ARTIE SCHILLER & HUSSONET
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Forum Name: Stallions
Forum Description: Stallion appraisals and trends
URL: https://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=10
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 9:14pm
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Topic: ARTIE SCHILLER & HUSSONET
Posted By: willy
Subject: ARTIE SCHILLER & HUSSONET
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 9:08pm
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Even though he's a long shot for this region .. BREEDERS CUP turf mile winner and all .. what is he likely to stand at? ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Replies:
Posted By: Grey Way
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 9:13pm
$22k
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Posted By: ilalastud
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 9:18pm
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$22,000 a shot I believe.
He seems to be a capable horse, and he ran on turf, so that ticks one box doesn't it?
One of his family has already stood out here - Prince True, got a couple of Stakeswinners.
He goes up against the Darley Vic horses, Don't know whether that is a plus for him or will be a tough ask.
I know the name means little (a rose by any other name....) but it grates on me a bit, for some strange unknown reason. Maybe I should seek professional help.
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Posted By: equinegal
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 9:28pm
| For a first season sire, IMO it seems a bit steep at $20K. Time will tell I suppose. |
Posted By: Can Of Worms
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 9:47pm
An interesting assessment of him on the old forum as a dirt tracker Willy. I have only looked at 9 out of 10 of his wins and they were all on the turf ... I can only assume the 10th was on the turf also. What does he need to do to be considered a turf horse? 
Set an 1800m turf course record at Belmont running 1:45.50 which is phenominally fast. Alsn ran 1:34.10 over 1600m on the turf as a 2yo.
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Posted By: Mel_
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 10:35pm
| Fee's a bit steep considering he stands for US$15k, and the AUS$22k equates to US$17,300! Glad to see a son of El Prado here though, and he was a quality horse, be interesting to see how he is received by mare owners. |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 10:55pm
| He's from an active gr1 family and has got to be a chance, but not for me. |
Posted By: kingston
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2007 at 11:17pm
He was named after a family friend by his owners, the Entenmanns - who were famed, amongst other things, for the Seinfeld episode where Peterman buys a famous piece of cake.
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ilalastud wrote:Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2007 at 1:25am
COW .. I searched the RACING POST race record of this horse and he was only recorded for 3 or 4 turf starts. You might be right which would put a different light on him because his times in 2 or 3 other races [which were not recorded as turf] were fast.
Particularly the 1.45 over 9f as you rightly point out.
Possibly you can clarify.
I could live with EL PRADO because he is undoubtedly an upgrader in the USA .. and his 34% turf earnings is well adequate.
His damsire gives me the screamers for downunder .. and ARTIE didn't possess a decent turn of foot which is so much important for here.
He was a real grinder suited to USA conditions. Go out hard .. and keep at it. He was often in or on the lead 200 out and would stick like glue.
At $22k I would suggest that he is risky downunder. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Can Of Worms
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2007 at 2:26am
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Willy, the Racing Post is great for European racing however you might find the Thoroughbred Times stallion directory or Stallion Register a better source for North American racing.
His pedigree suggests that he might not throw fast maturers, but that doesn't bother me, although the $22,000 would be a discouragement for a horse that potentially won't throw what the yearling market wants.
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Posted By: ilalastud
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2007 at 4:36am
| You could always ask for a small discount. The worst they will say is no. |
Posted By: Can Of Worms
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2007 at 5:47am
With a "student discount" I'd give him a go! 
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Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2007 at 5:08pm
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Willy, You are a mile off on Artie Schiller as a racehorse which is typical and unsurprising seeing once again you have made your learned assessment off incomplete data.
Artie Schiller made 22 lifetime starts and earned just over US$2m. He started as a 2yo in July up here which is the middle of summer (equivalent of a March 2yo in Australia/NZ) on TURF over 6f at Belmont no less. He came from 10th position, 8 lengths from the lead at the top of the straight to win by a long neck. The clock stopped at 1:10.5
He started next on the dirt where he finished 3rd to future SW Readthefootnotes after being caught three wide most of the way. They returned him back over a mile on the turf and he won that in1:34.00 at Belmont (as a two year old no less). He then ran back in a Listed stake race on the turf towards the end of the season where he came from off the speed to be beaten 2 1/4 lengths into second. They closed out his two year old year with a run on the dirt, where he was a well beaten 4th.
