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Mel. Cup - So You Think.

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James0330 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:32pm
Especially when being raced over 1400m - 200m without a 2400m run under the belt.
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James0330 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:33pm
2000m*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:45pm
56k is hardly a heartbreaking weight. The weight range is only going o be 57 - 52k. He's not badly in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

what weight would he get for the melbourne cup in 2011?
 
I think 61
For WHAT??....hasn't won beyond 2000 range .....was run over by a cat in Americana.
Had enough over the final stages yesterday .....
Do you think they will let him sit 2 nd to the 800 in the cup at 13 to the furlong .......He did beat Zipping.....Alcopop ....  at his last 2 wins ......
 An English pacemaker might change things a bit and hope mother England gets one up.
For being a Champion!!! that's WHAT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:49pm
True Fine but when you consider he has never been past 2000m and he has only had 10 starts its more like 54 for other more seasoned horses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by DiamondsAtDusk DiamondsAtDusk wrote:

At the end of the day his stud career is already assured, i think it would be fitting to atleast have a crack at the race, imagine the euphoria if he won? it would be something else
FRIG I Reckon his Stud fee for a first season sire would allready be around the $60k - 70k Mark!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:33pm
Thats a bit rich Magic, his sire hasn't established himself as a sire of sires and his dam side is pretty weak... im sure he might stand for 50 - 60k but doesn't deserve it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:34pm
Love it ...Someone said he turned it on from the 350 ffs ...lololLOLLOLLOLLOL
 He has to turn it on for 3200 on the Tues of next week........He has been beaten pointlessly on numerous occasions and i have been his greatest admirer re his sensational ability to produce  these sizzling shortbursts and blamed Boss for his defeat by Americano....BUT i saw yesterday , he did the same thing , kicked , short burst then was stopping to a walk .......
 We must not forget ...NO horse has won a Melbourne Cup 1st up past 2000 range.
Bart may be smart ....but he aint GOD 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by James0330 James0330 wrote:

Thats a bit rich Magic, his sire hasn't established himself as a sire of sires and his dam side is pretty weak... im sure he might stand for 50 - 60k but doesn't deserve it.
Mate i reckon there would only be 2 players for this horse, Darley or Coolmore & i reckon Coolmore need him DearlyWink so i dont think he'd be cheap!!!!LOL
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:47pm
Yes, i'd say Coolmore are the ones who have put forth the big offer but you look at their previous record of standing new stallion... Haradasun, Henrythenavigator, Oratorio, Dylan Thomas, Duke of Marmalade & Choisir all started for around 20k - 40k.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondsAtDusk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:48pm
maccamax he hit top gear at the 500 and they made no impression on him till the 150, if he sprints that quickly in the Melbourne Cup, for that long.. they simply won't get near him.
We Started Nothing.
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maccamax View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by DiamondsAtDusk DiamondsAtDusk wrote:

maccamax he hit top gear at the 500 and they made no impression on him till the 150, if he sprints that quickly in the Melbourne Cup, for that long.. they simply won't get near him.
.
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.You are assuming the race will be run at 13 to the furlong and then away goes SYT for a final sectional like a sprinter .....Won't happen ....Why do you think Zipping falls that bit short past 2500.......they all have a range and you should know , the more brilliance a horse posesses the less likely to Stay.
     The other contestants would already have seen he lacks the ability to keep it up for more than say 800.....All American went past him as if he was nailed to the floor.
  Another 100m yesterday and Zipping had him .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rubiton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 6:45pm
Apparently 2002 was the last time they went close to the record even two years ago was 4 seconds outside the record so its not just a pacemkaer (which can often just keep a steady moderate pace) but a go hard and fast and do in its own chances pacemaker.  I don't remember what happened in 2002 in regard to what led  (Media Puzzle) just that MP won - but looking at times he was 3.16 compared to 3.20 in 2008 and 3.23 in 2007.
 
Even tghe racing manager bloke repeated Barts words on Retro this morning that there are plenty of races to be won in Australia when asked about overseas.  Saintly nearly died and apparently at the 'last minute' ended up on the 'milk run' to get to Japan - doubt they want to chance another long trip.  Yes Catelan Opening went to HK but thats one flight of what about 8 hours and CO was not one of the stables star performers - good horse but not a spring carnival winner (and his last race was in HK anyone know what happened to him illness, injury?).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rubiton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 6:46pm
make that singapore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andynr123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 6:54pm
In 2002, they went pretty hard, Godolphin had 3 and Hatha Anna went out hard but Sandmason was pulling and took him on.

