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O'Reilly broodmare

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Tuddy7272 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: O'Reilly broodmare
    Posted: 30 May 2017 at 6:20am
Hello all. I am a new member of the forum but have actively kept up with alot of breeding topics in the forum and value alot of opinions in here.

I have an O'Reilly mare named Colour Me Pretty who is metropolitan winner with a Bradbury's Luck weanling and currently in foal to Rich Enuff. I am trying to finalise her mating for 2017 and  given she is free of Danehill there are plenty of options. I had been considering going to a proven sire given the mare went to a first season sire last season but I keep coming back to Stratum Star. I know it is punt given he is unknown but I loved how tough he was as a racehorse and I really like the duplications of Kaoru Star through Pins and Luskin Star and Last Tycoon through O'Reilly.

Aside from pedigree, I think the mating would work well on type.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Tuddy7272 
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Cityboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 7:00am
I quite like Stratum Star and all your duplications plus you've also got Redoute's Choice sireline over a Last Tycoon line mare which I think is a well known successful cross. Some might say the duplication of O'Reilly is a bit close but overall looks real nice to me

Maybe it would be worth checking how many other successful racehorses you can find with duplications in the same location as your O'Reilly duplication to confirm that it looks a likely positive? Historically close up duplications seemed to work but I don't notice that many in good racehorses these days.

If I found myself comfortable with this duplication positioning then I'd keenly proceed with the Stratum Star mating if she were mine.

Best of luck.

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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 11:56am
Yes, O'Reilly and Pins very close up which some might balk at.

Thought Wandjina was a good match on paper, though he's quite expensive.Last Tycoon 3f x 3m, Snippets (g'sire of Colour Me Pretty's stakes-winning dam) 4f x 4m, Lunchtime 4f, 5m, 7f x 5m, Mill Reef 5f x 5f, 6m, the usual Northern Dancer and Natalma, and some additional duplications further back.

Over to others.
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 12:04pm
COLOUR ME PRETTY (NZ)Bay filly 2010 
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Sex Appeal
Chestnut 1970
Buckpasser
Best in Show
1963
1965
1-s
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Irish Lass
Bay 1962
Sayajirao
Scollata
1944
1952
3-n
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Bay 1966
Round Table
Nas-Mahal
1954
1959
2-f
2-f
Port Damascus
Bay 1971
Damascus
Paris Pike
1964
1957
8-h
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chestnut 1958
Palestine
Tambara
1947
1947
3-e
6-d
Chatty Lady
Bay 1961
Chatsworth
Glamin
1950
1952
21-a
13-b
Rhysess
Bay 2001
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Chestnut 1970
Silly Season
Great Occasion
1962
1965
1-g
7-f
Easy Date
Bay 1977
Grand Chaudiere
Scampering
1968
1970
19-b
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Chestnut 1965
Star Kingdom
Kaoru
1946
1955
1-g
31>
Humour
Bay 1962
Pirate King
Real Delight
1953
1951
21-a
16-g
Sahrhys
Bay 1992
Oak Ridge
Bay 1980
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Oak Hill
Bay 1972
Sheshoon
Typha
1956
1965
14-a
8-c
Eager Eyes
Bay 1976
Wandering Eyes
Bay 1962
Palestine
Gneevebawn
1947
1953
3-e
3-e
Lanadoone
Brown 1970
Arctic Explorer
Delaney
1954
1959
14-c
8-k
 Ancestor duplications:Mill Reef4f x 5m Palestine5m x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 12:06pm
Personally I love it.

Unnamed  
Stratum Star (AUS)
Chestnut 2011
Stratum
Bay 2002
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Dancing Show
1987
1983
14>
8-f
Bourgeois
Chestnut 1991
Luskin Star
Chestnut 1974
Kaoru Star
Promising
1965
1968
31>
2-e
Brave New World
Chestnut 1980
Vain
Undaunted
1966
1972
A10
4-n
Purely Spectacular
Bay 2006
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Humour
1965
1962
31>
16-g
Vanilla Sky
Grey 1999
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Courtza
1983
1986
8-c
13-b
Principation
Grey 1987
Prince Echo
Emancipation
1978
1979
8-c
3-l
Colour Me Pretty (NZ)
Bay 2010
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chatty Lady
1958
1961
6-d
13-b
Rhysess
Bay 2001
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Humour
1965
1962
31>
16-g
Sahrhys
Bay 1992
Oak Ridge
Bay 1980
Shirley Heights
Oak Hill
1975
1972
1-l
8-c
Eager Eyes
Bay 1976
Wandering Eyes
Lanadoone
1962
1970
3-e
8-k
 Ancestor duplications:Kaoru Star5m,5f x 5f Pins3f x 3f O'Reilly4f x 2f


