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Pierro

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Kimberley Mine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 4:05pm
Well, one reason he might be getting foals who want to run long is that quite a few are linebred to either Zabeel or Sir Tristram:

Pinot -- dam by Zabeel
Cabierro -- 2nd dam by Zabeel
Pierata -- 2nd dam by Zabeel (plus Sir Ivor via Grand Luxe)
Pissaro -- dam by Galileo, 2nd dam by Grosvenor
Pierrocity -- 2nd dam by Sovereign Red (by Sir T)
Satin Slipper -- 3rd dam by Kaapstad (plus Sir Ivor via Grand Luxe)
Noviero -- 3rd dam by Sir Tristram
China Gale -- 3rd dam by Grosvenor (plus Sir Ivor via Grand Luxe)
Pierone -- dam by Filante (NZ) whose dam is by Sir Tristram
Princess Pierro (placed as a 2yo) -- 3rd dam by Bates Motel, by Sir Ivor

That's 9 out of his 20 winners so far, and 3 of his 5 stakes horses.  If you count Tulip's 3rd dam Grand Luxe by Sir Ivor and Princess Pierro, that's fully half of his winners and 80% of his stakes horses so far are linebred to Sir Ivor, Sir Tristram, or Zabeel AND 60% of his stakes horses have Sir Ivor through the Ciboulette family.  It's quite astounding to see how strong that cross is even at this early stage. 

Pissaro and Levendi also both trace back to the Sound Reason (CAN) mare Sellou.

Again, my gut feeling is that he's throwing to his damline and his damline REALLY REALLY REALLY likes Sir Ivor!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 7:52pm
Sellou was s 3/4 sister to a horse my father raced called I Will. I have tried to buy s couple of descendants of this family line over the years unsuccessfully. Always had faith in the line, including Roman Emperor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 11:12am
Well at least we can say now that Pierro can certainly get a good galloper.  Just a bit different to most Golden Slipper winners.  His seem to want a mile plus but then his pedigree suggested that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 11:19am
Nice to see that Redoute's Choice cross also as with Snitzel and Not a Single Doubt two of our best sire's by him we now have a sire firing who crosses well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 12:33pm
He's getting runners, which he SHOULD be doing with the mares he saw....and in saying that, the only other stallion in his crop who is getting the same level of consistent class is Reliable Man.   They're going up against horses by Redoute's Choice, Fastnet Rock, Snitzel, Exceed and Excel, and Street Cry, and holding their own.  



 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 3:23am
Finished out the Flemington carnival with three stakes winners and one more running 4th in two stakes, with all of them progressing as they stretched out in distance.

Pinot's race was the most impressive...but I'm curious to see how Pissaro will turn out after a spell and another 3-4 months of maturing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2017 at 11:36am
PIERROCITY (AUS)Bay filly 2014 
Pierro
Bay 2009
Lonhro
Brown 1998
Octagonal
Brown 1992
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle
1971
1982
6-e
16-c
Eight Carat
Brown 1975
Pieces of Eight
Klairessa
1963
1969
3-o
9-c
Shadea
Bay 1988
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Concia
Bay 1978
First Consul
My Tricia
1970
1974
5-f
8>
Miss Right Note
Grey 2003
Daylami
Grey 1994
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Dumka
1968
1971
22-d
21-a
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Damana
1978
1981
16-g
9-e
Sky Song
Bay 1997
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Criquette
Bay 1990
Shirley Heights
Ghislaine
1975
1981
1-l
1-t
Dane Ripper
Bay 1993
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Red Express
Chestnut 1984
Sovereign Red
Chestnut 1977
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Isolt
1965
1961
8-g
6-e
Taiona
Brown 1972
Sovereign Edition
Vickyjoy
1962
1965
13-a
7-d
Let Her Rip
Bay or brown 1974
Shifnal
Chestnut 1960
Star Kingdom
Oceana
1946
1947
1-g
1-u
Princess Ripa
Brown 1968
Test Case
Belle Spi
1958
1950
9-c
2-g
 Ancestor duplications:Sir Tristram5m x 4m Northern Dancer5m x 4m Natalmax 5m,5f


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2017 at 11:51am
Race 8 at Riccarton. Last run was a winner at 1600.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 8:39am
Originally posted by Sir Gov Sir Gov wrote:

I suspect many are ready to declare this boy a flop.

Now 1 win from 20 starters in his 2nd season.........that is just too bad to be true

Tulip the flag bearer - but overall now sits at 10 winners from 46 starters.

