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Matt Cumani

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Beliskner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Matt Cumani
    Posted: 07 May 2016 at 11:42pm
Training out of Ballarat, only had 8 starts so far with his first winner Friday at Bendigo, with OTR giving him two horses, a new import [Our Covenanat] and a former one [Lunayir].

I assume his related to Luca Cumani?

Interesting with him and Archie Alexander out here, i wonder if we will see any other younger guys coming over from Europe to school the local guys in how to train stayers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 12:13am
Luca ,s son.  
AND, Francesca,s brother !!LOL
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 8:36am
Not like Archie Alexander is exactly schooling the locals so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 8:48am
Maybe i'm giving them a little credit in advance, but given how most of our trainers can't develop stayers, these two don't have to do a whole lot to surpass most locals, and also it's not like their getting premium yearlings or imports.

OTR could change that very quickly, however.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 9:34am
We don't have the same training facilities to develop stayers on the track as Europe does!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 9:59am
We do, which is why Cumani is training at Ballarat with its mile (?) uphill run
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 11:59am
That's one track out of how many crappy ones? Owners also want quick returns and the programming is not suited to progressing stayers through the grades - saying a couple of European silver spoon kids are going to show locals how it's done is insulting!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 12:03pm
Bart didn't do a bad job on Oz training tracks nor does Waller seem to be struggling too much Wink 
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:


We don't have the same training facilities to develop stayers on the track as Europe does!
    WE DID, and we Have , The breeders changed landscape ,check out Millers Guide ,Have look at those beautifully bred stayers from OZ and NZ in the fifties and sixties, and as for OZ not being able to train stayers,you don't know much of racing history
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marscay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Owners also want quick returns and the programming is not suited to progressing stayers through the grades


This is the problem right here, it's not with our trainers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Beliskner Beliskner wrote:

Maybe i'm giving them a little credit in advance, but given how most of our trainers can't develop stayers, these two don't have to do a whole lot to surpass most locals, and also it's not like their getting premium yearlings or imports.

OTR could change that very quickly, however.

Archie Alexander has had OTI horses since he started here, done nothing with them. I'd say he's getting pretty nice horses considering he hasn't done anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 1:24pm
Archie won a listed race early days I think. Sandown Cup maybe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 1:30pm
Reportedly hard on them in training.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:


We don't have the same training facilities to develop stayers on the track as Europe does!
    WE DID, and we Have , The breeders changed landscape ,check out Millers Guide ,Have look at those beautifully bred stayers from OZ and NZ in the fifties and sixties, and as for OZ not being able to train stayers,you don't know much of racing history
 
Without a shadow of a doubt you're correct there as well, it's all slipper slipper will go early charade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 2:21pm
Appreciate your response Linghi,yes and they all want it yesterday the days of a trainer saying to an old cocky ,   "Bought you a nice Colt mate ,may need a bit of time"   Cocky "yeah, send him up , I'll get him broken in and nut him and give him 6months up here" .no mention of training fees because the pressure was not there ,the romance is drifting out of racing lack of foresight and patience    Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 2:25pm
The breeders breed for the sale ring (don't agree with the practice but they are in the business to make money) and as the buyers want fast maturing types that is what you get.  Otherwise Australian breeders would all go broke and we'd import everything from overseas.  

That would be a bad error as we do breed good horses.  Speed isn't bad - every horse be it sprinter or stayer need that.  There are still plenty of studs standing staying breed horses or Derby winners or Cup winners.  But are they selling - not really.  

So the vast majority of bigger studs keep mostly sprinting types maybe a miler of two and one stayer as a also ran.  Not the stayers fault, just the way the modern market is.  Get the stayers from overseas as older horses and you can run straight away (or usually the next year to get them aclimatized).  With a yearly you have to wait at least two years and probably more before you get any runs on the board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 2:26pm
That should read yearling!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 3:52pm
I don't mind speed either Furious,There is no greater admirer of Star Kingdom than me .,and I rode enough of them,but when l have a piece of steak I like to have something with it .We were importing a lot of our stallions from o/s up to 1965,and I don't know of studs going broke then .Getting stayers from o/s that's OK as long as you don't get your fingers burnt.,aka LW and others.I was only responding to this thread to defend previous posts that OZ trainers could not train stayers .I wish blokes like George Hanlon were here to knock that theory into a cocked hat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 5:03pm
Gai won a Melbourne Cup ... it's definitely not about how they are trained.
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 5:33pm
Australian racing is all about sprinting.  Sydney races often have only 1 staying race per meeting.  Melbourne might have 2 staying races per meeting.  If most of your races are sprints then of course most of your horses will be sprinters

UK & Irish racing is quite different.  They seem more into jumps racing than flat racing for starters.  They have thousands of jumps races over very long distances each season.  So of course they will have a breed more suited to longer races

I doubt it has much to do with the trainers but is more to do with the different nature of the racing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 6:12pm
I know 2yo racing isn't the best example, but i can think of only literally one 2yo race over 1600m here, it's an 1800m race in Sydney near the end of the season, where in UK they have plenty 2yo races over 1600m, and i think Japan have a 2yo black type race over 2200m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 6:34pm
Fern hill hcp Champagne stk. both at Randwick. Gibson Carmicheal Flemington. JJ Atkins Brisbane. All 1600 for 2yo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 6:37pm
I'm talking over 1600m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 6:53pm
1600 m is not a staying race....nor is anything up to 2400m....they are considered middle distance races in Europe.

Staying races start at 2800 m which is the distance of the UK St. Leger (mile and 6 furlongs)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 7:15pm
who said anything about 1600 mt being staying races .In 70 's Japan spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the best staying blood in the world and therein lie's the tale why they can run a2yo over that ,distance .As for a mile and half not being a staying distance. Well you say tomato and I say tomayto   Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 7:25pm
A 2400m race is considered a staying event in every major racing country in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 7:54pm
thanks for the backup Second Chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Australian racing is all about sprinting.  Sydney races often have only 1 staying race per meeting.  Melbourne might have 2 staying races per meeting.  If most of your races are sprints then of course most of your horses will be sprinters

UK & Irish racing is quite different.  They seem more into jumps racing than flat racing for starters.  They have thousands of jumps races over very long distances each season.  So of course they will have a breed more suited to longer races

I doubt it has much to do with the trainers but is more to do with the different nature of the racing

I heard recently a UK commentator visiting noting how foreign the concept of syndicates was to him because in the UK it is mostly just one owner. I think the flood of syndicators in the last decade or two has meant a big market for speed horses they can get to the races a.s.a.p. I find the people who own them by themselves are more interested in the long term, taking it slow and getting results down the road.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 8:22pm
Single owners are more common then out here, they are generally pretty wealthy [obviously] but plenty of people race in groups, i know a number of UK based persons who do.

We have people like Harvey who is tied into that many horses it's ridiculous, some he owns outright but some he has 5% or 10%.

We just don't have our really rich people heavily involved, it's a little before my time, but from what i understand Packer didn't just buy up a whole bunch of horses, even though he could've brought every horse in Australia if he had wanted too.

Then you had Tinkler, who had may hundred by then time he got his stallions going, he had a ton of mares solely going to his stallions.

Give me 100 million and i'd be happy to step up and take his place, without the going broke part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sworn Revenge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2016 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

A 2400m race is considered a staying event in every major racing country in the world.


To be fair to Morston having lived in the UK for 25 years their racing community believe staying races commence at the St Leger distance and upwards
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