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photo assessments

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alexxx View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alexxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: photo assessments
    Posted: 19 Mar 2010 at 5:47am
anyone still doing this? on 2yo colts
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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2010 at 8:07pm

Yes, 'horsegears' is, go to the Stallions forum then 'Hey Orpen' thread. He's posted there.


Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Xolento View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2010 at 9:27pm
and it is all bull dust 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2010 at 9:29pm
You need to see horses in the flesh, photos are misleading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 1:10am

Originally posted by Xolento Xolento wrote:

and it is all bull dust 

Perhaps it is, to the 'experts', however some of us may feel we're still learning & part of that process is working out the bull dust from fact Smile

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rubiton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 1:44am
A good photo of a horse will tell you heaps but a crap one (or even with very slight errors of placement) can be misleading.
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horsegears View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 2:23am

Yes, rubiton is correct, you need a correctly aligned photo verically, horizontally, and distance wise, and also know how to spot and make allowances for each if need be.

Also you may require
 
To know what traits to look for that apply specifically to Thoroughbreds, in regard to what your assessing, whether that be distance gearing, balance, top line etc.
 
You may need to able to account for the variations in joint angles, bones lengths, vertical and horizontal lines, that typically vary by less than 5%
 
And you need to assess that all as one, as its really all comparative, and individual to each horse.
 
All that considered, i can understand the debate conformation can lead to.
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horsegears View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 2:59am
Look, when its all said and done I believe I can provide some very good information regarding conformation. I believe if you look through my comments, you will find there fairly reliable. If I err and someone points that out, well thats still good. As it is, the existing information regarding racehorse conformation is very text bookish, and often based only on traits that apply to general horses, or what people have read previously in books. As I base all that I state and do on my own research, I believe I can offer some insights that go beyond that.
 
For example, here is an insight that goes against textbook theory.
 
Humerus bone length and angle (arm): The humerus extends from the elbow joint, upwards towards the shoulder joint. A longer arm and/or a more upright arm, should result in a longer stride, and greater endurance. But regardless of this, we found the length to be very similar with both stayers and sprinters. Further the angle was surprisingly slightly more upright for the sprinter. Again this indicates stride length and endurence. As this goes against text book theory, how can this work in the sprinters favour?  The sprinters shoulder joint is typically open, leading to a slightly shorter shoulder blade. The upright humerus and shorter shoulder blade decreases the top line horizontal measurement from chest to wither. This enables the sprinter to obtain greater length, through the hind, while also maintaining a reasonable height/length ratio. This means whatever a sprinter may lose in speed/strength through its fore, due to its upright arm, will be re-attained in spades, from its stronger hindquarters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Xolento Xolento wrote:

and it is all bull dust 
 
That's not nice X, have a look at the cover shots on Womans Day etc, these are all fair dinkum and it's only in our tiny minds that we think those 45yo 's are 20 again.
They wouldn't alter photos of horses would they?Wink
N Z -Land of the wrong white crowd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 7:14pm
set this guy up years ago , who "alledgedly" could pick a champ from photos....sent him the sires (stallions) photos telling him they were yearlings I had just purchased....the resulting assesments were hysterical....god I wish I still had them to post for you all for a good laugh  LOL  Bah humbug 
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antlowes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 5:43pm
So you told him pics of 7yo's+ stallions were actually 2yo yearlings and you were surprised when his assessments were off the mark?
 
Go figure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 7:18pm
they were former G1 winners and he bagged the crap out of them 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 7:19pm
you may as well get Brooke to asses horses for you with her crystal ball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by antlowes antlowes wrote:

So you told him pics of 7yo's+ stallions were actually 2yo yearlings and you were surprised when his assessments were off the mark?
 
Go figure...
 
Very balanced point Antlowes.
 
Afterall, a mature Thoroughbred, when rated as a Yearling will not even have the noted athletic Thoroughbred proportions, let alone conformation for winning Group 1 races.
 
In fact the bone structure would not match any straight racebred horse, even the racing quarter horses.
 
The legs would appear way to short, the girth way to deep, big barrel, thick neck, etc etc, similar to stocky pony club type yearlings.          Further the length of the shoulder balde would be  massive.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 10:42pm
Wow -that's a heap of mighty big differences Horsegears.
It's hard to fathom how an expert could fail to notice such............
My eyesight ain't that flash and I'm no expert but I can distinguish a stallion from a yearling at 150 paces..... 
N Z -Land of the wrong white crowd.
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horsegears View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 10:52pm

Yes nod, its a good story, but bulldust

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Xolento View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 3:29am
assesing conformation from photo is bulldust of the highest order 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondsAtDusk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 4:01am
Worried about what they may say about alex's horse X? Tongue
We Started Nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 4:47am

If thats the fastnet rock colt your referring too, ive seen him, and although he has some weaknesses, he also has some rarer strengths, and I dont mind him overall.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 5:11am
means jack to me diamondsatdusk, why would I give a rodents about that ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 4:57am
Horsegears, Is it just 2 year olds or can/do you make conformation assessments with weanlings too? if so I would very much like one for this filly if its not too much trouble:
 
 
I personally think that info on conformation is a good tool in determining what distances a horse will likely excel at and is more reliable than dosage profiles as a way of determining potential ability
ZAMINGA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsegears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 7:06am
I also think its a good guide for distance, if you can measure and assess all the small  % variations. I may start a thread distance gearing estimations.
 
I believe conformation, breeding, muscle quality, cardio system, upbringing, soundness, and more, are all important. But I believe the genuine Champions have high qualities across the board. Thus individually, in my opinion they may be used as a guide, but if you can use them in conjunction with each other, you may have a very powerful tool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 8:54pm
interesting thread.
Noticed that while perusing Easter yearlings that the photo and sirecam video image of the same  horse were significantly different for some studs.
if you examine both photo and sirecam closely it is evident that the photos have been touched up to make the yearling appear to have a deeper girth and look more athletic.
Bottom line is that the photo should only be a starting point to a thorough physical examination in the flesh.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 11:14pm
Surely that type of change would be noticed by buyers doing final inspections.  Hardly any buyer at the top end would take a chance without a final physical inspection, so you are just asking for trouble by showing a photo that doesn't reflect reality???
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xolento Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 1:43am
Originally posted by reng reng wrote:

Surely that type of change would be noticed by buyers doing final inspections.  Hardly any buyer at the top end would take a chance without a final physical inspection, so you are just asking for trouble by showing a photo that doesn't reflect reality???


100% agree Reng.

and the photographers ability to take the pic makes a HUGE difference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 2:40am

It is clearly visable that part of the abdomen is shaded out to give the horse a more streamlined deeper girth.

If you e-mail me privately I will give you lot numbers to compare both photo and sirecam.
Once you are aware of the alteration it is quite easy to pick. It is not a massive alteration but one that definately enhances the girth.
 
I daresay once at the sales Noone remembers the exact look of the horse except it just does not make the grade as the photo sugested.
Last year I was disappointed wih certain drafts that looked exceptional on photos, this year when comparing sirecam against photos of the same yearlings now know why.
They do it all the time for fashion shoots to enhance the models looks.
I also agree reng that you are not going to fool the buyer on final inspections but neverless it does appear that these photos have been touched up.
Interested on your opinions once you have compared the two.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSB Raiderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 8:13pm
19 month old filly
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2010 at 2:32am
Can you do 1 for mine ?????
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2010 at 3:03am
Hahaha i got a couple he's not looking his best as it's his second day @ being broken inShocked
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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