Cannot even be close to a full book I would imagine






RankStallion Ccode Yof - To StudBreedingRnrsWnrsWinsSW(SWins)EarningsBest Performer
1Pierro (AUS) 2009 - 2013Lonhro - Miss Right Note6725334(5)$2,469,469Pinot - 733,275
2All Too Hard (AUS) 2009 - 2013Casino Prince - Helsinge7524322(2)$1,379,485Villermont - 172,910
3Your Song (AUS) 2009 - 2013Fastnet Rock - Zembu5521260(0)$770,195Mister Songman - 71,575
4Reliable Man (GB) 2008 - 2013Dalakhani - On Fair Stage16681(1)$624,785Sully - 354,250
5Ocean Park (NZ) 2008 - 2013Thorn Park - Sayyida269161(1)$598,930Ocean Jewel - 158,000
6Azamour (IRE) 2001 - 2006Night Shift - Asmara1121(2)$451,600Aloisia - 451,600
7Gingerbread Man (AUS) 2007 - 2013Shamardal - Quaffle12550(0)$338,350Achernar Star - 284,500
8Animal Kingdom (USA) 2008 - 2013Leroidesanimaux - Dalicia25790(0)$306,820Peaceful State - 59,100
9Golden Archer (AUS) 2008 - 2013Rock of Gibraltar - Viennetta317100(0)$270,265Lady Lark - 45,400
10Frost Giant (USA) 2003 - 2009Giant's Causeway - Takesmybreathaway27880(0)$239,820Carolina Reaper - 79,100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 10:23am
Yep - egg on my face big time.

Not only with winners but also some top line horses like Pinot.

Congrats to those that stuck - he is absolutely firing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 4:26pm
They're showing up in city races mid-week and showing up and winning all over on Saturdays, from metro to country.

I am surprised at just how hard he's throwing to his damline, and also kind of surprised at how his rival All Too Hard (who got better as he got older) has had only 1 winner since the 20th of November.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 4:53pm
I'm confused KM.

You point out that so many of his superior performers are line-bred to Sir Ivor, Sir T or Zabeel, which is of course his sire line.  And then you suggest he's throwing hard to his damline, which to me would appear to represent something of a contradiction.

Would appreciate clarification of my possible misunderstanding. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Kimberley Mine Kimberley Mine wrote:

They're showing up in city races mid-week and showing up and winning all over on Saturdays, from metro to country.

I am surprised at just how hard he's throwing to his damline, and also kind of surprised at how his rival All Too Hard (who got better as he got older) has had only 1 winner since the 20th of November.
A lot more of ATHs will come out early next year, aiming for the autumn.
 
What gets me, is how is anyone supposed to make money off supporting these stallions for commercial sales? I think there is like 40+ ATHs in the magic millions alone, haven't checked Pierro, but would say he would be similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Kimberley Mine Kimberley Mine wrote:

They're showing up in city races mid-week and showing up and winning all over on Saturdays, from metro to country.

I am surprised at just how hard he's throwing to his damline, and also kind of surprised at how his rival All Too Hard (who got better as he got older) has had only 1 winner since the 20th of November.


Totally understand where you are coming from KM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

I'm confused KM.

You point out that so many of his superior performers are line-bred to Sir Ivor, Sir T or Zabeel, which is of course his sire line.  And then you suggest he's throwing hard to his damline, which to me would appear to represent something of a contradiction.

Would appreciate clarification of my possible misunderstanding. 



It appears to me that his damside really, really, really likes Sir Ivor.

His 2nd dam produced Gr-1 winner Laverock by Octagonal, the best performer in the family in three generations until Pierro.  Go back another generation and the best performer of his 3rd dam is the only one with Sir Ivor (with a bonus line of Tom Fool, something else this family seems to like).  Wherever Sir Ivor is introduced/reintroduced to this family, the family gets quality runners.  

Gonski, who was out of a Marauding mare, sired his best Australian runner out of a mare from this family.  Reset has a Gr2 winner out of a half-sister to Pierro's 2nd dam.  

So Pierro throwing to his damline (better at longer distances, better as they get older) and getting his best runners when linebred to his sireline are not mutually exclusive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:33am
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

A lot more of ATHs will come out early next year, aiming for the autumn.

Even so.  Just like it was surprising how quiet Pierro was at the beginning of the season.

It's also surprising that when they're getting beaten, most of them are getting beaten badly.  7 of 7, 10 of 10, 7 of 9, 9 of 11, 7 of 8, etc.  Demonetization, Villermont, and All Too Huiying are doing their best to fly the flag, but...like I said, surprising.

Compare to Pierro, who for every 9 of 11 (fiddlesticks stop running that NZ filly in stakes, she's over her head) he has a 1 or 2 of 10 since mid-November, or Ocean Park, who is positively en fuego. 
 
Quote What gets me, is how is anyone supposed to make money off supporting these stallions for commercial sales? I think there is like 40+ ATHs in the magic millions alone, haven't checked Pierro, but would say he would be similar.

