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Snitzel

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Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=19060
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Topic: Snitzel
Posted By: stagg
Subject: Snitzel
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 2:46am
Got a double at the trials at Rosehill this morning. One of Paul Messara's and one of Gerald Ryan's that i'm told he bred himself.



Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 2:56am
I was underbidder on Paul's Snitzel filly Milanesa. She made good money but was a cracking yearling.
 
I see she only won narrowly and ran pretty average time, so maybe I dodged a bullet.


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 2:58am
Thats good , ithink he will do a job. Hoping as i have one


Posted By: Adladain
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 3:04am
yeah, i'm hoping his progeny are worth their money. i've got one- Sheila's Star (Snitzel-Northeast Sheila)

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Daintree Duke R.I.P


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by soothsayer soothsayer wrote:

I was underbidder on Paul's Snitzel filly Milanesa. She made good money but was a cracking yearling.
 
I see she only won narrowly and ran pretty average time, so maybe I dodged a bullet.
 
Watched the trial soothsayer , although slow time she was very professional and a very sound good trial


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 8:01pm
*sound effort, good trial


Posted By: lotto7
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 8:17pm
Really like Snitzel but there has not been a lot of talk about his progeny leading up to the breeding season and trails. Does cast a shadow of doubt as they are always quick to spruke a good one. That said, still believe he will make it as a sire.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 9:01pm
Yeah I just saw the trial Nocturnal, I think she was just there for a day out and still won so maybe she has something. I hope she does run, I want my client to give me a crack next year!

I too like Snitzel as a stallion prospect. For a smaller neater horse he has thrown quite a few big scopey types, this filly a good example.

He was a genuine 2yo and trained on. He might make 1st season sire honours interesting.


Posted By: orpen
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 9:09pm
Doesn't seem to stamp them which can go against a stallion. Doesn't mean they won't gallop, but tells the buyer he isn't dominant. At the MM I sometimes try guessing the yearling's stallion without looking at the catalogue page. I distinctly remember one baby, a chestnut with a big white blaze. I could have sworn it was a Peintre Celebre, even though there wasn't one in the sale. The yearling was by Snitzel out of a PC mare. Looked nothing like Snitzel.


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by orpen orpen wrote:

Doesn't seem to stamp them which can go against a stallion. Doesn't mean they won't gallop, but tells the buyer he isn't dominant. At the MM I sometimes try guessing the yearling's stallion without looking at the catalogue page. I distinctly remember one baby, a chestnut with a big white blaze. I could have sworn it was a Peintre Celebre, even though there wasn't one in the sale. The yearling was by Snitzel out of a PC mare. Looked nothing like Snitzel.
 
Maybe, or maybe its the lunchtime comming through.


Posted By: orpen
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 10:17pm
Could be Bradjm. I also reckon Choisir is more Lunchtime than DD.


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 11:07pm
yeah it always has me beat anyway, i try to play that guessing game at the sales and have a success rate of about 3% :)
 
 


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2009 at 5:07pm
saw both trials on the tv. agree with nocturnal re milanesa and was impressed with Intertidal. although ridden out a bit ran good time and attacked the line. looks like a miler in the making too not a mad runner.


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2009 at 7:45am
Intertidal ran an enormous race to run 2nd in the first at rosehill today. 4 deep the trip and went down by half a length to one that was 3rd the fence and got the suck run. had a look at him nice horse in the yard, still 12 months away plenty of growing into himself to do and did look a run short.


Posted By: nod.
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2009 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by orpen orpen wrote:

Doesn't seem to stamp them which can go against a stallion. Doesn't mean they won't gallop, but tells the buyer he isn't dominant. .
  
Actually all "stamping" restricted to appearance is pretty meaningless and buyers placing emphasis  on this have no respect for the old adage "beauty is only skin deep"
The best form of "stamping" comes on the racecourse when junior runs as dad did.


Posted By: Cityboy
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2009 at 5:28pm
I remember John Messara saying early in Redoubte's stallion career that he seemed to throw a variety of types and different colours unlike his Dad.
 
It didn't seem to matter.