At three he had one more start on the dirt and failed. His next 15 starts were all on the turf. He won the Breeders' Cup Mile defeating Valixir, Ad Valorem, Gorella, Leroidesanimaux, etc, when he won the Jamaica G2 he set a new course record for the 1 1/8 miles at Belmont Park in 1:45.50 (he carried top weight and won by 5 1/4) and met and beat some of the best horses in North America on the biggest days. Importantly, the only time he ever finished worse than 4th in a race was when he got hammered in the BC Mile in 2004 and never took part. 21 of 22 starts he finished in the first four home.
There are other reasons why I think he is not suited to Australia but to suggest that he wasn't up to it as a racehorse is asinine. ------------- Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory... |
Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 12:00am
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Naughty boy BYRON ... as usual.
Firstly .. I made it clear to COW that the RACING POST records only had him down for 3 or 4 starts on the turf .. and following his or her post I sought further clarification of that while clearly acknowledging that if the 1.45 and a tick was on the turf at 9f then it was certainly a fair achievement.
Secondly .. in most of his later racestarts he was in or on the lead at the 1f or 2f mark in most of his races.
Thirdly .. his 2yo form was at the lower level compared with his career best in the BREEDERS CUP mile on turf in 1.36.1 on a yielding track.
Fourthly .. he is a far better chance of making it downunder than SOUTHERN IMAGE.
The latter is probably worth $2k of mine on a very clever mating .. while ARTIE is probably worth about $8k to $10k. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 11:39am
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Willy,
Im happy to be classified as "naughty" rather than "misinformed". I will leave the latter category to you.
 Based on your judgement Southern Image is in good company...the same judgement that said current leading freshman sire Hussonet was "no hope" and the same judgement that never sent a mare to Redoute's Choice or Zabeel.....but thought Anziyan was the answer.  ------------- Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory... |
Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 4:05pm
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Yes .. ANZIYAN "was the answer" because for very little money I produced possibly the best 3yo in SINGAPORE before he broke his leg.
Much better than paying $100k or $275k for some slomo by these other stallions who leave their share ..
.. and trying to compete against the studs who sold me the nomination while using every 'sales side' trick that is common to them.
I avoid those studs for that reason.
As for HUSSONET .. he will never achieve an AEI better than his CI in this region. That is a certainty.
But he will be well promoted and over-perceived by a somewhat gullible market .. and by those who are up the bum of those standing him.
------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 4:48pm
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You're moving the goal posts, Willy. I'm sure you said Hussonet would flat out struggle here. Not his AEI will never be better than his CI. Smells like someone's covering their a#se...
You know...it's ok to be wrong...we all make mistakes. However you'll never learn if you fail to accept when you've made a mistake.
Unlike you, Willy, most people in this industry understand that you can never know all there is to know. You can never be 100 per cent certain of any decision you make.
Those people will enjoy increasing success with persistence while you continue along your 'fool-proof' model...sending mares to brothers of champion sires because it's cheaper and their yearlings will be in sales where 'big studs' don't frequent. Or because you can 'lease' them to owners who race horses on the very competitive Singapore circuit.
Good luck with that
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Posted By: Can Of Worms
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 6:45pm
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Byron, what are the reasons you don't think he is suited in Australia? His turf credentials are good. He himself, as we know, was an top grade turf horse, he is by one of the leading turf sires in the USA, his dam won a GR2 on the turf and his granddam won two GR1's and a GR2 on the turf. Additionally his genetic background looks, at first glance, like it should suit a good percentage of the Australian broodmare population.
Interested in your thoughts.
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 7:54pm
No CHAMP .. I very seldom get it "wrong" and in HUSSONET's case I'm very confident.
Even you will appreciate that a dog sire can leave a high class horse. Even 2.
