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Pierro

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khaki View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 11:49am
88k Darley - looks like someone has accidently released this. 



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Buckpasser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckpasser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 11:54am
Fairly sure that's an advert for Lohnro.
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khaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 11:59am
doh - bloody deceiving that one...

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 12:29pm
Interesting that Darley would feature someone else's first year Stallion to promote one of theirs.
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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 12:30pm
Yes they are using the progeny to advertise the stallions.  Flip through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 12:40pm
I did realise that.
My point was that they decided to feature Pierro despite knowing he would in all likelihood be competing against them in the marketplace this season.
It is normal practice to never even mention the names of your competition in marketing/advertising.

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Lordy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

I did realise that.
My point was that they decided to feature Pierro despite knowing he would in all likelihood be competing against them in the marketplace this season.
It is normal practice to never even mention the names of your competition in marketing/advertising.


Not sure why you would think that way. It can only be a good thing for your stallion if he produces another champion even if that horse is heading to another stud. Do you think they would avoid mentioning All To Hard when marketing Casino Prince?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 6:18pm

So Pierro retired because he was scared of ATH in the All-Aged. What a cotton wool champ, trainer and owner mollycoddled horse all through its career, and only raced older horses this prep as it couldn't take on the best horses, 5.5. Star and Super Cool. Pathetic.

*Disclaimer, I don't believe 1 word of what I just wrote, just wanted to see what it was like to bag great horses as many on here did with you know who.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2013 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

I did realise that.
My point was that they decided to feature Pierro despite knowing he would in all likelihood be competing against them in the marketplace this season.
It is normal practice to never even mention the names of your competition in marketing/advertising.


Not sure why you would think that way. It can only be a good thing for your stallion if he produces another champion even if that horse is heading to another stud. Do you think they would avoid mentioning All To Hard when marketing Casino Prince?
Good point, but a little different IMO.
What else can they promote with CP?
Lonrho has plenty to brag about,without mentioning Pierro,Casino Prince.... not so much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 9:15pm
It's very nearly a dundeel.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EverydayImShufflin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 10:09pm
I'm hearing $25-30 million. Two farms left in the running, unsurprisingly both Hunter Valley based. One Australian brand and the other an internationally owned farm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 12:17am
Yep 2 farms! ones is favoured pending a few conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sequi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 11:46pm
Coolmore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAZZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 12:14am
Priced between 80 and 120. Either way far too expensive
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 12:59am
Boom!

Will get some great mares!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote orpen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 10:50am
Pierro's 1/2 brother needs to lift his game. A maiden after 11 starts is not a great look on the stallion page. At least All Too Hard doesn't have to carry the family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 11:18am
id go to his old man before him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 12:58pm

Most of the greats have lesser family members.  Even great mares produce non winners.  Lots of different combinations of genes they can inherit afterall.  Just look at Danehill one of our greats.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 12:13pm
Will stand for $77,000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 3:15pm
I want to know from my more learned friends on the forum, Why is it that if Pierro went to stud with the exact same 2 and 3yo record PLUS trained on at 4 to win a Melbourne Cup and god damn it an Ascot Gold Cup why would his value be diminished ?
 
 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Sequi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sequi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 3:47pm
Fashion, pure and simple
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckpasser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 4:37pm
If he won an Ascot Gold Cup his fee would be 20 k. If he won Melbourne Cup without Ascot then 30 k. Obviously made up figures but they are not stallion races, they would not prove he has any of the qualities a breeder for sale ring or track would chase and would require, by the very nature of getting sufficient miles into any horses legs, him to be beaten or have all brilliance trained out of him. Throw in him being an Australian bred colt and therefore having reached maturity earlier with a heavier body to be maintained and the risk of him going amiss increases.

Looking at him and Reliable Man, who do have similar pedigree structure, neither really have the physical characteristics that the pedigree would show they should. Reliable Man actually looks like a Petingo to me while Pierro, from the first time I saw him as a weanling, looks to be a proper sprinter/ miler, maybe out to 2000m at best. That in itsellf makes you think that Lohnro must be the influence but he doesn't look like a proper one of those either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 6:14pm
$77k, wow. There are a number of elite proven stallions in that price category. Only $10k less than Lonhro himself.

I have little doubt people will pay big overs for his first crop of yearlings so price maybe fair enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by Buckpasser Buckpasser wrote:

If he won an Ascot Gold Cup his fee would be 20 k. If he won Melbourne Cup without Ascot then 30 k. Obviously made up figures but they are not stallion races, they would not prove he has any of the qualities a breeder for sale ring or track would chase and would require, by the very nature of getting sufficient miles into any horses legs, him to be beaten or have all brilliance trained out of him. Throw in him being an Australian bred colt and therefore having reached maturity earlier with a heavier body to be maintained and the risk of him going amiss increases.

Looking at him and Reliable Man, who do have similar pedigree structure, neither really have the physical characteristics that the pedigree would show they should. Reliable Man actually looks like a Petingo to me while Pierro, from the first time I saw him as a weanling, looks to be a proper sprinter/ miler, maybe out to 2000m at best. That in itsellf makes you think that Lohnro must be the influence but he doesn't look like a proper one of those either.
 
His female pedigree is 100% European.
 
What he achieved as a 2yo goes against the grain of his pedigree. He really should come into his own as a 4yo+
 
The sireline is more known for its 4yos+
 
I am not sure where in the pedigree of Pierro he would get a  distinctly Aussie type about him ?
 
 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 6:52pm
Lordy, if Paul Willetts said to Rob Heathcote, I have found a Pierro colt that we must have , don't lose on him, would you race one
current stable...Giuliani.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 7:50pm
I wish something like Widden or Arrowfield had got him.  Not because they are Australian owned and run just because they have stood similar type stallions and made them work.  Maybe Coolmore hasn't had a Golden Slipper winner yet so I could be holding it against them unfairly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckpasser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 7:53pm
Not sure where I indicated where Pierro was or wasn't a 'distinct Aussie type'. I would say, less Danehill and Star Kingdom he is a vey Australian type, he has strength, depth, length, good bone, gaskin, forearm etc with a well angled shoulder. It is well established ( Ker has good, easily to deciiminate data) that shows that Australian environmental conditions have a significant effect on the development and physic of our horses even with the same genetics, at least in the good ones. Think Charltons recent comments, Johnstons anti Scenic Blast diatribe etc to see how English trainers as of yet haven't comprehended that environmental factors that change the development, for better or worse, of the same genetics.

The point I was making on Pierro and Reliable Man is that the geno and pheno don't match up, at least within the commonality in the tabulated pedigree but both still, via other forebears, have gained the required ability to run. The pedigree elements in common are often deemed in Australia to have failed individually, Sadlers, Mill Reef etc. when these two horses do not meet what would be expected physically they perform well under our conditions.

I am sure winning an Ascot Gold Cup must be a wonderful thrill for the relevant owner each year but I am unsure what qualities those horses possess that would work in Australia. We have seen many predictable failures, Dylan Thomas, tiger hill, giants causeway to name a few who were wonderful racehorses but nothing in their type or racing style suggested they would mesh with our brood mares, training, racing styles etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 8:00pm
Fee a bit high? More than SYT last year!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 8:26pm
[QUOTE=songline] Fee a bit high? More than SYT last year!

Ridiculous if only for that reason. As good as he was, I don't think there'd be too many people who would say they believe that, when compared to SYT, Pierro was the better of the two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fast forward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 8:51pm
So do you go to the Champion or for similar money to his sire who has proven he can throw a Champion. Personally I'd go the proven option. I like stallions that CAN throw a top horse.
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