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2009 at 3:45am
Originally posted by stagg stagg wrote:

Intertidal ran an enormous race to run 2nd in the first at rosehill today. 4 deep the trip and went down by half a length to one that was 3rd the fence and got the suck run. had a look at him nice horse in the yard, still 12 months away plenty of growing into himself to do and did look a run short.
 
Very good run , Agree. The filly looked a little disapointing though.


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 7:17am
Snitzel Opens His Account
Mark Smith - Saturday, 24 October 2009

Former top sprinter Snitzel has been as fast off the mark at stud as he was on the track. His son Intertidal opened his winning account in Saturday's www.theraces.com.au Hcp (1100m) at Rosehill.

A strong finishing second when making his career debut at Rosehill on October 10, Intertidal was sent straight to the front by Chris Munce and cruised home a 3 1/4-length winner over Misshiraz (Secret Savings) with Circle Of Power (Arena) third.

Trainer Gerald Ryan should know a thing or two about the family.

"I trained the father (Snitzel), mother (Miss Rainmaker) and mothers sire (Hurricane Sky)," Ryan revealed.

"He has come a long way in a short space of time. Not long ago I told the owners he was no good, he had shown nothing."

"I'm very glad to have trained Snitzel's first winner."

A homebred, Intertidal is the first live foal of the Hurricane Sky mare Miss Rainmaker who won her first two starts at Wyong and Randwick before finishing last in the 2005 Light Fingers Stakes (G2). She had one further start before being retired.

She has been a regular visitor to the court of Snitzel (pictured) with a yearling colt and a filly foal by the Oakleigh Plate (G1) hero.

After being well supported by breeders in his first three seasons at a fee of $33,000, the fleet-footed son of Redoute's Choice has had his fee reduced to $22,000 this season.



Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 7:21am

First Winner For Snitzel

Saturday, 24 October 2009: Fittingly, Gerald Ryan goes down as the trainer to prepare the first winner by G1 Oakleigh Plate winner Snitzel, with Intertidal notching the milestone for the stallion today.

Snitzel
Snitzel
Photo by Bronwen Healy

http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/buyPhoto.asp?item=/photogallery/medium/Snitzel-04152008-7266.jpg - Purchase this image


Having start number two after debuting with a solid second to Lohan at Rosehill two weeks ago, Intertidal justified his short price in the market and his backers had no cause for concern at any stage of the 1100m race.

Ryan pointed out that he not only trained Snitzel, but also Intertidal's dam Miss Rainmaker, in addition to her sire Hurricane Sky.

Miss Rainmaker won two races, while Hurricane Sky's career was highlighted by his track record breaking win in the 1994 G1 Blue Diamond Stakes.

Intertidal is one of just two runners to date for Snitzel.

A son of Redoute's Choice, Snitzel started favourite in both the Magic Millions and Golden Slipper of his year, but had to wait until the autumn of his three-year-old season before enjoying Group 1 glory, in the Oakleigh Plate.

He stands at Arrowfield off a fee of $22,000 and he has been given every possible chance of success, covering more than 300 mares in his first three years at stud.



Posted By: Enlighten
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 11:42pm
I will be leading first year sire imo

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If its no longer fun .......How can it not be ???


Posted By: Enlighten
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Enlighten Enlighten wrote:

I will be leading first year sire imo
*He will be


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If its no longer fun .......How can it not be ???


Posted By: tvlark
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2009 at 7:00pm
Nice types. Looks like he'll make something.


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2009 at 6:51am
Won again Intertidal.


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 5:35am
Flying. The very impressive winner last week Chance Bye at randwick also by snitzel.


Posted By: Daraabah
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 7:07am

...From Arrowfield newsletter........

In addition to being the sire of dual metropolitan

winner Intertidal (ex Miss Rainmaker, by Hurricane

Sky), Snitzel is responsible for Bouzy Rouge (ex

Blurrta, by Bahhare (USA) [who sports a win and

two placings from three starts], Bellerive graduate One More Grand (ex

Lambada Lady (USA), by Seattle Slew) who bolted in at Queanbeyan last

week by 5 ½ lengths, and on Saturday Chance Bye (ex Rouge Femme, by

Red Ransom (USA) made an ultra impressive debut in the $250,000 Inglis

Nursery after winning a Kembla barrier trial by 12 lengths in a lead-up

event.