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 12:08pm
Unnamed  
Wandjina (AUS)
Bay 2011
Snitzel
Bay 2002
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Dancing Show
1987
1983
14>
8-f
Snippets' Lass
Bay 1993
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
Snow Finch
Bay 1984
Storm Bird
A Realgirl
1978
1976
4-j
2-c
La Bamba
Brown 1994
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Party
Chestnut 1977
Lunchtime
Chestnut 1970
Silly Season
Great Occasion
1962
1965
1-g
7-f
Waltz
Bay 1967
Adamastor
Lady Pirouette
1959
1946
4-i
2-e
Colour Me Pretty (NZ)
Bay 2010
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chatty Lady
1958
1961
6-d
13-b
Rhysess
Bay 2001
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Humour
1965
1962
31>
16-g
Sahrhys
Bay 1992
Oak Ridge
Bay 1980
Shirley Heights
Oak Hill
1975
1972
1-l
8-c
Eager Eyes
Bay 1976
Wandering Eyes
Lanadoone
1962
1970
3-e
8-k
 Ancestor duplications:Lunchtime5m,4f x 5m Snippets4f x 4m Last Tycoon3f x 3m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Tuddy7272 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 1:57pm
Thanks everyone for your comments. I really appreciate them.

I really like both the Wandjina and Stratum Star matings with the duplications of both Last Tycoon and particularly Snippets, albeit through different mares and in different places. I just felt Stratum Star was better value given they are both unproven and Stratum Star is about $15k cheaper.

As you mentioned Second Chance, you either like inbreeding close up or you don't. Given I am only small time, I plan to sell the colts and keep the fillies and my concern is if I get a nice colt, half the market may shy away  due to the close inbreeding.

If I had more mares it is probably a mating I would take a punt on but I think to minimise risk and obtain the maximum upside it's probably best to steer clear. For that reason i'm leaning towards Star Witness or Nicconi

I think Nicconi is a bargain given what he has been able to do to date relative to I am Invincible and Star Witness for that matter but he doesn't get many that go for big money. Star Witness on the other hand isn't going as well as Nicconi at the same stages of their careers (although it is still very early) but he does get nice types that sell for good money.

The dilemmas! but that's why we love it.

Thanks again for your comments.
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Unnamed  
Star Witness (AUS)
Chestnut 2007
Starcraft
Chestnut 2000
Soviet Star
Bay 1984
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Veruschka
Bay 1967
Venture
Marie d'Anjou
1957
1954
7>
9-f
Flying Floozie
Chestnut 1993
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Lucky Heiress
Bay 1976
Battle-Waggon
Entrancing Bell
1962
1965
3-o
4-d
Leone Chiara
Chestnut 1999
Lion Hunter
Grey 1992
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Pure of Heart
Grey 1978
Godswalk
Audrey Joan
1974
1963
2-h
10-c
Chiara
Bay 1994
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Mill Princess
1975
1977
8-f
8-c
Etoile d'Or
Chestnut 1983
Diplomatic Star
Marchwill
1977
1976
22-b
13-b
Colour Me Pretty (NZ)
Bay 2010
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chatty Lady
1958
1961
6-d
13-b
Rhysess
Bay 2001
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Humour
1965
1962
31>
16-g
Sahrhys
Bay 1992
Oak Ridge
Bay 1980
Shirley Heights
Oak Hill
1975
1972
1-l
8-c
Eager Eyes
Bay 1976
Wandering Eyes
Lanadoone
1962
1970
3-e
8-k
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m Pompeii Court4f x 4f Last Tycoon4f x 3m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 2:02pm
Unnamed  
Nicconi (AUS)
Bay 2005
Bianconi
Bay or brown 1995
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Fall Aspen
Chestnut 1976
Pretense
Bay or brown 1963
Endeavour
Imitation
1942
1951
8-g
3-i
Change Water
Chestnut 1969
Swaps
Portage
1952
1952
A4
4-m
Nicola Lass
Bay 1995
Scenic
Bay 1986
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Idyllic
Black 1982
Foolish Pleasure
Where You Lead
1972
1970
14-b
14-f
Dubai Lass
Chestnut 1988
Bletchingly
Brown 1970
Biscay
Coogee
1965
1959
2-o
7-a
Frivolous Lass
Bay 1978
In the Purple
Frivole
1966
1965
11-d
10-d
Colour Me Pretty (NZ)
Bay 2010
O'Reilly
Brown 1993
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Courtza
Bay 1986
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Hunza
Brown 1970
Pakistan
Chatty Lady
1958
1961
6-d
13-b
Rhysess
Bay 2001
Pins
Bay 1996
Snippets
Bay 1984
Lunchtime
Easy Date
1970
1977
7-f
20-a
No Finer
Chestnut 1979
Kaoru Star
Humour
1965
1962
31>
16-g
Sahrhys
Bay 1992
Oak Ridge
Bay 1980
Shirley Heights
Oak Hill
1975
1972
1-l
8-c
Eager Eyes
Bay 1976
Wandering Eyes
Lanadoone
1962
1970
3-e
8-k
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 5:22pm
A more expensive option but Choisir also offers some interesting duplications and is proven -