Pierro has 17 for Magic Millions and 9 or 10 each in Inglis Classic and Premier.  That may be an outlier -- he had colic surgery 2 years back and covered a limited book.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 10:13pm
Not a bad season for Pierro with an Oaks, and two Derby winners from his first crop.  Coolmore must be wondering why they couldn't get stayers with all their overseas breed imports when all of a sudden Pierro and So You Think are both firing over a distance.  And you get the Zabeel cross or the Redoute's Choice cross, or the Encosta de Lago cross - so that opens up all the other best lines for mares to go to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 10:32pm
2 Derby winners ?


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 11:05pm
WA Derby winner to day by Pierro djebel, furious don't make many blues, not like me, would that make it two with Levendi winning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 11:10pm
WA Derby out of a Redoute's Choice Djebel.  That's two Derby winners with that cross.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 8:11pm
All the stamina must come from Pierro ?


ACTION (AUS)
Bay gelding 2014 
Pierro
Bay 2009
Lonhro
Brown 1998
Octagonal
Brown 1992
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle
1971
1982
6-e
16-c
Eight Carat
Brown 1975
Pieces of Eight
Klairessa
1963
1969
3-o
9-c
Shadea
Bay 1988
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Concia
Bay 1978
First Consul
My Tricia
1970
1974
5-f
8>
Miss Right Note
Grey 2003
Daylami
Grey 1994
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Dumka
1968
1971
22-d
21-a
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Damana
1978
1981
16-g
9-e
Sky Song
Bay 1997
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Criquette
Bay 1990
Shirley Heights
Ghislaine
1975
1981
1-l
1-t
Broadway Belle
Bay 2005
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Brown 1987
Bletchingly
Jesmond Lass
1970
1975
7-a
14>
Dancing Show
Bay 1983
Nijinsky
Show Lady
1967
1976
8-f
8-f
Antique
Brown 1999
Metal Storm
Bay 1988
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
Porphyrine
Bay 1980
Habitat
Katie May
1966
1973
4-r
4-n
Bonny Guest
Chestnut 1987
What a Guest
Chestnut 1979
Be My Guest
Princess Tiara
1974
1974
8-c
1-p
Bonny Dancer
Chestnut 1980
Bletchingly
Dancelot
1970
1972
7-a
22-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Bletchinglyx 5m,5f


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 8:29pm
Well a full sister to Broadway Belle is the dam of Arcadia Dream also winner of the WA Derby in 2016.  Action certainly looks like he is a fast stayer.  Interesting that they don't like some of the types Pierro throws including this boy.  These could be his stayers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 3:28am
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Well a full sister to Broadway Belle is the dam of Arcadia Dream also winner of the WA Derby in 2016.  Action certainly looks like he is a fast stayer.  Interesting that they don't like some of the types Pierro throws including this boy.  These could be his stayers?

I said in October that Pierro was throwing to his female line and that looks to be more and more the case.  With the stallion's crest and maturity, he looks like Zabeel from the neck forward and Daylami from the shoulder back.





And this lad is one of Pierro's stakes winners, who looks like someone dipped Daylami in brown paint and gave him a freeze-brand (roman nose, thick throat latch, and all).



It would be interesting to get all of Pierro's better runners together in a line and have a look.  I suspect that the ones who are running well at 1200-1600m all have one physical type (either Lonhro or their dams) and the ones running well at 2000m+ all look like Daylami.
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TERRA SANCTA (NZ)Bay filly 2014 
Pierro
Bay 2009
Lonhro
Brown 1998
Octagonal
Brown 1992
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle
1971
1982
6-e
16-c
Eight Carat
Brown 1975
Pieces of Eight
Klairessa
1963
1969
3-o
9-c
Shadea
Bay 1988
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Concia
Bay 1978
First Consul
My Tricia
1970
1974
5-f
8>
Miss Right Note
Grey 2003
Daylami
Grey 1994
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Dumka
1968
1971
22-d
21-a
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Damana
1978
1981
16-g
9-e
Sky Song
Bay 1997
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Criquette
Bay 1990
Shirley Heights
Ghislaine
1975
1981
1-l
1-t
Galshaan
Brown 2007
Galileo
Bay 1998
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Hopespringseternal
1970
1971
13-c
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Anatevka
1967
1969
1-d
9-h
Darlya
Bay 1991
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
Azallya
Bay 1984
Habitat
Bay 1966
Sir Gaylord
Little Hut
1959
1952
2-s
4-r
Azurella
Bay 1971
High Hat
Azorelle
1957
1962
2-o
1-t
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector5m x 5m Mill Reef5m x 5m Miswaki5f x 4f 
  Sadler's Wells4f x 3m Shirley Heights5f x 4m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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