As at 22 December Snitzel has four winners (of five races) from just seven

starters who have earned $333,350 in prizemoney. The young stallion

heads the First Season Sire Table for 2009/2010 and his winners to starters

percentage of 57.1% also sees him secure second position on this season’s

2YO Sires Table.

One to watch: the Gerald Ryan trained Rock My Heart will now make his

debut at Randwick on New Years Day.

15 Snitzel youngsters are catalogued for the 2010 Magic Millions Yearling

Sale and include six consigned by Arrowfield and Bellerive studs.



Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2010 at 8:09am
got the quinella in the 2yo at rosehill today. on fiyaaah!!!!


Posted By: stagg
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 7:09am

Rosehill - Top Drop does it tough for Ryan
Brad Waters
Saturday, 16 January 2010

Rosehill trainer Gerald Ryan was quick to sing the praises of young sire Snitzel after Top Drop’s gritty win in the Spring Valley Smart Energy Handicap (1100m) at Rosehill.

Ryan trained Snitzel to win the 2006 Group I Oakleigh Plate and has supported the stallion’s early progeny, the trainer has five youngsters by Snitzel in his stables.

“I’ve got five of them in the stable and this bloke (Top Drop) is probably the worst one out of the lot of them,” Ryan said. “I’m very happy with him. He’s a great little horse.”

“They (Snitzel progeny) race, they’re good doers, they’re tough and they don’t get shin sore. But they’re not quick early and they seem like they will be better over 1400 metres.”

Top Drop had to do it the hard way after being caught wide in the early speed battle but jockey Jim Cassidy got the best out of the two-year-old to carve out a narrow win over the Kris Lees-trained Testarhythm.

“I said to Jimmy today to be positive out of the gates because he’s not really quick,” Ryan said. “I wouldn’t have minded being caught three wide but he was caught four wide today.

“But that is all right when you have Jim Cassidy on top.”

The Chris Waller-trained Much Much More battled on fairly for third spot ahead of his stablemate American Crew.

The $3.60 favourite Ancestor settled well back before passing a few late but was never a winning chance.

The placings and margins: Top Drop (J Cassidy) 56.5kg ($15) defeated Testarhythm (H Bowman) 57kg ($8.50) by a short neck with 2-3/4 lengths back to Much Much More (N Rawiller) 57kg ($9) in third place.

Winner’s breeding – Top Drop is a two-year-old colt by Snitzel out of Fine Red (Red Ransom (USA)).

The time and sectionals – The field covered the 1100 metres in 1.04.87 with the last 600 run in 35.07 seconds.

The market – Top Drop opened at $13 before drifting to $15. Testarhythm eased from $6 to $8.50 while Much Much More drifted from $7 out to $9. Ancestor firmed from $3.80 to $3.60. Breakout was specked $51 to $26 while American Crew was backed from $10 to $7.

The on-course market closed at 112 percent



Posted By: Flight
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 9:20pm
Firstly, sorry mods but every time I tried to Search for "Snitzel", the page fell over.  And I can't blame the internet for that anymore (I hope) as we have just been upgraded to 4G.  Yay!  So please merge at your leisure.
 
I was looking at the Sires stats from the Bluebloods newsletter and noticed that Snitzel has not yet sired a stakes winner this season from 157 runners.
 
His service fee history is interesting.
 
Season
2006-8    33k
2009       22k
2010-11  27.5k
2012       33k
2013       49.5k
2014       71.5k
2015       88k
 
No stakes winners after four and a bit months.  88K.....
 
Mind you he is at 18 on the earnings list so has been very consistent.  But not a lot of confidence going into the early yearling sales based on season-to-date stats.
 
 
 
 
 
 


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“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King


Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 9:37pm
He is struggling for sure.


