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Monkey Matters

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    Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 4:45am
Hi all. Not my forum but I am interested in the racial allegations calling Symonds "Monkey". I don't understand how this is abusive of his race? He does look a bit like a monkey with his zinc etc and lovely hair. If you call gillie "elephant" is that racial?...no....So...are animal names not aloowed or something or am I missing something?
I've finished by cricket career but we always slung a bit of muck around and all teams tried to find an edge, particularly at sub-district level, but I never saw anyone take it personally at game end.
I probably wont contribute much more but would be interested in how and what is a "racial " slur?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 4:51am
Taj/Ace....Your joking aint you? Go down the road and find a black fellow and call him a monkey or a ape and see what he does to you.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 5:19am
I'm all for sledging in a game to a point...and thats a racial point.

many years ago we played the undefeated top team in a cricket semi. we bagged severely (but never racially) and they refused to shake our hands and the ump wanted to report us but didnt cause he said it was the whole team. we won. moral of the story is ?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 6:17am
you won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote early4lunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 9:45am
In English soccer the monkey noises from the crowd are a form of racist abuse for dark skinned players.From there the monkey thing has spread in sport.Another fine English exportDisapprove.You can extrapolate its meaning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puntingpatto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 10:01am
The fact is that Symonds takes being called a 'monkey' as being a racial slur. The Indians obviously know this, so calling him a 'monkey' is racist because they know thats how he takes it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote questions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 10:11am
i can see your point sammy but the point is at the beggining of the test series the indians were made aware of the fact it was a racial slur and agreed between the captains to not use the word. singh used it specifically for that reason. in full knowledge.

i feel more for the sydney fc player who was suspended earlier this year for using the word monkey to have a go at a opposition player. to me he did not seem to use it as a form of racial  abuse, more like if some one is over weight you might call them a elephant etc etc. he seemed genuine though you dont know the mind set a t the time. with harbijan you knew why he was saying it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Spence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by early4lunch early4lunch wrote:

In English soccer the monkey noises from the crowd are a form of racist abuse for dark skinned players.From there the monkey thing has spread in sport.Another fine English exportDisapprove.You can extrapolate its meaning.
 
In the 70'and 80's when blacks were a novelty in English football they used to have banana's thrown at them aswell as having to endure chimp noises. This sort of behavior still happens in Italy I believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bagman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 5:15pm
It has OBVIOUS racial overtones. Ace Tip you are a dead set loss fancy even asking that.
What next, we start to ask why black jungle bunny is racist??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KangaMick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 7:55pm
I saw a pic of Symonds girlfriend in the paper today. NICE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KangaMick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 7:57pm
Also check out Warrens cartoon in todays telegraph, I think that is racist too.
 
It shows 2 monkeys in a tree, and one has zinc on his lips, and his mate is saying to him.. "Take that zinc off, cause you look nothing like Symonds" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by Kong Kong wrote:


many years ago we played the undefeated top team in a cricket semi. we bagged severely (but never racially) and they refused to shake our hands and the ump wanted to report us but didnt cause he said it was the whole team. we won. moral of the story is ?
 
The moral of the story is that a team of better sledges beat a team of superior cricketers..
 
Does that matter? I guess not in the last decade or so (maybe apart from when your away from the high-fiving team mates and your alone with your own recollections)..
 
That's one thing we've got our current rampantly arrogant and totally classless cricket team to thank for, blurring the lines between what's acceptable behaviour with their win at all costs attitude and also rendering dignity, modesty and fairness in performance as surplus to requirements..
 
Who said it's only the young kiddies that follow the lead of their idols? Is that how we should encourage our son's to play?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bentley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 10:25pm
Anyone seen clerks 2 funny movie the bloke gets in sh*t for calling an african-american a porch monkey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Skipper Skipper wrote:

 
That's one thing we've got our current rampantly arrogant and totally classless cricket team to thank for, blurring the lines between what's acceptable behaviour with their win at all costs attitude and also rendering dignity, modesty and fairness in performance as surplus to requirements..
 


this isnt a new phenomenon. our team has been at it for a decade or two along with just about every team in test cricket. australia get singled out cause they have dominated all cricket for 15 years.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Kong Kong wrote:

 this isnt a new phenomenon.
 