In HUSSONETS case he will be rather like the MONTJEU's & FU PEGS of the local scene where reality will arrive in time to show that many good mares were wasted on stallions not suited to this region but in some cases the progeny have fallen sufficiently to the damside to cover up the weaknesses of the sire.
HUSSONET was always going to leave the odd good nag .. because fortunately for him .. they all have mothers .. very good mothers. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 8:04pm
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I'm indifferent to whether Hussonet will be a commercial success here or not. But I think "even you" can concede he has kicked off his Aussie career in better fashion than Fusaichi Pegasus and Montjeu...
Agreed he has had a fantastic start in life considering the quality of mare. But I have seen some fantastic yearlings by him out of the most ordinary mares you will see. As well as great types out of stakes performed mares. As you say more time is needed to see whether he fits in or not, and I too was weary as an older stallion arriving on our shores, but you must say he has made a healthy start...
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Posted By: Kilroy
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2007 at 9:26pm
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Hussonets here are only 2yo's -and 2yo form can be rather meaningless.Only a small percentage make it to the races at 2-yet many get asked to.
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Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 4:31am
| Hussonet has done very well for the first half of the 2yo season and Montjeu did not. There is no comparison between the two. |
Posted By: brogers
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 4:47am
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Champ
Despite the press release describing him as a fantastic type, I am less than enthused about him. His sire is a glorious looking horse, built like a brick outhouse which is so atypical for a Sadler's Wells but Artie looks nothing like him. He is tall and angular much more like his broodmare sire Majestic Light.....which is where I get worried. Catrail wasn't a typical Storm Cat to look at and threw tall angluar horses much like the Majestic Light's and if you look at Majestic Light's record as a broodmare sire of sires it leaves a lot to be desired. It is enough to worry me given the requirements for racing in Australia.
You also made the comment on Hussonet.....
What makes you think he got a fantastic start given the quality of mare? He stood his first season for $20,000 and was a long way down the totem pole at Arrowfield when it came to the quality of mare that he got from Arrowfield alone. Remember Redoute's Choice, Flying Spur, Danzero, Dehere, French Deputy and Orientate all stood for more than him at the same farm. I'd label the quality good, but far from fantastic in his first season. ------------- Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy...Carrick...Ivictory... |
Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 6:09am
| Fantastic was probably too much...but a better start than most due to his results in Americas... |
Posted By: Buck
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 6:39am
| The jury's out for Hussonet......I have been watching a couple, including a $500K colt at randwick & although he looks a type, he 's showing little on the track..... The trainer is saying that he's glad an owner fronted up with it & that he didn't buy for a client....... Could just need more time .....???? |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 6:39pm
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Colin
You say that "HUSSONET was always going to leave the odd good nag .. because fortunately for him .. they all have mothers .. very good mothers."
Hussonet's best performer to date - Husson Lightning ($346,500 earnings) - is out of Snip Snip, a 1000m maiden winner at Murrumbidgee who never made it to town. There isn't a Group 1 performance in Husson Lightning's 1st 3 dams !
Brazen Hussey who won at Pakenham last week only cost $55k as a yearling and is a half-sister to a couple of Listed winners but again there isn't even a Group winner in her first 3 dams.
Another winner Canitellya made $72k as a yearling. These are hardly blue-blood prices or mares so your argument that his mares are carrying him is rubbish. Just let it go.
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 7:40pm
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PETER .. you of all people should know that early 2yo form in respect of trying to assess a stallions future can be very misleading. Many of these horses are not high class and do not train on. A lower performed SNIPPETS mare is not to be sneezed at and is probably very much the reason for this 'nag' having the speed to measure up here on firmer turf as an early 2 year old.
While I am highly confident that HUSSONET will not measure up to his overall mare opportunity, given time, and that the market will pay excessively for the sometimes good looking progeny [personally I don't mind the look of him] ..
.. honestly ..
.. while I don't generally like your stallion selection [or influences of] .. I do rate your half brother EKRAAR as a better chance downunder even though the mares he will have covered will be quite inferior to HUSSONETS.
I'm predicting EKRAAR to be doing it hard in the marketplace in years 2,3 and 4 .. and I can see a latent revival for him when his stock show some class over 1600m & beyond at 4 plus.