Posted By: whitt0
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 9:49pm
This season:
- 79th Winners/Runners at 30.3%
- 0% Stakeswinners
- 46th Avg Earn/Runner at $13,029

2015 season:
- 20th Winners/Runners at 51.7%
- 13th Stakeswinners/Runners at 5.4%
- 15th Avg Earn/Runner at $37,677

2014 stats also strong. I am sure his numbers will lift. Might get a bargain at the Classics sale?


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 10:12pm
11 Stakeswinners last season.  Equal 3rd with Redoutes Choice.  Only Fasten Rock and Exceed and Excel.  He goes alright and memories aren't quite that short.

Still expect to see people forking out more for hyped up 1st season sires at the upcoming sales. 


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 8:05am
It can happen when a sire looses a lot to stud etc.  You have to remember he had quite a few three year old G1 or SW winners retired to stud in recently.  So he doesn't have his class horses for the older races.  It happened with Bletchingly early on when they retired nearly every stakes winner he had to stud he struggled for a bit before the next generation matured enough.


Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 8:13am
bump



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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!


Posted By: Beliskner
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 12:43pm
Maybe my logic is completely flawed, but he would have benefited from all the hype Sizzling have, the way some people talked about him it was like he was some multiple group 1 champion race horse, yes he won the TJ Smith, but his post-2yo form never warranted the type of hype he received IMHO.

Also Wandjina to a lesser degree, hyped up as some super horse, he eventually proved himself a group 1 performer, and apparently is a fantastic type, but again IMO his not at the level i heard some people talk about him.

So there is probably that stallion making appeal to him, more so then other sires recently, their's plenty of Redoute's sons around, and too many Fastnet's need the ultimate gear change to gamble on them as a stallion, perhaps Snitzel's are seen as better stallion gamble for owners and studs looking to strike gold.


Or i am way off and what i've said is utter gibberish.


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Beliskner Beliskner wrote:

Maybe my logic is completely flawed, but he would have benefited from all the hype Sizzling have, the way some people talked about him it was like he was some multiple group 1 champion race horse, yes he won the TJ Smith, but his post-2yo form never warranted the type of hype he received IMHO.

Also Wandjina to a lesser degree, hyped up as some super horse, he eventually proved himself a group 1 performer, and apparently is a fantastic type, but again IMO his not at the level i heard some people talk about him.

So there is probably that stallion making appeal to him, more so then other sires recently, their's plenty of Redoute's sons around, and too many Fastnet's need the ultimate gear change to gamble on them as a stallion, perhaps Snitzel's are seen as better stallion gamble for owners and studs looking to strike gold.


Or i am way off and what i've said is utter gibberish.
Not sure I'm following.  I don't see any particular hype horse that Snitzel produced distorting perceptions of his own quality.  He's got 70% winners to runners, 7.5% Stakes winners to runners and 6 individual Group 1 winners here in Aust.  Thats from 6 full crops of racing age.  His numbers are up there with the best and although his $88k stud fee is also up there I reckon he's justified it.


Posted By: Beliskner
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 1:12pm
I was referring to his stud fee, don't get me wrong his definitely one of the countries top sires, but why it's gotten that high could be partly based on what i said, or i could be 100% wrong, i just think he does tend to get colts/stallions that get a bit overhyped.


Posted By: Speediskey
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 2:24pm
Yeah to be honest none of his progeny have really been hyped that much - Wandjina had a little bit before he did anything purely because of his price tag but not hyped at all really. Sizzling was a good Queenslander and thats about it. 

I think Snitzel is a top sire, give it time to average out, hes guaranteed to finish higher on the table than he is now, wait for the two year olds to get going.


Posted By: Hazyview
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 2:57pm
I think Sizzling was what he was - a nice Queensland horse by, what was at the time, a cheap stallion.

Wandjina was probably a genuine top-liner by the end of his career, the All Aged 2nd against a top-of-his-powers Dissident showed that. Would have been interesting to see how he got on as a 4YO, the Australian Guineas form has also worked out well, but alas, the breeding barn called!


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 7:09pm
A lot can said of his stallion fee rise, maybe it can be put down to the prices they are bringing at the sales , he seems to be a good producer of nice types and that is a fair  start .His Stats are good but looking at the mares they are taking , virtually any willing to part with money ,his stats may drop a little in the future  , one can't dismiss the value of his female line  maybe NASD is a better option value wise at the moment .