It was a good track from memory though.

I just hope they tackle the Melbourne Cup - doesn't matter if he doesn't stay, give him a go at it. That's the only way you'll know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:04pm
Yeah, I think some of those times  have to do with track condition.
 
If Coolmore were to buy into him I think they would definitely want to run him in Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BROOKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:09pm
Zipping has been ridden incorrectly in 99 percent of his races.
The best ever ride on Zipping, was the 2009 Sandown Classic.
Took off around them at the 900, lots of time to warm into a faster stride.
The 2010 Cox Plate, was the most boring Cox Plate ever. It rated up there with Maldivian who was whistling Dixe the whole way around.
What the heck was the 2010 Cox Plate? It was like watching Groundhog Day.
Zipping cant quite match strides at the 500, he doesnt have that sprint in the first 50 metres when they go into 5th gear. But after 100 metres in 5th gear, he keeps going in 5th gear.
They leave it way way too late with him.
MUST go earlier on him. Give him more time and space to get into 5th gear, because once he is in that gear, he is the best around.
In the Melbourne Cup, please please go earlier on him. Give him lots of time to get into his top stride. I cant believe in this Cox Plate they made exactly the same error as last year, with exactly the same result.
It was Groundhog day.
I dont care if anyone agrees with this, but Zipping will beat SYT in a Melbourne Cup, but for crying out loud, learn from his runs. he doesnt have that turn of foot for 50 metres. but once in his stride, the boy keeps going and going and actually goes very quick once in that stride. Go earlier on him. Geez. feel like contacting Lloyd Williams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:19pm
VPI, That would mean he would be sold before he is retired... Bart & Dato won't be doing that... they will just have to wait until he is retired.

I don't think they should be too worried about seeing him run in Europe as his Sire line is made up of champion European sires and performers, then his dam side is NZ with Nijinsky there too and as a racehorse he is best performed in AUS so he pretty much draws from all parts of the world so is likely to be successful somewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andynr123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:23pm
To me, the pivotal moment when I realised how great it would be to have So You Think in the Melbourne Cup came yesterday at Moonee Valley.

I talked to numerous people - two English guys who now live in Sydney and run a website, Great Racehorses.

Another British journalist who was at his first Cox Plate.

They all talked about the romance of the turf, and how romantic it would be to see So You Think, our best WFA horse in a Melbourne Cup.

I have to say, I agree. It would be something else.

A lightly raced dual Cox Plate and four time G1 winner, who is trained by Bart Cummings, with a staying pedigree and stunning looks, taking on the best stayers that Australia and the world has to offer.

It would be INCREDIBLE for racing. Absolutely amazing.

We, as racing followers week in, week out, probably don't realise what the presence of So You Think in a Melbourne Cup would do to the ordinary person who only tunes in on Cup Day.

It may be the only horse in the field they know, as well as Shocking.

I know how much some in racing are against those people who only come in at Melbourne Cup time, but growing up, I was one of them.

I only became really involved in racing when I was 16 - I'm now 20, so it was 2006. It was gradual - before 2002, I always watched the Cup, and I remember watching Sunline's Cox Plate. From 2002 onwards, I watched most of the big races in the spring. 2005 I started to learn more, and 2006 was when I knew I had found something special.

It was thanks to the Melbourne Cup that I gained an appreciation for racing.

Without the Melbourne Cup, I probably wouldn't have had the insight and the opportunity to get into racing.

It is horses like So You Think that will bring new people to racing. Surely that's a good thing?

To be honest, the hype leading up to the Melbourne Cup will be worth it.

I don't care if he runs the trip or not, I'd love to see him win but just his presence would be great.

I am passionate about racing, it has become my life.

I really hope that So You Think runs, the interest it would create in our sport would be enormous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by James0330 James0330 wrote:

VPI, That would mean he would be sold before he is retired... Bart & Dato won't be doing that... they will just have to wait until he is retired.

I don't think they should be too worried about seeing him run in Europe as his Sire line is made up of champion European sires and performers, then his dam side is NZ with Nijinsky there too and as a racehorse he is best performed in AUS so he pretty much draws from all parts of the world so is likely to be successful somewhere.
Could be. I was just looking at your previous list and the 2 Aussies, Choisir and in particular Haradasun (also SSB) raced over there, the latter after being sold. Would certainly increase his Northern Hemisphere fee anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:41pm
He'll run the trip Andy!