CHOISIR/COLOUR ME PRETTY DP = 1-1-2-0-0 (4) DI = 3.00   CD = 0.75; GSV = 54.47
CHOISIR (AUS)
ch. 1999 
23-7-5-6
A$2,258,545
DANEHILL DANCER (IRE)
b. 1993 
11-4-1-1
£212,559
DANEHILL (USA)
b. 1986 
9-4-1-2
$321,065
DANZIG (USA)
b. 1977 [IC]
3-3-0-0
$32,400
NORTHERN DANCER (CAN)
b. 1961 [BC]
 NEARCTIC (CAN)br. 195414-c
NATALMA (USA)* b. 19572-d
PAS DE NOM (USA)
br. 1968
ADMIRALS VOYAGE (USA)dkb/br. 19594-n
PETITIONER (GB)*b. 19527-a
RAZYANA (USA)
b. 1981 
3-0-2-0
$2,250 in GB
HIS MAJESTY (USA)
b. 1968 [C]
RIBOT (GB)b. 1952 [CP]4-l
FLOWER BOWL (USA)*b. 19524-d
SPRING ADIEU (CAN)
b. 1974
BUCKPASSER (USA) b. 1963 [C]1-x
NATALMA (USA)* b. 19572-d
MIRA ADONDE (USA)
dkb/br. 1986 
1-0-0-0
??
SHARPEN UP (GB)
ch. 1969 [BC]
8-5-2-0
US$48,168
ATAN (USA)
ch. 1961
NATIVE DANCER (USA) gr. 1950 [IC]5-f
MIXED MARRIAGE (GB)*b. 19522-f
ROCCHETTA (GB)
ch. 1961
ROCKEFELLA (GB)br. 19417-a
CHAMBIGES (FR)b. 19495-i
LETTRE D'AMOUR (USA)
gr. 1979 
Unraced
CARO (IRE)
gr. 1967 [IC]
FORTINO (FR)gr. 19594-r
CHAMBORD (GB)ch. 19553-o
LIANGA (USA)*
gr. 1971
DANCER'S IMAGE (USA)gr. 19654-r
LEVEN ONES (USA)ch. 196122-b
GREAT SELECTION (AUS)
ch. 1990 
11-1-?-?
LUNCHTIME (GB)
ch. 1970 
 SILLY SEASON (USA)
b. 1962 
20-7+-?-?
$153,018
TOM FOOL (USA)
b. 1949 [IC]
 MENOW (USA)b. 19358-g
GAGA (USA)b. 19423-j
DOUBLE DEAL (GB)
b. 1946
STRAIGHT DEAL (GB)br. 19401-t
NONATS (GB)b. 19371-g
GREAT OCCASION (GB)
ch. 1965 
HORNBEAM (GB)
ch. 1953
HYPERION (GB) ch. 1930 [BC]6-e
THICKET (GB)b. 19471-p
GOLDEN WEDDING (GB)
br. 1959
SUNNY BRAE (IRE)br. 19483-i
FLIGHTY FALLS (GB)ch. 19527-f
PENSIVE MOOD (AUS)
ch. 1983 
?-4-?-?
BISCAY (AUS)
ch. 1965 
8-6-0-0
A$19,500
STAR KINGDOM (IRE)
ch. 1946 [IC]
 STARDUST (GB)ch. 193716
IMPROMPTU (IRE)br. 19391-g
MAGIC SYMBOL (AUS)
ch. 1956
MAKARPURA (GB)ch. 194622-c
MAGIC WONDER (AUS)br. 19492-o
STAID (AUS)
b. 1968 
-4-?-?
MINOR PORTION (GB)
ch. 1961
MAJOR PORTION (GB)ch. 19558-c
LIGHT COMMENT (GB)ch. 19493-i
STRAIGHTLACED (AUS)
b. 1955
JAMBO (GB)br. 19449-c
STAYPUT (AUS)b. 19508-f
COLOUR ME PRETTY
2010 
OREILLY (NZ)
br. 1993 
6-4-1-0
NZ$183,000 & A$70,000
LAST TYCOON (IRE)
b. 1983 
13-8-0-0
$683,438
TRY MY BEST (USA)
b. 1975 
5-4-0-0
£48,389
NORTHERN DANCER (CAN)
b. 1961 [BC]
 NEARCTIC (CAN)br. 195414-c
NATALMA (USA)* b. 19572-d
SEX APPEAL (USA)*
ch. 1970
BUCKPASSER (USA) b. 1963 [C]1-x
BEST IN SHOW (USA)*ch. 19658-f
MILL PRINCESS (IRE)