Yeah, I know that mate but boasting of trash-talking yourself to a victory unfortunately is..Just mentioning that this is one thing we've got our First XI to thank for and maybe drawing the conclusion that people in glass houses.......
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bagman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 11:45pm
Hang on a mo. The rest of the world sledges too don't they. Sure we are acknowledged as sledgings founding fathers and masters of such, but arent the Indians on record as saying Australia dont like it when you get up and in their faces, or similar?
Didnt a certain Indian fast bowler carry on like a pork chop? What was the Indian media and board of controls verdict? The Aussies dont like some of their own back, no discipline just rhetoric.
Shouldnt we at least be putting the pieces of this puzzle together by now?
India came here with an in your face attitude that they BELIEVE would/will unsettle us. You cant go running around proclaiming your new found bravado and 'tude if you go using racist taunts.
This has nothing to do with sledging and all to do with an attitude they brought with them from the sub continent. Arrogance,petulance and belief they could match it with the Aussies in the sledging stakes.
But allow me to say again THE AUS CRICKET TEAM IS GUILTY OF NOTHING in this matter. Forget your what happens on the field stays on it garbage. Forget has beens who say Australia are bad sports or bad people , and concentrate on the facts......India and the rest of the world have a belief that if you get under our skins you can beat us. FFS doesnt anyone remember our last tour and how bad THEY were?
Unbelievable, one side has bowlers rolling on the ground when they get a wicket and all I hear are people who hate the way we celebrated a SERIES win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 11:47pm
I understand the sentiment that they give so they should take it and I think they have over the years. Look what happened in India recently with the looney fast bowler who conveniently isnt on tour. No one said anything. They didnt even complain when the monkey stuff started. It came from the team officials and the media.

I am not condoning their behaviour. they are boorish and sometimes loutish but who's fault is that? Ponting or Cricket Australia. Ponting isnt Steve Waugh or Mark Taylor or Allan Border. He is more like one of the boys and doubt he would / could control them when he struggles to control himself.

But they also arent on their own.

How many teams start a series by saying....

were going to take it up to the aussies. we wont take a backward step....

the Poms, South Africa, NZ  and India do it. Only they cant beat Australia so they sulk.

By all means someone get Ponting and co to pull their heads in but that is a completely different issue to what Singh has done.

No one can justify what he did.


P.S. Peter Roebuck is a complete d1ckhead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 11:49pm
geez Baggie took me 2 minutes longer to write mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bagman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2008 at 12:12am
Great minds REALLY do think alike.........how the hell the two of us managed to pen those then will confuse scientists, mystics and tea leaf readers for decades. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tajrossi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2008 at 7:19am
I guess it is a matter of perspective and experience. We have close links to the Yorta Yorta Nation and family ties with our aboriginal cousins. The term 'monkey' has no racial overtones for our families or community that we are aware of but can understand that if Simmo feels sensitive racially to this taunt and it has been raised and discussed as such with the Indian team, then it must be treated as such by the ICB.
The Australians, especially Hados, Punter and Simmo, handled themselves with dignity and respect in protest and there was no doubt in what was said to Simmo, so I hope it doesn't become a "you said V I said" scenario now with threats of tour abandonment which would be a gutless Indian response, but then somewhat typical of their political approach to sport in general. Moral highground but little moral practical substance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 3:41am
he said it. they all wouldn't have rushed in if he didn't say it.
 
tendulker has lost all respect for his text message to the bcci and his lieing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 4:52am
I reckon Tendulkar didnt hear it cause he was 11 yards away. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chef_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 4:58am
Originally posted by Kong Kong wrote:

I understand the sentiment that they give so they should take it and I think they have over the years. Look what happened in India recently with the looney fast bowler who conveniently isnt on tour. No one said anything. They didnt even complain when the monkey stuff started. It came from the team officials and the media.

I am not condoning their behaviour. they are boorish and sometimes loutish but who's fault is that? Ponting or Cricket Australia. Ponting isnt Steve Waugh or Mark Taylor or Allan Border. He is more like one of the boys and doubt he would / could control them when he struggles to control himself.

But they also arent on their own.

How many teams start a series by saying....

were going to take it up to the aussies. we wont take a backward step....

the Poms, South Africa, NZ  and India do it. Only they cant beat Australia so they sulk.

By all means someone get Ponting and co to pull their heads in but that is a completely different issue to what Singh has done.

No one can justify what he did.


P.S. Peter Roebuck is a complete d1ckhead.
 
 
AGREED
 
He's so far left he's falling off the planet... What was he saying that Singh has warrior heritage thereby excusing himself from disciplinary actions?
 
Simple fact is - Peter Roebuck hates Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wizzbong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 6:36am
If the ICC bow to the demands of the Indians then cricket as we know and respect it is all but over!!!
UUMMM i dont know!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 6:53am
correct wizzbong.

this isnt about Singh reputation. This is a power play.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote go zo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 9:05am
there is a facebook page about the indians and sing. check it out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote questions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2008 at 9:30pm
go to baggygreen.com.au

i dont know who owns the site but got footage of harbijan getting bowled and then refusing to walk. i dont generally go for tit for tat arguments but this is funny to watch. also got pieterson clearrly being dropped by the indian keeper and the whole team claiming the catch, even pieterson walking off before they go to the third umpire and he is given not out.
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