HUSSONET, I predict, will have a new home by then. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 9:23pm
Aren't the Snippets' mud larks? I thought the Lunchtime line loved the wet. Maybe you know something different Willy...
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Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 at 11:38pm
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Aren't the Snippets' mud larks? I thought the Lunchtime line loved the wet. Maybe you know something different Willy...
Rubbish. The majority of Lunchtimes Sons progeny perform on all surfaces and their winners to runners ratio on fast and good tracks is superior to slow and heavy. Track Condition Stats for Snippets Fast 126 22 18 14 Good 3432 509 432 382 Dead 721 100 106 62 Slow 364 52 40 50 Heavy 276 35 31 41 Sand 0 0 0 0 0.0 Total 4919 718 627 549 14.6 Whilst that's not vastly superior,other sire sons like Integra have a 2 for 60 record for starters on Heavy. Hardly a love of the wet.... Source http://www.virtualformguide.com/stallions.shtml  ------------- I don't have one |
Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2007 at 12:11am
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Using your statistics, Snippets has an overall winners to runners percentage of 14.6% and placegetters to runners of 38.5%.
On rain effected tracks his win and place percentages are as follows:
Dead: 13.9% and 37.2%
Slow: 14.3% and 39%
Heavy:12.7% and 38.8%
As you can see, his stats on ran-effected tracks are more than comparable to his stats on firm tracks and overall.
You can draw no conclusion from these stats that states Snippets will help a mud lark produce firm track performers.
As you said, Integra's stats are 2 out of 60 (3.3%) on a heavy track. When you compare that to Snippets' stats of 35 out of 276 (12.7%), you can clearly see that Snippets' progeny were more than effective on rain effected ground.
In fact I challenge you to find the average percentage for a sire on wet tracks and compare it to Snippets. I would happily bet that Snippets' figures are superior to the average and, naturally, that of most stallions in Australia.
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2007 at 1:55am
Thanks for that BAGMAN.
Correct .. good on most tracks depending on their damsides and how they have "thrown". ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2007 at 3:29pm
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Theres a BIG difference between all round quality and sweeping 'mud lark' statements. Or is Lunchtime/Snippets the only sire represented in those matings?
Anyways requested the great mud lark Danehill..... Track Condition Stats Fast 64 4 4 7 6.3 Good 3847 555 471 394 14.4 Dead 960 146 110 104 15.2 Slow 379 48 40 38 12.7 Heavy 204 21 26 26 10.3 Sand 0 0 0 0 0.0 Total 5454 774 651 569 14.2 ------------- I don't have one |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 4:51pm
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Colin You conveniently missed my point. Husson Lightning is a horse of Gr1 quality from a family that isn't. Sure as a damsire Snippets contributes but has only roughly half the influence of Husson Lightning's sire. It's early days to make a judgement I agree but that also means it's early days to write him off as not capable of upgrading his mares. Ekraar will leave a variety of aptitudinal types based on his foals and I have seen more than most. He's a very different type to Hussonet but then so was Fairway to Pharos and Fairy King to SW. He may not enjoy a "Postponed-like" start but he will make his presence felt before a few expect him too.
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 7:12pm
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PETER .. good luck with EKRAAR.
You are overdue for a good one.
Also .. congratulations to DAVID BENJAMIN on his selection of POSTPONED into NZ. I just hope that his stock continue as they have started because NZ is desperately short of Australasian quality stallions.
Fortunately .. the introduction of AI will solve that.
 Furthermore .. one early performing 2yo does little to convince me that a new stallion might be one thing or the other.
HUSSONET will be nothing like he was in CHILE. The cracks will show in them as late 2 .. and definitely 3. That is my prediction .. and I'm confident.  ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 7:18pm
Colin
As usual you are the bearer of mis-information. I selected Postponed for purchase by Michael Tololi and Gary Hackett. David Benjamin was then invited to stand the horse and take a share in his ownership which I'm glad to say he did. Your credibility takes yet another blow.
Can you explain why "we I am overdue for a good one" ? Would have thought Postponed might have satisfied you on that one. BTW our other 6 stallions are yet to have runners down here yet. hard to have SWs without runners, but I guess you overlooked that little sticking point.