b. 1977 
5-1-0-2
$16,136
MILL REEF (USA)
b. 1968 [CS]
 NEVER BEND (USA)br. 1960 [BI]19-b
MILAN MILL (USA)*b. 196222-d
IRISH LASS (GB)
b. 1962
SAYAJIRAO (GB)br. 19443-n
SCOLLATA (GB)b. 19528-c
COURTZA (NZ)
b. 1986 
14-5-2-1
A$1,847,300
POMPEII COURT (USA)
b. 1977 
34-13-9-6
$305,309
TELL (USA)
b. 1966
ROUND TABLE (USA)br. 1954 [S]2-f
NAS-MAHAL (USA)*br. 19592-f
PORT DAMASCUS (USA)
b. 1971
DAMASCUS (USA)b. 1964 [IC]8-h
PARIS PIKE (USA)b. 19571-p
HUNZA (NZ)
br. 1970 
10-6-?-?
PAKISTAN (GB)
ch. 1958
PALESTINE (GB) gr. 19473-e
TAMBARA (IRE)ch. 19476-d
CHATTY LADY (NZ)
b. 1961
CHATSWORTH (GB)b. 195021-a
GLAMIN (NZ)b. 195213-b
RHYSESS (NZ)
b. 2001 
32-5-4-5
NZ$95,160
PINS (AUS)
b. 1996 
14-7-3-0
A$1,733,915
SNIPPETS (AUS)
b. 1984 
14-9-2-0
A$1,083,600
LUNCHTIME (GB)
ch. 1970
 SILLY SEASON (USA)b. 19621-g
GREAT OCCASION (GB)ch. 19657-f
EASY DATE (AUS)
b. 1977
GRAND CHAUDIERE (GB)b. 196819-b
SCAMPERING (AUS)b. 197120-a
NO FINER (AUS)
ch. 1979 
-1-?-?
Winner
KAORU STAR (AUS)
ch. 1965
STAR KINGDOM (IRE) ch. 1946 [IC]1-g
KAORU (AUS)ch. 195531
HUMOUR (AUS)
b. 1962
PIRATE KING (GB)b. 195321-a
REAL DELIGHT (AUS)br. 195116-h
SAHRHYS (NZ)
b. 1992 
12-4-0-0
NZ$49,425
OAK RIDGE (FR)
dkb/br. 1980 
2-0-0-0
SHIRLEY HEIGHTS (GB)
b. 1975 [CP]
MILL REEF (USA) b. 1968 [CS]22-d
HARDIEMMA (GB)b. 19691-l
OAK HILL (GB)
b. 1972
SHESHOON (GB)ch. 195614-a
TYPHA (GB)b. 19658-c
EAGER EYES (NZ)
b. 1976 
2-0-0-0
Unplaced
WANDERING EYES (IRE)
b. 1962
PALESTINE (GB) gr. 19473-e
GNEEVEBAWN (IRE)br. 19533-e
LANADOONE (NZ)
br. 1970
ARCTIC EXPLORER (GB)br. 195414-c
DELANEY (NZ)b. 19598-k
Conduit Mare Profile = 5-6-3-9-4   Speed = 11   Stamina = 13   Index = 0.95   Triads = 14-18-16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 6:25pm
Ocean Park over O'Reilly mares is an interesting cross and will no doubt be tried a few times in NZ . Manhattan Rain may be one you could look at if the mare has a good temperament . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 7:21pm
Are there many stallions left with a lot of that wonderful Kaoru Star & Star Kingdom blood?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 7:21am
Exosphere has it through his dam side, Kaoru Star through Danzero and more Star Kingdom through Marscay. There's a handful of stallions with Luskin Star - anything by Stratum has it through the sire side, same said for Strategic.