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 10:09pm
The only other stallion in his price bracket is Lonhro. Very similar stud records too. If you drop your price bracket slightly he would be among Pierro, All Too Hard and Sepoy. Reckon he's achieved a fair bit more than them at stud.


Posted By: Hazyview
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 10:18pm
He's definitely an elite stallion. Comparing to Lonhro, they have a very similar SW and GW %, though Lonhro has two more crops than Snitzel which very much makes me favour Snitzel. Also Snitzel already has more 2YO SW than Lonhro.

He is Mr Commercial.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 12:17am
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

The only other stallion in his price bracket is Lonhro. Very similar stud records too. If you drop your price bracket slightly he would be among Pierro, All Too Hard and Sepoy. Reckon he's achieved a fair bit more than them at stud.
True, but that doesn't mean those three are in the right bracket.

But hey, I also can't understand how people pay $1,000+ for a wrist watch.

Snitzel has over 1,057 foals on the ground. Some might suggest that his 2015 book (if it's as big as his last three, leaving 150+ foals) would be the last, before the laws of diminishing returns take over. I wonder if the studs take that into consideration when pricing to a market or turning over their roster?


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 8:10am
His figures sit a little above al Maher who never had the same opportunity and can be had for not much more than the gst component of snitzel.

Snitzel however is a sales ring darling.


Posted By: Hazyview
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 9:12am
That's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it - you've got to be getting stock (colts and fillies) which appeal to the commercial market, Al Maher is a failure in this sense, especially as his colts need to be gelded!

You would quickly go broke breeding to Al Maher, you'd be ok with Snitzel.


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 9:46am
Al Maher's stud record is quite good, especially when you look at his price.  Not in Snitzel's class though.

As for opportunity, they both started at a similar fee.  Al Maher got larger books early on.


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Hazyview Hazyview wrote:

That's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it - you've got to be getting stock (colts and fillies) which appeal to the commercial market, Al Maher is a failure in this sense, especially as his colts need to be gelded!

You would quickly go broke breeding to Al Maher, you'd be ok with Snitzel.



Yes as I said snitzel is a sales ring darling

No blinkers


Posted By: Hazyview
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Originally posted by Hazyview Hazyview wrote:

That's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it - you've got to be getting stock (colts and fillies) which appeal to the commercial market, Al Maher is a failure in this sense, especially as his colts need to be gelded!

You would quickly go broke breeding to Al Maher, you'd be ok with Snitzel.



Yes as I said snitzel is a sales ring darling

No blinkers

Because he produces what the market wants. Al Maher does not. They have similar 'results' but the make up of those results is very different which leads to the difference in the sales ring.

It's not the sales ring hyping up Snitzel, more the fact that he produces what this country wants. I think saying 'sales ring darling' is doing him a disservice, that's all.


Posted By: lotto7
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Hazyview Hazyview wrote:

Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Originally posted by Hazyview Hazyview wrote:

That's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it - you've got to be getting stock (colts and fillies) which appeal to the commercial market, Al Maher is a failure in this sense, especially as his colts need to be gelded!

You would quickly go broke breeding to Al Maher, you'd be ok with Snitzel.



Yes as I said snitzel is a sales ring darling

No blinkers

Because he produces what the market wants. Al Maher does not. They have similar 'results' but the make up of those results is very different which leads to the difference in the sales ring.

It's not the sales ring hyping up Snitzel, more the fact that he produces what this country wants. I think saying 'sales ring darling' is doing him a disservice, that's all.


Have to agree with brad here as I think Snitzel is a sales ring darling on the back of results. He is producing the same type of horse that he was earlier in his career but struggled a bit and hence the price drop in service fees. Then came the results and the success in the ring followed. The type has not changed at all just that people will now buy them in the ring because of the results he has had on the track. Don't believe sales ring darling is doing the horse a disservice at all. He is a good stallion, gets results and his progeny is popular in the sales ring.