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 8:37pm
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PETER .. great to see you taking the credit on this stallion who was shown at his best just prior to Xmas. I have noted at times that when things don't seem to be so favourable for your stud that it was MIKE's choice and not yours.
Oh well .. I guess we will have to take your word for it.
Anyway .. please pass on my regards to DAVID BENJAMIN for a job well done in those first couple of years.
Now while we are at it old son .. I actually think that POSTPONED won't measure up much in AUSTRALIA because already we have seen his best one NATURO breaking down .. and his November GUINEAS winner seems to have gone off the boil.
Is that partial dirt blood getting to them on the summer tracks .. or should we put it down to just a bit of bad luck??
WILLY.
p.s. Please tell us about all of the other "great" stallions you were instrumental into bringing into NZ over your many years in this industry. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 10:12pm
I never once said I was responsible for bringing any "great" stallions into NZ. That's you putting words in my mouth. The first stallion I selected for a client was Victory Dance. He finished runner-up on the NZ Sires Premiership one year, has left a Gr1 winner and never stood for more than $4500. Hardly a failure.
The next stallion I selected was Chief Bearhart, sire of NZ Filly of the Year Shikoba. The one after that was Postponed. I'm proud of those horses. Which stallions are you proud you put your reputation behind ??? I'm not holding my breath.
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Posted By: Champ!
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 10:28pm
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Fair question from Peter Jenkins there old Willy.
Tell us all about the stallions you've either imported or secured locally for stallion duties...I'd like to pass judgement.
I presume Peter Jenkins is a reputable fellow and I admire those who have a go. Furthermore it appears he has enjoyed success.
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Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 11:05pm
Whatever happened to people I have worked for long after I left is nothing to do with me. Again you are trying to fling s**t where it can't stick. Anyone who knows the NZ industry inside out is well aware of how far off the mark you are regarding Brett Jenkins and Craig Ivil.
Arthur Williams - lets see. i was there for 8 months and he sold up 9 years later but somehow I'm responsible for this sad man's demise. Hey I also sank the Rainbow Warrior and was involved in the Kennedy plot ! Never got him a stallion either.
Ammo - what a joke. I'm a doer. You're a wannabee. Simple really.
I also challenge you to call David Benjamin this afternoon and ask him yourself if he's pleased with the return he's getting from Postponed. Please report back when you have done so. If you need his number then email me and I will provide it. He was only telling me at a BBQ 4 days ago how thrilled he was to be involved with the horse. Failure to come back with a truthful answer on this one will brand you as a liar for the umpteenth time.
And lastly a completely empty allegation. No names of people, studs, horses. Funny how your memory is so bad when it's convenient. If that's what i said then it's the truth. If you are implying that I haven't told the truth then you should produce evidence. Michael Tololi and any other clients for that matter still buy horses without consulting me and that's their prerogative. I don't claim credit for those I'm not involved with nor DO I claim credit for those I'm not. I called you a liar in the last post and until you can produce something other than empty allegations you remain a liar.
If we do have a new stallion I can't wait for you to bag him because according to many I have spoken with in the industry in the past few months the moment you criticise a horse they are convinced it's worth a crack.
We are still waiting for the list of successful stallions you have put your name and career behind or are you really just a wannabee ?
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 1:37am
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PETER JENKINS ..
Of the stallion line up at STONEY BRIDGE .. I have a modest regard for EKRAAR which will struggle at a commercial level and the smaller breeders will get the 'bash' ..
.. while I believe that POSTPONED was at a career best just prior to XMAS and will end up not much better than a bread & butter sire that will struggle under AUSTRALIAN conditions.
STORM CREEK left vermon looking things at the yearling sales .. and his staff live in fear of this bad natured son of STORM CAT ..
.. while STORMING HOME is a N/H hand me down who is no longer supported by his owners.
But add to that the news that you've got a son of ROYAL ACADEMY coming to NZ .. this does not surprise me at all. He is an appreciable downgrader.