Attention has the Kaoru Star x Snippets combinations seen with Pins...

ATTENTION/COLOUR ME PRETTY DP = 0-0-0-0-0 (0) DI = Inf   CD = Inf; GSV = 49.07
ATTENTION (AUS)
ch. 2013 
10-2-3-0
A$368,000
STRATUM (AUS)
b. 2002 
18-2-5-2
A$2,244,500
REDOUTE'S CHOICE (AUS)
b. 1996 
10-5-1-2
A$1,535,350
DANEHILL (USA)
b. 1986
DANZIG (USA) b. 1977 [IC]7-a
RAZYANA (USA)b. 19812-d
SHANTHAS CHOICE (AUS)
b. 1992
CANNY LAD (AUS)br. 198714
DANCING SHOW (USA)b. 19838-f
BOURGEOIS (AUS)
ch. 1991 
Unraced
LUSKIN STAR (AUS)
ch. 1974
KAORU STAR (AUS) ch. 196531
PROMISING (NZ)ch. 19682-e
BRAVE NEW WORLD (AUS)
ch. 1980
VAIN (AUS) ch. 1966A10
UNDAUNTED (AUS)dkb/br. 19724-n
FLAMBOYANCE (AUS)
ch. 2004 
14-0-4-2
A$8,500
SNOWLAND (AUS)
dkb/br. 1999 
17-9-2-1
A$1,140,660
SNIPPETS (AUS)
b. 1984
 LUNCHTIME (GB) ch. 19707-f
EASY DATE (AUS)b. 197720-a
SNOWDRIFT (FR)
b. 1994
POLISH PRECEDENT (USA)b. 19868-h
SNOWTOP (IRE)b. 198313-e
VAIN DEB (AUS)
ch. 1992 
2-0-0-0
Unplaced
VAIN (AUS)
ch. 1966
 WILKES (FR)ch. 195213-c
ELATED (AUS)b. 1957A10
PALM BEACH DEB (USA)
ch. 1983
AKUREYRI (CAN)b. 197822-b
MORNING BIRD (USA)dkb/br. 19678-c
COLOUR ME PRETTY
2010 
OREILLY (NZ)
br. 1993 
6-4-1-0
NZ$183,000 & A$70,000
LAST TYCOON (IRE)
b. 1983 
13-8-0-0
$683,438
TRY MY BEST (USA)
b. 1975
NORTHERN DANCER (CAN) b. 1961 [BC]2-d
SEX APPEAL (USA)*ch. 19708-f
MILL PRINCESS (IRE)
b. 1977
MILL REEF (USA) b. 1968 [CS]22-d
IRISH LASS (GB)b. 19628-c
COURTZA (NZ)
b. 1986 
14-5-2-1
A$1,847,300
POMPEII COURT (USA)
b. 1977
TELL (USA)b. 19662-f
PORT DAMASCUS (USA)b. 19711-p
HUNZA (NZ)
br. 1970
PAKISTAN (GB)ch. 19586-d
CHATTY LADY (NZ)b. 196113-b
RHYSESS (NZ)
b. 2001 
32-5-4-5
NZ$95,160
PINS (AUS)
b. 1996 
14-7-3-0
A$1,733,915
SNIPPETS (AUS)
b. 1984
 LUNCHTIME (GB) ch. 19707-f
EASY DATE (AUS)b. 197720-a
NO FINER (AUS)
ch. 1979
KAORU STAR (AUS) ch. 196531
HUMOUR (AUS)b. 196216-h
SAHRHYS (NZ)
b. 1992 
12-4-0-0
NZ$49,425
OAK RIDGE (FR)
dkb/br. 1980
SHIRLEY HEIGHTS (GB)b. 1975 [CP]1-l
OAK HILL (GB)b. 19728-c
EAGER EYES (NZ)
b. 1976
WANDERING EYES (IRE)b. 19623-e
LANADOONE (NZ)br. 19708-k
Conduit Mare Profile = 4-6-4-11-4   Speed = 10   Stamina = 15   Index = 0.78   Triads = 14-21-19
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:09am
Attention looks wonderful.