Posted By: Lordy
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 7:33pm
I was going into bat for Snitzel in this thread.  Even so I can't understand why the market went nutso for his stock at the sales last week.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 10:50pm
Had a Group 1 winner
In Hong Kong today.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 9:13am
With Umatilla in the pedigree he's inbred to Dancing Show 4 f x 3m.  Interesting to see that one he beat in maiden in Australia (Winston's Lad) has also made his way to Hong Kong and is also a winner there.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2016 at 9:44am
He has had a very good month of February with a dual HKG1 winner and a G2 & G3 winners in Sydney. Plus four other stakes placed.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 11:49am
This boy has started this season flying.  Three stakes winners in two weeks and lots of stakes placed also.  If he can get one or two of his three year olds up over a distance (something which has happened previously) he could go close to winning this season.  Likewise I am Invincible has commence with good results.  So two stalilons who have been selling exceptionally well have come out firing for the purchases.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 11:50am
buyers might of been a better word as I left the er off anyway!


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 1:11pm
Had a group winner in Japan over the weekend also .


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 1:34pm
Over $900,000AUS to the winner for that G3 in Japan.  Boy they race for some big prizes.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 12:30pm


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reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 2:10pm
It nice to know the little boys can make the grade.  You don't have to be a big big boy.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 3:06pm
Golly he has made the grade alright !Clap

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animals before people.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 5:47pm
His stats as a broodmare sire are quiet freakish also .


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 5:52pm
Brick sh1thouses come in all sizes.  Wink


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2017 at 4:19pm
Snitzel just had 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the G1 Sires.


Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2017 at 5:30pm
As well as Diddums in G3 Fillies Stakes.

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Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2017 at 10:13pm
Conceivably only Street cry stands in the way of a clean sweep in the prize money tables for the year .


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 9:35am
Snitzel also had a G1 winner overnight in South Africa.  Heavenly Blue won the S A Classic G1 over 1800m by 2 3/4 len.  A Fastnet Rock colt was also placed 3rd.


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 2:43pm
He is on fire, isnt he.  What a wonderful little horse for the Aust breeding industry.
Long may he reign Clap


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animals before people.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 2:47pm

HEAVENLY BLUE (AUS)
Brown colt 2013 
Snitzel
Bay 2002
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Brown 1987
Bletchingly
Jesmond Lass
1970
1975
7-a
14>
Dancing Show
Bay 1983
Nijinsky
Show Lady
1967
1976
8-f
8-f
Snippets' Lass
Bay 1993
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Chestnut 1970
Silly Season
Great Occasion
1962
1965
1-g
7-f
Easy Date
Bay 1977
Grand Chaudiere
Scampering
1968
1970
19-b
20-a
Snow Finch
Bay 1984
Storm Bird
Bay 1978
Northern Dancer
South Ocean
1961
1967
2-d
4-j
A Realgirl
Bay 1976
In Reality
Secret Verdict
1964
1966
21-a
2-c
Simply Carina
Grey 2007
El Prado
Grey 1989
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Lady Capulet
Grey 1974
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Cap and Bells
Grey 1958
Tom Fool
Ghazni
1949
1942
3-j
1-l
Astra
Bay 1996
Theatrical
Bay or brown 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Tree of Knowledge
Bay 1977
Sassafras
Sensibility
1967
1971
8-c
3-h
Savannah Slew
Bay or brown 1982
Seattle Slew
Bay or brown 1974
Bold Reasoning
My Charmer
1968
1969
1-k
13-c
Pilferer
Bay 1968
No Robbery
Will Hail
1960
1963
19-b
9-b
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5m x 4m,5m Specialx 5f,5m


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 6:04pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2017 at 4:02pm
He's probably caught next weekend.  Will need another 600,000 or 700,000 to stay ahead of Street Cry when Winx wins the Queen Elizabeth.  Could catch up again the next week with the Champagne but may be caught by the mighty mare.


Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 11:29am
$176,000 a go. 




Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 1:26pm
He's back to within $70,000 of leading the sire's premiership again.  Should take the lead again today.


Posted By: Tlazolteotl
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 1:48pm
Has he got the worst name of any super sire ever?


