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Nature Strip

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Atreus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 7:06pm
Australian racing badly need to limit the number of horses one trainer can train.  The Waller and Weir stables need to be broken up.  No way one trainer can train as many horses as they already have.  So you don't know which trainers Waller and Weir train and which are trained by the subtrainers

Most sports have rules such as salary caps designed to keep the competition somewhat level

Racing is allowing the domination of the biggest stables to get out of control

You need to tip up the monopoly board from time to time and reset the game
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TJMitchell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Australian racing badly need to limit the number of horses one trainer can train.  The Waller and Weir stables need to be broken up.  No way one trainer can train as many horses as they already have.  So you don't know which trainers Waller and Weir train and which are trained by the subtrainers

Most sports have rules such as salary caps designed to keep the competition somewhat level

Racing is allowing the domination of the biggest stables to get out of control

You need to tip up the monopoly board from time to time and reset the game


I can tell you exactly which ones are trained by the big boys and which aren't. $$$$$
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 8:04pm
The owners are the one paying the bills, they can send it to whomever they want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 8:07pm
John Sadler is no longer the trainer of hyped-sprinter Nature Strip with connections moving the horse to Darren Weir.

Part-owner Rod Lyons confirmed on Tuesday afternoon that Nature Strip will be changing stable and may still potentially race again this preparation.

Nature Strip started his career with Robert Smerdon, winning three of his first four races before moving to Robert Hickmott after Smerdon was stood down.

Hickmott oversaw Nature Strip's win in the Inglis Dash before the horse was then placed under the care of Sadler.

Nature Strip was beaten as a short-priced favourite at Caulfield on April 21, his first run since January, and an inquiry was subsequently opened into the tactics of Craig Williams.

The son of Nicconi again started favourite in the Group 2 Euclase Stakes in Adelaide and led at a strong tempo before finishing fourth to I'll Have A Bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I like that question, are there not any other capable trainers.

Has Mick Price lost his trainers guide? Ciaron Maher has shown he can place a group 1 quality horse properly. Is there a reason John McArdle and Andrew Noblet do not get gallopers sent to them when a change of stables is being sought.

Ellerton and Zahra are a prominent, capable duo.

If you are looking to get away from the city I understand, but there are capable trainers other than Weir!


Weir is the leading trainer in the state. Why would they send a horse to a second rate trainer when you can send it to the best in the business.... the owners believe this horse is Group 1 standard. Sometimes to be the best, you need to be trained by he best. That’s how the world works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 8:14pm
I totally agree with that Prince, and I am a huge fan and have enormous respect for Weir and Waller.

But if I owned Nature Strip, this would be the second stable change in a short period of time, and I would think it is due diligence, to look at a huge stable and ask the question how much time will you be spending at the complex my horse is stabled at, and how much of my horses trackwork and prep work is being supervised by a foreman.

On the weekend we saw Tracey Bartley who has 14 in work, win two stakes races and a sales based race with good prizemoney with three horses, because he knows his horses and the owners trust his judgement because he sees his horses every morning and in fact he still rides them in work.

But as you sate owners have the right to make a judgement.    
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 8:18pm
Hickmott, Sadler and Smerdon are/were all in the same stabling complex at Caulfield. The horse may of changed trainers but his environment hasn’t changed.
My understanding is the horse doesn’t like being boxed up and the owners feel as though he might settle down on race day, if he can be trained in a more relaxed environment.
I believe he is going to be sent to the beach which he should appreciate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Australian racing badly need to limit the number of horses one trainer can train.  The Waller and Weir stables need to be broken up.  No way one trainer can train as many horses as they already have.  So you don't know which trainers Waller and Weir train and which are trained by the subtrainers

Most sports have rules such as salary caps designed to keep the competition somewhat level

Racing is allowing the domination of the biggest stables to get out of control

You need to tip up the monopoly board from time to time and reset the game
Absolutely agree with what you are saying.

Having other trainers train your horses and then say you are the trainer is not right.

There should be a cap on the number of horses that you train and can claim under your name.

Racing looks boring when someone tries to monopolise it!
"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 11:56am

John Sadler told Nature Strip taken off him due to Neerim Lodge association

An “extremely disappointed” John Sadler says he was told Nature Strip was taken off him because of the publicity associated with training under the Neerim Lodge (formerly Aquanita) banner.

Neerim Lodge trainer Sadler says he fielded a call from one of Nature Strip’s part-owners on Monday who informed him the talented sprinter was being switched to the Darren Weir stable.

All Blacks rugby coach Steve Hansen is another of Nature Strip owners and Sadler has been told Hansen didn’t like the adverse publicity the Aquanita hearings had brought. 

Last week, eight former employees of the Aquanita training base were found guilty of more than 270 charges of pre-race treatment with trainer Robert Smerdon and stablehands Greg and Denise Nelligan copping the harshest penalties when they were handed life bans.

Aquanita Racing was renamed and rebranded as Neerim Lodge in January.

However Sadler says, despite what he was told by Nature Strip’s part-owner, he has no doubt he would still be training the sprinter if he had won one of his two starts for him.

“I got a phone call from one of the smaller part-owners who told me the horse was going to Darren Weir,” Sadler told Racenet.

“I asked why and was told it was because some of the owners didn’t like the publicity of the Aquanita stuff.

“But truth be told, I honestly believe I would still be training the horse if he had won one of his starts for me.

“The whole situation is extremely disappointing.”

There has rarely been a three-year-old horse who has had more trainers than Nature Strip which started his career with Robert Smerdon before being moved to Robert Hickmott after Smerdon was stood down.

Hickmott had Nature Strip for one win before the horse was placed under Sadler’s care, with his first run resulting in a second placing as short-priced favourite at Caulfield where stewards opened an inquiry into the tactics of jockey Craig Williams.

