yr old "widden stakes" next week,
Hang onto your hats

Pathfork set for the 2000 Guineas

Sincero back in work and set for the Gosford Guineas


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2011 at 7:58pm
Surely Sincero should be being aimed at the Doncaster ?

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2011 at 7:59am
Well, Gai Waterhouse told me that he is a champion.

I agree.

As a 2 yr old he broke the 1100 metre Wyong 2yr old record (by 1 second)and went within hundreds/second for the course record set by 5 yr olds.

He has broken Newcastle 1200m Kensington 1400m Randwick 1400m and Randwick 1600m (by 2 seconds) 6 weeks ago. 4 runs in about 5 weeks and 4 records.

He should be able to win anything up to 2040m including the cox plate as a 4yr old.

So, is he a sprinter or stayer ? His 2 yr old form says he can sprint

The owners want to run him for years, so I say he is at least a miler with a killer sprint.

No good ever came out of pushing a Umatilla too
quickly



Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2011 at 11:43am
Any thoughts on what this filly might make, given the obvious type/conformation variables? Melb. Autumn, by Al Samer ex Cocktail Dress, Lot 285? I thought on face value, neither side of the pedigree would have trainers/syndicators fighting for ownership Smile but as many know, I'm always attracted by those Blue Hen dups Wink

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 7:07am
A G3 for Shared Reflections in the Sweet Embrace @ Warwick Farm Thumbs Up

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:

I happened to catch Wyong trained 3yo Sincero win at Newcastle last start and he struck me as a very nice horse.  He was more than a class above the rest of the field and went straight into the mental black book.
 

He is going around at Kensington today but carries an extra 2.5kg (60kg) plus is up 200m in distance so it will be interesting to see how he handles the imposts.

 

He is by Umatilla out of a mare who tails back to Best In Show's full sister, Reckless Driver.

 

 


DON'T SAY I DIDN'T TELL YOU ABOUT HIM !!
Yours as always,
A very proud midwife to "midnight" in case you'r wondering, that's the time he was born not the colour of his coat
Sincero,
Roger


The Stephen Farley trained Sincero is the current favourite for the Group 1 Stradbroke Handicap (1400m) on the same day with the three-year-old Umatilla gelding, the winner of the listed Gosford Guineas over 1200m on April 25th, firming from $7.00 into $4.80.

Black Caviar has drifted from $3.50 to $6.00 and Hay List from $6.00 to $8.00.
Sincero is the current favourite for the Group 1 Stradbroke Handicap (1400m)


WOWW


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Originally posted by Isis Isis wrote:

Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?




Gai Waterhouse's new 2yr old city winner at Warwick Farm today,



Umatilla wow !!!




She's being set for the 2yr old "widden stakes" next week,

Hang onto your hats



Pathfork set for the 2000 Guineas



Sincero back in work and set for the Gosford Guineas


DOUBLE WOWW!!!!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Another smashed class record @ 1600m at Randwick today



His Blueblood family will be happy to call him "cousin"



Redoutes is grandson of Dancing Show, Sincero is grandson of Dancing Show



Redoutes carries the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show, so does Sincero



Neat trick eh


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:27pm
Mucked that up, access denied and I kept pressing buttons


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 1:56am
The family just produced a potential top liner at Newmarket tonight. Rougemont, is by Montjou and from the family Via Stolen Date, through Bubinka by Nashua - Starlight Smile by Green Dancer - Spritza by Spectrum.


Bound to be snapped eventually by either Darley of Coolmore, He should be a good match for Redoutes Choice mares.


Derby winner.




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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 12:14am
The "FAMILY" has just produced quite possibly the best 2yo seen in the UK  so far this season Top Offer.

A brilliant debut winner over 1400m at Newbury.

Bound to be favorite for the 2012 2000 Guineas after that electrifying performance.


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 12:24am
http://www1.skysports.com/racing/results/video/452148/newbury/12-08-2011/don-deadman-memorial-european-breeders-fund-maiden-stakes" rel="nofollow - http://www1.skysports.com/racing/results/video/452148/newbury/12-08-2011/don-deadman-memorial-european-breeders-fund-maiden-stakes

Worth watching. Thumbs Up


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 3:58am
Jazil sired an impressive winner tonight at Newmarket. His 2nd winner as a sire.