Oh .. and I forgot MR NACHO which is entirely unsuited to this region .. and the slomo HAWKEYE who is most unlike his old man HAWKEYE.
ST REIMS is a chance but I doubt you had much input there.
And yes .. I confirm that a racehorse of MIKE's was advised by you to be his choice and that you had no input. And no .. I don't have the time or inclination to find that internet cop-out of yours.
------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Agatha
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 2:57am
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I've been watching for some time and you seem to have an opinion on
everything, which is fine, but you are so emphatic about everything and
I think you need to show cause why this is the case. If you breed a
couple of stakes horses in New Zealand, so what, if you sell a few for
profit overseas, big deal, you are not on your pat malone there
sunshine. I asked you specifically about stallions. Have you ever stood stallions, have you worked on a farm with stallions?, have you ever imported a stallion and invested your own hard earned. These are simple questions I'm not asking to be smart, I just want an answer, because I think for you to carry on in such dogmatic fashion, and to character assasinate those brave enough to do so is pretty piss poor in my book (pardon my french) So please Willy, no more ducking and diving, can you provide a straight answer to these simple questions. |
Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 3:40am
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AGATHA .. my straight answer to you is that unless you've got something interesting to add to each of the discussions at hand .. be they informed .. a guess .. or otherwise ..
.. then it would probably be best for you to hold your breath before going into print and making a fool of yourself.
For your privileged information ..
I am a self sufficient BREEDER, OWNER, PUNTER & TRAINER.
And yes .. I am very politically active on issues involving the introduction of AI .. a CODE OF ETHICS .. and many other governance aspects of our industry.
I don't have much time for fools. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: ilalastud
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 3:55am
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Standing a stallion, working with stallions, importing stallions, does not make you any better a breeder. It does not give you some special insight into the breeding world. You try to offer something that breeders will spend their money on. It is probably more an exercise in human psychology. If you just wanted good genetics, there would be alot more unraced stallions.
The absolute majority of breeders out there would go weak at the knees if presented with a stallion shank, and pointed toward the beast. So the ability to work a stallion adds nothing to the value of your opinion, unless you opine on stallion handling.
Willy's expressions of opinion might not agree with my view of the world at all times, but I am very glad he can express those opinions, and that those opinions can be opposed with equal vigour.
I couldn't give a toss if he has never felt the stallion's hooves whistle past his ears, or put his shoulder to the mare. It doesn't make his opinion less valuable.
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Posted By: Bagman
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:09am
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I'm confused...". while I believe that POSTPONED was at a career best just prior to XMAS and will end up not much better than a bread & butter sire that will struggle under AUSTRALIAN conditions." ...so Peters guilty of selecting stallions that suit their surrounds/country.
He helps select stallions to stand in NZ and he's guilty of importing suitable horses? 
Cop the tip willy, if you guys start breeding neddies suitable to firm tracks and 1000mts you're gone. Besides where would we get our 'stayers' from?  ------------- I don't have one |
Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:29am
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I get your point BAGMAN .. but as you know .. we've seen many stallions in the past who come out guns blazing in their first crop and then the wheels fall off.
FU PEG a prime example.
The level of racing in NZ is at times inferior to AUSTRALIA .. and unless the POSTPONED's can produce a few gooduns in your region .. then yes .. he will become just a domestic product ..
.. a bread & butter sire. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Agatha
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 5:00am
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Ilala, You are missing the point, i'm not arguing his position to question or have an opinion, i'm challenging his credibility. I'll give you an example If I was to say that your farm is doomed because you have a lot of rubbish stallions that nobody likes, and as such, are forced to resort to cheap gimmicks to fill your books, what would it prove. This may or may not be true but at least you've got the balls to have a go and at least you're showing initiative and backing your ability....I admire that even if I don't agree with your model. At least you are financing this operation and are fully aware and culpable for all your decision making. Willy, looks to be an armchair critic, happy to sit on his backside and fight for unwinnable causes while all the time destroying the reputations and work of others. He doesn't like Peter Jenkins.... so what. If he was a man he would treat him like everyone elso and pass commentary on his horses and then move on. Instead he tries to belittle and destroy his credibility at every opportunity. There is nothing to admire about this, it is the work of a small minded person. I just think that Willy carries on like New Zealand's version of John Messara, the only difference is that John Messara has been responsible for shuttling Danehill and standing Redoutes Choice, Flying Spur Danzero etc and Willy has bred a couple of stakes horses and traded a bit to Singapore......the difference is so huge it's embarrassing, yet even though Messara is very vocal about the industry, you don't see him carrying on like an absolute imbecile. Willy's volume and level of authority just don't stack up..... |
Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 5:36am
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With due respect Agatha, no-one has a requirement to justify themselves, or demonstrate their experience or bona-fides, on the Forums.