Your right about Strategic too. I dont have access to the stud book anymore.  What stallions are dominated by him at the moment?

Sorry for all the questionsEmbarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:33am
Studbook isn't playing ball, but Strategic seems to be coming through as a BM sire. Look for the Darley breds - Furnaces & Holler both have him as BM Sire and are now at stud. Furnaces is interesting - direct female line of Zeditave (4th dam Summoned)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 10:24am
I am always a believer in trying to understand the female family when looking at planning a mating.  The mare, Colour Me Lucky is from the same family as the wonderful Leilani, so looking at this mare is worthwhile in that it gives us an opportunity of remembering (or investigating if you are younger) the deeds of a real crowd favourite.  Leilani's best descendant is a very good Brisbane galloper in Hopfgarten who is by Mossman by Success Express.  Before we get to Leilani though, Colour Me Lucky is a half sister to a very good horse in Hong Kong called Flame Hero who is by Savabeel.  Maybe coincidentally, Savabeel is by Zabeel out of Savannah Express, a daughter of Success Express.

I will get back to this later, but I certainly know that I would be looking at this coincidence a little more closely when planning a mating for the mare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 1:26pm
An interesting mare who decends from a Great mare in Lady Chester.  Lady Chester's female line is still producing to this day but her son Chester won as a two year old - AJC Champagne S (5f), AJC Sires' Produce S etc he won the Melbourne Cup 16f and VRC Derby 12f as a three year old while the following few seasons he won numerous stakes over 10f to 24f.  Kingston Town won the eqivilent stakes races from 5f to 16f so as you can see Chester was exceptional.

On the whole the best seem to be middle distance to stayers and the pedigrees have not been overly inbred.  You'll find that is common with staying families.

If you look at recent stakes winners like Flame Hero (no inbreeding in the first 5 generations), Rhysess (as with Flame Hero), Sahrhys (also no close inbreeding) you go back a little to find a G1 winner of the NZ Oaks in Merry Roe (likewise no inbreeding in 5 generations).

Chester wasn't so outbred with Sir Hercules 4f x 5m, Sultan 5f x 5m, Whisker 5m x 5m, 5f, Sir Hercules 4f x 5m etc.  Nothing closer than that 4th generation.

This tells me that maybe the Stratum Star would be to closely inbred for this family.

You can find another line of Lady Chester who also gives you relatively recent G1 winners with Leica Lover inbred to Hurry On 4m x 5f, Pharaoh Nearco 5f x 5m, Redding 3m x 4m to Nasrullah's son Red God, Leica Show Sir Cosmo 4f x 5m.  All not over cluttered pedigrees.

While if Chesters pedigree is studied it seems that every inbreeding has a m x f element.  That is very hard to achieve but obviously worked well there.

One young stallion who doesn't involve to close an inbreeding but offers much in interest is Zoustar with the Redoute's CHoice/Last Tycoon cross.  A different line of Star Kingdom through Star Shower who is inbred to Hyperion (same family as Sir Tristram) while you get another line of Lunchtime through Redoute's and Star Way also from the Sir Tristram family.  While Zoustar himself decends from a different branch of the Lady Chester female line.

As Progold says above Savabeel is or great interest but not cheap or in Australia.

Other young sires with blood which is interesting for your mare could be Albrecht, Alpine Eagle, Dundeel (gives a m x f for Kaoru Star), Exosphere, Xtravagant etc.

Good luck in your hunt for a best mate for you mare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 1:43pm
Thanks again everyone. The comments have been very positive and thought provoking.
Thinking about your comments Furious and Progold, it has me looking further into Shamus Award. You get the Redoutes through Snitzel and Success Express via Sunset Express and end up with Snippets 4m x 4f.

Lots to think about and research.