The knockers who keep knocking him will be knocked off their feet Tuesday week ......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mowie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:49pm

cleaned up on syt this week Big smile 

but in no way will i back him again this prep..didn't like how zipping an co were catching him the last 50m,looked like a horse at the end of a prep ...
but with him in the cup i'll get great odds about other horses so hope he does line up Thumbs Up
 
chris Armstrong waller, *drugs are bad mkay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote homerj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:50pm
He might well run and win the Cup. But if he was mine, he'd maybe run in the Mackinnon and be in the paddock on Sunday. 3 Cox Plates is bloody hard to do and the Cup could, potentially, stuff him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by VPI VPI wrote:

Originally posted by James0330 James0330 wrote:

VPI, That would mean he would be sold before he is retired... Bart & Dato won't be doing that... they will just have to wait until he is retired.

I don't think they should be too worried about seeing him run in Europe as his Sire line is made up of champion European sires and performers, then his dam side is NZ with Nijinsky there too and as a racehorse he is best performed in AUS so he pretty much draws from all parts of the world so is likely to be successful somewhere.
Could be. I was just looking at your previous list and the 2 Aussies, Choisir and in particular Haradasun (also SSB) raced over there, the latter after being sold. Would certainly increase his Northern Hemisphere fee anyway.
He will run in Europe wether Coolmore buy him or not,This horse is world material & after the melbourne cup i can't see him hanging around in australia.
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondsAtDusk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:53pm
I don't understand why people expected him to be running through the line on Saturday? He made a long, sustained, brilliant, run against Australia's best WFA horses, he was more than entitled to knock up the last hundred metres. 
We Started Nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 8:00pm
I reckon he's the perfect horse to win the Duty Free.

How much better than Niconero is he?? Tongue

To be honest I'm more interested in him running overseas than anything else now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by magic_idol magic_idol wrote:

Originally posted by VPI VPI wrote:

Originally posted by James0330 James0330 wrote:

VPI, That would mean he would be sold before he is retired... Bart & Dato won't be doing that... they will just have to wait until he is retired.

I don't think they should be too worried about seeing him run in Europe as his Sire line is made up of champion European sires and performers, then his dam side is NZ with Nijinsky there too and as a racehorse he is best performed in AUS so he pretty much draws from all parts of the world so is likely to be successful somewhere.
Could be. I was just looking at your previous list and the 2 Aussies, Choisir and in particular Haradasun (also SSB) raced over there, the latter after being sold. Would certainly increase his Northern Hemisphere fee anyway.
He will run in Europe wether Coolmore buy him or not,This horse is world material & after the melbourne cup i can't see him hanging around in australia.


Unless they sell him he wont be going to Europe Magic, Bart has always said the prizemoney in AUS is to much of an incentive compared to the poor prizemoney elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rubiton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 8:06pm
But why?  Why do he 'have' to go overseas?
 
Perhaps Dato & Bart enjoy racing and winning in Australia and lets face it how often do we get to be able to go to a racetrack and see Aust champs race.  Its a lot better than watching through a TV at 1am.
 
Why would they sell to Coolmore - we arent talking your average owners here who seriously need to consider a 20 mil offer for a horse - we are talking two blokes who enjoy their own horses racing in their own 'backyard' as such and somehow dont think they are hard pushed for cash.  Fantastic that one of our wfa champs is lining up in a Cup again and the fact that even their racing manager repeated barts words about plenty to race for locally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by rubiton rubiton wrote:

make that singapore
.
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Course records and fast times in Australia have been greatly affected by the demands of imports particularly toward DEAD track minimums.....
 Even the threats to scratch the Diva 3 rd time took away all credability when the NZ horse Xcellent was denied his chance [ he couldn't handle wet] so wuz robbed .
       But don't confuse SYT and 3200 with times ......he is most unlikely to start ...he is most unlikely to win and should he go to the barrier his arz will be in grave pain when he looks down that long Flemington straight and sees how far he has to go .   Especially with about 10 horses of the quality he has never met about to give him a cold at thier preferred range.
   His sprints on dog track are a different ball game .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 8:24pm

Can't become world champion if he never takes on the world.

If the owners are happy with that whatever.
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