Sometimes Willy makes a great case, other times perhaps not. Just like you or I perhaps.
However the reality in all this is that everyone is entitled to express opinions with or without reasoning, and it's for others to make their own judgements as to the validity of those opinions. But importantly imo, no-one needs to have necessarily climbed Mt Everest to express an opinion about the difficulty or otherwise of doing so.
------------- It's hard to soar with eagles... Cheers |
Posted By: ilalastud
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:39am
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No, I dont miss your point. Your basic argument is that Willy lacks credibility. You have attempted to base this lack of credibility on an assumption that Willy has not imported, purchased, stood or worked with stallions himself. That is your contention.
By that logic, does my band of "rubbish stallions" on my "doomed to failure" farm therefore give me more credibility than someone who has not run a farm, or stood stallions?
Does it make me more credible than you for instance? Does it make my opinion worth more than yours?
I agree that pointless sniping at people is not needed in this forum.
But methinks Willy is not alone in the snide remark department, eh Aggie.
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Posted By: Placid Ark
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 8:10am
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Agatha,
Willy is like the many losers in all walks of life who choose to bring down those who 'have a go'. Tall-poppy syndrome is what it's called in Australia.
Instead of having a go themselves, they prefer to complain about everything that is stopping them from achieving their goals.
These people may be entitled to an opinion but, much like a democratic system, imbeciles are at times given the reins
 These people have a common denominator...FAILURE...and we must avoid association at all costs...otherwise we too may declare selling a crock by a failed sire to Singapore as our career highlight...
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 1:30pm
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Wasn't a bad racehorse PLACID ARC .. and just a pity that some form of unidentifiable lowlife associated with the dodgy side of this industry has chosen to hide behind it.
Then again .. that's what we've got .. and it's great fun hunting them down. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:32pm
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As I guessed, a reply utterly lacking in facts and substance which is what we come to expect from you, Willy. At least you have had your opinion which i am grateful for particularly on our stallion lineup because as I said your bagging of any stallion is fast becoming the benchmark for many breeders to seriously consider using such horses. So keep up the good work.
Look you lost the Hussonet bet, so just build a bridge and get over it. We all make mistakes it's just that you believe you're infallible. Some others on this thread have got you pegged. Anyway this thread is supposed to be about Artie Schiller....not you and I
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:14pm
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Mate .. there is no "you & I".
Once AI is introduced into NZ the breeders won't be able to run fast enough to get away from the rubbish & hand-me-downs that you have dragged up from around the globe.
Give my best regards to MIKE.
And .. I just hope that his other investments cover this stallion line up .. not like the other poor studdies who are no longer 'with us'.  ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Anziyan
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:24pm
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Willy,
AI will NEVER be introduced in New Zealand....
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:37pm
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AI is a certainty to be introduced in my lifetime.
I have an 8 page article here sent to me by the BREEDERS ASSOCIATION CEO which well details a 'softened' view to AI's introduction in the not too distant future.
It will either happen voluntarily .. or via the courts. NZTR are presently on notice to deal with the unlawfull ban.
They are well aware that NZ's once great breeding record is being diminished by any number of rubbish stallions that are being brought into NZ by quick buck merchants who have no regard for the longterm future of the breed while taking advantage of a supply & access controlled market.
Many stallions would do a starve under an AI breeding option regime... ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Peter Jenkins
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:40pm
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Willy, you are so funny
Postponed cost his owners $200k to purchase and this year alone he's earned over $1m.......do the math. The other stallions all pay their way too. the day the don't they're out the door. Your knowledge of the commercial stallion business is sadly deficient.