Royal blue, white epaulets, striped cap Watch these colours.

http://www1.skysports.com/racing/results/video/452162/newmarket/12-08-2011/talk-night-club-median-auction-maiden-stakes" rel="nofollow - http://www1.skysports.com/racing/results/video/452162/newmarket/12-08-2011/talk-night-club-median-auction-maiden-stakes


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2011 at 11:36am
He's back as impressive as ever.

Barrier trialled for 3rd in an easy jog. Heavy 10 track.
1st & 2nd under the whip.
Now the Group 3 Tramway @ Randwick in 2 weeks.

The media is back in overdrive.

Now put my seat belt on and hang on!!!!


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 8:06pm
Many congrats yet again pt, the start of another lucrative prep by the way he won today. Great result for us 'little ppl' who believe, unlike the mediia, that 50k is not a cheap y/ling Thumbs Up

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 8:18pm
Marvelous for PT and connections.  Clap
However am almost absolutely certain that one of our number will entirely refuse to accept that in-breeding within 5 generations or indeed line-breeding had anything to do with the huge upgrade that this terrific performer exemplifies. 


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It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 2:39pm
LOLWink


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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 7:21pm
And a "race record" to boot. By .69 seconds on NIPS record 2004

Record no.7


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 10:50am
http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/newsmore.html?Id=17568" rel="nofollow -

Racing history is full of tales of bargain buys becoming champions. Part of the sport’s great appeal stems from its glorious uncertainty, much of which comes from the fact that nobody knows the ability of an untried horse. There is, of course, educated guesswork, and this is the basis on which the big spenders decide which yearlings should be the recipients of their six- or seven-figure bids. However, each year many future stars slip through the auction ring with seemingly neither vendors nor potential buyers realizing the extent of their potential – and at present there are so many inexpensively bought top-liners going around that one would have to question whether the total sum of educated guesswork amounts to anything at all. Of the many recent bargains, few rank as highly as http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2412872" rel="nofollow - Sincero , a son of http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=729007" rel="nofollow - Umatilla who cost $8,000 at the 2009 Inglis Bloodstock Classic Yearling Sale and whose latest victory came in the Group One George Main Stakes at Rosehill on 17th September, writes John Berry.

Sadly, Umatilla’s owners will not be able to profit from the wonderful advertisement which Sincero is providing for their horse: Umatilla was retired last year at Blue Gum Farm near Euroa in Victoria, where he had spent the entirety of his stud career. Although never commanding a fee higher than $10,000, Umatilla enjoyed a very successful stud career, so far having been represented by six individual Group One winners, who recorded their top-level victories across the distance spectrum from 1200m to 3200m.

At the time of his birth, Umatilla’s pedigree was clearly a strong one, but subsequent events have made its quality even plainer. Born in New Zealand in 1988, Umatilla had been conceived in Kentucky to southern hemisphere time, his dam http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1087306" rel="nofollow - Dancing Show having been covered by http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1675202" rel="nofollow - Miswaki at Walmac Farm in the second half of 1987 and exported to New Zealand in-foal. Once Umatilla had been born, mother and son moved to Australia, where Dancing Show took up residence at Norman Carlyon’s Muranna Stud on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. She was clearly an exciting young broodmare: not only was she a winning daughter of the 1970 Triple Crown winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1741745" rel="nofollow - Nijinsky who two years previously had posted the remarkable achievement of siring the Derby winner ( http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2021144" rel="nofollow - Shahrastani ) and Kentucky Derby winner ( http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1215535" rel="nofollow - Ferdinand ) in the same season, but she was also a grand-daughter of the great matriarch http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=881234" rel="nofollow - Best In Show .

