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Merchant Navy

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Carioca View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 1:21pm
What is the basis for the question djebel?...just curious, certainly not more kudos, most of the one's AO'B have been sent have all proved to be more than capable of matching it with the poms apart from a suspect "boat race" with a little bay horse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 3:21pm
Super considering the weight/age disadvantage. If he'd had even half the allowance he'd have won by 2. Think Macca stuck fast from memory.Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Super considering the weight/age disadvantage. If he'd had even half the allowance he'd have won by 2. Think Macca stuck fast from memory.Clap


Which WFA allowance are you talking about ?

We established a page or two back he gets no allowance.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 9:43pm
Read it again Djebel.  As a SH 3yo he should be entitled to less weight than a NH 4yo, however that's not the case as evidenced by O'Brien's post-race comments, ie 

"O’Brien said Merchant Navy, winner of the Coolmore Stakes at Flemington last spring, could run in the July Cup before he returned to Australia for stud duties at Coolmore.  He was travelling very well and we knew looking at him that Ryan was very happy on him, he said.  I think Ryan was hoping not to get there (the front) too early on him and then he got a little bit of a bump and Ryan said it took him a bit of time to re-balance. 

We thought it was an impossible task for him here as he was 12lb (5kg) worse off than he would have been in Australia.  He’s being treated as a four-year-old here and he’s really a three-year-old. I came here prepared that he couldn’t win, reading what everyone was saying.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 9:58pm
Not necessarily weighing in (get it) to the impost for MN, but anything O’Brien has to say about a prospective stallion for “the lads” at Coolmore can be taken with a tonne and a half of salt. And I’m a MN fan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Super considering the weight/age disadvantage. If he'd had even half the allowance he'd have won by 2. Think Macca stuck fast from memory.Clap


Which WFA allowance are you talking about ?

We established a page or two back he gets no allowance.

That a royal "we" djebel? I gave you an example previously - 7lbs at ths time of year based on official horse birthdays, not on his actual birth date (he's only 3.6 yrs of age).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 11:31pm
Check the number of owners and syndicates involved. Just as well it won a good race
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by adolphus twirk adolphus twirk wrote:

Check the number of owners and syndicates involved. Just as well it won a good race

It's a dual hemisphere Group 1 winning son of Fastnet Rock, I think they'll be alright
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 11:55pm
Chris Roots

Coolmore Stud Stakes winner Merchant Navy will stand next to his father, super sire Fastnet Rock, at Jerrys Plains after being sold to global breeding powerhouse Coolmore for more than $30 million.

It is the first son of Fastnet Rock that Coolmore has decided to buy following his racecourse performances, and he is seen as having all the attributes of his famous father. He will race on under the management of Coolmore, but the prized colt has been leased back to his original owners for the remainder of his career on the track and will target the Melbourne autumn sprints and Royal Ascot next year.

Segenhoe Stud's Peter O'Brien, who took a share in the colt after he made $350,000 at the Easter sales, said he was living a dream with the colt that he foaled.

"He is a horse of a lifetime," O'Brien said. "He was always special and he has it all, being a group 1 winner now. We look forward to next year and his years to come at Coolmore. It's wonderful he will get the chance to stand next to his father and continue the family tradition

"I have kept a small share and it is an honour for me to stay in a horse with John Magnier because he has done so much for me personally and in my career."

Merchant Navy comes from a powerful sprinting line, being out of Snippets mare Legally Bay and has won five of his six starts. He had excuses when checked early in his only defeat in the Golden Rose and was somewhat underestimated before his Coolmore Stud Stakes victory.

The powerful built son of Fastnet Rock possesses an explosive turn of foot and used it to come from a seemingly impossible position to take the Coolmore Stud Stakes during the Flemington carnival.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:57am
Coolmore Stallion book arrived here ages ago, LONG before all this Ascot stuff, and on the front cover was Merchant Navy.  
Not to say, when at Coolmore 2 weeks ago, the massive tip was MN.    Tom talking to Aiden blah blah blah,,
So loaded up.   Thumbs Up   Happy happy happy Smile
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 1:17am
3yos on the 12th of May in Australia carried 57 kgs against their elders who carried 59.

Champagne Cuddles on Saturday carried 1.5 kgs less than her elders at WFA.

At worst Merchant Navy was 3lbs wrong on Saturday night.

Considering 12th May was about 6 weeks ago I contest the best he should have received from his elders was 0.5 kgs.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 1:36am
The European scale allows 3yos 7 pounds, but they don't recognise his 3yo status. They apparently still haven't discovered (recognised) that the southern hemisphere breeds thoroughbreds. 