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Posted By: Mrs Doubtfire
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:59pm
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I had been enjoying the new forum so far, but am disappointed to see this thread going down the same path as so many on the old forum - name calling, personal attacks etc.. etc. Come on children, clean it up PLEASE !  ------------- "GOOD ENOUGH" is just not Good Enough. |
Posted By: Placid Ark
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 1:42am
I think you'll find I'm right and it's spelt Placind Ark..
Also, what makes you think I'm from the dodgy side of the industry? Or is that just an attempt to divert attention from your own flaws and lack of character???
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Posted By: Run For Fun
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 2:29am
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Agree with you Mrs D. The thread started very well, but is now going no-where and in its latter stages is a perfect example of why the Torquil's of this world no longer visit the forums.
So guys and girls, and speaking of course as a perfect example of a perfect person who has never made even a single naughty comment in the forums
 , why don't we just close this thread down.And those who want to continue exchanging insults can maybe rent a room or a psych or visit the Chat Room. ------------- It's hard to soar with eagles... Cheers |
Posted By: willy
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 2:45am
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C'mon RUNFER .. you are spoiling my fun. PETER JENKINS and I go back a long way and he's good fun in debate. His "shadows" are even better. ------------- "All the rogues are in the game .. but not everyone in the game is a rogue .. just as 90% of stallions are guilty of downgrading your mares." |
Posted By: Mayor
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 5:26am
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It might be fun for you two, but no-one else is laughing. Can you please use Private Messenger or Email to exchange personal insults? No-one else is at all interested, and it's an insult to you and your country to carry on like such school children. I think my kids are more mature. ------------- Mayor |
Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 5:53pm
| Just read this, he sired more Group winners than any other sire in Aust history? |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 6:29pm
| Artie Schiller??? Or are our wires crossed. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 12:11am
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I am like SC ?? Wires crossed somewhere ??? ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 7:09pm
| Hussonet |
Posted By: Second Chance
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 7:48pm
| He's sired about 15 Oz-bred Group winners. Many Oz-based stallions have sired far more. |
Posted By: acacia alba
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 11:09pm
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How did we get Hussonet in the Artie thread ?????? Even more now. ------------- animals before people. |
Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 12:24pm
| I was reading Willy’s comment on page 2 of this thread. I read an article that said Hussonet had sired more group horses than any other stallion in Aust, possibly there was more to it that explained the circumstances. |
Posted By: djebel
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 12:45pm
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He was a super stallion in South America before Arrowfield imported him. http://www.stallions.com.au/stallions/a_stud_record.php?arion_id=100972485&hemisphere=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.stallions.com.au/stallions/a_stud_record.php?arion_id=100972485&hemisphere=1 ------------- reductio ad absurdum |
Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 10:13pm
| I think Byron Rogers had a lot to do with his selection and importation |
Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 10:18pm
| Very impressive list of Group wins, Wild Storm and Wild Spirit amongst them. That’s why I named ours Wild Hostess |
Posted By: Gay3
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 9:38am
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Wow!! This is impressive  From Kristen Manning.Artie Schiller hails from the family of Mr Prospector and picks up well on strains of that legendary stallion.... tonight's Canterbury winner Major Artie is one example... Artie Schiller's strike rate with mares carrying a Mr Prospector strain is an excellent 69.1%; 30 stakes winners ------------- Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it! |
Posted By: furious
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 11:13am
| Same as Hussonet in South America loved stallions with Nijinsky. Ring a bell for Arrowfield importing him with all the Redoute's blood around. |
Posted By: Red Hare
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 11:19am
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First couple of pages in this thread read like an episode of Bridgerton
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Posted By: Sister Dot
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2021 at 3:57pm
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Our 10 yr old mare has Hussonet on sire side, one back plus Mr Prospector 3m,5m x 4m. Bred two foals, not planning on continuing breeding, have enough racehorses around here. Lease available if anyone interested. Not for sale though. ------------- “Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined” |