By this time Best In Show was already known as the dam of the high-class full-brothers http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1600673" rel="nofollow - Malinowski and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1288450" rel="nofollow - Gielgud and of their full-sister http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1645601" rel="nofollow - Minnie Hauk (dam of the Group One-winning filly http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=840380" rel="nofollow - Aviance ) and as the grand-dam of the Dewhurst-winning full-brothers http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2240303" rel="nofollow - Try My Best and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1170572" rel="nofollow - El Gran Senor . Subsequently she would find even greater fame as ancestress of such champions as http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2100108" rel="nofollow - Spinning World , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2383895" rel="nofollow - Rags To Riches and her half-brother http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2378057" rel="nofollow - Jazil , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=195511" rel="nofollow - Domedriver , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=762656" rel="nofollow - Xaar , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2385878" rel="nofollow - Peeping Fawn , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1109508" rel="nofollow - Denon , and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1010613" rel="nofollow - Chimes Of Freedom and her son http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=793074" rel="nofollow - Aldebaran . In Australia the family would eventually be further enhanced by Dancing Show’s Australian-conceived offspring, who included the 1994 Blue Diamond Stakes winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=319439" rel="nofollow - Hurricane Sky as well as the winning fillies http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=628300" rel="nofollow - Shantha's Choice and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=633708" rel="nofollow - Show Dancing . These two fillies became great broodmares, the former breeding three Group One winners including the champion sire http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=575341" rel="nofollow - Redoute's Choice , while the latter is the dam of the Group One winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2363207" rel="nofollow - Al Maher . Further Australian laurels came to this family when Dancing Show’s US-bred half-sister http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1507726" rel="nofollow - Ladies' Day was sent down under: covered by Shantha’s Choice’s Golden Slipper-winning sire http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=121558" rel="nofollow - Canny Lad , she produced http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2381584" rel="nofollow - He's No Pie Eater , winner of two Group One races as a three-year-old during the Sydney Autumn Carnival of 2007.

In the same way that Umatilla was the horse who brought the Dancing Show family to the attention of the Australian public, he also led the way down under for the http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1699290" rel="nofollow - Mr Prospector sire-line. This line has found it easier to become dominant in America than elsewhere, but in recent years it has been enjoying consistently good results in Australia. For a while its two most obvious Australian stars were the multiple Group One winners http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2388640" rel="nofollow - Weekend Hussler and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2371994" rel="nofollow - Apache Cat , sons of Hussonet and Lion Cavern respectively. More recently, Storming Home’s son http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2403335" rel="nofollow - Lion Tamer has added this season’s Underwood Stakes to his victory in last year’s Victoria Derby, while this year’s Sydney Autumn Carnival saw the Elusive Quality colt http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2409248" rel="nofollow - Sepoy follow up his Blue Diamond success by taking the Golden Slipper and the imported Kingmambo gelding (My) http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2401375" rel="nofollow - Kingdom Of Fife win the Queen Elizabeth Stakes. This had followed the victories at the Melbourne Autumn Carnival of the 2009 Melbourne Cup winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2399767" rel="nofollow - Shocking in the Australian Cup and of http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2397537" rel="nofollow - Eagle Falls in the Oakleigh Plate, sons of Street Cry and Hussonet respectively.

However, when Umatilla was racing, Australian success for the Mr Prospector line was much rarer. Umatilla’s sire http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1675202" rel="nofollow - Miswaki came from the third crop of Mr Prospector, and Miswaki was only nine when Umatilla was conceived. Now best regarded as a massively influential broodmare sire, Miswaki, who had been a Group One-winning two-year-old in France in 1980, was also an excellent sire of racehorses. http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2259868" rel="nofollow - Urban Sea (now the dam of nine stakes winners including http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1272831" rel="nofollow - Galileo and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2395288" rel="nofollow - Sea The Stars ) provided him with a highlight in this respect by winning the 1993 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe, while another great triumph was the 1991 Breeders’ Cup Classic victory of http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=900015" rel="nofollow - Black Tie Affair . Under the circumstances, Umatilla was entitled to attract some attention when he started racing in Australia in the 1990/’91 season, especially as the Australasia into which he was born was very different from the one which we now know. The practice of shuttling dual-hemisphere stallions was then still in its infancy, which meant that sons of top-class northern hemisphere-based sires (such as the 1990 Melbourne Cup winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1491869" rel="nofollow - Kingston Rule , a son of the mighty http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2010638" rel="nofollow - Secretariat ) still had considerable rarity value there.