Thanks all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 3:52pm
and both crosses are m x f so good find by Progold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:17pm
stratum star looks good. other ones to consider is:
Pluck, both his stakes performers have Grey Flight (found in snippets pedigree). he also has sadler's wells, the bold reason x never bend nick has worked rather well, adding sadler's wells would bring in a lot of successful nicks with her bloodlines
I would suggest I am Invisible but he is rather expensive now, most of his best performers and a lot of stakes winners in his family have Grey flight in their pedigree so he could be a future option if she turns out to be a good broodmare. 
and since I think adding sadler's wells or his brother Fairy King would be beneficial as well as adding Success Express for the reasons outlined by progold that Delago Deluxe could be another option  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 5:23pm
A big consideration here must be the risk in overcapitalising the mare.  The mare herself made $80,000 as a yearling but we must note that O'Reilly yearlings averaged over $120,000 that year.  The only close up addition to the pedigree page is the HK horse, Flame Hero who is stakes placed at Group 2 and Group 3 level.  Clearly, the thought of marketing the progeny to HK buyers must be considered.  To this end, a stallion like Holy Roman Emperor becomes more commercially viable.  The mare has visited Bradbury's Luck and Rich Enuff to date, so neither are likely to be sales topping sires.  The progeny is probably unlikely to have done much before this resultant foal goes to sale.  We then have the dilemma of what to do.  Do you seek a new sire and hope to strike it rich on that basis, or pursue a stallion that gives you more of a chance of producing a runner?

Imagine that we consider the mare's pedigree would make her progeny likely to bring $50-70k at sale if all goes well, and we can go up and down from here depending upon the fashion of the stallion/sale from there.

Shamus Award ticks a few boxes, but at $27500 and say $30k expenses to the end of the sale, we are in the middle of our estimated range.  Given that the stallion is coming up to his 4th season, he could well be dead in the water by then.  His yearlings average around $87k for this season, and again looking at this mare making about 2/3 of her sire's average, it still brings me back to around that $60k mark that I would at if trying to do a valuation of the foal now.  But more than most stallions, the value will be impacted directly by the performance of his first couple of crops.

On my early comments re Success Express, there are two less expensive options than Shamus Award.  Clearly there is Mossman himself whose yearlings this year averaged $90k and he won't be active all that much longer.  While the pedigree certainly will not excite anyone in terms of inbreeding, it does introduce lines that have worked with the family.  His fee last year was $16500, and he only covered 45 mares, so one would imagine that this is fairly flexible.  There is a realistic chance of a modest profit, and a reasonable racing prospect.

The other Mossman option is his son, Love Conquers All who stands in Qld where the mare is located.  He is out of a NZ mare, so while again not offering that much in terms of inbreeding is not all that bad, and the sire is doing a reasonable job.  His yearlings average just under $50k, so hardly a big winner financially unless something changes, but he looks to be back down to $11k and his biggest crops are about to hit the track.

Another factor that gets forgotten in these discussions, is what the aim of the mating is.  A stallion like Rich Enough, or even Love Conquers all is unlikely to produce anything that is going to get past a mile.  Given that the family has a number of staying types, including the half brother that earned his black type past 2000m, we should ask if we want to try and introduce true stamina into the mating.  Sadler's Wells of course is an option with the likes of Bullet Train, Adelaide or sons of High Chaparral.  Zabeel remains an important source of stamina and Reset can get a stayer, but Victoria might be too far to go.  

Probably a left field option, although one that could well be worth pursuing in terms of pedigree, stamina and sales is the first season sire, Xtravagant.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 9:49pm
Thanks very much for the analysis Progold, much appreciated.

To give you some background, I initially went to Bradbury's Luck as at the stage Flame Hero hadn't yet won black type so I was just going to breed to race and was able to get the Redoute's/Last Tycoon cross cheaply. I got a nice filly so I will keep her and race her in QLD.

However, then Flame Hero won the G3 in Hong Kong and Colour Me Pretty became more of a commercial breeding proposition than a straightforward breed to race mare.

Not wanting to spend a fortune on stallion fees, I decided to go to Rich Enuff as I liked the duplication of Last Tycoon and Snippets on both sides of the pedigree although as Furious has pointed out, success in the 8-k family has typically come with limited inbreeding. In any case, he was my punt at a first season sire at the right price and I am happy with the mating and only time will tell whether it works or not. 

