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MORE DRUG DEATHS - Event Date: 13 Jan 2019

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Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


I see - legalise it like gambling, alcohol & tobacco - let it flourish & then tax the living daylights out of it & make it another government revenue stream. All these things are addictions. You mat be one of the fortunate ones who can control their exposure. Many cant. I'd go as far as saying the majority of the population have some addictive behaviour to at least one of these four things (some type of illegal drug the other) 




The extra government revenue is just a side benefit OneOne. It’s mainly that no one should be telling someone else what they can and can’t do with their body.



So that should then extend to every other rule in society that is aimed at protecting people from themselves?
Or do you just draw the line at drugs?
Are you a user by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


I see - legalise it like gambling, alcohol & tobacco - let it flourish & then tax the living daylights out of it & make it another government revenue stream. All these things are addictions. You mat be one of the fortunate ones who can control their exposure. Many cant. I'd go as far as saying the majority of the population have some addictive behaviour to at least one of these four things (some type of illegal drug the other) 




The extra government revenue is just a side benefit OneOne. It’s mainly that no one should be telling someone else what they can and can’t do with their body.


That goes back to the other thread where suicide is discussed..   Families cant forcibly make members go get help, and then they take their own life, and as one person here , who had a family member suicide said, at least they died with their rights intact.   Doesnt help those left behind tho, does it .
Same for these who swallow whatever is offered to them.   its their choice and they are old enough, and have enough information out there about it, to make their own choice and heaven forbid we should take their rights to OD away from them.
These people are old enough, and cluey enough, to know the risks. 
If they choose to risk it,  too bad.  I just feel for the family left behind. 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


I see - legalise it like gambling, alcohol & tobacco - let it flourish & then tax the living daylights out of it & make it another government revenue stream. All these things are addictions. You mat be one of the fortunate ones who can control their exposure. Many cant. I'd go as far as saying the majority of the population have some addictive behaviour to at least one of these four things (some type of illegal drug the other) 




The extra government revenue is just a side benefit OneOne. It’s mainly that no one should be telling someone else what they can and can’t do with their body.



So that should then extend to every other rule in society that is aimed at protecting people from themselves?
Or do you just draw the line at drugs?
Are you a user by any chance?




Poor attempt at insult/deflection. If you bothered to read my previous posts you would have seen me say I have no interest in using drugs myself. So no I’m not.

Yes, many rules restricting freedoms in the name of protecting people from themselves should be scrapped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 12:19am
Why does everyone need to be protected by the government from themselves? This is some kind of monstrous insanity - stop people having fun to protect them? No thanks. Plenty of people can enjoy a drink, a bet, and a line without it turning into some kind of life long disaster. Their right to do these things responsibly outweighs saving every idiot who decides to total themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 1:06am
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Why does everyone need to be protected by the government from themselves? This is some kind of monstrous insanity - stop people having fun to protect them? No thanks. Plenty of people can enjoy a drink, a bet, and a line without it turning into some kind of life long disaster. Their right to do these things responsibly outweighs saving every idiot who decides to total themselves.


Yes,,,,,,if people want to wipe themselves out, let them go.    Why always hold others responsible and want the Govnt to "do something " ??    Its no ones fault but their own .   If I go out and get pissed and then get into bother, who can I blame ??   Lets see.  The bar tender ?  For serving me.  My friends ?  For not stopping me .  My OH ?  For not carrying home a drunk.  The list is endless. 
If people choose to do drugs, pop pills with unknown stuff in them,  let them go.   They know the risks. If they dont know the risks by now they must be living under a rock in a deep dark cave. 