If they adopted our scale then yes 1.5kgs or roughly a length based on the official birthday 1 Aug but as we know he was still in gestation for 3 and a half months more which makes his win even more meritorious. Much like So You Think winning the Cox Plate while still 2yo.

CC carried 4 kgs less than older horses, you're comparing her to mares.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 1:40am
It does not matter what I compare her with it was WFA.

Quite simply people are trying to make it a better performance than it was.

I stand by the fact he was 0.5 at best out of the scale.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 11:29am
Surprise surprise. Are you ever happy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 11:53am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It does not matter what I compare her with it was WFA.

Quite simply people are trying to make it a better performance than it was.

I stand by the fact he was 0.5 at best out of the scale.



What was the difference between what RW and MN carried at ascot and what they would have carried in a wfa race here run last saturday?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:03pm
Possibly running the July Cup before returning here for stud duties
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:16pm
Perfect imo, he will relish the uphill climb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It does not matter what I compare her with it was WFA.

Quite simply people are trying to make it a better performance than it was.

I stand by the fact he was 0.5 at best out of the scale.


Well it does when you use wrong numbers to try and make a point djebel. 

Are you seriously suggesting that age and maturity doesn't count in performance?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 4:43pm
RW is all of 8Y/O now .     MN is the one with the future.
Lost momentum at a vital stage on Saturday so the win was better than the narrow margin.
The outside was the place to be and that was against RW too .
There was quite a few ordinary horses in that race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 5:02pm
Shocking blunder at the start , Harry should been declared a non runner , amateur hour at its finest imo. ( and fwiw the best horse won irrespective).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It does not matter what I compare her with it was WFA.

Quite simply people are trying to make it a better performance than it was.

I stand by the fact he was 0.5 at best out of the scale.



Well it does when you use wrong numbers to try and make a point djebel. 

Are you seriously suggesting that age and maturity doesn't count in performance?  
what would they have carried under WFA, had it been at Brisbane on the weekend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It does not matter what I compare her with it was WFA.

Quite simply people are trying to make it a better performance than it was.

I stand by the fact he was 0.5 at best out of the scale.



Well it does when you use wrong numbers to try and make a point djebel. 

Are you seriously suggesting that age and maturity doesn't count in performance?  
what would they have carried under WFA, had it been at Brisbane on the weekend?


RW 57.5------   MN 56.5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 6:53pm
AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL
1000m-1200m                     
2yo           44.0 45.0 46.0 47.0 48.0 49.0 50.0
3yo 50.5 51.0 52.0 52.5 53.5 54.0 54.5 55.0 55.5 56.0 56.5 57.0
4yo 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5
5yo 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5 57.5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 9:07pm
So Dejebel's pretty close to the mark.  MN was only a kilo badly off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 9:35pm
^^^^ I think the difference in weights they carried in the Newmarket has confused many,as to what the WFA conditions are here,at this time of year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

^^^^ I think the difference in weights they carried in the Newmarket has confused many,as to what the WFA conditions are here,at this time of year.


The Newmarket was a Handicap, 5.5 K difference.    It was very much in favour of RW on that.          Time changes things , The 3 Y/o's improve ,   He's getting older and made the trip more recent.     He was well in at the weights and was entitled to race better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 11:41am
So he met RW and the other horses 1.5kg worse off than wfa when the Poms artificially made him a 4yo. Why do they do that? Do we do it to them? Since the wfa scale is based on age, and a horse is the same age everywhere, why do the poms distort the scale as they do?Geek

Where is all this 5.5kg coming from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 11:52am
I tried that arguement about a horse,s age once, Tiaz, and got nowhere.  LOL
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

So he met RW and the other horses 1.5kg worse off than wfa when the Poms artificially made him a 4yo. Why do they do that? Do we do it to them? Since the wfa scale is based on age, and a horse is the same age everywhere, why do the poms distort the scale as they do?Geek

Where is all this 5.5kg coming from?


Same as when NH horses come here in the Spring. We classify their 3yos as 4yos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 12:49pm
Adelaide ran in the Cox Plate as a NH 3yo, he was a 4yo by SH time, Criterion ran in the race as a SH 4yo, Adelaide carried 1.5kg less then Criterion. Given the distance and time of year differences, should Merchant Navy have recieved less then his NH 4yo counterparts as Adelaide did relative to his SH counterparts? Still both won so neither were disadvantaged.
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