As to where to go from here, I feel that if I am to give the mare a chance to be commercial I need to go to a stallion that is having some success both on the track and in the sales ring. While I really like the idea of Shamus Award, Love Conquers All, Xtravagant, I think they would be better matings down the track. For that reason I am leaning towards either Nicconi or Star Witness, most probably Nicconi purely from a value point of view. The irony is i'm not all that excited about a colt or a filly from either of these sires but I hope (and think) the market might. I think what i would do, all going well, is sell the resulting yearling and buy another filly from another family to diversify a bit. After all, Im playing a long game here.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 10:02pm
I like the run down that Furious provided on Zoustar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 10:39pm
if you are looking for a stallion that will likely produce a yearling attractive to the market, than how about Press Statement?

he has lots of bloodlines that would give plenty of options when breeding later on like he has hinchinbrook so progeny might go well with any Snitzel stallion or mare later on, he has Royal Academy so Storm Cat would match, then you have Kaapstad who is related to Octagonal so Lonhro stallions/mares would suit too. 

when looking at a stallion for your mare its a good idea to think about what buyers are looking for and quite often its not just to race but what is the residual value? if its a filly would it be easy to find a good match for when it goes to the breeding barn or would you be left scratching your head because there is very little in the way of familiar bloodlines to work with? eg Animal Kingdom 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldship Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 10:19pm
Wouldn't the most "commercial decision" is to send her to savabeel? The hong kong people would buy it being a 3/4 yearling to a hong kong group 3 winner?? Cost and risk more, but the potential return is far greater than sending her to star witness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 9:19am
Cost and risk significantly more Goldship. $NZ100k service plus the flight over there vs $16k to Nicconi and a float trip. That may be something you do with a barn full of broodmares but not for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 9:39am
If you are purely aiming to sell to Hong Kong then holy Roman emperor would be a no brainer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 6:10pm
Aquis advertise on their website that they have strong connections to racing in HK and agisting and yearling preps at their farm can put in the shop window . HRE is also advertised as champion stallion in HK .
 I agree with brad, from a commercial standpoint its a no brainer .  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 1:24pm
A little issue with the idea of HRE as a commercial prospect is whether you can get the yearling into a sale that HK buyers will be attending.  

To take up a comment a little earlier, There are a couple of reasons why colts sell better than fillies.  First is the hope that they go on to become stallions and then the financial return can be huge.  This is highly unlikely unless you are purchasing at the very top of the market.  The most important reason is that colts and geldings are more likely to go to Asia.  Very few Asian buyers are looking at fillies.  Seeing as fillies have more races, such as Oaks and a host of Fillies and mares black type (but don't get me started on that), and often retain a residual broodmare value, it is a little surprising that they are not more favoured in the sales ring especially for the purchaser of more modest means.

So; onto the potential sales of progeny of Nicconi and Star Witness.  Nicconi will stand this season for $16500 and served over 200 mares last season.  The two seasons before were his lowest by number so it is possible that he will have a bit of a lull.  Not many of his yearlings have gone through the ring this year, and they have averaged around $70k with his fillies surprisingly averaging a little more than his colts.  I would think that best case for a Nicconi x Colour Me Pretty is around $40-50k so not a lot of profit likely if any.  The mating hardly looks like it will produce anything special, so there doesn't look to be a long-term benefit to a breeding plan.

Star Witness also covered some 200 mares last year, but on the back of Global Glamour, his progeny averaged almost $100k this year.  His sons averaged around $125k while his fillies only $70k.  It must be noted that his sales results increased quite a bit this year, highlighting the fickle nature of bloodstock values.  Based on this, and the fact that the pedigree that looks superior to the Nicconi mating, this would seem to be a better option commercially.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuddy7272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 12:29pm
Progold, I agree with your comments regarding HRE. I really like him as a stallion and I think he would really suit my mare as he can get a stayer and as has previously been discussed Colour Me Pretty is from a staying family and looked to us as if she would stay.

So if i got a filly i would be more than happy to keep her and race her but as you pointed out, if i get a colt, i'm not sure what sale he can make which i think limits him commercially. Having said that, given his service fee is very competitive at $9900 I could always keep the colt and race him myself.

My dilemma with Nicconi or Star Witness is i wouldn't want to keep either a colt or filly, i would sell both. I dont think either mating is all that attractive but as you pointed out, it's a fickle game and the flavour of the month is what sells so from a commercial point point of view it probably works. However, my view is that i need to breed runners, as opposed to sellers. If you can breed runners early, the sale results will come down the track. On that basis I am now leaning towards HRE and i'll keep the foal to race.
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