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My turn for stallion advice

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Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 5:17pm
Any input much appreciated aside from the negative quality of the recent dam line LOL

Breed to race and below 15,000K

Dykun Vovk by Loup Sauvage out of Savage Bliss. Originally a highly rated mating from some of the "commercial" mating analyst companies

I havent seen any stats for Loup as a broodmare sire but I think he's been going okay

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 5:41pm
Shrunk, the mare in question is listed as retired so hope you've able to get her back into the Studbook.

You clearly realize the challenge you face, but have an arguably breed-to-race special for you mate, ie Needs Further in Tassie.

First off he's proving very successful if essentially in the Apple Isle, and secondly, he matches really well with the mare from a line-breeding perspective.  Further details if needed.

Over to others.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 5:51pm
Whilst closer to home, if just a little more expensive, the as-yet unproven Cluster appears to possess some positives also.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 6:12pm
Thanks 2nd.
Yes, she dropped from the stud book but am I keen to have one more go with her.
I intentionally sent the dam to loud sauvage. I loved that mating at the time.

Tassie is a bridge too far but I’ll look at Cluster, he was certainly a talented horse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rem286 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 9:55pm
Mikki Isle.  Deep Impact loves Loup Sauvage and you also get a cross of Nureyev and River Lady.

His first foals have gone for good money in Japan and from what I have heard he is throwing a nice type.

In my unqualified opinion, he is the best son of Deep Impact standing in Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 10:51pm
Assuming we are talking Victoria here, and also thinking that $15k is a bit more than you should really be spending on a service fee for this mare.  It is a pretty decent family of the likes of Mr Murphy and Zonda, although plenty of other decent runners like one called Siri Nelg who was more than useful if not top notch.

At the top price range, one I don't mind for the mare is Fighting Sun.  My personal feeling is that it the fee is more than you should be looking at, but the mating offers a pretty decent balance and mix of influences.

An unproven sire, and again not the cheapest option, is Holler who I think might prove a reasonable prospect.  Another overall solid mating focusing on a number of speed influences that have proven important in the family.

An underrated stallion moving back to Victoria this season is Ilovethiscity who has gotten a more than handy one in El Dorado Dreaming but that might affect his price this year.  Again breeding to a number of speed influences, but the critical part of this mating to me is that it reinforces the strength of the female line, rather than the relatively unsuccessful Loup Sauvage part of the mare's pedigree.

A more left field prospect is Lucas Cranach.  Breeding towards more of the stamina type influences that we saw successful in the likes of Zonda and Sou'Wester,  it is the type of mating that would be influenced largely on type, and of course we know little about type as far as the mare is concerned.  A weakness of the mating is that it probably reinforces the stallion side of the mare's pedigree, but not one that should be discounted out of hand.

The budget prospect is God's Own.  Again really reinforcing the female side of the mare's pedigree, and a good overall balance.   The stallion has certainly under performed, but has produced plenty of decent runners, so while we aren't expecting a stakes performer, it should be a good chance of being a sound racing prospect for relatively little outlay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 7:52am
So sorry progold, you put in that effort and the horse is in NSW

Sooboog and Denman seem like good matches but am I right in saying that Denman has been struggling a bit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 8:28am
Did some work last night and found some nice looking matches to my amateur eye.
Furnaces, Sheer talent, Stryker for cheapies
Starspangledbanner and sooboog at my upper end
Am I off the mark?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 10:24am
Hi shrunk in the wash.  Have a grandaughter here at the moment but will look when I get the chance.  Out with her yesterday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 10:44am
Great stuff mate, enjoy that kids company. Much more rewarding than my broken down mareLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 11:38am
Ok had a quick look when I finished morning run.  The line has thrown very good horses to Danehill, Showdown, Biscay, Sostenuto, Newtown Wonder etc.

Horses I would look for in the sire are Ribot, Biscay/Bletchingly/ Luskin Star (he has Idomeneo to cross to your line of Sostenuto), Special to cross to your line of Nureyev.  More 1-w to cross to Alycidon (you get that in Luskin Star also) and nothing wrong to looking for other lines of Lalun (Bold Reason is her other son to cross to Never Bend) or Red Briar through Mill Reef and Pipe of Peace who are from the family of Red Anchor.

So you have lots to work with.  As Danehill has Ribot you pretty much can look at most stallions in Australia.  So then try to add in other lines of interest for the above.  That includes any with the Danehill/Zabeel or Danehill/Sadlers Wells or Encosta cross.  Those give you Ribot, Bold Reason (Lanlan) and Special blood.  So very potent to look for.  Plenty of them around.  Even the young stallion Adelaide who doesn't have Danehill has Mill Reef to put in that other cross to your mare.

Now Century and Showdown liked each other and Century is a son of Better Boy by My Babu from the 1-w family.  So while back a bit that blood can be looked at.

One stallion Benfica (Zabeel/Danehill cross) is also from another branch of  the female line of Dykun Vovk so that shows you that the Lonhro line should cross alright.

So as you can see alot of the above have strains of that blood.  Probably the best performed stallion in you price bracket and having some of the above lines would be Artie Schiller with Special, Bold REason and Ribot.