Nature Strip was then unplaced in Adelaide and Sadler was planning to set him for some “easy kills” down the Flemington straight in June before learning he had lost the horse.

“I was probably fortunate to get the horse in the first place, but it has all been a bit disappointing ever since,” Sadler said.

“Craig Williams rode the horse badly in his first start for me and now what has happened has happened.”

http://www.racenet.com.au/news/john-sadler-told-nature-strip-taken-off-him-due-to-neerim-lodge-association-20180516

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:08pm
Thumbs Up Anti Neerim

Thumbs Down Weir 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Australian racing badly need to limit the number of horses one trainer can train.  The Waller and Weir stables need to be broken up.  No way one trainer can train as many horses as they already have.  So you don't know which trainers Waller and Weir train and which are trained by the subtrainers

Most sports have rules such as salary caps designed to keep the competition somewhat level

Racing is allowing the domination of the biggest stables to get out of control

You need to tip up the monopoly board from time to time and reset the game


I can tell you exactly which ones are trained by the big boys and which aren't. $$$$$

There was a Racing.com feature on a trainer named Bowman and he admitted he was the trainer of Signoff.

Just confirmed what I always thought.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 4:03pm
Waller 5 winners from the first 6 races in Sydney today so far

Weir 3 winners from the first 7 races in Melbourne today so far

The concentration of good horses in these 2 stables has gone too far
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:46pm
Of those weir runners, how many did he lay eyes on in the past week
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Of those weir runners, how many did he lay eyes on in the past week


Why does it matter? If he has a system that produces results and has good people around him capable of implementing that system, isn't that enough?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by robbo robbo wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Of those weir runners, how many did he lay eyes on in the past week


Why does it matter? If he has a system that produces results and has good people around him capable of implementing that system, isn't that enough?

I don't think so.
I recall Weir talking about one of his G1 winners that won fu recently.
He was giving the book stable a rap
Said he saw it for the first time ages I prior & thought they had messed up, he thought it was not ready.

He's clearly not training it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:55pm
Saw it one week prior to racing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:56pm
Well Robbo, what if one of todays winners produces a positive?

All Weir has to do is say, I was at the beach all week and never saw the horse, so I have no idea how the bi-carb level was over the threshold.

But as you say, if Wier is prepared to take that risk, then that is his prerogative.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Well Robbo, what if one of todays winners produces a positive?

All Weir has to do is say, I was at the beach all week and never saw the horse, so I have no idea how the bi-carb level was over the threshold.

But as you say, if Wier is prepared to take that risk, then that is his prerogative.


I'm not suggesting that a trainer can abrogate his-her responsibilities to adhere to the Rules of Racing through delegating. I am saying that there are different ways for a training establishment to operate, and that just because Weir mightn't see every horse every day that therefore his operation is somehow deficient. It mightn't be what I would like as an owner, but that is the owner's prerogative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 6:31pm
He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WarriSymbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 6:38pm
If you can't beat them, join them.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.



If he does not see them how does he know what work they need or don't need ?



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.



If he does not see them how does he know what work they need or don't need ?



Because he pays staff who report back to him , daily, in detail.
He is the CEO.
They are across all things related to the business and have staff in place to assist and take the orders. It’s how business works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 8:04pm
Neerim - what a sad loss....lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.

Well, trainer Bowman, who was one of his many foreman’s said that Weir threw 20 horses his way and he said you train them and I will tell you what races to run them in. I wonder if the said owners of these horses were paying Weir rates or the rates for one of his foreman’s to have a crack!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rusty101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.



If he does not see them how does he know what work they need or don't need ?



Because he pays staff who report back to him , daily, in detail.
He is the CEO.
They are across all things related to the business and have staff in place to assist and take the orders. It’s how business works.
  


Drinking too much of that Warrnambool saltwater? You're effectively saying that even his assistant staff are superior horsemen to 90% of trainers today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:33pm
Wtf are you taking about?
Go back and read what I said and have another go.

His staff are told what to do, and they do it.
It’s no different to how any company works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by monty1 monty1 wrote:

Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

He may not see all horses everyday, but he most certainly sets the work for every single horse. I’ve seen his work board, the man is a freak. Don’t know how he does it , but he does.

Well, trainer Bowman, who was one of his many foreman’s said that Weir threw 20 horses his way and he said you train them and I will tell you what races to run them in. I wonder if the said owners of these horses were paying Weir rates or the rates for one of his foreman’s to have a crack!


I can assure you that you have blown that way out of proportion.
I have had horses in the stable for 14 years and not once has that happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rusty101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

Wtf are you taking about?
Go back and read what I said and have another go.

His staff are told what to do, and they do it.
It’s no different to how any company works.


Based on the superior eye & judgement reports of assistant staff Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ozberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:09am
Wasting your time with the Weir bashers Tillyras, Weiry will just keep rolling along breaking records, how come no one brings up the sook from sydney
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:28am
strewth just go back a day in this thread and you will see Waller is mentioned in conjunction with Weir about stables that are too large!

To follow your line
Ozberry of no use talking to Weir haters then you might as well say no use talking to Weir lovers as they only see what they want to see.

Not really a good way to argue the pros and cons as to why large stables are good for racing, especially when horses are trained by others at different locations and then claimed to be trained by Weir or Waller.

I don't mind the argument put by Tillyras that Weir is like a CEO of a company, but then surely his horses are trained by the Company.
It then does not seem fair that all horses in the care of the Company are not registered as being trained by the Company and not in the single name of Weir.

Why not have a training Company called Weir, McLean, Bowman just like Hayes, Hayes, Dabernig which seems more transparent to me.

"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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