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 10:51pm
10k behind Street Cry now .


Posted By: Sir Gov
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 10:58pm
its all over - will be a deserved winner too


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 11:32am
Is he

300 runners street cry 169

Its a numbers game


Posted By: MichaelM
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Is he

300 runners street cry 169

Its a numbers game


Take out each horses' top earner, and Snitzel beats Street Cry by over $5.2 million.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 6:59pm
just to show how close this is Street Cry moves infront again - just.


Posted By: bradjm
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 9:37am
Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Is he

300 runners street cry 169

Its a numbers game


Take out each horses' top earner, and Snitzel beats Street Cry by over $5.2 million.



So it becomes 299 runners to 168 runners


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 4:38pm
Snitzel 21 Stakes Winners from 300 runners
Stree Cry 9 Stakes Winners from 169 runners certainly a numbers game , his numbers by percentages are better regardless of the larger numbers .


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 7:19pm
Sire standings are over.  Snitzel pretty well won it today.  Three brand new stakes winners the Doomben 10,000 and a few other placings.  He's having a very good stakes season.  He will lead the two year olds, three year olds and Sire's standings.  Pretty much unbeatable in any class from here on till the end of the season.


Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 9:01pm
And what a result for Redzel's dam Millrich, a Group 3 winner herself.  Produced the stakes-winner and under-rated stallion Danerich in 2002 as a 10yo, and ten years later drops Redzel at age 20.  Thumbs Up


Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 11:40pm
really like Danerich as a stallion S.C. Performing very well at the price.

-------------
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 20 May 2017 at 2:23pm
Unless he did it while I was away he's just broken the two year old winners record also.  Big season for Snitzel.


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 20 May 2017 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Unless he did it while I was away he's just broken the two year old winners record also.  Big season for Snitzel.


What was that record and who held it ?

I remember for a long time Without Fear held it with something like 35 individual winners, I suspect that is nowhere in the ball park these days.




-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 5:47pm
Not sure what the record was but I think Without Fear held it until now  ??
Could be wrong tho ?


-------------
animals before people.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:35pm
Snitzel had equalled it a few seasons ago - the record was 30 two year old winners - but now has broken it.  Only an Australian record.  Some overseas sires have had more two year winners in a season.


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:37pm
Also up till this time 53 individual horses by him have got black type this season.  Next best is 27 by one sire for the year.  Sure his books were large but there are plenty of others with big books.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 23 May 2017 at 8:25pm
Brought up winner no 32 today just shy of 10 months into the season , so very reakistic he can push for 43 which would be a world record .


Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 1:46pm


-------------
reductio ad absurdum


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 4:40pm
Well he's just set a record for prizemoney for the season.  Ended up almost $2,000,000 in front.


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 2:14pm
Unstoppable , he seems to love Roberto line , and partial to a cross of Success Express as i think Perast has SE in his page Shamus Award and Mossfun in reverse and thoughts Furious on why? Not throwing many stakes winners to Danehill inbreeding , but Snippets seems to cross ok also up close ?


Posted By: Gee Gee
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 3:46pm

What are Snitzel's stats as a broodmare sire?



Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 4:18pm
It's probably not the Roberto line Goldey.  His best have been very varied but he has shown a liking for Storm Bird who appears in Domesday and then you have the Domesday/Redoute's female line cross.

Also Baldric sire of Without Fear has appeared a few times not always through Without Fear who of course is in General Nediym and there we have Menari and Sizzling (dam inbred to Without Fear ect.  

Fairy King has come up a few times including through Encosta in Summer Passage and through Falbrav in Spill the Beans ect.

Blushing Groom appears in Hot Snitzel and Russian Revolution ect.

Sir Tristram is in Flying Snitzel, Time for War, Dances on Stars and Amorino etc.

Now the obvious is Star Kingdom he is in Amorino, Flying Snitzel, Menari, Redzel, Snitzerland, Trapeze Artist, Jukebox, French Emotion etc.



Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

What are Snitzel's stats as a broodmare sire?