But of the unproven younger brigade I quite like Swear or Stratum Star.  Roman Emperor has an interesting pedigree to cross to her also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rem286 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 12:41pm
Mikki Isle carries Ribot, Special and Hail to Reason (sire of Bold Reason)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 6:08pm
So now we know that the mare is in NSW, I really wish it was in Victoria.  I think there are probably a few more interesting matings there, but having said that, NSW stallions have their attraction.  The mare seems such a risky proposition it is also hard to know exactly where to head.  There is a temptation to go with a few real budget options.

Murtajill is probably the least expensive option, advertised at $4400 but possibly a bit cheaper, and offers an interesting mating with the Rock Of Gibraltar/Riveerman relationship being a feature.  This probably breeds a little away from the female strengths.

Stryker is another at the lower level, advertised at $5500.  Probably a stronger mating with a real focus on the Showdown/Bletchingly influence in the female line of both stallion and mare.

A similar type mating to these two is Al Maher, a son of Danehill.  A pretty well performed stallion, and a solid mating so a good chance of a solid racing prospect.

Another proven stallion in Starspangledbanner who brings in a range of fertility issues unfortunately, and this makes it especially hard with the mare.  Nevertheless, it looks an attractive mating which is largely an outcross which has had considerable success in the family while still focusing more on the Australian lines of the pedigrees.

Of the unproven stallions, Headwater is another with the Danehill/Bletchingly influences that are likely to be attractive.  Again this is the top of the price range, but a good looking mating if you like the stallion.   He is in his third season, and his numbers dropped from season 1 to 2, so probably a deal to be had.

Rubick is the other unproven stallion that has appeal for me.  He brings in a lot of the positives including Rock Of Gibraltar through his female line.  His yearlings have been fairly up and down, and they will hit the track this coming season, so another that is likely to deal on price.  Fertility isn't that great but OK, and a lot comes down to physical factors especially in these two unproven stallions.

The final suggestion is again the left field one looking towards the stamina influences that have been successful in a few family members.  Much harder to find in NSW, but the interesting one here in my view is Roman Emperor.  He is getting a pretty decent record going, especially as his progeny get a bit older, and there is no surprise in that.  It is possible that he might be a better physical match than any of the others, so it will be interesting to hear a bit about the type of mare we are dealing with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 6:32pm
Shrunk will no doubt be pleased we've now narrowed his search to about a dozen or so stallions.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 8:11pm
How’s everyone feeling about Headwater? The yearlings seem nice, does anyone have any in work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rem286 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 9:27pm
Headwaters oldest are weanlings.  I have a mare in foal to him and from what I have seen of the weanlings he is throwing a good type.  A lot of talk about him at the sales.  Hopefully they can run as well as they look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 1:19am
Originally posted by rem286 rem286 wrote:

Headwaters oldest are weanlings.  I have a mare in foal to him and from what I have seen of the weanlings he is throwing a good type.  A lot of talk about him at the sales.  Hopefully they can run as well as they look.


Getting ahead of myself there
I liked his progeny but just looking at his immediate family, there are quite a few very expensive milk-drinkers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 8:38am
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Shrunk will no doubt be pleased we've now narrowed his search to about a dozen or so stallions.Smile


I’m loving it 2nd

Great in put folks, glad to see my thinking was kinda on the right track looking for more of that Bletchingly blood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 8:56am
I’ve stumbled across a stallion by the name of Skyclad, never heard of him but he ticks a lot of those crosses you guys have ment

He’s by Snitzel out of a Strategic mare. A city winner with a heap of pace by the looks of it
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Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 11:44am
Just remember you are trying to breed a winner and as most stallions don't really fire it's better to go to the best you can go to within your price range and that is not always the dearest either. You have to look at the cross, pedigree and performance.  Interesting cross yes but as a racehorse he left a bit to be desired so the chances of his getting a good one are very slim.  You could even look at the cross of Showdown through his daughter Show Day and think maybe this doesn't work.  She had 6 starts for $0 and 0 places.

You find that Loulou was much better with 2 wins but still you don't find that stakes class that perhaps is needed to bring the best out in your mare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Just remember you are trying to breed a winner and as most stallions don't really fire it's better to go to the best you can go to within your price range and that is not always the dearest either.



A great reminder mate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Just remember you are trying to breed a winner and as most stallions don't really fire it's better to go to the best you can go to within your price range and that is not always the dearest either.



A great reminder mate


Please give a thought to type as well when breeding - pedigree is just letters on a page if you’re not getting a physical specimen capable of running. Post a picture etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 6:53pm
Thanks for all the advice folks but for multiple reasons I’ve decided to go to Furnaces. It was a tough decision.

Gay, any chance you could post one of those 7 or 8 generation snapshots that you did for storm siren
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 7:10pm
Click image to enlarge


Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 7:26pm
Well Shrunk, you'll only have yourself to congratulate should the time come.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 10:32am
you're not wrong mate.
I really like the balance of that pedigree that Gay kindly put up for me.
Besides that, I always had an opinion of Furnaces as a horse and stallion prospect.
Finally, he's standing only an hour away from where the mare is even though thats not a major factor
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