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:48am
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Why does everyone need to be protected by the government from themselves? This is some kind of monstrous insanity - stop people having fun to protect them? No thanks. Plenty of people can enjoy a drink, a bet, and a line without it turning into some kind of life long disaster. Their right to do these things responsibly outweighs saving every idiot who decides to total themselves.
Correct  - plenty can . Unfortunately some cant. The consequences can be disastrous . Have a look at road crash & violent behavior statistics & those affected by both alcohol & illegal social drugs rate right at the top. Your probably one of those that bang on about how terrible domestic violence is on one hand lingh11 - & then advocate for legalising & making it easier for people to get smashed. I have no doubt legalising drugs will make them more used. There still are a portion of kids out there that actually respect the laws you know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:49am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

We as a community need to look at why kids are taking drugs in the first place. There is a lot of talk on here about the role parents play in this problem through lack of discipline. That may be partly correct but the real answer is that they don't spend enough time with their children. Don't encourage them in sports and after school activities.
I'm not a fan of scomo but it seems he has been looking at the success Iceland has had in dealing with the drug and alcohol problem there and has announced a new initiative here in australia. 
its a step in the right direction. 



There’s no real mystery to it, marble- kids take drugs because it’s fun and pleasurable. Not condoning it, but this is a rather simple fact that has to be acknowledged. As Renton put it in Trainspotting:

“People think it's all about misery and desperation and death and all that gelatie, which is not to be ignored. But what they forget is the pleasure of it. Otherwise we wouldn't do it.”

That of course is about hardcore junkies. But people sitting back and smoking a joint or the kid popping an ecstasy in a club are doing it for the same fundamental reason- it makes them feel good.


Yes, the concern on here from many has been the junkies.
As you said, drugs are actually fun. What we need to do is discourage that attempt at fun as much as we can.
Legalising drugs will not do that


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:57am
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Why does everyone need to be protected by the government from themselves? This is some kind of monstrous insanity - stop people having fun to protect them? No thanks. Plenty of people can enjoy a drink, a bet, and a line without it turning into some kind of life long disaster. Their right to do these things responsibly outweighs saving every idiot who decides to total themselves.
  I used to know a group of kids who thought it was "fun" knocking over women & stealing their handbags.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:03am
I think you can equate this issue with Trumps wall. The current laws prevent many kids going down that path in the first place. A wall would do the same - enough of a deterrent to stop many from trying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:03am
What someone decides to put into their own bodies and violent crime aren’t exactly the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:05am
The problem is, a great deal of the harm from drug use is because it’s illegal.

https://theconversation.com/australias-recreational-drug-policies-arent-working-so-what-are-the-options-for-reform-55493
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:08am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times
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Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

What someone decides to put into their own bodies and violent crime aren’t exactly the same thing.
  umm - are you seriously suggesting Judge that a drugged up person is not more likely to be involved in violent crime than someone who is not ? And if you agree that they are - the issue is not what their doing to their own bodies but more what damage they could do to others  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:09am
And one issue that hasn’t been brought up- the amount of police and court time tied up in a futile battle (I’d actually say lost, but people refuse to admit it). There were over a million cannabis users in Australia last year. Do we really going after these people is a worthwhile allocation of resources?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:11am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

What someone decides to put into their own bodies and violent crime aren’t exactly the same thing.
  umm - are you seriously suggesting Judge that a drugged up person is not more likely to be involved in violent crime than someone who is not ? And if you agree that they are - the issue is not what their doing to their own bodies but more what damage they could do to others  
   

No, you made the direct link between kids doing drugs for fun and kids committing violent crime for fun. Silly post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times
Neither of my kids went down the social drug path (30 & 28 now). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:14am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Why does everyone need to be protected by the government from themselves? This is some kind of monstrous insanity - stop people having fun to protect them? No thanks. Plenty of people can enjoy a drink, a bet, and a line without it turning into some kind of life long disaster. Their right to do these things responsibly outweighs saving every idiot who decides to total themselves.
  I used to know a group of kids who thought it was "fun" knocking over women & stealing their handbags.

Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times


Poor analogy. You’re taking behaviour that’s completely reckless and obviously endangers other people. Hard to take you seriously when you resort to this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:22am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

What someone decides to put into their own bodies and violent crime aren’t exactly the same thing.
  umm - are you seriously suggesting Judge that a drugged up person is not more likely to be involved in violent crime than someone who is not ? And if you agree that they are - the issue is not what their doing to their own bodies but more what damage they could do to others  
   

No, you made the direct link between kids doing drugs for fun and kids committing violent crime for fun. Silly post.
We have had this discussion a million times Judge. You don't even accept that alcohol & drugs is THE MAJOR link to domestic violence. No different to them being THE MAJOR link to violence outside pubs & around our communities at night. Throw in road crashes as well. So until we get that sorted we will never agree on anything to do with this topic. I agree with Shrunk - the current laws DO deter some kids from taking illegal drugs. If you banned alcohol it would do the same - deter SOME from using it (just like what happened in the prohibition in the States - consumption dropped 70% immediately). That to me means less of the above anti-social behavior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:24am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times


Poor analogy. You’re taking behaviour that’s completely reckless and obviously endangers other people. Hard to take you seriously when you resort to this.
Your kidding - right ?
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No. Drink driving plus speeding DIRECTLY endangers other people. What you ingest into your bodies doesn’t. Not hard to understand.
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Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

And one issue that hasn’t been brought up- the amount of police and court time tied up in a futile battle (I’d actually say lost, but people refuse to admit it). There were over a million cannabis users in Australia last year. Do we really going after these people is a worthwhile allocation of resources?


No we don’t, the horse has bolted on the cannabis front. It’s here to stay and massive numbers of kids are using it, sadly

You’re point re the policing costs is good but what about the other costs of having it in society. The ongoing health costs, mental welfare and social costs

Just like alcohol and cigarettes there is a cost associated with the negative side as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:27am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times


Poor analogy. You’re taking behaviour that’s completely reckless and obviously endangers other people. Hard to take you seriously when you resort to this.
Your kidding - right ?
How many reading this stuff had a father (or mother) who had a drinking (or drug) problem. I did. My Dad used to drink every night - the later it got the worse it got for everyone. Next day all good. Very common
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:29am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:


Discourage the arrempt at fun? Well, good luck with that.


Well as both one one and myself have attested laws and rules do work in discouraging dangerous activities.

Do you drive drunk, without your seat belt or fly up the road @ 200km/hr?
Rules work quite well at times


Poor analogy. You’re taking behaviour that’s completely reckless and obviously endangers other people. Hard to take you seriously when you resort to this.


No judge. I see you being selective with your cherrypicking. Hard to take that seriously as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:30am
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

And one issue that hasn’t been brought up- the amount of police and court time tied up in a futile battle (I’d actually say lost, but people refuse to admit it). There were over a million cannabis users in Australia last year. Do we really going after these people is a worthwhile allocation of resources?


No we don’t, the horse has bolted on the cannabis front. It’s here to stay and massive numbers of kids are using it, sadly

You’re point re the policing costs is good but what about the other costs of having it in society. The ongoing health costs, mental welfare and social costs

Just like alcohol and cigarettes there is a cost associated with the negative side as well.

still waiting for your flight to Coolangatta ? LOL
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Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

No. Drink driving plus speeding DIRECTLY endangers other people. What you ingest into your bodies doesn’t. Not hard to understand.
  Thats a lot of crap Judge. The statistics clearly show one leads to the other. Without the "ingestion" part the likelihood of what follows is greatly reduced. Only you could see it that way.
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Anyhow I'm off to work. You stay where you are Whale (beanbag + ipad) - ill be back on tonight
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Well if your saying alcohol is far worse than cannabis for violenc or antisocaial behaviour, you’ll get no argument from me there. About the only thing in danger around a cannabis user is a pizza.

This comes back to my point yesterday- consistency. Oneone do you think alcohol and gambling should be criminalised?
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Oh - & turn your second hand evaporative cooler on - its going to be hot. (you have paid the electricity bill i hope ?)
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when someone equates pleasure from drug taking to some thugs having fun stealing women's handbags, you just can't reason with illogical people Confused
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