Interesting though his pedigree made him, though, Umatilla became even more of a celebrity once he started racing. Trained by Tommy Hughes snr at Flemington, he raced twelve times as a two-year-old, finishing in the first three on eleven occasions. Although he raced principally in Melbourne, Umatilla flew across the Nullarbor to challenge for the principal two-year-old race in Western Australia, the Karrakatta Plate over 1200m at Ascot, which then still carried Group One status and was still held during Perth’s Summer Carnival. (It is now a Group Two race and is held much later in the season, in March or April). He won that, the first two-year-olds’ Group One race of the season, under Greg Childs, who had recently relocated from New Zealand to Melbourne; and he further proved both his toughness and class by heading both up to Sydney to finish second in the Group Two Pago Pago Stakes at Rosehill behind http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=86820" rel="nofollow - Big Dreams and across to Adelaide to win a Listed race over 1000m at Victoria Park. He was also placed in both of Melbourne’s Group One two-year-old races, the Blue Diamond and the VRC Sires’ Produce Stakes (which no longer carries Group One status). In the former he finished second to http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=121650" rel="nofollow - Canonise and in the latter he finished third behind Not Related, a South Australian-trained daughter of the well-bred Victorian-based Sir Ivor stallion http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=1203782" rel="nofollow - Family Ties .

One of Melbourne’s best trainers of his generation, Tommy Hughes continued to apply the old school dictum that racehorses are meant to be raced: Umatilla was even busier as a three-year-old in the 1991/’92 season, racing 16 times. He won three of these races, with his best victory coming in the Group Three Hilton On The Park Stakes over 1200m at the Flemington Carnival in which he ran 1:08.6 seconds under top weight of 58 kilos. He was also placed in both of Melbourne’s principal Group One sprints in the autumn: second to the brilliant http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=617668" rel="nofollow - Schillaci in the Lightning Stakes over 1000m at weight-for-age with the grand sprinting mare http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2326624" rel="nofollow - Wrap Around third, and third to Schillaci in the Newmarket Handicap over 1200m. Umatilla remained in training as a four-year-old in the 1992/’93 season, running 10 times and recording one more victory. All told, when he retired to Blue Gum Farm at the end of the season, he had raced 38 times for the hugely creditable haul of seven victories and 16 minor placings. Although he had been Group One-placed as a two-year-old over 1400m, all his wins and all his best form had come at distances up to 1200m – and he had clearly been at least as tough as he was fast.

It would be wrong to say that Umatilla ever threatened to join the elite band of Australian sires (which is rather surprising considering the fact that, in retrospect, he can be seen to have made a tremendous start to his stud career with his first crop ultimately proving to contain four individual Group One winners). The fact that his stud fee never got above $10,000 makes that clear. However, his nominations proved to be real bargains for scores of Victorian breeders. He was a prolific sire of winners across the distance spectrum. Fittingly, his first Group One winner was his first-crop son http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=728991" rel="nofollow - Umah , successful in the 1996 Karrakatta Plate and thus the last horse to win the race before its demotion to a Group Two and before its relocation to the autumn.

While Umah recorded his Group One victory over the same distance (and in the same race) as his sire had registered his, Umatilla’s subsequent Group One winners have all scored over farther. Another member of Umatilla's first crop, http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=729282" rel="nofollow - Umrum , won two editions of the Toorak Handicap (in 1999 and 2000) over 1600m at Caulfield, while http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2347082" rel="nofollow - Valedictum landed the Emirates Stakes over the same distance at Flemington in 2005. Surprisingly, Umatilla has been represented by two Group One winners at 3200m: http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=670062" rel="nofollow - Streak , another member of Umatilla's first crop and winner of the Sydney Cup in 2000, and http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=97357" rel="nofollow - Bohemiath , successful in the Adelaide Cup the same year and yet another top-class winner from Umatilla's first crop. Umatilla has also been responsible for many other good stayers, including 1998 Caulfield Cup runner-up http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=400478" rel="nofollow - Lisa's Game , 2003 AJC Derby runner-up http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2341496" rel="nofollow - Strasbourg , 2003 Herbert Power Handicap winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2343060" rel="nofollow - Yakama and 2005 Moonee Valley Gold Cup winner http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2375263" rel="nofollow - Umbula . He has also, of course, been represented by many fast and precocious horses, including the Group-winning two-year-olds http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=395833" rel="nofollow - Li Lo Lill , http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=657649" rel="nofollow - Special Edition and last season’s Sweet Embrace Stakes victrix http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2411340" rel="nofollow - Shared Reflections , and by the Group One-placed sprinter http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=92598" rel="nofollow - Blessum . Li Lo Lill, incidentally, followed up her victory in the SAJC Sires’ Produce Stakes as a two-year-old in 2001 by making the frame the following spring in Melbourne in both the VATC Thousand Guineas and the VRC Oaks.