Pretty good ,Gee Gee , apart from Mossfun He has Motown Lil , an up and comers in Good Oh and Bye See He also had one in Saturdays Filly's 2yo, Now or Never 4th not many flops most are not without any ability imho. Probably has had less than 40 runners as a broody sire .


Posted By: goldey
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 12:04am
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

It's probably not the Roberto line Goldey.  His best have been very varied but he has shown a liking for Storm Bird who appears in Domesday and then you have the Domesday/Redoute's female line cross.<div id="UMS_TOOLTIP" style=": ; cursor: pointer; : 2147483647; : transparent; top: -100000px; left: -100000px;">

Also Baldric sire of Without

Fear has appeared a few times not always through Without Fear who of course is in General Nediym and there we have Menari and Sizzling (dam inbred to Without Fear ect.  

Fairy King has come up a few times including through Encosta in Summer Passage and through Falbrav in Spill the Beans ect.

Blushing Groom appears in Hot Snitzel and Russian Revolution ect.

Sir Tristram is in Flying Snitzel, Time for War, Dances on Stars and Amorino etc.

Now the obvious is Star Kingdom he is in Amorino, Flying Snitzel, Menari, Redzel, Snitzerland, Trapeze Artist, Jukebox, French Emotion etc.


Thanks Furious, I noticed the Storm Bird duplication is successful is it true that SB is great for ironing out leg issues ?


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 9:40am
Asking the wrong person Goldey.  I'm pedigree researcher only.  


Posted By: Nostradamus II
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 10:47am
According to RISA Snitzel had 167 foals, 53 starters for 24 winners and 1 stakes winner. AEI 2.67

-------------
https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/" rel="nofollow - https://sites.google.com/site/cosmosthoroughbredpedigrees/


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 11:34am
Bit out of date that figure.  But it is true in that Snitzel didn't start off as the Champion Sire we see today.  He started with good winners, city winners but the stakes winners took a little to develop double figures.  Yes he started at a figure far less than the one he stands at today but he forced that figure with the numbers he has sired over the last three or four seasons.  Highlighted of course by his all round sire standing wins last season.  The fact is he is only just into the third month of a new season and has 11 stakes winners including a new G1 winner.  That is pretty well unheard of.  He already has had 18 stakes horses for the couple of months run so far.  Yes the Everest is going to have a big say on the Sires List this year but if one of the overseas horses wins I give Snitzel a couple of months and he could be back on top.  

Yes Winx has her big race coming up but Street Cry is on 1 stakes winner for the year.  Winx can carry him so far.

Fastnet Rock is a big challenger this season with 7 stakes winners already.  He is standing on 12 black type horses so far in the season which is also well above average.  But on both the class of the stakes winners and numbers so far Snitzel has his nose in front.  Not that there are plenty of G1 class horses in Fastnet Rocks corner which could push him up over the next few months and if Deploy wins the Everest then even Snitzel will not recover to catch him.

I am Invincible is another with an outstanding first couple of months with 5 stakes winners and 9 black type performers.  Considering this has been off a class of mare which Fastnet Rock has never ever seen and Snitzel got in his early years does say this boy is also in a class of his own.  He also has a runner in the Everest but I really don't see her winning but stranger things have happened in racing.

Enosta de Lago has without a doubt a top chance of winning the everest but with only $446K against his name for the season as long as Redzel pick's up some prizemoney Snitzel would still be close on his heels.

While Not a Single Doubt is sitting on just under 1/2 what Snitzel has for the season and has two runners in the Everest.  Yes a big lift for either to win but who knows.

So this season one race stands between another sure win for Snitzel.  We'll know after the 14th.


Posted By: linghi11
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 12:10pm
Realistically, the Everest shouldn't count towards stallion tables being such a restricted event.

-------------
to the victor


Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 12:48pm
Then you have to take out the MM and Inglis series races.  It's restricted only that you have to be a superior sprinter to win it.  Nothing wrong in trying to even up the prizemoney field that way.  Sprinters on the whole are our best horses and run for less every bit race.  But it will effect the result unless you have a Champion Sire on fire.  At the moment Snitzel is on fire so it remains to be seen if it ends up effecting his results.



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