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Point Of Consumption Tax

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Sneck View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 5:18pm
It's terrible and I'm strongly against it considering the negative impact it will have in the market. It's bad for all punters, winning and recreational alike.
However, as a winning gambler I'm not exactly given preferential treatment.
Will I see any personal benefit if I relocate to the NT?
Will there be any difference being located in NSW(10%) compared to VIC(8%)?
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Atreus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 5:55pm
It will be time to give betting on the Australian races away once this POC tax comes in.  Taxes and charges on bookies will be so high that they won't be tolerating any winning players.  And if you cannot win there is no point to playing the game

You could move overseas and still bet on Betfair.  But the liquidity on Betfair will take a big hit on the Aussie races with all the Aussie punters subject to the tax.  So even if you moved overseas you would be better off playing other markets like overseas races or sports

The only people winning on Aussie races will Zeljko and Walsh and anyone getting rebates with the TABs betting through the Isle of Man hub.  The POC Tax has been carefully crafted to ensure these guys are not impacted by the tax
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 6:13pm
The international bookmaker ban was a terrible blow for Australian punters but the minimum bet laws are hard to pass up for racing centric players. If the markets are rubbish and/or bookmakers employ unethical/fraudulent behavior it's probably better to be in NZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

The only people winning on Aussie races will Zeljko and Walsh and anyone getting rebates with the TABs betting through the Isle of Man hub.  The POC Tax has been carefully crafted to ensure these guys are not impacted by the tax
This really stinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 6:44pm
I don't see bookies honouring the minimum bet laws for winning players once this POC Tax comes in.  The taxes and charges are too steep

William Hill used to reduce people's odds on logging in.  I don't think anything was ever done about that.  So that is all you have to do to get round the minimum bet laws
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

I don't see bookies honouring the minimum bet laws for winning players once this POC Tax comes in.  The taxes and charges are too steep

William Hill used to reduce people's odds on logging in.  I don't think anything was ever done about that.  So that is all you have to do to get round the minimum bet laws

I used to be one that would have the odds reduced on login. But that stopped when the minimum bet rules came in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

I don't see bookies honouring the minimum bet laws for winning players once this POC Tax comes in.  The taxes and charges are too steep

William Hill used to reduce people's odds on logging in.  I don't think anything was ever done about that.  So that is all you have to do to get round the minimum bet laws
There are many tricks the corporates can try to employ to avoid minimum limits but I can see the legislation being enforced through NSW because it benefits the agenda.

Ultimately the corporates may be forced raise their market percentage to the point which TAB fixed odds become the market leader.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 7:34pm
pnclick

It never stopped for me with Centrebet/William Hill.  Whenever I logged in the odds changed with the odds on each runner dropping by about 3 rolls of the board
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 7:42pm
Surely racing promos will be cactus. No money backs, protest payout etc. Odds boost almost certainly gone. Maybe they could still offer it on multis like they do with sports? Who knows. Doesn’t affect me personally but can feel for those who it does affect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 7:43pm
Sneck

Time will tell if the minimum bet laws are enforced but I doubt they will be.  Bookies will soon have to pay
1.  Racefields fees
2.  GST
3.  POC Tax
4.  General expenses of running the business (wages, advertising, website etc)
5.  Payouts to overall winning punters

After all these payments are made they still have to pay 30% company tax on whatever is left over

The bookies will be paying way more to racing and government than they make themselves.  The areas of expense that they can trim will be payouts to winning punters by ignoring the minimum bet laws and cutting back on advertising and promotions

Even V'Landys has said that after this POC Tax the bookies won't be able to cop any more charges without going broke.  So I reckon the minimum bet laws won't be enforced and bookies will make some extra cash that way

In any case you would have to have rocks in your head to keep betting with so many charges imposed.  Better off doing something different with your time.  The Golden Age for punting on Aussie races is behind us.  Best to recognise that and move on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 7:51pm
Presently I bet only through Betfair on Australian races. 

They deduct 8.4 % from my net winnings on any NSW race, whereas in Vict. ACT,Qld & SA races they deduct 5.04%

If the PoCT is only levied on an operator's/ bookie's profit the ramifications of the PoCT will vary from state to state with my Betfair betting. 

With the PoCT of 10% in NSW that deduction will increase to 9.24% on NSW races

In Vict the PoCT isto be  8%, which will increase that deduction to 5.443% on Vict races

In SA they intend to have a 15% PoCT that will increase that deduction to 5.796%

As far as I know Qld & the ACT have yet to decide on the PoCT .

By those figures alone I will probably no longer bet on NSW races, which of course, is revenue lost to NSW. 

It makes you think do administrators live in the real world.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 8:22pm
Apparently Qld , ACT are going to copy SA and introduce a 15% PoCT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:28pm
Baghdad Bob

The South Australian 15% POC Tax has already been in place for months.  Betfair's response to it was to have South Australian punters all pay the base commission rate in each market.  So no deductions to your commission rate for turnover

South Australian players were paying 6% in South Australia, 6% in Victoria and 10% in NSW regardless of their turnover

Maybe with Victoria only charging 8% POC tax instead of 15% Betfair will allow a portion of commission points earned to reduce the base rate of commission if you live in Victoria.  Your estimated commission rates look close to the mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:31pm
W.A have 15% in operation .    The worry was NSW were to be taxing turnover rather than profits .    That would kill Betfair apparently .
I don't know the accuracy of my information but I'm sure you will steer us right on the position.
Criminals they are , want to kill all Australian Industries.
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Sneck

Time will tell if the minimum bet laws are enforced but I doubt they will be.  Bookies will soon have to pay
1.  Racefields fees
2.  GST
3.  POC Tax
4.  General expenses of running the business (wages, advertising, website etc)
5.  Payouts to overall winning punters

After all these payments are made they still have to pay 30% company tax on whatever is left over

The bookies will be paying way more to racing and government than they make themselves.  The areas of expense that they can trim will be payouts to winning punters by ignoring the minimum bet laws and cutting back on advertising and promotions

Even V'Landys has said that after this POC Tax the bookies won't be able to cop any more charges without going broke.  So I reckon the minimum bet laws won't be enforced and bookies will make some extra cash that way

In any case you would have to have rocks in your head to keep betting with so many charges imposed.  Better off doing something different with your time.  The Golden Age for punting on Aussie races is behind us.  Best to recognise that and move on

You're missing their biggest 'advertising' expense. 

The 30% odd of all lost money they pay to their affiliate marketing partners who sign up new members. Such as this website, Punters/Racenet or whatever, hence why they all have banners all over them.

Has to be a large percentage of their potential profits going like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 3:56pm
I didn't pay much commission on the Rugby League ...     With some turnover deductions it's only about 25% of the NSW racing Commission.
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 5:46pm
Speediskey

Affiliate marketing partners would be part of general expenses so No 4.  You are right that it is a big expense.  These payments will likely get cut back for websites like this one, Racenet and Punters.  It would be a good thing if the affiliate payments went altogether
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