And now Umatilla is represented in retirement by arguably his best son yet. Sincero is a hugely progressive four-year-old who was a Group One winner as a three-year-old over 1400m in the Stradbroke Handicap in Brisbane and who has now won both his starts at four: the Group Three Tramway Handicap over 1400m at Warwick Farm and the Group One George Main Stakes over 1600m at Rosehill. Sincero has so far been placed by his astute Wyong-based trainer Stephen Farley to win 11 of his 15 starts. He currently ranks very close to the best in the land – and who knows how much farther he will rise up the rankings?

It might be worth mentioning that Sincero comes from the same family as his sire: Sincero’s fifth dam http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2122568" rel="nofollow - Stolen Hour is the dam of Umatilla’s famous third dam Best In Show. It might also be worth mentioning that Umatilla’s best two-year-old of last season, http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=2411340" rel="nofollow - Shared Reflections , is from a daughter of Umatilla’s half-brother http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/pedigree.html?id=319439" rel="nofollow - Hurricane Sky . These two examples of in-breeding have clearly worked – but Umatilla was such a good stallion that he was able to get good winners from a wide variety of backgrounds, and clearly was not totally dependent on the help of such clever ‘nicks’ to sire good horses.

http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/newssearch.html?Keywords=2296=Search" rel="nofollow">



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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 4:07pm
What? No acknowledgement to the breeder of such a well planned mating? Angry

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 4:17pm
You just did Gay, Thanks


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 4:28pm
Same as when a top horse breaks down, all these hacks can say is "What a dreadful loss to 'name trainer', a horse like that is very hard to replace"  of course, no mention of the poor bloody owner who's footed the bill right thru' its' career Angry. They get too enraptured by what's in front of their nose instead of reporting the wider picture which is why I rather liked Blakes' written interviews......... they were interesting!  

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 7:58pm
track/race record no.8 made on George Main stakes (because it was run at rosehill)


Well Gay the good news too is that

He WAS VOTED "Australia's 2nd best 3yr old colt for 2010/11" on 137 points behind Star Witness (150 points) on Sunday night


Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

track/race record no.8 made on George Main stakes (because it was run at rosehill)


Well Gay the good news too is that

He WAS VOTED "Australia's 2nd best 3yr old colt for 2010/11" on 137 points behind Star Witness (150 points) on Sunday night


Did I get invited to the awards? NO


Posted By: straight
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

track/race record no.8 made on George Main stakes (because it was run at rosehill)


Well Gay the good news too is that

He WAS VOTED "Australia's 2nd best 3yr old colt for 2010/11" on 137 points behind Star Witness (150 points) on Sunday night


Did I get invited to the awards? NO
 Im still waiting to breed a winner at any level
You should be happy with your knowledge and group success ( i know you are}Clap


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u dont have to b dead to b stiff


Posted By: Mr Prospector
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 12:20pm
He could be the best horse in the country , so well done pt and I hope he goes on with it .


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

track/race record no.8 made on George Main stakes (because it was run at rosehill)


Well Gay the good news too is that

He WAS VOTED "Australia's 2nd best 3yr old colt for 2010/11" on 137 points behind Star Witness (150 points) on Sunday night


Did I get invited to the awards? NO
 
Its a bit piss poor not inviting the guy who planned raised spent a small fortune sold for very little the countries best racehorse.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2011 at 7:00pm
Breeder Awards? They have a night for them don't they - or only when the big conglomerates are concerned? Wink

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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 2:39am
Big Time.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: kavg
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 2:27pm
I thought exactly the same Djebel when I checked his pedigree straight after the race. Sire also from a champion female family (Eight Carat).


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 1:06pm

Wishing you all the best today 'p t' Smile.   This from The Age:

RACING is built on dreams. For most there is not the hoped-for ending, but for New South Wales farmer Roger Gorham an ambition that he has held dear since the death of his father 40 years ago finally came to fruition earlier this year and might have an encore at Moonee Valley today.

Gorham 53, was still in short pants when his father died of cancer, aged just 41, but Gorham senior had bred the odd harness horse and his son followed them with great interest.
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One of those named Koala Frost, (sire of grand circuit champion Koala King) won the 1970 Lord Mayors Cup at Harold Park, beating Bold David as well as winning the inaugural Carousel Final, and from that time in his life Roger Gorham wanted to emulate his dad.

The trouble was that he followed him into the farming business and there was not a lot of spare cash to spend on dreams.

Gorham thought he would get around to it one day, but reality hit when his sister and brother also died of cancer within a couple of years of each other.

''It was always a dream of mine to breed a group 1 horse like dad, but I couldn't afford to,'' he said.

''But when my brother and sister died, I thought, 'quick, it doesn't matter whether you could afford to do it or not, I might be the next one to go'.''

While he might not have had the money to spend, Gorham had spent plenty of time looking through pedigrees and at stallions he might one day use.

Cost was always going to be the determining factor in his choice of stallion and mare, and after much research Gorham settled on Blue Gum Farm's Umatilla.

''He [Umatilla] had a great pedigree and has as good a stake-winners-to-runners ratio as much more expensive stallions.

''I'm just a busted-arse farmer and a $4000 stallion was what I could afford.''

However, the choice of Umatilla, a descendant of the great broodmare Best In Show, went deeper than price, because Gorham wanted to replicate the breeding of members of the Best In Show family that he had observed to be a highly successful mating. After six months of searching, he located a mare named Yours As Always from that family at an Inglis mixed sale in Melbourne in March 2006.

''I got there late the night before the sale and slept in my swag in the float. I was only there to buy the one horse and luckily I was able to get her for $5000.''

In due course Yours As Always produced a Umatilla colt, not the filly Gorham had hoped to breed on with.

As a result the colt, the first horse he had bred, was on the market and eventually headed to the Inglis Classic Yearling Sale, with Gorham preparing him himself rather than using a professional yearling vendor.

''It was my hobby and I didn't see any point in handing him over to someone else to prepare for the sale.''

Buyers showed little interest in the colt and he was knocked down for just $8000 to the owners of Yours As Always' previous foal.

''I can tell you, only four people looked at him and I know that because I sat there for four days. I was gutted and thought what was the point of breeding a nice horse and getting such a pathetic price. What a stupid hobby,'' he said.

The year the colt was foaled, the plan had been to send his dam back to Umatilla, but the day before she was due to head to Victoria, equine influenza struck, meaning those plans were cancelled and she then failed to conceive to another Best In Show family stallion, Spinning World.

After the disappointing result at the yearling sale, Gorham did not bother sending his mare to stud in the next two years but kept her ''just in case''.

As the colt who was named Sincero started to show serious ability, Gorham decided to give Yours As Always another chance, but with Umatilla retired, Spinning World was again his choice.

The 19-year-old got in foal but died of natural causes this year.

Meanwhile, Sincero has won the Stradbroke Handicap and George Main Stakes and nearly $1.5 million in stakes and today will be aiming to take out the Cox Plate, with Gorham, who has never owned a racehorse, driving down to take it all in.

''It's a great thrill to have a runner and unbelievable to breed a great horse, just like my father.''




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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 6:26pm
VAVAVIC, Might be another Sincero.

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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: progeny test
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

<span ="horse-name">VAVAVIC, Might be another Sincero.</span>


You'll probably think I'm telling a lie, BUT
I recommended / inspected him and was surprised he only made $20000.
I only looked at him and a Domesday & Royal Academy all sale
I was there to sell not buy. They should have bought my filly too.
and didn't
Gone to a champion trainer.
I am extremely pleased.

ps. what about Alezan Thunder by Written Tycoon
3rd in Magic Millions 2yr old race at weekend,
Female Family of Stolen Hour out of Last Tycoon sireline



Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 4:50pm
http://www.inglis.com.au/images/pedigrees/12EAY/Lot00096.pdf" rel="nofollow">Pedigree


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reductio ad absurdum





Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2012 at 5:05pm
Interesting to see both Niagara and Permit to pick up black type wins for this female line today.


Posted By: Lomond
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:19pm
Plus Cityscape at the big Dubai meeting.  Nice day's work for BIS

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study the charts


Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 8:53pm
The recent announcement that the high-class Canford Cliffs will stand at Blue Gum this year is worth a mention here too, given his grandsire Taufan is a grandson of Stolen Hour, the dam of Best in Show.

A top class horse at 2,3 & 4 with great miler speed & just looking at his "side on" photos over the years, an A-Grade type I think.


Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2012 at 5:56pm
And CC also has a more distant strain of Best in Show through the sire of his dam, Marju, by Last Tycoon, by Try My Best whose grand-dam was Best in Show.



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